Its' more the attitude of the posters that irritates me more than anything else. First we have the ' stop moaning brigade'. Well perhaps we don't moan enough. If more people found this sort of thing unacceptable then perhaps something would be done about it. Then we have the 'Its only the toilets aGatwick airport'. Well, perhaps the whole point of the article is not just about that. it's making the point that so much of Britain is just the same as thise toilets. The third point is that a number of Americans say that things over there are no better. Well, we don't have to judge our standards by the lowest common denominator.
I really can't see what Britain has to offer. Everwhere is filthy, the roads are clogged. The health service is a joke with more people dying through infection. Education standards are apalling. Crime is some of the worst in Europe, teenage pregancies ARE the worst in Europe. Drug taking is the highest in Europe. So in all, we're the best at being the worst

Paul Bernard, Portsmouth, UK

We have long complained about the rude and ignorant people across English public works. Come up to Scotland if you want to meet public service workers that are hard done by not well paid, but polite, charming and sincere. Thats the nature of your England Ms Miles.

Wasim , Edin, Scotland

Well spoken, Bill Beetham - that is, in your own terms. Seems that your love of Engerland encourages you to live in Moscow. From one dump to another ... cheers!

Vino Rosso, Oslo, Norway

Really it is interesting read this. I have a very good opinion about UK and the people in this country and of course whe you are traveling you need good services. I write from Mexico and I can tell you in premium places the loos are very clean, but in another there are very bad. When I travel by car I try to do not go to the loos in the road, but fortunately the people understand that is very important for our visitor get a good impression. Last month I visited a bus station and now the loos are differents. they are pay loos, but are very clean.
Surely many people who read you will understand and they will take care for all those very important dataills.

Luis A. Sanchez Diaz, Atizapan , Mexico

It all started going downhill in the 1980s during Thatcher's reign. Nothing mattered except money. People stopped taking pride in their work.

Tom, Sheffield,

England may rock and reel from the blatantly racist abuse poured at it by its foreign government and unelected leader, but we'll still be here when they're long gone. Yes, life is difficult, and people are unable to see the light at the end of the tunnel...... still, our country is the greatest and will continue to inspire all that is decent and good in today's rotten, merciless world.

Bill Beetham, Moscow, Russia

This article can be the catalyst for change for Britain. The Tmes must follow this up with a series of interviews, starting with BAA, the airlines, and most importantly, the politicians. They must be forced to read the comments that all the contributors have put forward under the "your say' feedback.
All those interviewed, and the commitments made by them, should then be followed up and their progress reported in the Times online. Let us take the article and use it to bring about a major shift in the attitubes of all people in Britain. A massive and continuous press coverage for months will have the support of the public. Heads will be on the line in government, airlines and BAA. It is a perfect starting point. Shall we try???

Jim Wills, Brisbane, Australia

The US is not so great either - visit an average McDonald's store and you'll be appalled by the loos there too. It's simple really. If you relentlessly promote a class-based society based not on merit but on constant deception, greed and outright criminal thuggery, the middle-class will inevitably give up breeding .That leaves only the very poorly paid and the obscenely wealthy. We've already lost the empire, now it's going to be the civilization.

Miriam, Sydney , Australia

*sight*
I do wonder what the average age of posters here is. I do wonder at what age it is that people in this country (or is it just people who read The Times?) become some miserable sods.
I am 17 years old, aparently part of the demographic that is responsible for all things wrong with this country. Ask me, or any of my friends and we'll all tell you we're proud to be British. Great things are happening in this country. Racism, sexism and homophobia, vices that permiated our society only 40 years ago, are on the brink of extinction, and not due to some 1984-Lefty-Political-Correctness, simply due to a change for the better in moral values. Kids today feel more confident in their ability to do something with their lives than ever before. Look out the informed manner in which we talk about going to universities, at the recent explosion in young tallent in the British music scene. You'd all do well to talk to strangers, start a band or help a cause and see that things aren't so bad.

Dominic, London,

People in Britain are indifferent to each other. That is what really gets to you. All else is just symptomatic of that, including dirty public toilets. When I figured this out after 9 years' living in Britain, I returned to Australia.

Paul Francis, Brisbane , Australia

I really like the UK. Sure the nation has its problems, but what country doesn't!

Jonas, Appomattox, Virginia

-Americans don't even have public toilets (and many Starbucks i've been into ain't been up to much).

-JFK's toilets in NY are equally disgusting, believe me.

-Parisian toilets are so regularly filthy I ceased to be surprised by them a long time ago. The difference is the French press would never even bother publishing an article such as this one.

-Spanish toilets are usually cleaner than anywhere else i've been.

Let's all go to Marbella then...

Rob, Paris, France

Even Ted Heath eventually thought going into Europe was a mistake in the end.

Nick Dixon, England,

I for one and getting rather fed up with this "WE" being used so liberally when referring to total selfishness, unwillingness to help anyone in trouble or answer questions, no community spirit, binge drinkins, no morals, etc etc and whatever negative you want to throw around. By the looks of things, the users of that are using it more to point at "other" people when they say "we", rather than it really meaning "we". Look, I'm not just another of the stereotypical Brits that the BBC would have everyone believe makes up this country, on the news each evening. Really, I think people are taking the news at face value these days. Believing that when there "2" (yes, "2" out of a population of millions) youngsters are knifed on a night out, then "Britain is going to the dogs". No, it's simply because the news has chosen to focus on certain things to the exclusion of all else lately and worryingly high numbers of people are believing this is Britain. It's not. Take your "we" elsewhere.

Alex, West, Britain

Why are those toilets in such disrepair? Because in the UK we're lazy and don't care about anything apart from ourselves. Don't blame the state Alice. It's time the country took a look around at themselvs and questioned our own self-rightous hypocrisy.

Sarah , Northern Ireland,

Our son, from the UK, has just spent Christmas with us in Florida...He was amazed at the politeness and friendliness of the people down here. He said "they are so caring, I can't get over it!" -
I think that when we sold the UK to the common market - that was the start of the decay, and family values have gone out of the window too; which hasn't helped.

pat, fl,usa ex-pat,

Talking about toilets- will National Express coaches sort themselves out! They're a disgrace!!! Never clean, never any loo roll, nowhere to hold onto, never any water to wash your hands or soap, sometimes no light etc!!

John Rowlands, Liverpool, England

I suppose what sums Britain up to me is that people will pass you by if you're in trouble or ignore you if you ask for help, but light-up in a non-smoking area and all hell will break loose.

MartinG, Reading, UK

If you should dribble
When you piddle
Please be
Neat, discreet
And wipe
The seat!

Sarah, Leigh, UK

GB is going down the toilet. Attitude is the root cause. We are too often apathetic, complacent, oafish, sloppy, fudging, xenophobic, take little if any self-responsibility while feeling we are vastly superior to all other countries and nationalities on the planet. Some of the posters' comments clearly exemplify aspects of that. Alice Miles is spot on in her observation -except the fact that it is 'foreign' cleaners with little pride in the UK is an unfortunate red herring in her article. More like lousy management is to blame.

Sadly, the way we are heading this country will very unfortunately beget a dictator to sort it out. Or welcome the cathartic cleansing of a war - civil or foreign. And it's no good blaming NULab - the rot had set in well before that. And, ultimately, the finger of blame should be pointed back to each and everyone of us as British/English individuals.

Two-eyed Brit., Harrogate, England

RE: Tim Nicholls, Exeter, NH
'I love the UK and if I could have the house I have, the job I have, and the standard of living I have here in the US I would move back to the UK in a heart beat.'

The point being Tim, that you cannot have the same house, job and standard of living in the UK as you currently have in the US. We have been living in the UK for the past 4 years and we are still somewhat in tourist-mode enjoying the history, architecture and using it as a base to see Europe but the most noticeable thing for us (being Aussies) is the low quality of life in day to day living. We shop, use transport, pay taxes, use the dubious (and not free) health system and the conclusion we have come to is that to live a good quality of life in the UK you need a substantial amount of money to shield yourself from the sub standard service, grime and passive acceptance. Public debate and proactive spirit is non-existent which is why it is so heartening to see an artice such as this one.

fontenoy, London,

What on earth do foreign workers have to do with it? I suspect there have been foreign workers in London almost since the city was founded.

Oonagh, Hong Kong,

Back in October this year my partner and I (she is Dutch, I am English) caught a flight in Paris to return to Australia via Dubai. The terrible state of CDG airport was astounding. We searched for an hour to find somewhere decent to get lunch in the terminal and finally decided to chance the decrepit self serve coffee bar that was the only facility open. Whilst gingerly attempting to eat our soggy chips I caught a fast movement out of the corner of my eye. It was a rat running through the legs of the other "diners". The chaos that ensued was as funny as the famous Faulty Towers rat sketch. Don't be too hard on yourselves, the frogs are still filthier than the English.

Alan White, Perth, Australia

Kevan form Nottingham the appalling state of public spaces is down to the words uttered by our first woman Prime Minister, there is no such thing as society

Tom, Edinburgh,

There are horrible loos all over Britain, but it is hardly a problem of whether the cleaning company is foreign owned or not, or indeed whether the workers are foreign or not. It is about motivation, managment and checking. If the management don't care and don't check on the work, then staff won't care either and will have no motivation.
And if no-one thinks the job is important enough to do properly, then we are faced with yucky loos and filthy streets - wherever we are.

Caroline, London, UK

At Gatwick now you need a £1 coin to use a luggage trolley. Just like Asda. What on earth for? It's miles from anywhere, who steals them? How many travellers come armed with pockets full of coins to slow their passage through security? How many travellers come with coins of any denomination? The last time I travelled from there I couldn't use a trolley as I had no change, and neither did at least half of the people who went to get a trolley, only to find they needed a coin they didn't have. Come on the bright people who run Gatwick, you are probably very clever but get some wisdom.

Bob, Brighton,

I am an old (thankifully retired) Public Servant with the medals but, " Gott sie danke" not the scars to prove it.
In many ways the UK now is a far better place than that of my youth.
However, most public places are a disgrace, yes a disgrace.
The overwhelming impression is of loutish behaviour and dare I say it "Dog sh.. chewing gum strewn pavements and grafitti
Before anything is said by some of your respondents.
I do not need any lessons in Patriotism.

Peter Bolt, Redditch, UK

Barry from Abergele, Wales. Try under 'edit' on your IE menu and you will be invited to "Find (on this page)" and search for 'Goater' and all will be revealed.

It appears he is in idyllic retirement overlooking the Lake District untroubled by vomit streaks. I am still not sure why he has to grow up though!

Andy, London,

Why does everyone continue to talk about England/UK/Britain, when it seems to be London that's the main issue.

Lindsay, Cheltenham,

If you think the toilets at Gatwick Airport are enough to blush about what about the dress code of the New Year Revellers in Cardiff. Young females have lost it; they look cheap, expose their bodies and stagger about drunk. People have celebrated New Year for years but not all have to expose this country to ridicule; have they no sense of shame. Then add the behaviour at the Manchester Footballers' party. Sorry females are suppose to be femine not harlots.

Celia, notts, uk

Actually, the United Kingdom allowed itself to lose pride in its own worth through four decades of a fairly extreme left wing brand of socialism as advocated and driven by the post war generation (ww2) when all that the UK stood for was systematically eroded.

Kevan, Nottingham, England

Your so right Alice , it is the small things that surprise us most . Congratulations on your recent award . Presumably Joey Barton will be a shoo-in for footballer of the year award come the summer ...

Benzo, Nr Chelmsford,

I have been banging on about Britain's shoddiness and shabbiness for YEARS, yet nothing changes. Well, no, in fact things are changing; they are getting WORSE! Nothing will happen until an army of mums descends upon Whitehall, grabs politicians by the scruff and leads them to a mop and bucket to get down on their hands and knees and start scrubbing. Whitehall's ivory tower is pristine in its splendid isolation from reality. Ministers are given the red carpet treatment wherever they go. No vomit-streaked washbasins for them, I expect. Britain will only change when the general public have finally had enough of sloppy, shoddy shabbiness and start protesting in large numbers.

Mike Mitchell, Spalding, England

The toilets at Gatwick should be, in a more rational world, the last thing for Britons to be ashamed of!
As important as it is physical cleanliness is NOT the most important thing in life.
If any thing, and with any residual sense of decency the UK should be most ashamed of its:
-its participation ,as a lap poodle comforting the master, in the conquest of Iraq
-its historical crime of promising a homeland in another people's country to undeserving aliens.

Omar Ibrahim Baker, Amman, Jordan.

That was an outstanding article. Absolutely outstanding.

Denny Walks, Brighton,

Well I've just spent 30 minutes of my existence on this mortal coil trawling through all 202 comments trying to find out why Peter from Hartlepool begins his contribution with the instruction, "Shaun Goater, grow up!".
What has the delightful Bermuda born Manchester City footballing legend got to do with it?
Is it rhyming slang that has hitherto failed to register with me?
Have I missed something?
I'm bursting to know!
Whilst I'm here can I contribute to the general theme of the Alice Miles inspired brouhaha by nominating the Digbeth Coach Station in Birmingham, whilst travelling by National Express, as an example of substandard and mucky environment. To be honest it is 5 years since my unwelcome experience, so things might have improved.....in which case I apologise.

Barry, Abergele, Wales

I lived in France until six months ago and was astounded at how many fellow Brits I met there, who told me they left not for work or the sun but because they thought the UK was going downhill.

The three main things I heard most:
1) "the UK is overcrowed, we're a small island and we musn't forget that"
2) "people don't talk to their neighbours so there is no community spirit"
3) (mentioned many times in these comments) "people don't anymore put their chips in the bin" or "aim for one when they're being sick after a night out!"

Martin McDonald, Aberdeen, UK

I think Heathrow and Gatwick (can I also throw in The Royal Tunbridge Wells Hospital - cos thats a grime pit) are unfair examples to judge standards in Britain. Services have gotten a lot better in recent years, and generally the UK is a great place to visit. What we need to work on is ridding ourselves of the phenomenon know as "Chavs" or the "Vicky Pollard" underclass that expect everything in return for giving nothing. For those of you not familiar with these types of people, they are generally obese, have no useful education, wear trainers (gym shoes) only, breed like Rabbits and rely on government handouts to live. Ordinarily without our immigrants, these are the people who would have been cleaning our toilets.

SR, Forest Row, East Sussex

How can one blame the cleaners?? Surely it's the people who use the facilities and leave them in a mess (e.g. not using the toilet brush or wiping the seat) that are responsible for the state of the toilets.

In 1989 I worked in Housing Benefits in Llandudno. I'd go into work at 8 a.m. and the street cleaners had done or were doing excellent work. The streets were totally clean. When I came out of the office after 5 p.m., the streets were filthy with litter.

Do you think the cleaners had put the litter there?

t, Dusseldorf, Germany

Come on guys!

Britain is a lovely place. The truth is that, for the last 10 years, Britain has been an excellent place to make money. That's why housing is so expensive and everything is overpriced. There is demand for it.
We in America have the same problems. More and more wealthy people that pay less tax and a zealous desire to cut taxes. In the end, as demand for services increases (with the population) infrastructure investment suffers. Think of the bridge that fell in Minneapolis, the Katrina response etc. The governments of Britain and the US will learn soon that they have to deliver services to the population. That's why they exist. Just give it a couple of election cycles. In the mean time, good luck and brace yourself for more stink in the bathrooms.

Michael, San Luis Obispo, CA/USA

If people spent their energy solving problems rather than complaining about them, there will be fewer problems. The ex-colonies (Aus, NZ etc) learnt this some time back.

Britain imports footballers, doctors, nurses, scientists and cleaners to such an extent that I wonder what the locals actually do (except complain). Just import this one lesson, and Britain might find itself happy and self sufficient once again.

Tim, Auckland, New Zealand

There was never any "golden age" for consumers in Britiain. We have always resented service and held in low esteem those who work in it (my mum was a waitress, so I should know). The consumer always comes last in this country.

Robert Hughes, Kings Thorn, Herefordshire

I find the animus directed against the expatriate contributors to this thread both puzzling and disturbing. I do not understand, for example, why it is either odd or reprehensible that expatriates should continue to read English newspapers, and given that there is considerable and apparently increasing emigration from this country, it is surely helpful to have some light thrown on the reasons for it. The intemperate tone of the protestors resembles nothing so much as the behaviour of the small child who shuts its eyes and covers its ears for fear of having to face up to unpalatable truths.

Geoffrey Warner, Didcot, Oxfordshire

The reason we have such poor standards of service in the UK is because everything is driven by the profit motive.

Every decision is taken by managers with a view to maximising their bonus with no regard to the long-term outcome.

Unfortunately, the self-serving middle-manager mentality has now infected our government to such an extent that there's no way back from here.

Mikey, Bromley, Kent

I recently moved to Stevenage (that's another story) and am appalled by how little pride the people here have for where they live. Rubbish is strewn everywhere, and half eaten bags of chips litter the road on a regular basis.

Residents here buy a bag of chips, eat what they wish of it, and when done, simply drop it to the road as they walk home. Classy.

I come from a supposed '3rd world' country and believe you be, we have more pride in our country than to behave this way.

Li, Stevenage, UK

Very true. I live in Spain and I'm used to taking the train. Usually the "Ave" or bird. It's spotless, roomy, cheap, civilised, and it goes at 180mph. I took the train as the better option whilst back in Scotland. The first shock was how crowded it was. Packed with people and luggage in the aisles and around the doors. My reserved seat wasn't reserved at all as there were no tickets on any seat and people were sitting anywhere. The toilet didn't flush and the air dryer didn't work. The carpets were disgustingly dirty with stains everywhere. Not only that but one family had their dog in a seat sitting at a table! Unbelievable!

Mark, Madrid, Spain

Must confess I don't care about Britain anymore - I used to - It's all down to the pathetic Ideological mantras of these mindless socialists - They've broken what it was, and no-one seems to know what it is now.

Lets hope we finish the Union soon, as I'd be more than happy to be proud of England. All these Non-European foreigners can keep the word British - It's theirs now anyway.

Home rule for England.

Andy, London, UK

Britain does at least have decent newspapers. Even online they are a hell of a lot better than anything the US or OZ can produce. Proof of the pudding. Look at how many responses there are to this article from all parts of the globe.

Aston Martin, Gretna, of mind

I'm amazed at how much everyone knows about the decline of the country form their own standpoint. I cannot reach a conclusion about the state of the country from the condition of tolilets and th attitude of shop workers, and I doubt many can genuinely do so. I recall that generally the British are not as easily disposed to dispense hospitality in restaurants and shops the way Italians, Spanish and Indians do, for example, but this is a longstanding trait, not one which Blair and Brown have nurtured in the past 10 years. The proposition that we are or are becoming a third world nation is ludicrous. I don't know third world countries intimately, but doubt they have as many expensive cars, houses and public schools as we have.

Michael Wells, Rushden,Northants, England

I travelled to Britain 2 years ago to visit a family member. You are lucky in Britain that you do have public tiolets in the major cities and towns. Here in California there is no such thing.You have to visit a shopping mall to find one. The public toilet in TGF that I used was filthy and overflowing. So the problem with dirty toilets is every where and not only in the UK.

R Mnaoa, Sacramento, USA

I love England! Not sure if my other post will come through, but I feel strongly about this - I just spent two and a half months in Europe. Ireland, England, Sweden, and the Netherlands. Dublin is a mess these days (I used to live there), Sweden (where I have also lived) which used to be spotless is now riddled with litter, graffiti, crumby trains, and expensive, unclean loos. The Netherlands has terrible customer service and the loos are nothing to speak of there, either.

England on the other hand - was great. The trains were nice, the public loos were clean (many of them free) - Lots of people whinge about the state of England but as somebody who has done a lot of world traveling, I love England best right now. I'd move to England in a heartbeat if your immigration laws allowed it. But contrary to popular belief they don't just let anybody into the country. As an educated non-EU National and native English speaker it's still extremely difficult.

Beth, Chicago,

Shaun Goater, grow up!

Quite simply, the pride we as a nation used to have for the 'little' things - such as clean streets and toilets, polite service staff and good manners - has been labed petty middle-England whining, as we have been told to concentrate on more 'important' matters.

Thus, while we spend all our time, money and energy on trying to sort out Africa, Afghanistan and the Amazon, we ignore things closer to home.

Peter, hartlepool,

Indeed so, Ms. Miles, and it has been so for a considerable time. Who does the "cleaning" these days? Quite. Where are they from? Exactly!

Archie, Thrapston, England

"NHS, because its free, yes free to all. "

Do people STILL seriously believe the NHS is free ? Amazing.

There's nothing wrong with using a cleaning contractor but BAA must still administer the contract and enforce the performance standards that (one hopes) are part of it.

Stan, USA, USA

Oh my GOD; you guys are still going on about this silly story?! Let me tell you something: The UK is a wonderful country. Stop bashing your homeland and love it instead. I used to think that most Brits were anti-American because of the way you always rail about our supposed ignorance. But now I see that Brits are much tougher on themselves than on anyone else. It's quite admirable, but cheer up. Most of your public services (at least in London) are just fine.

yankie doodle, cleveland, usa

I was surprised to be told when I complained about the state of the loos at Hilton Park's BP Service Station that they weren't allowed to use bleach because of the Health & Safety risk. I thought that they were pulling my leg, I hope they were or this country really has lost the plot.

Joyce Read, Lancaster, UK

Last time I went through Heathrow, each cubicle had a sign telling the user to clean it after use - and that a brush was available for the purpose from the attendant.

Chris, Ashford, Middlesex,

Alice Miles is correct. We've all experienced the state of public facilities in Britain, especially those which are supposed to be supplied as a public service. The fact is that Britain is now a country in which no one wants to provide anything for anyone unless they can pay. The maintenance and cleaning of public toilets is just a line on a balance sheet.
We know the cost of eveything in this country....and the value of nothing.

Tim, Basingstoke, UK

I took my family away from the UK 4 years ago, too much tax with too little value in return. The column really struck a cord with me; I travel a lot and I'm always shocked with the conditions at Heathrow and Gatwick when I return or pass through. The general dilapidation and unsanitary facilities are a disgrace and leave a very poor impression.

Ex Englishman, Boston, Mass, USA

Daphne from Seattle said, "Low pay and could care less about the white population. I work for the government in Seattle, WA, and our facilities are spotless and cleaned by foreigners."

-- Outrageous.

Joe, Ontario, Canada

This article beggars belief. The author should not have brought in foreigners and the people earning minimum wage into a debate about British hygiene and cleanliness. I moved here from The Netherlands in 1994 and have lived here since. One of the most striking thing as a Northern European settling in Britain is the general shabby and dirty look of the country. Enter any pub loo at anytime of the day (plain dirty), sit on any train (terribly shabby), visit any hospital (MRSA is the least of their problems) and it becomes obvious that the locals are not overly concerned about hygiene and cleanliness. Foreign ownership is not the reason all BAA airport loos are atrociously filthy. They have been filthy for as long as I can remember. Is it not a case of the natives not being bothered to do anything about it (ever). This article implies that when you are bothered it's best to implicate foreigners. Shameful! Most airports in the developed world (yes, in Houston too)are cleaned by immigrants

Farley, London,

Undoubtedly one of the problems this country has compared to others, whose public facilities are more obviously better, is the adversarial principle. One part of the country is usually trying to make a nonsense of the other. This tends to distill out in the form of a lowest common denominator. Sprinkle with a generous portion of lottery dust, and you have endemic under performance in some areas.

Henry Percy, London, UK

I love my country & won't be leaving but I know it has some pretty embarrassing failings. Our loos, as Ms Miles says, aren't always good & are occasionally appalling. It's no excuse but such things aren't confined to Britain. You can still find in, say, the middle of a prosperous and beautiful French town, stinking, unisex, hole-in-the-ground loos, complete wih fresh turds dotted about; such gut-wrenching experiences swiftly teach you amazing bladder and bowel control although it's hard to wait a week until you get home!

Our loos have generally improved greatly over the past 30 years from nearly all ghastly to quite good & occasionally pristine. Visiting a motoway loo is a fairly hygeinic event & local authorities and retail outlets do try to offer decent services overall. Things must be better as I haven't apologised to a foreign visitor for ages but then I haven't been to Gatwick, either. By the way, did anyone complain loudly to the management or did you all just suffer it?

anne, bournemouth,

Have to strongly disagree that U.K. airport bathrooms are any worse than many in the U.S. Try Philadelphia !!
.

Bill Atkins, Rehoboth Beach, USA

No mention of the aggressive, violent tempers? No mention of the aggressive, haughty attitude of superiority? No mention of the blatant racism around every corner London? Believe me, there are many surprising things to observe about the British besides the filthy loos.

Tammy, London, United Kingdom

I agree. England sucks.

Nick, NY,

"badly paid foreign workers who couldn't give a damn what an American tourist might think of the UK on first arrival" - is a typical enforcement of a prejudice about foreign workers. While working in the UK I had the chance to observe our cleaning staff. Forgive me this subjective comment but as far as I remember the British have always looked like cleaning is a degrading task - usually reading the papers while there were not even clean tea cups - and did little for the modest salary while the Polish and other foreign workers scrubbed every inch of the floor humbly on their knees.

Bela, Helsinki, Finland

Lack of pride probably is the issue - or perhaps it's the way companies over-mandate exactly what 'good cleaning' comprises (which means that what isn't included in the checklist, probably isn't done).

I was recently in a service station toilet - pretty filthy - ingrained black stuff around the pedestals, and dark stains inside the bowl. I'd be very ashamed if it were in my company premises.

BUT - the room it had clearly been "cleaned" at some point, there was loo roll, there was soap, it did flush and the dryer worked.

So despite the sign on the door that said 'we want you to enjoy your visit to our service station so we take pride in our facilities - if they don't meet your expectations of cleanliness, tell us'; I didn't, because it would have felt petty to say so - because someone had obviously 'done their duty' with the cleaning. If not taken pride in doing so.

But because I didn't say anything, no one knows...

JP, London, UK

At least there ARE toilets - when I flew Aeroflot to Mongolia the loos didn't work on the plane and once out of Ulaan Baator, it was a case of finding a dip in the ground! All things are relative! Having said that, for me the main problems are that Britain is now over-crowded with people who don't share our culture, and pride (in any way, shape or form) is actively discouraged. It doesn't make for a happy society.

Andy, Whitchurch,

Ah, the expats. So they happily retire abroad on the profits from the booming housing market, or live off their pension, which goes so far because of the strong pound. But the aspects of this country that create the economy from which they benefit - the fact that it is overcrowded etc, they revile. Never mind, as long as we work paying into NI, so they can get their pension. Yes, Britain is crowded and dirty and the people are stressed and depressed. But we are fortunate to have a free health service, and arts are more vibrant here than in many places - London outguns every city in the world for amount, size and range of (often free) museums and if there are public libraries in Spain or Italy, I have never seen them. Britain is also more attentive to charity than many countries - where is the Oxfam shop in the little village in France?
And, David, the workers cleaning Dubai airport are much worse than 'low paid'. They are essentially slave labour.

George , London, United Kingdom

I couldn't agree more with the comments that Alice has made. She has hit the nail on the head. I travel to the USA a lot and the standard of cleanliness of the public toilets is incredible. From the airports to a rest stop on the highway in Alabama. It is incredibly depressing coming back to the UK and the first real impression of the country are the airports and the appalling toilets not just Gatwick, but Heathrow and Manchester. They are invariably smelly and disgusting. There is a real lack of CIVIC PRIDE in this country and its down to the people who live here. Walk down any road in Britain on a Sunday morning and look at the rubbish that people have just dumped. Don't blame the government. You voted for them. Take responsibility for your own lives, your own behaviour and actions. If you want a better country stop blaming everyone else. Look after your home, your family, your neighbourhood, your schools, and show aspiration to improve. 10 years of Labour and what do we have.

Lawrence, Altrincham, cheshire

Hands up, I am an ex-pat living in the USA and have been since 1995. I have just spent xmas with family in the UK and had a great time. I am not one of these ex-pats who moan and put down the mother country as I still LOVE the UK and enjoy my time there, every 12-15 months or so I manage a visit. I still think of the UK as it was when I still lived there but I missed all of Blair's reign as PM, John Major was still in charge when I left, so clearly things have changed in ways I am not aware of. The people seem the same however, the wonderful countryside, fish and Chips (yum), and being able to go shopping outdoors rather than in a mall is fantastic. The health service and the BBC are treasures that the UK needs to keep and without them the country would be a poorer place.

The one thing I do notice is that the country is overcrowded, whether you are an expat or someone still fortunate to live it the UK this can not be disputed. The infustructure (loos aside) is in danger of not being able to cope with the demands of its users (roads for one), the cost of petrol is ridiculous, and house prices for what you get regarding the house you buy, if you are able to afford to buy that is - well where do you start on that one, a lot of things are too expensive in the UK (again I don't think there is much room for disagreement on that).

We flew on British Airways into and out of Terminal 4 at Heathrow. The flight was fine, terminal 4 - including the loos - was also fine. I love the UK and if I could have the house I have, the job I have, and the standard of living I have here in the US I would move back to the UK in a heart beat. The UK is one of the greatest places in the World. Bill Bryson sums up the countryside well for me, the UK is like one big garden while the US is a wilderness.

Tim Nicholls, Exeter, NH

I have dual nationality Canadian and British. Strange as it may seem to some I believe the U.K is the best country in the world, to visit, and I travel from Vancouver to the U.K. two or three times per year. I find the cities are generally as clean but not as new as any in Canada. The countryside is breathtakingly beautiful and rural towns and villages all have a wondrous charm so much so that I would visit more often if circumstances permitted. The U.K. as a whole is a superb art treasure which should be treated with respect by inhabitants and visitors alike.

Jeff Vancouver Canada

Geoff Skuse, Vancouver , Canada

I Needed the loo on Sunday whilst in London.
A public loo between Leicester square and Covent garden.
Well, I have to say and to my surprise it was in excellent condition. Very clean and tidy.

The simple answer is don't use airports, or Trains. Use your car. (not to pee in of course)
And stop blaming foreigners for everything.
Don't forget you expats, you are a foreigner in the country you have decided to reside in.

Carol, bucks, uk

This article is a good example of how journalists who are privileged to have the chance to have their views expressed in a newspaper of quality completely abuse this advantage. So Alice Miles had a fraught trip, was no doubt tired, and came across a squalid situation at Gatwick. But then to try and argue that this is the end of civilisation (British) as we know it is simply absurd. This is the journalism of the spoiled child and a very poor example of the quality of writing which might be expected from the apparent `Columnist of the Year`.

Phil Gabriel, Market Drayton, UK

Each to his own horrifying anecdote. I'm just two days away, and reeling, from an experience in which I tried to see a top-billed film at a new city-centre multiplex cinema. As I walked into Screen 4, the stench of bodies closely packed, with NO VENTILATION, hit me like a brick wall. The place was full; no one moved; I tried to breathe -- or survive without breathing. It smelt like a sewer. I lasted 10 minutes. Most upsetting was realising I was the ONLY one who got upset and left; oh, and realising the manager was going to think I was a nutter when I complained. What are we in for, when standards of hygiene and sanitation are gone and population increase is out of control?

J. Parsons, Cambs., U.K.

Note to Self: Next time I go to London, visit the facility on the plane before landing.

Steel Magnolia, Dallas, Texas / USA

I fell in love with Britain since I were very little for its history, its achievement. I came here at the end of 1980's, then fell in love with its beauty, its people - the most honest, decent, tolerant people in the world. I made Britain my home and adopted its values as my own. For last 7 years or so very large number of immigrates came in, who make no attempt to understand British values, and has very little respect for them. Now we could see the negative culture impact from those immigrates. I can't understand how government and people of this country stand to let go of so many of the values that once make this country so great.
Dirty toilet is only a very small indication of huge social changes in this county - for the worse.

jane, derby, uk

China used to lead the list of countries with appalling public lavatories. The government became so embarrassed by the bad foreign press, and possibly local complaints, that a campaign was mounted, at least in Peking, to do something about it. When was the last occasion on which the British government did anything successfully?

Derek, Shanghai, China

I think the problem is with BAA. A few weeks ago, as I was travelling to Germany out of Heathrow, the following happened: I was passing through security & had just got to the metal detector bit. While I was being searched, the staff, a thuggish-looking man and a woman, were conducting a loud conversation over my head. The subject of the conversation were the passengers queuing in long queues in the overcrowded and overheated hall. One of the security people said: "Makes you sick just to look at their faces" - the other agreed. Just then, the elderly lady queuing behind me was being gleefully asked to remove her cardie and shoes. I very calmly said to the guards: "Well, you have to understand that this procedure is humiliating and scary, particularly for elderly people." - My remark (I am a slight, young, educated woman) upset the guard so badly that he became threatening and proceeded to shout in a loud voice that he did not understand "at all" etc. It went on while & was quite scary.

Student, UK/Germany,

quite. When I visited my hometown airport of Newcastle recently, I was appalled by the state of the entire airport, in particular the departure lounge and restaurant area. It was the beginning of the day, and there was filth everywhere. The cleaning staff seemed to be sitting round, having their breakfast, or chatting. Food was spattered across the floor, and tables were covered in rubbish and grime. I was served some food on a sticky, grimey tray. I was so dismayed at the impression that visitors to my home town would have, that I decided to try to find who the manager for the area. I eventually found the disinterested young bloke, who gazed at his feet as I spoke to him about the shame. I was in Newcastle again at Christmas, and the airport was in exactly the same sorry state.

nicholas b, london,

I have to laugh at how often people manage to turn any columnist's writing into an opportunity for xenophobic remarks, or, in this case, expat bashing. Travel/living abroad allows us to contrast what we're used to with the new location, enabling us to see where improvements could be made (as well as where we are superior). I am an expat in the US and am under no illusions that either the UK or the US are the epitome of perfection; both have their own problems but, both could also learn from each other to resolve some of those problems. I will always love England/Britain as it's my home and has many wonderful places and incredible history. But, that does not mean we should brush issues under the carpet and bash those who dare to raise them. Years of underinvestment and silly investments have harmed the UK's infrastructure. Instead of being divisive we should all be forcing those accountable to bring our country back up to standard, where it should be.

Rebecca Jackson, New York, USA

As always there are people who will find a way to blame immigrants and "foreigners" for absolutely everything and anything that is wrong with the UK. Having travelled a fair bit in Europe, Asia and North America, my experience has been that inevitably, the loudest, most obnoxious, arrogant, rude and most drunk group that one can encounter are young to middle-aged Brits. Always behaving like a bunch of yobs and making life miserable for everyone unfortunate to be near by. Generalizations are fun aren’t they? My God stop whining for 5 minutes and do something about it.

Joe, Ontario, Canada

What I can't get over is how many older British people I meet who say that Britain has gone to the dogs and isn't what it used to be. Yet while travelling I meet loads of younger Brits who are obviously well educated, well spoken, and are enjoying life and the freedom the strength of the pound gives them.

I say to the older Brits stop your complaining, you had your chance to influence the direction of the country, and enjoy your life in Spain / Thailand / Insert country here.

Blake, Melbourne,

Well I was in Waterloo station a month ago or so, and the toilets were fine, would you just believe it. And yet rarely have I seen such a steady flow of humanity as in that station.

Speaking of airport loos, I've been in the Frankfurt ones and they were, um, pretty squalid.

Anyway, some poster said it, Britain has lost its pride, sense of community and manners. Not much left which makes it worth living in. Oh, and the prices. 16 quid for a commuter Folkstone-London? I pay 4€ for a same distance cercanillas in Spain.

Tough. Cheers though, from Paris (I'm no expat, I'm French).

Alexandre, Paris, France

Yes indeed this is something I'm glad to see someone write about. The toilets in this country are disgusting.

This tells me something about the British society. Even when toilets are cleaned they appear to become dirty in a short space of time.

Whenever I visit Germany I find their toilets to be so clean.

What is so difficult with keeping something like this clean.

It's way over due that something is done to rectify this disgusting problem.

Alex, london, England

Having visited grand central station last year, i can honestly say the women's toilets in the food concourse were vile. most of the cubicles were unusable and there was a layer of grey scummy water all over the floor. even the cleaner's "mop" bucket was encrusted in filth, she was just spreading the grimy water in her bucket across the grey goo/ectoplasm already down. for such a beautiful station, so shocking. It isn't just Gatwick....

E Broadbent, Manchester, UK

Does this airport come under the same BAA that wants go on stike over pensions!!!!

Andrew, Northwood, UK

Yes, a common experience excellently put, and probably permanent.

It is part of an emptiness driven by the modern 'me' culture. Whatever the previous British social glue was, we are now stuck with a kind of tribalism , myriad, disconnected, competing and complaining minorities, with no sense of nationality.

It will take generations to create a new spirit or unity of purpose; and the vacuum of our frontierless financial services economy, with its creators having every incentive to live somewhere else, is the worst possible environment to generate it.

Ken, Oxford, United kingdom

Alice, thank you, thank you for writing this excellent article. As a former Brit who returns two or three times annually to see my aging mother, I am constantly appalled at the deteriorating condition of British loos. But, it isn't just the airports that are the problem. I have found similar conditions in shopping malls and restaurants. I detest using a public loo in the U.K. However, it isn't just the loos that are non functional or dirty. Check out the seats in the departure lounges at Heathrow airport. There is all sorts of crud lodged in the fabric. If I wasn't so tired after a trans-atlantic flight I would prefer to stand while waiting for my connecting flight. No country is perfect, but U.K. standards have certainly dropped in recent years

Josie, San Francisco, CA, USA

I llived in London frm 1967-75 and I visited loos at various tube stops and found them very clean, and a woman offering towels, soap and I would give her a tip.

I have not been back to England since then and I read this article about toliets at Gatwich Airport. You are probably right - England pays a temp agency for immigrants to clean these facilites. Low pay and could care less about the white population.

I work for the government in Seattle, WA, and our facilities are spotless and cleaned by foreigners. The conditions at Gatwich should be reported to the agency that cleans these facilties. These type of conditions should not go on. As a first time visitor to England I would be shocked and it would leave a bad taste in my mouth if I encountered bad toilets areas.

Daphne, Seattle, WA

Coach travel in Britain is not much of a magical mystery tour either. Some professional Spanish friends of mine regularly use coaches to travel to Bilbao, Madrid or Barcelona. The current president, Rodriguez Zapatero (not one of my professional Spanish friends, I hasten to add) took the coach every day from his home town, Leon, to Madrid to parliament until he moved to the capital on becoming president. It was inexpensive, convenient, quick and clean. Does anyone remember Mrs Thatcher, as she then was known, saying that anyone over 25 who used a bus was a failure?

Chris Beach, Asturias, Spain

After my last trip abroard I prayed whilst I was in the queue for over an hour to pass through border control ... but alas they don't turn British citizens away (not sure what the point of queueing was, but the disappointment of being let back in was dreadful).

Tom, Lichfield,

I fly around Europe most weeks and almost without exception the toilets in airports are immaculate. I fly back into Manchester and they are without exception appalling. As you walk out of customs in Terminal 1 there is a toilet immediately on your right. I try and avoid it at all costs, preferring to cross my legs for 40 minutes on the drive home. It is always filthy and absolutely stinks. It is also constructed from Soviet era materials and just looks incredibly shabby. Exactly the same in Terminal 3 arrivals though at least that one is 100 yards from the entrance to our shameless country. Welcome to England!

Ross, Manchester,

It seems a LOT of people have had bad toilet experiences in the Kingdom that is supposed to be United.

Maybe Alice has had to put her finger on a problem at Gatwick and then found the ultimate whinge for the beginning of a new glorious empire in toilet wonderland.

It's just a shame a chap called "Brown" will be in the (driving) seat. If it ever happened, you'd probably find that every "movement" would be recorded, re-sold and then sent by insecure post to strangers.

Just a quick tip... if you get caught short in the Cairo Museum and you only have three Egyptian five pound notes in your wallet and no toilet paper.

Use the first to wipe up.

The second to wipe down.

And the third to polish.

Save all three, to pay the bar bill.

Now, that WAS 15 quid well spent.

Jack, Mansfield, UK

This seems a possible way to use the Health & Safety legislation sensibly rather than banning playing conkers etc in school playgrounds.
These toilets are a health hazard, which should be inspected by Environmental Health Officers, and individuals responsible under contract for their maintenance prosecuted.

J.Staunton, London,

That this article is in the Times let alone at this moment most read and most commented saddens me. It reminds me of how far this broadsheet has slipped. There are so many things of importance going on the world today and yet an article about the tempory state of one set of uk toilets makes the cut. poor show.

Douglas, London,

True, the back room can be a good indicator as to the state of a business, but in a monopoly like an airport, it doesnt directly affect their profitability.
The UK has some excellent service examples, but in some of the former state controlled businesses there could now be reasons to renationalise - purely because there is a mountain of concerns about the managements and owners running them - pride- no, corporate responsibility and competence - low, Goverment control and influence - are they in touch?
The UK is now so exposed to businesses that do not even begin to understand customer service that we are not only being ripped off but caring and pride in the UK is seriously depleted.

P Stewart, nottingham, uk

Well you have all had your say, just tell me why do you ex pats read this newspaper, if you have left, then embrace your new culture and life.
It is true we are not perfect, could raise our standards, but just stop and think, who runs Gatwick today, it is a Spanish company, no doubt milking our country and paying minimum wages. The old saying monkeys and peanuts comes to mind. I accept it is not good enough.

I love my country, would not leave it like many, who incidently, use addresses to come and use our rubbish NHS, because its free, yes free to all. We have a lovely country, and despite some things that could be improved, why not be positive for once, I get fed up of lets knock Britiain. If it is such a C... place to be why are you all coming back on visits? Surely your climate and culture in places new should be captivating. My town was voted the worst in the UK, trouble is they only picked the bad bits!

Bee, Middlesbrough, UK

To yankie doodle, cleveland, usa

A good point friend. But you see, I'm afraid that Alice suffers from what all of the British media luvvies suffer from. It's called "I hate England". She couldn't possibly write a piece like this about anywhere else in the UK or the world at large.

Big-Englander, London, England, UK

How about letting public sector workers do their job rather than spend their time re-applying for them. How about we stop making endless re-organisations and "rationalisations"?

Emma, Rochester,

Shouldn't we as the public be more responsible when we use the public toilets. The cleaners clean at certain times of the day. In between those those periods the rude natured British public,thats us, have no self respect and feel the need to relive ourself in the most inappropriate manor. To blame the low paid so called foreigners for obtaining rather unsatisfactory qualification in sanitation when none of us would ever work in these conditions.

milone porter, london,

Aah. Good old Maggie Thatcher and her "Loadsamoney , I'm alright Jack" approach to Government.

Obviously the real problem is not enough of cuts in public spending.

Why does the expression "chickens coming home to roost" come to mind?

John Gradivus, Newcastle upon Tyne, UK

I don't think things are quite as bad as the article and some of the messages on here make out, I've been in some pretty grotty toilets all over the world, the worst being in France followed closely by the US and in Belgium I once had to use an open cubical that catered for both sexes (I could'nt go, nerves got the better of me).

Where we do have a problem is, there are just too many people in the UK, we are at busting point and they are still letting more and more people in and no one has the guts to address the problem for fear of being branded 'Racist'. We get told all sorts of rubbish to support this influx but the truth is there are just cheap labour and they also have the benefit of keeping wages low. No wonder no one has any pride in our country anymore, the truth is its not ours, its been given away.

Ajer, Reading, UK

Yankee doodle of Cleveland (Ohio?) you are wrong wrong wrong, it is exactly what people remember. You chose a right example with Wembley- it SHOULD look better than the Taj Mahal - it cost more. One of your more far out posters tries to blame it all on 'Thatcher' - she tried to turn Britian into a meritocracy - nu lab have reversed all that and turned it into a (reputed) freebee place for scroungers. Why do people want to come here? Language my lad language it's the first 'other' tongue they learn to speak when they go to school - wherever they are.

Robert D, Chelmsford, Essex.,

I had a similar experience last summer returning from the US with the toilets on the trains and at the train stations. I couldn't believe how disgusting the toilets were at York station. What got to me the most was not just the attitude of those who are supposed to clean them but the seeming apathy of the British public who put up with the disgrace without doing anything about it. While travelling on the train from Newcastle to York, I found blocked toilets everywhere and the guard said that there wasn't enough water in the tank to flush for the whole destination! A lady told me that the loos were blocked as soon as she got to Edinburgh from Glasgow and the train was going to London! I wonder if anything has been done about the situation yet or are the toilets still blocked for most of the journey??

cbassett, Bethany, USA

"Wembley Stadium, on the other hand, was AMAZING!!" - yankie doodle, cleveland, usa

Thanks, but, Wembley was built by an Australian company.

Pete, Cov,

I always find the entry into a UK airport (especially Heathrow) a really, really depressing experience because of the dirt and the downbeat atmosphere.
Please remember, though, the airport authorities do not go around throwing litter everywhere and smearing excrement and vomit in the toilets. It is the users who do that. If people cleaned up after themselves properly there wouldn't be such a mess (back to personal responsibility and self-respect).

Max , London,

I used to trave a lot, worldwide. Retired recently. It is funny but the first thing you see of a country are it's toilets. It does colour your judgement of a country. It is a measure of infrastucture and standards. Sorry to say the worst I have seen recently are Gatwick with Heathrow a close second. Elsewhere round the world they are generally better.

Pugwash, Epidavros, Greece

Never seen the bogs at Gatwick because the queue is always too long. It's not just the UK though. The Newark loos are awful and that's along with being 'Guantanamoed' at immigration.

James, Monteria, Colombia

If you can measure a nation's sense of pride by its loos then superpower-in-waiting China has got some really serious issues.

Donald Smith, London, UK

Alice I 100% agree with your comments about Gatwick Airport.You lost the argument by trying to put the blame on Gordon Brown,The Airport is owned privately by BAA listed on the London Stockmarket.The blames lies with BAA and alsoThatcher and the Tory Party who privatised all the major airports to a monopoly buyer.Competition between the airports would have solved the best option.By the way toilets at CDG Paris are not much better.

Bill Rees, Truro, Cornwall

The executives at the airport probably can't understand what the fuss is all about. The airport saves money by using a cleaning contractor. The contractor gains profitable business from the cleaning contract. A group of desperate immigrants get a much needed job. So everyone is happy! Opps, nearly forgot the customer - and there lies the problem.

In the 1980s they said "The customer is King". Nowadays company directors believe they are the kings and they reward themselves accordingly.

Kevin Herbert, Greater Manchester, UK

Alice Miles' article resonates on so many levels. I'm afraid the UK lost its way on standards some time ago. Where are our managers? Don't they get paid to ensure that things work correctly. I travel extensively through my job, both within the UK and around the world, and I see other countries surpass the UK on so many levels in terms of service. I went through St Pancras a few weeks ago on my way to Paris. The terminal had only been open a couple of weeks but the concourse looked as though it hadn't been cleaned since the opening ceremony. The building itself was magnificent but you could already see that to keep this beautiful buiding in pristine condition was going to be a management challenge. Are our expectations set too high in the UK? Probably. But one thing for sure - our managers need to be taught how to manage!

Neil Bell, Guildford, UK

The fact the Britain is a terrible place to live and getting worse is hardly news to me.

I left for good 2 years ago and it's the best thing I ever did.

The reasons I left, and the things that are now better so far as the quality of my life is concerned, would dwarf Ms. Miles' article.

Jon Leigh, Southern, France

Yes - another comment from an ex-pat!

I have just returned to Canada after Christmas in Brighton and, as usual, it was a mixed experience. Positives were that Heathrow was quite OK, the coach trip to Brighton was great, the walks over the Sussex downs were superb and the beer in the pub at the end of the walks was just a treat. We also had a fantastic day in London via a super-efficient (and reasonably-priced) train. On the downside, Brighton was grubby, there's generally too much litter and the people themselves just seem to be pretty miserable.

For whatever reason, I just think that the UK is a country at the moment that is just not at ease with itself.

Personally, I just think that it's an overcrowded little island (although if you're prepared to walk further than 15 mins from your car, you can find solitude) and humans, like most animals, just get stressed when living in overcrowded conditions. Not quite sure what to do about that one though!

Nick, Montreal, Canada

We employ asylum seekers, to do menial jobs like this. Brits won't do . These foreigners are doing a good job are'nt they????.

Geoff Stringer, Southend-on-Sea Essex , ENGLAND

I still love you, Britain.

(Then again, I am from New York City where we have no damn public toilets at all -- we have to learn amazing control and/or strategically memorize Starbucks locations -- only available for use AFTER we purchase something, of course.)

Nancy, New York, NY

Britain lost pride in itself when it began to afford foreign holidays

Grumpy, Plymouth,

Just back from Bangkok myself.

Came back in to the zoo that is Heathrow T3 so I'll bet Gatwick was an area of outstanding beauty by comparison.

Still only have three months to go and then leaving this dump forever and taking my money with me.

Bye Gordon good luck, here's one Englishman who doesn't give a damn about this dump any more/

Niallster, London,

Try the loos at Cambridge station (or, rather, don't). Or at Starbucks in Waterstone's Bookshop, Cambridge. They're apparently cleaned - but you wouldn't believe it. You can just imagine what the overseas visitors to Cambridge must think.

John, London,

It's nice to see that despite moving countries, Brits never lose the national characteristic of moaning. I tried this immigration thing a few years back and moved to Perth, Australia. Astounded at the way the Brits stuck together and hardly integrated with anyone else I left after 2 years and came home. They were by and large a most odious bunch. If they weren't moaning about Australia or Australians they were bashing their mother country, it seemed that their isolation polarised their negativity, about almost everything. And reading through the comments from ex-pats on here I get the same feelings of revulsion for them as I had then.

Andy A, Glos,

I have no doubt at all that ... . I know that ... probably .... I expect ... And I have no doubt that ....

Good old columnists - never letting tedious research get in the way of voicing an opinion.

Grumpy, Plymouth,

I've quite often come home from the States, and felt an acute sense of shame when setting foot in the airport toilets. It is seemingly a small detail, but when it is one of the first pitstops in a country, it actually forms an important part in your overall impression. Welcome to England - will the last person to leave please flush the toilet.

Louise Marley, Canterbury,

Here here. I did exactly the same - arrived into the mirth that is Terminal One at Heathrow in December after jaunting around the Far east for 2 months. My first thought was "how on earth did we build such an Empire?". Perhaps we should put the Thais in charge?

Adele, Cheshire, Cheshire, UK

Are you Brits always so unhappy? Cheer up, no one is going to judge your country because of some damn toilet. Wembley Stadium, on the other hand, was AMAZING!!

British papers need to be a bit more optimistic!

yankie doodle, cleveland, usa

You should see the toilets on some of the trains - eg First Capital Connect between Bedford and Brighton. Or rather you should prepare yourself for horrors from any such visit. Admittedly I last used these about a year ago but using them was a truly gut wrenching experience. Not for those with a weak stomach! I could not help gagging and retching after a brief visit.

Gerard, London, UK

Do all the snidey negative comments from expats make them feel any better? I've lived outside the UK for 14 years and my real regret is that I may have missed the boat, because of property prices, to ever be able to come back permanently. If I could I would, because what is a much used sloppy loo at a madly busy airport compared to freedom of speech: the right to laugh at politicians, to look realistically at religion and live in this beautiful little country with it's eccentricity, it's sarcasm and wit, the bustle and the good old moaning (which is British therapy!), and don't knock the national health till you've lived outside it!! I love it - the grass ain't so green as these desperado's would have you think! British bogs are grotty, always have been, lets prioritize shall we! Why are so many people trying to get in Duh!!

Mo Woodgate, Surakarta, Indonesia

I tell you what's typically British - having over 100 natives sharpen their knives to give the country a good kicking.

I live on the beach overlooking the Lake District. There's a lovely, classically English pub just up the road. I'm met with kindness and laughter by the local dog walkers and villagers and as long as I don't read the newspapers I'm usually very positive and happy about where I live.

There's one word to explain the fall in standards in British civic life - privatisation. If you want to blame anyone blame Thatcher. She started it!

Shaun Goater, Bolton-le-Sands, UK

The mantra of government since 1979 has been "Maximun choice for the lowest price", as if either of those objectives was desirable in themselves. Choice is meaningless if every option is low quality/unfit for purpose. Cheapest means low/unacceptable quality. But the public apparently demands both, and gets what it deserves. Politicians and large swathes of the public have forgotten that if you pay peanuts you get monkeys, and that quality costs. We pay our money (or not) and take our choice. Lack of self respect, regard for others and common courtesy go hand in hand with lowest quality/greatest volume/cheapest price. Those of us who reject that repulsive philosophy know what to do when we next decide which politicians to elect.

Stephen Mannering, Nottingham,

There is an simple solution to sorting out London's airports.

The eurostar should stop at Paris Roissy airport. It already passes a few km away and the TGV from Paris to Brussels passes there, so there should be minimal infrastructure requirements.

Add in lower flight taxes from France and offset the cost of the Heathrow express against the eurostar and it should be possible to frighten BAA into improving its loos.

alan, london,

I left England 4 years ago because of the way it had changed. I visit once a year and feel like a stranger, Britain has become a basket case and there's no going back. Of course the government bear some responsibility but the people do too. In Britain today everything is always someone else's fault and having a newer car than your neighbour is what matters most. Good riddance.

Richard, Xi'an, China

Whatt we're best or worst at(depends on point of view):

1.Unhealthiest
2.Fattest
3.Most litter
4.Most vandalised
5.Most fly-tipping
6.Most binge-drinking
7.most congested roads
8.most drivers per acre
9.Eat most unhealthiest food
10.Most school leavers unable to read
11.Most spied-upon
12.Most bugs-ridden hospitals
13.Most complicated train timetables
14.Worst transport infrastructure
15.Most dog mess
16.Most bookmakers
17.Most drugs available
18.Take least exercise
19.Unhappiest pupils
20.Worst trauma treatments
21.Worst child drug abuse
22.Most sexual diseases
23.3rd worst HIV cases
24.Worst Basic Pension
25.Most Shoplifting incidents

This can of course change, usually for the worse it seems, every week.

Peter Day, Doncaster, UK

Yep, couldn't agree more. I have to say that there are aspects of Britain that really make me wonder why I stay - crappy service in some of our shops (please tell me how the large chains managed to destroy the small independant shops because I despair every time I make the mistake of going into one) , the filthy streets, the high cost of living, the patronising attitude of some of our public servants (such as the staff of maternity wards in the hospitals we used when our childrebn were born). Heathrow does take the biscuit - surly staff, poor facilities , long queues, expensive prices for everything, and the final welcome of long queues at arrivals when they have 1 desk open for EU passport holders and 20 open for non-EU (and don't you dare change to the shorter non-EU queue...)

Dave, Reading, UK

Much as we miss life in England, the countryside, the banter, the history - we are constantly shocked by the lack of pride in anything - from the litter, loos, streetscape, service. Unbelievably sad for what is otherwise a fabulous country. I just don't understand why the entire nation hasn't taken to the streets in protest at what's happening to the Country.

Liz Smith, Sydney, NSW, Australia

The Romans had baths and loos and central heating. When they left we descended into the Dark Ages. You have to hire good people and fire the useless ones. When I see great big fat 50-years olds tattood and pierced and they way they act and speak, I realise the UK is the pits, and it is getting worse. We moan about the EU but we are responsible for the awfulness of our society.

Frederick, London, UK

I left the UK in 1963 for Germany and can readily confirm that in those days the public toilets were frankly often disgusting. One of the initial worst thinds one was always confronted with, was the terrible penetrating odour of the standard disinfectant universally used. Today, when I come over, things have bettered slightly but I went to a toilet at a petrol station in the Midlands last year and there was human excrement all over the floor and walls - appalling and made me fell quite sick. The standard equipment/plumbing is obviously not properly regulated by the local authorities and although sometimes a person has the job of looking after the facilities, there appears to be no management contol.

Peter G, Koblenz, Germany

BAA's monopoly over our major UK airports cannot be allowed to continue - they are responsible for this misery. The best way to resolve it is a bit of competition. I can often get to my chosen destination from Stansted, Heathrow, Gatwick or City airport, with Stansted as my preference, but even that is starting to look a bit "tired" now. If an airport authority finds people opting to use a different, it will hit their revenue stream (particularly from shopping) and they will sharpen up their act.

Garry , London, UK

I think we British do not take it serious about solving problems, and they do not really like to criticise things. Let say would you work over the weekend for the same rate as week days?

Mack, Harrow/London, UK

To think once the French toilets were the pits , literally ! now they are always clean modern . It was astonishing the speed they turned them around.
I don't know why the toilets should be so bad at Gatwick, could it be the attendants are lazy, are from a country with low standards or have BAA [ Spanish ] decided attendants are no longer needed ?

maggie Millington, brittany , France

After the two articles by Tad Safran talking about the dire state of British women, I watched the tourists and natives in Vienna over Christmas and New Year. I have come to the conclusion that the worst-dressed people are all English-speakers - of whatever nationality. The Americans dress like Teletubbies (such baggy trousers - do they wear diapers under them?). The British dress drably and dowdily. No pride in their appearance. Their hair is a mess; they wear drab clothes. They must really have no good opinion of themselves. If they don't care about themselves enough to dress with some respect for themselves, then they're not likely to care about anything else, are they?

I felt so embarrassed by them.

I am British - but these days, you couldn't pay me enough to live in the country. As Chris pointed out, the countryside is lovely. The towns, the buildings, the streets, the pavements.... it's all dire. Depressing. Drab. Dirty.

Tina, Dusseldorf, Germany

It would appear that there is a health risk with dirty public toilets and therefore the local council public health department should be involved.
Where are the health inspectors?
I they can inspect shops and restaurants for vermin and state of cleaning facilities for staff why are they not inspecting the public toilets at the airports and close them down if they do not meet the required standard of cleanliness?

A C London

Alberto Corsini, London, UK

Stop moaning you had a cheap trip, when your ilk pays the true price of using the world as your oyster then maybe travel will become the special priviledge it once was.

wayne, huntingdon, cambs

The Gatwick and Heathrow are both shockingly bad first impressions of the UK. Having recently travelled to Australia through Singapore, where both airports have tighter security, well dressed, polite and alert staff and no queues, I was so embarressed to be back home in Heathrow where the treatement was shocking, the staff look more akin to students with baggy uniforms, over stretched jumper sleeves!!! Perhaps if we did pay the staff who are protecting the national security of this country decent wages we might actually have airports and a first impression of this country to be proud of.

Claire, Winchester , UK

It amazes me that just because we are "Modern" now we think we are immune to the ravages of history and change!

ALL empires and ALL civilizations come to an end sooner or later and I find it as no suprise that the once Great Britain has gone this way! What amazes me even more though ais that the sheepl living in it can't see it. Move and live in Germany or Canada or Sweden or or or for a short time and then move back and you will see how far down the scale it has gone!

Sad but essentially inevitable to be honest and no nothing can be done about it.

Mark, Peterborough , UK

Well, Labour have certainly done a good job over the past ten years. They have torn apart just about every thing Britain once stood for with a policy of multicultralism, open door immigration, etc. The sad fact is that society is being torn apart and people no longer give a damm.

chris, woodbridge, suffolk

Having lived in Spain some 20 years and visit the UK as rarely as possible for all the reasons listed by your posters. I object to the cracks about 'Spanish' standards. ALL the toilets I visit here are beautifully kept and maintained we would never put up with 'British' standards. I travel the world quite a lot and please accept it from me that Briish airport standards are third world and low low low in every respect I won't bother to go into the rip-off cost of more or less everything - you know about that.

Ripsnorter (ex-pat), Malaga, Spain

Yes. For 20 or so years I have been 'forced' to use Luton airport for reasons I won't bore you with for my rarer and rarer visits to the country of my birth of which I am now ashamed. Over that 20 years, seemingly, Luton has been on a constant 're-build'. I now consider it worse than it was 20 years ago. I wrote what I considered was a long helpful lettter about the shortcomings of his aiport (as an experienced worldwide traveller) to the managing director about one year ago - I am still awaiting a reply- I am not holding my breath...that says it all.

Victor M., Marbella, Spain

I suggest a more senior post to bear ultimate responsibility - a seat in the Upper Chamber for the Loo Lord.

However I must say that one Sunday last October I had a much dreaded 9 hour stop over at Heathrow Terminal 2 in transit from Canada to Rome. It was actually quite pleasant - I sat reading the Sunday Times and drinking cappucinos, in between snoozes - much how people often spend Sundays these days, I believe. There was an internet post, some nice shops, and the loos were lovely.

Christopher Birchall, Vancouver

Christopher Birchall, Vancouver,

Key requirements of public and private service provision are Competence, Cleanliness and Courtesy. These should be the criteria by which to judge and reward performance.

wilfrid legg, paris, france

I don't agree with this negative viewpoint. There's heaps in Britain to be proud of - why knocking it has become a pastime for some is beyond me and very sad. I guess it's not 'cool' to think and speak positively.
By the way, the toilets I visited last week at Gatwick (2 different blocks) were spotless.

Clarrie, Bucks., UK

Great article and unfortunately completely accurate.

Try landing at Heathrow and Manchester and the experience is similar. And its not just the toilets that are dirty.

All the public areas look dirty and shabby and then when you get onto the motorways you see litter everywhere. Litter that looks like it has been there for years.

We have lived abroad on several occasions and the contrast between our adopted home and the UK is truly staggering.

I think the malaise is everywhere from government departments failing to deliver the most basic standards of service to people in service industries just not doing their jobs.

Too many think tanks and strategies and highly paid gurus and not enough actual grass roots delivery.

We now live in Dubai. Land at Dubai airport and you will be impressed with the high standards of cleanliness delivered by low paid workers too. So clearly pride in your work goes a long way.

David A, Dubai, UAE

How right Alice Miles and most of the correspondents are. Gatwick and Heathrow are just an introduction to the catastrophic decline in standards that has been ruining the country for the past 25 years or more. Always barely adequate, at boarding school in the fifties we were expected to share bath water and got just one set of clean underwear per week,, hygiene in Britain has now totally vanished. Our towns and cities are a squalid mix of litter, graffiti and worse.
Spitting seems to have returned as a national habit. The service in shops and public services is a national disgrace. In Denmark just before Christmas every item purchased was neatly gift-wrapped as a matter of course, free of charge by smiling sales people who knew about what they were selling. Here we accept expensive items shoved into a plastic bag by indifferent, rude and utterly uninterested sales assistants.
The whole wretched place is appalling, and getting worse. I would encourage any young person to emigrate.

Tony Laycock, Brighton, England

we are over-populated, with a totally inadequate education system, a chronically managed NHS and a transport system on the verge of collapse. This, and the 'stroppy British factor' have reduced this country to the status of a slut with her her knickers round her ankles lying on her back in the gutter inviting the rest of the world to kick her. And with Jonathan Ross the highest paid presenter on television and you can see how far our standards have slipped.

The stinking loos at Gatwick are merely the most graphic and disgusting manifestion of this.

We need a moratorium on immigration, reintroduction of National Service (civil/military), supply side revolution in the provision of education to massively increase choice for parents, ditto NHS with tax incentives for private medical insurance. Only by increasing responsibility for individuals will we ever grow up as a society and restore some respect to this once proud nation. This is a worse country now than it was 10 years ago.

Ben, London,

I've spent most of the last ten years out of Britain, too, and have to agree with everything people have said here. It is dirty, miserable, ridiculously expensive, tatty, sour - the question is why?

We can all get on our own hobby horses and blame Blair, or Thatcherism, or 60s counter-culture, but it must be more than any of these.

To get my own tuppence worth in, I think it's because we have lost all sense of public space. We spend a fortune on our houses, the latest luxury kitchens etc, but once something is not personally ours we don't give a damn.

In other words, selfishness at every level - individual, civic, corporate, political. And we have got the nasty, cheap, brutish society we deserve.

alan, bohemia, czech republic

Whoa!
Don't knock Gatwick quite so hard, because it is a lovely airport. I visited the 'gents' on Monday 31st December (North terminal) and it was clean and in good order. Most of the Gatwick airport staff are polite, helpful and well trained. I would guess that Ms Miles visited an 'airside' lavatory after immigration control and before baggage reclaim. If she had reported the matter to any airport employee, cleaning staff would have been called. Don't forget that it was her fellow travellers that made the mess, not the cleaners.

Tim C, Southern England, United Kingdom

Everyone seems to be so eager to place the blame on something or someone: when will the British public confront the fact that EACH AND EVERYONE of us is responsible for the country we live in. WE, personaly, have sown and continue to sow the seeds of degradation by accepting without loud complaint, or simple refusal, to go along with absurd rules and regulations and appalling standards, by isolating ourselves socially within our elitist or not group, family or just ALONE...we are a mean spirited nation...poor in spirit and poor in pocket, and we do the minimum possible for ourselves and our neighbours as long as we feel we are getting away with something cheap, free or more than we put in. Dirty toilets, third world airports, appalling motorway stops is what we deserve: we never ASK or GIVE more, just in case we may have to pay not just for us but for others!!!!!!! Great Britain is indeed on an irreversible slide into third world conditions.

F. Mc Kee, Windsor

franca, windsor, berks

Unfortunately this is not all in the last ten years .Some twenty years ago I passed through Zurich airport where I drank an excellent cup of coffee and ate a delicious cake served by me a Swiss girl who was not an immigrant. From there I flew to Gatwick and sat in an airport cafe where I saw a sari clad cleaner tip the contents of ashtrays from tables onto the floor and then sweep them under the tableclothes. When in San Francisco I talked to some town planners who had sent a team to Europe to among other things see how public toilets might be improved in the city.They had been to Germany and to France and were very impressed.When I mentioned had they been to the UK-I was met with blank glance which said this was the country not to go to if you wanted to see improvements.

george, Exeter, U.K.

I agree completely. I grew up in London and have lived in Denmark since 1987. Visits to my home town have become increasingly depressing over the years. It's the shabbiness of it all that gets to me. Nothing seems to work properly and nobody with the power to change anything gives a damn. Naturally, they say they do, but ordinary people still have to wait too long, pay too much, and accept unacceptable levels of service.

Thomas Golzen, Copenhagen,

I guess the grass is always greener on the other side.

John B, Houston, Texas

What dioes one expect when city and corprate fatcats - often incompetent - are overpaid by a factor of 100 or more compared with good honest workers and middle-class citizens. Only the fatcats have profited from recent economic growth, the rest of us have been fobbed off with cheap and or easy credit, which is on the point of ending. Any would-be tourist should first consider that a B&B in Edinburgh comes for the same rate as a 4-star hotel room in central Berlin, the latter clean, very spacious, and offering a fabulous breakfast. (And guess whose toilets win!).

Douglas, Arlesheim, Switzerland

Not one offer to join you on your cleaning campaign Alice. Lots of bashing the UK which was not the object of your article. Rather like the joke on this site about Republicans changing light bulbs.
Sorry I cannot join you - wrong side of London you know ;-)

Richard, Leighton Buzzard, UK

What came over to me this year, on my return from Atlanta, is that the whole aspect of Gatwick resembles some kind of old third world country. I say old because, as has been stated, those countries now leave us behind. As you move from the toilets to the train station, you begin to realise just how bad the situation is - really unacceptable, in my view.

Ian Young, Reading, UK

As an Englishman who loves his country, all it's achieved and what it once stood for, I had to move out rather than suffer any more. Years of damage done by PC morons and inept, self gratifying politicians has taken things to a point where they will never recover. I now live in Spain - a country where family values and common sense about living ones life prevail - I only wish I had the opportunity to do it years ago. Great Britain, R.I.P.

Bob Pratt, Almeria, Spain

Dear God. What did this flight of Americans do to our poor British toilet?

Dave, Birmingham,

Why are all these ex pats moaning about everything in Britain yet all seem to resort to reading the British press?

And just for the record, in Latin America it's not that the public toilets are rubbish it's just there aren't any. My bladder certainly learned new tolerances there.

Every country has its good and bad points and I bet all these ex pats have their moans about their present countries too. Go on e-mail them in!

Norman Comyns, Redditch, Worcestershire

We, the English, ARE miserable. Its the accumulative affect of years of being told what not to do or say so we can't think anymore, depressing disease-ridden hospitals, crime and violance and unsafe streets, unchecked immigration so our language no longer counts,no one queues at bus stops anymore or anywhere else really,schools are an absolute joke unless you are rich or middle class,CCTVs everywhere and anxiety and stress dominate our thoughts and feelings we have been ruined by our own governments who, it seems, hate us.

Torchy, Romford,

Well done Alice. You certainly have stirred up the Brit Bashers with your sense of humour. I hope you didn't go too far - it seems a lot of them actually believe you! That is the sort of article to win you prizes.
I use Gatwick regularly and find the toilets quite clean. And as far as US International airports are concerned, I don't have to stand and be photgraphed and fingerprinted for the CIA when I go through there.

Not disgusted, Tunbridge Wells

John, Tunbridge Wells, England

Do politicians have to use Gatwick loos?

If Mr Bean-Brown and the rest of the privilegati were required to live as most Britons, daily suffering public squalor and filth, there might be action.

So don't let's hold our collective breath. Except when we're in Gatwick loos.

Brian Cloughley, Voutenay sur Cure, France

Well I like it here!

I was born here, I live here, and am always glad when I get back here after traveling abroad. All these ex-pats commenting on how awful England is, and they're glad they left, is pathetic. You certainly haven't lost the English trait of moaning, have you? You don't live here anymore, so stop moaning about the place. We know all you're doing is seeking to justify your decisions to leave but putting this country down.

It's still a great country to live in, and that's from someone who actually lives here.

Rob, Cambridge, UK

Has anyone else noticed how many gloating foreigners (especially Aussies) or expats have read and commented on this article? Presumably the toilets may be cr*p in this country but not the newspapers, hey chaps? What good is a clean loo if your journalists can't write for toffee and you'd rather read a British paper whilst squatting or eating off your nice clean thrones? Quit beating up on the country - that incidentally is far better off without you and you still (ever so) secretly miss and long for... Why else would you be reading an article in a 'foreign' paper about the state of a nation's toilets?

Armitage Shanks, Hampshire, England

I'm a Brit living in France who left the UK just because life got too stupid and unreasonable - working every hour that God sent and getting less and less each year as the country fell apart around my ears.

These days if I have to return for any reason, I try to get in and touch as quickly as possible and try not to look around too much.

What a bizarre, insane country. And nobody seems to do anything but whinge!

Voland, Caen, France

An excellent piece which sums up so much of what frustrates an increasing majority of us on a day to day basis in this country.

With particular regard to airports (and Gatwick is a major culprit) - it is the gob smacking lack of common sense combined with the relentless drive for retail profit which is most frustrating. Millions of people will pass through the place each week - yes many will wish to purchase coffee, perfume, newspapers etc etc but almost all will at some stage require to use the lavatory, especially just before boarding and just after alighting - most of us are simple souls and immediately recognise this why can the 'experts' who run these places do the same?

ENR, London,

Surely it wasn't always as bad as this ? I can remember traveling down to Kings Cross from Newcastle in the 1950s and using an immaculately clean toilet facility at the station. "Wash & Brush-Up - 6d" was the inviting slogan. Polite and cheerful attendants gave you a clean LINEN towel to dry your hands and sent you on your way feeling a lot better about things. Perhaps that's the key here - actual attendants on the job full-time. Immediate action on spills and defects. Riff-raff kept out or at least controlled.
All gone now - probably to make room for yet more retail space.
Airport facilities ? I would urge BAA officials to go take a look at Phoenix Skyharbor : beautifully renovated and expanded with
helpful and knowledgeable retirees patroling the concourses in their distinctive uniforms.

David Thomas, Slough, UK

Heathrow is as bad as Gatwick, it's humiliating. One thing I have noticed with annoyance that WH Smith and other concessions are permitted to sell only LARGE bottles of plain water at a very high price, and there are no drinking fountains or cold water to drink from the taps in the loos? So you have to buy far more water than you really need at a price that's through the roof. Just another way of fleecing customers and making them miserable. Luton is not too bad but then that is not a BAA airport.

JA, London,

Alice

What can I say: New Year, new toilet brush?

The problem you highlight of being repeatedly embarrassed by filthy public services and buildings is very real, and not just designated to the toilet bowel - how long for example before the gleaming new St Pancras is covered in a layer of dust and pigeon toot because no one can be bothered or paid to clean it up after untangling a tangled contractual web. We live in a Britain where the catchphrase is quickly becoming "no blame, no shame". Want a precident: see the Paddington railway station glass extension of about 15 years ago - covered in grot!

Do I feel the need coming on for a new name and shame Times newspaper award for the 10 worst............?

Gary Sector, London, UK

Excellent article and sums up some of the basic ills that blight the UK. Pride and Manners are two qualities that seem to be missing from many service/customer facing organisations here in the UK. Yes there is a bigger picture to be concerned about, but at the end of the day it's the small things that we come into contact with on an every day basis that really forms opinions and feelings about 'our' space.

Yes, there needs to be a vast improvements in the quality of delivery of services here in the UK, but it can only improve if we play our part and tell the service companies how we feel. No I am not a professional complainer, but I am a great believer in giving feedback, if you find a bad service, then point it out politely! I find that embarrassment generally kick-starts a revival of better service quality.

However, sometimes there are total incompetents in charge and that takes a bit longer. I took a phone picture of a public toilet at Heathrow a while ago and sent it to manag

Mike, Reading, UK

Alas for poor Britain.

In the last ten years the Government has overseen a 100% rise in council tax and a 100% worsening of services. I no longer recycle using the council scheme fearful of being taken to court by a money grabbing council who can't fix the roads.

We have no pride, no desire to do anything than push ourselves to work harder and harder to justify our jobs and then get smashed in public to try and make sence of it.

This piece brings it into perspective very nicely. Too many fingers in too many pies and loos that don't work the result.

Well written.

James, Glasgow,

Why on earth sould the availability of a cash machine encourage profligacy? I walk past many cash machines every day without feeling the need to spend any extra money. And you met an immigration officer at the airport? I didn't know we still had them. At least that was good news. As for the rest of your article, you are absolutley right.

Tam Earl-Aine, Cheltenham,

A country is no different from a large company. It is a reflection on it's leadership.
Given 10 years of spinning, self serving political correctness what can we expect.
Alice Miles is very brave, the pc brigade will find a way of twisting her remarks to be racist. Thatb is how we are all kept quiet and in line.
Face it this country fully deserves the crap image reflected on arrival at Gatwick. Well done BAA for at least being honest and not giving a stuff.

john, lincoln,

Whenever possible I catch the Eurostar to Paris CDG and fly out from there. This must be a better alternative for even more people now that it leaves from St Pancras.

Rich, Canterbury, UK

Absolutely true though in my idea of Hell the Dutch would be in charge of customer service because of their "expertise" in dealing with people. The Brits though would be responsible for making sure things worked which - as you can see from the article - they'd be eminently suitable for in Hell.

B Redfern, Krsko, Slovenia

There are many such problems in the UK today with no pride being taken in society. But to single out the airports, what do we expect when we sell out this service to the highest bidder? The Spanish have been shafting our fishing industry for decades, why do you think they would give any more of a damn about our airports? They see it as a cash cow to be squeezed to make money. That's it. No pride in providing a world class service, no particular desire to be the proud first face of visitors to this country from all over the world. They don't give a damn what passengers think, they are a monoply after all. They want profits which means services get cut to the bone. As long as planes aren't crashing on the runways, they won't give a damn about how dirty the toilets are or how poor the food is. This 'profits-first' mentality is fast growing in the UK, especially in the NHS, and we just sit by and accept it.

Grumpy Old Man, London, England

You've hit the nail on the head, Rick: culture of community and pride. I'm in Australia and it's very different. The only sad development is sudden arrival, over the past eighteen months ago, of graffiti - especially where there are lots of Brits clustered together. Dare I ask: is there a link? If so, the loos may be next.

Olja, Perth, Australia

You can always tell that you've arrived back in a third world country when you get to Gatwick. The whole experience is miserable.

Tony Webber, Ramsey, Isle of Man

haha, the usual collection of ex-pats moaning about the state of the UK.. Could you all do me a favour please and NEVER set foot in the UK again? The less of you lot the better.

Owen, London, UK

Sadly it is not just toilets, it is almost everything else. I regularly tell my council about 'grot spots and ask them to clear up the mess. What surprises me about many of them is that (A) they are near the Town Hall/town centre and (B) regularly passed by councillors. One in particular holds the portfolio for the ENVIRONMENT!!!!, and doesn't he just love getting his picture in the paper when he launches yet another initiaitive.
When who should be looking after our interests turn a blind eye, how can you expect anyone else to bother.
David-Lancashire

David Walker, Burnley, England

I blame outsourcing, normally the term is associated with jobs going to low cost countries. But it is also applicable here in the case where many companies outsource e.g. cleaning functions to a cleaning services company.

Councils used to manage refuse collection (prior to deregulation by Maggie) this is now performed by private companies. Hence council tax rises are above inflation to fund payment to these companies.

All the additional money we pay never makes it to the poor bloke who is cleaning our faeces or taking our rubbish away. It is taken up by the shareholders and owners of the services companies.

Kris, London,

The toilets in Salcombe are very clean - a definite 9/10 - but of course it's miles away from Gatwick so you'd have to have good bladder control.

Ian Burgess, Bristol,

As an Expat so many things rings true, things are bad back home, cost of living, disunity in society, immigration out of control etc.
The worst thing I find is the general lack positivity in people and the article hits the nail on the head, the government has to give positivity back to the country.
Give the country back its identity, something to proud in, but how can that happen when national pride is dismantled by 'PC' do-gooders telling everyone that 'national pride' alienates minorities?

Dave, Gibraltar,

This article is absolutely right. Great Britain has become lost in a sea of productivity targets and goals that have washed all responsibility and pride in work down the pan.

C Hall, Sheffield, UKI

Well.. actually the designs and regulations for toilets.. particulary in public spaces are the issue here. UK has no design standards for toilets in a heavily used environment. So just the standards designed for domestic situations are used.. as brief as these are. This is comapcted by a belief that using less water in a toilet is a good thing. So here's what you find - Not enough cubicles for women (no recommendations exist), cubicles too small, tiny flow of water into the head so it takes 5 mins to fill the head. MDF or some other rotting material used extensively in the wet areas. Blocked cisterns. Look at the french system - High pressure flush for as long as you want it, often remote control so no levers to pull, paid attendants located inside the WC complex. One other point to mention.. we in Britain get the lowest standards because we tolerate it.

Dave - the plumber, Camberley,

Goodness what a bunch of moaners!
Just because one lot of toilets were out of action at Gatwick it doesn't mean that the whole country is going down the pan!
Here in Kent there is beautiful countryside, there is excellent food available in a variety of wonderful old pubs and restaurants, the schools are good, and the local culture is alive and thriving with drama, comedy, live music. We have castles, churches and stately homes a thousand years older than anything in America or Australia. I have travelled a fair bit and I wouldn't ever live anywhere else.

Mike, Tonbridge, England

'Make no mistake about it Great Britain is on an irreversible slide into third-world conditions'. No! we already are, we are just a little too complacent to believe it, because we have a few super rich we are fooled into thinking we still eat at the top table. Look at 3rd world countries, they are in the same boat as us, failing industries, failing institutions, everything worth owning owned by others outside our boarders, and on top of that a raft of super rich living off the fat of the land. Third world, we've been part of it for decades.

Richard, Portsmouth, UK

"Somewhere, some time, the United Kingdom lost its pride in itself."

Yes it did, its because you have spent your life beating pride out of it with the political correctness club

Dominic, Manchester, UK

John Court of Australia does not understand the British system - no one in Government is ever held responsible for anything and resignation is a word no MP would know the meaning of. There are standard replies to debacles ranging from Tony Blair's cover-all 'Well yunno I just don't agree' through 'A Government spokesman today rejected claims that.....' to 'opinions must be taken on board and lessons must be learned'. All mean exactly the same thing - 'Yeah we know things are crap and couldn't give a stuff. Live with it'. At the moment British MPs are too busy to concern themselves with trivia like the country's moral and financial bankruptcy - they've got their proposed above inflation pay-rise to worry about, a periodic problem that galvanises them in a way nothing else approaches. Filthy toilets at Gatwick, well who cares about those; MPs go to the VIP lounge anyway.

eric campbell, harrogate, uk

No one is suggesting that everything is right about this country but plenty is. I've been all over the place and by far the worst airport I've ever been in is Miami however I still like visiting America. Walking around Paris and seeing plenty of dog excrement on the pavements or urine splattered walls doesn't mean Paris has suddenly turned into a sewer.

People who move from this country and don't come back, as the majority of the comments seem to come from, can take a running jump, you gave up your right to sit in judgement when you bailed out. This is a great, tolerant but flawed country but I wouldn't swap it for any other.

Andy, Cheltenham,

Get a grip - I wish all these expats would get lost for good. Nowwhere in Britain is like Australia blah blah, service is rubbish blah blah, the whole country is crowded blah blah. Perhaps if you stepped out side your SE bubble you'd find less population, lower costs in fact all the things you rant about. Or you can stay in Aus water running low, forest fires, permenant air con, but its brilliant coz the sun shines a bit more.

Al, Newcastle,

I agree with the article, but I think that the problem with UK airports is much bigger than the loos. My wife lives in London and I live in Milan, I used to travel to London every week end, but I recently gave up, using Gatwick or Heathrow was a very unpleasant thing to do in your free time. Now we have agreed that either she comes to Milan or we meet somewhere else. The last time we met in Paris, I was in Terminal 2F at CDG and that just shows that the UK has become, for public services, a third world country.
But the British public seems to be ok with that, no one complaints, it's entirely ok for the average Brit to be held at ransom for hours at Stanstead or Gatwick for "security" checks, treated like dirt by some unplesant bufoons. I don't remember any other European airport that leaves such bad memories like the London airports. Now that I no longer fly to London I feel like a human being, I no longer feel like a cash machine for BAA.

Ross, Milan,

I came back to the UK for good three months ago after five years in China and I have to say I don't recognise the Britain that most of the 'I can't stand the UK anymore' ex-pats are talking about. Yes, the airports are a disgrace, mainly because of the stupid, petty rules and generally offensive treatment from BAA staff (they really are the pits). Yes, the London Underground is ridiculously bad - why is it that there seems to be a 'signal failure' somewhere on the network at least once a day and what does this say about safety standards? What I hate most about both of these establishments has to be the 'Please don't abuse our staff' posters, the entire ethos where, instead of trying to improve standards of service and thus reduce stress, you simply put up posters telling people to basically keep their mouths shut is one entirely alien to me.
All the same, these institutions don't represent the UK, all this stuff about 'national decline' and 'lack of pride' sounds rather old-fashioned.

FOARP, London, UK

I just have to agree with most of the comments. I grew up in a different England (maybe because seen through a child's eyes. I left thirty-eight years ago and after initially returning frequently, I now seldom go back. When I do, I am alarmed at the way the British seem to overlook the shoddiness and squalor of their surroundings. Finding things nice, which are just plain cheap and taking bad service as a given thing. I am sad to say that there is little sign that things will improve - in fact just the opposite. Wake up Britain!
Tim Wilder
Hong Kong

Tim Wilder, Kowloon, Hong Kong

I returned to UK in 1987 having spent five years abroad in the Caribbean. I visited USA on many occassions during this period and suffered a culture shock each time. I am still waiting for the shock since I arrived back!!
John Pepper Essex
(Return of the natives)

John Pepper, Calvering, Essex

Britain is reaping, and will continue to reap, the seeds of degradation sown by the recently converted Tony Blair. The outworking of the lies and spin generated during his term as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom will be felt for many years to come.
Make no mistake about it Great Britain is on an irreversible slide into third-world conditions.

Raymond Atkinson, Belfast,

I agree entirely with this article. After 17 years in Australia and the Far East I find myself working back in Britain.
Let me first say that I find most people individually polite, interesting and helpful and enjoy the way people have individual views here a lot more than many other places in the world.

the bad bit - all services, whether they are public or private are a disgrace from first impressions. Nowhere in the world does one have to pay more for less..in times gone by Britain just had crappy (can i use that word in pc britain?) services. Now it has crappy services that cost a fortune which seem to be staffed by people who would pour a bucket of water over you if you were on fire. NOWHERE in the world (and I have been most places) do people seem so miserable, rude and basically selfish when encountered in their workplace.

My view is that the system in UK has made them like this, no culture of community or pride exists so people have no role model to follow.

Rick, Derby,

Unfortunately we Brits have never really have had a sense of style. We certainly have no concept of what is now called facilities management.

I go back there once a year to a tired and clapped out country.

It's very sad.

David, Dubai, UAE

The nail has been shown and hit firmly on its head.
Toilets are symbolic of a nation without pride and values

john, nice, france

I am British. I've lived abroard most of my adult life but did return to dear old blighty 2002-5. It was rubbish and I left again taking my family with me. I've no idea what's behind it but bottom line - the people are rude, service levels are apalling, the food is dire, the infrastructure and public services are crumbling and it's ridiculously expensive.

john, hong kong,

I agree with this article and all the comments.
I shall not forget in a hurry the filthy and squalid toilets at Canterbury Cathedral, and the ones at Arundel Castle were not much better. In fact most of the UK seems to resemble a rubbish tip.
Where is the national pride, and why does no one complain but just accept these dreadful standards?
What an impression to give to tourists, and it's not surprising that they don't want to return.

Anita , Perth, Western Australia

How right you are! I was born in England, but now live in Australia. My family, however, are still in the UK and I have made the trip back to see them several times, but NEVER AGAIN!!
All the airports I have flown through are excellent, except those in England. They are filthy, ill maintained, cramped and very expensive.
The last time I fly back from Manchester and could not find a seat in the departure lounge that had not been thrown up on, stained or slashed/ripped open.
The people who run UK airports should take a trip to Dubai, Singapore or KL to see how it should be done.
As a Brit I feel very embarrassed that visitors to the UK have to endure these awful places!

Nick, Perth, Australia

Both Heathrow and Gatwick look exactly like Chandi Chowk to me .The security people just need the lathis and all will be complete. Both are a nightmare to transit through. Arriving from anywhere into T4 and having to join the long line into security is a damned disgrace. The white tent outside Heathrow is a third world creation . Tony and Gordon should try it and see what its like to be an ordinary member of the public trying to go about their business..
God help all who sail in the Good ship Britain. What exactly was ww11 for.? Give me German roads and trains and charge for the use of same. Finally put Gordon out of his misery. Can the country stand two more years of flim flam.

Aston Martin, Gretna, of mind

Perception is all important....and that about sums it up!

On the rare occasions that I set foot in the country of my birth, I drive across from Europe, do what has to be done as quickly as possible and then get out.

Such a shame when what is left of the countryside is so beautiful.

The solution - Minister for Public Latrines?!

Chris, Newcastle upon Tyne (formerly),

I agree with Alice. There is no sense of pride in the delivery of "public services" by private contractors. The only motive is money and the real element of delivering money, service, is now anethema to those running these services. Unfortunately with BAA being a monopoly for airport services in London and owned by the Spanish services will get worse not better. On the broader front try finding a shop assistant in a department store who is knowledgable and wants to serve. Forget it. Try finding apoliceman who knows the area he serves, especially at stations. The answer is "I have been drafted here. It's not my usual patch". Go to a chain DIY and ask for help. It is not forthcoming because of "health and safety". The entire public face of government, business and retail is staffed by badly paid, uninterested and disaffected staff. And it shows. And foreigners see it and buy elsewhere.

We are in a globla economy for everything and that includes service so WAKE UP BRITAIN

Patrick Devlin, Taipei, Taiwan

I travel all over the world and without a doubt Gatwick is the worst airport I use. I changed my travel arrangments from Thailand last year because it is only 20 mins from where I live. On my next journey I will use Heathrow, not much better but will travel the 2 plus hours rather than use Gatwick again.

Why does the UK still have this stupid size for your luggage, metal tube sir if it does not fit then.... Someone is making a lot of money here.

The toilets I agree are horrible, food expensive and horrible, you can go on and on but why bother, they have a monopoly on all the airports. Why should they try to improve anything if you have no choice. Remove the monoply and see what happens.

James, Brighton, UK

I left England in 1994, and will never go back, so sad, it´s not the country I grew up in 60 years ago...
Nobody cares anymore, only for themselves, and THAT includes all the politicians.
Here in Mexico I know it´s not perfect, but, the people smile, and are helpful, and life is definately better.

R E Wheeler, Vallarta, Mexico

You have hit the nail on the head! As with many of the previous comments I am currently abroad and can only confirm my dread everytime I travel back to the UK. Dont get me wrong, I love it when I get there it is just the nightmare of what show the world is acceptable such as at airports, stations etc is of a tired, dirty, manic country. A third of workers in Bahrain are immigrants on very much less than the minimum wage but they are incredibly polite & mutually respectful. At some point the UK wipes the smile away from almost everyone....at long last I know why, superb article!

Sue Jameson, Bahrain,

Alice- please send a copy of your excellent article to the head of Housekeeping Services at Gatwick Airport.
Someone should be be getting a poor performance review at the least. It's not too difficult to assign an employee to 'spot-check' all the bathrooms. At our local airport they do what is called 'white glove inspections'- and corrective action is taken if the cleaner is not doing their job properly.

Observer, Out West, USA

I left the UK 40 years ago and came to live in Canada. Even now I feel the tug of my homeland but when I visit now I realise I could never live there again. I went to London last year, and I found it really painful to see the conditions there. Picadilly, a very popular tourist spot was a mess A great chunk of the pavement had been dug up and was fenced in by a wire fence---it was obviously a work in progress, and obviously not too much progress was being made. There was a large fountain outside St. Pancras station, empty of water and completely filled with fast food wrappers, plastic water bottles and assorted junk, including condoms and dirty underwear.

The pavements on many shopping high streets arecracked and uneven and must surely must be unsafe for elderly people to walk along. And the small shops on the high street--full of beer and spirits--even the greengrocers adverise their beer pricesi n ther windows. I have to ask myself--how do people live?

Margaret Redding, Ottawa, Canada

About the UK toilets: Every other country in the world use buttons that you press to flush the toilet. I am confusd why an otherwise forward country like the UK insists on using the handle thing that you have to pump? They never work. Hence all teh blcoked toilets. And another thing I don't understand: Why do you still install sinks with different taps for hot and cold water??? The rest of the world has realised that it's more convenient wiht a tap that can give you tepid water... I think the Great Britain needs to update their lavatories....

Jennie, Sydney, Australia

All airport toilets should become the responsibility of all airlines whose passengers use them. One set of toilets for each airline. By having one airline clean a set of toilets, clients can complain if the toilets are dirty at the airline counters and tell them that in future they will chose an airline with clean toilets.
I would like to say that on my last visit through Heathrow, the toilets were clean and an attendant was there cleaning. This was the International terminal of course. I apologise that such an event has happened to you. Would you send a copy of your article to the Gatwick management team for action, and do a follow up story about their response and what you discover when you return to the same toilets to check if matters have improved before completing your follow-up article.

Jim Wills, Brisbane, Australia

Yes, many of the loos in the London area are dirty and not of the condition you see in other parts of Europe. I am an American who loves visiting London and other parts of the UK. The public loos are not the reason I come! Frequently they aren't free and can cost up to a pound or more. Heathrow may not be as bad as Gatwick but it isn't good. This is an area where the UK could improve

Harold Anderson, Lone Tree, Colorado 80124 USA

As a fellow connoisseur of airport toilets, I completely agree about Houston. The toilets alone are worth the flight.

David Mitchell, Cambridge, UK

Airport toilets and hospitals alike ,have their cleaning contracts
pass through more than one set of hands, each taking their cut as a profit.
This means there is money for everybody, except the
person who is actually doing the cleaning.

J Mckay, Wellington,

I agree - Gatwick is an unmitigated shambles where the traveller is emotionally and physically subjugated to the corporate bullying of the Spanish Inquisition that is BAA.
I feel my will to live ebb away every time we enter that souless mausoleum to inactivity that is the baggage reclaim hall. It feels like an enduring monument to soviet style management. Time after time the baggage is delayed, there is no information, there are no facilities, and the zombie like 'workforce' have a shrug of the shoulders as their prime communication mechanism. It always takes the edge off every journey that returns through what feels like a third-world airport.

Alan Jelley, Warwick, England

Not only the loos at Gatwick. All the water fountains have been put out of service by BAA in order that they can sell bottled water at 1.25 a time. Pretty pathetic! Houston's two airports including the five terminal Intercontinental are owned and run by the City of Houston!

Geoff Bywater, Rockport , Texas

I was last in the UK some 15 years ago, and I said then, "never again." It's dank, dismal and dirty. There is no pride in the people nor in their country. And that, perhaps, is the key word, "their" country. So much of the country is now made up of those who have no links to the palce, the history or the culture. Open the flood gates to all and sundry, and the result is a dilution of what a country stands for. Sadly Britain now stands for little, a country in decline.

David Fletcher, Perth, Western Australia

The current preocupation with targets and balance sheets obscures the uncountables. Cleanliness, manners, attitude, compassion and pride are all terms which are squeezed into oblivion by the rush to produce statistics or a bottom line figure on a spreadsheet. Customer satisfaction statistics should provide a benchmark for such matters but, unfortunately, this is also the easiest statistical counter to distort and misuse - ususally by the simple expedient of not asking customers who are obviously dissatisfied.

Harry Willis , North Yorkshire ,

How I agree with you! We are in Canada at the moment and I dread the thought of returning to Britain next week. I don't know what we can do to restore our pride, but the Canadians have surely found the way.

Pauline Hughes, Aberystwyth, Wales

Face it, Britain's a tip.
On New Year's Morning, when to this park in the centre of Karuizawa to walk round the pond and feed the ducks in the snow. Availed myself of the public conveniences, and the entire area was heated. Not just the lavatory seats, but the entire room. You know that in UK those hi-tech lavatory seats wouldn’t last 10 minutes, but here in Japan every home has them. But there you go; first-world country, third-world country. Britain's going down the pan, guys, and there’s no prize for being the last one to leave the sinking ship.

Andrew Milner, Karuizawa, Japan Alps

Is there only one toilet at Gatwick?

Scott Hanson, London,

Going on the reported year on year rise in intellect of the UK's youth, can I assume someone there will be breeding their children to eagerly take up the role of toilet cleaner - other than your own ofcourse?

Torst, Svanglad, Norway

Congratulations on your award - you have a great turn of phrase and manage to be funny even while discussing very serious and pertinent issues. It's always a pleasure to read your column.

James, Adelaide, Australia

Euston Stations toilets get my vote for the worst in the UK

Sochi, London,

I fully understand what Alice Miles was saying about Gatwick's loos. If I was there I would be ashamed of Britain's image which somehow can be tainted by the uncleanliness of its loos at an international airport and other public places. Something must be done about it. A public loo cleaning day is not enough. The contractor should have their contract discontinued and the manager who awarded the contract should be dismissed.

Canh Linh Humphries, Beckenham, UK

Well now I Have found the same situation outside Waskington DC. Someone wrote about the Decline of the West. Wonder who it was?

philc, spartanburg, sc

Well done Alice, you certainly have a way of putting in a nut shell the underlying unhappiness in British Society. This is why I pushed off to France looking for a less harsh society, even if the public toilets here are in a worse state than at Gatwick.

Frederick Phillips, Bergerac, France

what can i say? You are so right.

roger jones, kettering,

I am an Australian and usually have an extended holiday in Europe every three years.

But not in the UK nowadays.

The food is muck and dear, the streets, cafes and public spaces are often dirty. The hotels are a disgrace and their prices outrageous.

Northern Italy, let alone Germany and Swizterland, are better value and cleaner and safer.

I will not forget arriving at Heathrow and walking through the snow and the slush (without a roof over the walkway) to catch a bus to Bath and finding the waiting area disgustingly filthy and with derelicts sleeping on the benches.

You Brits need a relaity check about what is going on.

Peter

Pete Murray, Brisbane, Australia

the traditional British pride and courtesy

Just after the ark landed on Mount Judi this was last seen...

RW, Istanbul,

What an interesting, original and honest piece. It is undoubtedly the case that larger attitudes are evident in small things. I am currently living in Normandy, and coming back to the UK can be a shock, litter everywhere, abuse of strangers, drivers screaming at each other and so on. We have many good qualities as a nation but public service is not one of them.

Christopherblog, Normandy, France

Messy toilets have been an embarrassment in the UK for as long as I can remember. I would suggest the cause is the employment of toilet cleaners who do not know any better and their supervision by similar people who also do not know any better.

Maybe the British plumbing standards authority will finally recognise the pathetic syphon mechanism that's used to flush UK toilets for what it is - something from the 19th century - that's not used anywhere else in the world to my knowledge.

Maybe the airport administrators should visit Changi to understand how it's done and then implement changes.

Maybe the minister responsible should be compelled to answer for the debacle or resign.

John Court, Melbourne, Australia