What is too often forgotten is that today's elderly worked hard to develop the country at a time when the easy money of today was just not available for saving.

And much like the military; having won the war they can now be abandoned to nurse their injuries ... and be cash-strapped.

Maurice Smith, Medway, Kent

How about this for an idea. Instead of the young having a free and easy life they actually should look after their older family members. Rather than shut granny up in a home how about the kids take her into their home, stop them drinking Latte coffee....I live in France and they have respect here.

bob taylor, castelnau, France

Bear in mind that these same old people, in their time, paid contributions to support the original benificeries of the welfare state who had paid nothing at all.

Eric Skelton, Cardiff, Wales

The UK used to have the best private pensions provision in Europe. What happened? Gordon Brown removed the exemption that pension funds could claim on dividend yields - amounting to 5 billion a year. Why is it a surprise the man is surprised by the reaction to abolishing the 10% rate band?

John, Knutsford, Cheshire

Not as simple as it looks. My Dad retired early, lived on debt and now is being paid for by a combination of family and the state. Is he "deserving"? Some young people really struggle. Some work to pay for Uni fees. Others feel deprived if they don't get two holidays a year. No easy answers!

Mrs Geist, London, UK

There is no choice,
Having worked for 40 years and paid our taxes, and continue to do so on our pensions, we have then to sell our homes to pay for care in our old age.
So we pay twice.

Darrell Gomes, Bedford, England

Why is the final decision in this matter being left to a bunch of professional political hacks, many of whom have never worked a single day in commerce, trade or industry? Check the CV of your MP and find out how much they know about the problems the profess to be solving.

KR, Stockport,

Anyone else remember the film 'Soylent Green'?

No longer a problem, looks like it's coming to pass anyway so bring it on early.

Gary, Farnham, UK

Warped generalisation Those with good pensions and equity in their homes are paying and have paid more than their share. I funded my own way through the Open University, toppped up my own pension and am propping up the feckless single parents on state benefits when they could work and pay tax.

sk, East Sussex, England

Born in the 50s? Too young to have been conscripted to war, won't remember the austerity years, teen in the late 60s, free higher education, bought houses for 11grand, sold them for 300, retire at 65. I've respect for my elders, but be honest, you had it easy.

Chris, Leeds,

Encourage people to accept that death is part of a natural process...encourage and legalise voluntary euthanasia for those who would choose not to suffer many years of poor health, especially allow people to opt out of becoming a burden either on their families or society

T. grant, palmwoods, australia

What would happen if you didn't need care in your old age? Say, you died in a car crash, a perfectly healthy 70 year old?

Rebecca, Bognor,

Someone's got their wires crossed, there's no logic. We all pay contributions- NI. -high taxes - VAT. - especially those on lower incomes who can't fiddle or save much for the future. As they get old they need the security of a reasonable pension. No more petty backbiting please, get a little bigger

John P, Westcliff on sea, United Kingdom

If you deny the young access to the property market and pay them pathetic wages, you shouldn't be surprised if they can't afford to keep you in old age.

That will be the price of the Baby Boomers' selfishness.

Ben, London, UK

Brown is clearly out of his mind. Britain is beginning to sound more like a communist led country by the day. Doesn't the average working person have enough on their plate without being taxed AGAIN to fund someone elses retirement?

There's no way in hell Labour are geting a vote from me in 2009!

James, Manchester, UK

I've already paid into a similar system for 37 years.
I believe it's called National Insurance.
If they were to cut the payouts to the undeserving on welfare, they could afford to pay for all sorts of things, that we, the tax payers, deserve.
Don't forget. Socialism is expensive.

Np, Truro, UK

I have no objections to wealthy people paying for their long term care. What I object to is wealthy people paying for both THEIR long term care and long term care of people who have not made their contribution to society.

(Workers NI at the moment is used to pay for care for the elderly)

John Bull, Hull, UK

That will be the same Sir Derek Wanless who was director of Northern Rock with special responsibility for risk. I'm sure his retirement is adequately funded.

Nick, London,

SIMPLE - lower state aid to those who have not contributed. By providing a free service we continue to deter people from saving. The same problem with pensions when one can get £130 pw without making any contributions, why bother saving for a small private pension?

Steve Marchant, Broadhempston, UK

I am a young disabled person who is priced out of the housing market and forced to rent from rich older people (who own multiple properties).

The old man gets paid care from the local council. The woman gets a disabled sticker for her sports car.

They are bleeding us dry.

Flopsy, marylebone, england

I am totally for people to have to sell their homes for their care in old age, why shouldn't they? We come with nothing into this world and we leave with nothing. Let the new generation make their own way and face the consequences of their own actions.

he, Norwich,

Tom Welsh - i think it's you who needs to get a grip on the figures. Compound interest means those who pay later (i.e. after death) will pay more, not those who pay earlier.

And Alice Miles never said that £15K would provide an income of £24K pa. It's a premium. Not everyone goes into care.

Ed W, London,

I had free university education but for the first ten years of my working life I was paying between 30 to 35% basic rate tax. It went down to around 25%. If we want low income tax rates then services have to be paid for in other ways except in Scotland where in his dotage Brown will get free care.

Dave, London, England

A society is supposed to look after its members.
In this case, the family might consider looking after their aging parents.
But that would be impossible in selfish, doomed, Britain.

walter Dithers, vancouver, canada

Bigger pensions would help but Brown screwed that after 1997. The country can only afford to hand out so much before incentives to work evaporate. This grandparent generation is the first ever to take, net, from their grandchildren. One out of 6 graduates working abroad will become five out of 6.

lester, wilts,

"Free Personal care " Not strictly true. In Scotland, the personal care allowance is available at £149 per week. If you live in a residential home for example, you have to pay the balance of the costs from your own funds.

des conway, stirling, scotland

Seems to me the flaw is in the James Lloyd scheme as outlined in the article. Is it really possible to get cover for care for life for £15,000? If it's right , it shows that the statistics must indicate the chances of your having to finance long term care is low. Or would the insurer be taxpayer?

e.r.gosum, Wokingham, UK

I would like to see proposals that allow tax allowances on payment for long term care. People needing a high level of nursing care are often those who can least afford it and at least tax allowances would enable their funds to go further.

Keith H, Tunbridge Wells, UK

The problem is that all governments are massive consumers not investors. All governments have just taxed and spent. The money that has been paid into govt pension schemes is gone. It's a giant pyramid scheme where you continually need more people at the bottom to fund the retirees at the top.

Chris in the USA, Highlands, USA

Am I not already paying into an insurance policy?
Its called National Insurance, it comes out of my wages.

Is someone suggestions that I was mis sold this wonderful solve all problems policy?

I'm shocked...

Dominic, Manchester, England

mmmm...lets see...maybe if tax on EVERYTHING was lowered people could save more for retirement instead of expecting the young to pay for the elderly b/c the gov assumes they will have nothing left for retirement. now there's an idea i don't think labour has tried yet.

Alex, London, UK

There are lots of rich pensioners living in big houses who can afford to pay their heating bills, and a lot of working families with young children who can't. Guess who gets the help?16+17 year olds can't drive, yet still must pay full fare even in FT education - they are more in need of bus passes

Richard, Bexhill, UK

Well I certainly haven't benefited from a generous final salary pension and am expected to live on £120 per week - so I've gone back to work! I've contributed generouslyto health care, libraries, education etc. so am not going to feel guilty about having my free glasses or the odd 'freebie'.

maryhw, folkestone, uk

Alice Miles would be more credible if she had some slight grasp of the relevant facts and figures. So people will pay £15K on retirement - or after they die? But with compound interest, it would have to be far more in the former case. And how would that pay out £24K a year, every year, for decades?

Tom Welsh, Basingstoke,

Of course the young can finance care for the aged who cannot afford to pay themselves or who have no free relatives to handle it. The problem is that in modern Britain the young wives are expected to work to cover the high costs of living so they are not free as they are in other countries.

B J Deller, Marbella, Spain

Another Nulab 'scheme'. Treat 'insurance' as you would treat endowment mortgages.

£15,000 from the estate idea - great.. 90% of the elderly will employ accountants to ensure that they die with nothing. When will governments realise that taxation (all forms)at UK levels breeds avoidance?

michael murphy, brightlingsea, england

i guess we have to pay because tony bliar and gordi brown have totally messed up.ten years of nothingness,blackness,emptiness by labour party.

ebbi britt, valencia,

Why should the young be made to pay for *any* old people? The old either have resources of their own, or bear responsibility for their own plight by failing to provide for their retirement when still earning money - chickens coming home to roost...

John Scott, London,

I'm staggered, again. If I get this right Alice, then the plan is for the layabouts who have ponced off the state through their lives get to be supported in old age. If you happen to have a social conscience, work hard and save, plan for your retirement, then you have to pay to the end. Fair? No!

David L, Brussels,

The obvious point is that the elderly are a growing constituency who are more likely to vote, so oftening sweeteners to this social segment makes good political sense. Economically it's a disaster, but what does Gordon care about the future?

Eric Norton, London,

Polly Toynbee yesterday stated people should give more to restore confidence in the social care, equity. This commentator suggests that the elderly are all well-provided, perhaps cossetted! A rush to solve the Government's self-induced problems! Petrol tax soaring, the state is rich, us poor.

Malcolm Turner, Alsager, England

So, yet another tax from Labour, as if taxes weren't high enough already.
What is the N.I. tax supposed to be for?
Hopefully at the next General Election Labour will be consigned to the political wilderness, they deserve it.

Michael Cawood, Wrexham, Wales, UK

Yes there are poor old people. Alice is not suggesting they are scrapped. But why should today's young - who face massive debt and stress - pay ever more to sustain the expectations of an ageing middle class who think they paid in enough to secure endless societal pay out? The maths no longer works.

Paul, London, UK

I don't know how it works in Britain, but in the States, I'm taxed to educate other people's children, even though I haven't any children of my own. Therefore, I have no qualms about these kids or their parents paying me back when I'm too old or ill to work.

Robbie, San Diego, USA

What smugness! My father was a farm worker from the age of 14. He worked long hours in all weathers for a pittance. For us, no self-owned house, no ponies, no holidays, no fancy cars. Do you really think that money could be put aside for old age? Stop complaining woman!

Jeanette, Ratingen, Germany

It sounds like Panic Stations to me. Total chaos. Reactive crisis management. One good thing about Thatcher, whatever else, is that she stuck to her guns come hell or high water. That stabilised the country and subsequent governments have gradually eroded that stability and the early 70s loom again!

John Morgan, Old Stratford, United Kingdom

The whole purpose of governement is to protect the weakest in society whilst enabling others to protect themselves. It can be argued that Brown caused this by taxing pension schemes and thus denying anyone under the age of thirty the chance to have a final salary pension.

D Fielding, Surrey, uk

Gordon Brown has already raised National Insurance by 10%,

now he wants yet another tax to pay for his useless targets and needless buracracy as opposed to using what we've already given him.

I voted Labour last time. And I do mean LAST time.

Please go gordon, you are an embarassment.

Mark, London,

Surely one idea would be to abolish compulsory retirement at 65? For many people, they do not want to (or can't afford to) retire at such a relatively young age (considering that life expectancy is creeping into the 80s) and can still contribute greatly to working life.

Lisa, London,

Well apparently we do have higher rates of elderly people in poverty than anywhere else in Europe and our pensions are the lowest too. That might be why.

Sarah , Belfast,

Rather than worry about paying for care of the elderly in 2050, why not concentrate on paying for their care this year and next.

Ben, Brighton, East Sussex

Quite right. People are working all their lives and saving for what? Do they really think their taxes cover NHS costs, pensions, care, education etc? We all get old, it's not unexpected. Thus we should expect to pay for it unless too poor to do so. Anything else is economic and political fantasy

Paul Owen, Birmingham, UK

This government seems to be totally reactive. They don't seem to have a long term strategy for anything. That is why Gordon and Alistair are looking round for cash everywhere possible. This looks like another panic promoted money-making scheme.

Alex C, London,

In the article and some comments I detect the "no such thing as society" syndrome. As a community we have a responsibility to care for our elderly. Money is not the only consideration, these individuals worked, fought and cared as the young will have to, some succeded some lost, all deserve help.

mike gee, bournemouth, uk

This consultation is a tactic by Brown to distract from his failures. It is an extension of Labours continual talking about a solution including in their 1997 manifesto whilst coming up with little action. Cameron, a PR man, would probably use the same political tactics to try to dupe the public

David Cartright, Birmingham,

I dont see many poor youggsters. Thay all seem to be able to afford unlimited bottled water and expensive takeaway coffees

John pierpont, London,

There is nothing to be gained from this antagonism between generations. Some people need care, others do not - at any age. Those who do, should be looked after by a civilised society. Old people are not a different species, although some of these comments seem to assume they are.

Mary, Cheltenham, UK

I think it is amazing that we agitate about the so-called unfair inheritance tax (where you get something for nothing and only have to pay 40% tax on it) but won't pay for the care of the elderly. It's shocking. Taking people's houses away (100%, not 40%) to pay for care is far more shocking.

Helen, Fleet, UK

The answer to your question is because it would allow the grandchildren to inherit their university fees and house deposits.

The overlooked problem is that the present system discourages prudent saving and property investment, and encourages benefit culture.

steven fieldfare, cirencester, uk

Born after 1980 and you start your working life in substantial debt, won't be able to afford a house, will have to work into your 70s & will pay ever increasing rates of tax to cover the older generations' failure to look after themselves as they benefited from the state. The Young are angry.

M Bennett, London,

Perhaps making the police, fire brigade and civil servants retire at 67 not at ages between 49 and 60 plus the immediate equalisation of retirement ages at 67 for both men and women would release funds to cover this. I don't see why the young should pay for the healthy to retire early.

Dave, Slough,

42 years of tax and NI , educated 2 kids to degree level and never once complained about it. The spineless youth of today are continuing their ceaseless whinge of " Oh God how are we going to manage, the wrinklies are soo demanding! we can't afford them!" Do what we did ,get on with it.
Neal DEVON

Neal Clark, Plymouth,

The taxpayer is already paying handsomely for the likes of Thatcher, Kinnock, Prescott, Blair and Brown and a thousand other political parasites. They have become rich as a result of their excessive expenses, notoriety and the selling of themselves and still they take from the poor and the young.

Richard George, Bristol, UK

J Lloyd's idea punishes people who work hard & rewards freeloaders. People who work should get a pension & free care, but nothing anyone else. S Barraclough - retirees own 75% of the nation's wealth, due to the low taxes they paid & over-generous benefits. Your generation was greedy & feckless.

Carol, Derby,

a tax that younger working people pay to help pay for care for the elderly and retired - funny I thought that was called National Insurance!!!

Julia, Kent,

Heather from Lancaster - I know plenty of young people who are that poor, too. Only difference is the young have been brought up with debt up to their eyeballs, & are used to putting their essential needs - incl. food, bills etc - on the plastic.

The really poor old will have their care paid for!

Caroline, London,

The honest truth is that is more than enough in the current tax take to provide proper care to those that need it and not just in old age, it's just that Brown and his cronies are spending it hand over fist on no good policies and idealism.

Stephen Dolan, Rickmansworth,

Pay a new tax! Excuse my ignorance but is this tax not already called National Insurance that I've been paying all my working life? Call me heartless but as a worker in my 30s I already know that I will probably have to work till at least 70 before I can retire and Brown has already eaten my pension

Stuart, Glasgow,

This woman has me spitting as usual. 'Old folk' paid all their dues on the promise of 'cradle to grave' care. It was a fraud .
She has been one of those perpetuating the confidence trick and now compounds her guilt.

Dr J Findlater, Carnforth,

Heather, I think they were clear that they understood some old people really are poor.

But the fact is, most old people and even baby boomers have much more wealth than the upcoming generations.

It is "reverse Robin Hood" for the wealthy old to be subsidized by the impoverished young.

Keith S, Winnipeg, Canada

The flaw in James Lloyds' solution to care provision would seem to be "each person with assets (the State would cover those without) would be asked to make a voluntary payment".

Surely this will mean that those with savings pay, those without get care provision totally free of charge.
Why save?

Malcolm Williamson, WGC, UK

Appalling. A significant number of OAPs can’t even afford the council tax and the heating bills. Wake up! The English have the worst pensions in Europe. It’s scandalous. The only thing that a number of these people have is their homes – and these should be sold off to pay for care?

ED, Paris,

My son is working hard for his degree to the extent of taking on a role of real paid professional work througfhout the entire summer break. He needs to, with a 5 year loan hanging over him. The elderly are lucky to have a generation willing to get stuck in to support both them and our country.

Boris, Belgravia, London

"..Should a primary school teacher on a salary of £20,000 pay to help..." Oh, nice one, Alice! My generation and your parents', not only paid taxes at far higher rates than you do today, but we also fed, clothed and educated you as well as paying our NI contributions for our old age. Gratitude?

S. Barraclough, Huddersfield, W. Yorkshire

The baby boomer generation is the most selfish this planet has ever known. Free university education, massive house price inflation, gold plated public sector pensions, retirement at 60. Now they agitate for the free care they wouldn't pay for when it was their parents who were old.

chris, CARDIFF,

Don't worry about 'Lords and ex-prime Ministers' they all are well provided for, and there are only a few of them compared to the rest of the many elderly who struggled through much harder times to provide for your generation, without much chance to lay up a golden nest egg!

S. Barraclough, Huddersfield, W. Yorkshire

Quite laughable, The young pay a tax contribution for old agers!!! The majority in our cool young modern society continue to ponse off their parents for everything,
with no age limit as to when they are expected to stand on their own two feet .

brendan Buffini, maidstone, England

As a 70 year old I entirely agree with Alice. It is not as though old age creeps up unexpectedly.
I personally do not wish to be "cared for".
When I am no longer able to live an independent life so be it .
Is life so vital it must be lived at the expense of others ?

Peter Bolt, Redditch, UK

You do realise that some 'old folk' are as poor as poor can be right? I know ones that have no money at all. No holidays. No days out. No nights out. No meals out. No nothing. Ever.

Heather, Lancaster,

The profession of the commercial, political and social ignorance this article demonstrates should be a criminal offence.

David Williams, Eastnor, England

Alice Miles is back on the ball. It is clear that government policies have nothing to do with what the populance wants. I agree with Alice " Why should the young be taxed" Is Prime Minister Brown and the MPs going to pay the tax levy???

Jim Wills, Brisbane, Australia

"Those who did join, would be covered, for life, for whatever care they needed." Oddly enough, that's what Labour promised in 1946! The law is that where the primary need is a health need, then the NHS must pay for all - it's ignored of course, but check the 1999 Coughlan Judgement.

David Gooch, Los Angeles, United States