We voted to join with Europe and we have a vote in the European elections. We did not vote to become the fifty first state or to be treated like second class americans. We are not ruled from Brussles we are ruled from Washington. We go to war when America tells us, not Europe.
Our right wing press and politicians adopt the poodle position in our dealings with the U.S, while while furiously condemning anything to do with the E.U. Real life and death decisions are taken in Washington on our behalf and without our consent.

Joe reilly, Spalding, England

Why the fuss?

The Conservative Party has always told its activists and implied to the electorate that the would resist changes in our status in the EU which was in conflict with their actions in Government and their true beliefs.

The Conservative Party is still wedded to Ever Closer Union and will never resist it however much its leaders may squirm before the tribal but often Eurosceptic membership.

Britain's independent and democratic future will not be achieved from any of the current Westminster Parties.

Andrew Smith, Epping, UK

QUOTE " But this, of course, it cannot do without risking leaving the EU altogether, which the British people will almost certainly not want."
Sorry, haven't you been reading the Polls recently? Leaving the EU with it's corruption and interference in our Laws, and the enforced immigration of people we can't afford to support and can't deport, is precisely what the majority DO want. We are the losers in the EU. We pay through the nose so the Spanish can have new roads, and the Spanish and French trawlermen can plunder our traditional fishing grounds and sell the catch to Russian Factory ships for fertilizer to avoid the fishing quotas.
The Government is prepared to allow much needed farmland to be lost to the sea. I bet Holland gets help to pay for sea defences, so why isn't the EU coughing up the money to protect our coastline? Silly me, we are there to pay out, not get anything back.

Beryl, WINDSOR, England

A referendum would turn into a vote against the EU. As the majority of people get their thoughts from the Tabloids which are mostly anti EU. the voters would vote against as a way of venting their perceived (sometimes correctly) frustrations about the EU in general.
Almost noone can understand the complex wording of the Treaty anyway so how can they vote on it?
A referendum does not come cheap it would cost a lot and by and large be a waste of money.
On ething I never understand about the EU is why the UK has to be different to all the other countries and want so many exclusions

billcarr, turku, finland

There are offering one more than the Labour Party at the moment and that is all that matters.

Sally C , York, Yorks.

EU is just another welfare hose. UK banks are having people line up outside them. Hello. You can't afford welfare dependencies and you have to tell them to go find someone else.

Old Atlantic, Atlantic City, NJ

David,

"the voters are not that bothered by the referendum issue itself".

Perhaps we have different perpectives on what is important to 'the voters'. From where I stand - reading columns and their attendant comments and, yes, even reading The Telegraph - 'the voters' are furious at being denied their say on the current state of the EU.

Whether 'the voters' choose to affirm the Lisbon Treaty or to deny affirmation (and, by extension, voice their lack of enthusiasm for the EU as a whole) is irrelevant. What is relevant is the Labour Party's weaseling out of a promise made in their manifesto and how 'the voters' feel about that.

In this day and age there is simply no justification for the "elect me and I'll do what I damned-well please for the next five years" model of parliamentary democracy. Britain is sick and tired of parliamentary arrogance and must soon move to a much more consultative process.

John Blackley, Austin, TX, USA

The point about a referendum on the constitution/treaty is really very simple and nothing to do with party loyalty: we were told categorically that we would havea vote on it and now apparently we won't. So, it's about misleading the electorate, about treating them with contempt - again.

anne, bournemouth,

Yes we do know what the Tories, and most of the public does not like, transferring more and more power to an unelected bureaucracy, simple Dave ! The fact that this has been done before, that Tories denied referenda before, etc etc is not relevant, they were mistaken and now admit it. OK?
Good for Hague suggesting that Parliament's ratification of the new treaty (no argument now, we note that this is the old constitution redressed) will be tainted. This is because Labour MPs are sitting there in the Commons on the basis of a promise they are now breaking. There, that's not so hard to understand, especially when the eu-fundamentalist spectacles are removed?

Tim, Abingdon, UK

The Tories are all over the place on European Policy.Unfortunately Cameron shows no leadership on this issue and hides away.Cameron should get some "Bottle" and define some policies on Europe instead of trying to cofuse the public by spin.

Bill Rees, Truro, Cornwall

The only future for the UK is the EU. Populist sentiment, bathing in the mythology of past glories, is unable to comprehend that so for any opposition party (not needing to make decisions) opposition to all things EU is an easy vote-getter. Although, I think the electorate are more concerned with the NHS than the EU. Once in government logic takes over and we move further down the EU path.
The key to a decent, successful society is not the balliot box, open to corruption from the dubious marketing techniques employed in politics, but pluralism. Those who know something on the subject, with the intellect to comprehend that knowledge and the motivation to pursue the logic of it are the key to such a society.
It is obvious that every government since the Heath government, including the Tory's pin up - Margaret Thatcher, has moved towards ever closer union. As the lady might have said herself - There Is No Alternative.

Eddie Reader, birmingham, england

"The more the Tory leadership slags off the treaty... the greater will be the activist demand that it promises to rescind ratification if it wins the election. But this, of course, it cannot do without risking leaving the EU altogether"

Oh dear, oh dear, the usual Euro fanatic stock response - accept what we say or leave the EU. What utter rubbish. 1) France and Holland weren't forced to leave the EU after they rejected the original treaty - so why would we be? 2) We have a very strong hand in our relations with the EU - we run a massive trade deficit with the EU and they are not about to kick us out and risk losing favourable access to our economy (which have been the only EU one expanding for the last 5 years or so) and if the EU wants a military capability only the UK armed forces can provide it.

And what a stunning advert for EU democracy - if we choose a government that will rescind the treaty, it can't or we have to leave the EU. Makes you proud to be in the EU, does it?

logicalcaptain, Ivybridge,

I suspect Mr. Aaronovitch may well prove to be correct - the Tories have been shown to be just as duplicitous and untrustworthy as NuLabour. All they all appear to care about is power and the lies they need to tell to achieve it are considered on the whole inconsequential.

But anyone 'supporting the Lisbon treaty' (likeMr. A) is clearly totally sold on the whole EU project. To endorse it because it makes the EU more "effective" is begging the question: who in Britain WANTS the particular effects it produces? Poll after poll has demonstrated an indisputable British antipathy to these "effects".

The bottom line is a political elite supported by a small minority of voters continue to ride roughshod over the democratic will of most of the people. AGAIN! This is democracy in Britain today.

alex, washington, usa

Tory splits, Gordon is a genius Yada yada yada.etc. The problem with you David and polly and tim and the rest of the bunch is that it is such an anathema to even think about not being full members of the EU that for some strange reason you think other people are remotely concerned. Brown will sell Britain down the river with the help of the Lib Dems. If Cameron then wins the election he should go to Brussels and demand that he gets all of a hitlist of desires e.g. fisheries policyreform , CAP reform, rebate, end of ratchet clause, reinstatement of vetos etc. Inevitably Brussels will decline then a referrendum needs to be held on whether Britain becomes an associate member (I am sure there will be lots of wailing from your direction, David). We will see at that time what is important to the British people (scare stories about jobs - which have largely gone to migrants anyway - or the flexibility to make our own way in the 21st century.)

steph, brighton,