Camilla Cavendish
Win a fitness package worth more than £3,000
The public is not daft,” says the refreshingly blunt Louise Casey, government crime adviser. Too right. We see ministers demanding tougher sentences and instructing earlier release. We see police forces spending ten times more on PR (what they want us to know) than on freedom of information (what we want to know). We wonder whether blokes on community sentences will wear Ms Casey's fluorescent “Convict!” jackets, like some kind of boy band, or will call in sick to skip the gig. And some of us wonder why one stark fact is missing from almost every review of criminal justice, including Ms Casey's - that the people who have most reason to fear the police no longer do so. When criminals don't fear the law, we are all in trouble.
Politicians seem far more interested in why the public's fear of crime is so high than in why miscreants' fear of the law is so low. Years of being told by academics that fear of crime is as important as crime itself seems to have made them determined to convince us that crime statistics are improving. But are those of us who doubt them wholly irrational?
Perhaps not. Stranger-murder - long used by many US police forces to track the underlying level of violence in society, but not separated out by the Home Office until The Times made a freedom of information request - has risen by 14 per cent since 1997. Violence seems to be becoming more vicious, with some accident and emergency doctors seeing more victims of stabbings. Many are teenagers. But the British Crime Survey, routinely trotted out to support claims that violence is down, doesn't include victims under 16.
So the 14-year-old boy stabbed in Southwark, South London, on Tuesday afternoon after a row with a group of youths will not register.
The boy was airlifted to hospital and, thankfully, looks likely to pull through. He was lucky - if you can call it lucky to have a narrow escape from death at 5pm on an ordinary London street. Every time a child is stabbed, police accuse the press of stoking up fear. But I don't want police who sound complacent, I want them determined to root out every last thug from every last bolt hole.
The day before the stabbing in Southwark, I had lunch with a friend who had been a prosecutor in 1980s Manhattan when gang crime was at its height. She speaks about the extraordinary success of the New York Police Department in an utterly matter-of-fact way. Their main weapon, she says, was information - who did what, where and when.
Witnesses who were hauled in were often so impressed by the team's knowledge that they would spill the beans. They also knew without doubt that the sanctions would be serious. New York was not squeamish about punishment. Now that London looks more like 1980s New York than New York itself, you might think that people would want to borrow the ideas that got the thugs running scared.
Yet Boris Johnson's proposal for “crime mapping” is meeting enormous resistance. The Metropolitan Police have long claimed that they map the streets, just as Rudy Giuliani did. But they won't publish the information.
Mr Giuliani used his data to make public comparisons of the performance of his commanders and tp hold them to account. He had no qualms about firing those who fell behind, or shipping them off to East Podunk. This made them phenomenally effective. British police, on the other hand, seem reluctant to sneak on each other. Even the bold Louise Casey, who wants police to report their actions to local monthly meetings, doesn't dare to suggest that citizens should get their hands on the data.
The squeamishness of British justice policy was neatly captured in last weekend's report by Professor Sir Al Aynsley-Green, the Children's Commissioner. On one page he spoke of his shock that so many British children live in fear. On another he expressed horror that so many children are being locked up. He appeared to see no contradiction between wanting to protect the majority while excusing the minority.
Yet some children are also thugs. However deprived their backgrounds, we cannot make them immune from the consequences of their actions. Many of them are kids who got away with playing truant at school; who were given a warning, which they saw as meaningless, for carrying a knife; who waited outside the magistrates' court to see if the witness would turn up, so that they could attend if he did, scarper if he didn't.
The “conveyor belt to crime” does not start in jail. It starts the first time that the authorities let children get away with something that they should not have done.
This does not mean that jailing youths is an easy decision. The sotto voce row between Ed Balls and Jack Straw over the future of the Youth Justice Board reflects the genuine difficulties of knowing how to punish youngsters without further entrenching them in a life of crime.
The choice between custody and rehabilitation should be an utterly false one. Custody should keep offenders off the streets and help them into a better future. But Britain's appalling record on rehabilitation means that the system stumbles from harshness to leniency and back, emboldening criminals and eroding public faith.
Right now, teenagers who carry knives seem more frightened of each other than of the law. We can't change that with adverts, only with police whose pensions depend on eradicating knives. Government must stop giving conflicting signals.
Yesterday in the Commons, Nick Herbert, the Shadow Justice Secretary, attacked the early release of violent criminals who are getting out of jail before their victims expect it, with no warning. “With this appalling policy”, he said, “comes a human price.” We all pay an enormous price for a system in which wrongdoers make a mockery of the law. That is daft. And criminal.
Camilla Cavendish has been a McKinsey management consultant, an aid worker, and CEO of a not-for-profit company. She is now a leader writer and columnist on The Times
Industry sectors news at a glance. Interactive heatmap, video and podcast
The inside track on current trends in the charity, not for profit and social enterprise sectors
Read our exclusive 100 Years of Fleming and Bond interactive timeline, packed with original Times articles and reviews
Everything the Business Traveller needs to know to make a better trip
Shortcuts to help you find sections and articles
05/2005
£13,500
08/2008
£109,950
2006
£10,750
Great car insurance deals online
£Excellent+ executive benefits
Torres and Partners
London
£49,229 - £62,035 pro rata
Charity Commission
London/Liverpool/Taunton
Alstom Power
Europe
Six Figure
Rolls Royce
Midlands/Europe
From £89,950
Great Investment, River Views
Special Offers now available
At the new sophisticated
Encore Las Vegas Resort!
Cruise the Islands of Hawaii - Pride of America
List your property with two leading travel websites
Great travel insurance deals online
Contact our advertising team for advertising and sponsorship in Times Online, The Times and The Sunday Times, or place your advertisement.
Times Online Services: Dating | Jobs | Property Search | Used Cars | Holidays | Births, Marriages, Deaths
News International associated websites: Globrix | Property Finder | Milkround
Copyright 2008 Times Newspapers Ltd.
This service is provided on Times Newspapers' standard Terms and Conditions. Please read our Privacy Policy.To inquire about a licence to reproduce material from Times Online, The Times or The Sunday Times, click here.This website is published by a member of the News International Group. News International Limited, 1 Virginia St, London E98 1XY, is the holding company for the News International group and is registered in England No 81701. VAT number GB 243 8054 69.
If youth go on commtting crime like adults then they should be given severe punishment like adults. National service for youth at 15.
Abdullah, London, England
We need to set the tone. The parent who shopped his gun toting son to the police did the right thing. It may have saved his sons life and other lives. He is also standing by his son and says they will get through it together as a family. This is good parenting. It supports but does not excuse.
John, Woking, UK
We have had years of liberal dribble that has been responsible for the deaths of many people. Enforced education in prison with sentences extended for every missed day, no early release, no day release, no sex visits, no release for murderers, stamping out drugs with cavity searches of visitors etc
David Smith, Stourbridge, UK
Matt from Houston's comments are obviously meant to be "tongue in cheek", but the irony is this will no doubt be proposed by the idiots in charge of the justice system.
If supermarkets sell all food in bite size pieces, knives can be erradicated from our streets (and kitchens)!
peterj, malvern, uk
Do we really think the police now represent our interests? Do we really believe the democratic machine directs the police to what the public requires?
The police have it good. Whatever they do they will have a job tomorrow, they have the best pension scheme in the UK paid for by the taxpayer.
John, N Yorks,
Ms. Cavendish makes excellent points.
Clearly letting children walk free after conviction for a major crime or after a second conviction for a minor does not rehabilitate them.
There is a big range of options between British leniency and the US practice of locking people away for ever.
Keith S, Winnipeg, Canada
Where are the "holiday camps"? What are YOI's and prisons really like? In what way is anti-social behaviour not punished?
An informed debate instead of ill-informed rants would help advance the debate about crime and punishment.
Michael, Newcastle, England
Matt from Houston, please tell me that was intended with some irony, as i doubt i'll enjoy eating seak with my fingers, or eating my onions mashed.
simon mawdsley, london, uk
The only way to stop knife crime is to ban all knives!!! This includes pocket knives, kitchen knives, butter knives, razor blades....People are not the problem, its the knives!!!
Matt, Houston, USA
"Punishment alone will not eradicate crime" but it's a damn good start.
The USA versus Sweden argument is just so much nonsense but attracts a body of adherents who seize on one statistic.
David, Bromley,
Having been a victim of crime and antisocial behaviour myself along with my partner I would suggest we use the ever growing prison population to build more prisons and should the prison population shrink again we should use the current crop to demolish the surplus, and so on.
Easy isn't it?
Paul W, Swindon, UK
It has been said over and over again that the ONLY deterrent for crime is the certainty of being caught. Subsequent penalty is a minor matter.
The crime problems in Britain are unequivically the fault of the retreat of the Police Force from the streets.
Remember Pavlov's Dogs !
BP Vallance, Corfu, Greece
"When criminals don't fear the law, we are all in trouble."
It goes deeper than that. Socially criminals were once stigmatised and that stigma served as a deterrent. Now, in certain circles at least, criminal behaviour is idolised. Where ASBOs are seen as a badge of honour criminal conduct is meaningless.
Rob H, MCR,
Andy, Nottingham:
New York murder rate: 6.02 per 100,000 people
London murder rate: 2.57 per 100,000 people
There's a difference for sure, but London is fast catching up on NYC.
KB, London, UK
The word ,rehabilitation,implies that there was,at some tme in the past,an individual who was good and has now merely gone astray.It should be a simple matter to put this person back on the right track.To this I say,"bull cuckey".Most of these cretins were useless at the start,.
ron, toronto,
I could not care less if criminals are rehabilitated,what i and the majority of people want is that they are punished,not in a "Butlins Holiday Camp" but in a harsh prison enviroment.If they persist in criminality then they and only they have themselves to blame and suffer for their actions.
Kenneth O'Boyle, Perth, UK
Punishment does not stop crime, the certainty of being caught stops crime and just like cancer fails to stop smoking because it will not happen to me, so crime will not stop until there is a certainty of being caught.
David Green, Newark, England
London had less than 100 murders last year, New York 500, out of populations of 7 and 8 million respectively. Murders are 25 times more common (compared to population size) in America than Britain. Please learn to count and stop being silly.
Andy, Nottingham, UK
it is high time parents should be allowed to displine their children like the old times.until that balance is restored our childen will not develop manners and self control.until displine is observed as an important tool in the growth children all our talk will be in vein
kuda, derby,
The social safeguards that were in place to stop criminal behaviour have been stripped - the law abiding have no power in society anymore.
The police are directed by politicians and not by the rule of law.
Only zero tolerence & dumping the Human Rights Act will restore safety & democracy.
E Telfer, Queensland, Australia
America has harsher punishment than UK and more crime, Sweden has more leniency and less crime. Prison trains people as criminals. Labelling makes people commit more crime. Crackdowns make criminals more violent to avoid capture. Instead of throwing money away on prisons, spend on public services.
Andy, Nottingham, UK
The suggestion is that crime needs harsh punishment. Perhaps, but not as a cure. This government won't pay barristers to prosecute, spends masses on incompetent contractors, chronically underfunds the CPS and closes rehab centres.
It wrecks what works to pay for jails which produce criminals.
richard, horley,
For the last 10 yrs or more we have been confusing 'PUNISHMENT' with 'REHABILITATION'
Offenders are born into a life of crime, it is rarely a choice for them.
Community prisons may be the answer to both problems. Structured re-education with qualifications would restore offenders self esteem!
Shelly, Durham, Co Durham
The problem is that although the majority believes anti-social behaviour should be punished, the minority (comprised largely of lawyers) holds the strings of influence and legislators dance accordingly.
Control of the criminal justice system must be wrested from those who think they know best!
Paul Neri, Canberra , Australia
if 10% of the people in non-jobs in the public sector created since 1997 were made to work on the front line as probation officers, prison educators etc.. there would be ample resources for a proper regime of custody and rehabilitation.
NBeale, London, England
Punishment alone will not eradicate crime. Only profound social and cultural change can bring about real improvement in crime statistics.
Mira, London, UK
Whatever happened to the terms "innocent until PROVEN Guilty"?
These days, it seems not one iota of that phrase applies to anyone. Could that possibly be what they are afraid of? "They will say I did something, so I might as well do this..."
This is not condoning violence Just questions.
DSC, Portland, USA
I'm afraid that 'morality' is a delusion. Over several generations punishment and punishment alone dictates what is an abomination. Homosexuality was normal (even socially desirable) until Christians started burning you for it. Drunken driving made you 'a lad' until it carried harsh penalties.
Eric Skelton, Cardiff, Wales
'In a nutshell' severe physical punishment is the only deterrent to violent crime, sexual crime cannot be deterred but must also receive this form of punishment.
We need a leader who is conscious, brave and unnerving, from a governing party with backbone.
James Leasor, HARROGATE, ENGLAND