Dan Sabbagh, Media Editor
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Concert goers and sports fans need better protection from ticket touts, a committee of MPs will warn next week.
MPs on the Culture Select Committee are set to put pressure on websites, such as eBay, and the new breed of ticket exchanges, such as Viagogo and Seatwave, to prevent sales of fake tickets and to ensure that prices are not artificially inflated.
The value of online touting doubled to an estimated £200 million in 2007, according to Tixdaq, a research company that tries to monitor the fast-growing but lightly regulated ticket sales business.
The MPs are expected to call for “a middle way” between banning touting – there is little expectation of formal government intervention – and asking the emerging industry to police itself. Calls for the banning of touting of tickets to a select group of “crown jewel” events are likely to be rejected.
Some gigs sell out in minutes, but tickets then become available on the internet at higher prices almost immediately. Yesterday, tickets for a Radiohead concert in London in June with a face value of £42.50 were on sale on exchanges at between £66.50 and £139 - a mark-up of between 56 per cent and 227 per cent.
There are also allegations that touts are using special software to harvest large numbers of tickets online. The current tour of the teen star Hannah Montana sold out almost immediately amid such claims, although there is no clear evidence that this practice has reached the UK.
The marked-up prices and examples of fraudulent sales – sometimes tickets do not turn up – have prompted calls for tighter regulation.
“I am against the idea that a ticket is a commodity,” said Harvey Goldsmith, the veteran promoter, who wants touting to be banned because fans increasingly are being sold fake tickets online. “There were tickets for Bruce Springsteen’s O2 dates on eBay before it was decided how much they would cost, before we had even announced the concerts.”
Resale of football tickets is tightly restricted, partly for public safety reasons, and it will be illegal to resell tickets for the London Olympic Games in 2012. However, there is little support among events organisers for broadening those rules. Instead, last month Britain’s music managers asked for a slice of the resale price in any “secondary ticketing sale” in order to generate income for artists. Eric Baker, the chief executive of the privately backed Viagogo, argues that being able to resell tickets is an economic right.
“We believe tickets are property: people who have bought tickets but cannot go to an event have the right to resell. They own it, just like they own a car or a book,” Mr Baker said.
He said that unlike some sites, Viagogo operates a protection scheme so that unsatisfied consumers could get an “equivalent ticket” or a refund. The site makes money by charging a commission on sales, with the buyer paying 10 per cent of the transaction value and the seller 15 per cent. However, the sources of the tickets on online exchanges have been questioned. Marc Marot, the manager of acts such as the DJ Paul Oakenfold and a leading figure behind the resale rights scheme, said: “I’d like to know how many tickets on the websites come from the event promoters.”
Seatwave said that promoters could help by making more tickets available. It estimates that typically 40 per cent of tickets do not go on general sale and instead are reserved for VIP packages, fan clubs, friends of the performer and for the record company.
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I suspect the pressure to stop this practice has less to do with promoting fairness and more to do with wanting a slice of the action. How long before a percentage of the resale price is given to the record companies etc?
Its a shame others are not afforded the same consideration as these 'artists'. I'm sure the builders and developers who sold houses before the incredible increase in property prices would love a retrospective share in the boom.
If you own something and sell it, its no longer yours: it's no one else's business what the purchaser does with it.
Darren Howell, London, UK
only true fans should get tickets, I have on many occasions been unable to get tickets only to find hundreds on sale on ebay the same day!! I was lucky enough to get tickets for the Led Zeppelin gig recently but the security procedure meant queing for hours just to verify myself as the purchaser. fan clubs and queing hour for tickets seem to work in the 70s/80s but then we didn't pay service charges and booking fees either. seems everybody has to make money off something nowadays
perry scope, tooting, uk
Close them down. It's unfair on the genuine fans. Actually for having a ridiculous name like viagogo they should be closed down. What idiot came up with that?
Scotty, London,
(1) Well said Peter Godfrey! The police should focus on real crime and ticket sellers ought to raise their prices if people are willing to pay touts more that their tickets' face value! Is someone who sells me a share at 10 quid entitled to legal recourse when I resell it to a third party a week later for 12?!
(2) Whenever anyone buys anything on an eBay, there is a risk of it not being delivered. Why, again, turn tickets into a special case?
TomH, London,
I really dont want police time, legal time etc, spent on this nonsense. Corporate Hospitality represents the biggest "Ticket Tout" system in operation. If "clubs" sell something in short supply for less than people are prepared to pay, its their commercial problem, and they need to solve it.. but keep the courts, the police and the legislators out of it. Our country is based on getting the best price for what you have. Whats the big deal? I think clubs should auction their last 1000 tickets on ebay, but thats their business not mine and certainly i wouldnt want no law that said that genuine buyers did not have to pay market price for goods just becuase they were genuine buyers, and not middlemen.
Peter Godfrey, Skipton,
The easiest way for promoters to hide income is to sell their personal allotments to touts for cash, or to transact a supposed face-value sale with a ticket broker, which has a secret cash premium. A friend in the business once told me that this was the only way to make money.
BigJake, New Jersey, USA
Why is it that a greedy few snatch up supply of tickets and sell them on to the unlucky masses at a premium, they're known as "ticket touts", but those doing exactly the same thing with houses are called "property tycoons"?
I'm happy to tout tickets. Exploiting this system helps me to pay my landlord's mortgage. ;o)
mrak, london,
In an efficient market, touts shouldn't exist because promoters will be able to match price to demand properly. If the promoters are losing revenue because they can't do that, this is their problem, not the government's.
If the price is artificially inflated by criminal groups using botnets to snap up all the tickets using fake identities, then that is a problem for the police and is probably covered under existing fraud laws. However, I have little difficulty spotting fake profiles on social networking sites that have been placed using botnets, so it ought to be possible for promoters to develop software and techniques that can block fake ticket purchases by these groups.
Ian Kemmish, Biggleswade, UK
I think the best way to solve this problem is to operate a true reservation system like that operated by the airlines. Tickets would be printed with the name of the person whose bum was going on the seat. You'd be asked to appear at the venue at least 2 hours before with passport or other means of identification (e.g. long awaited national ID card). No one would be admitted 40 minutes before the start. Any seats available after this point would be resold by the promoter for standby hopefuls. While waiting in the hall or stadium the large screen TV would let you know the status of the artist, if they were delayed or the concert had been cancelled. While watching Derby County you'd be asked to stay seated until the game had come to a complete close, however, you would be able to buy insurance to cover the cost of your ticket should you decide not to turn up at all. On the other hand, why not make getting on a plane as easy as going to the Albert Hall?
Dean, Yeovil,
selling tickets at inflated prices is the second oldest profession in the world, do not expect it to go away any time soon. on the contrary, it seems to be becoming a more legitimate business every month
joe ockey, boston, Mass. U.S.A
You Wrote: DJ Paul Oakenfold and a leading figure behind the resale rights scheme, said: âIâd like to know how many tickets on the websites come from the event promoters.â
Lets face it.. the answers near 90%+ of them
If you were a promoter and you sold your tickets at £20
and suddenly you had the chance to gain sales at £100 giving you £80 profit you would jump at the chance. Your band is still getting its £20
Or should I say you would float a company on the chance,,or is that just Madonna's promotion conpany and ticket company that is on the stock exchange
Nicholas Iles, Oswestry, United Kingdom