The ae in the general' name makes me think that it is of Greek/Italian origin since the greeks settled in southern Italy.

christine, grand rapids, usa/mich

Despite all of the doom, gloom and self hatred of America's neo-socialists, the United States will survive as a united nation long after we are all gone..

Lawrence Cline, Ft. Lauderdale, Florida

I can't really let you away with:

"Because in the end what they are doing is deeply honourable – fighting to destroy an enemy that delights in killing women and children; rebuilding a nation ruined by rapine and savagery; "
In fact, most of the damage done in Iraq, including that which has displaced or killed women and children, has been done by US forces. The small arms civilian casualties also show the US as top killer, between 40 and 60% of civilian casualties, as against 15% from the mad bombers.

The reports conclude that however vile the intentions of anti-US forces in Iraq may be, their IEDs are typically in the 20lb of explosive range. US JDAMs start about 50 times that size, so they kill more bystanders.

America has destroyed Iraq to save it. There is no honor to be won in a dishonorable cause.

stuart munro, seoul , korea

Which brings us to another remark of mr Baker:
"But many of us surely would think we should do something about it – as we did in the Balkans more than a decade ago – and as, infamously, we failed to do in Africa at the same time."
Ousting Saddam would have been a better idea if there had been a plan what to do after he'd gone, but anyone outside of the US (and probably in the US as well) could -and therefore should- have seen there wasn't such a plan (a mistake made so often in the history of US foreign policy, one would think that by now the lesson had been learned).
As for the Balkans, what has been done was too little too late, but being Dutch I'm very aware that here the US are not the country that should be most ashamed and the same can be said in the case of Rwanda. Nevertheless the US's role in these situations was not that heroic either. And on this same: nothing much has changed, when, just as in the Rwandan scenario, everyone sees what happens in Darfur...

erik b, Assen, Netherlands

And on this same: nothing much has changed, when, just as in the Rwandan scenario, everyone sees what happens in Darfur, but at the same time decides not to call it a genocide officially, because then one would have to intervene.
I'm not suggesting that Europe gives an example of a better character, just that America is not the force of Pure Good in the world it thinks itself to be.

erik b, Assen, Netherlands

First let me say I don't hate Americans and I do appreciate the many good things the United States have brought the world. This said, I should also say the US are in my eyes an empire of some sort and not a purely benign one as well.
The Roman empire is not the only empire in history, nor was it the first one, so I'd say that if there are differences between the US and Rome, that doesn't mean the US cannot be an empire. Besides, some of the points made by mr Baker are simply misleading or even false:

"No one pays tribute, no one declares allegiance to Caesar, and what kind of empire is it that owes its foreign subjects a couple of trillion dollars?"
Owing your foreign subjects money you'll never be able or willing to pay back seems to me like getting some kind of tribute of them. More direct forms of tribute are being
paid by the inhabitants of countries ruled by an elite that is kept in power by the US and is all to happy to give all kinds of benefits to the US and...

erik b, Assen, Netherlands

"trying to bridge sectarian divides that have caused more misery in the world than the US could manage if it lasted a thousand years.
It is helpful to think about Iraq this way. Imagine if the US had never been there; and that this sectarian strife had broken out in any case – as, one day it surely would, given the hatreds engendered by a thousand years of Muslim history and the efforts of Saddam Hussein."
Yes, it's helpful to have a better look at Iraq: previously the efforts of Saddam were supported in lots of ways by his best friend, the United States. As for those thousand years are concerned, I think the US have caused misery enough in two hundred years to make Saddam look like an amateur. This might be a good place to repeat that I don't consider everything the US have done bad, I just do not consider it all good either,
that's the point.

erik b, Assen, Netherlands

Rome fell, and Europe was plunged inot darkness for about 400 years. The Middle Ages were not the Dark ages.

Claire Ducker, Austin, Texas

Yes I agree , let us all hope the USA will be still around in a hundred years from now, with a President who respects the US Constitution and has the charisma of JFK!

Would'nt that be a fantastic development

Imagine for a moment this paradise:

No more neocon warmongering, no more secret CIA prisons, no more illegal eavesdropping on ordinary citizens, even Senator Edward Kennedy could hop on a plane again without being interrogated.

Sounds like heaven huh :-))

rob willems, Amsterdam, The Netherlands

Very well writeen and well thought out article. I really appreciated reading it.

Tonya, Seattle, Washington

Mr Baker (he who promised us tha MWD would surely be found) to provide a solution for Iraq.
"The evidence is encouraging that the increased US military effort has reduced violence", he writes.
Undoubtedly once all the enemies of peace have been killed, eternal peace, and victory will be won. This is the lesson Mr. Baker learned from Vietnam, where wisdom demanded that a village had to be destroyed to save it from communism.

eero iloniemi, helsinki, finland

Of course America is no Rome and nor does it have an empire in the same sense as the original but there are many similarities. America's arrogance, its military expansionism which sometimes seems to be its foreign policy (over 776 war garrisons around the world).

And other countries do indeed pay tribute, in another forms. As an example, the new war garrison being built 1.5 kilometers from the center of Vicenza; when objections were raised by the Italians, the Americans threaten to put Italy on a least-favored nation list. I think Mr. Baker is being simplistic about his point. And Moonbats loved this article. Must be a pro-war, pro-Bush, article.

Richard Fell, Nice,

Amerika is a temporary blip caused by WWII. They're still playing with their guns while the rest of the world moves past playground bullying. Once the Chinese cut off the money supply, the US will be in freefall and the brains of the world will book flights to a different destination.

Seán, Dublin, Ireland

I am a little curious about "p" from Lin'an, China's comment: "This author needs to seriously consider his assumptions, not only his facts (an Islam of a 1000 years? Interesting since it's only 700 odd years old)." Muhammed lived from c. 570 - 632, which, by my estimation, makes Islam almost twoice as old as he claims. Maybe I am missing something? If I am not the first to wonder at the arithmetic involved in this, I apologize.

Sam, Tampa, Florida

Thank you. America is a reluctant warrior. With all its power, perhaps its biggest failing was that it did not wax imperial in Iraq after it first stunning victory and deferred to let the Iraqis rebuild their own nation. Perhaps in a decade men will see more clearly and America will receive the criticism and praise it deserves.

Elliott Tepper, Madrid, Spain

This author needs to seriously consider his assumptions, not only his facts (an Islam of a 1000 years? Interesting since it's only 700 odd years old).

Sure, anyone claiming that the US is Rome doesn't understand history, or today, but domination through imperial whim need not take on the same clothes as former whims.

I'd ask the author to consult with those in the Americans, or Iran, or China as to just how disinclined to rule them the US actually is. And BTW, those trillions the US owe to "their subjects" works quite well for pressing the US' positions -- would China really like it's 1.4 trillion in USD reserves to founder because of a political slight like the US mandating certain conditions on imports, very likely without justification (e.g. steel, not toys)?

p, Lin'an, China

Of course America is no Rome and nor does it have an empire in the same sense as the original but there are many similarities. America's arrogance, its military expansionism which sometimes seems to be its foreign policy (over 776 war garrisons around the world). And other countries do indeed pay tribute, in another forms. As an example, the new war garrison being built 1.5 kilometers from the center of Vicenza; when objections were raised by the Italians, the Americans threaten to put Italy on a least-favored nation list. I think Mr. Baker is being simplistic about his point.

Richard Fell, Nice,

I too, thank you, for your clarity of thought and perceptive understanding. Pity no one on the left can respond with anything that reads/sounds nearly as intelligent or wise.

Rodney White, Ranson, wv

He's talking about the only world that mattered for the people who lived in it. Mr. Baker is certainly aware that other civilizations existed when Rome declined; that wasn't his point. Unfortunately for those who delight in drawing such pedantic distinctions, it's unlikely that the effects of an American collapse--if it happens--will be as neatly contained as was Rome's. But by all means, have another helping of schadenfreude. It's easy to prepare, but I think you'll find it's not very filling.

David Powell, Limerick, Pennsylvania, USA

America has consistently proved itself to be the most potent force against totalitarianism, and long may it remain so.

Dave, Southampton, UK

Professor Richard Lynn ability to see the future using his theories and conjectures makes weathermen and economists look like the pinnacle of precision.

William, Chicago, USA

Thank you for this. No sooner did the US arrive as the global hyperpower were leftists predicting [read: hoping] for our demise. First it was the Soviets, then the Japanese in the 80's and now it's China and India. Rumors of our death have been greatly exaggerated. I don't know what induces this sort of self-loathing.

People, historically speaking we just got here and our tenure will last at least a couple hundred years at least without Americans even breaking a sweat.

Do you really think things will get better after the US has passed from the scene?

Geoffrey, Washington, DC, USA

He's got it right. If the world lost America, there would be much nostalgia for it amongst many of the people who are today constantly denouncing it. Who would keep the world safe for democracy? The world would still have Eurabia, but maybe not for long. Then what?

Eric, Camas, Washington

all kinds of benefits to the US and their foederati in Western Europe, Japan and some other favorite so-called allies. "So-called" allies because even the most timid criticism seems to provoke anger in the imperial centre and also because these allies might be called upon to assist the US when it suits them, but adding their own insights which might help in finding the best policy is never appreciated. The history of tribute-paying can be seen most clearly in Latin-America,
but in a way one could also point at regimes in the Arab world and elsewhere.

erik b, Assen, Netherlands

It is pretty amazing when the anti-American crowd (including those back here) react with such anger to a piece that basically says don't count the US out so easily.

We've turned back challenges from kaisers and commissars, fascists and militarists, the post-war economic 'miracles' of Japan and Germany, and the planned economy of a post-reality EU.

Who pray tell, is poised to take our place now? China? Wait until after the press looks behind the Olympics facade next year. India? Maybe. As a productive democracy it cerainly has more claim to achieve top spot than others. But that will take a while. And we'll be advancing during that time, too.

Still, predicting our decline makes a lot of money for many authors. And apparently satisfies the needs of many readers.

So enjoy your hobby. America and our friends have work to do.

Brian Dunn, Ann Arbor, United States of America

I would agree with Professor Lynn's assessment, if of course we continue to allow the MoveOn.orgs of our society to exist as is they are the norm.
These fringe "open-minded" elites should consider in their wide understanding of human civilization that there is a good and a bad. There is a right and a wrong. Unfortunately their academia has lead them astray in beliving that no borders, no individual success, no religion and thereby no wars are the answers for a utopia.
Humans weren't given the right to legitimize good and evil. But they were given the responsibility to pick a side and fight for it. I am quite sure Rome understood that.

Dan Trantham, Fort Smith, Arkansas/USA

Well said Mr. Baker. I always get a crack up at the resulting comments from articles such as these. I always find it outstanding how certain individuals are so quick to denounce optimism and substitute it for anti-Americanism. They likewise usually try to objectively predict the demise/ conduct of America from within the prism of history rather than outside of it. As any student of history knows, its always a laughable attempt.

Micah, Tallahassee,

Huburt, Brunner et. al: Funny...if the U.S. is "Brazil" in 2050, then London is Karachi, Paris is Algiers, Brussels is Medina...I'll take Brazil in all its human and cultural diversity anytime. Samba over the dead hand of islam.

hawkeye, norfolk, VA

America is a quasi empire only in the sense that our cultural influence has spread throughout the world. But I would point out that our culture has spread more from Hollywood, McDonalds, and Coke then it has from our military. As far as our military excursions go, we would rather not get involved, but because the rest of the world has abdicated their moral responsibilities in the world we have no choice. We have to act because no one else will. If it weren't for us Bosnia would have been just one more of history's killing fields. So the rest of you bed wetting lefties throughout Europe just keep you heads in the sand while we do our best to fix the mess you made of the world over the last four centuries.

LT LaRose, Bahrain,

We must never forget the help of the United States of America
in defeating Hitler and the Nazi war machine in World War 2.
God Bless the U.S.A

Joel Fridjohn, Hod Hasharon, Israel

Sudhakaran, he was referring to the civilized world, Europe. After Rome fell, the Dark Ages took hold. Japan was still waist deep in rice paddies, so if your part of the world was unaffected...well, who cares really?

Mike, Staten Island, NY

Peter Heather's The Fall of the Roman Empire suggests that (western) Rome did not fall because it was overstretched and in decline, but was destroyed by pressures that would always have been fatal to the imperial system, so the comparison with American 'decline' may be even more misplaced. But on the subject of empires and foreign debt, there was (still is?) an argument that Rome was damaged by the drain of precious metals east, to buy luxuries. As for American 'empire' it's more like the republic before the 1st century BC, massive military power and the willingness to depoly it to maintain economic/diplomatic interests, and a real distaste for imposing direct rule.

Neil Panton, Brighton, UK

Mr. Blackley, I realize that short responses such as yours shouldn't be expected to have the same degree of content as the full sized article you critique, but I am surprised that in your 4 paragraphs you failed to rise above your own criticism of Gerard Baker as a name-caller. Instead, you offer no rebuttal of any specific points of Mr. Baker but give only assertions and abuse to those you oppose. I suggest you should read again what you wrote and try to imagine yourself as the recipient.

Thomas, Grand Rapids, USA

Thank you Mr. Baker for our kind words regarding America. Best regards.

Thomas Jones, Eden, NY/USA

Sudhakaran-- It was called "the Dark Ages." It was called "Dark" for a reason.

Excellent read. As an American, it is refreshing to see a foreign newspaper with some intellectual honestly and not falling all over itself to bash the U.S.

Andrew, Omaha, NE, USA

The Greek chorus that claims that the U.S. is going the way of the Roman Empire seems deaf to logic, historical perspective, or even the wider context of today's changing global world. They are like another chorus that has complained about the state of the U.S. economy in recent years, even while indicators were at historically strong levels and signaling both change and unusually strong overall economic vitality. The world is changing. --That's for sure, and false historical analogies do not help point the way to the future.

Name Withheld, Washington, DC

Ah, Professor Lynn of the great, profound subject of "Social Science," come and have a pint with us in 2050 Professor, it will be on us, the U.S., America, like everything else is, and we'll all have a damned fine time!

M Morris, Pasadena, CA

Outstanding piece of writing, as usual. Thanks.

Jeff Whitten, Rincon, Georgia, USA

No. Hubris is a Greek word. Read the Peloponnesian Wars, If you want a antique parallel. Iraq looks all to like the Sicilian expedition to me.

The Gods have provided us with our Nemesis, we will entice them to commit greater atrocity then our machines will slay the whole billion guilty or not, and we will have our punishment with our victory; being no longer men but beasts.

Gerald R. Everett, New York, NY

No. Hubris is a Greek word. Read the Peloponnesian Wars, If you want a antique parallel. Iraq looks all to like the Sicilian expedition to me.

The Gods have provided us with our Nemesis, we will entice them to commit greater atrocity then our machines will slay the whole billion guilty or not, and we will have our punishment with our victory; being no longer men but beasts.

Gerald R. Everett, New York, NY

Well said. Empire, in history, has always carried the connotation of tribute paid by the nations/territories of the empire to the ruling class.

In the famous words of Colin Powell, "all the United States has ever asked for" from the countries we've liberated "is enough land to bury our dead".

That truth is a bitter pill that sticks in the throats of all those of the far left, as they continue their dishonorable campaign to vilify the motives of the United States.

John, Morris, AL

Hubert, London, England: "The social scientist, Professor Richard Lynn of Ulster University relegates the US to Latin American status by 2050."

And the present status of the U.K. , to say nothing of EURABIA as a whole? Perhaps your vaunted social scientist (whatever THAT means) could/should conduct his "scientific" studies a little closer to home.

Alan, Chicago, USA

Rome fought wars to replenish its slave population, upon which the entire economy was based.
If the U.S. of America aren't careful, they'll fall into the same trap -- having to fight perpetual war to prop up an increasingly wartime economy.

Matt, Wuerzburg, Germany

well said!

-and even more entertaining, the defensive, abusive, juvenile comments by the leftists

the more they lose, the more entertaining life is!

dev rios, paterson, nj/usa

General Petraeus cherry picked his data and his testimony was tendentious. In this sense, he betrayed a trust. This is not the same as calling him a traitor.

Stanley Jacobs, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

Thank you so much for your lecture on "Empire Building", especially coming from a Brit Leftist. Will tomorrows lecture be Socialized Medicine??? I can't wait!!!

cck, Cypress,

"When Rome fell, the world went dark for the best part of a millennium."

The world? Certain not the MesoAmerican Societies, African Kingdoms, or China. One might even debate that Europe faired all that badly.

Nice uninformed Eurocentric view.

Laura, New York City, NY

I believe when he said the world went dark he was making a refrence to the dark ages, were all knowlage came from the church, where peaple went back to living in hovels instead of the massive homes the Romans built. The fall of Rome set humanity back more then 2000 years, I think you should read a book Mr. Sudhakaran

Nick Krzyzak, Fairbanks , Ak

When Rome fell, research shows that trade severly declined, farm yeilds dropped, population dropped, literacy dropped, and considerable areas that were developed were abandoned or fell apart. Is that what people want to happen to the world? There are some bad people out there- and they are in the US and Britain and Japan too. They want the US to fail- they want Iraq to descend into chaos. And what happens if the US fails, if it leaves Iraq? Good or bad? Bad. Don't cheer for bad things to happen- only bad people do that.

Kyle, Waterford, MI, USA

Mr. Baker:

As an American, I thank you for your comments, and would like to return the compliments. In 1939, while Joe Kennedy and Charles Lindbergh were deriding President Roosevelt's efforts to prepare for war, Winston Churchill and your countrymen held the line against Hitler, the second worst mass murderer (Stalin being the worst) in modern history. If the U.S. is now the last, best defense against world tryanny, it is becuase we brought that sense of decency with us from England 250 years ago.

Jim, St. Louis, Missouri, USA

Thank you, Mr. Baker..it's always a surprise to see the voice of reason in today's media.

Ani P., Union City, Ca

Mr John A Blackley, thank you for reminding us that the motto of Austin is "Keep Austin Weird ".!
Mr Baker, brilliant as usual, thanks.

Desmond Taylor, Houston, USA Tx

"When Rome fell, the world went dark for the best part of a millennium."

What about the Byzantine Empire? China? The Califate of Baghdad? Or does the world equate the Western tip of the Eurasian continent?

Laure, Paris,

"It is helpful to think about Iraq this way. Imagine if the US had never been there . . . ."

Yes, let's imagine! There wouldn't be the disastrous mess we find, today, in Iraq. Iran would not have the influence it now has in the Middle East, and the United States would be much more respected on the world stage.

Imagine that!

Laurie, Bridgewater, Canada

If there is a Rome that will fall by 2050, it's not America but Europe. There is a growing Islamic population in Europe that is not being allowed to enjoy the fruits of economic progress. While American Moslems have had little trouble assimilating into American economic life, that has not been the case for European Moslems. This provides a possible foundation for Islamic extremism in Europe. Professor Lynn should focus his efforts much closer to home. Even after stopping the Moors at Tours in the 8th century and the Turks twice at Vienna, could Europe still be overrun. Europe's remedy should not be about keeping Moslems out or segregated in ghettos but about assimilation.

Gerald Baker is quite right is pointing out what would have happen had the US not gone into Iraq when it did. As several commentators (e.g. Ian Bremmer) have pointed out, Iraq was already on the verge of imploding thanks to Saddam's divide-and-control tactics against the Kurds and Shites.

Ross, Alexandria, USA/VA

Mr. Baker, I usually read your work with interest and find myself largely in agreement but this time you missed the point and an enormously obvious point it is.

This occupation is not about helping the Iraqis but about helping ourselves to what they possess. Observe the oil law languishing in the Iraqi parliment.

The US has acted with altruistic motives before but this is not one of those times. As my teenage daughter would say: Duh!

toosinbeymen, New York, NY

Sudhakaran,

I suspect you have a point -- that being that the fall of Rome had any direct, discernible impact on Japan or China.

Therefore, I assume Mr. Baker is talking about the history of the Western World.

But none of his points are not diminished by that apparent oversight.

Phil, Columbia, Mo/USA

Michael G., I'm thinking you misread Mr. Baker's intent. He wasn''t slamming us, partner.

Lee D., Dallas, TX, USA

You might have added the correct conclusion: that the problem is religion, religion as such. Rome fell when the Roman Justinian closed the last of the pagan schools. The Dark and Middle Ages heralded the abandonment of reason, replaced by the irratioanality of religion, the remnants of which we see today in the chopping off of innocent heads, and an America too steeped in its own "religious" ethics of altruism.

Stuart Daw, Seminole, Florida

America is not an empire, it is an umpire. If we teach them baseball then we might be able to play ball with them.

Jon Wright, Irving, Texas

Occasionally a good piece of writing does find its way though the chaff of agenda journalism; Gerard Baker has written such a piece.

The current situation in Iraq is seen through the lens of current industrial media, where the need to sell soap or placate political alliances dictates what the news is.

It is always refreshing to find a work of real journalism that serves no master but that of rational perspective.

Keep up the good work.

John Garrett, Kaycee, Wyoming

What a great article. To say the US is an empire sounds like something straight out of the talkings points of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Sure the Iraq war was a mistake. But what exactly is the US trying to do as we speak?: reduce the violence in that country and get the hell out. If we wanted to dominate and colonize, we would have taken a much different approach.

Alex, Seattle, Washington

right, Japan was such a leading light when Rome "went dark"...puh-lease. Japan was so inward-looking everyone's eyes became crossed. It's a fact.

johnny go, columbus, Ohio, USA

It's nice to see support coming from a part of the world that has us 'wondering' some times. Americans wonder where all the anti-Americanism comes from. But it's certainly nothing new. It's cropped up over and over during the last few decades. Human nature may explain some of it. Mistakes made by the U.S. also plays a part. Some think us arrogant. Some watch our entertainment and believe what they think it says about us. We are first a country which was founded and populated by immigrants, by "you". Contrary to popular belief in Europe and elsewhere, we do have long traditions of freedom and liberty, the roots of which we share with you. We don't have any interest in "conquering the world". We also refuse to be increasingly cornered by religious fanaticism transformed into a blood sworn war by its adherents. If the U.S. disappeared, would Europe be negotiating with al Qaeda? All in the western world face the same threat. It's what we do about it that will determine our fate.

bluecollarbytes, usa,

Well said. Let us hope that the US public will be wise enough to vote out the vapid left-wingers before we end up as Rome did, too soon.

Ned Van Nostrand, Warsaw, Indiana, USA

Wow, someone who doesn't have a vested interest in the Republican Party or the USA in general who has some nice things to say. Very refreshing and a good read.

Thanks a bunch. :)

Perhaps some of your detractors might have a point about the "world went dark" bit. Europe's world went very dark (not a whole lot of anything but survival being done), but much of the rest of the world seemed to carry on without Rome.

Peter Overson, Salt Lake City, Utah, USA

Well said Mr. Baker.

Those who slander the U.S. by accusing it of empire building would do well to recall the words of Colin Powell:

"We have gone forth from our shores repeatedly over the last hundred years and we’ve done this as recently as the last year in Afghanistan and put wonderful young men and women at risk, many of whom have lost their lives, and we have asked for nothing except enough ground to bury them in, and otherwise we have returned home to seek our own, you know, to seek our own lives in peace, to live our own lives in peace. But there comes a time when soft power or talking with evil will not work where, unfortunately, hard power is the only thing that works."

These few words of truth stick in throat of those "muddled minds" that refuse to face the reality of the Islamic threat, and they regurgitate the most vile lies, and willingly abscribe to any American effort to oppose this threat the most sinister of motives in the attempt to remove this irritant.

John Rogers, Morris, USA AL

My, what a breath of fresh air. It will not stop the Left's attacks on the military but it is far more balanced than most posts.

John Cogburn, Ft. Worth, Texas USA

Please. The U.S. installed Saddam Hussein because he then suited their purpose,remember.They threw him out because they were after WMD,remember.Next was"Mission accomplished",remember.I'm astonished that there is anyone out there who can attempt to defend U.S presence in Iraq on the basis of bringing stability to the region.Its equivalent to arguing that they brought democracy to Chile when they overthrew Allende and installed Pinochet.

bill klym, calgary , canada

We do want America to survive in it's original, democratic and idealistic form.

That's why so many of us are appalled at the Bush administrations reckless disregard for her constitution, and at their apparent determination to show and exacerbate her military and political weaknesses.

Bush apologists like Mr Baker have no monopoly on American patriotism. In fact they have very little claim to it at all.

John McD, San Francisco, ca, USA

Thank you, Mr. Baker.

Michael, Little Rock, USA

Sudhkaran of Japan, whether a male or female I do not know, must be somehow implying that the world has seen a greater civilization than that of the West. Well, he/she is sadly mistaking. It is the West, from Classical Greece & Roman times through perhaps the 18th Centruy that produced the GREATEST civilization ever known to man. And, that was simply because of Christianity and the effect which it had upon Europe & Europe upon the world. Sudhkaran cannot hope to equate the gunpowder and silk and kite discoveries of China or the so-called glories of the Mohammedan invasions & devastations with that of the true and MOST GLORIOUS civilization of Europe, now can he/she? Without the impact of Christianity and as Hilaire Beloc said, "Europe is the Faith & the Faith is Europe" the rest of the world would still be in darkness as so many parts are still! Mr. Baker, thank you for a fabulous article not because I'm American but because I am a proud product of European Christian greatness!

Steven Dean, Phoenix, Arizona/USA

Hey, I'll just come right out and say it. The world would be a better place if all of its inhabitants were governed by a western-style democracy. It is inarguable that this form of government raises the standard of living for all of those fortunate enough to live under it. Indeed, "the worst form of government with the exception of all others." Spreading our fortune to those less fortunate is the cause. Noble, for sure. Plausable, maybe. Probable? Well, I fancy myself an optimist. I am certainly not arguing American superiority. We certainly have our problems. But, like I tell those who complian about seemingly trivial things, "be thankful your not living under a animal skin tarp in some Godforsaken country waiting for the Red Cross to show up with a bowl of rice." Some problems are easier to live with than others.

Steve Rider, Lincoln, Nebraska

"the US and other countries need to hold accountable the ENTIRE population that nurtures and clothes the offender WHEN AT WAR. "

Good point, James, placentia, ca.

The Civil War did not end until Sherman realized only "total war" would defeat the South. No longer would he "parole" prisoners, leave behind food for the enemy, be tolerant of the population supporting the enemy.

Germany was forced to unconditional surrender. Japan needed a couple of nukes. My patience wears thin with "limited" wars. We tend to lose them.

David Sweningsen, BOULDER CITY, U.S.A.

Very well said Mr. Baker- as is usually the case with the far left- you're being demonized because of your refusal to subscibe to their alternate "reality". The USA has been a force for many things in the modern world- most of them good- we've lost our way occasionaly but by and large have done the correct thing- The question I have for the left is who else would be a more responsible superpower

Bill, Philadelphia, PA USA

"Imagine if the US had never been there; and that this sectarian strife had broken out in any case – as, one day it surely would, given the hatreds engendered by a thousand years of Muslim history and the efforts of Saddam Hussein. "

What utter nonsense - the author clearly knows very little about Muslim or Iraqi history if he believes that

"When Rome fell, the world went dark for the best part of a millennium."

The concept of the so-called "Dark Ages" has largely been discredited by modern historians and in fact it was described as such originally by Christian writers who were understandably upset by the success of the Germanic Pagan tribesmen.

Having said which I agree with him that the US is likely to continue as the dominant world power for some time to come though eventually like all empires it will be supplanted by others.

Dan, Winchester , Hants

The analogies between Pax Romana and the Bello Americana are justified because both 'empires' will ultimately fall for the same reason and the reason that all empires fail. This is because the race that starts and builds an empire allows itself to become diluted, polyglot, and corrupt. The Roman soldier peasants who were the backbone of the Roman Empire were economically replaced by slaves while Roman citizens became debtors demanding ever-increasing handouts from the government and then endorsing dictatorship that saw them become an irrelevance. The American peasant frontiersmen who were the backbone of the American empire are currently undergoing a similar experience as debt soars and cheap labor immigration spirals out of control creating a polyglot nation that is no longer a nation never mind an empire, while the tyranny of big business and disaster capitalism continues to inhabit the hollowed out shell of American imperial power.

Karl M. Baxter, Inverurie,

"....in the end what the USA is doing there is deeply honourable..."

Thank you for that.

Chris Hartridge, London, UK

I've no doubt secterian troubles would have broken out in Iraq anyway. the big difference is, the USA and its allies would be seen as helpers when they went in to help, rather than the cause of it as they are now.

Luke, London, UK

So a lefty Ulster prof thinks the USA is going to disappear by 2050? That's news. If he'd have immigrated to the US of A like most of the Irish did 150 years ago he'd now be sitting beside his pool in Tallahasee saying the same thing.

Grow up. The US isn't going away, despite your wet dreams. I wonder what status the UK gets when the US becomes a banana republic. Perhaps it's already there.

george, london, uk

We of one-mind (in the north, east, west and south) have reflected on what can reasonably be achieved beyond Mesopotamia.

We accept that while our will is resolute (in the absolute sense) our means are necessarily limited.

Therefore, we have undertaken to work with that which can be spared, and to let the four winds do what they will.

Griffin, Middlewood,

And does he relegate England to Ugandan status by 2050?

Duncan, Grand Rapids, Michigan ,USA

Hubert,
I am from Ulster and Iam now an American citizen.
Give me America any time over social scientists.
Talk and theory is cheap but America is the best country for it's people.
If you want to work it is possible to get ahead.
I am tired of envious Brits trashing America because of petty envy.

Douglas Gabbey, Los Angeles/Comber, USA

To Hubert from London: Did Prof. Lynn of Ulster Univ. describe to what status he relegates the UK by 2050? By your recent immigration trends I'd predict 14th Century Persia. Isn't the biggest mosque in Europe under construction in London?Latin American doesn't sound that bad.

Robert, Saratoga Springs, New York/USA

Let me offer this:
1. We should have never invaded Iraq
2. We should leave Iraq as soon as possible

I have no hope of convicing anybody with the opposite view, or the other way around.

That's why we had elections ... That's why we will have elections ...

Goran Ljustina, Miami, Florida

Hubert, in the 1800s the head of the US patent office declared that it should be closed because everything that would be invented had already been invented. It just goes to show that any idiot can make a pronouncement, but it doesn't mean it is right.

A professor from Harvard named Kennedy wrote a book about the imminent decline of the US in the 1980s (1990s?). Then there was the coming ice age predicted in the 70s. Then there was Greenpeace telling me in the early nineties that by now my basement would be filled with garbage because we were running out of landfill space. Let's not forget all those books in the 80s predicting Japan taking over the world and me spending the rest of my life unemployed and living in a cardboard box and on and on and on and on............................

Gerald Joyce, Chicago, USA

Mr. Baker thanks for the kind words, You do not hear much good about the US these days from Europe. If only the left and most europeans could spend some time in Iraq and see the good we are doing I think they would stop their whining. I have two tours to Iraq. Christmas we brought tons of toys to orpanage and every kids was chanting USA. Parents life their kids in the air when we flew by and many named their kids after George Bush. You don't see any Hillary's or Obama being named over there. I enjoyed visiting Basra where the British were stationed and snuck a beer or two. Our countries may not always get along but as soldiers we do. Oh you might of guessed it, I like majority of my unit are Republicans. Not to many liberals on battlefield. they do their talking while protesting everything. Sad life indeed

CW2 Sean, Overseas, Overseas

I am no historian but a boring Certified Accountant. But even I can see that it is offensive to describe what America is doing in Iraq as 'honourable'. This is a typical Anglo-saxon way of rationalising upon the evil that they have inflicted over centuries in various parts of the globe.
Petreus and his soldiers are indeed brave and decent Americans. Not so their masters who have put them in Iraq for reasons that even a schoolboy can see. It has nothing top do with preventing ethnic strife(America and the war has exacerbated if not caused it). Rather it has to do with plundering a nation's resourses regardless of the consequences and adding to the coffers of the oilrich mafia that runs the White house. Ambassadar Bolton made a freudian slip a couple of days back when he said to Stephen Sackur that america was not concerned if the at the time of withdrawal of forces Iraq was split in 3 or 4 nations saying that America's only concern was to defend its strategic interests.
ROME?

LAKSHMAN PARDHANANI, GOA, INDIA

No one pays tribute to the US?

Petrodollars anyone?

Not that I'm saying US=Rome, thats just silly, but it does have several hallmarks of an Empire.

Dominic, Manchester, UK

Great article, full of insight - as this writer usually is.

Bring back the draft, and get the little boys off the internet and into the real world (and then they too, might have a meaningful perspective).

sam, edinburgh, scotland

Thank you Mr. Baker for another cogent editorial. We appreciate your candor and the viewpoints expressed. As John in Beijing rightly points out, a Roman General would not have been called before the Senate. He would have been recalled and found conveniently deceased. I would say, even given the political posturing, the Congressional hearings were a cut above that! Nevertheless, the members of the Coalition Forces in Iraq deserve to be lauded, regardless of their nationality. I suspect the United States will continue to stand, as long as its' people remember where they came from! ( A tip of the hat to all our relatives "across the pond").

Thomas Jones, Eden, NY/USA

Well done. Nice to give people the alternative to a global superpower that is a liberal democracy. Any takers?

Michael, Indiana, USA

Michael Murray, Carmel, Indiana

yes, but what will America do when it runs out of cheap oil?

Howard, Johannesburg, RSA

........"And we would know that, for all our high ideals and our soaring rhetoric, there would be only one country with the historical commitment to make massive sacrifices in the defence of the lives and liberty of others, the leadership to mobilise efforts to relieve the suffering and, above all, the economic and military wherewithal to make it happen. "

Chris Hartridge, London, UK

Thanks Mr. Baker.

And to Hubert of London. Maybe you misunderstood Professor Lynn. As it seems to me....most of Latin America wants to come here. And if they do. Under our system their potential to shine will come thru in the years to come. Just like your countrymen did when they immigrated here!

Murph, Madisonville , USA/KY

No the world didn't go dark for a millenium, this only happened to a Western peninsula of the main Asiatic land-mass. In the thousand years following the collapse of the Western Half of the Roman Empire, many kingdoms and empires rose and fell. Some acting as enlightened transmitters of civilised values (and some hated and feared beyond comprehension of present day standards). The fact that these were non-Western civilisations may have been anathema to our forbears, but that does not mean they did not exist. Just as the fact that our forbears destroyed of the Roman Empire does not means that the Romans never existed. And yes, if we say that the dark ages of the West lasted a millenium then that is how long it took for the destroyers of the Romans to step up to the mark and become "civilised".
American policy had been to remove the underpinning of the British Empire - and in its place what? It may be opportune to step up to the mark but are the Americans really up to it?

Terence Park, Burnley,

It is not often that I find myself (uncomfortably) in the same camp as Gerard, but on this particular occasion, I have to agree. For the sake of freedom, democracy and all the other values we so often take for granted, let us hope that the US does indeed survive, as I fear our politicians have neither the inclination nor the foresight to defend our way of life.

Adrian Ryan, Donegal, Ireland

Nobody is really surprised the US adventure in Iraq has gone so wrong. Neither should we be surprised that the Government capable of making such a stupid initial decision is also incapable of finding an exit strategy, let alone a military or political victory.

All of the options at this point look dreadful:-

- if the US withdraws there will be an unprecedented humanitarian crises, regional instability and possible disruption of oil supply as the removal of Hussein has de-stabilised the region for the foreseeable future.

- increasing the US military presence increases the level of insurgency in the Iraq, US body count and Islamic radicalisation/terrorist threats.

- the remaining option and only viable military solution- fully occupying Iraq, turning into a police state and going house to house to stamp out insurgency is politically and morally unacceptable.

Well done Mr Bush, you have shown the same level of skill managing US foreign policy as domestic economic policy!

sid, London, UK

"rebuilding a nation ruined by rapine and savagery"

Well, a nation more ruined by a US invasion and destruction of its infrastructures than by savagery. Or should we have to assume the savagery is American ?

Marc, Paris,

The USA has the second largest empire of any country today - Puerto Rico, the US Virgin Islands, Guam and the other Pacific island possessions. China comes first, with its Tibetan colony.

Frank Upton, Solihull,

I'm sick of all those pseudo-intellectuals who paint America as a new Rome (they have completely incompatible values), and sicker of the ones that try to make Britain the new Greece.

Why did the British Empire never get a go as Rome anyways?

James, Newcastle,

Whatever one may write or say about the US, it has many positive points and some of them are:

1. It is one of the best nations for immigrants. If one is qualified and useful, there are plenty of opportunities in the US. One does not bother too much about color, religion and nation of origin. Of course, wherever we go, we have to play by some rules. This applies in our own places! For me, the US has been better than India!

2. As long as the US attracts the highly qualified and talented people from all over the world, the decline of the US will not happen. There may be setbacks but not much decline in real terms!

3. The true American spirit of adventure, entrepreneurship and hard work will keep the US at the top! Those wishing it to go downhill can keep looking from bottom for a long time to come!

So comparing with Roman empire or others are totally wrong!

Krishna R. Kumar, Udupi, India

But look at it like this...the social scientist, Professor Richard Lynn, has been relegated to Ulster University by 2007.

Al Brunner, Clarkston, Michigan

I thought Petraeus was from Rumenia, instead I saw was Dutch. He is not the last Roman, the last Roman is myth.
The Roman Empire fell when lost Africa, a very important province. The other provinces like Iberia, Gallia, Germania were very expensive and produced revolts. Anyway the US are not Rome and they don't want to be Romans. I don't think some Vandals will come to Washington, the US are a strong country and could play a great role again also may be less global. The US are another civilization: the Romans were more realistic. The Roman Empire were more like the British empire: the Romans didn't change the political and cultural system of countries conquered. They never exported Roman political and cultural system abroad.
Anayway, after the fall of Roman Empire was not so dark: the world went on speaking Latin for centuries and dark times cannot produce wonderful city like in Spain, Italy, France and the Renaissance.

Luca, Venice, Italy

GREAT article. Leave it to a Brit to articulate what's good about America than our own politicians. Thanks!

rhinosaurusrex, New York City,

Hubert.
If the U.S. is Latin America status by 2050,then where does that put Great Britain...or Europe , for that matter?At the rate you are going,I would say Europe will be Afghanistan "status" by 2050.

Rusty Bradley, Jakin, Georgia,USA

I agree with every word and so refreshing to read this in a British newspaper.

Unfortunately the fashionable left will tear you apart.

H, London,

Ah, but IF you had waited for Saddam to die of natural causes and his successor to be done away with before the "inevitable" break up of Iraq, the chances are that any intervention would not have been planned and executed by a bunch of morons who thought you could run foreign policy and military affairs from the same trendy ten-a-penny management textbooks that have destroyed so many jobs at home over the years.

Ian Kemmish, Biggleswade, UK

Perhaps John from Beijing, you should be more careful. A Roman General, at the end of any war campaign, HAD to report in ftont of the senate 1500 years ago.

Matteo, London,

Sudhakaran.
I think G Baker meant Western Europe. Sorry, to the great cultures of the East, whence we got many of our 'inventions' We EU persons are apt to make that mistake

billcarr, Turku, Finland

Yes, it is historicism, as in "The Poverty of Historicism".
(Also, re Hubert's comment - "social scientist", pffffft.)

_Felix, Nottingham,

all this anti-american sentiment - it's envy. and even more pathetic when it comes from americans. shame on you.

pabs, coventry,

Good catch Sudhakaran, but it's almost a typo. He meant Europe for the most part me thinks.

But I hear that foolish analogy between Rome and the US frequently. Been hearing it my whole life (50 years) by worry warts.

Great piece overall. Happy to be of service.

Joe, Georgia, USA

In yours of all Times posts, you should know American history. The US 'bought' Mississipi and Alaska for beans - that disguised the military and political imperatives that forced the 'sales'. Virtually all of what is now west-central America was taken by war from Mexico. Cuba, Hawaii and the Phillipines were sideshows, the great empire of America is America itself - but be in no doubt, it's an empire, stolen in the traditional way.

There are other parallels with Rome. Bush II, isolated by his advisers, is much like Tiberius, isolated in Capri - who voiced what seems to be the new US credo, 'Oderint dum timeant'.

Noel Falconer, COUIZA, France

Nobody pays tribute to the US empire? Tell that to the people all over the world whose labour and resources are ruthlessly exploited by the US transnational corporations backed as required by the imperial legions.

in his risible fantasy account of the criminal Iraq invasion and its aims, Mr Baker completely ignores oil and every one of the million or so innocent Iraqis who have died so far. He betrays an ingenuous racism and chauvinism that would have done any Roman imperialist proud.

Richard Cheeseman, Wellington, New Zealand

On target.

I remind all that if it weren't for the efforts of the US, with the very considerable aid of the UK the ENTIRE world (probable exception of US itself) would be under the heel of one tyrant or another.

Richard McClellan, San Diego, CA

After 2,500 years of known history, we are able to say that there is a clear distinction between "closed" and "open" societies. As in the Roman Empire, people of diverse backgrounds have come together in the USA, voluntarily, as indeed, they have done in Europe. The scale of this racial, cultural and political inclusiveness is unprecedented. The USA and Europe now, will probably be the most open and benign societies the world may ever come to know. Sadly history favours change, not always for the better. Religious fanaticism, climate change, drug addiction, new diseases and unmanageable anarchy could overwhelm humanity as Pax Americana declines. Only then will the world miss the USA. The Islamic world will not be an exception to this - unbelievable as it may sound, in the present mistaken policies of the USA. Remember the regular blood shed accompanying succession wars in Islamic communities ? The USA will look better in the 22nd and 23rd centuries.

Kris iyer, Wellington, Newzealand.

We all recognise the huge power of the USA. With power comes responsibility - will they use that power wisely for the good of all, or will they behave like a bunch of thugs and bullies and cause total and utter chaos in the Middle East?

Answers on a postcard to Gerard Baker...

Jeremy Poynton, Fromeville, 51st State

Hey, I'll just come right out and say it. The world would be a better place if all of it's inhabitants were governed by a western-style democracy. It is inarguable that this form of government raises the standard of living of those forunate enough to live under it. Yes indeed, "the worst form of government with the exception of all others." The attempt to spread our fortune to those less fortunate in the cause. Noble for sure. Plausable, maybe. probable? Well, I fancy myself an optimist..

Steve Rider, Lincoln, Nebraska

I can't help it but Gerard Baker's article reeminds me of John Buchan's "The Path of the King".
I wonder if her has read it. If not he should have a quick glance at it.

Erik B. Christensen, Geneva, Switzerland

Thanks, Mr. Baker, for attempting to sort through the thicket of conflicting comparisons between America and Rome. It's impossible in these times not to wonder at some of the parallels, and to breathe a sigh of relief at the absence of some others.

Just one observation on America's course over the past three generations -- which I've lived. One can always discern the right course for the Nation in seeing what the Left opposes. Being wrong is in their DNA.

Steve, Birmingham, USA/AL

To the commenter who asks which world the writer is talking about in regards to the world going black after the fall of the Roman Empire: It appears that you may have missed the lesson on the Medieval Ages im grade school.

Edgar, Paris, France

*The bigger objection is that America is not much of an empire after all.*
Are you kidding? You really should brush up on Latin American history. And Iran (you remember the oil and Mossadegh--the British begged for the coup) , Indonesia, Viet Nam...

*Not many Americans – not even those who oppose the war – like the idea of calling their generals traitors.*
No, the generals are still under civilian control. It's the neocons who are in charge. A recent poll found majority support to impeach Cheney, and 46% to impeach Bush. 'War criminal' is used more than 'traitor', actually.

*What would we think of as our responsibilities?*
The US is not in Iraq out of moral responsibility, and neither is Britain, which agreed to fixing the facts around the policy. It's about oil and strategic control over the Middle East. The responsibility of "the West" is to stop syphoning off the natural resources of other countries, and to stop pretending that that's not happening.

LatAm, Washington, DC

The analogy with Rome will be more apt by focusing on the differences. America has never made up its mind on 2 key issues that confront all would-be empires: isolationism vs internationalism, self-interest vs (moral?) wider mission.
If America is to continue on its overseas military adventures, it needs to have the gumption and resolve for the long haul and be truthful to its citizens about what this entails, i.e. drafting a large infantry capacity and not letting CNN/polling organisations dictate its policy. Secondly, it should either frame its policy in self-interest or on moral policy, not an unpalatable soup of them both. Moral policy cannot entail Guantanamo, rendition, delighting in snubbing multi-lateral oraganisations, torturing and trigger happiness among its soldiers, self-interest should entail enabling its soldiers to accomplish their mission by any means necessary - the Romans would have viewed Iraq as one of many insurgencies they would have vanquished simultaneously.

jas, london, uk

Comparisons of America with the Roman Empire are misguided. A better analogy is the Roman Republic, which itself lasted some five hundred years. During this time Rome developed an envious reputation as a state built on the rule of Law and for Roman citizens (not slaves) there were safeguards on their liberties. The Republic first of all morphed into an oligarchy and this led to several civil wars. The last of these, between Julius Caesar and Pompey doomed what was left of the Republic. Caesar's nephew Ocatavius became the first Roman Emperor and to the disgust of the surviving Republicans was declared a god.
It is worth noticing, though, that the largest part of the territory that was to become the Empire was conquered during the Republican period. Very little was added by the Emperors themselves. In short, the Roman 'Empire' was always in decline from its inception. The lesson for America is don't trust oligarchs and beware of families with dynastic ambitions: Bush and Kennedy?

Adrian Gilbert, Tonbridge, England

Of Cours the US is Rome. Not the Rome of Gibbon's 'Decline and Fall', however. No, the Rome I'd compare this to is the Rome which gibbered and soiled itself at the thought of the mighty Jurgurtha, a petty African king who defeated several Roman armies before being brought down himself - by Gaius Marius, a Roman.

Don, Ipswich, UK

Mr. Baker,

Thanks for your kind words. If you're ever in Seattle give us a shout and I'll stand you a pint of whatever.

Charles Mohseni, Seattle, WA

Sober, balanced and brilliant. It encourages me that such views are held in the UK, and hopefully somewhere on the Continent. This American looks at the world not as a plantation, but as the source of potential inspiration waiting to be freed from intolerance and hatred. This is an honest, possibly naive world-view held by many here. And, by the way, Professor Lynn must be quite ignorant of what he "professes" to be his subject matter. Not going to happen.

Ward, Atlanta, Georgia, USA

Sudhakaran, I believe he was talking about the West, something we refer to as the "Dark Ages"

Mike, lenexa,, ks

We Americans are getting tired of "doing empire" all by ourselves. I agree that our "allies" are being very short-sighted in constantly criticizing U.S. actions, while ignoring the belligerence of truly scary nations (e.g. Iran). If Europe doesn't support us financially, politically and logistically in Iraq and elsewhere NOW, Europe will have to face Russia, Iran et.al. alone.

Elaine Hassid, Memphis, , Tennessee

You will recall that in about 49 BC Rome became a dictatorship.

Julius Ceaser Established himself as Emperor and effectivly neutered the Senate as a check on his power. We have wittnessed similar attempts in this country. Only the manifold in-competencies and Texas braggadocio of this administration have saved us. Will we be so lucky with a conniving Hilary at the helm? She makes far fewer mistakes.

Jim Walton, Wasshington DC,

Thank you Mr. Baker. Every once in a while it is nice to have someone acknowlege America's sacrifices for others. On a separate note, it is a shame that some of the posters here (and I suspect they are a proxy for many) have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, particularly with respect to correlaries (or lack thereof) with Roman history. Best regards.

Harry, Wilton,

I would think that the Brits, the French, the Dutch, and other once strong empiric nations would see more parallels to Rome in their recent history than Americans will ever see with the civilization that did give birth to many of the ideas that are the foundation of US democracy. I always find it interesting that the US became a world power on the heels of the collapse of the European empires in the Middle and Far East and Africa, inheriting a great mess in a vacuum of power that doesn't offer the former empires much credibility in discussions of world peace.

Robin, upstate NY,

Well said Mr.Baker

dicky, johannesburg, rsa

Thank you, Mr. Baker, for your thoughts. I welcome any attempt at clearing the fog in the muddled minds that seem to surround us. I do not believe, however, that there’s much hope for the collective of muddled minds know as the Democratic Party. They are now being driven, herd-like, by their radical left wing, which in turn appears to be deeply afflicted with a socio-political form of Munchausen’s syndrome.

MAF, New York,

John in Beijing, one can't begin to guess what you're referring to.

Meanwhile, what is empire? Well, if the U.S. took its cue from, say, 20th-century Japan in its East Asian ventures, you would see mass kidnapping and rape of Iraqi women, hideous medical experiments on Iraqi prisoners, outright theft of oil, factories in which Iraqis toiled as slaves, forced marches of prisoners through scorching deserts, all Iraqis forced to speak English and change their names to American-sounding ones, American soldiers on Iraqi streets forcing Iraqis to bow to the American flag, Americans singing songs about being descended from the sun and therefore superior to all races, the practice of Islam outlawed and punished by death, killing contests of Iraqi civilians by American soldiers, and a hungry eye out on every bordering state to spread the atrocities.

jill, oceanside, ca, usa

With reference to Sudhakaran's comment: The writer should travel intercontinental and check national & history museums on the way.

Manuel, Berlin, Germany

I know why your article is biased, of course, and, with respect, it is somewhat superficial. I am sure that America will be an influence for as long as Rome, but it is naive to set up a horizon of that distance. One would hope that in the none too distant future America will be able to live with itself without having to export it s own problems under the guise of some socially concerned policy, but at the moment it isn t easy to see how this might come about. It is worth observing that most of the places that Britain and America have needed to discipline in recent times had survived for hundreds of years without much drama, ie Beirut. What caused their destabilisation?

Henry Percy, London, UK

Japan who?

Steve, Attleboto, USA / Masssachusetts

Mr. Baker is, of course spot on. I fear the reader from Japan should read some Roman and world history before offering critique. We didn't call them the Dark Ages on a lark. And our Texan friend is a bit behind in his British socialogy--the Brits haven't been empire minded for more than half a century. They are just trying to survive, as we Yanks are, the onsalught of a radical religion AND the silly diversity notions that allow it to take foothold.

Hmmmph! Footbaths indeed.

Michael Cox, Phoenix, AZ USA

Thank you Mr. Baker. This is an excellent piece of well thought out opinion. Realists understand that the world is a nasty place where brutish mobs and left wing defeatist sentiments are capable of undermining the most noble of nations. America's leading role on the global stage is very clear and history will judge those who choose to denigrate her during this seminal period in world history.

Harry Vann Phillips, Carlisle, Pennsylvania, USA

Good article, Im not a very good writer but I happen to be pretty good with the logic. See the difference between comparing Rome's foreign excursions and ours is falacious at the core for one major reason, and that is the type of war's that they fought and the peace keeping supposed war that we fight. The Romans would have burned down whole cities and butchered all the men in them if their was any resistance, but we as Americans go the route of killing just the offender not the populace that gave birth to the offender. This is a complex statement and I see the character thingy going down as I type so I will not be able to explain it, but I think the US and other countries need to hold accountable the ENTIRE population that nurtures and clothes the offender WHEN AT WAR. This would allow for the Iraqi's to take personal responsibility for their own indirect actions, and also pull the western world back into the right way of war. Iraq war = police action.

James, placentia, ca

What nonsense - " when Rome fell, the world went dark for the best part of a millenium" - your writer should to try read some history before he blabbers again. Which world is he talking about?

Sudhakaran, Ise, Japan

Thank you, Mr. Baker.

Pete Scarvelis, Cleveland, Ohio

Empire schmempire. This is such an obsession with the British because - admit it - no matter how much you might deny or disown it, empire is in the very marrow bones. Even in the Lefties who are flagellating themselves about it.

Michael G., Fort Worth, Tx. USA

Mr. Baker, how sad am I to see your role of Republican Party apologist reduced to a jumble of name-calling tenuous connections and breathless, terrified hope.

American politics - the cheap version practised by the past few administrations - sickens more than your cartoonish "pessimists, equipped with their Fodor’s guidebooks, their summer school diplomas, and their DVD collection of Cecil B. DeMille movies". Many good, well-educated and thoughtful people fear for the future of this country.

Your "Rome’s domination of the known world lasted about 500 years" and your "Imagine if the US had never been there" are the most rotten of straws to grab.

However, I do commend you - in these most difficult of times for a Republican toady - for your contined efforts in the fields of flimflam and doubletalk.

John A. Blackley, Austin, TX, USA

Perhaps the author should consult his history books a little more carefully if he believes a Roman soldier or bureaucrat would be hauled before the senate 1500 years ago.

John , Beijing, China

What is Professor Lynn's criteria for such conclusion? The US attitude is one of moving forward, discovering, enhancing & improving. I cannot equate many of these qualities to Latin America.

John, Durban,

Thanks brother man. Well considered and well said. Nevertheless, I await the goth hordes and their usual whine on this one.

The Col.

Raymond Briant, Princeton, NJ/USA

The social scientist, Professor Richard Lynn of Ulster University relegates the US to Latin American status by 2050

Hubert, London, England