Chris, London. Of course the private sector pays the public sector pensions. GDP measures economic activity, not profit or wealth- making. The private sector pays all civil service wages, therefore all their pension contributions too. And Healthcare and education are not free! What's tax for?

james rogers, ST ALBANS, uk

Fred. Tax is deferred on payments into pension schemes.

Tim, Haywards Heath,

The idea that the public sector is supported by the private sector is wrong. Public sector output contributes to GDP, and public sector workers pay tax. It would cost a family with two school-age children £22,000 per year to replace free healthcare and education; proof that output is non-zero.

Chris, London,

Your comments are absolutely right, however artificially creating all these extra millions of jobs, then sugar coating them with unaffodable indexed linked tax free pensions for life keeps the unemployment figures artificially low and lots of Labour suppoters for life.
DEMOCRACY- what a joke!

Duncan Gormley-Lake, Bournemouth, Dorset

Your comments are absolutely right, however artificially creating all these extra millions of jobs, then sugar coating them with unaffodable indexed linked tax free pensions for life keeps the unemployment figures artificially low and lots of Labour suppoters for life.
DEMOCRACY- what a joke!

Duncan Gormley-Lake, Bournemouth, Dorset

Thank God, a voice of reason in the corrupt undemocratic same old Labour wilderness.
For starters get rid of the 800 plus useless, ineffectual artificially created job centres.
In many respects, this is the Governments largest and one of the most costly Quangos.

Duncan Gormley-Lake, Bournemouth, Dorset

Just give me the private sector pay then. Why don't you play your game with the high income earners: Why are large city bonues tax-exempt when paid into pensions? Why not reform the state pension system? Because you don't want that, you just want to go after public sector employees, Mrs Thatcher.

Fred Caprivi, Manchester,

Just have a state pension related to earnings.
Most private pensions are swallowed up in fee's so 40% of your pot goes to finance companies anyway. Having a go at NHS and civil servants will not improve private pensions.
Will you swap your journalist pay for my nhs pay?? I think not.

ian, durham, england

If folks in the private sector invested the extra salary they receive instead of spending it they would have similarly large pensions. Total pay is pretty even but the public sector enforces saving through its pension scheme. Its about choice and if you make a bad choice thats your fault.

Peter G, London, UK

Well said...Its about time those in the public sector opened their eyes and tried life in the real world,a world that doesn't offer gold plated pensions and benefits packages that most of us can only dream of.Hear hear I say, close the public sector pension scheme ,every one of them!

dasilva, manchester,

A 23% increase in public sector workers is a measure of their inefficiency. The government must immediately
1. Raise the retirement age to 65 .
2. Ensure all staff are appraised against written objecives; consistent underperformers fired.
3. Appoint mangement consultants paid only on results .

R G James, Brassschaat, Belgium

In relation to the high level of public sector employees in Cambridge. This may well be explained by the presence of a fairly large university that you may have heard of. Obviously a complete waste of taxpayers money.

Angela, Cambridge,

'Cut pension benefits and there will be no reason to take a public sector job!' Tony, London

What... apart from the 'flexitime', opportunities for 'job-sharing' (i.e shirking) & the far lower levels of stress involved? If I insisted on these perks and the equivalent workload I'd be unemployed.

Tanya, Derby,

AM, shame on you as a former health commentator attacking health care workers. If you take out the top 10% of public pensions - judges, politicians, etc. You are left with a group of people whose average pay is £14000 per year, 66% of this is hardly going to get me to St Tropez is it?

ian, durham, england

Paul, London,
Retired public sector workers have their pensions paid by the contributions of current public sector workers

Who do you think pays for the current public sector workers? In case you haven't noticed public servants don't actually produce anything. I pay their salaries from my tax.

John, Reading, uk

To stop the bickering there should only be the state pension, maybe then we'd be interested in making sure there it paid well enough. Those who move jobs regularly won't lose out, I remember being paid back some contributions because I hadn't been at the job long enough. I've got 3 years at another!

Terry, Milton Keynes, UK

If Cameron is really serious about creating pensions equity he can start by committing the next Tory government to reversing Brown's annual £5bn raid on pension funds. So far he has refused to do so.....why? He's promised to maintain gold-plated public sector pensions after all.

Myles, Glasgow,

Rather than using the public sector as scapegoats you should be asking why people in the private sector have been ripped off by their companies and the city. It is just as well I have a public sector pension and my wife's is with Equitable Life.

Andrew, Cambridge, UK

Isn't it the case that the 'pension contributions' made by today's public servants go straight towards paying those pensions of the retired public servants, therefore in order to maintain the scheme, the Uk will need more and more public servants?

Otherwise known as a 'pyramid' scam?

Penny, London,

My firm is going through a VR excercise at the moment. We've lots of ex public sector types here (workshy). Their VR packages are VAST compared to those on standard company terms, mostly becuase of their gold plated pensions. The Civil service is lazy, incompetent and bloated.

Neil, Newcastle Upon Tyne, England

Paul, "public sector pensions are paid for by current public sector workers" - who do you think pays their wages? Our taxes! Public sector pay is just a circular argument for those who create real wealth.

Stuart, Cambridge,

Local Government pensioners don`t get two thirds of final salary- unlike most private sector bank staff. They get the number of years service related to an 80th of their final pay. And it`s contributory and what`s more the level of employers contribution is nothing like as high as private sector.

Les, Southampton,

"Cut pension benefits and there will be no reason to take a public sector job!"

Rubbish!

Unlike 30 years ago, public sector jobs pay, by and large, as well as private sector jobs and are certainly lower-stress. The pension that public sector employees get gives them a HUGE advantage.

Brian Abbott, Sunderland,

Given the vast increase in public sector jobs (which could be made up by anyone swilling money around like water) these figures should be drawn in when comparing employment levels - so essentially we're about 500,000 real jobs down on 1997 given the bulge in the public sector

Andy Iddon, London, UK

For the mal-informed - the public sector workers pension scheme is actually a Ponzi scheme - and we are now seeing how that works out in the long run. Standby for a serious downturn in your pensions.

Charles Dowie, Epworth, UK

The problem is solely that the govt. spent contributions as income and did not treat them as an investment. Public service is poorly paid for the vast majority-and a reasonable retirement is the only reason for the job. Private people want high salaries +want public servants to be poor

David, Essex, UK

When the cost of public sector pensions is calculated is any account taken of the money that the pensioners will put straight back into the economy in the form of tax, direct and indirect, and spending generally-or is it assumed pensioners stick all their money under their beds?

Mike, Lydney, UK

Jobs aren't for life in the Public Sector. HMRC/DWP are having to make thousands of headcount cuts. Salaries are below their private sector equivalents and working hours are getting longer. Cut pension benefits and there will be no reason to take a public sector job! So who will run your services?

Tony, London,

Rubbish. Firstly public sector pensions are not paid for by private sector workers. Retired public sector workers have their pensions paid by the contributions of current public sector workers. That's how the system works. And the job for life? Have you not read the news lately?

Paul, London,

I work full time (37 hours p.w.) for HMRC. My salary is £15155 per annum. My pension is worked out using the following formula. Number of years in HMRC x 1/80 of the final salary. I have 16 years service so my pension will stand at £3031p.a. Not the 2/3rds pay you are stating.

John, St Austell,

Dave in Manchester.

Thats not the case, I got made redundant a few months ago from a private sector job and have now got a new job in the public sector which pays less than my previous one even though its at a much higher level (and below private market rate)& I get no bonus payments or extra leave

Richard, Sheffield, UK

Actually Jamie, if you investigate, you will find it is the Labour government that has created the conditions in which private sector pensions have been destroyed. Removal of tax relief on dividends, relaxing surplus rules etc.
All done by a public sector completely immune from the consequences.

Rose, Stirling, UK

Madoff's Ponzi scheme netted £50 billion. This Ponzi scheme is going to cost £1 trillion.
Public sector workers may rightly shout "unfair", but the alternative is a collapse of UK government finances - and no pensions at all for them.

Dave, Slough,

The average public sector pension may well be £6000pa. What do you think the average is in the private sector ? "Average" is simply maths, and meaningless. What is typical for same years of service and retirement age? Repayment of contributions by lump sum =non contributory., also never mentioned.

D.L. Stephens, York, England

"They retire at 60 on two thirds of their final salary." I have seen so many journalists repeat this, but it is just plain wrong. Perhaps journalists get these pensions, but public sector pensions come in at one eightieth of final salary for every full year worked.

David, Southampton, England

Over a quarter of council tax receipts are used to meet pension liabilities. These figures are going to get a lot worse and massive cuts in council services will be required. This will present society with unpleasant choices, social services and education or pensions. A recipe for social unrest!

John, Manchester,

Union officials always manage to slip in the idea that public service folk are 'extremely hard working' whenever they discuss pensions. Everybody else, including most public sector workers, regards council employment as a pretty cushy number

John Ledbury, Kings Lynn, England

Job for life?
Do you know how many times departments in the public sector get re-organised, reshuffled, or whatever the current euphamism is. Don't make me laugh.

Emma, Chatham, UK

Perhaps they should start with the way high earners in the public sector have their pensions valued. This is done on a basis way so as to give a result below an open market valuation and is designed so that they do not have to pay tax on their pension pots unlike those in the private sector who do.

N Reed, London, UK

"These are people in jobs for life." A fair proportion of so-called public sector workers are on fixed term contracts. When the public funding runs out, the post ends without the final pay-off that often accompanies termination in the private sector. There are also no large bonuses en-route.

Alex, Durham, UK

Final salary schemes for employees are closing every where but not for directors. BT anounced a degradation of its scheme for employees but left its directors scheme (1/30 of final salary for each year) alone. Ben Verwayen recently left after six years as CEO- his pension: £350,000 per annum!

Wim, Rotherham,

As roger says pensions average £6000, i have £7500 after 40 years service. GOLD PLATED? Every promotion i achieved i had to work 6 years before the top increment was paid. Over 40 years we paid every penny of our pensions.

mark, taunton, uk

If proper provision for pensions is not made by employers and employees jointly, the result will be that taxpayers (the same people) will have ultimately to fund social security benefits for the aged. It would be prudent to ensure that everyone pays towards the same fair scheme.

R Lindsey, Chesterfield,

A right winger stoking the politics of envy! If ever there was a demonstration that capitalism is not working it is the comments made in this item. The fact industry is prepared to dump its pension protection for its workforce shows of lack of care and concern which government need not follow

mike gee, bournemouth, uk

This old chestnut always pops up at times of economic downturn. Yet the average local government pension is only around £3000 per annum, as many workers are female, part-time and have had maternity breaks. In times of plenty, people look down on public sector workers and at their low salaries

Richard, Bexhill, UK

You are spectacularly ill informed Alice. Most public service pension schemes are based on 1/80 salary for each year of service, to a maximum of half pay. Many retire at 65 not 60. Employee contributions are pretty much in line for final salary schemes in the private sector, which still exist.

dave, liverpool,

Neither can we maintain the best welfare state in Europe!

James, Leicester,

"theme of criticism" - yes, all over the media. what a coincidence! demonising one particular group ahead of imposing measures which would otherwise appear unacceptable, is a treasured weapon of spin.
PS, after 20 years, my nurses' pension works out at less than £2,000 per YEAR. gold-plated??

anna, bournemouth, uk

To the psychiatric nurse, you are but right but here is the problem. Whilst the issue over public sector pensions has been known for many years it was small enough to ignore and private sector pay was greater than in the public sector. Labour has now created another buble waiting to burst.

Max, Redditch, England

Britain wants us to work 65 hours a week and have either a minimum state pension or take out a private pension that might go bankrupt before one retires. Back to the Middle Ages or when people were shipped as slave labour to Australia. Life expectancy will fall and that will save the cash shortfall!

Robert Winter, San Sebastian, Spain

Frank Upton - my partner cannot afford a pension, but apparently she cannot afford to fund local authority workers' pensions, through the council tax.

Is that fair?

Burgeoning TV licensing tax revolt already under way. Next will be Council Tax.

Jeremy Poynton, Frome, England

What people do forget is that those who work in the public sector get paid on average 8% less than equivalent jobs in the private sector to counter the fact that our pensions are higher. Would commentators be happier if we suddenly all got paid more so the Civil Service pay bill dramatically increas

drew, Whitehall,

Robert of Hull, you didn't do the full 40 years to get the 40/60ths of your final salary. Also, I guess you did not get to the level you might have had you stayed. If you had worked 40 years, you probably would be on a pension of £30k. That's not too bad!

Chuck Key, Shrewsbury,

Local authority pension schemes are properly funded - mainly by us, of course, but they are not just a blank cheque drawn on future taxpayers, like the irresponsible NHS, Civil Service and state retirement benefit schemes.

Frank Upton, Solihull,

Surley this is all totally unsustainable with the real risk of social unrest. We now have the possibility of a two tier society, those with secure jobs and safe pensions and those who could face real hardship and poverty in old age. This is dangerous for our society.

Andy, Brighton, UK

I am at eacher and have just retired afer working for 35 years on a pension of £7,000. For much of that time teachers pay lagged behind the private sector and I have never had a christmas bonus or a company car as many in the private sector had. Private sector workers should have saved those bonuses

sheila, LEICESTER,

Wow.. and they say socialists employ the politics of envy!!

Shug, Glasgow, Scotland

James london & Tim, you don't understand your pension then. on top you get your lump sums. total is equivelant to 2/3rds scheme.
someone in a 60ths scheme, after tax free cash then gets approx 50% pension income of final salary. yours IS the same.

Richard, Northampton, uk

Trouble is the public sector used to have lower wages but better pensions than the private sector. The wages have come into line but the pensions haven't. Lets face it the country can't afford gold plated final salary pensions on this scale. same wages,same holiday,same retirement age same pensions

Nick Sheen, worcester,

Public sector workers generally have lower paid jobs than those in the private sector. The pension is one of the few perks. Either pay more inthe first place or find a fair solution. I will have worked as a poorly paid teacher for 36 years when I retire. I won't be best pleased to be cheated now.

J Goldsmith, Folkestone, England

Robert from Hull, yes £10,000 per year is to much for a mere 25 years service. This suggests you retired in your late forties, meaning you will receive your £10k for around 40 years.

It would take a very large defined contribution pension to match this.

Rodney, London,

In Uganda the place everybody wants to work is the Aid distribution authortity as it is totally corrupt and you can earn great money.
In England it may go the same way with the public sector.
Everybody knows that it you work for the council you are set up.

It shouldnt be so.

will morris, Manchester, UK

instead of complaining that public sector pensions are so good. Why aren't people asking why private sector pensions are so bad? lousy returns, administration fees, companies dipping into the pot to fund thier business. Paying out as little as possible while taking in as much as they can.

IainA, Edinburgh,

How much has Brown robbed from private pensions since he got his grubby hands on the UK economy eleven years. £100billion, £ 200billion? More? the true figure has yet to be published and the private secotor are told to work for longer and save more while we keep the public sector in luxury.

D Case, Newquay,

Retiring shortly after 35+ years in Educ. & health my pension will be just over £7,000 . To read some of the comments made you would think that I'd never made a penny contribution to this instead of the % of salary that has been deducted every month. Job for life? I can be sacked like anyone else.

Alan, Durham, UK

I work in the private sector, and am poor because I have to pay so much tax in order for the public sector staff to have 2x the holidays I get, better pay and great pensions. Cut their benefits to the level I get and maybe my tax bill will drop.

Dave, Manchester,

There must be a cap on these pensions. All these inflated salaries result in larger pensions. How much money does a retired person need, £20k , £50k? The Tax Payer should never have to pay a sum greater than an MP's salary to some no longer contributing to the country.

A Morgan, Poole, UK

James and Tim, don't forget the large lump sum you get on retirement

Graham, Stanford le Hope,

Public sector workers (I was one myself before leaving in disgust at the waste and self-serving) always complain about how hard done by they are. This is simply not true. The public sector an expensive, inefficient, self-serving liability that we all have to pay for. GET OUT OF THE TROUGH!

Peter, London,

The 1/80th schemes generally have a cash lump sum in addition - approximately equivalent to a 1/60th (2/3 after 40 years) scheme.

Nick Clarke, Leughton Buzzard,

I have worked for the NHS for the last 20 years. I am on a very low wage, under £7 an hour. I have never had a pay increase that mached inflation! That is a pay cut every year, and you say I'm over paid. Most of us are being contracted out, so there is your job for life. Don't belive all you read

David, Lincolnshire,

We shouldn't have to pay over the odds for public sector pensions. It's not relevant to talk about private sector pensions and bosses' salaries because at the end of the day we're not paying for their mistakes. But we'll have to pay for unfunded public sector schemes and the burden's getting bigger.

Bob Nimmbus, Bridgend, Wales

"..... public sector workers must accept that well-paid retirements have gone for ever":

Whose retirements specifically, Alice?

I retired early from teaching on grounds of ill health after more than 25 years in the classroom. My pension amounts to less than £10,000 per year. Is that too much?

Robert, Hull, UK

Get your facts right, Ms Miles. As at teacher, my pension will be 1/80 multiplied by no of years service multiplied by average salary in last five years. I don't know who is getting two thirds of their final salary.

James, London, UK

What a good article

George, London,

Time to drag the snouts out of the public trough and an end to the Mediteranean cruises and the mobile homes. And yes! I could live on £6,000 quite adequately.
No sympathy, payback time!!!

Merc, Shrewsbury, England

I have every sympathy with public sector workers fighting to defend their pensions when I read elsewhere in today's Times that " up to 40 per cent of private-sector pension pots are swallowed up in fees".

Malcolm Williamson, WGC, UK

The final sentence is the most chilling. Bias in the electoral system means that labour can win a general election with perhaps a 33% share of the vote. They will ensure this by rewarding their client state even if it means the rest of us are screwed. This has to be the most divisive government ever

James, Cheltenham, GLOS

Jamie has it wrong. Under (Tory) law, once a scheme was over-funded (those were the days) there HAD to be a holiday or increased benefits or punitive tax. Under Lab law there are now v few private sector pensions, and a "cap" which doesn't apply for MPs and the bloated public sector.

Jan, Sussex, UK

Adding to the comments from Lancaster, that NHS consultants retired before 2003 also had pensions based on i/80 of the final salary multiplied by the number of years of service in NHS.

Sam, Altrincham, UK

One point everyone neatly ducks is that the Civil Service Pension is deferred pay. So cutting the pension benefits will mean raising pay! And having just heard of three people made redundant, I have my doubts about a job for life! Lastly this generous pension averages £6,000 a year!

Roger, Oxford, England

Let's remind the CBI that the only reason public sector schemes now look so good is that private companies fouled up their own private final salary schemes to make a quick profit (remember those "contribution holidays") then abandoned their staff to the vagaries of the market.

Jamie Gilmour, Bolton, UK

Yet another Ponzi fraud. It's not clear from your article though who should be going to jail for this one. Is it the government leaders or the union leaders?

David Hughes, Aalsmeer, The Netherlands

Civil servants retiring on two-thirds of their final salary? Wrong. The standard civil service rate is 1/80 of final salary for each year of service, meaning that most civil servants are retiring on well under half final salary. OK, maybe that looks pretty good these days, but don't exaggerate it.

Tim, Lancaster, UK

In 1968 I started a miserably paid job as a psychiatric nurse, working with people shunned by society, but with a modest but guaranteed income on retirement. I achieved national average pay in my last year. “I wouldn’t do your job for any money”, everyone said, and now they’ve come over all envious.

Trofim, Birmingham, UK