Didn't LBJ say that Democrats would lose the South for a generation because of his reforms on Civil Rights? As a UK citizen (from Wales) I've always considered LBJ to be one of the most courageous Politicians of my time for this most-creditable decision alone. Perhaps the South is reverting to it's pre 1960's voting habits?
By the way, my wife and I enjoyed our driving-around Mid and Northern Florida recently where we were made to feel most welcome.

Graham Boucher, Bridgend, Wales, UK.

It is remarked in the South is that the War of Northern Aggression was fought to keep Atlanta from happening.

Bill McLean, Charleston, South Carolina, USA

Umm, John Edwards was senator from North Carolina, a state whose history and politics have been very different from SC's, and mostly humbler.

The South has become urban. Atlanta is the obvious example, but even Birmingham, Alabama is now best known for its big University of Alabama-Birmingham, which is now the state's biggest single employer. Florida is a problem case. Once a sort of hayseed annex to Georgia (parents once sent their kids to university in Georgia), it's now hardly a southern state at all.

David Martin, VERO BEACH , Florida

Interesting view, though one would have to have lived here for quite awhile whilst taking an interest in politics to have a more comprehensive understanding of our system. It could be viewed more as a pendulum of sorts, at it's root being deeply embedded in the psyche of America's "silent majority" the idea of "fairness." One would have to have lived here long enough to become immune to the both the Conservative and Liberal's extremist talking heads. Those you see on the tele snippets don't have as much sway as you might imagine. Elections here are not won and lost by what someone may do, but rather what they WON'T do. It's a rather complex and subtle thought, though if you view Bill Clinton's legacy and think about what is written above you may get an idea. He was, and still is, the consumate American Politician. What's more, I don't even like the man!, but I'll give credit where credit is do.

Trible, Keyport, New Jersey

John Edwards, while born in South Carolina, is a former North Carolina Senator. And Chapel Hill, NC where John Edwards lives and works, is as liberal as Berkeley, CA

Stephen Rifkin, Raleigh, USA, NC

I am a born and bred Southerner. We Southerners are crazy people. Belligerent, self righteous, courteous and cruel, passionate and ignorant, loud and obstinate, dog fighting, horse loving idealists. Combine that with dark forested mountains and murky swampland and you have a recipe for Strange, Creepy People. Oh...it's a great place for creative, restless spirits...and Southerners make great writers and artists and musicians and actors and charismatic church leaders...but it's a terrible, terrible place to find a President. In the next election, I think most Americans will be smart enough to vote for the candidate who has the lowest level of support in the South.

Susan Widdowson, Newnan, Georgia, United States

Brits doing American politics - about as likely to get the
analysis correct as Americans doing British politics.
Here's the deal:
In 2008 the Iraq war will largely be won and troops will
be coming home, but Iran will be the next target, they will
not be allowed to get the bomb.
The Presidential election in October will pit Hillary Clinton
against either Rudy Guiliani or Fred Thompson. Everybody
else can go home.
Whomsoever wins in October won't take office until late
January in 2009.
Before then, a pre-emptive strike against Iran is very probable,
unless they stop trying to get the bomb.
Depending on who wins that election, the USA will then
try to sue for peace, or finish that war off.
That choice will affect the rest of the world, regardless of
protestations issued by those non-involved countries.
One notices that your lib-dems promise to "stand up to Bush",
which is interesting, because he won't be asking you
or the lib dems for anything.

Dave M., london, USA / UK

I assume, Mr. Small ,that you are alluding to the president who is from Texas ( kind of , sort of ) when you refer to southern states controlling foreign policy. By the way, we who are from the Deep South count Texas as a " western " state, so don't hold all of us southerners accountable for the world's lack of stability. Most of us down here, except for the red neck minority who get all the press, are very glad the southern states did not leave the Union!
G. Desselle, Georgia,USA

G Desselle, Moultrie, USA/GA

Dear Sir,

Great article, except when you refer to the 2000 and 2004 elections. In 2000 Al Gore really won the elections, because (as later recounts have shown) he won Florida, a southern state. Of course the Democrats were outwitted by Katherine Harris and the rest of the Bush bunch. In 2004 Kerry conceded much too soon in spite of all the irregularities (e.g. computer "glitches", voter disenfranchisement, especially in Ohio). Remember the exit polls showed he won convincingly - a sure sign according to scientists!

Hubert Schaab, Zwolle, Netherlands

Those who think the south is unlivable without air conditioning should try Chicago without central heating. The south has low heating bills in the winter to compensate for the air conditioning in the summer. Funny how northerners always think heating their homes is natural, while cooling them is wrong.

M.C., Virginia, USA

Ward,
most of the musical forms you cite had their origins in Europe.
The Western is a true American art form

Richard, London, England

To Ward and his list of American cultural innovations:

While I agree with most of your choices, several of which - Bebop, Bop, Post Bop, and Fusion - are in fact jazz, I take exception at your inclusion of Hip Hop and Rap in your list.

These are hardly forms of culture, unless you think bragging and advocating violence in childish ditties chanted over someone else's basslines and drumbeats reveal the higher faculties of mankind.

And, yes, we Brits are used to feeling superior to everyone, mainly because we are - and if we hadn't you Aussies wouldn't be where you are today.

Karl M. Baxter, Inverurie,

Well said Ward from Australia! Please add techno and house to the list of truly American musical innovations.

Philippe, London, UK

I remember walking in the Blue Ridge and coming out of the woods on the side of a hill overlooking a small town one Sunday morning. The trees were all turning a golden brown and the distant sound of singing came from a small white church with a cluster of cars about. I remember the polite friendly people in the town, the clean streets and the American flags outside the post office and the school which all seemed to say that here were a people who took some pride in their home

OK, one can't generalise about a region as large and diverse as the Old Confederacy, but that little valley looked (to me at least) to be a pretty good place to live.

H, London,

You said it: "The political values of the South have become (in many respects) the values of the nation." And it's more true every day as society pushs the extremes further out.

BobHall, NYC/NY, USA

Hey Ward from Australia, you were doing quite well until you slipped your own jibe in at the end. Chip on both shoiulders, eh mate?

Jamie Gilmour, Bolton, UK

Actually, Florida is a separate country, neither wholly northern, southern, or North American. And, notwithstanding individuals such as Northwood or Scarvelis, (or perhaps because of such individuals) entirely preferable to the stilted, repressed, insular, shall we say, provincial, backwaters of the Notheast and the Midwest.

Lance K, Tampa, FL, US

Your snapshot is fleeting.

The main problem with the analysis is that polls and sentiment and magazine covers all skew to the left. But in the game's "fourth quarter", crunch-time in November, the American electorate goes right every time. In presidential elections that is; varies in the off-years.
Exceptions: Bush One lost because an unlikely third party - Perot - split the Conservative vote. Carter won because Ford was standing in for the rest of Nixon's disgrace. After JFK's assassination a stunned country voted to maintain with Johnson. So there were circumstances...

There are serious problems stemming from 6 years of GOP rule. Iraq, corruption, deficits, illegal immigration. However, despite the origins, voters trust Conservatives to handle problems. They do not trust liberals with immigration reform (amnesty), nor with government (over-)spending. The chickens will come home to roost, they always do. Mr Baker will be "re-writing" at the end of 08.

Jay Bryant, Phoenix, Arizona

As a Westerner who migrated to the South, I can tell you that this article is sloppily written and poorly researched. The most obvious is Edwards is a senator from NC, not SC as the author suggests.

Also, to suggest that the Dems "can easily win the presidency with a combination of the Northeast, the Midwest and the West" is total poppycock. As proved in 2000 and 2004, the Dems can only BARELY win without the South, which is constantly growing at the expense of the Northeast and more liberal states. If I'm not mistaken, TX, FL and GA will all gain electoral votes, while NY, MA and other Blue States will lose them after 2010. This means the South will become even MORE important in future elections.

Finally, the author says Reid and Pelosi are pro-gay and pro-abortion. Once again, poor research. While Pelosi a lefty, the Mormon Harry Reid has one of the most pro-life records of any Dem in the Senate and has stated on the Senate floor his opposition to gay marriage.

Steve, South Carolina, USA

Ward from Australia, i take my hat off to your for a fine comment. Gerard baker has to work on his factual analysis... he got cultural dimension wrong as well as the origins of Sen Edwards.
For the rest of the analysis was quite good.

tk, geneva,

Reverse discrimination: In 2005 a similar incident happened in Gaffney, SC except it was 5 white boys that attacked 1 black male walking down the rd. These boys are all now in jail sentenced to 15 years. They too were from 15-18 years old. Jessie Jackson came here and wanted them prosecuted to the full extent of the law and wanted a rally here like he managed to get in LA only for the victim that time. The rally did not happen.

Why does Jackson support the victim in one incidence and in the other want full prosecution. The only difference is the color of the victims skin in each case. The black victim in SC walked away from the incident, later went to the hospital and was released. He is now also serving time and had prior trouble with the law.

Ask Sharpton why the segregated neighborhoods in NYC - a resident who lives there told me they formed black separate communities because it concentrated their political power and gave them more clout.

Josephine Lindsay Bass, Cape Canaveral, USA/Florida

The demographics of the old South are also changing - Virginia and North Carolina especially. Highly educated types from throughout the country are moving to northern Virgina and "The Triangle" region of North Carolina, while many northeastern pensioners are relocating to eastern regions of those states.

Beth, New York, USA, New York

I am just glad for change

simon Lasisi, foster city, CA, USA

I think you've overstated the political importance of the South, and therefore its subsequent death. We have the electoral college which ensures that no region of the country can dominate the others. The South will be no more and no less important in the next election than it has always been. Having lived all over the US, I can say there is a lot of bias against the South, mostly unwarranted. There is some racism here, as there is everywhere, but there is also an acceptance of differences I haven't found even in the more liberal parts of the country - ditto for the warmth and friendliness. Why might have got me shunned in my home state of Michigan is simply regarded here as a unique part of my personality. I agree with Murph from Kentucky - a spread of Southern values would do the country some good.

Evelyn, Georgia, USA

Given the fact that the religious extremists from the South have done more harms to US and the whole world than Al Qaeda has, I would love to say: the South deserve to sink to toilet until they figure out how to be tolerant to others.

Carl, Seattle, WA/US

Interesting article, but it shows a clear mis understanding of US politics. To start, No candidate has won the White house in the last 50 years without winning at least some southern states....and the way it looks now Clinton and Obama would win 0...Which means serious trouble for the democrats in 08 if Rudy gets the nomination...Thats because Rudy can appeal to both liberals in the east and southerners. That is the dems worse nightmare scenario in 2008. Also because Rudy is a man of accomplishment and Hillary is an empty skirt riding on her husbands coatails.

Oh, By the way...I have visited many corners of the UK and have met many Brits that would make the worse Alabama redneck look like a member of the house of windsor.

The south has actually become a progressive, enlightened part of American society. It's unfortunate that many in the UK have developed such a biased, negative view of an entire region of America solely based on their dislike of one man (GW Bush).

Travers, Dallas, USA

I'm actually a military brat and, as such, have lived all over the country. I was born in California and lived there for only a few weeks. I have never understood the way most people speak of thier regions. In the case of government, I would like to say that I always vote for whichever candidate will uphold national values. (By which I mean the freedoms and rights we are given as U.S. citizens.)

Carreen Topper, Deployed,

Make's one think of the old saying, "The South Shall Rise Again".

Acacia, Houston, Texas

George Bush is not a Texan. We don't claim him. To us, he is a Yankee from Connecticut, just like his daddy.

While Texas was technically a part of the Old Confederacy, it's different from the "South." You don't see the Stars and Bars flown here. It's the Lone Star. We are the West with a western mentality. Though we do say "y'all."

S Jones, Austin, Texas

“And stop sniping at the British”

I am amused at thin-skinned PSF from London who gets snide at Wade of Australia for simply pointing out the rich veins of roots music that came out of the American South.

Amused because British media and bloggers are utterly gleeful in downgrading Americans (and French, Germans, Aussies) at every turn -- it has become a national pastime.

Part of this gleefulness must arise from a tremendous sense of relief, that the world is focused on America’s problems rather than on the reckless British Empire that wrecked havoc on the world since it began marauding back in the 17th century.

The Middle East, Ireland, India, even tiny Islas Malvinas in South America may still be recovering from British aggression and imperialism. But there’s always time to ‘instruct’ an Australian colonist on how to behave in the company of Brits.

Regarding marketing, yes, Americans are good at it, but the British perfected the modern use and application of propaganda, which remains the most cynical and destructive form of marketing. I especially loved the British soldiers having cups of tea with the Catholics in Belfast in 1969, and doling out candy to the children of Bagdad in 2003.

All of the musical genres Ward cites were in fact invented, cultivated and synthesized in the American South, a fertile region of Black, Arcadian/Cajun, Scottish, Irish, Jewish and various immigrant influences contributing to the American sound.

The American sound, I am quick to add, was deeply complemented by the “British Invasion” of the 1960s, and most British musicians (Lennon/McCartney, Clapton, Jagger, Mayall, George Shearing, et al) will readily acknowledge an American influence. That, by the way, was the only British invasion worth celebrating in my lifetime, Iraq included.

Gabriel Jonquin, Pittsburgh, PA, USA

John Edwards was a Senator from North Carolina for one term. Judging from polls taken at the time there was little chance he could have run successfully for a second term. He was very unpopular in North Carolina at the end of his term. During his tenure the major telecom corporations-IBM, Northern Telecom, Motorola, Lucent laid off tens of thousands of employees in North Carolina but Edwards was focused on a run for the presidency and rarely showed up in his home state or at work in the Senate preferring to study hog farming and corn agriculture in Iowa or the concerns of trial lawyers to the problems of his constituents. Most of us in the South are convinced Edwards would do about as well in the presidency as he did in the Senate.

Robert F. Flanagan, Beaufort, South Carolina

Darling Gerard,

Please put away the tar brush away. America has given the world in culture far more than jazz. It is also unfair to lump the southern states together as mutually inclusive. Each state has its own identify. I am sure there are Virginians who are still mixing the moonshine in the mountains in the southwest part of the state, but the top two richest counties in America (Fairfax and Loudon) are in Virginia. Northern Virginia has been described as silicon valley east. Virginia has also become a poster girl progressiveness -- hey, Virginia elected an African American as governor more than a decade ago. We all do not live on grits and BBQ here.
Would you like a glass of wine ... Virginia wine, that is.

Marlene, Alexandria, Virginia, USA

"Borat" is not even American much less Southern. He's from your homeland, I believe.

Robert, atlanta, U.S.A.

Gordon from England - it seems you Brits will never be able to undestand that in the US where you are born is not necessarily equal to where you are from. Someone who was born in, say, Chicago, but spent their entire adult life living and working in, say, Boston, would be considered by most Americans to be from Boston. Rarely someone may ask, "where were you born?" as a matter of curiosity, but it would be undestood that you are now from Boston; a subtle, but critical distinction that most foreigners observing the US rarely if ever understand. Hillary is more from the South than anywhere else because that is where she spent most of her adult life and career. Being from the South for so long may have some substantive bearing on her future performance as president if elected. Where she was born does not. Of course, as a politician, she may claim she is from any number of places where she has lived and worked for long periods, whatever best suits the occasion and gets the votes.

Jason, Boston, MA/USA

Hillary Clinton is actually from Illinois. I'd say that Bill Clinton is definitely southern, but marrying a southerner and being first lady to a southern governor does not make one of southern family or upbringing.

Also, I'd like to point out that John Edwards was a North Carolina Senator, not South Carolina as the article suggests.

Amber K, Boston, MA

Having grown up in the area, Washington, D.C. and Virginia may have once been once been apart of the historic south but the times have changed. Anyone from Virginia will tell you it is clearly separated into two states, northern VA and southern VA. Northern Virginia and D.C. are no longer capable of being considered part of the south.

Joshua, Fairfax, Northern Virginia, USA

I don't think demography is the issue in the decline of Dixie's influence . The true answer stems from the fact that the south only makes up 25% of the country. For the republican's southern strategy to work they had to also get votes in the west and northeast. This all went well until the Bush II era when southern republicans gained control of the presidency and congress. The resulting emphasis on conservative social values offended socially liberal republicans in other regions of the country, which caused a dramatic shift towards the democrats.

Fred, Washington, DC USA

I think the writer is a bit off on his migration patterns within the US. True, the West has increasing population, but so too has the Southern states. The writer neglects this, and it makes his ensuing points-- well, pointless.

Most of these population gains are at the expense of the Northeastern and Midwest states... typically more liberal. Red states (tending to lean Republican) are gaining in population, but also are becoming slightly "purple."

But it's not purely an issue of populations shifts/gains out West or South-- rather, a population shift from cities to the suburbs to the exburbs. Check out a county-by-county map of the 2004 election if you get a chance...

The "industrial North" and "agricultural South" notion is taking a beating. Southern metro areas, such as Atlanta, Charlotte, Raleigh, and many costal cities are gaining population as fast as the infrastructure allows them to. Detroit, Philadelphia, and others are waning in population-- and thus influence.

Brett, Fredericksburg, VA

Deliverance is set in Appalachia, not the South. Other than that, good column.

Sean Dongre, San Francisco, CA

John Edwards is from North Carolina, and here in the South he is what we call a "Rich Boy".

Robert E Lee, Augusta, Ga

When one looks at the present day south, it represents what hundreds of thousands of confederate soldiers died to prevent.
That is rather sarcastic, but the reality is that many southern states (and my state of Tennessee), is being invaded by many people from other parts of the country, especially Florida (which is not considered "the South" other than in a geographic sense), many of whom are rude and "unsouthern". Being Southern is hard to verbally describe; it is a way of being, and of thinking. Friendliness, hospitality, caring, and sincerity are good words, but true southern hospitality is felt when it is present.
It is a lot like Ireland, with better food!

Doug, Fayetteville, Tennessee, USA

The single greatest change in the domographics of the Southeastern United States has been the influx of Northerners, who have moved there since the advent of air conditioning. Many parts of the South are becomming indistinguishable from the Northeast. The same can be said of the Southwest, often referred to as the "sunbelt", which, since the advent air conditioning, is being rapidly populated by affluent people from the Weat Coast and the Northeast. In short, the demographics of the United States are rapidly becomming homogenized, to the detrement of former regional distinctiveness.

Robert Guttman, Tappan, New York, USA

John Edwards, a native of SC, was the populist Senator from NC. I agree with the demographer above about the move south. I'm surrounded by Yankees, how.

Max, Raleigh, North Carolina (USA)

*Sigh*

So many illiterates, so little time.....

The "South" is still in ascendancy. And I'm from PA and NYC. The problem isn't gay rights or abortion or Evangelicals. It isn't even Republican mismanagement. It's just the nature of political cycles. The "South" is taking a breather. The growth they've had has led to maturity and introspection. As with all things, they are now reviewing their accomplishments and deciding what works and what doesn't. Gays are extremely prevalent (and proudly displayed in some major communities) in the South. Blacks are no longer downtrodden, and its their racist opponents who find they have the toughest time. Evangelicals had less sway than the media gave them credit for.
That said, lack of a Southern strategy will doom whoever is running for president. You will still have to win almost all of the Southern states to win it all. Not every blue state is willing to vote for Hillary or Obama........so risk the South at your detriment.

Rick, nyc, ny

John Edwards is from North Carolina and represented North Carolina, not South Carolina, in the Senate.

Jennifer, Raleigh, North Carolina

The author very conemiently overlooked Ron Paul from Houston Texas.

There is a very very good chance Ron Paul will be our next President.

bgarrett, Louisiana, usa

well, scott, i use to cringe at such blanket statement about southerners (rereads, oh evangelicals!) as someone southern born, southern bred and hopefully never southern dead (there's a reason i escaped to new york), i have to say your comments are dead on. carry on brother!

north guinea hills, Brooklyn, ny

How it is to be hoped that Mr Baker is correct, and the South is confined to the political wilderness for the forseeable future, and the US can rejoin the 21st Century as a peace-loving, democratic, tolerant nation.

Timothy I Mullen, Stoke-on-Trent, UK

In response to some of the comments:
While I surely do love AL, Kara in Mobile's understanding of Southern history is appalling and she obviously takes a purely "Gulf" view of the South.

Jim in DC, I think you meant KY when you said TN was a border state- remember the TN Volunteers?

VA is in the South! The descendents of the Cavaliers that came to VA settled the Carolinas as well. The genesis of the "Southern Accent" is in the VA piedmont. The most revered Southerners are from VA (Lee, Jackson). And Richmond was the capital of the Confederacy! Leave NOVA and see just how "Southern" VA is.

As far as the article goes: I don't think the South is the only Republican ghetto. Dissatisfaction with the Republicans amongst conservatives is sweeping the nation. We are tired of the "say-one-thing-do-another" approach of the Republicans. Conservatives are looking for alternatives.

Finally, it's true, unless you are a Southerner born and bred you will never understand the South

Erika, Staunton, Virginia

What about Ron Paul? Real Texan, real candidate.

Erik, new hope, pa

I was born, raised, and except for a 5 month period living and studying in Europe, have lived my entire life in North Carolina. While I will admit that most every stereotype stems at least in part from some prior truth, not every, not even most of people living in the South are bible thumping, backward thinking rednecks. It's a misconception that is quite frustrating to the many educated, progressives that call the South home; the conservative lean that is being attributed (blamed?) on the South is a mindset that can be found in nearly every corner of the country. Look at the voting results of the past few elections, nearly every primarily rural area votes Republican, and urban area votes Democrat. It just so happens that the South has traditionally been primarily rural. Some of the influential progressive political minds in this country hail from the South (Lewis Black, Stephen Colbert, Bill Clinton, etc...) I agree with the Texans, please don't include them with us.

Chris, Raleigh, North Carolina

Good riddance. Also (to Debbie), Hillary Clinton is originally from Chicago.

Jim, Washington, DC

Trust me, NY can have Hillary! She tries her best to be whoever she needs to be depending on which campaign location she is in at the moment. However, one thing she will never pull off is being southern! Go Fred Thompson!

Tommy, Columbia, South Carolina

If you notice, Scott, I said that I wonder whether we should vote at all. Voting for Bush was obviously the wrong decision. And your rather vicious caricature of evangelical values demonstrates the point about Democratic supporters--many of whom have clearly made little effort to understand what we actually believe--holding us in contempt. I don't believe in making black people second-class citizens, turning women into nothing but "baby factories," putting gay people in jail, etc. And neither does any churchgoer I know.

You know nothing about me except that I have described myself as an evangelical Christian, and yet you assume you know everything about what I believe, and that it is all evil. I do not presume to know everything about another person based on hearing that he is gay. I would appreciate it if gay people would extend me the same courtesy. Most of the ones I've met (and believe it or not, I've met quite a few) have done so.

D.L. Anderson, Crossett, AR/U.S.A.

Mr. Baker makes a strong point, and I mainly agree with him. But, what he fails to understand is that the South has not been simply a region since Reconstruction. The ascendant Mountain West was settled by Southerners. And many Yankees have even seen that the South stood for a literal interpretation of the Constitution and ,by defying the Constitution-killing Lincoln and his Radical Republicans, fought a fight of which only now most Americans are seeing the importance. Contrary to polpular belief, we do not hate gays or abortionists, we are not unabashed warhawks and we do not all go among the heathen hordes preaching an often contradictory gospel. We merely feel, as we always have, that each adult man or woman is qualified to live his life without government interference. We only ever wanted to be left alone. Lincoln and his Yankee hordes proved that wasn't possible. Now we will take the offensive; politically or otherwise.

Chris, Dallas, TX

Things are changing sloooowly in the South. I was born and raised in South Carolina and live now in Atlanta, and I'm a flaming liberal. Admittedly, Atlanta is a liberal enclave in a conservative region, but things are changing. The perception that white = Republican and black = Democrat is rapidly shifting here. About fifteen years ago, I voted in a primary in South Carolina (out in the country where I grew up) and you got in one line to vote in the Democratic primary, and another for the Republican. Every eye flashed to me when I got in the Democratic line: everyone thought maybe the little white girl was lost! But, like I said, that's slowly changing. The more damaging association is that Christian = Republican (and that the Republican party = flags, fireworks, apple pie and good red-blooded American men). That's the great victory of the Republican party since Ronald Reagan.

SC, Atlanta, GA

Bets are in! Thecoming Democratic duo will be Rodham/Obama or viceversa. But they will take a sovereign beating by Republican "drk horse" the Hon. Ron Paul of Texas. So may it be. And for the welfare of the world.

Manuc, Buenos Aires, Argentina

Facinating, insightful article.

Emma H., Ottawa, CAN

If you ain't been born and raised in the South you're just passin through. The Yankee who said that Tennessee was a border state, WRONG, Tennessee is known as the volunteer state. Who fought at the Alamo? I really dislike giving Yankees history lessons.

Louise, Savannah, GA

You seem to be saying that eating pork rinds, wearing cowboy boots and impeccable manners are mutually exclusive. I fail to understand how. I have met wonderful people with perfect manners (and perfect pedigrees too!) who drive beat-up trucks and wear boots, and I have also known complete boors who have the same kind of pedigrees. Please understand that where I come from, food predilections transcend class, and cowboy boots can be pretty sharp. Check out the Lucchese line.

Vera, Pleasantville, New York

Hillary Clinton is a YANKEE. She is a nice, Methodist girl from Chicago (just listen to her accent), bless her heart. No article could ever hope to explain to outsiders who and what we are about. The reader from Mississippi had it right in saying that people pass through and see what they want to see. Another reader mentioned manners, and I concur. Children in the South are taught to show respect, even if they do not actually feel respect for someone, and parents are not afraid of their children. The saying is "Northen mothers tell their child
ren 'you can' and Southern mothers tell their children 'you will.'"

Vera, Pleasantville, New York

As a Southerner I'm surprised that the USA has had only one civil war. As many historians will agree, the conflict predates the shelling of Ft. Sumter. It goes back 1000 years because it is actually an Anglo-Saxon v. Celt conflict. That theory may also explain why the Civil War has not yet ended. But with so many new nationalities added to the melting pot, as opposed to the original English v. Scottish that was the first war, I'm surprised there have not been more. Just yesterday I met a Nigerian who was pro-Bush and pro-war. He explained that he got it because he could appreciate freedom. He had a point. And it seems that Yankees don't want to hear that point. The idea of freedom undermines the so-called "democratic" vision for America, which is nothing less than Soviet. We are disliked because we like freedom. Believe me, many in Britain, and even France along with friends of mine from my childhood in Germany understand that Soviet or Sharia rule is the illness, not the cure.

Chris, Dallas, TX

Gerald,

I liked your statistical information about the factor that the South has had in the Presidential elections but I was a little puzzled how you drew the conclusion that the shift of power was going West and to the Rockies? The Rockies especially are a sparsely populated area of the United States with one, maybe two cities over a million people plus there is such a disconnecdt between them and the rest of the country. Looking demographically at the Western states it seems highly unlikely that there would be a great influence due to the fact that there is hardly any conflict settled much less the fact that the state of California is trillions of dollars in debt.

My advice to you would be to look at the electoral votes of States over the past few years. This will show that there is an increase in many Southern states while the Midwest is decreasing in population as well as the East. It seems like Republicans would have a landslide victory. But there might be another change...

Lee, Birmingham, Alabama

Thanks for stereotyping all southerners, Scott from San Fran. Seems like the narrow minded one here is you.

Steve, Los Angeles, CA

Hilary Clinton IS a northerner - Born Chicago, Illinois.

Gordon Munday, Gerrards Cross, England

Conversations about the South remind me of conversations about Israel/Palestine; otherwise reasonable folks become beligerant and insane when drawn into the conversation.

Of course, maybe it's just the anonymity of the internet that does it...

Chris Anderson, Buffalo Grove, Illinois, US

but Gore was reared in DC and it shows. None of these candidates were popular amongst Afro-Americans. In the South even during slavery the races always mixed, there has always been a wary sense of friendship--even during Jim Crow. The living rules in most of the 20th century were different as well: in the South--get as close as you want, but not too high,' whereas in the North, it was the opposite--get as high as you wont, but not too close.

Rambling a bit. Ms. Welty was correct: the South is a place, everywhere else is a direction.

bob, phoenix, AZ

D.L. Anderson, (first response to this column, at the very bottom), that "reputation as the main supporters of an incompetent president who has done little good for us or for much of anyone else" has been well deserved by you Evangelicals, don't complain about it.

Especially after pulling the lever again in 2004 because the Democrats "hold your values in contempt" - you know, those 'jail the gays, keep the women at home, keep blacks in their place, the-poor-get-what-they-deserve, doesn't-matter-if-brown-people-die, women should be baby factories' values. These very un-Christlike Evangelical Values *based* on contempt that *should* be held in contempt.

You were afraid that my partner and I would be able to marry and that he might get (admittedly overpriced) health care and the right to see me in the hospital and that we could have a family together. So you voted for the man whose party has decimated worker rights, stagnated incomes, ballooned the deficit, killed more soldiers than..

Scott, San Francisco, CA / USA

Gerard Baker is wrong about demographics. The centre of gravity of the country is moving both westwards and southwards. Population growth in both the south and the west was over 20% between 1990 and 2006, whereas for the midwest and northeast it was below 10%

Peter, New York,

I would just like to point out that you can't have it both ways! If Bill Clinton was from the South, then so is Hillary! The fact that she currently represents New York, does not make her less of a southerner, it certainly doesn't make her a New Yorker!

Debbie (EX-Pat), Atlanta, GA USA

In general, a good overview. But a quibble - many Texans would not consider themselves part of the "South", or at least not the "Deep South". The Wikipedia article on the "Deep South" shows states definitely included and states sometimes included - Texas is neither. A bit of trivia - El Paso is closer to Los Angeles than to Houston.

The Republican takeover was similar, but as a resident of ex Rep. Tom Delay's district, I point out that he was hounded from office and replaced by a Democrat. The "permanent Republican majority" didn't quite work out for "The Hammer". Also, the city of Houston got the award for "Person of the Year" recently for their support of Katrina victims, hardly an indictment of redneck status. (The award was from, of all sources, the City of Dallas).

Steve Kennedy, near Houston, TX, USA

Kara in Mobile

Well, you need to brush up on your geography, as well as American history.

Washington, D.C, is geographically in the south as the Mason-Dixon line divided the north and the south. Maryland is also geographically in the South, but did not secede from the UN.

However, Virginia and Texas are southern states, both were in the Confederacy, and Richmond, VA, was the capital of the Confederacy ... and then there was a Virginia called Robert E. Lee - who put Virginia before being an American. As a Virginian, I can assure everyone that Virginia is located in the south, and is a Southern state ....

Marlene, Alexandria, Virginia, USA

Ward - wrong on most of those. The US is good at marketing things, most things, however, are invented elsewhere. What he said was Truly American. Analyse what that means.

And stop sniping at the British; why do Australians constantly have to point out our supposed shortcomings on these forums? There is hardly a posting by an Australian which does not attempt to stick the knife into the British at some point. Grow up.

PSF, London, UK

Just a note to Jim Walton from D.C. Tennessee was indeed a member of the Confederacy. It was Kentucky that was a border state, yet had units in the Confederate Army. Don't write the South off as voting block if Hillary Clinton is nominated, as she is sure to be. She is an extremely polarizing figure in American politics, and very likely to get trounced with her economy-sinking health care proposals.

Brian Elliott, Grapevine, USA/TX

Washington DC., Virginia and Texas are not in the south.

There is also not a particular southern accent. Someone from the gulf coast does not have the same accent as a person from TN or the Carolinas.

The idea that the south is evangelical is a misnomer. The gulf coast is Catholic.

Kara Tyson, Mobile, AL USA

As Mark twain once said; "rumors of my demise have been greatly exaggerated". The Southerner with his unshakable sense of individuality, traditional values, good manners and yes, sometimes obstinancy and violence will endure whoever is in the government. We are not going anywhere. I agree with Alfred that air conditioning did change the character of the south. I have a hard time imagining William Faulkner writing "The Sound and The Fury", or Harper Lee's Atticus Finch delivering his eloquent closing statement in climate controlled splendor. The american south with all of its nobleness, blemishes, pride, sorrow , traditions, history, and residue of aristocracy will endure out of a stubborn sense of identity that will not be subdued. Hmmm... sounds like another group of folks, anybody you know?

Joseph Thornton, Warrenton VA., USA

Overall there is something to what you are saying. However, the South is still growing as a portion of the country. GA and NC are now larger than NJ. FL will pass NY for the #3 spot in 2010. TX, FL, GA, and perhaps VA and NC will gain electoral votes and Congressmen after the next census while MA, NY, OH, PA, MI, and IL will lose some.

The South will still not be a majority of the country, but it has gone from less than a quarter to almost a third if you count the old confederacy plus OK and KY.

The West is also growing, but it is still much smaller than the South. The question is whether the South is sufficiently different from the rest of the country, that winning the South means not winning 5-10 non-Southern states (generally the Mountain West and parts of the Midwest) for the Republicans.

I think the article would be a bit more interesting if it talked about the diversity of the South. The NC/TN/VA new south is quite distinct from the MS/AL deep south.

Adam C, Southern, US

I hope the author is correct---that Dixification has had its day.
But there are many "Southerners" here in the north of the US too. And lurking beneath this possible new trend are millions of true believers who have no doubt that God is on their side.

James A Smailes, Pickerington, Ohio

I always find it entertaining when someone tries to explain the southern United States, especially people who have only traveled through the area. As a lifelong resident of Mississippi, I can assure you the south is everything that has been said, but so much more. People see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear. To truly understand this area, you must live here. Yes, there is racism here, just as there is everywhere else in this world. Yes, there is intolerance here, just like everywhere else. But, there is actual love and respect of people different from you here also, something I feel is missing in a great part of this world. You folks from other places will never understand the south. We all laugh when you try to say ya'll.

Michael Gray, Pontotoc, Mississippi/USA

I wonder if this precipitous fall of the South will last. Incompetence will almost always alienate voters eventually, as will an unduly rigid approach to social values, even in the South. Are these indeed the things that have caused the looming political isolation.? Only in part I think.
Jimmy Carter, a southern Democrat was sacked more for incompetence than for ideology and the southern Republicans have become a caraciture of the social norms they claim to represent. A caraciture that even most Southerners would not buy into.
America remains a deeply conservative political culture and one not easily transformed. True, the North, West and Midwest appear to be ascendent, for the moment, but the South will rise again. All it needs is a brief respite to restore the image of competence and balance. I predict that in another eight to ten years the South will be back.
Just a note: Tennessee was a border state and not part of the old Confederacy.

Jim Walton, Wasshington DC,

A fine article, but why does the author claim that jazz music is America's sole contribution to world culture? I hear this repeated over and over. What about rock and roll? What about country and western music? Or are these musical styles "beneath" the radar of your typical jazz snob? Rock has changed the world far more than jazz has (a change for the better, or worse,that is up to you). Or, what about American R &B, the raw, primitive music that made jazz possible in the first place?

john johnson, NY, NY

Prior to 1948 the southern states were one perty Democratic Party states. The state party machinery was all Democratic Party and candidates for state office competed in the Democratic primary for state and local offices. There was no general election for state offices. For President in 1948 Senator Strom Thurmond became the Dixicrat Party candidate for president opposing Truman and Dewey. Southerners began voting Republican with Eisenhower, then Nixon and local Republicans began running against Democrats for state offices.The senior George H.W. Bush was elected to Congress in Houston. George W. Bush was the darling of Texas land barons, oilmen, the insurance industry, and employers and doctors who were in a battle with trial lawyers and unions over workers compensation, state funding of public schools, and school standards.Bush defeated Democratic Governor Ann Richards.Lyndon LaRouche tried to take over the Democratic Party. The party thwarted this attempt.

rick, lewisville, texas

The world would be a safer place if the Southern States had been allowed to leave the Union and therefore had no control over current US foreign policy.

John Small, Faversham, UK

The most important thing to remember about the South is that it is almost unliveable, in the summer, without air-conditioning. The economic rise of the South matches precisely the availability of a/c.

Furthermore, the South uses prolifigate amounts of petrol per capita to drive between its far-flung suburbs.

It is clear that we are entering a period when this style of living is quite impossible to maintain. This will inexhorably lead to the South reverting to something closer to what it used to be like.

Alfred, Ryde, Isle of Wight

Sir, I'm from a northern state...New Hampshire. Been here in Kentucky for 12 years and perhaps met a dozen registered Republicans. Still though..they seem to elect them over and over again. With that said I bet I've met less than a dozen who will admit to it. They may officially stay in Grandad's party...but they still vote across party lines for the one that most reflects their values. That tends to be Republican and I don't see that changing from my perspective.

Besides all that...a comment on the South. While viewed by many as Redneck. Its a great place to raise kids! A "yes sir" and "yes Ma'am" is heard constantly along with "Ya'll need any help?". And folks...that comes from teenagers!! My kids are raised here. If they move..I hope they spread the southern values! Believe me...its a good thing!!!!

Murph, Madisonville , USA/KY

"sole truly American cultural innovation – jazz."

Blues
Rhythm and Blues
Bluegrass
Texas Swing
Boogie Woogie
Stride
Gospel
Rockabilly
Rock and Roll
Soul
Funk
Bebop
Bop
Post Bop
Fusion
Motown
Hip Hop
Rap

Let's not even start with modern art, e.g. Pop Art, etc.
I guess as a Brit you are used to feeling superior to everyone. Bit short on your cultural studies, eh wot?

Ward, Maleny, Australia

An interesting analysis, and quite insightful. However, the Republican Party is still in the ascendancy in Georgia which now has its first Republican governor since Reconstruction (in his second term); it now has two Republican U.S. senators, whereas a decade or so ago both were Democrats; its congressional delegation is now majority Republican; and in recent years Republicans have taken the majority in both the Georgia state House and Senate. Georgia seems to be bucking the national trend.

St.John Flynn, Mableton, Georgia, U.S.

Please note that Senator Edwards was born in South Carolina, bu t represented North Carolina in the Senate

DKK, Rochester, NY USA

Spot on. And may the pace accelerate exponentially.

Pete Scarvelis, Cleveland, Ohio

The south is way more complicated than the author implies. It suffers from stereotypes as he suggested, however, he then himself goes off on a heavily sterotypical analysis. We are seeing sadly that in places like Jena LA there are some places where racism is alive and well, however, this is hardly unique to the southern United States; the media is just gleefully smug when instances in the south appear. He is also deluding himself if he thinks the south is no longer important in presidential elections. The democrats ran on this very strategy in 2004 and got hammered for it. Whatever ticket ends up the winner next year there will be someone on it with strong southern ties. I am not from the south but lived there for six years and can honestly say you have to live there to see it for what is really a beautiful, vibrant region with overwhelmingly kind people who are truly trying to live their life the best way they know how.

Marianne, Cincinnati, Ohio, USA

John Edwards was a senator from NC - not SC. I don't claim him nor do few others apparently. Trial lawyer - nuff said.

David Clayton, Charlotte, NC USA

Actually genuinely conservative southerners have not had any national party who represented our values for quite some time. Who do we vote for--the Democrats, many of whom hold our values in contempt, or the Republicans, who pay lip service to these values but really worship the forces of big business that have ruined the livelihoods of most southerners? Mainly it has been the latter, and so we are now saddled with a reputation as the main supporters of an incompetent president who has done little good for us or for much of anyone else. I wonder at times whether we should even vote at all.

D.L. Anderson, Crossett, AR/U.S.A.