Exactly. My parents came here as professionals from India over thirty years ago, and made an effort to embrace British culture. As a result, through my upbringing I've come to identify myself not only as someone whose cultural heritage is Indian, but also as someone who is a British citizen.

When British culture lost, and immigrants have no reason to assimilate with the British people then all sorts of problems are caused. Think about why London and Glasgow fell victim to attacks from homegrown terrorist acts. It wasn't unfortunate, it was a problem that had been brewing for years; when immigrants don't identify themselves as being British, and can't understand or connect to mainstream British culture, they become so isolated that they don't think twice about launching an attack on the country that has given them so much.

Latch Haran, Cambridge, UK

I am not a morning person but I'm sure the call to prayer will not impinge on my freedom as a human being. The underlying principle of any self-propagating culture should be freedom for all. Only with this principle can we understand and take responsibility for our actions as a country/a race/a species. Only the hands of men, not gods, can take our freedoms away.

Political correctness has been killing the English identity and culture for years, and only seems to be getting worse. When figureheads who are seemingly crack pots believe they can decide what's best for all of us, when there wasn't really an issue there to begin with.

We may be going about things in different ways, but I think freedom is at the centre of the human heart, as we all yearn for the freedom to live the lives that are ours. And even though we move in different ways, ultimately, we move as one.

Andrew, Burton On Trent, Staffs (UK)

Lukey Boy hasn't been to the Philippines, one of the most Christian countries on earth. The churches where I live pray by very loudspeakers anytime from 3.30am onwards - I can hear St Rita a kilometre away. I can't say it wakes me up though. We squabble about religion and then blame it for wars. Who was it said "the best religion is the most tolerant" ? Live and let live.

John Orford, Balingasag, Misamis Oriental, Philippines

Will Moslems let us build pubs and churches in thier islamic countrys? Will they allow topless sunbathing? I think not. And theres your answer to Oxford. Getting woken up at 5am by someone screeming Allah is not what I consider an alarm clock. No, let them set their alarm clocks or use their mobile phones, after all nothing in the koran forbits it so it shouldnt cause any offense to them

Lukey Boy, Herts., UK

Well, the call to prayer is nothing more than an obtrusive coercion method of ensuring your "flock" are compliant. Equally baffling are the special compasses some Muslims use to point themselves towards Mecca while praying. I needn't point out that such a mechanism when used from the UK will lead the devoted to point towards somewhere in outer space, rather than Saudi Arabia.

(If only I had space here to copy and paste Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett and Jonathon Miller!)

A. Morgan, Cambridge, UK

Do people even realise thatthe vast majority of British Muslims wouldn't even bother asking for this kind of accomodation to their religion? I'm sure many would be pleased if it were to happen, but few of them would actually ASK for it. So once again, Mr Finklestein, you are doing little more than starting a debate Muslims didn't ask for - and, along with the rest of Western media, turning Western views more against Muslims who are for the large part trying to live life like the rest of us. I'm tired ot the media trying to provoke us like this - because most of us are stupid enough to fall for it, as many of the comments show.

Student, London,

Here in South Africa some Muslim communities have rigged radio receivers in their houses to hear the Muezzin. Perhaps its something you folks could try. Having worked in Cairo for some time I have to say that the call is pretty intrusive at first but like trains planes and automobiles you become accustomed. It is however, highly territorial and coercive. To Muslims that is. I never felt obliged to make salah.

David Viljoen, Parys, RSA

The author has called it correctly and sensitively. Historically, Britain has managed to cultivate its minorities without alienating them. The strident call for one minority to impinge on the quiet moderation of the community, has serious ramifications. Britons should demonstrate Passionate Moderation and reject this move. After all, would the same be allowed in an avowedly Muslim country such as Pakistan or Saudi Arabia?

Michael Leigh, West Kensington, London

Good bye England. Hello New Islamia.

I fear the Neville Chamberlains in Downing Street have signed the death warrant on a once great nation.
Let the epitaph read: Tolerant the point of it's own nations suicide.

Rachel Wells, Shrewsbury.,

For some years I hosted Arab students here in Brighton, and at one point had four of them in residence. One of these four was particularly religious and would summon the others to prayer at the crack of dawn, whether they liked it or not. And they didn't like it.
When he moved out he used to return regularly on Friday nights to 'accompany' them to one of the two local mosques. The others used to ask me to tell him that they had already gone to the mosque, but that I didn't know which one. Puzzled by this, I asked why they just didn't tell him outright that they didn't want to go. They were amazed that I should even ask the question. I didn't get an answer, and I have always presumed that the answer was so apparent (to them) that the question need not be asked.

Vince Meegan, Brighton & Hove, UK

Interesting dillemma but I think Mia's on the right track here. If computers can call the hour for prayer so can cell phones and they are much less intrusive than tower bells.

Elan Durham, Santa Monica, CA/US

davey of Townsville has it.

This is the thin end of the wedge. Loudspeakers would proliferate and as davey reminds us this can be at 5 a.m. or so, this is not what one appreciates - especially on a Sunday morning or after a good party the night before.

No loudspeakers. Let them buy computer programmes, special watches, etc. to remind themselves.

mike, vientiane, Laos

Michael Carrigan may have enjoyed the 'soothing & relaxing' call to prayer when living in Arabic Countries. I happen to have loathed it whilst living in Cairo and Sudan for many years. A question of taste rather than 'tin' ear, I would suggest. But, as I lived there, I was hardly going to complain about it to anyone.

I strongly believe that all Muslims, wanting to attend mosques for prayers on time, are clever enough to set their alarms. If they really need to be assisted and reminded via the call to prayer; they have a huge amount of countries to choose from where they have this service five times a day. NOT in Great Britain, a Christian Country.

LT, Warminster, UK

Can Church of England churches ring their bells in Muslim countries? Reciprocity often helps clear ones ideas about what is fair and what is not....

Rosamund, Beijing, China

Posters generally appear focused on either accommodation or a technological solution. The issue is more problematic. Just read the actual text of the adhan, this Islamic call to prayer. It is wailed only in Arabic- the language of salafist Sunni Islam. It is nothing less than a statement of theological and cultural triumphalism, and cannot be compared with the Sunday ringing of church bells. It's amplified transmission should be disallowed in any non-Islamic society.

Eric Green, Peterborough,

It is well known that the Prophet ordained the use of loudpeakers as mandatory. Isn't that obvious?

Seriously, muslims and arabs are welcome in GB because of their money. Three days ago I spent two nights in a 5 star hotel near Hyde Park: 6 Arabic channels, including AlJazeera and only 5 english language channels.

A streetwalker by any other name.....is called England.

This is not about respect. It's about who has the money to pay.

Phillip, Indianapolis, USA

Muslims don't listen to the call just to be 'reminded' - it's meant to make you stop, stand, face Mecca, and contemplate as you listen and repeat: a minor ritual.

I have a program on my computer that automatically plays the call to prayer at the programmed times. There are also clocks that will do this, and I imagine it wouldn't be too difficult to do on mobiles.

I personally love hearing bells. There's something nice about a sound designed to interrupt your train of thought, and some are beautiful and chiming, as is a well-sung call to prayer. However, the church opposite my house installed a great big horrible-sounding clanging one that seems to go off for 10 minutes at a time every Sunday, at no set time, in a very multifaith residential area. It's also then followed by the African singing - on a mic with the door open - for about 2-3 hours. When studying for my pre-clinical exams, it drove me nuts.

I say we either ban all faith 'noise' or allow it all - I'd rather the latter.

Mia, London,

After recently returning from several months in Malaysia and Indonesia my advice, unless you really want to be blasted out of your bed at 5am each morning, is to avoid the amplified call-to-prayer at all costs.

davey, Townsville, Queensland

This demand for loudspeakers to broadcast the call to prayer is a red herring. These people are testing the patience of the rest of us secular people to see how far they can push us.

If they have managed without the call to prayer to date then they should continue to do so.

If they must hear the ugly wail of the call to prayer then they can leave our shores for friendlier countries, like Saudi Arabia.

Salauddeen, London,

Mr. Finkelstein,

You misunderstand the purpose of the call toprayer and the loudspeakers. It's purpose is to intimidate and bully anyone who doesn't want to participate. The first targets, of course, are fellow Arabs who wouldn't go to the Mosque...except for the public pressure to attend the Muslim religious service. From there, the purpose is to harass everyone else in the surrounding area. This is how Islam invades and undermines, and then obliterates other cultures and religions.

And now you've got some Anglican Archbishop advocating that the Muslim community not be subject to British law, but to maintain their own jurisdiction under Sharia law -- which is utterly ludicrous, because Sharia law has no problem with a Muslim killing a non-Muslim.

American and Australia are still free of this nonsense... get out while you can.

Aaron Kulkis, Royal Oak, Michigan, USA

I thought Daniel Finkelstein put a very serious point very gently and that it was an admirable article.

anne, London,

I lived & worked in Saudi Arabia & the UAE for over 20 years & found the Muslim call to prayer over loudspeakers & on the local television stations most soothing & relaxing. Arabic is a beautiful language to hear, one does not have to understand it to appreciate this. Mr. Finkelstein must have a 'tin' ear.

Michael Carrigan, Weymouth, United Kingdom

Mr Finkelstein, I live within walking distance to "Kinloss", within the "eruv" (which is nothing sinister as some of the commenters think, but a nominal boundary, invisible to those who do not specifically look for it).. My partner of nearly a quarter of a century, is himself a Jewish ex-refugee (and former British commando). Maybe we can have a trade-off with different and conflicting interests: IF we can have on-demand traffic lights for the main roads next to "Kinloss", for the benefit of its often elderly and infirm congregants (and all other pedestrians), then why not accommodate Muslims as well, there is nothing theologically objectionable to "Allahu Akbar" for either Christians or Jews. It's the intrusiveness of both church bells and electronically-amplified muezzins that's the problem. I am an unbeliever in all three monotheist faiths, and as a disabled pedestrian, I think cars are intrusive also, noisy and ubiquitous...We can all compromise if we really want.

Julia Iskandar, London, England

Why do Muslims need to be called t o prayer through loudspeakers anyway? There is no practical reason for it. Do they need loudspeakers to get them off to work in the mornings? Presumably they do go to work and manage to turn up on time like anyone else. There is also a difference between church bells and the muezzin. Church bells we normally only hear one day a week, once or twice a day and not through loudspeakers! If we did I am sure there would be complaints even perhaps from church going Christians.

Sandra Smith, Penzance, UK

India is a Hindu country, yet it allows Muslims to blare prayer calls from loudspeakers......So what?

It may wake you, but that saves buying an alrm-clock, no?

And why should Britian not also allow Hindus to blast temple horns early in the morning? That is what they do in India.

Time for Briatin to realise that Musims are here. Also time for Mus.lims to realise Hindus are here. Wakey-wakey.

My fear is that if Muslims and Hindus do not get these rights it could lead to violent outbreaks. That is what we must prevent.

Do not craete grievances in Muslim and Hindu hearts.

Ganpat Ram , London , UK

What a wonderful article. Well argued, without trying to cause anyone any offence, more trying to have an open discussion on what is usually a sensitive issue.

Jen, Notting Hill, LONDON

Rebecca Foote , Leicester, UK, you are right this is your country and your view should be taken into consideration, but since you will most likely be in the minority bracket as opposed to the majority one and since this is also a democracy (unlike ALL the muslim-run countries), well.......you get the picture.

J Roberts, Manchester, UK

All this blather about church bells. They aren't a "call to the faithful" or what have you and I can think of half a dozen buildings in just 20 miles of my local town that have a clock and a bell without being even remotely christian in nature. Bells on public clocks are an inclusive public service. The muezzin is an exclusionary noise designed to cow "unbelievers" and announce Islam's dominance over an area.

Graham Dawson, Stalybridge, Cheshire

This isn't really an issue about religion, inclusion or immigrants. It is merely a matter of potential noise pollution, which will, of course, be dealt with by the local council.

A proposal for a local Anglican church to affix speakers onto its spire to call the faithful into prayer at all times of the day would similarily be refused.

Daniel, Belfast,

I would suggest that Muslims having difficulty in praying 'on time' adapt the following strategy:

1 Go to local shops
2 Buy a watch
3 Wear the watch

Simple but effective. This is not an Islamic country. We are more tolerant of immigrant people than most other nations, but it seems there is always something else being demanded.

Allie, London,

Any attempt to graft man made faith based "religions" on to , or in to, child or adult should be resisted.
Conditioning the sometimes innocent intended recipient to beleive the myths and simplistic domination of theocrats is, or should be abhorrent to any civilised being.
Morality and humanity is not confined to the "faithfull" and very often totally lacking therein.
Rather teach and learn from history what results from submission to any faith based dogma.
ron reece

ron reece, blackmore , essex

As a deaf Muslim I find myself not knowing what time to turn up to Mosque. I suggested a signer to accompany the call to prayer whilst living in Finsbury Park but Abu Hamza would not even consider this.

Siad, London, UK

Nick, London UK, you need to check your latest census details and you'll find you couldnt be more wrong.

It is in no way necessary for a call to prayer in east oxford, if it is essential then those who reside in the local area would never have moved to the UK in the first place.

Immigration is a two way process of accomodation, the british are very good at a accomodating immigrants and making use of their culture and skills offered, all we ask is that the same respect is granted in return.

James, London, London

British tolerence! Can´t anyone recognise satire!!!

Brooks, Munich, Germany

This should not be a problem given it's only three times a day during daylight. Annoyed about the noise? Doesn't Big Ben chime 24/7? That sounds annoying. If I was living near Big Ben, could I ask that it stop because it was too noisy and disturbing my sleep. Sure, I could. And then everyone in England would tell me to get stuffed and move away if I didn't like the sound.

While I understand Western countries are having a hard time reconciling their traditional Christian values with the immigrant traditional Muslim values, telling these immigrants (who might already be generational English citizens) that they can't put up loudspeakers to call to prayer because it goes against "English Christian values" smacks of racism. And you can't hide it in anti-noise laws. That is a red herring, which will only further divide Christians and Muslims. Muslims will understand the real intent of the prohibition. This does not seem like an unreasonable request by the Mosque and it should be allowed.

Dalton, Toronto, Canada

Like it is popularly said, when in Paris, behave like a Parisian, i say when in Britain, behave British and have respect for those around you. It is fundamental for every being to have their rights not trampled upon but i think the most important thing to learn from this debacle is how to help our Muslim brothers and sisters to benefit from technology.

Some learned people haev suggested using mobile technology to solve the challenge. I put it to readers of this column that if a good technological solution can be found for this challenge, it will be a win-win situation.

So any ideas?

Morakinyo, Essex, Essex

Amsterdam:they decided many years ago not to allow "the sound of the muezzin from the minaret, " not wholly because Holland is a supposedly christian state (although being a valid point) but it would be a disturbance culturally and would antagonise further the feeling of residents as to the amount and cost to their remembered christian conscious /sub conscious values .Holland too it may be stated has a historic tolerance to all faiths , but it also remembers to act to maintain it;'s identity(Even if many have forgotten how it arose.)

ranger, Amsterdam, Netherlands

Muslims in this country have been attending their Mosques on time for decades without the call to prayer blaring out over loudspeakers. So why do they need to change it now?

Oliver, Bristol,

Religion like sex is best practiced behind closed doors.

Rex, Costa Mesa, California

Its encouraging to see a prominent Times journalist state that Britain is a Christian country. Again true that we are not all "born again" Christians. Nevertheless, it is true that we are shaped unconsciously by Christianity in our customs, and even thought processes, without realising it.

Encouraging though this editorial is, I cannot be but alarmed that in 50 years or so, Muslims will be majority in Britain. The demographic growth rate of Muslims from within, without even considering any further immigration, ensures this. And then all this will be of no avail. There will be mezzuen calls, as Britain will be an Islamic country. Britain will not be an exception to what has happened in every other country.

DaveP, Beverley, UK

As a HINDU ,I say please do not give into these Muslim demands, period..

Dan , london,

The last time I looked, no one was forcing people at gunpoint to immigrate to Britain. They purposely chose to come, and therefore it can be assumed that they knew they were moving to a Western, Christian nation. If that's a problem for them, planes leave every day from Gatwick and Heathrow for the Middle East. It's the immigrant's job to adapt to his/her new nation, not the other way around.

Tess, Shrewsbury, UK

Nick of London says 'The UK isn't majority Christian, it's agnostic or atheist at best. If we allow Church bells we should allow the call to prayer. So obviously, Church bells should also be banned.'
This illustrates exactly what is going wrong in the UK; a kind of logic which says if 'A' is true and 'B' is true then it follows that answer to the problem must be 'C'.
Its a logic that ignores complexity, ignores culture and tradition and reduces life to simple formulae.
Paradoxically it is the opposite 'logic' to that used by those advocating call to prayer; they see it as a right to live by thier tradition and culture.
The likes of Nick from London will ensure that this country becomes dominated by Islam. But I'm not sure if his simple logic goes that far, since it does not seem to include any awareness of the law of unintended consequences.

jane, oxford, uk

As usual religion is busy creating social tension and stress. Its one thing to tolerate the various religions its another thing to allow them to disrupt your life and bully others into agreeing with them. Good article, thank you.

Richard, Reading,

It would be interesting to know how many Muslims currently respond to the call to prayer. And Is this request to make the call to prayer louder and more pervasive actually a ploy to get more people to pray? And are the Muslims hoping that when we can all hear it we'll all join in?

S, Leeds,

I think this country is quite bent on letting Muslims rule. Give an inch...I'm Chinese but I believe in when in Rome do as Romans...Noise in the form of call to prayer in a Christian country is unpleasant, intrusive and abhorrent.

louis valtat, london,

Noise of all sorts should be banned period.

louis valtat, london,

Drown them out.!

Every driver of every car on the road in these affected areas should stand on their horn as the 'call to prayer' starts.

'Honk if you hear it'

James, Wellington,

If British people do not defend their culture and identity they will follow the Kosovo scenario - a dozen of decades and the majority will become a minority and finally disappear from the map. But who says nations must live forever?

NM, Warsaw,

and what of church bells, Daniel, and the people they offend, will you have done with them too? Circumcision is not a British practice either, will you have done with that? Will you give your sons the chance to express their opinion on the matter as you have expressed yours on the muezzin? Where is the line drawn in religious expression on others?

Brian, Brussels, Belgium

In this day and age, wouldn't the call to prayer be best delivered by mobile phone?

Chris, COVENTRY, UK

Thank you, thank you, Daniel Finkelstein for everything you have written in 'Go ahead with your loudspeakers 'etc My charming Egyptian hairdresser who has been living in England for the last 30 years married to his Irish catholic wife, can't bear to stay in his house in Cairo when he visits his family because the calls to prayer from the nearby mosque wake him up and in his words, 'drive him crazy.' Our liberal democracy has been built upon the best principles of Christianity. Moreover, when you live in another culture, you must have the courtesy to quietly fit in, not try to push alien ideas upon the country to which you have come. If you don't like it, you can go to another country whose ways suit you better.I have never complained about the church bell ringing on the half hour all through the night in Spain and I attend their religious processions in the village with respect, although I am not a catholic. There is so much good in British culture, may it last.

Ms R Hughes, London, UK

Can somebody explain me something? If these muslims who are all over Europe and Britain come here to try better life, why don't they go to those rich muslims countries like Kwait, Arab Emirates, Qatar and others which have the same religion and culture?

V.Martin, Barcelona, Spain

To Nick, London, UK. You said 'The UK isn't majority Christian, it's agnostic or atheist at best. '
This is incorrect. In the last national census 85% of the UK declared themselves Christian, albeit it nominally so in some cases. [ie: Christians who do not regularly attend church].

Philip Reeves, Northampton, England

Spot on! The UK as a whole is losing its identity because this concept of tolerance has been taken too far. I find it sad that the original british traditions, beliefs & faiths are stepping to one side & we as a nation are saying goodbye to our identity. Change is not necessarily a bad thing & I am sure we all enjoy a good chicken tikka masala but I wholeheartedly support the idea that schools should teach traditional history & religions concepts, that we should not become America & say happy holidays instead of happy christmas or easter. My sense is that from government down, the traditional anglican as you call it are told to be so tolerant that we are losing our identity. I am `anglican`, I live in the US & am married to an Indian - you know what it works great. We have 2 lots of celebrations but we also step in line with american culture outside of or home and yes at Xmas its Happy Holidays all the way! last time I checked no other country bends over backwards to change for me

Kate V, New York, USA

Time to draw a line in the sand. This is England and must remain so!

Richard, Kidderminster, Worcestershire

I do NOT wish to be forced to listen to someone announce that there is no God but God and that Muhammad is his Prophet - period.

J Koter, Oxford, United Kingdom

there are plenty of churches in moslem countries. but, even if this were not so, why would you want to blame british moslems for the intolerance of saudis?

too much noise, too much aggression... these should be frowned upon whatever the source. the call to prayer is actually quite relaxing on a hazy summer night in the gulf. maybe not so much on a miserable night in the midlands, eh? but surely this is less important that making moslems obey all the other laws of the land, the same as everyone else.

jem, london, uk

"Go to Halifax in West Yorkshire where they have the call to prayer blaring out several times daily throughout Ramadan. Not so nice if you live within a mile or so of the Mosque and work nights like I used to. Just how tolerant do I need to be??

Jim, Halifax, "

I can vouch for that. In West Central Halifax (where I used to live very close to and walk through each day), the calls to prayer would be loud and dominate the air.
While I don't mind people celebrating their religions, it becomes a different matter when those celebrations are forced onto the host nation every single day. Especially when it involves noise pollution in a foreign language, which to be honest, once the novelty has worn off, becomes rather irritating!

Jamie, Halifax, West Yorkshire

It never ends these days. For me, the muezzin is a device used in films to let me know what kind of a film I am about to watch, where it takes place, etc. You can just hear their - the famous Muslim minority - arguments:

"If you Christians can have your 'ring-a-ding-ding' why can't we have our tinny speakers? Okay then if we can't have our speakers, can you please take down your bells? No? And you call Britain a democracy? >spit< "

I'm not a communist or anything, but at this point, I would prefer it if the government announced target dates for complete independence from religion over, say... complete energy independence.

billy, dublin,

Article of the day IMO. You tread a tight rope with out loosing balance once.

Surely it would be more sociable to get one of those alarm clocks with a speaker that replays a specified pre-recorded message in your home set to 5x or 3x a day, rather than - in no uncertain terms - stamp your authority on the whole town.

Glen Oglethorpe, Workington, Cumbria, UK

There would seem to be a compromise here. If loudspeakers aren't allowed at a given mosque, let them use live Muezzins with big mouths. Build a high-density, pedestrian scale development next to the mosque where muslims who can't read clocks can live and/or work as they choose.

Michael, Pueblo, Colorado, US

Calling it an aggressive or hostile act is a bit much. They're asking for only 3 of the 5 daily prayers, so there isn't going to be early-morning or late-night noise. They've asked permission perfectly politely - they've also suggested at the outset that if 3 times a day is not acceptable maybe once a week at Friday lunchtime. There's no suggestion that they will go ahead or offer resistance if the request is refused. I can't see what the fuss is.

James, Istanbul,

Allowing the call to prayer to be bleated out 5 times a day across our country, is just another step further towards living in a state dominated by muslims and islam; and away from our own English heritage and culture. What kind of heritage are we leaving our children?

Craig, London,

m wilson, bidache france:

Of course we could do the traditional British thing and take the mick out of it, but we would soon be collared by a copper, for committing a so-called hate crime. The police have been heavily indoctrinated with political correctness, particularly with the idea that muslims are more delicate than others, and have to be treated with special sensitivity.

Trofim, Birmingham, UK

I don't think the issue is tolerance. It's noise. Using loudspeakers to call to prayer affects an entire neighbourhood and is simply unecessary. I don't know of any mosques in the US that have loudspeakers, and none seems to suffer in attendance. Even churches have to observe noise regulations. The great Washington Cathedral, part of the Anglican community, has a manificent carillon and expert change ringers, but the times at which bells can be rung are strictly limited -- and the bell tower has baffles on three sides to reduce noise in the adjacent residential area. The cathedral is a success nonetheless.

W. Holmes, Washington, DC USA

Making a call to the prayers five times a day is necessary but it is not necessary to broadcast the call over the loudspeakers. It is not a religious requirement.

B IQBAL, Smyrna, Tennessee, USA

As a student, I lived in East Avenue, Oxford (the next street to the Cowley Mosque), and observed the overriding Islamicism of the area. For example, in winter, decorations went up for Eid, not Christmas. Also, (speaking as a non-Muslim), I was frequently catcalled by large groups of Muslim men, while walking down the Cowley Road - despite the fact that their wives and daughters went around swaddled in scarves.

Does this not illustrate a salient point? That Britain has extended refuge, rights and citizenship upon various minority groups, and yet this is treated by many of them with contempt and hypocrisy! Britain is a country with a proud history, and, whether you are religious or not, our laws and constitution are based on Christian tenets.

If you take the protection of a country, you subsume your practices as and when they clash with the traditions and preferences of your host country - unless you would prefer to return to the oppressive, impoverished nations whence you came?

The Graduate, London, UK

As usual I am dissapointed at the response on this page.

Unfortunately text messages would not suffice in place of the call to prayer, as it is a fundemental part of the prayer.

The first Muslim to announce the call to prayer was Bilial (one of the first converts to Islam). This was at a time when Prophet Muhammad (may peace be upon him) and the early converts had left Mecca, their home town, because of the continued persecution they faced because of their faith in the one God and because they oppossed the polythestic practices of the ruling elite.

Once reaching the freedom and safety of Madina the call to prayer was announced openly.

This is a symbol of our freedom and rights as Muslims.

I am British, I used to visit a church before becoming Muslim, this is my country and as a citizen I think my views should count too.

I just don't see how a 60 second call to prayer thrice daily would offend anyone, its only going to be during daylight hours.

Rebecca Foote , Leicester, UK

In total agreement with this article. Cowley is a lovely, multicultural place and I intend to live there next year. However, if there is a call to prayer going out on a loudspeaker multiple times a day then it will be disruptive. And a disruptive imposition upon people's peace is never going to promote tolerance - just look at all the fights between neighbours over speaker systems.
This is nothing to do with anti-Muslim or racist behaviour, and everything to do with preserving peace and allowing people to live in their own way without upsetting one another.

Meg, Pembs,

People would be wrong to think, as 'Martin, Newmarket' remarks, that we are merely talking about Oxford here. How long do you think it will be before other mosques around the country to put in similar demands? Oxford would be held up as 'modern example' of Britons' tolerance.

On this one case, our whole right not to be blared at in Arabic upto 5 times a day, rests. If Oxford allows a precedent then the Muslim call to prayer will be become the norm throughout Britain.

Thank Allah Bucharest is 3000 miles away.

Edwin, Bucharest,

If my neighbours blasted noise from speakers on top of their houses three times a day, my local authority would quite rightly confiscate their equipment. If a Muslim wants to be reminded to pray, there is a range of software they can load on their mobile phones to remind them. Meanwhile, let me sleep.

William, London,

An excellent and very balanced article. We English appear to be embarrassed by our past and Heritage. Ten years ago Muslims were living here without all this fuss. Why do they want to confront the majority, because there will come a breaking point which will incvolve other faiths and cultures who cause no trouble at all?
Daniel Finklestein is correct when he says no-one has to stay here. Nothing infuriates me more than when I hear an immigrant denigrating Great Britain, whilst accepting all the benefits of the welfare state and the NHS. They are welcome, but please learn to tolerate us and don't try to push the boundaries every week.
If I want to hear the Muezzin in amplified form I will go to a Muslim Country. I don't want it in England.
We are Christian in culture likeit, lump it or leave, the choice is yours because it is a free Country.
(Why don't they return home? Because life is too tough and they would have no freedoms)

Earl Lavender, Cirencester, England

This is like intimidating people, whoever are concerned about prayers will come without calling then why call, it's like eating when one feel hungry

bhasker, London, UK

Peter from Brussels... point noted about no churches and ban on import of bibles in Saudi Arabia. But please enlighten me, has SA ever claimed to be a liberal, free and democratic country tolerant of other religions and cultures ?

Its comparing apples with oranges....

A. Khan, London,

I have to add, this kind of disrespect and clearly hostile attempt at introducing the Islamic religion into Britain, will undoubtedly have massively negative repercussions to all those of an ethnic background Muslim or not.

I myself am a English born Sikh man and after the London bombings experienced an increase in racist abuse from ignorant members of the public. For those that are racist they need only a reason such as this to expand their propaganda, and attack anyone who isn't a white English christian.

Muslim people, you need to learn that tolerance and respect is what should be fundamental to any religion? Clearly is this not taught in Mosque? It certainly doesn't seem that way to me.

Mr Bansal, Birmingham, England

If you want to see where Britain is headed read "While Europe Slept", it is not a pretty picture.

Douglas Ward, Grover Beach,, USA, CALIFORNIA

Robert Guttman (NY) - You make some excellent points!
Btw, I believe in Cairo (city of a 1000 mosques) that the residents/worshippers have complained about the noise levels as the calls for prayer were amplified to such an extent that nobody was able to sleep!
Therefore, I think this application should be resisted based purely on the intrusion to the wider public that would result from the increased noise.

Nick
Gloucester

Nick, Gloucester, England

In Saudi Arabia you can't hear church bells... because churches are not allowed, and the import of bibles is prohibited... Perhaps an idea?

Peter, Brussels,

As a Muslim born & raised in the UK, I can understand why British people would be against the sound intrusion of the call to prayer, that is a fair comment, and there needs to be more consideration.

It is sad that this writer chooses to constantly criticise Islam which seems to popular in this publication. I'm a moderate Muslim but find this constant bashing unfair. Muslims in UK are portrayed as having very strict rules etc which goes against the common way of life in the UK. Not always true!

Why doesnt Daniel write about the Labour friends of Israel whose sole aim is to "promote a strong bilateral relationship between Britain and Israel, We work with the Government, Parliamentarians, advisers, and activists throughout the Labour movement!!"

Why do British people tolerate this, Muslims don't go to the upper echelons of British power to influence them for our own interests! people wake up!

If you still think Muslims are strict, search for 'eruv' in Wikipedia, now who is extreme?

Anwar, London, UK

Absolutely agree with you Daniel - how refreshing to see in print what I have been saying for some time. I'm happy to tolerate all religious views (as long as they don't advocate violence) but we are a Christian nation and anyone who wants to live here should respect that, even if they don't agree with Christianity. Thank you

Eleanor, Peterborough, UK

Surely in this day and age a text messaging service could be used? If one electronic solution is acceptable (i.e amplified loudspeakers) surely this would be too.

For me it's no different than the bells ringing on a church anyway...

George W, Halifax, UK

Here in India too it is a serious problem. The use of loudspeakers by religious groups in India is common and the noise is intolerable. (Christians are no exception and active missionary supported groups such as the various baptists and pentecostals can be very noisy indeed)Governments have no courage to ban or even control the level of noise. There is neither a proven need or a religious sanction (or a tradition) to justify it. When will we become civilized and think of others?

Acharya, bangalore, India

Every country has the right to preserve it's origin culture. I have many friends that are afro carribean, muslim, sikh etc. I respect their cultures; even if I do not agree with them.

The problem is not that muslims do not like British people celebrating Christmas and Easter, it is really the far left fundermentalists who do not see that under an islamic state, women would not be equal to men. I spent many a year at university in England in lectures run by females arguing how white men and their Chirstian religion had torn the world to pieces. I would have expected such so called educated people to look at history and see that all races and religions and beliefs, whether god fearing or not have fought through the centuries.

It sometimes seems to me that there are a group of very selfish, disgruntled left wing women who believe that killing the Christian (what they see as white male dominated) belief will be a payback for past actions.

George Scicluna, Geraldton, Australia

Unless Uk politicians and citizens wake up in 50 years you will have parts of uk demanding independence exactly like in kosovo.

Basil, Cambridge,

If permission for the call to prayer were refused might this not send a subtle message that the rights of others are to be respected in Britain. An awareness that forced marriage, or the seemingly casual murder of women, or, the hostile messages given at Friday prayers are some examples among other current practices that are not acceptable in British society .
The effort to make people welcome by repressing your own customs and being overly accommodating does not seem to be working out well.
Lizbeth, Orillia

L. Peters, Orillia,

Perhaps there is a technological solution to this conundrum; surely it is not beyond the wit of man. Mobile phones might be used to announce prayer time via a discreet text message or car/DAB radios to tune into a call to prayer version of traffic updates.

Ben, London,

Tin from Arizona do you mean just as the Americans do now!

I find it amazing being lectured about colonial interference by a Yank! At least we managed to leave behind fully functioning countries and not the basket cases America now leaves in it's wake.

On topic though we are experiencing similar issues here in Oz, the difference seems to be that our local communities are standing up to the demands using precisely Daniel's argument that religious practice should not impinge on others.

Tom, Sydney (formerly London),

How can we expect minorities to respect the British way of life when the PC brigade are trying their best to dismantle it. They constantly undermine British traditions like Christmas and Easter, education curriculums and even childrens nursery rhymes. The minorities know that all they have to do is complain racism and a dozen specialist lawyers will pop out the woodwork to take up their case.

George, Glasgow, UK

Totally agree with all parties, I think the Anglican and Christian majority should be respected, in which case whilst I also agree religious respect should be shown as we are a tolerant nationI think the 'call to pray' is taking a step to far in a traditionally Christian country.
Good point made by the article, the unfortunate thing is that this isn't a true democracy (deMOCKracy) in which case the majority are ignored and those making the key decisions are dismissive and are in it for their own interests and political correctness.

Mathew Wilson, Nottingham / Bedford, England

I can only imagine the uproar if something like this were published here in America.

Dan, Washington, DC,

Agree wholeheartedly. What happens if everybody starts blaring on loudspeakers! A person or community should follow their practices, as long as these do not cause trouble to somebody else.
This should not be allowed!

Rajani Sohoni, Gloucester, UK

Chip chip chip chip chip way at our religion, our English culture our tolerance for others and the law of the English courts until there is nothing left of the English way of life.
I applaud the Jewish communities in England for their desire not to impose (for the most part) their religion and way of life on the majority. Those other religions and cultures that overtly strive to impose themselves on the majority I condemn.

gregg palmer, london,

Aye Daniel, and up in Scotland they should be made to learn the bagpipes. To the sound of which I was married in Lyon.

Pierre Bernardi, Paris, France

If the practice of Islam can modernise to loud speakers in the minarets, why not email and text reminders to mobile phones? Most people have them and a system to broadcast to the faithful subscribers is cheap and easy to implement - it takes little more than a computer, and internet link and a pice of readily-available software - total cost probably about the same as the loud speaker system and far less noisy.
Integration means accomodating your neighbours without inconveniencing them. That applies to Islam as well as the rest of us.

KR, Stockport,

Well Mr Tin, Compared to what your lot have done in Korea ,Vietnam ,Chile ,Iraq and elsewhere in the last 60 years I din't think you should throw stones.The Brits were benevolent in comparison.America no longer has any right to the moral high ground.
At least we left behind democratic institutions and best of all we taught them to play cricket!!

Lawrence Taylor, Toyonaka, Osaka Japan

A very nice article dealing with a real issue, thank you. Tolerance is the most wonderful cultural inheritence and the most difficult to defend. Hopefully we can.

Benjamin , Gloucester,

The UK isn't majority Christian, it's agnostic or atheist at best. If we allow Church bells we should allow the call to prayer. So obviously, Church bells should also be banned.

Nick, London, UK

Go to Halifax in West Yorkshire where they have the call to prayer blaring out several times daily throughout Ramadan. Not so nice if you live within a mile or so of the Mosque and work nights like I used to. Just how tolerant do I need to be??

Jim, Halifax,

Dave Griffen
Re the eruv in North London, how do wires strung between telegraph poles 'impose minority culture on the whole public'? Fundamentally different from a megaphone in Arabic across your local town 3 times a day I would think

Fronthwheel Geordie, London, UK

I fully agree that minorities should be both allowed to celebrate their faith and culture yet not impose it on other Brits in their public space. Yet you make no mention of the Jewish boundary or 'eruv' in parts of North London that also impose minority culture on the whole of the public.

Dave Griffen, Islington,

Since when did Allah demand that electronic amplifiers and loudspeakers be used? They're not mentioned in the Koran. Of-course the Mosques know that. What it is really about is stamping Islam in big letters on every inch of Great Britain. I am surprised such applications are even considered.

B Redfern, Krksko, Slovenia

Tolerance is a sign of strengh- we should be continue to be tolerant and strong enough to resist this this imposition which this 'call tp prayers' is.
Whilst a call to prayer for the few it might be it will also be an irritating noise to the majority.

mike cassidy, oxford, oxford

The call to prayer is part of the war of attrition from a hostile religion and we must not cede.

DAvid Thijm, Stourbridge, UK

Treat in the traditional British way - take the piss out of it.
Then they will go bananas.

m wilson, bidache, france

A lot of comments and indeed the article spoke about the manner with which the British are tolerant to outsiders and never impose or impinge either their faith or their beliefs. Well - look back half a century or earlier - you mauraded every walk of life, every sphere, all your colonies - be it America, Africa or India, and spread christianity while subdueing local religion. Well - times change and memories are short lived.

Tin, Tucson, Arizona

Once a week like everyone else.

Jill, Tonbridge, UK

It is very refreshing to find someone who isn't Christian who feels that the Britsih should be allowed to be British and Christian and that our culture should be respected. I personally feel the building of mosques in Britain is outrageous, how long would someone trying to build a Church in a Muslim country last? One, two hours?

There should be a respect for other countries and cultures (and I am the first to admit that Britain as a nation are ignorant to other languages especially) but in Britain things should be British, although I'm not sure people know what that is anymore.

Sarah, Chester,

Thank you, Daniel, well said. But how can minorities be expected to respect Christian culture when New Labour fails to do so, and is often actively hostile towards Christian belief?

RB, Aberdeen., Scotland

I think that Britain has, on the whole, had a successful experience with other religions precisely because newcomers have never been told that, because of who they are, or their religion, they cannot do certain things that the rest of us can. We all have equal rights and freedoms. DF's proposal would ban the call to prayer on the basis that it is a call to *Muslim* prayer. It singles out one faith for differential treatment, and so is not in keeping with the tradition of toleration we have had to date. So I think he is wrong.

That does not mean I think that the call to prayer should necessarily go ahead. There are ways of objecting to it that are still neutral. The community should be allowed to decide whether they want this, based on whether it would change the character of the neighbourhood, just as they should be able to do with shopping centres and, indeed, new Christian churches.

JW, London,

As a citizen of India where tho Hinduism is the majority religion there are sizeable numbers in other religions, I found the article pertinent even to India. I am a Hindu.

Should Hinduism as the majority religion in India be the first among equals?

I think that the more religions keep away from the public space the better.

Every religion has the capacity to be noisy and intrusive. Christianity as practiced in the Middle East also has processions, loudspeakers, the works.

Consciously or not these are a way of marking territory. We may not pee on trees. Instead we use loudspeakers.

Technology enables us to be less intrusive *if we want to*. FM radios, Podcasts. But given the choice, people will, I think, prefer the noisier option.

Which is why enabling the majority religion to be more demonstrative as a right is not one I'd recommend. Right can become easily become imposition can become religious terrorism.

Keep religion off the streets and off the audible air.

bevivek, Pune, India

It is not only a calculated, aggressive and hostile act - it is also designed to set a precedent. Once it has been allowed in East Oxford it will be very difficult to refuse it anywhere else.

Martin, Newmarket, Suffolk

They all have cell phones which can be programmed to vibrate at prayer times bothering no-one else. There are dozens of ways in which they could be reminded that it is time to pray. That is not the point we should be concerned about. There is a self-confessed systematic and relentless drive to convert the West by any means possible to Islam so why are we so passive and polite. The satisfaction of one demand will only lead to more audacious demands until their mission is complete whereupon we will all be peering out of our burkas in utter bewilderment.

Pensky, twickenham, UK

Enough is enough. Allowing that racket 3 times a day would just be taking the P!
It's time to stand up for yourself, Britain.
Run away immigration and the polititians' fear of making decisions which could in any way be seen to be "anti Muslim" is eroding Britain's
national security, identity and pride. I was all for the 'live and live' attitude of London 15 yrs ago, but what's going on today is a different story. Stop bending over backwards to accomodate others & refocus on looking after your own indegenuous Christian majority.

h, st louis (previously London), USA

Perhaps we should show more respect for ourselves and our heritage and culture. . The nihilist and cinical way of life especially of British new generations, doesn't help to protect either of them.
Liz London

liz , london, uk

Britain is welcoming to minorities...and hostile to the British!

Garth Strong, San Diego, USA

Those "problems" have an easy solution. Each time a request for a muslim artifact [like a mosque in Manchester] is offered; just say: OK then we get a protestant/catholic/orelse church in your hometown.
Every one will then notice how that request will make go away the "problem" quickly.

WILLIAM, AVONDALE, USA, Arizona

Daniel,I would love to here your criticism of "Friends of Israel",and what it means for our political freedom.
Instead of stirring up resentment against the muslim community,I would like you to explain why Labour friends of Israel,or Conservative friends of Israel,isn't a gross abuse of the country that took your grandparents in.

Alex, blackpool, England

“We try and leave others in peace and expect to be left in peace ourselves.”

It is great that this practice of calling for prayer has to start from East Oxford. It will start with three times loud speaker calling for prayers and then it will increase to five.

As the time goes, call for prayer becomes shriller! In the beginning it will be only disturbing, but later it will become a nuisance. Even hospital neighborhoods, office complexes, shopping malls etc. will not be spared!

You are just witnessing the beginning and you cannot imagine where it will end! Here they go: British tolerance for others, other religions, liberal values, multi-culturalism and British values into the nearest garbage dump!

Britain has imported problems with liberal immigration of liabilities without much education, from nations such as Pakistan, Bangladesh and more!

Muslims from these nations are highly obsessed with Islamic religion and they take their baggage with them wherever they go!

Krishna R. Kumar, Udupi, India

I live near a volunteer ambulance station and every so often, once every other week or so the klaxon goes off and my dog howls and the whole family thinks it's funny and we might even howl with him.

But it would be to use a British euphemism, bloody hell if I had to hear that dam thing 3 times a day. We are not talking about church bells chiming melodies on the hour, used to be a great way to tell time. I would think that it would at least be disturbing to the mostly Christian / Judeo populace. Maybe the new comers need to learn to tolerate our not wanting to listen to what is tantamount to a klaxon.

Paul Bahre, Granby, CT USA

There is something beautiful in the call to prayer. It is an act of witness in a secular age. Let it be done, but as it has been for centuries, by the muezzin in the minaret. No loudspeakers. Goodness, churches will want them next.

James, Hong Kong, China

Bob Travels, good one, and when another mosque is nearby they'll try and outdo each other, I'm sure you heard that too.

As regards the question as a whole, altho' not very religious I tend to side with those who say we'll allow speakers on mosques when church bells are heard in, say, Saudi Arabia .

Stan(expat), US, USA

If you are a christian, you are not allowed to practice your faith freely in many Islamic countries. It is actually illegal in many of them to build churches, and you are routinely discriminated against and often harrassed or sometimes worse by the state and its institutions

Paul, London,

I also had to put up with the islamic wailing for two years. Once he is allowed three times/day, then he will want six times/day, starting at 05:00 in the morning.

We are not living in an islamic state and we should not have to put up with demented arabic screaming in the UK.

If he wants to issue a call to prayer, then he should send SMS messages.

Bob Travels, Stevenage,

Many of my ancestors were Jews, most converted centuries ago,
some were sephardic refugees from Portugal to England to Holland to Hamburg, and other routes. Daniel here exhibits magnanimity as behooves one whose parents opted to raise him in a magnanimous country. Now that I live in USA, my wish would be some Americans would do as Daniel does and explain the US as well is a Christian nation, considering the principles upheld by its founders. Just like in England, we "Immigrants and [our] children in this country receive a fantastic deal." And, "In return I think it reasonable for us to show respect for the majority religion and for the (un-)established religious institutions."

Hermann Burchard, Stillwater , Oklahoma

The most frustrating aspect of this story is that we insist on seeing it as largely a technical problem.
It is nothing of the sort. It is a calculated, aggressive and hostile act which is solely designed to provoke and test our will to resist.

B Wood, Oxford,

I find it interesting that so many from the Islamic world come to the west because of its tolerance bur are often times very intolerant themselves. Toperance does however have its limits. Being called to prayer three times a day via loudspeakers
exceeds the bounds of that tolerance. Besides most people wear wrist watches and know what time it is. If that call to prayer is a beloved sound that they long for they should go back from whence they came.

Bruce Northwood, Washington, D.C. , USA

Good points. Well put. But if you don't mind, I'll wait till they come for me. It's the British way, these days.

Richard Jenkins, London, England

Give them an FM channel to broadcast their calls. The faithful can no doubt get it on small portable devices. If amplified loudspeakers are an acceptable substitute for the human voice then it must be OK over the radio.

Charles, Charlottesville, USA

Hear, hear!

I grew up at a time when respect was part of everyday life. Most of my fellow pupils went to Sunday School and, in my opinion, were a lot better for it. Our idea of indiscipline at school occurred once a year - on April Fool's day - when we played what would now be considered puerile jokes on one another. No-one's religion impinged on any other. We didn't know much about the BNP, although I suppose they were around but of little consequence. We went about our own religious business quietly and without encroaching on the lives of others.

It is to be hoped that Moslems can do the same in a Christian country.

leila, manchester, uk

It is bad enough having to request rooms on the side of the hotel facing away from the mosque in countries like Indonesia and Malaysia, lest one is blasted out of bed at 6am. I sincerely hope the practice will not be permitted in Britain - I suppose I grew up with church bells, and if their use has to be reviewed, in the interest of equality, so be it.

I would suggest that loudspeakers and church bells are at any rate a rather archaic way of assembling the faithful, predating building insulation and double glazing. Phone text messaging or voicemail broadcast would be a more effective and less invasive way of broadcasting the call to prayer, more befitting the modern Muslim and Christian.

Menno Aartsen, Fredericksburg, VA, USA

Freedom of religion also means freedom FROM religion. People have the right to practice whatever religion they choose. However, it does not follow that they have the right to INFLICT their religion upon others.

I have spent a good deal of time in various Middle Eastern countries, and consequently am familiar with the Moslem call to prayer. In those countries one has no choice but to put up with it. To them it's religion. To myself (and probably most other infidels as well) it sounds as though the wails of a person undergoing torture were being broadcast over loudspeakers.

In this day and age there is no longer any practical reason why it should be necessary to call the faithful to prayer in that way, and inflicting that unpleasantness upon the rest of society will only cause antagonism against Moslems.

Robert Guttman, New York, USA