Debo was always my mother's second favourite Mitford sister. She felt that
Deborah was a good sort - a kind of People's Aristocrat, probably saved for
the nation and part owned by the National Trust. And she would have approved
of the Dowager Duchess of Devonshire's column in the latest issue of the
otherwise despised Spectator magazine, lamenting the closure of her local
post office. Mum also liked Ken Livingstone and Ken, too, wants to keep post
offices open.
Who doesn't, except - perversely - whichever government is in power at the
time, and the Post Office itself? To try to search for argument about the
pros and cons of branch closures is to discover the most one-sided debate in
Britain. There are hundreds and hundreds of websites detailing campaigns to
stop local closures. The Countryside Alliance, the Lib Dems, the Scots and
Welsh Nats, local newspapers, most Tories, most Trots and a score or more
Labour MPs, all agitating to prevent their local office closing.
Few express themselves so elegantly and so revealingly as Deborah Devonshire,
whose rural office and shop in Edensor, on the Chatsworth Estate, sold its
last stamp last week. Her article fused feeling with argument and regret
with anger. “No more the postmaster with one elbow on the counter,” she
wrote, while also invoking the less literary image of having to use the car
to shop at the Bakewell supermarket, and how awkward that would be for
elderly non-drivers.
This is a recognisable theme: old folks unable to use services because they
are too far away. More surprising was the duchess's revelation that the
ancient cottage played the role of a social club where village people met to
chat, exchange gardening tips and learn of the distant exploits of
ex-villagers. “We all knew each other... Now our meeting place is dark and
dead.” Though in fact it isn't, because the tearoom part of the Edensor
business has survived, but - for some reason or other - the Duchess tells us
that the local elderly prefer tea in their own houses. Fair enough.
Familiar too is the placing of the blame. “The Government doesn't care,” wrote
Her Grace, and so “a vital support, impossible to value in money but
sticking out a mile to those of us who live in villages, has gone.” That
phrase “impossible to value in money” is, of course, a euphemism. What is
really meant by it is that the activity in question loses perfectly
measurable and usually huge amounts of dosh, but that it should nevertheless
be subsidised because of its broader utility. And these sentiments, varied
slightly according to location and author, are practically universal. A
resource, possessing various almost metaphysical characteristics, is being
destroyed by a mentality that is concerned only with profit. In rural areas
the losers will be the elderly, in urban ones they will be the inner-city
poor.
The irony is that the Government seems to agree with its own most vociferous
critics. If Post Offices were run as a straightforward commercial operation
like, say, Tesco, then only about 4,000 of the existing 14,000 or so offices
would survive. The Post Office itself has calculated that the level of
oversupply of facilities in the rural areas runs at between 65 per cent and
80 per cent, with only one tenth of opening hours in rural single-position
branches being occupied by customer transactions. Yet the current closure
plans still envisage 12,000 offices surviving, which will receive a subsidy
(or “investment”) of £1.7 billion of taxpayer's money between last year and
2011. This, together with the closure programme, is being done to try to
contain a loss that has been running at £4 million a week. And we have no
real idea whether it will work.
So, in essence the Government is already letting parts of the post office
system run as though they were social services; the campaigners are merely
arguing that the handouts should be even greater. In the capital Ken
Livingstone is promising to subsidise each of the 171 threatened London
offices, if it becomes necessary. No one, absolutely no one, from one end of
the spectrum to the other, seems to have the courage to call this spending
into question. There is no counter-pressure on the Government whatsoever.
Yet at the heart of the post office problem is one simple fact. However much
we may claim to “want” there to be post offices, we are increasingly
unlikely to use them. They are an antique habit - a virtue, almost - which
we are losing. I scarcely visit our local post office at all, and it doesn't
take much to winkle out of “I use it all the time” protesters that, in fact,
they vastly exaggerate their own attendance.
I am not saying that there aren't victims of change, people who, for reasons
both voluntary and necessary, don't have bank accounts, don't shop at
supermarkets and can't use the internet to make transactions or to fill in
forms. It's always been true. Did you know that petrol stations have been
closing at the rate of 600 per year? Are they not often a social hub?
Deborah Devonshire informed her readers that there had been a post office at
Edensor since 1886. But I couldn't resist discovering that the village's one
pub had closed 16 years earlier, in 1870.
In the best old days, the 1900s, the duke and his house guests required a
runner - a bell-boy - to take telegrams between the great house and the
Edensor telegraph office. “It's all gone,” wrote the duchess, “There is no
bell-boy and no Post Office. Now, that horrible form of communication,
e-mail, rules... Bang go human relationships.” Is that what this is really
about? Rural people don't use village shops, don't send their children to
village schools and yet refuse to face up to their own responsibility for
the inevitable closures, blaming the politicians. In the cities we do the
same.
We got into our cars, shunned the trains, but loaded the opprobrium for own
choices on the head of the infamous Dr Beeching. It was him, not us. Four
million fewer of us use post offices this year compared with three years
ago, but when it comes to the question “who killed the postmaster?” we all
point at someone else.
Readers, we did it. We are guilty. I regret the passing of red phone boxes;
but not enough to make a call from one. I lament the loss of human contact,
and order food by Ocado. The Devonshires mourn the loss of the era of the
telegram - and run one of the best websites I've ever seen.
Our large post office in the city centre shut recently, and on Saturday I went into the new post office in WH Smith would you believe, for T V licence stamps.I was told they did not win a franchise to supply them.What ever happened to this country.
Mr and. Mrs.J..Goucher, Coventry, West Mids
indeed, daniela... who could ever provide road tax, stamps, passport applications, but the post office? it's not like anyone is doing it now, is it?
post offices provide awful service. they should stick to being post offices, for post. there would be no queues, but the service would be essential. well, unless you like that mobile office idea (which I do). locations should not be chosen on pure business grounds, same as with rail or bus links, the less popular of which must be subsidised by the more popular.
hey, maybe deliveries could be made first thing in the morning before people go to work instead of at lunchtime?
whatever, I can't help feeling d.a.'s real aim here is not to kill off post offices, but rather to kill off surplus old people.
jem, london, uk
Local Post offices are a social service, and a service to the local community that needs to be preserved for the local community. There are usually queues in local post offices, which must be some kind of justification for having them preserved. They are being used. The demise of such local services in rural villages adds to the difficulty of sustainability of the local community. No local post offices, no local shops, no local transport , no local village school, all points to an increasingly difficult local community sustainability at a time when we should be making local small communities as sustainable as possible, if only for the reduction of the carbon footprint. The other problem not mentioned by the Dowager Duchess or this article is the laughable lack of consultation before closing the post offices. There was an official form of consultation but the end result was to ignore the comments and go ahead with the closures, at least in Derbyshire.
Professor John Herbert, Bakewell, Derbyshire
David, I agree. I try my best to avoid the queues by avoiding the post office.
jasper, chelmsford,
Post offices may be losing money, but if so that is a matter of their prices perhaps being too low. Many of the post offices which are closing are extremely busy. Using the post office these days involves queues which would be unthinkable in a privately-run business outside the Christmas rush.
Paul, Leeds, UK
I use my City Centre GPO but New Labour plc has decided to close it next month, leaving me with not much time to blockade myself inside and start my own revolution!
Paul, Coventry,
Before criticising one must bear in mind many of these staff are poorly trained. Yes, there are those who chat rather than work, but isn't that the case with all jobs? Instead of MP's running round trying to appease their own constituents should not an All Party Committee be looking at which rural post offices can be saved, so there is less of an impact on the rural community, one post office saved out of say three in one area? At least country dwellers would have a post office somewhere near instead of having to travel miles into the nearest town.
ray borge, leominster, england
and here was me thinking the the Government had killed Post Offices by gradually removing key services from them, then when footfall naturally falls, declaring them unneccesary and closing them. Death by a thousand cuts.
Tony Ford, Stockport,
Could these country folk who want to retain rural post offices at the expense of the taxpayer be the same people who used to display those "Free Enterprise Works" stickers in their rear windows in the Eighties?
Those of us who inhabit urban areas may have had our industries decimated, but at least we are grateful for the economies of scale that allow us to retain our services.
Thanks David, once again, for countering the current flood of Whinge and for explaining the nature of a Free Market Economy.
arnoldo, Coventry,
If I could still get my TV licence and car tax at my localoffice I would visit more often. A lage part of the loasses is due to the business being taken away form Post offices.
The second part of te problem is the EU insistence on comparing Post Office subsidies with the operations of DHL and the Dutch post, which are not comparable operations in that they do not provide any type of social service.
KW, Bognor Regis , ENGLAND
Get real, Aaronovitch
I live in an old folk's home on the edge of Salisbury. I am disabled. I can walk to my local PO which is about to be closed. To go to the main PO in the City I have to catch a bus which runs every hour, stand in a queue and then catch a bus back. I use the PO regularly.
Get a life and get out of the Great Wen. You might be surprised that there are peasants like me who live here.
Clive Holland, Stratford sub Castle Wilts, England
Numerous comments here to the effect that "actually, my local post office is always busy" - which either means (a) it is profitable and therefore is not going to close, or (b) despite being constantly busy it does not charge enough for the services it provides to be profitable.
If (a) then the comment is irrelevant to the article. If (b) then you should pay more if you value the service so much. Asking other people (i.e. taxpayers in general) to pay for you to use the service is pure selfishness.
Also numerous comments about how the post office provides a service no one else can, for parcels etc. If so, the PO should act like a proper monopoly, ramp up its prices to maximise profit and become a sustainable business. Anyone arguing that the service is beyond value etc should not balk at paying the higher price.
James, London, UK
It is more efficient to have a business surrounded by 200,000 potential customers (i.e. in a city). So businesses tend to be located in cities. If a business is located in a place where it is inefficient for it to be it will close. The inefficiency of keeping it open must be paid for.
People who live in the country benefit from open spaces and a generally better quality of life. Why should city dwellers who have to put up with living cheek by jowl next to each other have to pay for the inefficiency of the lucky country dwellers?
If you want a PO or local shop so much, move to a city, its a free country, you have a choice. If you dont want to (and I suspect you dont) quit complaining.
Tad, London,
Perhaps the post offices around the country would shut down if it wasn't for the millions of customers that form lines to recieve help from the buzy staff.
RMichael Rivers, Livonia, US Michigan
David Aaronavitch broke with Times columnists' tradition, by failing to include the EU in the list of culprits for any perceived evil.
Thank you, John Wilkinson, for restoring order.
As regards the Post Offices, if people chose to pursue quality of lifestyle by living in the middle of nowhere, they have no right to expect a subsidy in support of this choice
John Duggan, Lisbon, Portugal
I wonder if Post Office queues were always so painfully slow, or were they once simply comfortably slow - yet it is us who have moved on?
Either way, move on we must or we would still have iconic emblems like the GLC and the Milk Marketing Board. Pleasing and fanciful, but hardly relevant.
steven age, cambridge,
"Labour killed the Post Offices by making people have to receive their benefit payments & pensions via bank transfer"
Still the post offices can be profitable if customers pay their utility bills, buy stamps, post parcels, use post office savings banks facility to draw money out and pay money in as post offices accept bank cheques like I do etc.. etc..
Mark, LONDON,
The Post Office killed the Post Office. I have boycotted my local one because of the rude attitude of the staff behind the counter, chatting away to everyone else but the person they are serving. I honestly cannot bear to stand for another hour in a queue without throwing my parcel in rage. I'd be very happy indeed if I could access a Post Office from a supermarket - perhaps they would improve the customer service that the current PO is desperately lacking.
jimmeh, Glasgow,
Yes - we, the younger "technology aware" generation, killed it. And as a result, are making life harder for people who rely on them for very basic functions such as collecting their pensions or posting a package.
I agree its unhealthy to foster nostaligia for the obsolete, but in my village it is a real life line for many. If we didnt have a post office, think of all the extra journeys made by car to the nearest town or city which would be made, when before it was a 5 minute walk.
Amy, South Chailey,
Nearly everyone commenting about queues in Post Offices seems to deduce that "queues = popular". My experience is that these long queues form because, generally, the tellers are so painfully slow...
Andy, Sutton, Surrey,
Yes, absolutely. The whole post office 'debate' is desperately tedious - a bit like the one about us all wanting to use small shops.
tony, rochester, uk
good article- stop blaming the government- if people dont use them, they disappear, the same for village schools etc. As harsh as it is to say, the vast majority of people who really care or use post office are dying out...
jim, exeter, devon
What are all these anti-Euro nutters going on about? If the government wanted to spend more money to subsidise more post offices it could do so provided that it had this cleared by the Commission under the State Aid rules which have applied for the whole period that the UK has been a member of the Common Market. The fact is that the last time the government sought and obtained such approval it was done on the basis that it wouldn't ask for more. That was a choice made by the government. They could have proposed to pay a lot more and to maintain the subsidy for longer.
AB, Leeds, UK
Labour killed the Post Offices by making people have to receive their benefit payments & pensions via bank transfer...
paulc, gloucester,
? do i walk up to the village to go to our Post Office, or, do I take the bus to Ryde ( 6 miles away - bus every hour - fare £5.00 return) or do i drive, pay to park possibly, or may not be able to park.
Some services are priceless - the Post Office is one of them. Why not nationalise the Post Office like Northern Rock? - oh sorry it already is.
Peter, St Helens, Isle of Wight UK
The author should look at EU Postal directive 97/67/EC to find the truth behind all this nonsense.
Article 88 of the treaty of Nice signed by this government, gives the EU the power to decide what state aid is allowed. Whilst the government has EU permission to continue the £150m subsidy for the time being, it does not have the power to increase it. In this way, every year it will be worth less & less.
Up to now small local post offices have been kept alive by the £150m Social Network Payment. But the government have been steadily removing services from our post offices (vehicle licences, pension payments etc.) and this subsidy is no longer enough.
New regulations (confusing) on sizes & weights are directly imposed by Postal Directive 97/67 EC which also forces postal services into greater competition with such as the German firm DHL and Dutch TNT.
Our government could have protected post offices by putting a moritorium on the changes as did Deutch Post. So why not?
John Wilkinson, Rotherham, South Yorkshire
Close all the Post Offices and you'll destabilise the black economy of eBAY. Many's the time I've queued to send a recorded delivery behind someone with half-a-dozen, various-sized packages to be sent to the same number of different addresses.
Andrew Gallant, Leicester, UK
Is it just me or does anyone else think it's very sad that older people need a local Post Office to keep their social life alive? In my experience Post Offices are dark, dingy, depressing places to be endured rather than treasured. Long queues, cheap tack being flogged at every turn, (who actually goes to the Post Office to buy a hairdryer I ask you?) and pointless efforts to diversify (digital photo machines, broadband services etc.) is what sums up a Post Office these days. The only highlight is the staff, who are on the most part cheery and helpful. But overall the modern Post Office is suffering from a woeful lack of direction; surely government money would be better spent supporting initiatives to involve and support older people in their local communities rather than attempting to shore up a what is clearly a failing business model?
Sian, London, UK
I'd love to send my child to school in our village, but the school closed down before my son was born. I'd love to have the opportunity to shop in the village, but the shops had already gone by the time I moved here. The one amenity we still had was the Post Office. That closed on 4th March. I HAVE to get in the car to go shopping, to take my child to school, and now to use the Post Office. The rural bus takes 27 minutes each way to our nearest Post Office in a circular route. And they're one an hour, so when it's dropped you off, you have an hour's wait for the return journey. It makes me sick that the elderly and the carless in this community have been subjected to that. Why is the same Government that hikes up petrol prices and wants us to be more environmentally friendly are forcing people to travel by car by removing rural amenties?
Jane, Hassall Green, Sandbach, Cheshire
I suspect if Tesco were run like post offices, then a huge volume of utterly unnecessary stores would close.
Tom, London,
The post office offers too many services for which it earns no money from and their service suffers as a result. If people just used the PO to send letters and parcels then all would be resolved and the queues that so many people have mentioned would disappear.
People should pay their bills online, set up direct debits and have pensions payed into their bank accounts. Tax discs, passports should be done online or requested for by simply posting your application. Banking services, internet access and travel monies/insurance should be left to be done by banks, telephony providers etc.
If the PO stuck to letters and parcels it could focus on getting that right and maybe make a profit, those PO that didn't get enough business would shut, those that did would survive.
Problem Solved!
Ross, Slough,
The post office close to my flat in London is always busy, no matter what time of day I go and I go in regularly to send my timesheets special delivery. And it's always a mixture of people wanting to send packages and letters, pay bills, get forms, etc. The same is true in the post office a couple of miles around when I go to try and find a shorter queue. I understand the fact that the post office isn't making money but I haven't seen a clear plan of what the alternatives are going to be. Where will I do my banking if my local branch closes (I put in cheques at the post office as there's no branch of my bank for miles around)? How will I go about getting special or recorded delivery? You may not use the service as much and I'm sure that's true for a lot of people but plenty of us still do and the closures would be easier to take if we knew what the alternatives were.
Tess, London,
"My local post office is always busy"
Every one who says this shouldn't worry. It's not your post office that will shut. It's the ones who's weekly transactions are in double figures and are populated by people who don't want to use the internet, banks, supermarkets and other horrors of the modern world as an alternative.
In what looks like a rapidly approaching recession I don't really want my taxes subsidising these people.
Mark, Sheffield,
We did not kill the Post Offices, they committed suicide. By making them increasingly unattractive to use, the Powers That Be ensured that people would find alternative methods of doing business. On Monday, I went to my local High Street Post Office to post a parcel, which had a pre-addressed, postage paid label. All that I needed to do was hand the parcel to the clerk, get my receipt stamped and depart. A transaction taking, at most, two minutes. After waiting 30 minutes, because the queue extended out of the door now that it's the only post office in a 3-mile radius, I discovered that the process had now been computerised "in the interests of efficiency". The highly efficient computer recognised the address but failed to recognise the company. This proved to be an almost insurmountable problem, only resolved by the clerk typing in, with one finger, the details of the address. What should have been a simple transaction finally took me 45 minutes to complete - in my lunch break.
Angela Barratt, London, UK
We NEED Post Offices around the United Kingdom, the postal services are completely under valued, in fact they serve a great purpose and wide/range and variety of services.
Just think about it:
Passport Applications, Road Tax, Parcels, Stamps, Recorded and Registered Post, the list is endless.
Who could possibly cover the services may I ask?
DANIELA PANI
Daniela Pani, Reading, Berkshire
Andrew Norfolk once again doing splendid reports from the north. Today from Dewsbury.
Jonathan Allison, York, North Yorks
Do we hold any hope for the public, all of us, taking responsibility for our actions?
Social decline isn't because Post Offices are closing, it's because we bought the lie that our neighbours are paedophiles and murderers, that the streets of Luton are more deadly than Baghdad - and bolted our doors to keep the evil world out of our TV-based recreation.
Ed Freshwater, Aberdeen, Scotland
The people in my village bleated that the Post Office and Village Shop should not close, but they conspicuously didn't USE the shop. They were happy to drive all the way to town and buy their Tesco shopping in bulk. Surprise surprise -- the shop owners couldn't afford to keep it going. When they couldn't sell the business as a going concern, they applied to convert the shop back into a residential dwelling so they could sell it. And the same people in the village who'd put the shop out of business OBJECTED! What a bunch of hypocrites.
D Pelgarthe, Manchester, UK
The reason that we need Post Offices is that posting a letter or parcel is now so complicated that a personal appearance is needed at the counter . Perish the thought that a letter to a friend that is understamped will result in a penalty of £1 plus the extra postage.The staff at the Post Office even expect you to fully stamp letters to the Inland Revenue or Customs and Excise.Naturally the basic Tax Return fails to qualify for the lowest rate of postage so if you require proof of postage the Post Office staff insist on weighing the offending envelope and inform you that extra postage is required.. Bring back prepaid envelopes for communication with Government departments
since we should not be charged for writing to our civil Servants.
Geoff, Elgin, Scotland
Absolutely wrong; we have 2 Post Offices in Stevenage and both have long queues every day. Postal services have deteriorated significantly while postage cost has risen. No wonder, when bosses and incompetent CEO's get high sky salasres and huge compensation for failures. - see Northern Rock. I wonder why people are not out on the streets, as the French do, when they get 15K salaries and their boss gets 600K to a Million.
Alice, Stevenage,
If hardly anyone uses Post Offices so much these days as opined by Mr Aaronovitch, then why, when one enters one in any part of the country, does one have to queue?
Lee, Sevenoaks, Kent
People may hate you for saying it, but you're right. In the end, we value the things we're prepared to pay for. It's hypocritical to demand that others (taxpayers) subsidise services that we ourselves don't care enough about to keep going with our own custom (and therefore money). Of course, a minority of people will be affected. Perhaps the rest should take pity on them and fork out an even bigger subsidy. Or, perhaps, if people value their post offices so much, they should find a way to save them themselves. Also, if the Post Office (for pity's sake) is really the hub of social life in many villages, perhaps there's a deeper problem that people ought to reflect on.
David Pritchard, Madrid, Spain
In the scheme of things £200 million a year for a popular national service is not actually that much.
The Royal Mails profits for 2005/6 were £355m - if it had not been split from the post office than the organisation would have been profit making. The split conveniently allowed the post office service to be called 'loss making' paving the way for closures. The true reason for the closures is the value of the premises.
Post office costs are £4 million a week, and this is in return for a service. Defra (who I work for) lost 500 million in return for nothing.
http://www.warmwell.com/rpa.html
http://www.newstatesman.com/200605150007
Billions are wasted on useless consultants; the civil service is swarming with 'temporary' workers who are employed ' ongoing' (i.e not temporary but can be employed for years) so their salaries are being paid twice to agencies.
The government should be looking far closer to home when it comes to saving money.
sophie, london, uk
Close them all - what other organisation would you need to queue in to post a parcel while you wait for a clerk to process and check an incompetent customer who cannot fill out a passport form correctly?
Ian Cooper, Bedford, UK
Absolutely! This campaign is absurd nostalgia for a world that no longer exists, and probably never did. Post offices are normally rather grotty shops, the idea that these are thriving social centres is ridiculous. There are far better places to serve this function, if the demand really existed.
I would happily never enter another post office in my life.
Nick, France,
My local post office, which is threatened with closure, is always packed, and frequently has queues out into the street. The only reason for its closure is to further rationalise the post office network - it cannot be through lack of business... Maybe fewer people use post offices now because it is so difficult to get to one - if this one is closed it is a long way to the next (despite post office statistics)! From my experience it is not because the post offices that are open are not used!
Juliet Kavanagh, London, UK
I too live near a post office. The queue is long because most of those who queue in our post office tend to be newly arrived immigrant benefit claimants. It does take me a long time to reach the counter with a parcel. The counter clerk spends all his time trying to explain to the claimants who have very little grasp of English. Pickpockets operate in an atmosphere like this and no one I know buys stamps in that post office and even the pensioners I know have moved to bank accounts. It is a subpost office and the man in-charge was saying the other day that he does not wish to renew the contract becuase of the hazzle he has with the benefit claimants
Gary Smith, LONDON,
Post Offices are used less because many of the services they used to provide have been taken away from them. TV and Motor Licenses,Pensions,Savings Bank etc. etc. As for letters these have been largely replaced by eMail. So we have a catch 22 situation.
The Post Office provides fewer services and is therefore less used is therefore closed down because it is not used. Clever eh?
George Herbert, Bournemouth, England
Of course. The ideal world is a village built around a supermarket and a petrol station and a ton of CCTV cameras. Take a holiday in France and observe the high street in the majority of its villages.
Why is our government so obsessed with profit? They're like a bunch of hedge fund managers. Sell off the assets and fire the people. The NHS made a profit last year of £2 billion. Why? What for? To raise it up next year from being 18th. in the world league table? Some hope!
john problem, winchester, uk
Absolutely and utterly untrue. I live next to a huge Post Office in London - lucky me, you might say. But the queues, every day, all day, are crushingly long. It can take an hour to post a parcel. I can't understand why David Aaronovich is arguing for closures other than sheer perversity.
By the way, I assume your mother's first favourite Mitford is Nancy? Hope so.
Tom, London,
Everyone says they want to keep the pub and garage then go down to Asda and Tesco for the cheaper petrol and booze.Its typical UK attitude whinge but dont do anything about it. After all the Brits complain about litter,then a recent poll 6 out of 10 people admitted to littering.Its a British desease they cant help it.
Bill Rees, Truro, Cornwall
"Finally a decent article about the rubbish spouted about rural post offices"
jce, sunshine coast, australia.
Sorry, this about the UK.
Jay, Brum,
Closed at lunch time, shuts up at 5pm, never open on saturaday afternoons, last time I tried they didn't take visa, no wonder they are going out of business. Generally the people working there have the air of doctors receptionists, the list goes on. They only survive because the are not a proper business and offer a terrible service because they are not a business. Time to sell the whole lot off, the best will survive and good riddens to the rest.
Jason White, Paris,
I would like to be clear here - so there is no room for misinterpretation. The Post Offices are closing because they are haemorraging cash... It's that simple. With only one-tenth of a post masters day involved in actually dealing with customers, it's ludicrous to think that they should remain as they are.
I personally only use the Post Office when I absolutely have to, because they are so incredibly slow. In big post offices, I used to spend around an hour waiting for my tax disc. This absurd new pricing tariff that the Royal Mail enforce.
In the smaller Post Offices - the local hubs, the gossips shops, you can spend 20 minutes waiting to get served to buy a single stamp, because the 'old dears' are gabbering on.
To get around this, I buy car tax online, buy stamps in a supermarket, and try to use an alternative delivery address when I order things online I intend to give to other people.
Michael, Newcastle,
"I wasn't aware that David Aaronovitch's personal experience was somehow the measure of everyone else's personal experience. Apparently the author of this article scarcely uses post offices - and hey presto this must be true of everyone else. The arrogance is breathtaking."
I believe the "Four million fewer of us use post offices this year compared with three years ago" really speaks for itself Phil.
However I grant the majority of these will be urban customers with no need to visit a local post office.
Andrew, Abu Dhabi,
It is obvious that this writer is basing his article on his own very limited experience. How is it that when I go into local Post Offices in our town of Bedford there are consistently queues of people seeking very meaningful and needed services.
The very multi ethnic group of people in Bedford demand services across a whole spectrum which to my knowledge is only served by Post Offices. The local PO provides an incredibly high level of service across a huge range of needs.
Anyone who uses Post Offices will know that the rampant demand for internet services, particularly sales on the internet, including eBay, supporting small businesses and the internet lifestyle of British families, is supported primarily by local Post Offices.
I also fully support the view that village life is significantly enhanced by the existence of village post offices, but I do not believe that this is just a rural issue - towns and cities are affected also.
Ron , Bedfordshire, UK
"Post Offices: we killed them"
Yes that's right - people like David Aaronovitch are killing them by defending closures of busy post offices.
It may be that there are too many post offices, and it may be that sentiment should not be allowed to influence downsizing the number of branches, but DA is peddling the usual misinformation about the use of many post offices under threat of closure.
My local post office is always busy, not used primarily for social purposes, but for posting parcels, withdrawing money etc. The queue is almost always out in to the street but it is due to be closed on geographic reasons - its proximity to other post offices. It will come as no surprise that the other post offices in question - both close to a mile away - are also equally busy.
Mr Aaronovitch clearly does not recognise this from his Ocado delivered experience. Some people live life online, others prefer the real thing.
Mike S, London, UK
One does not have to use a service regularly in order for it to have value, the option to use it has itself measurable value to the customer. It actually makes quite respectable financial sense for such option value to the general consumer to be paid by subsidy out of general taxation. Indeed, one might well argue that if the PO is to refuse to provide the convenient option for the public, partiocularly with repect to packages etc., there is less justification than ever for subsidy, though no doubt the subsidy will continue unabated.
One might also reflect that by closing such local Post Offices the likelihood is that queues at the remaining Post Offices will lengthen even more, imposing even greater costs in terms of lost time to everyone who has to use the centralised Post Offices, plus of course the fuel costs of travelling to them and so on. The rational solution is not to close PO's but to extend the range of services offered to save people even more journey time.
E Burgess, Slough,
what is this all about?
I hate the Post Offices. I hate the waiting, I hate the bored and confused staff for whom any request seems a burden, I hate the out of day displays and the tatty posters, I hate the short opening hours....
We have moved on as a nation, the Post Offices have not
David, Milton Keynes,
What a load of twaddle. In the UK the Post Office Service was, and still is a service. What will kill the Post Office Service is the privatisation – if we let it. There is a big difference in running a service on business like grounds, and running it as a business.
The real business as not been adversely affected by the internet revolution – most people that wrote letters still do, and millions more now ‘buy on line’ creating an increase in post with the deliveries. Things like the loss of car tax and TV Licences would reduce the cost of running a service – they cause a loss of ‘profit’ for a business! Pensions are still picked up from the Post Office by possibly the majority of elderly pensioners, albeit by card instead of pension book.
Wise up and support CAPOC (www.PostOfficeClosures.org.uk) in helping those who are under the threat of closure, and to put pressure on the Government to look at the way in which the closure programme is being so inhumanely implemented.
John W, Rippingale, Lincs
David works in an office, so when ever he wants to post something he puts in his out tray. It is of course inconceivable to him that they are people who don't actually work in offices. Carers perhaps, Pensioners, the unemployed. Get out more David.
John , Leeds , UK
In the Netherlands, post offices adapted to falling demand for their core products by expanding into white label banking and insurance products, basic bank services and the opportunity was there to offer other branch services. There are also other services they could offer - I mean how much would they have to make to be financially viable anyway? The sad truth is that Post Offices not because of a lack of demand, but a complete failure of initiative, a dull acceptance that nowt can be done that has sadly failed their probably quite lucrative communities. If a teashop can make money, surely another business could have.
Mike, London,
Post Office and Royal Mail must be two of the most famous "brands" and it must surely be worth at least 50p of anyone's cash to post a letter to anywhere in the country. Instead of closing these offices why can the Post Offices not be sold as franchises and sensible prices charged for Mail. Or am I missing something??
Pete, Barry, Wales
Fancy having a mother who likes Ken Livingstone? I feel almost sorry for Mr. Aaronovitch.
More to the point, why no mention in this article that it is Brussels and the unelected dictatorship of Europe who are insisting that the Post Officies be shut?
French farmers are fine as are Spanish fishermen in our waters, but to have our own Post Officies? No!
George Ball, Diss,
Try venturing outside the London bubble for a few weeks and see how you feel then.
This kind of thinking is having a catastrophic effect on the 98% of the country where most of us live.
Provision of Post Office services in rural areas should be an obligation, not destroyed because of either profit margins or EU oversight.
J. Wilkes, Gloucester,
Notice the 'I scarcely visit our local post office' transforms itself into a 'we are increasingly unlikely to use them'.
I wasn't aware that David Aaronovitch's personal experience was somehow the measure of everyone else's personal experience. Apparently the author of this article scarcely uses post offices - and hey presto this must be true of everyone else. The arrogance is breathtaking.
I live in a small village in Wales. I end up using the post office at least once a week - even if only to draw money out. It would be vastly inconvenient for my local post office to close - but I would manage. For the elderly in the village it would be more damaging.
Rather than imagining that David Aaronovitch is the centre of the universe around which everything revolves and is defined, perhaps he ought to get his brain in gear and some perspective. Not everyone lives in cities, or with well connected public transport, or in the same circumstances.
Phil, Wales,
It's about time people like this got out into the real world instead of pontificating about something they know nothing about. I know 3 pensioners all of whom are worried sick about
how they will get their money if the local post ofice closes. You
will be old and frail and have difficulty coping with life yourself one day, David. I just you hope others will not be as inconsiderate about your needs as you obviously are about theirs.
Reg, Halifax,
You what?!
If you know another way to post packages, do tell.
Anna Lawrence, Oxford, UK
Finally a decent article about the rubbish spouted about rural post offices. Few people really use them but everyone moans that their village should have one. I spent years working in rural areas and constantly heard the refrain about saving them but not once did any argument stack up beyond the hazy belief that they were important. Those that shouted loudest never use them - its always for the old people!
The solution is already available - mobile post offices that visit a number of villages. In each village someone can act as a central collection point for post and then pass the items onto the mobile van. They even do the franking. There is no need for a permanent post office.
And have you ever tried to use a rural post office out of the normal work hours? In fact most dont even open that long.
For years the Post Office has been subsidising rural shops that noone uses because they are more expensive than Tescos where people would rather drive to at all hours.
jce, sunshine coast, australia
It's one of the busiest "shoppes" in town. Yes, we're a little place, and there's no FEDEX box within 30-50 km. OK, the hardware store takes UPS packages at a commission. I hate the queues at the Post Office, but if I'm lucky, I go to the counter without waiting. Payphones? Yes, I use them on all my holidays, with a prepaid card. I canceled my mobile phone about 10 years ago. And my cable television service 7 years ago. I can still play DVD's. When I'm in big Post Offices in major U.S. cities, there's always a line (queue) of 15 to 20 people sending parcels or whatever. Then I throw my envelope of film into the meter-mail slot (did I say I use film in my camera).
Bruce Nolan, Chestertown, NY
How can you say hardly anyone uses the P.O these days? Visit the Romford main P.O at anytime of day and you will see the queue out of the door 95% of the time!
Peggy, Romford, Essex
Post Offices are the backbone of the country.
Rather than close them, do what Australian Post has done,
When all the various pensions and allotments of the services were taken from the Post Offices and instead paid into bank accounts, the Post Office branched out into other ways.
As well as making payments for trlephone and internet bills, I find it very handy that I can pay electricity, gas and water accounts there. Plus the council rates, and other things. Also, banking . Getting foreign currency. The sale of an extended range of envelopes, greeting cards,
and a variety of other things.
It is to be hoped something can be done to stop Post Offices being banished to the back of book stores, like I found, while passing though Hammersmith.
margie , victoria, australia
I regularly queue, or have a queue form behind me, when I use my local post-office. As someone who increasingly works from home, I have a growing need to send and receive physical items; my post-office helps with both the sending and receiving.
Kevin Sweeney, Edinburgh, UK
Our local Post Office always has customers in.The truth is Post Offices were killed by the EU competition regulations,because they were cross subsidized.
Have you ever tried sending a parcel by email?
Peter, Manchester, England
Spot on! I'm loathe to want something to be taken over by supermarkets, but these P.O s have been run so badly for so long they need to go. They seem to expect people to queue for 20 mins to post a parcel and be grateful to them!
Neil, Birmingham, U.K
Get real David also !!! Go and tell the people of Walsall they don't use PO's much. Witness the queue at the main PO during dinnertime every day in the High St !!!!
Ian Payne, WALSALL,