The Brits and the French know how to play the game, a German diplomat embroiled in the European Union treaty negotiations told me last week. “We know we can rely on them. But the Poles, they are something else. I am not sure they understand the game at all.”
Well, bravo for the Poles. They come fresh to the labyrinthine process of EU negotiations with a firmer grasp of their national interest than the current occupant of 10 Downing Street. Their reluctance to let Germany grant itself significantly greater voting power makes it Warsaw 1, Berlin 0, as today’s EU summit kicks off. Intransigent? Yes. Unacceptable? No.
Look at France’s beloved Common Agricultural Policy. While EU leaders congratulate themselves on creating a foreign aid programme, recently branded one of the most wasteful and inefficient in the world, 40 per cent of the EU’s entire budget is still spent subsidising European farmers to keep African food out of the market. What hypocrisy.
On Tuesday, José Manuel Barroso, President of the European Commission, told Poland that it risked losing money and support if it blocked a deal to reform the EU’s institutions. What, for exercising its democratic right to object? That is blackmail. Unlike Lech Kaczynski, the President of Poland, Mr Barroso is not elected. The money he threatens to remove belongs primarily to British, Dutch, French, Italian and German taxpayers. What do those who foot the EU’s bills think about a new voting system that will not only change the relative voting power of different countries, but also dramatically reduce the power of individual nations to stop legislation, by raising the threshold for a blocking coalition? Do they agree with Brussels that we must make it easier for the EU to pass more laws?
The Dutch don’t. Their perfectly reasonable “red card” proposal, which would allow a majority of national parliaments to block legislation that they did not like, has been dismissed out of hand. “The Dutch climbed a few trees and we now have to get them back down again,” an EU ambassador in Brussels said this week.
That is how Europe’s political elite views its citizens: they don’t know what’s good for them. Best to keep them out of it. As Angela Merkel, the German Chancellor, has said, better to use “different terminology without changing the legal substance” of the old constitution, then present it to the public as an “amending treaty” that no longer requires a referendum.
What fools they take us for. Do they really think that they can sustain the fiction that this “treaty” is essential for the EU to function, and yet so unimportant as to not be worth us bothering our little heads about? Do they expect us to believe that a document cleansed of the word “constitution”, but that still incorporates a full-time EU president and foreign minister, gives the power to make international treaties, and overrides national parliaments on criminal law, employment law, social policy and immigration (to name but a few), is so different from the one that Dutch and French voters rejected two years ago?
Britain has pushed through the enlargement of the Union, it must therefore accept a change in voting weights. But it need not accept the higher thresholds for blocking legislation that could prevent us keeping out measures such as the Working Time Directive.
Claims of gridlock are much exaggerated. Since the constitution was voted down two years ago, the EU has created the world’s first emissions trading scheme and the European Defence Agency. Sciences Po, the Paris institute, says that the EU has been adopting new rules and regulations 25 per cent faster since enlargement. But clearly not fast enough for those who fear that the federalist project may falter if anyone has time to think.
In Britain, no one under 50 has had a chance to vote in a referendum on the direction of the EU. Yet those whom we elect as temporary holders of political office blithely continue to hand power permanently to unelected institutions. Whether this treaty ends up being a giant leap towards greater integration or just another step on the way is a less important distinction than it may appear. Each step hands power to the European Court of Justice, which seizes every opportunity to expand its domain, including slowly eroding national vetoes on tax. Our leaders give away more power then they realise.
Unlike most MPs, I read every page of the original constitution. The loopholes are legion. Take the charter of fundamental rights, which Tony Blair has said Britain will never sign up to. It enshrines employment and social rights that would turn our clock back 30 years and grant workers co-decision powers in the businesses that employ them. Germany wants to leave the charter out of the new treaty but to include a reference that will make it legally binding nevertheless. Mr Blair wants a paragraph to exempt Britain. But lawyers tell me that it would be almost impossible to make the wording watertight. Oh, and the charter could come in by the back door, through powers to coordinate member states’ “economic and employment policies”.
The EU should have grown out of trying to define national issues as European. It should be focusing on the few big challenges, such as climate change and trade, that are truly international. As Ed Balls, Gordon Brown’s confidant, put it in a recent pamphlet, we must stop doing “ ‘more EU’ for the sake of it”. Mr Brown himself must not condone the arrogance of those who act as though the Dutch and French had never voted. He must promise a referendum. It would not be a referendum on his premiership, as he may fear, but a chance to restrain an EU elite that has proved its total disregard for democracy.
I'm one of that legion of Brits under 50 who have never had a chance to vote directly on Europe. Why should that be? I've voted on a referendum for Scottish devolution, while the EU has at least as much impact on my life I have never had a chance to say 'NO!'
John, Edinburgh,
it is very disgusting to see blair hide his real tactics behind the back of poland until the very last moent.
it is time to move on with europe.
the u.k. should leave the european union. at least this would be the best for europe.
rolf, boll, germany
The anti-EU stance of the British public reminds me of an episode "le petit prince":
The British have for decades been fundamentally opposed to the idea of joining forces to enforce European visions, ideas and interests in the entire world. It is interesting to note that the British don't see that as necessary whereas Germany for example, a country that is larger, more populous and (exept for the ex-GDR) richer than Britain thinks it is not strong enough on a world-wide level.
Why is that?
I believe it can only be explained by seeing that London traditionally "choses" to want whatever Washington wants and afterwards claim to have accomplished its goals. Like the king in "le petit prince" who is so powerfull, he can even command the sun to set. But when promptet he refuses to order the sun to set before evening, because that would be "unwise".
And speaking of democracy, oligarchy etc. this close cooperation between the US and UK often seems not to reflect the wishes of the people.
Paul Friedrich, Cuenca, Spain / Castilla-La Mancha
The Poles were "sold" the idea that EU membership was good for them, based upon the idea that Poland would receive massive investment in their roads & infrastructure etc.
What they were not informed about was their loss of Sovereignty, and the inevitable loss of the Polish way of life. Their many small Organic farms will be forced to sell-up to the bigger players. Petty bureacracy will put a stop to Polish delicacies being sold on the beach or roadside. The thriving cottage industries that collect and sell the best forest-grown blueberries and mushrooms in Europe...all will go, or be changed forever.
I admire the Polish tradition of rebellion against authoritarianism...let's hope the Polish people rebel soon, and vote themselves out of the EU !
John Robinson, Thetford, UK
The summit is in Brussels, But Camilla in her sub-headline wrote about the Berlin Summit . Wishful thinking or Freudian Slip ?
Compared to the centuries of war and bloodshed I rather prefer
a European Union to the ongoing massacres we had before. In this light the whole penny pinching and foulplaying in the teams sometimes only seem ridiculous and painful for me. Troubling times will lie ahead with climate changes, China, Russia and the changes this will bring about. The European member states on their own will quickly be marginalized if EU is not developing also into a political power. That this is not easy we can see these days. But to foster the illusion we would master that future as a weak association of autistic egoists by going back to the early 20 th century nation state is politically naive and ridiculous and a very dangerous illusion. So we better live up to the expectations of a more complex globalized world.
Steinmann, Berlin, Germany
Part 2
My life is also being affected by the European union and until know I have only profited: I have lived in the UK, Spain and currently live in France, which before would not have been possible so easily. Two other movies you might want to consider watching are: 1. L’auberge Espagnol (The spanish Hotel) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0283900/ and 2. Poupees russe (The russian dolls) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0409184/
Here you can see how the European idea is being lived by thousands of students on exchange programmes throughout hundreds of cities within Europe. These people - no matter how problematic the political problems and discussions might be – know that the friends they made – let them be English, French, German, Spanish, Polish or from wherever – are good decent people that have one common goal: live in peace in freedom with each other!
Good bye! Au revoir! Adios! Auf wiedersehen!
Jan Kaletka, Braunschweig, Germany
i think the E.U is for the best interest from all the people who live in this condinent and not for the best of some states. i think fights between poland and the German or between U.K and France do not have any place in nowadays world. i am strong belever of this union because i belive this is the future of this continite with out wars. i want to remeber all these people who fights its other that this continent suffered in the past two wars. meanwhile i want to remeber some people from the east that there are not the only people who suffered in the past, cause of the war. i want to inform that Greece suffered exept the second world war and the civil war and many other things before join the E.U
Kostas, Greece
kostas, Aberdeen,
I would suggest the most accurate indication of which way Tony Blair votes or agrees to, will have been greatly infuenced by Peter Mandelson, who before ever becoming an EU Commissioner for the UK was a far too infuential voice whenever Blair had to make important decisions.
Watch what Mandelson quotes and we are likely to get a fairly accurate indicator.
Personally, I think the Poles are spot on in punching their weight whilst they have the chance or they will become submerged like most of the other smaller states.
Ken.H, Harrow.,
Colin, I would like to remind you that Poland opened its market years before we started to get any sensible money.
100% of our car manufacterers (excluding buses/tracks) are
controlled from abroad ...
100% of our cell phone companies are controlled from abroad ...
90% of our banks are controlled from aboard ...
80% of our hipermarkets ...
etc. etc. etc.
Also, please remeber that Polish farmers got a fraction (less than a half) of what old EU farmers got ...
So please, consider subsidees as some compensation
for take-over of major part of Polish economy ona scale
that is far larger than anything in the UK/France/Germany....
Jacek, Warsaw, Poland
THe EU is affecting my very life and will to live. It is subsuming my country, my way of life, my democratic power and as I approach retirement frankly I regard the whole thing as a fight we have lost and I am seriously depressed about the future. We HAVE been bludgeoned into a super-state without our consent and the only solution to me is to leave completely. Most of my friends have left the EU and gone to Australia or the USA to escape this monstrous project. I wish I could do the same, but I cannot. Meanwhile I have to endure Barroso who has never been elected to anything, telling us what is good for us. Even living under Hitler seems preferable, frankly!
Edward H, Guildford, UK
The EU is Plato's Republic with its Guardians designed to preserve the world FROM democracy. It is a typical 1930s relic where some new Rule by Divine Right of The Peope motivated dictators to seize power from the public......and the design of the EU has ab initio been to create an overarching autocratic regime immutable in the face of public opinion - to restore The Ancien Regime of the Great and the Good.
Politicians fear elections but the EU is the mother ship impervious to such limitations on permanent power. Hegel said "The individual is transient, The State permanent" and in the EU we have the reification of that notion.
TomTom, Leeds, England
Once again the politicians are totaly ignoring the opinion of the electorate.
I remember voting for the European Economic Community, not a political, Govermental or military community but economic, if the populance of the UK had been aware that the aim was more than the economic, i know that it would havevoted resoundingly against the motion.
Johnstone, Abu Dhabi,
It's nice to see, there are still reasonable people in Europe.
Good job!
Lukasz, Frankfurt, Germany
The EU as it currently exists is an offence to a democracy and if we are not careful we will end up as 'air strip one'. I believe in the international community, but not the EU. It is riddled with hypocracy and is one step away from an oligarchy. The more this government reshapes and limits its powers the better.
Luke Tomlinson, chelmsford, Essex
Spot on Miss Cavendish,
However I don`t hold out much hope of Blair standing up to the EU as his record is uninspiring. Witness his spineless surrender of the UK`s EU budget rebate without any quid pro quo on CAP reform.
To force Brown`s hand I would suggest that David Cameron at the first opportunity in Prime Minister`s question time ask him if intends to honour Labour`s 2005 election pledge of holding a referendum on the EU constitution. An EU constitution by another name smells just as foul.
Denver Watt, Osaka, Japan
Save us, Brits!
Save us from our continental politicians with their foolish utopias one more time. This nonsense of a European super-boureaucratic state must come to an end for the good of us all.
Marco, Venice, Italy
I've had enough, I want out of Europe... if needs be, I'll emigrate... I have never, ever voted labour... and I'm sick and tired of all the pandering and vote buying they do by means of social engineering and blatant bribery. Anyone who now votes labour wants their head examining to see if there's a brain still in there...
paulc, gloucester,
Absolutely, Kaczynskis are doing right thing and the EU is a maoist style dictatorship. If the politicians who are now in majority, have had little bit more oil in their brain, and have felt more responsible for their electorate, then all Europeans could have much more influence on policy-making and feel much more as participants and not as a mere onlookers with zero power. Bravo Poland, Britain and the Czech Republic, the truly free voices in the Union. The Union that could rests more firmly on the people's will, and not on that what some politicians in Belgium's capital arbitrarly decide, could be also a renewed EU. Let's hope for this new Union.
Stop blackmailing Poland! Poles are always first to say things that other people see as incovenient or risky.
Zygmunt, Australia
Zygmunt, Melbourne, Australia
The EU as it currently exists is an offence to a democracy and if we are not careful we will end up as 'air strip one'. I believe in the international community, but not the EU. It is riddled with hypocracy and is one step away from an oligarchy. The more this government reshapes and limits its powers the better.
Luke Tomlinson, chelmsford, Essex
Very good piece Camilla. How on earth we have allowed our political masters to systematically destroy our sovereignty I do not know. I hang my head in shame. Perhaps Mr Brown in his new "listening" and "humilty" phase will allow us to have a referendum on this issue. I shall not hold my breath. However, should he do so he could well romp home in the next election.
Nil desperandum , Worksop Notts, England
Real political aim of Germany is not European Germany , but German Europe.
I am afraid , that Europe will wake up too late.
Sławomir , Łódź, Poland
What is the confrontational approach, you are suggesting, good for? Will it bring closer cooperation, a greater weight of Europe in the world? Of course not. Britan alone is nothing in today's world, neither is Germany or Poland. The only chance all of the European countries have in a globalised world is to go forward together. And among the core values of the EU are communicating, trying to find compromises, exercising solidarity. Obviously, this does not count much in Poland (although they like the solidarity part in the form of billions of EU-Euros). But I find your call for destructive opposition simply sad.
Gundi Gadesmann, Brussels, Belgium
It is very good to hear that eventually there are some voices (not only in UK but also in Germany) which are trying to understand and support Poland's stand. Regardless of how awkward and disliked (both internally and externally) the twins are in the case of square root they are right. Poland has been through dozens of years of 'big brotherism' and the whole european bureocracy smells to us from a distance. We had many leaders who 'knew better' than the people and we are very fragile as far as democracy and freedom is concerned.
Hope we (Europeans) will be able to compromise and build a better EU with less beurocracy, less idiotic regulations and less politicall clientism. We (Poles) have struggled for decades to get ourselves free from Soviet nazis and spent almost 20 recent years working very, very hard to rebuild our country after years of occupation - we will do everything not to waste it and we will keep working to contribute further to the benefit of EU.
Kris, Warszawa, Polska
How nice it is to hear all those sweet comments about Poland. I am, however, a bit afraid that they appear in British press only when it suits UK interests. Otherwise, I am much more likely to read something completely opposite.
I hope, that this unpopular regime of Mr&Mr Kaczynski will not ruin the summit, and that UK will not use Poland to take its own hot potatoes from fire. Reference to Vienna Siege in 1683 is amusing, and not very useful.
Krzysztof, Warsaw, Poland
Whilst the Kaczinski twins seem to be totally incapable of understanding the subtleties of international politics the fact is they actually have a very valid point. The voting system currently being proposed in the new "treaty" clearly works in favour of the larger EU states and therefore, simply put, it is unfair. This central point must be understood and genuine discussion is needed to solve it. The Poles are very apprehensive of a Europe that fails to look after the interests of all its members and this is at the heart of the issue.
Let's stop being hypocrites in hastily condemning the Poles. Britain's primary concern since joining the EU has been to reduce the clearly Franco-German domination of the EU which existed up until the recent enlargement. In this regard Poland's stance is exactly in line with our own and we should support them and not deride them – although I think perhaps we could give them a little advice on the type of diplomatic language to use when putting their ca
Adam, Brussels, Belgium
Legally, the german supreme courts have never accepted that the EU has 'competence' to overturn their constitution, called the 'Basic Law'. Other countries courts have--even ours have practically said that europe can overturn an act of parliament, or at least reinterpret it, which is important when you have no written constitution. So Germany and the amazing Frau Merkel are trying to impose an order on other democratic countries that will give Germany huge binding weight in voting on laws that the German supreme courts may not allow to operate in Germany. Wunderbar! Weissbeer all round meine freunde.
There should be a referendum (another thing the Germans aren't allowed) in every country that signs up to this. Then you'd see what the people really want, and it isn't this whatever any made-up poll says. people want jobs and honest government.
Martin, London, UK
I wonder how many people who say the UK should leave the EU think that without our money it would be able to cope?
We Put in more per head than any other state in the EU, plus we also have the lowest % returning.
Ah well i do wish we would opt out, i don't think it would really hurt our standing, diplomtic ties or ability to trade. It may howvever save us signifincant amounts and enable u to focus on home and international affairs
Damain, Leamington Spa,
Can I suggest that rather than Britain, it is England that leaves the EC? Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland can stay members. After all, they are just a massive drain on our economy.
In fact, England is solely dependent on London nowadays, as our Economy is now pretty much soley based on invisible 'exports' of financial services from London.
So, if London does not mind continuing to subsidise the rest of England, after all Londoners need a second home in the Cotswolds. We can then leave the EC, become very wealthy over night, chuck out all the Scottish politicians who are running our country into the ground, even though they already have there own parliament to screw up, and then we can all visit each other on holiday and enjoy our respective cultures at our leisure.
Seems like a good plan to me.
The ability to be able to work in France or Germany without a green card is nice, but hardly worth throwing away a thousand years of independence and democracy.
Mark, Birmingham, UK
All the Poles do now is defending what they have acheived setting up rules on basis of which Poland became EU member. As simple as that.
Krzysztof Chmielewski, Eastbourne, East Sussex, UK
many of your foreign correspondents seem to view the british as anti-european. I don't believe this to be the case. most people are merely anti-centralised bureaucracy.
there are some areas where cooperation is mutally beneficial. there are many areas where eu regulation is seen simply as unwarranted interference. we have no need for a superstate of pork barrel politics.
what we would like is for those involved in decisions in the few areas of pan-european importance to take decisions which consider the needs of all. and to leave everything else to the most local level of politician possible.
the eu as currently consituted and the direction in which it seems to be heading are totally contrary to common sense, efficiency or fairness. it is unrepresentative, apparently unstoppable and run by the worst kind of weasel.
when people talk about anti-british or anti-german sentiment, they forget that we are all meant to be european. we have different interests, though!
jem, london, uk
Yorky
You`ve wrote:
"When Polish refugees came to Great Britain in the 1950s"
I think They came much more earlier - in the begining of WWII. They fighted arm to arm with England against not Nazists, but Germans, and finally They settled down in UK- after the war-because in the comunists Poland they would be sentenced to death.
It`s true, that Brits opened heart for them - but remember why they came to UK. To fight for free Poland and free Britan.
Luke, Lublin, Poland
Stefan,
'please don't forget to mention that 17 members of the union already agreed to the original constitution, many of them by majority in a referendum.' Only Spain and Luxemburg approved the constitution in a referendum. In other cases the parliaments didn't feel it was appropriate to ask the citizens about their opinion.
'How many thousands of lives were saved in the UK, because of the European working time directive and its implication that doctors now don't work 98 hours a week in their foundation year? I call that progress!'
How many?
'Yes! But don't forget to mention that the others had to drag Britain kicking and screaming every single step of the way.'
Which means that EU is able to work out a consensus under current voting system even if one of the most powerful of its members is sceptical or against.
EU Constitution should not be a toy for politicians. Here we have to chose if we're building EU in a Soviet style or in an US style,
Czachol, Krakow, Poland
I fail to see what gives this so-called "elite" their "elite" status. A real elite justifies its status on merit, and can be confident of that status. The EU diplomats resort - as Camilla Cavendish writes - to blackmail, to bullying (what else is the repeated asking until the "right" answer is obtained), and to chicanery and the treatment of those who pay for the whole thing, as idiots.
These are not the characteristics of an "elite". "Cabal" possibly, Maybe even a "clique". But there is nothing elite about the EU.
D Murphy, Skipton,
You are blocking pretty much everything, you don't want to pay a proper amount of money compared to countries like FRA, GER, etc. ...
Why don't you step out of the EU and join a "privileged partnership program" together with Turkey? I think that would be much better for everyone. You get your free trade area and can't annoy us anymore ...
Stefan, Graz, Austria
The main reason for the Poles blocking tactics is that the Kaczynskis hate the Germans...........Now aint that the truth of the matter. have you any idea of the true state of things in Poland ???
Justyna Tarczynska, Warsaw, Poland
When Polish refugees came to Great Britain in the 1950s, they were welcomed ino families and homes and for the most part, settled and integrated well of their own accord. Our present subjugation under the EU 's one rule for all integration policy is accepted by everyone except the people it affects.
To build a 'bloc' on the foundations which the Eurocrats have envisioned, bodes very ill for the future of each and every non-leader of that corrupt, non democratic, manipulative government in Brussels.
The Polish people remember their painfull history, while ours has been fogged by social engineering, I hope they stick to their guns.
I only wish the Brits had as much guts, but then, the Polish people have leaders who actually care about their interests
YORKY, Devon England,
Spot on great article If Blair bangs this through and then becomes president, would it be a case of "Sovereignty for Honours?"
Jeremy, London, England
If Europe were once united in the sharing of its common inheritance there would be no limit to the happiness, the prosperity, and the glory which its 300,000,000 or 400,000,000 people would enjoy.
There is not much understanding or sensitivity for federal political constructs in Britain. And much of what I read here rather looks like Checks and Balances than like European Politics. So Simon Munnery was possibly right with his bonmot about the English : be grateful for the Germans. Were it not for them, you would be the most hated people in Europe.
Steinmann, Berlin, Germany
The current arrangement in EC defines mutual obligations of the member states to each other and to the EC reasonably well. Attempting to rush up the changes before the respective member societies have had a reasonable amount of time to assimilate themselves to the "new reality" is both unreasonable and unworkable. It is most likely strictly in the interest of magalomaniac bureaucrat establishment in Brussells, but nobody's else. Any proposed constitutional changes should be therefore postponed for a time being. Europe was an unworkable melange as soon as the British and subsequently the Spaniards, the Portugese, the Greeks etc were invited to join. It is even more a mess after two new tranches of the central and the east Europents joined.
I was born in Poland but have lived in USA for the most of may life. I am not a fan of the Twins. I probably disagree with their modus operandi but not necesserily for the most with their stated objectives.
Ted Szafran, Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, USA
LT Szafran, Ft.Lauderdale, USA
Why UK doesn't stop to be EU member, leaving the Union once for all? I was born when UK joined EEC and all my life I heard British complaints against Brussel. That's enough. Then the Europeans could create a continental federation. Moscow and London, just good neighbours.
Francesco, Firenze,
Its the British who are blocking the president of the European Commission from being elected (uner the proposed constitution).. The Poles are huge beneficiaries of the CAP and have refused point blank to consider reforms or adjustments.
There is a perfect solution to the British problem with the EU.
Clear off.
John Barter, Padova, Poland
Of course the CAP - is grossly inefficient and should be revised but fundamentaly it is a good thing.
1. African countries got into trouble with us (IMF) telling them to grow cotton to sell so they could buy wheat. The cotton market then hit rock bottom.
2. Preserves the countryside
3. I certainly don't want Europe to lose the abilty to feed itself. The Japanese know this and subsides their farmers. Or do you really want to be threatened in the future by an African dictator - bit like Putin was/is doing with the Gas supply.
4. Heard of food miles?
5.Quality, have you eaten basic foodstuffs in the US?
terry, london,
One must ask why are the Germans so set in bringing back the EU Constituion? By the way, it is a constitution...we have a saying here in the states...if it swims like a duck and looks like a duck it is a duck! I would suggest you look back at the German Government formation after the war...it was clearly the intent to make certain that Germany was never capable of having a unified government...read Marshall Plan. Consequently, though I am certain ther is a belief amongst German leaders that a strong EU is good for Europe...look deeper. I am afraid that Stefan is drinking the koolaid...oh please. Regarding EU defense...what % of gnp is going to defense? Last, but not least, we in the states have learned it is difficult to trust those you have been elected by popular vote...our founders would turn in their graves if they could see the power of unelected administrative staff, judges, and others who make a living trying to help us. Best of luck.
Tom, Sacramento, USA
Soviet Union and European Union. In Poland we know them from our experience. Similar names, the same purpose "to build beautiful future", however using different methods. The result will be probably the same.
Don't be surprised. Poland lost too much blood defending from Germans and Soviets to become German colony again - just like this.
As far as I'm concerned I would prefer not to take even 1 cent of your money and to stay independent from European Union.
Jan, Przemysl, Poland
the germans wanted to stitch up europe in ww2 now they are trying again through the eu with their french lackies
david james, gosport, uk
Well said Camilla. The EU is totally undemocratic ; it ignores any vote against its intent and is the most wasteful organisation worldwide. Let us free ourselves from this horror.
John Ross, eastbourne , sussex
As a German, I would also like to see my government play the "national interest" as Poles do. About 1 million + Poles work in Germany, many more settled down and are perfectly integrated. I want to say Europe and its ideas work in reality very well but the politicians spoil it all.
The joke-twins cannot be taken seriously and I know many Poles (who live in Germany) are embarrassed by their leaders behaviour. Germany contributes not only loads of money but also spirit and passion to the idea of a peaceful future.
WW2 is more than 60 years ago we all lost a lot in this war. France and Germany knew they had to bury the accusations and the vendetta that lead to this catastrophe. The Polish government should grow up and bury its neurosis ones and forever.
Ingi, Dresden, Germany
"That is how Europe’s political elite views its citizens: they don’t know what’s good for them."
True, but that's true of al elites in all walks of life, and it's especially true of the labour Party.
"While EU leaders congratulate themselves on creating a foreign aid programme, recently branded one of the most wasteful and inefficient in the world, 40 per cent of the EU’s entire budget is still spent subsidising European farmers to keep African food out of the market. What hypocrisy.
"
I've been banging about this hyprocrisy for years. It's 100% true. The EU leaders have no interest in helping the third world, it's all about selfishness and conscience salving.
Let the Africans enagage in full fair trade with us and support their leaders who grope for democracy and the rule of law, and Africa will solve its own problems over time, without our insulting hand outs.
And someone please shut up those sanctimonious pop stars.
Neil Murphy, cromer,
Sarco & Zappo 4 a united Europe. The French and Spanish Presidents have called for a greater coherence within in the Union And.I'm supporting them. The EU has transformed Europe.We all know that the Europe today would have been impossible without it. To call it undemocratic is a folly. The democratically elected leaders are NOW sitting around a table discussing its future shape. No its not perfect, the working of 27 differing countries are bound to cause headaches. But the only way for the EU to continue to force the hand of other world traders is simply by it having CLOUT.To do this we must pool a progressive amount of sovereignity. Referendums? Total waste of time. Simply hi-jacked by minority interests -and there are many of those around- . Also the question is isolated from everything else. No, the leaders have their elected mandates as authority.
Ian, Southport,
The Poles are just using their voting power to protect their national interests. They don't want to live in a German-dominated (or (or a Franco-German dominated) Europe.
As for the subsidies: The EU admitted Poland because it saw an EU interest in doing so. The Poles owe the EU nothing, and certainly not their votes on any particular proposal.
In the US, the negotiations over the 1789 Constitution would have collapsed if it were not for the creation of a Senate with equal representation of states without regard to population. I think Germany is going to have to make some similar concessions on majority voting in the EU if it wants to push its pseudo-Constitution through.
Matt, Northampton, Massachusetts, USA
"...keep African food out of the EU" What rubbish. First of all, Africa has not had a food surpluss since Joseph advised the Pharoah. Secondly, have you ever heard of Mad Cow Disease. No blood bank in the US will accept me as a donor because I lived in The Netherlands in 1984-85. That is almost certainly the result of importin beef from Botswana.
Doug Forbes, Wheeling, USA
From Scotland the position looks different.The Euro federal destiny is perceived as inevitable and also we view it as a balancing force ,mitigating the Londoncentric UK empire, providing an alternative to being simply a Bush White House poodle, and bringing much needed change to these insular shores.We know that our Euro future as a successful little country like Eire or Denmark does not seem so scary.We need Europe to counter the awful surveillance tabloid gulag culture that Britain has become .The growing anti-Scottish racism that petty little England displays in its paranoid media is contrasted by the warm welcome we get from mainstream Europe.The tide is unstoppable so wake up and smell the Euroses.The party is on and you are all invited!
Iain Kennedy, Glasgow,
Thanks for the article ! Regards
Piotr, Warsaw, Poland
THE E.E.C. IS A BUREAUCRATIC NIGHTMARE, AND GETTING WORSE VERY DAY.IT IS TOTALLY OUT OF CONTROL,watch all the clips on u tube and see the chaos
in brussels,its like the blind leading the blind enough said.
george william taylor, HULL, UK
Camilla,
please don't forget to mention that 17 members of the union already agreed to the original constitution, many of them by majority in a referendum. Why is it so laughable to make a case for them? Just because they didn't vote the way you would have liked them to?
And something else:
How many thousands of lives were saved in the UK, because of the European working time directive and its implication that doctors now don't work 98 hours a week in their foundation year? I call that progress!
"Since the constitution was voted down two years ago, the EU has created the world’s first emissions trading scheme and the European Defence Agency." Yes! But don't forget to mention that the others had to drag Britain kicking and screaming every single step of the way. Reasons to believe that it will be similar with many other measures adopted by the new "constitution", like a common and organised terror-prevention policy
Stefan, Southampton, Hampshire
The agreements reached will be fudges; a bit of this or a bit of that, a concesssion here balancing another from someone else to make it as difficult as possible to frame a referendum question and confuse everyone. When its over we will all move on to our jobs and families. Blair to his lecture tour and Brown to his next eye catching initiatives but the EU, ignoring the summit as irrelevant will silently get on with accruing power to itself until in a few years no one will want to dig it all up and ask what happened in 2007. The next summit will be the same sort of show, with red lines, confusion, and deals to make the politicians look busy and keep the voters diverted while the EU continues power grabbing until we find that we could go to jail for calling ourselves British.
R Mason, London, UK
Many thanks for such an accurate and articulate article.
What worries me most about the UK currently is that the Conservative Party seems paralyzed by fear that any talk of Europe will hurt it's electoral chances.
If only Cameron would put Country before Party and echo these sentiments across the land!
Jeremy Sharpe, Utrecht, Netherlands
What a clearly laid out article this is , as clear as anything can be on the EU activities .
I am not a fan of Gordon Brown but if he sticks to his guns & really does stand up to the bullies in Europe, it could change my opinion of him.
The Poles are an intelligent race & it is good to see they have the courage to stand up for what they want.
I understood the idea of the EU was toopen up trade & do away with protectionism, but it seems it's is ALL about protecting Europe from the rest of the world, [ especially the greedy French farmers ] To give our money to Africa then refuse to trade with them is not only hypocrisy at the highest level, but demeaning & insulting. It smacks of imperialism, throwing a bit of cash in their direction to keep them dependent on us instead of allowing them to thrive & grow their own economies.
Maggie Millington, Brittany, France
Bravo Camilla! Thank you for this article!
Britain, Poland, and other EU countries must do all they can to restore the spirit of free debate, and curb the EU's unelected, heavily politicized institutions.
Marcin, Warsaw, Poland
Well done the terrible twins! To use a very unfashionable term, what they are being is patriots!
The EU is in fact a dictatorship, with it's pressidium leaders, it takes it's que from the soviet and chinese "people's parties", (maybe why Poland knows something about this) and obviously it doesn't need to ask it's people anything, it knows best!
There are no middle ways, no "third way". A democracy holds elections, if it doesn't than it's just not a democracy!
Jondi, London,
Colin, you are deluded. Poland-Lithuania saved Europe at the Battle of Vienna from an Ottoman force twice their size. Otherwise the gates to Western Europe were open. Poland fought alongside Britain in WWII, despite not really being helped until it was too late. Polish soldiers, my grandfather included, took Monte Cassino, that had held up the Allied advance through Italy that was vital to our victory. Poland has contributed culturally to European life, including founding one of the continents' oldest universities at Krakow. The Jews were granted sanctuary by Kazimierz the Great, more than any other ruler ever. Solidarity hastened the end of the USSR. Poland is a key player in European history, politics and culture.
Ben, York,
If Brown walks away from this Treatistution cobblers it will be a positive start for him. I don't see how he can allow any ground to be conceded...Merkel's lapdog is not a good look for our new leader.
Neil, Hamble, Hampshire
Hear, hear!!!
Ian Dickson, Brighton, UK
I totally agree with the author. There are only 2 questions every EU citizen wants answered concerning the EU:
What is it for ? and What does it do for me ?
If only because of the "Democratic Deficit", Britain will inevitably have to leave the EU and negotiate trading terms only, sooner rather than later would be best. I am very fond of our European neighbours but, I don't want to live there and I want the House of Lords as our final Court not, the European Court.
If today 80% of our Laws come from Brussels then we only need 20% of our existing MPs or if we keep all 600+, they take a pay cut of 80% ! Silly but it illustrates the sheer stupidity of the current situation where a "Sovereign Parliament" is in fact a museum and our MPs merely actors dressed up to make it all seem "real" for the tourists.
John Haynes, Burnham on Sea, UK
Good to have this wonderful oppurtunity by the internet to easily hear other voices from other countries. As a German - most of the time fed by German media - I was cross with these Polish twins (reasons enough for that). But reading your clearly defined position makes me ponder. Nothing better could be said about a commentary.
Karl-Heinz P. Kohn, Berlin and Schwerin, Germany
Absolutely right.
The EU is tying itself in knots trying to become a United States of America (2). As you say it should concentrate on other things.
Excellent piece.
P Sword, Warsaw, Poland
Hear hear. The arrogance of our so called elite is breathtaking and infuriating in equal measure. And why are we allowing a prime minister without another election to face and with his eye on his legacy and a future job to do our negotiating for us? Yet another example of their disdain for democracy and the people they purport to represent.
We should have a referendum regardless so that we can call a halt to this project once and for all. They keep finding backdoors to sneak their legislation through. Only by giving a resounding no and sparking a real crisis will we ever keep all of the doors shut.
Paul Owen, Birmingham, UK
The Poles learnt from Blair's abject surrender of the British rebate that you need to fight for your country's interests, and not to trust the promises of others.
Unfortunately, Blair's negotiation tactics are to go into the chamber armed with a white flag, and intending to use his weapon.
Cynosarges, London, UK
Regarding the Poles, the difference, of course, is that they are a client state of the EU. They joined to get the Germans' (and our) money and will ultimately toe the line. We are in exactly the opposite position being one of the few EU contributors and we consistently fail to use this fact to our advantage. As a first step we could say to the French that our net contribution will be exactly the same as theirs in future. Tony Blair has been a disaster on this front and wasted huge sums of our money propping up French, Spanish and other farmers, most of the money going to very large agribusinesses that need no help at all.
Colin , Shrewsbury,
Splendid words - totally agree - but who is going to take any notice? We have accepted EU lies and half-truths for years. Many parts of the constitution are already implemented despite the French and Dutch 'no' votes.
We need to leave the EU, which is unnecessary, undemocratic, unaccountable and corrupt, but our weak politicians will never find the courage? Sad, for a once great country, now reduced to a series of EU regions.
Peter Ainsley, Elstead, UK
Britain and Poland should be kicked out of EU
Massias, Casablanca, Maaroc
What would be so bad about a full-time european president and foreign minister. Shouldnt europe speak with one voice ?
At a time where the US government claims to lead all of us into a bright future (www.usgloballeadership.org) this is deeply necessary.
What is the problem with a charter of fundamental rights ?
To face this as a problem is ridicolous , but oh, i forgot the infamy of granting workers co-decision power in their businesses . Nearly communism , isn't it ? i wonder how the germans managed to become europes strongest economy with this burden .
And yes, i do NOT think that every country should have the same vote within the EU. As the polish gov seem to be more interested in a transatlantic poodle relationship (the british knwo what i mean :) ) and consequently resist any effort of the EU to speak with one voice i personally dont want a cent of my taxes to by waisted in Poland (give it to the french farmers, they make much better products anyway )
Florian , Cologne, Germany