Gerard Baker
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How do you like your jihadi? Is yours the avenging physician sort; self-immolating practitioner of weird medicine outside nightclubs and airport terminals who hopes to take hundreds of innocents with him on his journey to Paradise?
Or do you prefer the voice of sweet reason, the heroic freedom fighter turned politician, who magnanimously leaps into a hostage drama and helps to free your innocent journalist from his captors?
Not difficult, is it?
We’ve had an exercise in good-cop, bad-cop with our Islamist friends in the past week. In London and Glasgow, the nutters – the scale of their murderous ambition matched only by their ineptitude with a car a mobile phone and a tankful of petrol – tried the explosive, take-no-prisoners approach to persuading the West to do their bidding Over in Gaza, they’re a bit more sophisticated. They’ve figured out that, at least when it comes to Europeans rather than Israelis, the direct approach is less effective than the power of high-profile good deeds. Hamas prefers the take-prisoners-and-then-generously-let-them-go approach.
Try as they may the nutters will never really win what Gordon Brown calls the battle for hearts and minds. True, they’ll get a good hearing from the assorted crowd of self-loathing media panjandrums and Labour MPs who will evenhandedly say: “It’s quite wrong to blow up women in London nightclubs, but we shouldn’t forget about the suffering of the people of Iraq and Afghanistan.” True, they’ll also get treated with kid gloves by the politically correct lobby, who will insist that, however else we describe them, we must never call them Muslims, since they’re not the face of that peaceable religion.
But fortunately most British people aren’t sophisticated enough to buy this sort of casuistry. They think they know a homicidal maniac when they see one. The philosophy they adhere to was best captured by the magnificent John Smeaton, the BAA baggage handler turned have-a-go hero in Scotland, who, when asked by a TV interviewer what message he had for the terrorists, said: “This is Glasgow – we’ll just set about you.”
With Hamas, however, whose worldview and geopolitical ambitions are exactly the same as those fireball physicians, it’s all very different. Thanks to their efforts in the past few months, they are the stabilisers, the people who have brought peace to Gaza. Their transformation into popular heroes was completed this week when they pulled off the release of a kidnapped BBC man. The whole world now loves them.
What I especially admired about the choreography of the Alan Johnston release was the way Ismail Haniya and his friends had clearly learnt the lessons of Britain’s recent little hostage crisis in Iran; play the magnanimous saviour for the TV cameras and you’ll have them eating out of your hand. Unlike Tehran, Hamas made sure not to commit the mistake of crass overkill, and avoided sending Johnston off with a goody bag and a poly-cotton suit. We are left in awe of their magnanimity and a renewed respect for their role as pivotal players in the Middle East drama.
Funny isn’t it, how, when the US or British governments do anything they claim is good we always assume there’s some ulterior motive? They foil a terrorist plot and the world’s media note with heavy irony the coincidence of a president’s or prime minister’s flagging approval ratings. But when Hamas pulls a stunt like the one it managed this week, we’re all transfixed, lost in innocent admiration at the sheer humanity of these people. Our credulity is mocked further because we really ought to know that this latest incident is straight from the Hamas playbook – doing little works of charity and economic efficiency in Gaza and the West Bank, the Palestinian equivalent of making the trains run on time to further their bloodcurdling big objectives.
I’m missing something important in conflating these two events this week, you will probably object. We in the West will never accept the theocratic motive of the Islamists. We will never acquiesce in their lunacies – the intolerance of homosexuality, the degradation of women, the forced conversion of the infidels. But we should at least listen to their anger and frustration about what is happening in the Middle East. We hate the suicide bombers and their so-called theology, but we have to understand that there is something justifiable in the anger that they feel about Iraq and Palestine – and it is this that makes Hamas so popular in Gaza.
This is a nice distinction we make in the West that means nothing to the followers of the Muslim Brotherhood, of which Hamas is a member and to which al-Qaeda is affiliated. They see removing America, Israel and Britain from the Middle East as the necessary first step towards global Islamic theocracy. But let’s indulge it, at least for a while and ask, do they have a point?
On Iraq, I’ve no doubt that the American excesses of Abu Ghraib and the occasional lethal clumsiness of US forces have fuelled resentment. But that is largely because it is these peripheral facts on which we in the West focus so much of our attention, and they distract us from the central narrative.
Which is this: the Americans went into Afghanistan and Iraq with the aim of stopping one bunch of Muslims from killing another. They are still there in both countries today performing precisely this mission.
Now it may be that history will judge this an epically stupid thing to have done; that, in the end, the great claims some of us made that the Middle East could be dragged out of its medievalist obscurantism were pie in the sky. But we really have to stop indulging the Islamists’ propaganda that today’s carnage in Iraq is the result of American aggression. It isn’t – it is the result of Islamist aggression.
Then, of course, there’s Israel. The plight of the Palestinian people is heartrending. A just settlement, and preferably a two-state solution with secure and sustainable borders, is essential.
All that is true. But we need to be much less naive about Hamas. That is not its real goal. Its members want to destroy Israel and wage war on the West. Just as we buy into the Islamist propaganda on Iraq, so we risk signing up for the Hamas propaganda in Palestine. Do we really think our acceptance of their leadership will be treated by them as an act of magnanimity on our part? Or will they see it as another critical triumph on the path to their ultimate victory?
Let’s never lose sight of a simple chilling fact that unites the suicidal maniacs in Britain and the sweet reasonable hostage-saviours in Gaza. Hamas was the big winner this week. That makes us all, whether we’re sipping beers in pavement cafés in Israel, boarding planes in Glasgow or out for a ladies’ night in the Haymarket, much, much less safe.
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You forget, america went into afghanistan because the Taliban refused to prevent Bin Laden from having a safe haven in afghanistan. You also forget historical fact. The United States refused to allow that shipload of world War 2 displaced jews from entering the US. the went to palestine, foundered the ship on the shores of the country and thus started the unlimited and uncontrolled migration of European jews and the unleashing of jewish terrorism that continues today. the Palestinians are refugees iin their own country. What would be the reaction of Americans or British to the imposition of large numbers of any other people on their shore who then proceeded by force of arms to take over the whole country? Maybe British and Aamerican citizens are too "civilized to retaliate. I am old enough to remember that during the last world war resistance fighters from France and saboteurs indulged in the same activity that the Palestinian Freedom Fighters; of which Hamas is a part are the same.
Alvin Cummins, toronto, Ontario, Canada
"Have we forgotten our diplomats, policemen and soldiers murdered in cold blood by the Jewish terrorists, creating Israel on the ruins of Mandate Palestine? "
Your afactual, ahistorical look at the King David Hotel bombing by Zionist extremists vis-a-vis the THOUSANDS of acts of terrorism that have occured and still occur at the hands of jihadists only reveals your one sided view of history and politics.
In court, convicted murderers are not rewarded for capturing and then releasing innocent people. Hamas are terrorists and thugs. There will be no peace, no stopping of the bloodshed between Israelis and Palestinians when an organization like this is in charge -- especially when Hamas is defended. A peaceful two state solution won't be achieved with Hamas or any other group that rejects the right of Israel to exist.
Adam Amir, Gainesville, FL, USA
Thank you, Mr Baker, for your even handed accuracy.
AE, NJ,
Good piece of reality journalism, Gerard.
Next week Hamas will allow the Red Cross access to the kidnapped soldier Shalit, Hezbollah will allow Red Cross access to the kidnapped soldiers they hold, Jeremy Bowen will become a Moslem convert.......
PS It has just been announced that as many as 8% of Imams in the UK are born here with English as their first language.
Wake up UK!
Dennis , Manchester, UK
Well,in this crazy world Hamas will gain points for undoing his sins. The world must not compromise with those that use violence as policy.
Roi , LaLa Land,
can no one see beyond the nose on their face - the Hamas are so transparent. they are a TERRORIST organization. they murder and terrrorise their own people. Wake up the WESTERN world, before it is too late.
sterling, Tel-Aviv,
Yes the Palestinians are suffering; no one denies that fact. But the question as to why they are suffering also has an unequivocal, simple answer. Their leadership both Hamas and Fatah have chosen terrorism and violence as form of conflict resolution. Their society has chosen to grant idol or martyr status to terrorists who have tried or succeeded in murdering innocent men, women, and children. The choice of terrorism -- or in Islamic fundamentalists terms, Jihad -- has distorted the murdering of innocents into holy acts.
The next time the you and the world media parades pictures of Palestinian suffering, consider the reasons why. Their society has chosen violence and destruction, and Israel has every right and duty to defend ourselves from it.
J de Metz, westcliff on Sea, UK
Very well thought out. Thank you for your insight.
eyu, greenwood village , USA/CO
Gerald Baker, as usual, is correct and forthright. Hamas and their ilk are the real threat, not a bunch of losers in London and Glasgow. Sadly, the British public and the "bleeding heart" set (led by the BBC) much rather blame the USA and Israel (both worthy of some condemnation) than admit the real ambitions of Hamas, Syria, Iran and their respective allies.
NJK, Budapest,
While most in the States love and admire you Brits and have willingly fought to the death along side of you ( and likely will again), you have the most incredible capacity for self delusion. An ungodly force of Muslims have launched a world wide Jihad against the West mixing politics, ambition and religion in order to mobilize the Muslim masses. Their objective is our complete defeat and the installation of Sharia in your country and mine alongside a new Caliphate stretching from the Hindu Kush through the Middle East, North Africa and Europe. Like it or not, they have declared war on the West, and we who live here, regardless of our political or religious perspective, have two choices - fight or surrender to their demands. There is no compromise because these Jihadists are totally committed and condone no alternatives. 70 years ago, Britain faced the same set of choices with the Nazis and initially chose appeasement. Please don't make the same mistake twice.
Martin, Miami, USA/Florida
Sir,
The unbalanced PC treatment of Zionism, or should it be "Jewism," as opposed to the political perversion of Islam that is commonly referred to as "Islamism" is quite revealing.
Have we forgotten our diplomats, policemen and soldiers murdered in cold blood by the Jewish terrorists, creating Israel on the ruins of Mandate Palestine?
It appears that we too, Blairs 51st State, are becoming a nation of Israel 1ST'rs.
When we forget our innocent dead, opportunistically siding with Israel, a state which has locations named after terrorists - who has won the propaganda war, not just this week but for decades?
SC, London, United Kingdom
"We had populations inflamed to a high degree; we had extremists on both sides ready to work up and provoke incidents; we had considerable quantities of arms which were by no means confined to regularly organised forces. Therefore, it was essential that we should quickly reach a conclusion, so that this painful and difficult operation of transfer might be carried out at the earliest possible moment and concluded as soon as was consistent, with orderly procedure, in order that we might avoid the possibility of something that might have rendered all our attempts at peaceful solution useless." - Neville Chamberlain
It didn't work then and it won't work now.
chris, palo alto,
Mr Livesy,
Our experience of the BBC is that they are scared of anyone from an 'ethnic minority' even when they are in the majority and call the shots, especially if they are a Muslim.
john, london,
Hamas wants to destroy Israel. They aren't too fussed about us either way. Therefore nothing justifies their actions. Does anyone seriously think they were only formed "because of Iraq"?
Ben, York,
That a victory by Hamas in the last Palastinian elections was unfortunate for the West is undeniable. That the West has done a poor job of managing things in the mid-east is also undeniable. We let Arrafat's Fatah crowd lead us around by the nose while they grafted the money we gave them away from their people.
When election time came around, the Palistinians, sick of corruption and the politics of personal enrichment, elected the only other game in town. The Bush administration, by walking away from the Mid-east peace process, deserves a good bit of blame for this situation. Through a consistantly ineffective (incompetant) foreign policy they have turned a very difficult situation into an impossible one.
I am reminded of a line written about another resident of the Mid-east a long time ago.
"Jesus wept."
Jim Walton, Washington, DC
To Tony,
We, Muslims, don't hate your religion. We believe in Jesus more that what you do. He is mentioned in Koran to be the honorable and noble messenger of God. But we hate you opposition to his massage. Do you think that you can convince me that God and Jesus legalised the same-sex marriage! Did God and Jesus urged people to exercise adultery and to attack Muslim countries and kill thousands of civilians and rape children, like the Iraqi girl Abeer! You attacked Iraq and find no kind of mass destruction weapons? you have come there for free oil, but the fact is that the price of the oil is being paid by the blood of the American soldiers. Secondly, you are angry because Hamas freed Alan but I don't believe that you were angry when the Israeli army killed the English peace Activist Tomas and the American Rachel and many others.
Samuel , Gaza, Palestine
Baker is angry because Hamas forced the Fatah-backed gangsters to freed Alan but he was not angry when the Israeli army killed the English peace activist Tomas and the American Rachel and several other peace activists; he was not angry when Israel hit the TV armored vehicle of the Reuters in Gaza.
Ismail , Gaza, Palestine
If true political, social and religous freedom is to survive, it is time for Western societies to look as Islam with unbiased eyes. After conferring with Islamists on multiple online forums and watching the testimonies of English-speaking suicide bombers, I believe that Islam is a luxury the West can no longer afford. As a full-blown Trekkie, I would love to live in a world where a person is judged solely by their actions and not their adherence to a particular ideology or religion. Unfortunately, after hearing the 7/7 ringleader talk blithely about conquering other countries, and reading about Islamist groups on university campuses using innocuous names such as "peace group" to describe themselves and then describing "disbelivers" as animals my view on Islam has been profoundly altered. The global sate that is within their minds would make the Iranian system look very mild in comparison. The ease of which this ideology has captured the hearts and mind does not reassure me.
Craig M, Brisbane, Australia
Let's not forget that the last 10 years or so of bombings and terrorist atrocities have largely happened since the West has had a large military presence in the Middle East (i.e. since the first Gulf War).
I understood that Al-Quaeda's main objective was the removal of said forces - the opposite of which has in fact occured.
Despite the Islamists' crude methods, I still believe that the main reason for their hatred of the West is our presence in their lands. Our nightlcubs and businesses were not being bombed in the mid 80s after all.
Alex McGregor, Plymouth, UK
Fantastic article, I agree entirely - Moreover, where as the Democracies in the West are by and large able to be scrutinised by their only free press this basic freedom generally does not exist in the Middle East. Consequently, the rulers are publicly perceived in the manner to which they dictate.
Joe, London, UK
What with Guantanamo ,and Extraordinary Rendition ,and torture ,and detentions without trial , and an illegal war and blood on our hands, not to mention that wall in Palestine, all over a minority of "terrorists" , it is a tad arrogant to be so damn cynical.No wonder there will never be peace.
M McGregor, Tunbridge Wells, Kent
Had they killed the journalist, they would have been bloodthirsty terrorists.
Now that they have freed him, they are bloodthirsty terrorists.
This may be the first time in the last 40 years that the Palestinians, unfortunately through Hamas, won the 'propaganda war'. How could they, with half of the Anglo Saxon press owned by zionists?
John, Montreal, Canada
Glen got in there first but to say "the Americans went into Afghanistan and Iraq with the aim of stopping one bunch of Muslims from killing another" shows just how self-deluded Gerard Baker is.
Judging by some of the comments in response to this piece it is obvious that it strikes a chord with some very prejudiced people.
If this piece really is the voice of Middle England then there is absolutely no hope of ever sorting out the world's problems. How depressing.
Robert Bromley, Lancing, UK
The release was an act of genuine government, not just propaganda.
Most people can see that intuitively. Governments act to do things to improve their people's lives.
Fatah had decades to prove it could govern, and it always failed.
Here is a government that can act, and the world's propagandists are preaching that it be ignored. What rubbish.
What's wrong with two governments living together without liking each other. To my my mind that's the best we can we can achieve.
It's none of Israel's business who governs the Palestinians so long as they meet their obligations.
Many governments have lived for years without recognition.
Of course, Israel listens to no one in its affairs. Why in God's name is it Israel's right to set a list of preconditions for Palestine?
It's just arrogance beyond measure. They've abused these people for half a century. It's time for Israel to show it can in fact do anything else.
JOHN CHUCKMAN, Toronto, Canada
If Iraq was a war for oil, why didn't the US simply confiscate Saudi, Kwaite, and Iraqi oil and give it's own citizens cheap gas and lower taxes through oil exports?
John David Green, Scottsdale, AZ - USA
Gerard Baker is right to say that "The plight of the Palestinian people is heartrending. A just settlement, and preferably a two-state solution with secure and sustainable borders, is essential." Perhaps, if his advice was taken a long time ago, extremism would not have had the fertile grounds to grow. It looks as if this is the cause while the extremism is the effect. It is not too late to seek a long-lasting and just solution which would greatly help diffuse the situation regionally and world-wide. Also there are a large number of peaceful moderate Christian Palestinians who have also suffered exile and occupation by Israel. The extremists would thrive as long as the underlying problem is not addressed. Israelis also need to feel safe and secure otherwise their extremists would also thrive.
Ellis, London, UK
During the 80s West trained 100,000 Wahabi Arab and Afghan fundamentalists against the Communist Afghan rulers. West spent billions of dollars to fund them. These created AlQaeda later. According to UPI Israel helped funding the Hamas to split Palestinians. Already in 1959 Saddam was on CIA paylist recruited to kill general Qasem and Baath party was helped to power by cooperation with CIA. In 1953 CIA replaced Iranian democracy with Shah's autocratic regime keeping him in power for 26 years. Then they provided Saddam with WMDs to kill hundreds of thousands of Iranians. Maybe you should all learn some lessons in history ? That would be good.
John Elder, London, Britain
Gerard Baker's editorial on how Hamas always wins the propaganda war over here was so spot on, it was a relief to read. The funny thing is that, in a democracy, if the people are unhappy, they blame the government and throw them out. But when it comes to the Middle East, when the Palestinians are suffering, no one blames their government (say, for an intifada that's backfired horribly on their own people) - they blame Israel. It's odd.
Susan Storring, London, UK
I was disappointed by Gerald's article, especially as his last one one on abortion was goodand brave. It's wrong to be so dismissive about 'the suffering of the people of Iraq and Afghanistan' (and Palestine). They are suffering in ways we can hardly imagine, while, let's not forget, last week's attempted atrocities killed no one! Should we defend our lives and liberties? Absolutely! Should we bomb and invade other people's countries (for their own good, of course)? Absolutely not!
M. Williams, Oxford, UK
Heâs right, of course. We do forget the basics sometimes. But we can because of the fact that no one is totally evil. Or good. Itâd be so much simpler if they were.
The radical Islamists are no different than the radical Christians who bomb abortion clinics & beat up homosexuals. Violent radicalism is negative no matter who does it, or why. But those who bomb the clinics, or lob missiles into Israel, probably go home and hug their wives and children.
I'm reminded of Nietsche, who advocated an ego-centric selfishness. I think he's proof that anyone can justify any kind of behavior, at least in their own minds.
J. Rhinehart, Spartanburg, usa
Jenny Taylor writes: 'The Nazi Party won a free and fair election (down the barrell of a gun) in the 1930's. We were right not to like it.'
This is the second time I've spotted this clap trap in The Times.
Hitler was not elected. Full stop.
The Nazi's never got more than 36-37% of the vote. Hitler was appointed Chanvellor by a tired von Hindenburg, hoping to end the chaos in the streets.
After Hindenberg's death and the Reichstag fire, Hitler assumed dictatorial powers, much in the fashion Bush has perverted American freedoms after 9/11.
Hamas was cleanly elected, more cleanly by far than Bush's two vote fraud-ridden elections.
They are not a terrible organization. Israel years ago secretly subsidized them. They can govern responsibly. Anyone who wanted peace would make the effort.
Please remember Israel was founded itself on terror. Bombings, assassinations, mass killings, terrorizing Arabs to flee their homes. Are we never to talk to Israel then?
JOHN CHUCKMAN, Toronto, Canada
Neil,sydhey,aus
"they want to destroy Israel and the west (reading from the koran). "
what a shame !!! just tell us what is Koran? I bet you never seen one...
it's called Quran My dear... and u will never find anything that comes close to what u have in your mind...
this all about politics nothing to do with religion ...
if u wana know about the Quran... just see read here
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/
jakatore, Warikshire, uk
Funny how the West reacts when a democratically elected government doesn't do what we want them to.
Hamas - who were elected by an overwhelming majority by a people sick of Israeli persecution and corrupt Palestinian leadership, have had all their funds cut, are portrayed as terrorists in the press and all power, negotiations and money has been handed over to Abbas - who was not elected, known to be corrupt but more than happy to play along with Israel and the US.
All the while Israel constantly defies international law (the wall, shipping taxes, nuclear weapons, occupation, apartheid, missile strikes) are portrayed as the poor victims while they bomb Lebanon, stave Palestinians, separate families, steal land without repercussion.
The people of Gaza are running out of food and in a dire situation, while newspapers world wide pick favourites and tell us Muslims are to blame for the ills in the world.
ManWithNoGun, Melbourne, Australia
Hamas wants:
The return of refugees in the same way that paintings and jewelry are returned to Holocaust victims;
The end of the illegal occupation og the West Bank and imprisonment of Gaza;
The demolition of the Apartheid Wall. Israel is free to build a wall on its 1948 boundary;
Evacuation of the 400 000 settlements on the West Bank and
Israeli withdrawal from Est Jerusalem.
These hardly sounds controversial or extremist. It is consistent with international law, international conventions and the 2004 International Court of Justice Advisory Opinion. However, should one hold these views then you would be accused of wanting to destroy a particular country or being in bed with anti-Semites. Let us stop making Hamas and Palestinians the issue. Israel has illegally occupied land since 1948. Let us start there and stop playing hide-and-seek with the issues.
JA, LDN,
you did not go in there to save the muslims from each other. you went in there for the oil.
Who appointed you as saviors? forget about the white man´s burden, bwana
andres anzola, David, chiriqui, panama
Those who don't believe Hamas plans (not wants, plans) to take over the West really ought to read Hamas' Charter. It's easily obtainable online as are many of Hamas' posters and other PR material that say the same thing. Hamas does not try who they are and what they want; the people I call "street-corner liberals" do that.
Regards,
a liberal.
Inna Tysoe, Sacramento/CA, USA
"the Americans went into Afghanistan and Iraq with the aim of stopping one bunch of Muslims from killing another"
What kind of revisionist nonsense is this? The US went into Afghanistan to bring down the Taleban, which gave refuge to al Qaeda. Into Iraq to bring down the Saddam regime.
Paul, Columbia, USA
"The Israeli state was founded by confiscating Arab land."
Wrong. Israel was founded on land confiscated by the British from the Turks who supported the Nazis during the war. Prior to that it was part of the Ottoman Empire. After 48, Gaza was part of Egypt and the West Bank, part of Jordan. That land has never been under the controll of Palastinians or indeed 'Arabs'. It always was a hybrid of many tribes and religions - Palastinians were Christian as well as Muslim - Jews have lived there for centuries, as well as Druse, Beduoins and countless other groups.
Petra Murray, London,
Am I alone in the surmise that the Johnston abduction was not a wholly uncollaborative affair?
Charlie Tips, Flower Mound, Texas
"But when Hamas pulls a stunt like the one it managed this week, weâre all transfixed, lost in innocent admiration at the sheer humanity of these people."
Really..? They look like the same nutcases to me, besides we're all playing the propaganda game, including you Gerard.
Owen, London, UK
Actually it was Western Journalists that won the propaganda war on behalf of Hamas. Journalists and Terrorists seem like soulmates to me.
John, VA, USA
Glen got in there first but to say "the Americans went into Afghanistan and Iraq with the aim of stopping one bunch of Muslims from killing another" shows just how self-deluded Gerard Baker is.
Judging by some of the comments in response to this piece it is obvious that it strikes a chord with some very prejudiced people.
If this piece really is the voice of Middle England then there is absolutely no hope of ever sorting out the world's problems. How depressing.
Robert Bromley, Lancing, UK
Great article. It wavered in the middle but recovered at the end. The "palestinians" voted for Hamas; they admire their goals - the destruction of Israel and war with the West. No support for them until they renounce these goals. (assuming for a moment we could believe them if they did)
Ellen Morris, Leeds,
one sane man
wish there were more
pbear, herzlia pituach, israel
Sam from Manchester;
who wrote "the current instability in this world has been caused by Mr Bush"
Yes, everything from the turbulence in Nepal, the economic collapse in Zimbabwe, to the genocide in Darfur, have the sneaky fingers of Mr Bush behind them.
JohnT, US,
Hamas didn't stage a PR exercise. They were confirming themselves as the top dog in Gaza by forcing another of the terrorist groups there to give up a hostage.
Malcolm, London,
The Times correspondent unfortunately does not differentiate between Palestinians and other involved groups.
Hamas are Syrian Arabs, Fatah (including Arafat) are Egyptian Arabs. Palestinians however are a Mediterranean people.
Palestine was "given" the Jews by the Arabs in the "Faisal Weizmann agreement" in 1919. Given in quotes as Palestine was not an Arab territory that time either, but a British Mandate, before that it was a part of the Ottoman Empire.
If the correspondent being British, was allowed to participate in an election between a German and a French thug with foreign money, he might give a correct picture of the Palestinian's problem.
Trond, Oslo, Norway
I was reading this thinking, hmm, interesting, yes, possibly when I was literally dumbstruck by:- "Which is this: the Americans went into Afghanistan and Iraq with the aim of stopping one bunch of Muslims from killing another. "
I don't think so!!!!
O, London,
"Root causes"? "Hearts and minds"? Just risible. Until Western politicians publicly and continuously identify the problem as "The War on Islamic Jihad", and make clear the essential theological basis in Islam for this onslaught (viz., the dar al-islam v. dar al-harb dichotomy and the central role that jihad plays in Islam), the West has no chance of defeating resurgent jihadism.
Eric Green, Peterborough,
To Tony,
We, Muslims, don't hate your religion. We believe in Jesus more that what you do. He is mentioned in Koran to be the honorable and noble messenger of God. But we hate you opposition to his massage. Do you think that you can convince me that God and Jesus legalised the same-sex marriage! Did God and Jesus urged people to exercise adultery and to attack Muslim countries and kill thousands of civilians and rape children, like the Iraqi girl Abeer! You attacked Iraq and find no kind of mass destruction weapons? you have come there for free oil, but the fact is that the price of the oil is being paid by the blood of the American soldiers. Secondly, the times columnist is angry because Hamas freed Alan but I don't believe that he was angry when the Israeli army killed the English peace Activist Tomas and the American Rachil and many others.
Samuel , Gaza, Palestine
Why am I not surprised to see the Israeli policy apologists out in numbers. Hamas was not "in control" from "start to finish." I've lived in the Palestinian Territories and been there recently. No one is "in control" from start to anything. But there are plenty of arm chair propagandists who have never set foot in Hebron or Gaza who will try and tell you otherwise.
Deborah Gordon , Wichita, KS USA
This article of Gerard Baker points out very clearly that Hamas should not be trusted as they are not a partner in any type of negotiation which would mean the recognition and acceptance of the difference. They want an Islamic world: Israel does not figure in their plans as Jewish State to be recognised and accepted in the Middle East.
Sergio Perelberg, London, UK
When Alan Johnston was released Hamas said they were against kidnapping. This is another lie by them, they still hold the Israeli soldier kidnapped from Israel. Let them prove their words by releasing him forthwith.
I am astounded that Israel continues to supply Gaza with electricity and water and allows aid in from Israel. It is about time Israel really stood firm and withdrew all support until the rocket fire on Israel is permanently halted, Schlit is released and the murdering suicide bombers cease their deadly trade.
It is also amazing that the world can only criticise Israel and the world press make no mention of all the aid it gives to the Palestinians.
It was heartening to see Palestinians withdrawing their back pay from the Arab banks in Israeli shekels.
Those in the Uk who propose boycotting Israel presumably would advocate that the Palestinians should not touch any Israeli currency and that it should be returned immediately.
Tony, Stanmore,
Hamas want to take over the West?? They haven't even got enough money to pay wages let alone anything else. This paper is gradually becoming more and more right-wing. If you look at the articles through the website at the moment- it vilifies Muslims in every corner- it barely mentions the anti-terror rally in Glasgow arranged by Muslims this weekend.
Its articles like this which generate hatred, we all know it was Hamas propaganda to release Alan Johnston- so who on earth said ppl are praising them?
the current instability in this world has been caused by Mr Bush- you go and bomb a country and you don't expect any resistance? please.......
Sam, Manchester,
Hamas won it because the media and the BBC in particular let them. It's disgraceful the way the BBC is currently fawning over Hamas. Still it's nothing new for the BBC to sympathise with terrorists, they do it all the time.
Viv, London, England
The arguement goes that the Palestinians (Hamas/Fatah/Arabs) want to destroy Israel. The Israeli state was founded by confiscating Arab land. Israel since its foundation has been attempting (almost succeeding) in destroying Palestine. Why do we not hear more about the role of the occupier in f this tragic situation , or is it OK for Israelis to destroy Palestine but not vica versa?
Kevin Sullivan, London, UK
Seems that the writer is brainwashed by the official USA/UK statements regarding the reason for the invasion of Iraq-every one with an ounce of active grey matter knew it was all about controlling oil and indeed the US has just signed a contract with the puppet government to buy oil at $12 /barrel.
Now statements from an Australian goverment official confirm the reason for invasion as being "for oil"
One reason for the conflicts in the middle east is the wests blind support of the of the jewish state-they are an occupying power and stole the land from the arab people who lived there for thousands of years -yet another case of "double standards"
Ted .
Jeggo, Dundee, Scotland
"Then, of course, thereâs Israel. The plight of the Palestinian people is heartrending. A just settlement, and preferably a two-state solution with secure and sustainable borders, is essential. "
On the other hand, since the Palestinians are Arabs, and since the Arab nations bordering Israel were artificially created by European occupiers between the wars, perhaps we should take the most logical decision and leave Israel to the Jews and tell the Arab nations to house the Palestinians. A two state solution will never work.
Ryan Stephenson, Bristol, UK
HAMAS may have produced Alan Johnston, rabbit-out-of-the-bag style for the world Media stunt of the year.
What the world media and left-wing apologists seem incapable of realising is that he was kiddnapped with the full knowledge and approval of HAMAS, Islamic Jihad and that voice of moderation FATAH.
If HAMAS are the true upholders of peace and freedom in the region they would release without further delay Gilad Shalit.
Marc, Harrow, UK
"the Americans went into Afghanistan and Iraq with the aim of stopping one bunch of Muslims from killing another. They are still there in both countries today performing precisely this mission."
Wow, what a breathtaking example of revisionist history. We went to afghanistan to do what? It didn't have anything to do with 9/11 or removing the taliban? Going into Iraq was about helping muslims not kill each other, and not WMD's?
As for your main point, at least for the US, I've never heard anyone say a nice thing about Hamas. What p.r. coup? Do you think more of the wacko sort of muslims would help fund Hamas because of that? Who the hell are you talking about?
Todd, Seattle, WA
This is a piece truly worthy of Melanie Philips! Why do zionists and their proxies begrudge the slightest acknowledgement that muslims are not all fascists or evil? I think that Mr Baker has been too long in Bushite America; he has already gone native with his regurgitation of the talking points of the American Enterprise Institiute and the Heritage Foundation. For his sanity, he should be recalled.
V. Foley, Princes Risborough, Bucks
"Hamas won a free and fair election. The Israelis didn't like the result. "
The Nazi Party won a free and fair election (down the barrell of a gun) in the 1930's. We were right not to like it.
I cannot see the logic behind accepting a terrorist organisation because they 'saved' one man. When they will deny millions the right to be free.
Jenny Taylor, Bury, Lancs,
"Hamas was the big winner this week."
No it was not. The big winner were their foils, the "moderate" terrorists, Abbas and Fatah. The US, Europe and, yes, the Israelis are shoveling cash and weapons to them as they did to Peace Nobelist Arafat. And when Abbas and Fatah turn their shiny toy guns against Israel it will give "hardliners" like Baker a chance to pen another column expressing his surprise, but reiterating his support for the "two-state solution," of course.
Jay, Baltimore, USA
Hamas has allies, of which the BBC is one of the most important. I listened to the World Service broadcast that accompanied Johnston's release, and although the BBC had every reason to celebrate it, the programme veered off into what amounted to a promotion piece for Hamas.
I found myself, as usual, wondering why the BBC interviewers, who can be so bulldog-like when taking politicians to task, can become so tame and accepting of anything they are told, when Palestine is on the other end of the phone line.
The obvious way the challenge Hamas was to ask how the release was so painless if Hamas wasn't in control from start to finish, and that question was never asked.
jon livesey, Sunnyvale, CA/US
Do we have to go through the bloody business of relearning every generation that conceding to the demands of war and hate mongers in the hope of conciliation is a losing tactic? It is unfortunate, but very necessary to realize that the adherence to principles and not compromising with political terrorists, if necessary countering early with extreme force, is the only path that will lead to sustaining a free society.
Jay Kopelman, Kailua-Kona, Hawaii, USA
'weâre all transfixed, lost in innocent admiration at the sheer humanity of these people'
No we're not. Anyone with half a brain can see securing his release was pure propaganda.
Mark, Cambridge,
Before you start these articles Gerard you ought to get your head straight. In Israel, where they know more about terrorism in their little finger than you and the West know in your whole body. They have a simple saying: A terrorist is a terrorist is er....a terrorist.. Get your head round it and stop making little pathetic excuses for their activities in you snide PC way that you been trained in. Get used to it they are there now next door to YOU.
Victor M., Malaga, Spain
Hamas won a free and fair election. The Israelis didn't like the result.
Reminds me of the Euro referendum. You'll keep voting till we get the result right.
Makes you want to reaffirm your faith in democracy!
michael john murphy, brightlingsea, england
The New PM Brown, knows that he needs to have independent foreign policy away from the USA, but he cant do it all once and declare it. so slowly sptep by step, labour MP waiting him to make his decision slowly and giving PM a time to adjust.
in terms of HAMAS, when came to power the west did not give them a chance to adjust and change their view about terro and peace. if the west gave HAMAS a chance we could have avoided all these crisis in westbank and GAZA.
in order to get these nice guys in HAMAS to a moderate side and deal with them, we need to deal and bring both sides of conflicts Fatah and Hamas together and speed peace process
Lokman hamkafalo, Hatfield, UK, Kurdish
It is good for the British public to be made aware of the ultimate destructive objectives of Hamas, AlQaeda et al. They will use aggression or deception as needed. The Israelis have long ago and at great human cost found out that unrelenting terrorism must be faced with determination and should be rooted out.
Paul Jancu, New York, NY
"Which is this: the Americans went into Afghanistan and Iraq with the aim of stopping one bunch of Muslims from killing another."
eh!
Glen, Melbourne, Australia
The Americans went into Afghanistan/Iraq with the intention of stopping one group of Muslims killing another?
Maybe thats why they are staying but its certainly not why they went.
N.Sharkey, Belfast,
In 1967 Gaza'a population was under 90,000. In 2007 thats now 1.5 million. They are bursting out of a tiny piece of Land. It would be an economic miracle for them to ever become viable. Gaza is part of Egypt, who don't want them either. Allow Gaza to expand into the huge open spaces of the Sinai desert and see if they can prosper, but until the economics improve Hamas will prosper.
danny, london, UK
BRAVO! It's obvious to all except those who, by strange twists of logic, always find the Israelis to blame for everything that Hamas has staged a PR excercise by helping to free a journalist who shouldn't have been captured in the first place.
If I were guilty of those strange twists of logic referred to above I might think that Hamas had staged the whole thing from first to last.
Shirley, London, UK
hamas is popular in gaza because firstly, they are seen by the populace as less corrupt than fatah and secondly, they want to destroy Israel and the west (reading from the koran).
Why should Israel or anyone help these people whose stated intention is to destroy us ultimately?
neil, sydney, aus
Totally agree with the thrust of your argument here.
These people that lean on Iraq as the cure-all excuse for Islamic madness are deluded.
They hate us. Our lives. Our woman. Music. Booze. Religion. Success. etc etc -
Its endless & inexhaustable hatred based in ignorance & jealousy (mixed in with a healthy dose of mysogyny & sexual immaturity)
tony , Sydney , Australia