This week Cardinal Keith O’Brien delivered a sermon at St Mary’s Cathedral in
Edinburgh. Railing against the increase in abortions in Scotland, he called
upon universities to teach that abortion is wrong, for a “boycott” of
politicians who fail to legislate against it, and for “a generation” of
doctors to stop performing the operation. He likened the abortion-rate to
the equivalent of “two Dunblane massacres, every day”.
The Cardinal is pretty chippy when it comes to many of the more inflammatory
issues of the day. He may be pro-gay priest, but he is anti-gay marriage and
anti-gay adoption, he likened sex education for children to “abuse” and has
called upon Muslims to “apologise” for 9/11. And, of course, pronouncing
against abortion is pretty much what you would expect a Catholic archbishop
to do.
However, his outburst does come when there is something of a sea-change in the
air over abortion. While Britain is vastly pro-choice, with only 3 per cent
of people wanting a total ban, the anti-abortionists have been emboldened by
the success of contemporaries in America, where total ban support runs at 22
per cent.
Campaigners are stepping up their activity here, in time for the 40th
anniversary of legalislation in October. Three Bills have been tabled in the
Commons seeking to curtail womens’ access to termination. The Human Tissue
and Embryos Bill is expected to be used by pro-life MPs to tack on
abortion-limitation clauses. And, as Libby Purves noted in her column last
month, an “unprecedented number” of doctors are opting out of terminations,
dismayed by the increase in operations.
A great deal of the reason why anti-abortion sentiment is allowed to hold
ground is that the debate is just that – an ideological, religious or
socio-political debate on abortion. It is rarely discussed in terms of
personal experience, despite record numbers of women, 186,416 in 2006,
having them.
Women – always loth to talk about the more visceral elements of female
reproductive physicality – are too ashamed, or unconfident in their
reception, to discuss their terminations, even with friends, or partners.
This brings about the curious circumstance that, while pretty much everyone
must have someone dear to them who has had an abortion, the chances of them
actually discussing it with their more conservative elders, or menfolk, are
remote.
Subsequently, we have a climate where anti-abortionists can discuss abortion
as something that “they” do, over “there”; rather than the reality – that it
has, in all likelihood, been a calm, rational, well-thought-out act, which
has statistically occurred very close to home.
Last month I wrote a piece in The Times in which I mentioned how, having had
two children, I had an early abortion when I found out that I was pregnant
with a third, and had not – contrary to what I was “expected” to feel –
experienced any indecision, guilt or trauma.
I was amazed at the reader-response – more than 400 online comments, and over
100 letters and emails. By a rule of thumb, those who were anti-abortion
cited no experience of pregnancy or abortion, while those who were
pro-abortion, did. The response that I found most surprising, however, was a
wonderful letter from a well-known feminist columnist who said that,
although she had written about abortion many times, she had never mentioned
her own terminations.
It is this silence from women that the antiabortion lobby hopes to capitalise
on.
One of their recent publicity coups has been highlighting the rise in young
women having multiple abortions. In short, women using abortion as a primary
form of contraceptive. But, of course, young women having multiple abortions
is a matter for contraceptive and emotional education – not limiting access
to abortion. And, besides, I would still rather have feckless young women
having multiple abortions than feckless young women having multiple
children. And so, clearly, would the feckless young women. And that,
thankfully for both them and us, is their right.
But then, with Cardinal O’Brien simultaneously vetoing contraception, abortion and
sex-education, it seems that, in 2007, the Catholic hardliners are reverting
to a more old-fashioned ideal of women: that they remain virgins until they
are ready to become mothers, and that they then mother, without cease, until
they drop.
Personal views
Rowan Pelling, 39, writer
I had a termination after a scan showed that my baby had a condition that was
almost certainly terminal. What kind of a person would ask me to carry that
to term and then watch it die? I felt the loss of my child, not as murder,
but as the child that I had lost.
Christina Odone, 46, former editor of the Catholic Herald
There has been a growth of pro-life sentiment. I don’t put this down to the
Catholic church but to infertility affecting so many women. The thought of
squandering a life terrifies them.
Barbara Hann, 52, office manager, BMW
There’s a 21-year-old girl next door who has three kids and she just doesn’t
seem very interested. In some ways that’s even worse than a termination as
she’s not offering these kids any kind of a life.
Haley Hann (daughter of Barbara) 21, student
Some girls can deliberately set out to get pregnant or threaten to have
abortions to give guys ultimatums, which is awful.
Melissa Roberts, 24, writer
Creating an interim period sounds like a good idea but where abortions are
concerned, surely the sooner the better, ethically as well as legally.
Barry Walker, 25, researcher
It’s the date of termination that bothers me – the arbitrariness of a time to
define life. At some point life happens, but when?
Deepa Naik, 30, researcher in visual cultures
The mood may change, the law may change, but abortions will always happen. So
it’s not about women making the choice or not – the fact is they do make the
choice and their health should take priority.
Belinda Holmes, 32, writer
I was 26 when I fell pregnant, by mistake. At the time, the decision was easy.
My boyfriend and I lived in different places, we didn't have much money. To
have a child felt selfish and thoughtless. To not have it felt harder, but
responsible.
Katerina Philips, 33, mother
In Japan they have a ritual where they say goodbye to aborted children. We
should find something like that here so that we can recognise our conscious
decision without condemning ourselves.
I think it is disgusting that a foetus can be terminated at 24 weeks. What has viability got to do with it? Whether a baby would survive at 24 weeks or not is not the issue. The issue is that at that age the nervous system is developing and we do not know the extent that a foetus can feel pain.
Emily White, London, England
People seem to have forgotten the time before the Abortion Act. In a large London Hospital the were were two gynaecology wards, a 'clean' and a 'dirty'. The dirty was always full, it dealt with the results of illegal abortions, physical damage, blood loss, infection, illness and death.
Whereas one would always advocate sensible contraception, for women and men as the best course of action, do not let these sanctimonious busybodies drive desperate young women and girls back to the back streets and the subsequent risks of permanent damage and death.
Pauline Smith, Denbigh, Wales
I am enraged by people who would dare say to me that I should have had a child when i fell pregnant at 22. I didn't plan it - that is enough reason for termination and it should be. We are not baby-making machines, we do not owe you to churn out new life. We do not owe children to our society. I have not a single morsel of guilt or shame over my aborion. And it pains me that other women, for whom abortion was the right choice, can be timid and silenced by pro-life misogynists. It doesn't matter what a foetus can do, as it lives at the expence of a woman's body and health, it is immoral to give a priority to foetus over a woman. Adoption, you say? No, you will not force women to bear pregnancy and then a pain of childbirth - you, who even have anaesthetic when your tooth is being taken out! How dare some people say we should suffer pain of childbirth?There is nothing natural in it, unless it is planned and wanted. The mere suggestion shows how little respect there is for women now.
Irina, LOndon,
Caitlin Moran and Zoe Williams can't stand this quote 'craven sentimentality for the unborn.' And what this whole thing is really all about is drumming up support for a counter campaign against women who are slowly plucking up courage to speak about the suffering they have endured after having an abortion. I cannot think of a more ugly pre occupation.
Sarah Jones, north wales,
'The high rate of abortion in Britain and similar countries will hasten the Islamisation of these countries'
'What is really tragic about abortion is that the mothers of pro-abortionists weren't enthusiasts. '
'I believe that abortion ends a human life and is thus murder. I see no difference between the abortionists and the Nazis who killed the Jews.'
Am I expected to take these people and their presumed right to dictate MY choices over MY body seriously?
please.
Amelia, London, England
I believe that abortion ends a human life and is thus murder. I see no difference between the abortionists and the Nazis who killed the Jews. Let me explain: The nazis believe that the jews were inferior and thus not people. Hitler referred to them as a sub-race. Abortionists refer to unborn babies as feteces, and therefore do not believe they are human. So, it is justifiable in the abortionist mind to commit murder by killing an innocent baby (fetus)
RickMonday, Chicago, illinois, USA
I was educated in Catholic schools until I was finally kicked out (literally from one of them) by my final two when I was fifteen. My crime was being female in possession of a brain and a lot of anger. Despite being bright and streetwise, I still found myself pregnant to an older, violent man when I was sixteen and unqualified (educationally, and certainly in life skills) and living in a very volatile home situation. I had my abortion when I was six weeks pregnant, and it was the best thing I have ever done, both for me and the potential child who would have grown up in poverty, with a violent partner/father(he later attempted to kill me by strangulation). Would the Catholic church have preferred me to raise a child in a situation wide open to abuses of every kind? Or farm my body and sanity out for the adoption circus? Mysoginists and hypocrites every last one of them. And no, I do not feel one iota of guilt.
Fiona, Portsmouth,
I am against abortion, but not on religeous grounds. I see the argument being put here is along the lines of- "anti abortion positions fail to take into consideration the personal trauma of individual womens cases that 'cause' them to opt for an abortion".
Well theres a simple solution to this. If your in a position where you feel you cant handle getting pregnant- Abstain! Its simply not an excuse to say you got pregnant by "accident"- short of rape- people choose to have sex.
I think you will find there is a simple reason why people against abortion dont have the "personal experience" factor. Its because they know not to put themselves in that position!
David Walker, Suffolk,
If the Catholics don't agree with abortion, that's fine by me. If you follow the Catholic beliefs, then don't get an abortion.
But don't force your beliefs on me or prevent others from having an abortion if they wish.
Keep religion within the church, not in the real world.
Robin Bather, Metepec, Mexico
Here are some testimonies from women who have had abortions. (Warning - none of them are 'pro-abortion'): http://www.silentnomoreawareness.org/testimonies/index.html
Ed, Berkeley, CA
You choose to open up your legs you should be responsible enough to care for that child.I have 3 children my 11 year old i had at 18 single mom. I kept my child even though I had no one. At 19 I had my second daughter she is 9 yrs.old and she has Cystic Fibrosis, god forbid she could die. But she deserves to grow and for me to make her happy. I till this day am a single mom and have had a hard life. But I make the best of it for my chldren.I have returned to school to be in the medical field. And all these years you could be thinking I was using the government for 2 years out of 11 years is all that I ever used governments funds. There are people out there that have more than 15 yrs taking from the system. Not me my 3rd baby he is know 6yrs. old and Doctors told me to have test done that way if he had Cystic fibrosis I'd be able to terminate my pregnancy. At 10 I was molested at 15 I was raped I still wouldn't terminate a pregnancy that is what I told my mother when it happened to me.
Cristina Lopez, Tampa, Florida
Why don't more women talk about their abortions? For the same reason people don't blithely discuss times they've shoplifted, cheated on their spouses, or hit their kids. They still have enough humanity in them to be ashamed when they do something wrong.
Christina, Bucheon, South Korea
Abortion has always existed, and will continue whether legal or not. The horrors of the back-street abortions have been forgotten by many - including medical professionals and women themselves. Is this the situation to which we wish to return?
I hope I shall never have to make the decision to have an abortion, but I absolutely value the fact that I have that choice, and that it be carried out in a safe medical environment.
H, Cambs,
Life begins at conception. Everyone really knows that. Once a single cell ovum and a single cell sperm fuse, a completely new situation begins. Any line drawn after this point is completely arbitrary - 10, 14, 22 weeks. Why not 40? Why not 90 weeks, i.e. 1 year old baby? A society that condones abortion will eventually accept infanticide. And many other awful things.
Spontaneous abortion is not the same as deliberately induced abortion. Both mean loss of life; the former is just sad, the latter brings guilt - whether or not a person feels guilt or admits it. And many do feel it deeply. Understandable, because abortion is the taking of life.
The high rate of abortion in Britain and similar countries will hasten the Islamisation of these countries. This is just one of many consequences. The breakdown of marriage and family and the increase in general irresponsibility are others.
People like you who justify abortion deserve the inevitable consequences. But all of us will pay the price.
Kookaburra, Blackwood SA, Australia
pro life is all about love..love of the child. not a foetus, not an 'it'.Instead of cold destruction . in order to what?-to facilitate a couple of years of 'freedom'. you are never free if you have killed the life within you
eleanor, Glasgow, uk
When the abortion law was passed 40 years ago, the cases for and against were based on logic. Pro-abortionists held that human life begins at the time of birth. Anti-abortionists hold that life begins at the time of conception. Both arguments had logic, and we had no ultrasound scans to show us what a foetus looks like.
In the years since, medical advances made it normal for children to survive from a 60% term (22 weeks), and it is no longer claimed that human life begins at birth. Concurrently, ultrasound scans began to show us how well formed the foetus is, even at 12 weeks.
Now, the logic of the pro-abortion case is confused. Does human life begin at 28 weeks, at 24 weeks, at 22.3 weeks, at 17.9 weeks, or when? Nobody can say, which means that any time deadline must be flawed.
The logic of the anti-abortion case has not changed, and is as clear as ever: life begins at conception. You have the right to do what you like with your own body, but not that of another human being.
Jude, Dulverton, Somerset
Abortion is not and should not be a men vs women issue. I see nothing to suggest that more men are against abortion than are for it, so why all the vitriol directed at 'men' who are supposedly casting women into the dark ages when there are an equal number of women at whom that charge could be thrown?
As a man, I have a right to a decision regarding having a child before conception. Why would I not be entitled to a say in a decision about termination versus bringing a foetus to term?
The current reality is that I don't have much of a say. If I want a child and my partner doesn't, there's no child. However, if I don't want a child and my partner does (say if she becomes pregnant by accident) there's every chance that there will be one, and I'll be left supporting it despite not wanting it. And if I then choose not to support it, I'll be vilified and chased by the law.
If my partner becomes a heroin addict after birth, however, she'll still get custody. Equal? I think not.
Philmundo, New York,
Silly old Cardinal O'Brien would be better off asking the Rockerfellers to apologise for the manufacturing of womens liberation (with help from the CIA) thereby causing the breakdown of the 'family unit'.
Most girls/women today are terrified at the prospect of having a child out of fear that their partner will run off with a younger woman. Young women don't fear sleeping with married men anymore, because the pill has empowered them to do as they please, sexually.
He'd also do well to ask President Bush to apologise for the 911 attacks the bogus 'war on terror' and i'd really like it if he stopped persecuting Muslims.
Sarah, Liverpool, Merseyside
To Pam,
Thank you for sharing. Please know that there are many charities and organisations, secular and religious, and all non-judgemental who are available to talk and listen and help, even these many years later.
Jo, London,
No woman wants an abortion. None hope to have one some day and await it eagerly. Abortion is destructive. More risky than miscarriage yet we don't celebrate those do we? So why are so many of us having abortions? If we're not prepared to carry the children we create to term why do we continue to have sex so fecklessly?
Sexual pleasure isn't dependent on intercourse. We can say no. It's easy and a lot less painful than having your uterus wenched and scraped. This and contraception isn't the only way to manage ones fertility. We ovulate ONCE a month. Why expose ourselves to sperm when we have no desire to reproduce? Orgasm isn't reliant on penile penetration.
A woman not capable of protecting herself from seminal fluid or of making love a safer way isn't in control. And she's not going to get that control back through abortion. Still conceiving against our wills but now atoning for it through degrading surgery. Our foremothers must be sobbing for us.
Anon, England,
Men and women can never be equal if an accident like an unplanned pregnancy ties a woman down. Ussually on her own.
It is scary that in a very confusing time you are depend on what your doctor wants and believes. If you only have a limited time to get permission, it should not be up to doctors to waste your time and muddle your brain.
Early abortions can be done with mediaction far less invasive than surgery. Delays in finding the right two gp's can condemn somebody to major surgery.
Doctors can suggest things but in the end it can only be a decison made by the two people involved.
Astrid Smith, Dorking,
I should have a six year old child now, but I haven't. I should be packing their lunchbox right now and taking them to Majorca this summer, but I'm not. I should be telling them off for not saying please and thank you, but I can't. They should be growing up fast and learning from me, but they aren't. I don't know where they are. What do they do with our foetuses? I think they burn them usually. I heard some incinerate them with the hospital rubbish. I'm not sure what happened to mine. I hope those tools didn't hurt them much or for long. God knows they hurt me. I wish I knew if they were a boy or girl so I could name them. Picture them. I wonder if they'd look like me or their dad. I hope I heal. I hope they know I'm sorry.
I haven't really got a point to make but you've asked us to speak out so here.
Pam, UK,
you have sex you open yourself up to the possibility of becoming pregnant or of getting your partner pregnant. that is the purpose of sex, after all. i'm pro choice and all but the birth control failed excuse is laughable. if you know it isn't 100% reliable even when used by the book (or leaflet) you've only yourself to blame when it doesn't work. we can't depend on rubber like this! but sadly it seems contraception has cultivated the stupid assumption that sex has little to do with making babies. then sometimes raw biology wins, doesn't it? and where i come from at least (USA) half the women having abortions confess they weren't using protection anyway!
the time limit needs to be changed. a 24 week limit is appalling & outdated. there are slews of women out there who deeply regret their abortions and who wouldn't have had them had the circumstances been improved by those who should've cared for them i.e the father. abortion is a lame substitute for this. we need to buck up our ideas.
ptg, coventry,
The pro-death camp have such poor arguments. Other than citing the most laughable sources as authority, they then resort to lies or non-sequiturs. To the ill-informed of Port 'Mad-dog', I would pose this question: are there no unwanted/uncared for children in the UK? As a teacher in a deprived area I can tell you from FIRST HAND experience, that the availability of abortion does not make one iota of difference to the care (or lack of) of children. I guess the mothers think not killing the 'little bleeder' was as heroic and selfless act as they were prepared to go.
Stephen, Ipswich,
Its amazing how many of the anti-abortionists are men ! Its easy to pontificate on something men will never have to experience and its sheer hypocrisy, I believe, for us men to be dictating what women should or should'nt do. There is no difference between the rabid anti-abortionists who force women to bear a child against their free will and the radical muslims who force their women to wear a burqa.
sandeep, birmingham, uk
Dan, why do you think that only women who have unprotected sex get pregnant? I have had three unplanned pregnancies when using birth control efficiently and also condoms for one of them.
As for having adoption as another option it just isn't what some women want - for me I didn't want to be PREGNANT, I didn't want to stop my education simply to gestate for 9 months because my birth control failed. I'm pleased I live in a copuntry where I was able to have access to safe and legal abortion. Recrimilising abortion will not stop it - simply force it underground again which really would be a tragedy. Instead of concentrating on embryos and foetuses that have been aborted why not concentrate on those alive who need a loving home or the millions starving
Karen, Devon,
If only there was an informed choice! I wasn't told how developed my baby was. I wasn't told that I would sink into depression soon after the abortion. I wasn't told about the possibility of the endometriosis and ectopic pregnancy that followed..
H. Tomkins, Walsall,
It's time the pro-choice majority was heard rather than the debate being dominated by a tiny minority and extreme view of the Church. I congratulate Caitlin Moran for her steps to break the damaging taboo.
Worldwide the Church's teaching is responsible for anti-abortion laws that force millions of women into seeking illegal back-street abortions leading to the unnecessary deaths of 75,000 women every year and the injury of millions. This slaughter must stop.
To add your voice to the increasingly vocal pro-choice majority or to speak out about your own abortion, visit the new website www.prochoicemajority.org.uk. There, hundreds have already added messages including other prominent journalists.
Louise , London,
I had abortion. I regret it everyday.
There I've spoken out. Does it make any difference? Do you even care?
RFG, UK,
Its probably too long ago when people can remember relatives or even themselves suffering awful complications and death from illegal abortions which were frequently performed before the abortion act legalised such a practice
Chris Quartly, harpenden, uk
Long live informed choice. And in the case of abortion, by all means inform a couple or the woman of what having a child entails, or not having it entails. But avoid propaganda, such as the christian pro-life propaganda.
Pro-lifers (especially men) bang on about the right of the child to live. But what about the lives of health professionals they destroy, or even murder, in their quest to get what they want.
It's all about choice. Those in favour of abortion let the anti-abortion brigade have their view and make their individual decisions. So why not let those who choose to have an abortion have it? It won't make any difference in any way whatsoever to their lives.
And why are those opposed to abortion called "pro-lifers"? They aren't any more pro-life than anyone else? Especially when they're prepared to kill health professionals performing abortions.
David G, Coogee, Sydney, Australia
I am a Catholic and I believe in choice. You have the choice to have unprotected sex or not to. But you dont have the choice to kill a baby. This entire debate comes down to personal responsibility of our actions. If you have sex, protected or otherwise, you have to accept that the consequences of that action is that a baby may be the result.
I understand why The Church takes its views on birth control but I do disagree with it. There is a practical side of life too. To tell people to simply not have sex is silly. Of course they are going to do it. But you still have to accept that a child can be the result even with birth control.
And before any of you pro-choicers get your knickers in knot and start spouting off about rape and incest. In the US 1.5 Million babies were killed last year only a few thousand of those had a claim of rape or incest.
This whole issue hinges on personal responsibility.
Dan , Frederick , US
It is good to see Moran tackling a serious subject as she is easily one of the best writers in Britain and is too routinely confined to doing the jokes. I don't know why the personal views were added at the end; they weaken the effect of a thoughtful piece which deserves to stand alone and be considered on its own merits.
Give Moran more space and tell her she doesn't have to deliver a punch line; her thinking can stand up for itself. I don't necessarily agree with her, but I do want to read more in this vein.
V Samuel, Cambridge,
Take the fact they are talking about abortion out of it and what you have is the catholic church trying to enforce their views on government through blackmail and threats. This alone needs to be dealt with very quickly and deliberately to prevent it from gathering any kind of momentum.
On the subject of abortion, as a man, I would say there needs to be changes, the father has no rights which I can't get my head around as being fair, but the service does need to be offered.
iang, Glasgow, UK
To those who assert that Catholics should not "force their
opinions" about "non-sentient foetuses" on adult female
voters, I will, as always, remember to ignore your
comments when and if any fellow adult male voters
demand democratic freedom of choice with regard to the
"honour killing" of THEIR "semi-human" daughters.
Kevin, London,
I have never been pregnant, nor knowingly known anyone who has had an abortion and yet I'm pro-abortion.
I believe that there are a good number of reasons why a woman would find an abortion better than carrying the child to term. For each reason to terminate (rape, disease, disability, inability to care for that child) there is also a reason to keep the child (innocence, cures, adoption, and a disabled person has the same chance of having a good life as anyone else). For each individual woman and child that decision has to be made by that woman, with input those around her (her parents, friends and the father of the child - males as well as females) based on their circumstances.
It is rarely a simple decision, it is never as simple as "abortion is wrong" - for to bring a child into this world without being sure it is the right thing to do can be just as wrong.
Choice, objective help to see the issues clearly to make that choice and support afterwards, that is what is important.
Amanda, Cambridge, UK
Why should I ask myself what a MAN who died 2,000 years ago would have thought on an issue effecting people today. what could he possibly have to say about it.
Even if we could ask such a question who would we receive an answer, there is no text on abortion in the bible and the early church fathers too remain silent.
the catholic Church's position on this is insane. By baning abortion and contraception they have led many third world nations into spiraling debt high, unsustainable population growth and horrifying levels of STDs and ultimately unimaginable levels of misery - or perhaps they believe it is under these conditions that the catholic church flourishes best?
For this alone they deserve contempt.
lets not allow them to turn the UK into yet another nation where children are unwanted like Mexico, Argentina, Brazil and elsewhere where street children are so numerous they are treated like vermin - hunted for sport.
Mike FW, Porthmadog,
Caitlin Moran reintroduces the canard that only women who have been pregnant and/or had an abortion should be permitted to have any say in the matter. She also speculates that were these views known, abortion laws might be even more liberal. I disagree and I think some of her readers, the men especially, should ask themselves why they should not have their say. We live in a society. As a society we lay down rules for the fair governance of that society. Many of these rules are based on a moral code that has evolved over thousands of years and which remains current purely because we as a society have learnt that such rules work.
I am a woman and have had two children so presumably I am allowed to comment. I do not agree with abortion other than where the life of the mother is genuinely at risk. Modern contraception is freely available and efficacious. Failing that there is adoption.
Abortion is not right just because it makes some people's lives easier.
A. Watson, Exeter,
To the anti abortionists here I say , mind your own business.
Do we have the right to tell you what to do with your body ? of course not.
So do not lecture & try to control woman, for decisions SHE makes about HER body.
Listening to any questions yesterday on radio 4 with Jonathan Dimbleby I was so impressed when , I think George Osborne [? ] the politician spoke up so strongly in favour of this argument. He was vehement about the womans choice & privacy.
To say a baby can ' be adopted ' if the mother does not want it is a cruel flippant statement, that causes more pain for the mother [ & much soul searching for the child in later life ] than removing a foetus without personality, or a child she has seen.
The reasons for wanting a termination are many & varied, & I am sure no woman enters into a clinic without serious thought on what she is doing.
As for Ratsinger & his gang, yes all men! they should make up their mind, either allow contraception or face up to reality & allow abortion
Maggie Millington, Brittany, France
Any scientist will tell you one cell by itself is life. The difference in this one cell is its human DNA. It is human life. You have to ask yourself, what would Jesus do? Why are the rights of the unborn not considered? The only time I can justify abortion is when the mother's life is in danger. At that time she should be given the choice.
David Brach, Tulsa, OK, USA
I know most of the pro-abortionists arguments are fairly ludicrous and derisible but I nearly spilt my drink over the PC screen when I saw N Marks citing Wikipedia and 'Freakonomics' as authorties supporting his argument. Seriously, is that the best you can do to justify the selfish decision to end a life because to keep it might just be 'too much bother'?
Stephen, Ipswich,
Chris: 'please don't criticise those who feel differently or aren't in such a comfortable position as yours. If you can't understand someone else's position on this issue then you must have a very poor imagination.'
The last time I checked this was a free country where we can express our opinions - critical or otherwise - freely. I can and do understand other people's opinions and agree with some and disagree with others. On this issue, I disagree with those who believe in abortion on demand. Other people have equally valid views, the purpose of this comment section is to express one own's opinion. The trouble with some people in this country nowadays is that they want to kill debate and instead have a handful of 'correct' views on set issues. 'There is much to hate here/much to forgive/but in a world where England does not exist/I do not wish to live.'
Andy, Suffolk,
I think Diana highlighted the problem with some 'pro-choice' thinking. Individualism is a destroyer. This me me me attitude: Like OMG I am NOT an incubator, is unnatural. The supposed conflict between the rights of mothers and our unborn wouldn't be the normal state of affairs if our culture truly respected and cherished women. My body, my choice, my right sounds all well and good objectively but the flipside of this kind of self determination is lonliness. No woman is an island. Pregnancy is the ultimate form of human connection, binding a woman, literally, to her baby. And this is what is ignored by abortion advocates in favour of more impersonal 'practicalities'. Is this what we've been reduced to? Is it what we want? And to what end?
That twinned with our obligation to be sure none are inconvenienced by our 'problems' and the expectation of us to just 'deal' with them has ended in so many women sacrificing too much. Abortion is a bloody tragedy no sane person would celebrate.
Gail, Derby,
No one has a right to sink a ship, when others are aboard, just because one owns that ship. This analogy implies abortion is murder.
Not all abortions go smoothly. Some aborted foetuses are still alive after the so-called abortion. These still-living foetuses then have to be, quite literally, murdered.
What is really tragic about abortion is that the mothers of pro-abortionists weren't enthusiasts.
Christopher Griffin, London, England
I was forced to go into labour because I had a 22 week old daughter who had stopped growing in my womb. I had a terribly anxious pregnancy a year later but had a beautiful healthy daugher at full term. A couple of years later, I had to have a "scrape" because there was a dead 10 week old child in my womb. As a result, I would not personally choose to have a termination. That does not give me the right to dictate to others about their decisions about their bodies. I cannot condemn them. Although I don't believe that abortion should be used as a form of contraception, there are times when contraception fails. Women must do what they must do and though I am indeed pro-life, I am also pro-choice - the two are not mutually exclusive.
Anne Coulon, Geneva, Switzerland
I have first hand experience of abortion having been through one for foetal health problems and two for others.
They were difficult decisions and I regretted one but this has nothing to do with anyone except myself and my husband - people who condemn abortion have clearly never been in the shoes of a woman facing and unwanted pregnancy (I used birth control each time I fell pregnant). No-one has the right to tell me I was wrong or that I'm immoral for not bringing children into a world where they were not wanted or for to not continue a pregnancy where the foetus wouldn't even survive the pregnancy.
As for the comparison to the holocaust there's a world of difference between born people and a foetus (not forgetting Nazi Germany was strongly pro-life either).
Karen, Devon,
Seems like you're not so much calling for an 'abortion debate' as you are for women to declare how wonderful and empowering their experiences of invasive surgery involving vacuums were. I don't think you'll get many takers..
KW, Cambridge,
The killing of children by abortion violates the Convention on the Rights of the Child which states that, 'the child, by reason of his physical and mental immaturity, needs special safeguards and care, including appropriate legal protection, BEFORE as well as after birth.’ The Universal Declaration of Human Rights protects the right to life of ‘all members of the human family’. Since the unborn are members of the human family the UDHRs protects the right to life of the unborn. The claim that some human lives are ‘not persons’ or ‘have no legal status’ or ‘have no rights to protect’ have been used to justify slavery and the slave-trade, the Nazi persecution of the Jews and others, and of women who, for instance in Canada, had the status of ‘non-persons’ up until 1925. To claim that others are ‘non-persons’ is used to remove the moral and social obstacles for committing acts of violence. www.unitedforlife.com shows how abortion, embryo experimentation and IVF are modern forms of slavery.
Chris, Cheltenham,
Over the past couple of years, there has been a sustained anti-abortion campaign in certain sections of the press. I agree with Caitlin Moran that women need to speak up in defence of this important right. The extreme Catholic positions are not of general interest and will certainly be ignored by many within that church. If we are not careful, we shall end up with access to abortion being whittled away. In Nicaragua now, even ectopic pregnancies, with no prospect of a live birth but every prospect of a dead woman, are denied termination.
Men may have an interest in a pregnancy, but a woman's body should belong to her and her alone. She should not be regarded as an incubator and should not be obliged to carry an unwanted pregnancy to full term.
There is a world of difference between foetuses and live babies and it is emotional rubbish to equate them. It seems inevitable that general time limits will come down, but this should be decided by the practicalities rather than feelings.
Diana Brown, Etagnières, Switzerland
Women who kill their own children generally say its because they have no choice, because we as a society choose death rather than life, we dont value each other and we are so self obsessed, so I dont see choice coming in to it except by the deluded.
Generally you will find those who are anti the kiling of humans in the womb do take care of the poor and unwanted too.
Many women who have killed their babies suffer for it in the longer term, and of course the babies whose body part are scraped off the operating drapes have paid the ultimate price and have never had the opportunity to fulfil their potential, to love to laugh to hold your hand to feel the sunshine on their lovely faces.
Thank God for a church that stands up for what it believes and of course the law makers /politicians have a choice too, they can vote pro-abortion and distance themselves from the church or they can choose for God and life.
hh, EASTLEIGH, HAMPSHIRE
I support your goals, but please don't generalise about "women" as if we're all the same.
You say: "Women – always loth to talk about the more visceral elements of female reproductive physicality – are too ashamed, or unconfident in their reception, to discuss their terminations, even with friends, or partners."
This is not true of me; I had one abortion, 10 years ago, at the age of 16, and while i don't brag about it or bring it up randomly, I do mention it if it's relevant in a conversation with friends or partners. The same is true of my friends who have had abortions (and I would point out that while i know many women who have had one abortion, I do not know any who have had more than one).
I would also direct your attention to www.imnotsorry.net , which is a website for women to tell their stories which aims to counter all the anti-abortion propaganda sites.
JM, Cardiff, UK
I have been involved in the decisions surrounding three terminations and I and the women concerned still doubt whether we did the right thing. Other people I know who have had abortions feel the same way, I don't personally know anyone who has had an abortion and wasn't affected by it, it isn't simply another form of contraception. While I am in favour of abortion on demand I think people should be asked to go away and think about it for a few weeks and I also think the time limit should be dropped to 16 weeks as some 22 week old "foetus's" are alive when aborted. An old girlfriend works in an NHS abortion clinic in Paisley, she has seen it. She is a catholic and disagrees with it but feels she has to help the, mainly, young girls who come in. I don't think multiple abortions should be paid for by the NHS, or come to think of it any abortions at all, pregnancy isn't life threatening. We should be pushing for the male pill to give men choice as well as women.
John, Dundee, UK
Here's a 'hands up' from a male and here's my position: If I had ever inseminated a woman (I haven't and now I'm a bit past it) AND I was adamant about the outcome then I would have wanted a say on whether or not the foetus was aborted.
If I had inseminated a woman and I had no interest in the outcome then I would have wanted the woman to have absolute choice in what to do with the foetus.
As to all the other women who were inseminated by someone else - that's none of my business.
People who are hell-bent on interfering in the lives of others should note that last phrase and repeat it to themselves a dozen times each day. "That's none of my business, that's none of my business, ............"
John A. Blackley, Austin, TX, USA
Donna, why do you think a termination would be so much less traumatic? Women can have joyous birth experiences and horrendous ones. I've had both (heavy-handed forceps delivery then fantastic water birth.) But even a wanted abortion is never a positive experience.
Louise, Leamington ,
What is it about the Christian Church in the UK that it seems it's always the Roman Catholics who seem to have the guts to speak out about moral issues?
This time about abortion.....ten years of Tony Blair's government, despite his claims to be a Christian, he and his government has done nothing to update and allow open debate on our outdated abortion laws. Despite the new scientific evidence of fully formed unborn babies from only 12 weeks gestation. The fact that only the UK in Europe allows abortion of the unborn healthy child up to 24 weeks of pregnancy: Over 95 % of which are inconvenience termination's, is aborant in a so called civilised country.
Yet today, the Independent newspaper (which is anything but these days) ridicules Cardinal Keith O'Brien for daring to speak out on this controversial issue. It's pretend concerned headline, 'THE MAN WHO WANTS TO LEAD A SENSIBLE DEBATE ON ABORTION' leads readers to two pages of mocking his views. Liberals don't want a debate!
Simon Icke, AYLESBURY, UK
"Just because someone adhers [sic] to a faith does not give them the right to dictate to people who do not share their beliefs." How is he dictating to anyone? He has a right to speak his mind and share his beliefs just like you. No one has to take any notice unless they want to.
If abortion is ever recriminalised it won't be because of a Cardinal, so you're not to fret just yet.
Ada Charmle, Hereford,
If only more pro-lifers would hop off their moral high horses for a moment and offer their money and time to help raise some of these unwanted children, I dare say their arguments would be more compelling.
Do me a favour? Please ensure that women are not thrust back into the dark ages, where a baby every year or so was the norm and those that were unwanted were either abandoned or removed in a back street abortion.
Francesca, Nassau, Bahamas
"By a rule of thumb, those who were anti-abortion cited no experience of pregnancy or abortion, while those who were pro-abortion, did."
Actually Caitlin, I commented on your article telling of my sorrowful experience of abortion and how disgusted I was by your attitude.
Don't pretend we don't exist, it's insulting.
Louise, Leamington Spa,
Giving birth to my second child was very traumatic. Although I had a healthy baby, everything that could have gone wrong with the delivery did go wrong - in part due to the 'care' I received in an NHS hospital. Contrary to the idea that the women soon forgets when she has her lovely baby in her arms, I have never forgotten. I love my son to bits, but nothing on earth would have pursuaded me to have a third.... if I had conceived by accident, I would have had an abortion.
I don't believe men, who will never be in the position of giving birth, should judge women on this issue. Priests - who will never even become fathers - have even less right. Just because someone adhers to a faith does not give them the right to dictate to people who do not share their beliefs.
I believe that the time limit for abortion should be reduced - probably to a maximum of 18 weeks - but within that timescale abortion should be unconditionally available.
Donna Walker, Effingham, Surrey
The decision whether or not to have an abortion is an intensely personal one. Politicians neither encourage nor discourage abortions, but pass laws enabling individuals to take the decision for themselves under a secular regime that is bound by democratic rules and should be completely independent of the rules of any particular faith. To attempt to deny an individual access to their God for properly carrying out secular duties is a miserable irreligious act. Is this policy to be carried over to other situations where religious leaders (of any faith) have not won the popular argument?
John, London, England
And I care what these bible-bashing hyprocrites (who remain silent about the death and suffering of millions of people in our own brutal wars) say because....?
Marie Clare, London, UK
I can never be pro abortion (as a man who wanted the child) but I am pro-choice on contraception.Women who would rather go through an abortion (without guilt!! as I've read.) must surely accept that with the power of choice over abortion, there's a responsibility to contraception. I'm also amazed that there seems to be a lack of men's views in the column(unless from the church).
Christian Lee, Hyde, Cheshire
I am a mother of 5 children. Of my 5 pregnancies I killed the 1st by abortion, the 2nd and 4th ended in live births, the 3rd and 5th in miscarriage. In all 5 cases I was carrying children that were conceived and growing in the same way. The only difference was that I chose not to let my 1st child live for purely selfish reasons. The guilt and secrecy of the abortion marred my enjoyment of bringing up my 2 sons as I was aware there should have been an older child in the family. The miscarriages caused no guilt. A child is a child and a mother is a mother from the moment of conception. Should it really be that a mother chooses to have a dead child at the end of her pregnancy denying the rest of her family the presence of a new family member? The killing of children by abortion is always wrong and no country can call itself civilised if it kills the most vulnerable members of its society. I am not afraid or ashamed to speak out about my experience and do so whenever the opportunity arises
Grace Mason, Bishops Cleeve, UK
Andy: "Now in our 40s, if we had another surprise we would happily see out the pregnancy regardless of the health risks, financial costs or the impact on our lives and careers."
That is your opinion and your choice. But please don't criticise those who feel differently or aren't in such a comfortable position as yours. If you can't understand someone else's position on this issue then you must have a very poor imagination.
Chris, Dorking, UK
Male Hysteria. Some men believe biology is destiny, once pregnant the woman must [emphasis must] carry to full term and stay home and look after the young. Morning After Pills should be as widely available as the condom and sold adjacent to them in pubs, bars and shops.
jane fleming, Whittlesey, Cambs
Caitlin claims to be amazed by the fact that those who responded to her piece who "were anti abortion cited no experience of pregnancy or abortion while those who were pro-abortion did". Amazing or simply reflecting the fact that those who are against abortion don't tend to have abortions?
Peter, London, UK
Christina Odone: When are you and your religious buddies (George W Bush et al) going to get the message that selling fear doesn't work in an enlightened age? Shame on you.
To understand the effect that abortion has had on crime alone, trying reading Chapter 4 from the bestseller "Freakonomics" - unless its too much an inconvenient truth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Impact_of_Legalized_Abortion_on_Crime
N Marks, Cardiff, UK
Jason Gosford, Australia. Of course you have every right to comment on this subject, just as you have a right to comment on the Holocaust even though you may not be Jewish. Women are wrong to think that having a baby is exclusively their domain. As social animals we have a moral obligation to protect and support each other. The fact that a woman bears a child does not meant that she alone is responsible for it. Women would not be able to conceive or raise their children without the help of men. Men and women have equally valid but different roles. The subject of abortion affects all sectors of society and should not just be left to women to decide whether or not it is acceptable. A woman's free will in this respect stops at the moment of conception. If a woman does not fulfil her social contract to bear the child in the womb, why should men be forced to pay taxes to fund hospitals, schools, the police, the military and any other department that helps make society civilized?
Joe Rous, Cape Town,
Very well put Caitlin. I have long since stopped referring to the loony religious right as pro-life, they are not after all. From a personal viewpoint, I could never have an abortion, but how on earth can we judge the women that do?
Commentators on the right seem unable to even consider the individual circumstances and instead bang on about their own feelings as if the feelings of the women who do have terminations simply do not exist.
It is sad fact of life that the most vociferous and abusive of the anti-abortion brigade are older males, and as Jason from Australia points out, what right do they have to pass judgment on women they have never met, can never possibly understand?
Our bodies are our own, and these anti-woman fascists should keep their moral views to themselves, instead of trying to demean and destroy our gender. It's like being back in the Dark Ages sometimes it really is.
Again, another well done Caitlin, for yet again speaking out.
Jennifer Hynes, Plymouth, England
My wife and I have three beautiful children, none of whom were planned particularly - all of whom are loved beyond measure. The biggest nonsense words in the world are 'family planning'. Now in our 40s, if we had another surprise we would happily see out the pregnancy regardless of the health risks, financial costs or the impact on our lives and careers. To do otherwise would be simply unthinkable.
Abortion can be justified where the mother is at risk, the child would be born severely disabled or where a rape has taken place. I didn't always take this view, but my personal opinion - and it is only that - is that abortion for any other reason is wrong. I can not understand anyone who has held their own newborn baby in their hands wanting to do away with a life - a helpless and wholly innocent life.
In a world with so much sufferring only we in the self-indulgent, selfish and morally bankrupt western countries could allow so many abortions to take place.
Andy, Suffolk,
As a male, I feel that this particular issue ( which is worldwide, of course) is something I really should not be commenting on. What right have males, who have never and probably will never go through the experience, to such an overwhelming say on this issue ?
Jason, Gosford, Australia
A foetus is not a wart nor an ingrown toenail.
Ms Moran's attitude is frivolous, and callous.
Barbara Hann sounds like a control freak . She would not
give her neighbour "the right to choose" to have a family.
She sounds like a true disciple of the eugenicist Marie Stopes.
Donal Kennedy, London, UK
I thought I had had my say.
Donal Kennedy, London, UK
It is still Friday 1st June as I write and today's paper asks for my view. I have no coimpunction about stating it, though a mere man.
Parliament did not vote for abortion on demand. In 1967 a majority of those in Parliament who chose to vote merely decriminalised abortion in limited circumstances.
The Prime Minister of the day abstained (Harold Wilson).
I believe the Tory Leader Ted Heath also abstained, Great numbers of MPs had not the courage to vote for or against the Bill.
Abortion is the taking of the life of a human individual which is neither part of the mother nor part of the father but
their equal in individuality. Of course it is not capable of independent life but needs a life support system. We all do. None of us grows all our own vegetables, cooks all our ownfood, tailors our own suits and makes our own laptops or creates our own language.
Catholic teaching forbids the killing of innocents. It forbids men beating their wives. Having your cake and eating it is coward
Donal Kennedy, London, UK