I have to comment on Olyvia's reference to a foetus not having a pulse when aborted. Not many people actually realise that the heart begins to beat at approximately 21 days or 3 weeks after conception. The pregnancy often hasn't even been realised at this stage.
There is also a lot of talk about a foetus not being 'viable'. Viable where though? It is very viable in the womb - the safe environment for that stage of development. If someone were to come and pluck me out of the earth and place me on the moon, I would no longer be 'viable' as I would not be in the safe environment for my stage of life.
I believe people should have choice, but 'informed' choice and to think much more seriously about the life they are carrying. I have every sympathy for 'difficult' circumstances, but I'm afraid that many circumstances are not really that difficult. Circumstances that seem aweful at the time have a way of changing in the future. Too many women have regrets.

Jan, Margate, UK

It was encouraging to read this article, to see others who are understanding the issue of abortion. I also have rasied the argument that abortion reminds me of the slave trade - something that once upon a time many people thought was absolutely fine, they could not see the wrong in it, yet now they look back and are horrified. it is as if many people are asleep to what is really going on.

I read someone's book once that made a good point about you cannot seperate the mother and baby - you hurt the mother then you hurt the baby, you hurth the baby then you hurt the mother. And we see this when abortion takes palce, it cuts across a woman's natural maternal instincts which is to protect and nurture and the deep affects that many women experience following an abortion is a result of going against these instincts. I don't believe that the psychological affects that many women can testify to come from some guilt about the life that could have been but because of the life that existed.

Gemma, UK,

Wow! How wonderful to read a decent piece of journalism on the subject of abortion - especially the 2 paragraphs fourth and third from the end. Perhaps at last we are waking up to the truth about abortion - that no matter how we dress it up and justify its need, it takes one life and usually goes on to destroy the other.

Karen Ann Bruin, YORK,

The reason why people feel uneasy about expelling a cluster of cells is that they MAY be a human one day. Without intervention, almost certainly. That does not make those cells a person now, or when the abortion is carried out. We might feel guilty pulling out plants that have grown in the wrong spot, or halting any other process that in full fruition may have been bigger and greater. But the fact is that whatever it was, when it was halted, it was not complete.

I believe that women who get abortions feel guilt about what might have been, not about the 'complete' 'fulfilled' 'life' being destroyed right now. It always amazes me that most pro-life advocates care nothing for the plight of animals used for meat - fully grown, fully functioning beings that can think and feel pain - yet condemn the destruction of a mere cluster of cells that doesn't even have a pulse.

If the objection is because they are humans and can think and feel... then that objection is voided for the fact that fetuses cannot think of feel when allowable abortions are conducted. If the objection is that fetuses are merely alive and deserve to live, then they better sure as hell be advocating veganism as well.... or else pro-lifers are nothing be hypocrites. Also, I believe that Hollywood does not like to deal with abortion in movies because without the pregnancy, there would frequently not be a movie. And, there is still an odd societal discomfort with the female body - male bodies are 'funny' (any women in Jackass?) - female bodies are to be sexy, mommy, or left alone. Know any movies about mammograms or pap tests?

Olivia Ross, Sydney, NSW

Mathiine, surely the answer to children living as miserable slaves, working at 6, living on the streets is to stop them living as miserable slaves, working at 6 and/or living on the streets, not just having their mothers abort them and forgetting about it. I don't understand how you solve something horrific with something horrific. And as for saving them from being unhappy with a disability, eugenics, anyone? You can't judge how happy someone is going to be before they're even born. As a wheelchair bound person myself I can tell you that it isn't my disability that depresses me so much as the way I'm treated because of it. People suggesting abortion for disabled babies is justified being the most hurtful.

"Remembering" is not the point. True most us don't recall anything that happened to us before we were two, but it was still illegal for adults to abuse us. Are you one of these loons that think it's okay to circumcise newborn babies without anesthetic because theywontremeberanyway?

Janet, UK,

I think the author's reading way too much into this. If a character on tv or in a movie chooses to have an abortion, the story is done. The only place to go with the plot is regret or relief. If she has the child, there's a new character and a whole new direction for the movie or series. Don't assume it's all political. It's business.

David, Albuquerque, U.S.A., New Mexico

But I think that before termination, some measures have to be taken, like a research as for how the woman (and possibly the father) live and their motives for the abortion, their responsbility. I know it's lot of work but it is needed because some women abuse of abortion, like they think it is a contraception. So you have to make a real distinction between a woman who cannot be mother for serious causes and a woman who simply doesn't want and don't assume her past actions. Abortion should not be banned (it won't prevent some to abort anyway, remind the years before abortion was legalized!!!) but it should be better supervised.

mathiine, Reims , Fr

Rarely have I read a more fatuous declaration than the claim that "abortion is worse than slavery". From ancient Egypt to antebellum America, slaves were subject to unchecked physical, sexual and psychological violation. Defined by sociologist Orlando Patterson as “social death”, slavery denied designates their civil, political and reproductive rights. There is evidence of slaves terminating pregnancies (whether a result of consensual or non-consensual sex) as an act of sabotage and to protect offspring from enslavement: terminations were necessarily carried out under dangerous and unsanitary conditions. This isn’t far from the situation which prevails today, where many free and enslaved women turn to backstreet butchers or ill-equipped clinics to preserve themselves and their dependents from further destitution, social stigma and death. Denying women the right to have first trimester abortions, under safe and supportive conditions, acts as a form of symbolic re-enslavement for all.

Catherine, London,

A courageous article on what is the most critical moral issue of our age.

Gerard Baker's comparison of abortion to slavery is most apt. But I do not think the abortion age will last as long. Either the nations that are afflicted with abortion will wither and die through population decline or they will finally get up the courage to face the truth about what they do. I prefer to believe the latter.

If only Gerard Baker could write his columns with less caveats and get-out clauses - he describes abortion as being "understandable and forgivable" but then goes on to compare it with slavery. I doubt he would describe slavery as "understandable and forgivable". Sounds like the kind equivocating waffle you hear from the C of E these days.

Anyway, thanks Gerard for finally spitting it out.

Guy Langley, Los Angeles, USA

Brigid, by that logic all women have a moral obligation to be continually pregnant.

Felix, Nottingham,

Gerard, there were several actresses who portrayed having an abortion in the 1970's. Their careers flagged. I am thinking of Adrianne Barbeaux, Jennifer Grey (Dirty Dancing: didn't have an abortion, but was a participant in getting one for a girl friend.) Also, Phoebe Cates and Jennifer Jason Leigh in "Fast Times At Ridgemont High"; they are not exactly A- list stars. Bea Arthur played a woman who had an abortion. She made a bizarre appearance on "Phil Donahue Show" years later, stating she didn't really know what she was doing at the time. She was a success on "Golden Girls". It is probably financial. Half the potential audience is alienated, immediately. Same thing with political activism. In the old days, we never knew what the politics of any star was. It was better for business. Once an actor makes a political statement I disagree with, I never want to watch them again.

Tony Francis, Wichita, KS/USA

When abortion was legalised in Britain 40 years ago, the pro-abortion case held that life begins at birth. The antis held that life begins at conception. Both arguments had logic.

Since then, medical advances have made it normal for a 60% term (22 week) baby to survive, and ultra sound scans now show us how human the foetus looks, even at 12 weeks.

It is no longer seriously claimed that human life begins at birth, so when does it begin? At 28 weeks, 24 weeks, 23.2 weeks, 17.9 weeks. Nobody knows, and so the pro-abortion logic is lost. Whatever deadline is set, it is bound to be flawed.

The anti-abortion argument has not changed: life begins at conception. You may do as you wish with your own body, but not with that of another human being.

Jude, Dulverton, England

GB's point is right on. And, more usefully for those of us who hold strong views on the issue, his is a fair-minded view from which one can have a civilized conversation rather than a polarized battle that ends in tears and screeching. The comparison with slavery is apt: GB’s point is that slaves were considered non-human: without intrinsic worth as human beings, objects of value only in their productivity. Slavery was rightly, and far too late, recognized as thoroughly abominable. Blindness to its evil was based on a “psychic numbing” that permitted the unspeakable because an economy and social system had simply become used to it. We have a modern parallel in abortion: pre-born human babies are only of value if "wanted." There IS something wrong with abortion--otherwise long ago it would have faded as a "hot button" topic. As thorny as the issue itself is how to discuss it honestly without the linguistic evasions of words like "parasite" and "clumps of tissue." Good work, GB!

Anne Armitage, Beverly,, MA USA

The issue of abortion is a moral one for the woman bearing the fetus. It is her choice almost exclusively whether to carry the fetus to term or abort it. There is little, although some, morality outside of that. The issue of abortion is contentious within the USA - and probably in the UK and elsewhere - primarily because women as a whole legitimately resent interference in the most personal of affairs having to do with their bodies from the men who traditionally make up US State legislatures and the US Congress, i.e. those who have the power to propose and enact laws that can criminalize or otherwise restrict a woman's personal choices. The destruction of a fetus at any stage of development is not an appealing concept to anyone, but the choice of abortion almost exclusively rests with the bearer. It is that simple. A woman has the right to choose what she does with her body - as does a man. Men however do not bear children, so they have little to say in the matter.

Wendell Murray, Kennett Square, USA/Pennsylvania

I had an abortion at the age of 19. It was one of the best decisions I have ever made. There is no way my partner at the time and myself would have been able to give that child the type of upbringing it deserved. I also hate to think where I would be right now if I had gone through with the pregnancy.

There was no soul-destroying outcomes in my life - and I have never regretted it.

Women these days use birth control methods to choose when they would like to start having children, and they also are able to make sure that should the birth control method fail - they are not forced into having a child they are not ready for or mentally/physically/emotionally/financially able to have at that point in time.

I think it is the responsible choice in this day and age of over-population and environmental issues. Don't even get me started on the social issues of raising a child you are not ready for. The teenage girl swearing at and hitting her child on the bus the other day comes to mind...

Charlotte, London, London

So we can conclude that Hollywood employs only the most rigorous moral standards when determining what to depict? So elderly love, interracial romance, condom use, masturbation, sagging, weakened bodies, erectile dysfunction, agonizing dementia, chronic suffering, etc. must all be somehow inherently morally wrong! Of course, raising 12 children in mindless luxury is Oh So Right, (witness Cheaper By the Dozen), the over 20,000 children who die from hunger related causes EVERY DAY while we sit in the theater chomping and laughing away notwithstanding. Only those who have never opened their eyes to true human suffering would say that embryos have interests and rights approaching 2 year olds.
For the record, I have never had an abortion, but I miscarried at 7 wks. I did mourn, but mostly for my own loss. I don't believe that that embryo was affected by the experienc. Like most sane parents throughout human history, I don't equate that experience with the death of a child.

Karin Powers, NYC,

Regardless of my personal position on abortion, I think it is ignorant to make the statement that 'deep down most of us believe it is wrong'. In the Romanian gypsy communities fertility is prized and the women use abortion as a form of contraception. Now, I'm not suggesting that this is right, but one woman interviewed said she saw nothing wrong with it and she had had over 50 abortions. I realise this is very different from many parts of the world, and I do find it a little hard to understand, but it shows that there are large number of people for whom abortion is just part of life. Therefore, to make sweeping statements about what is right for women in general to do is ridiculous. It seems that in parts of secular western culture we are devoid of morals in so many areas, that we are quick to jump on something and support it in its extreme in order to make ourselves feel moraly superior. I for one would rather see that woman's two children well fed and happy, than the alternative.

Gemma, nottingham,

Why should teenage pregnancy be a bad thing, Michael?

Janet, UK,

It's a brave journalist who's written this article. I believe he's absolutely right, and history will prove him right. Abortion is unspeakably and shudderingly shameful.

Tony Pellegrini, London, UK

Mr Baker.

I salute you for your courage to publish that article on abortion. Now I shall need to revise my previously negative impression of you.

Maewynia McLain, Cranberry, PA

A fine article, right up until the last point. Most people are not quite sure where the zygote ends and the person begins, and for this reason abortion is morally ambiguous - unless you happen to be religious and believe that the soul is implanted at the moment of conception. For the non-religious, just thinking about where to draw the line - between person and bag of cells - is a squeamish exercise. This ambiguity is not likely to disappear anytime soon, and so I find it highly unlikely that we'll ever regard abortion in the same light as slavery, which is unambiguously immoral. And by the way, there are plenty of films about slavery! Film-makers avoid dealing with abortion for two reasons: firstly because it's squeamish, and secondly, more importantly, they don't know what moral sign to attach to it. If abortion was obviously an abomination, film-makers would feel much more comfortable dealing with it, as they do with obvious abominations like murder, slavery, and rape.

Toby Donovan, London, UK

And I bet you think teenage pregnancy is a good thing too.

Michael, London,

Frankie from Melbourne, Hum, personnally I have sex regularly since my teenage years and I'm very well-balanced, healthy and very happy and accomplished as a woman. How can you judge one's happiness? How can you definitely say that people who have no sex before marriage are more happy than the others, this is nonsense!
As for the abortion issue, if I was pregnant, unless I've been raped, I'll never abort. But I can understand women who do because life is not as simple as that and when you see all those unhappy children, living in misery, or slaves, working at 6, living in the streets, or physicaly disabled and unhappy with their disability, ask you some questions before judging the woman who prefer her child to avoid that sort of life. And as for the consideration of the foetus, a two-year old child won't remember his babies year, then do you really think a foetus will suffer from a termination??

mathiine, Reims , Fr

I am not in the least surprised this artical was written by a man and the tenor of the male posters supports this.
Men and women are responsible for their sexual behaviour, but despite all precautions accidents so happen. Abortion should not be used as an alternative method of birth control but faced with this decision, most women will agonise over it and many will ultimately decide to have the baby. It is their choice to make as they will have to live with the consequences. Men will never have to make it and have the opportunity to run away from their responsibilities. If men try to force women to have babies against their will the Pro Lifers, GPs and church types etd should have to bring them up. Look what happened in Rumania when women were forced. Equality - I don't think so, we are still viewed as mere test tubes for children with no worth of our own. It is a christian orthodoxy statement applied to people who don't share it.

JR, Bucks, UK

Dear Gerard Baker.

Every baby conceived in his or her mother's womb is a living human being. Unless nature interferes during pregnancy, he or she should be allowed to be born.

It does not matter the circumstances into which such a baby is born. The foremost and fundamental principle is that we must never deliberately kill another human being.

Birth is the natural and the only good outcome of any pregnancy.

Peter Sawyer, Barnet, England UK

Could you not have written this without some under the cover gay bashing? If people like you so resent "courageous" gay drama, it sounds like that is exactly what they are - courageous.

Pedro, Odivelas, Portugal

The termination of a pregnancy by abortion is always wrong because it kills an unborn baby.

Peter Sawyer, Barnet, England UK

One thing people seem to forget is that if you have sex, there is a chance of conceiving! Also, no matter how women become pregant, nobody has the right to decide to kill the unborn child. Life, generally, is not fair and bad underserving things happen to all - your life is not just about yourself.

Paul , Plymouth, UK

There must be a deep unease about abortion in our society as so many women have had terminations but so few are willing to talk about their experiences openly or even to close friends or family. The crux of the issue is surely: is there such as thing as a human soul and what happens to it after an abortion? If a healthy six week old foetus is aborted, that would otherwise have gone to term and become a human being, then is this not a "lost" human being somewhere out there in the cosmos? Will we be judged one day?

Rose, London,

This is a fantastic article. It breaks down the fundamental pro-choice argument and completely exposes its contradictions. Its also a hopeful thought that one day people will look back at one million innocents killed a year in the U.S. and millions more around the world a year and regard abortion as the deadliest act humanity has ever conducted.

Greg , Chicago, Illinois

Women have abortions because of other people. When a woman feels safe, cared for and loved she doesn't choose abortion. When she feels abandoned, frightened and alone she has an abortion and afterwards many, many say "I had no choice". As a proportion of the 200,000 abortions in England and Wales every year, the hard cases, rape, woman's life in danger, severe handicap of the baby are really quite few. Women have abortions
because of other people. Men, look to yourselves.

Gill, High Wycombe., England.

Gerard,

Thanks for writing on the subject of abortion from such a fresh angle. I look forward to the day when abortion is no longer considered and parenting, fostering, adoption, extended family etc provide the solutions to crisis pregnancies.

David, Montrose, Scotland

Gerald Baker says..." almost most of the time choosing to have the baby is the good & moral & honourable thing to do"

Maybe but in general I disagree. Thete are many people around who have kids who should not have. What is better? Give birth to a kid which may not get the love & education & way in life he/she should get or get rid of it......if in doubt have an abortion

There are many unwanted kids around. It is more responsible NOT to give birth unless you really are 100% you will be a good parent

Sarah Garrett, London,

It is interesting that one of the blogs on this says to use birth control. It is precisely because people place all their trust in birth control - AND IT ALL FAILS at some point. Even if the failure rate of some forms of birth control may be small eg 2%, if you are in that 2%, you are 100% affected.
The second blog mentions rape. It is extremely difficult to get pregnant from rape. This is due to fear, ejaculation occuring prior to or after penetration, birth control (in the percentage of time that it works) and the fact that the female egg or ova only lives for 24 hrs, sperm can only live in a female body for approx 1-3 days so the woman has to be unlucky enough to be raped during her short time of fertility each month.
If she has been raped once physically, subjecting her to a mechanical rape in an abortion place hardly helps. Abortion hurts women, destroys a child, and robs men of their ability to protect . Abortion brings forth a whole new set of problems.

Teresa, Brisbane, Qld, Australia

"Choosing to have the baby is the good and honourable and moral thing to do"? No!!!

Having a child is the single most selfish and irresponsible act that anyone can commit.

Everyone has the right to take risks with his or her own life, but not with someone else's; and bringing a new life into the world is the biggest gamble one can possibly take. In most cases it is not even a gamble, but a guarantee of pain and misery. Of course, many women have no access to sterilisation, contraception or abortion and/or no choice in whether or not they have sex.

The cumulative result of all these individual decisions is a horrendously and unsustainably over-populated planet.

Jo, England,

"After Lenin legalised abortion by 1934 in Moscow the number of abortions was three times greater than the number of live births, this surely suggests that women are not against abortion and will terminate a child if they feel it will not have a sufficient quality of life."

We as a civilised society and first world country should therefore make damn sure no woman or her child is ever lacking in sufficient quality of life. A poor woman who has an abortion is still poor.

Sandra, London,

Mr. Baker's premise implies that Hollywood only fails to honestly depict the reality of things that are morally wrong. Accordingly, there must be something inherently morally wrong with: gay lovemaking/smooching, elderly lovemaking, masturbating, urinating, chronic suffering, breast sagging, erection failing, and condom package unwrapping. There must be something "oh so right" about providing one's 12 children with comfortably luxurious and carefree lifestyles, ( "Cheaper by the Dozen"), the more than 20,000 children who die DAILY of hunger related causes notwithstanding.
I have never had an abortion, but I have miscarried (at 7 wks). I did cry for that embryo, but my mourning was mostly for my own personal loss. I don't believe that that embryo was affected anymore than if it had never been conceived. The notion that embryos have similar interests and rights to a 2 year old child is absurd to most people who have ever really opened their eyes to profound suffering.

Karin Powers, New York City,

In a world where there are already too many unloved and neglected children, I do not believe abortion to be the 'abomination' that you so righteously think. Could you tell me with moral certainty, Mr Baker, that you think it better than a child is born unwanted, unloved and vulnerable than not born at all?

You say that abortion is an 'inherently expedient and selfish', yet pregnant women who choose abortions are often incapable of providing for a child either emotionally, physically or financially. The reason so many women find disposing of 'an unwanted clump of cells' such an ethical dilemma is because the abhorrent idea of destroying your own flesh and blood is starkly contrasted with the harsh reality of being incapable to provide for it. Is this really selfish?

I disagree that the only stance for a pro-choice supporter is to view abortion with cold, clinical disregard. I suggest you consider a more complex and sensitive approach to the issue before entering any serious debate.

Beth Lomax, Bath, England

Gerard,
You are right. Abortion is wrong. Please keep talking. People are listening. Perhaps more and more of them each day in places you would never suspect in walks of life you would never imagine. Perhaps your work here made someone stop and think...is this what I really want? Is this what I should really do? Please keep talking. Perhaps with your words and God's help, they will find they answer they need to hear to stop these tragic things from happening anymore.
Thanks,

Missy, Bedford, Texas

Furthermore, I see no reason why incest should be lumped in with rape as a valid reason for an abortion. Rape is rape, incestuous or not. I have no idea though why a pregnancy resulting from consensual incest should be aborted, unless there are medical problems.

AM, Louisville, USA

Andrew from London, if 99% of the people opting for open heart surgery died then yes it should be banned. Just like 99% of Babies aborted die. Less than 1% do live with deformities.

No one wants to go to the movies and be reminded of the shame of murdering babies, least of all those who have done it. That is why it is not mentioned in movies, half of America thinks its murder and doesn't want to think about it, the other have murdered and don't want to think about it.

Cheers from across the pond.

Luke, St. Louis, USA

An article which cheered me up no end, thanks Gerard. As a pregnancy counsellor I have listened to hundreds of women in varying states of serious meltdown because of abortions they choose without thinking there was anything wrong with it. The so called pro-choice crowd seem to have an insatiable appetite for the death of unborn babies and the disablement of the women who abort. As for people who propose more sex ed and contraception as a solution, GET REAL! Abortion and its horrible sequelae are a direct result of sex ed and the myth that contraception prevents pregnancies. There's a simple, answer: promote abstinence among teenagers and also marriage and natural family planning. People who practise these values are the happiest and healthiest in our society and we need heaps more of them!
Looking for the truth about abortion? See
www.afterabortion.org

Frankie, Melbourne, Australia

In reading some of the postings hostile toward Baker's conclusions it is now less surprising that the
U.K. has a shrinking population. And that Scotland's population remains so tiny, wobbling around the 5 million mark, is also more understandable than formerly.

Dave Livingston, El Paso County, Colorado, US of A

Fabulous pontificating from people who could never be in a situation where abortion would be a merciful relief from a tidal wave of misery for both mother and child.....A classic case of "let them eat cake."

James, Monteria, Colombia

A very well-written article, Gerard Baker .

I however object to your very callous statement that abortion is worse than slavery. Slavery was not merely the taking of liberty - it was actually the robbing of another's persona, choice, rights and therefore life. What life does one have when one is reduced to the status of property? I guess you never heard of slaves who chose to drown rather than face the life (better put as a "daily death") when living as a slave.

Osei K., London - GB,

In response to Jeni of Berlin's comments I would like to suggest the exact opposite.

I am a 25 year old mother of a 10 year old son. When I was pregnant the only people who suggested I get an abortion were my peers at school - 15 year old girls. I think you see where I am going with this....

I am entirely opposed to abortion, have written letters of support to abolish it on behalf of pro life groups and have offered counselling to girls of my age who have actually gone ahead and had abortions in similar circumstances. Not one of them would have done the same having suffered the reality of the aftermath.

If the government is so concerned with pro choice why not give better access to contraceptives and provide better information about all aspects of teenage sex. In other cases perhaps ADULTS should ask themselves the question...would I have a child with this person? before they engage in sexual activity.

Elizabeth, Portsmouth, UK

Why is it always presented as a choice between being a parent and abortion? Whatever happened to adoption, orphanages, foster care, giving to a family member, etc.?

AM, Louisville, USA

On a technological level slavery partly disappeared because improved medication made it possible for white men to work & survive (blacks being less susceptible to malaria) & so slavery ceased to be an economic necessity. By comparison, assuming overpopulation continues to be a human problem & pre-marital sex remains common I think abortion is still going to continue to a convenience.

We could certainly save 10s of thousands of foetuses by allowing infertile couples to pay pregnant girls to go through a birth. Another use of free marketism.

The moral problem is that there is not a clear dividing line we can use as a moral rule. Once the moment of birth was acccepted (though the ancient Romans found little unethical about exposing unwanted babies) but we know that an 8 or 7 or 6 month baby is not that different. On the other hand only the most doctrinaire now suggests that that a condom is killing a human being.

I think we must recognise that there is no absolutely right answer.

Neil Craig, Glasgow , Scotland

Usually I don't read articles by men regarding ideas of abortion. What could they possibly know about having a normal, happy pregnancy let alone a devestating pregnancy caused by rape, incest or accident.

I think the immoral choice would be to bring a child into the world and having that child know that it's grandfather or uncle is it's father or you had been gang-raped and didn't know the father. Can you imagine how that child would feel and how it would effect it's life. This happens to many women in the West but happens often in many countries without laws to protect women. In over half the countries in the world women cannot even say "no" to their husbands and do not have access to birth control because of religious reasons and/or no protection through the rule of law.

I hope the day never comes again where women have to find back-street abortionists and join the thousands who died before legalized abortion in compassionate countries.

P.N., Barrie, Canada

FAST TIMES AT RIDGEMONT HIGH had a teen abortion and was a successful pop cultureal phenomina. I don't think Hollywood is afraid of the issue, I think Abortion tends to (a) seem like an easier solution for characters (b) kills the drama so unless you have multiple storylines you've sort of ruined your movie with your politics.

rjschwarz, Carlsbad, California

Do you know what else is an agonising choice? Choosing whether to donate the organs of a loved one or not. Everyone knows what the good, honourable thing to do is, and yet people are still allowed a choice? Why is blood donation also not compulsory? Kidney donation from living donors? Carrying a pregnancy to term could kill a woman, or leave her permanently damaged, and yet you don't bat an eyelid at condemning her to death? Why is the foetus' life worth more than a woman's? There is a woman in Columbia who recently died because abortion is illegal there. She had uterine cancer and couldn't get treatment because she was pregnant.

You may say you would make an exception for women who were likely to die if they became pregnant - but how does this square with the position that abortion is murder? Would you let a woman kill someone else to take their organs if she needed them? So why let a woman have an abortion to save her own life?

Your stance is contradictory

Lucy, London,

Gerard,
Dammit, just when I was about to disavow myself of your column you redeem yourself. Thank you .

Mark , Newcastle, Australia

Alexandra - I do indeed believe that fox hunting is far worse than abortion. I must say I don't quite get your point.

A Douglas, London, Uk

What the pro-abortionists will not acknowledge is that the argument for abortion which rests upon the emotive issue of pregnancies arising from incestuous or other forms of rape, is not supported by the hard statistics of reasons for abortion. In the United States, for example, less than .025 of 1% of all abortions are carried out resulting from such rape. When one has removed from the remaining huge percentage, those terminations due to likely severe malformation or brain damage of the foetus (making foetal survival to delivery unlikely), one is left with a staggeringly, shockingly high percentage of approx. 95% of all abortions for reasons other than medical or criminal assault. To those who say the world is suffering over-population, look at the statistics: Western Europe is below replacement rate of its population; Moslem lands have massive overpopulation with destructive social and political implications for the entire world.

Susannah, london,

What we have are radical fringe columnists criticizing Hollywood for being (in this case) merely liberal. Isn't it the liberal Democratic Party Line that abortion should be "safe, legal and _rare_" ???

None of these movies advocate making abortion illegal and dangerous. And how is abortion to be rare unless the great majority of people voluntarily choose not to have them?

(Or are these movie makers fools for assuming that liberal Democratics can be trusted to mean what they say?)

Frank Silbermann, Memphis, TN, USA

Abortion supporters are pathetic. Their justifications for killing pre-born human beings are laughable. Ends to the morally blind always justify the means. Bravo, Mr. Baker. One day what you so eloquently argue here will become reality.

Mike, Bolingbrook, IL

Think of all the glorious talent which has been eradicated through abortion. Think about those who were late on the list of the births in their families, to name just two: Thomas Aquinas, child no. 13, Kathleen Battle, child no. 7. To have heard the latter sing is to have heard an artist of supreme talent gifted with an incomparable and indescribably sublime voice. As for Aquinas we are talking about a landmark in the history of philosophy. Another case to consider: the tremendous talent of Jean-Yves Thibaudet. The night before she was going to abort him, his mother stepped back from the brink. What a gift to the world. What have we lost in the last 30 years? Someone who could have invented a cure for a disease, a technology that would have benefitted millions, a unique work of art? I have no doubt.

Brigid Elson, Toronto, Canada

I have three comments in response to those claiming that men have no right to oppose abortion because they can't have babies and that only women should speak on this issue.
1) I am a woman who opposes abortion and recognise in consequence, that I can't have sex with a man who would not help me to support any resulting baby (given that contraception is not 100% reliable).
2) I do not see this as an unfair restriction on my freedom. I consider abortion to be murder and do not want to have the right to choose to do this, in the same way I do not claim the right to murder anybody else who might inconvenience me.
3) It is wonderful that some men show a desire to take responsibility for their babies rather than encouraging women to abort them. Such men are necessary for the on-going existence of humanity.

Karen, London,

Excellent conclusion. (I would add to the list the "impossibility" of Jennifer Aniston's choosing to kill her and Ross's baby in "Friends".)

Mahmod Mahmod's recent conviction for the "honour killing" of his daughter has led a number of journalists to comment on this immigrant's failure to adopt "British values". The pro-abortion establishment refuses to recognise that they themselves can make no appeal to conscience on this matter. "British values" include respecting the privacy of a parent to kill a dehumanised offspring.
What did Mahmod Mahmod have to learn from that? The journalists refuse to reflect on the fact that another culture might be as bloody-minded about its "right to kill" as Liberals are about theirs.

Kevin, London,

Gerard, thanks for the having the courage to write this piece. It looks like the politically correct didn't like it at all -- look at all of the justifications they are coming up with instead of facing the fact that most abortions are the indefensible taking of human life. I personally favor elective abortion in some cases -- rape, incest, the health of the mother. I'm not sure when the fetus becomes a human life, but it certainly is one by the second or third month.

Geoff B, Miami, FL

"Women in these very difficult situations want to regain their sense of security, their sense of self and and their sense of safety . What they don't want is to be pushed down the soul-destroying path of abortion."

In reponse to Teresa, Fortunately I have never experienced sexual abuse of any kind but I imagine that what women *want* is to forget the awful crime that was committed against them and continue their lives.

Incest by it's nature is committed largely against young children, are you really saying that the best thng for a 12yr old girl is to have her Father's baby and live with that stigma for the rest of her life??

And as for rape, many women who are raped will have a partner. Is he going to stick around and bring up someone else's baby? So the women's relationship is ruined, in the case of marriage that is pretty soul-destroying.

Plus, the rapist is (even more) unlikely to be convicted if the baby is kept so he can remain free to rape again.

VC, London,

I don't much care for films about open heart surgery. Should this procedure be banned too?

andrew, London,

Revelation and Reason, Mr. Baker. You have heard and you have anguished . Perhaps Hollywood has too. Many lives applaud you. And many voices cry out from rubbish dumps, who know what abortion really is. God Bless You.

John Bateman, Philaelphia, Pennsylvania/USA

Actually many Southerners DID admit that Slavery is morally wrong. They couldn't
see a way out for two reasons. The first is that their economic system would
collapse and secondly they were convinced that freed slaves would
cut their throats the minute they were free. Virtually all thought it would be
different in Paradise. Yet unless made to do so by the force of arms most
southerners would not have abandoned it and chosen poverty and what they
assumed would be a race war.

Outlawing abortion has it's own consequences that we probably abhor.
Abortion may be with us until women aren't faced with the
problem of getting pregnant unless they do something to get pregnant -- and I
don't mean have sex. If we really view this as something we abhor, instead of
a law outlawing abortion, a law requiring teen age girls to have a
norplant like device so pregnancy require positive action that presumably meant
the child was desired.

E, Philadelhia , PA USA

Mr. Baker's point is well made in and of its own right, but more usefully for those of us who hold hard and fast views on the issue, it is thoughtful, fair-minded, clear, and...alleluia!...a point of view from which one can have a civilized conversation rather than a polemicized battle that ends in tears and screeching. There IS something wrong with abortion--otherwise it would have faded as a "hot button" topic long ago. But almost as thorny as the issue itself is the question of how to discuss it clearly and fairly. GB has reduced the gnarly to the basic, and maybe, in a wholly reasonable way, given us a way to converse about it. Thank you!

Anne Armitage, Beverly,, MA USA

Man, I thought Europeans and Brits were supposed to superior in intelligence to Americans (at least that's what Bill from MI seemed to be implying), but so many of these comments from the other side of the ocean are utterly lacking in logic or reason. And those that possess some reason start out by mischaracterizing opponents of abortion in order for their own reasoning to make sense.

Until you understand that abortion opponents consider a fetus a human life and accept that belief for the purposes of a debate you'll never convince an abortion opponent that growing up in poverty is somehow worse than death. Saying that someone is better off dead than living in poverty doesn't make any sense.

Eric, Fairfax, VA

I know women have the right to abortion.
But having the right to do it does no sheild anyone from what it is - murder.
So since I am male I will wait for the comments saying I should not get an opinion ...

Also... " Pathetic moralistic posturing cloaked as commentary!
Anamika, London, "

Our culture is really going down the pan when the word moralistic is sincerely used as an insult.

Daniel K888, Melbourne, Australia

An excellent article. it seems to have become almost taboo to challenge abortion, particularly for a man. It is considered a women's problem and their views trump those of all others involved, including the father. Your analogy to slavery is striking, though I doubt you are right that we we will view it as a moral abomination in years to come. Sadly I think abortion will beocme more acceptable in a culture that rarely considers the 'other'.
Great to see someone challenge Hollywood to have the courage of their convictions - to put their money where their collective mouths are!

Peter , N. Ireland,

Everyone who makes the argument that it is a moral choice to abort becasue the eventual outcome is better for - fill in the blank - (the mother, the unwanted child, society, the eventual happy siblings etc.) are missing the point.

If it is a child, this is an absurd argument - unless you also agree that it is ok to terminate any other human life for such greater good.

Until you can show that the obviously human fetus is not human the argument of the consequences being better is absurd unless you are willing to apply it to the rest of us.

If you are willing to apply it all people, then lets just wait until the Child is born and terminate it after we can confirm that her life is truly hopeless and is damaging the lives of other people as well.

Also, any woman who says I am not able to comment because I am not a woman is being silly. We do not have to experience, (or even be able to experience something) to have the right of comment.

Gary, LA, California

I would suggest a more pragmatic view to Hollywood's role in not promoting abortion, simply that in many cases the female lead falls pregnant and this has to be written into the story. You cannot do a pro-choice storyline in a daytime soap or primetime show if in real life the leading lady is keeping her baby.

nick jones, bournemouth, uk

It is a fallacy to suggest that abortion is worse than slavery. Millions of people have lost and continue to lose their lives due to the barbarism of continued slavery. Women choose to have abortions, slaves do not chose to be slaves. There is no comparison.

dawn, manchester,

"The multiplexes are unusually full of feelgood movies to chase away the troubled superpower blues."

Oh come now. Gerard, summer is traditionally the time for "feel-good" mindless entertainment. The films that make "searing indictments" are usually trotted out right before the Oscar season. They haven't gone anywhere. There's nothing unusual about the types of movies in theaters right now.

"When even Hollywood declines to celebrate the moral courage involved in choosing an abortion, it might be time we all woke up to what abortion really is. "

Let's not exaggerate. Hollywood isn't saying anything. The movie is a comedy, most of the hilarious scenes wouldn't have existed if she had an abortion. Hardly a indictment of abortion. Also, let's remember that pro-CHOICE, is about CHOICE. Whatever the choice may be. It's not forcing a woman to have an abortion. Heigl's character not choosing to have a baby perfectly falls in line with what the pro-CHOICE movement is all about.

Lis, Colorado, U.S.

If it is just a clump of cells then, no problem. If it is really a human being then BIG problem. The trouble for us women is that every year it becomes more and more clear that it really is a human being. Future generations will judge us on how we reacted to this reality. "Pope Pius XII did not defend the Jews" will be small beer to what they say about those of us who defended "A woman's right to choose". Lets get real.

Jill Kelly, Evenley, Brackley, Northants

Abortion worse than slavery - what an interesting concept! It certainly says far more about the writer than about the rights & wrongs of abortion.
By the way, I was given up as a baby, rather than be aborted - my biological mother reacted by developing major depression throughout her adult life, leading to her eventual suicide (another "sin" no doubt in your eyes).
So as one that could have been, but wasn't aborted, I whole-heartedly support the right to abortion. If I had been aborted, I wouldn't have held it against her, because as foetus, I wouldn't have known!

Lia, London,

What a tremendous article; I hope this will lead to something. Oh for another Wilberforce; lets hope this is a start.

G R Joseph, Bridgend,

One commenter actually described abortion and "flourishing" in the same sentence. Contradiction anyone?

Some people simply refuse to see the obvious after years of conditioning. The unborn will almost always become a healthy child and abortion attacks that innocence with savagery so we can stay out late clubbing.

If "dependence" on the mother is a criteria for extermination we could shut down hospitals using the same rationale.

Well done Gerard, either society will see this evil one day as you describe or there won't be a society left.

Jim P, Spring Lake, NJ, USA

Well done Caitlin Moran. Gerard Baker - oh dear! How can anyone think slavery is worse than abortion? As a GP for >30yrs I am in the business of relieving human suffering. The abortion of an embryo [up to eight weeks] or even a small foetus causes virtually no human suffering at all. In most cases, it relieves it.
This article was nothing but guilt-mongering, typical of the bossy religionists with emotive phraseology like 'murdering unborn children'. Yes Gerard, I will tell it like it is. It is women making a choice to remove a clump of unwanted cells from their body. That's all. Then they get on with their lives, trying not to be hurt by people like Gerard Baker.

John Fitton, Kettering, Northants

after reading the comments which support abortion as "a responsible thing to do", the "population explosion" (right) and the importance of a woman's "right to choose" it's no wonder europe is the home of every perverse and gutless kind of "choice" there is. from old people being euthanized or left to die in the heat as families vacation at the shore to the killling of babies that are "not viable" to every atrocity imaginable. every single "choice" is supported except to speak out about something that is politically incorrect. that is unforgiveable! millions of women do feel traumatized (i should know) years after an abortion because they know the reality of what they did. that someone who is uneducated views a fetus as no more than cells feels no remorse is only evidence of their blissful ignorance.

clubdittocom, highland, ca

And yet, is it not the continuing overpopulation of countries which is reducing food stocks and water supplies for everyone? This one ever increasing problem that will eventually destroy humankind is the one problem that no one wants to point out?

China are dealing with their food shortage and overpopulation by limiting families. "What about human rights!" I hear you activists say. What use are human rights when the world will turn to tribal warfare over food and water supplies if this continues? Or what use are human rights without humans? Activists these days are becoming more a part of the problem than the solution and your actually helping the downfall of humankind.

If you were born with AIDS would you enjoy your life? Maybe, but is it not cruel and inhuman to bring into existence something that will die a horrible death in a few short years? The same can be said for death by starvation or dehydration. All 3 are already happening in Africa.

Food for thought...

Graeme, Edinburgh,

Killing an innocent human being is morally wrong.
The unborn child is an innocent, human being.
Abortion is the deliberate killing of an innocent human being.
Therefore, abortion is morally wrong.
What is morally wrong cannot be politically correct.
Advocates of slavery and abortion (or "choice") justify their actions by denying the personhood of the slaves or foetuses. The pro-abortion movement describes unborn children as "products of conception" and "blobs of tissue"; they talk of a woman's right to terminate her pregnancy, but not kill her child or even abort her foetus. To protect this untenable position pictures of abortions are censored on the grounds of "taste and decency". We all accept that murder, rape and child abuse should be illegal. There are cases where morality should be legislated for to protect human rights of the vulnerable. Abortion is not a women's issue, a religious issue, or a medical is a human rights issue.

Steve Vogt, London, UK

Is this serious... abortion a moral abomination? And to suggest that to feel bad about having an abortion means it must be an immoral procedure, is quite frankly absurd... It is a process of stopping life, in the same way as not approaching that girl you fancy in a bar is, and therefore not having children with her etc. It is irrational social conditioning and articles like this that make women feel guilty for aborting what is essentially a bunch of cells which COULD turn into a baby. I'm fully expecting this author to suggest that contraception and masturbation should be outlawed next... think of all the children they've "killed."

Freddie, London, UK

So bringing an unwanted child into the world after nine months of altruistic pregnancy is better. Get real Gerard. You will never have to make that choice as you aren't the one who will have to carry the baby. Life is messy and not everyone is cut out to be a parent. Perhaps it is more responsible to give serious thought to when one has or doesn't have a child. Motherhood is not the only life a woman can have, worthy as it may be. The idea of "parent altruistic, childless selfish doesn't hold water. Let every woman's choice be respected. If she decides to have the baby she should receive all the necessary support and if not she should not be called selfish by anyone, much less a man. She is the one who will have to bear the child. For men the issue is more abstract.

Mar Delbol, Barcelona, Spain

Whilst I can understand the difficult times that any woman facing abortion can face, the pro-choice lobby conveniently forgets that abortion involves the taking of a human life- one that did not ask to be created. My wife had a miscarriage 11 years ago at 7 weeks gestation- one of the first things that medical staff did was to try to find the embryo's heartbeat. This for a 7-week old foetus. To my mind, a heartbeat is a definite sign of life....

Colin Macgregor, Paisley, Scotland

I must say that I enjoyed this article, but not because I agree with it. Instead i enjoyed watching as the author slowly abandoned his pretence of writing about Hollywood attitudes and came round to broadcasting his own.

That abortion represents "taking a life" is in no way "obvious". Neither is it the easy choice. Similarly, opting to keep the baby is not "inherently good and self denying". In some cases it is the easy choice, the do nothing choice, the "if I wait long enough the decision will be made for me" choice. Sometimes it is the ultimate abdication of responsibility. Choosing to have an abortion takes courage not because it is murder, but because a welcome child is wonderful and to give that up is hard. Equally, an unwanted child may be subject to years of abuse and resentment, a fact the pro-choice lobby refuses to acknowledge.

While I will never have to have an abortion, I think that in many cases there is only one sensible option. But that doesn't make it an easy one.

James Torrance, London,

THe most memorable on screen abortion in film history is in the movie "Alfie". The shame on Alfie's face when he says "I murdered him" is something I'll never forget.

Jim, Chicago, IL USA

Excellent article.

Julia, London, UK

The question is of a personal choice. Every circumstance is different. Some women will be haunted by their choices and some won't, however you can't tell them what to feel.

Why is the moral responsibility of having a baby being dumped on a women. I don't see anyone talking about lynching the men who indiscriminately dump their cells.

Abortion is not something new which has come about in the modern times. Its been done in the society for the past few thousand years. I don't think it is justified for the modern society to tell the individual what they should do with their bodies. It is called freedom of choice and it needs to be applied equally not collectively or selectively.

SB, London,

Incest and rape are serious crimes, and men who are guilty of those crimes should be severely punished. But a child conceived as a result of incest or rape is just as innocent a human being as any other unborn child, and just as deserving of the full protection of the law. One can weep for a victim of incest or rape, but one does not compensate her by killing her unborn child.

Michael Ryan, Melbourne, Australia / Victoria

Jill, I was empowered by having one. It was sad, but the right choice, and I'm grateful I had that choice.

CiderHouse Rules and Vera Drake both showed abortion as a humane option, and those offering it as decent people. Nobody wants to see a film about an individual's abortion, because it is inherently, as an act, a denial of sentimental hope - plus not much of a tale. "Woman has abortion, gets on with her life." Nobody would want to see a film about the harsh, grinding realities of poverty-stricken single motherhood either; that situation is unvaryingly shown as redemptive and a triumph of the human spirit. .

Olivia Lee, London, UK

Why do hysterical (invariably) men always come back to the late abortion objection?

RRR, we are not just talking about 23-week old babies, who indeed as you say, look like babies/human beings and not just foetuses. However, when it is a blob of cells or even in the vague form of a baby, but still with no possible ability to live beyond the Mother's womb, it is not a separate entity.

How can anyone seriously argue that the needs of a few cells with no separate function should come before those of a fully grown human female?

And yes, in a ideal world contraception would be 100% effective and rape wouldn't happen. But I'd concentrate on making these things a reality before attacking a woman's rights over her own body.

VC, London,

Why then as a society we do not have the right framework - and obviously pay without complain the necessary taxes - in order to support women of ANY age that fall pregnant?

All these hypocrites who are against pregnancy, how will they react if their young daughter falls pregnant? Will they support her lovingly??

Basil, Cambridge,

This article points out a reality - abortion is not a happy event. Mothers brag about their doctor child, not their abortionist one.

I am pro-life but I am also pro-choice - I believe women who are ready to have sex are also responsible enough to use birth control. So are the men they have sex with.

Women have choices -if you don't want a baby, and can't deal with abstention, USE BIRTH CONTROL. This is also important if you don't want to catch an STD - it's amazing how many "empowered" women can't tell the guy to put on a condom! Honey, if you are too scared to tell him to wear a condom to protect yourself from contracting a horrible disease, you are not ready for sex.

I am ok with abortion to protect the life of the mother, btw, and in cases of rape. Though with the rape victim, I'd rather have the rapist pay for all the woman's medical bills, her therapy bills, and all expenses associated with the baby if she chooses to have it.

Shefali, Wichita Falls, TX, USA

So why weren't my comments published.? Was it because I was pointing out the inaccuracies of the first paragraph? (i.e. the feel good movies in the box office aren't an abberation right now, those are usually the ONLY kinds of movies during summer. They trot out the "searing indictments" during Oscar season. Those movies haven't gone anywhere.)

Second, Hollywood hasn't chosen to do anything. The movie Knocked Up is not a "searing indictment" of abortion. It's a sweet comedy, but the biggest laughs wouldn't have existed if she got an abortion. I've seen other people try to twist this movie into some kind of affirmation for pro-life. Hardly true. Pro-CHOICE is about CHOICE. Heigl's character CHOSE to have the baby. Nothing about pro-choice tells women they MUST get an abortion.

I just felt this article is making a mountain out of a molehill in some desperate attempt to prove a point.

E, CO, U.S.

Just because a woman gets pregnant before she is ready to have a family does not mean that she needs to have an abortion.

What about placing the child for adoption? Many couples would love to adopt a child but there are no babies out there. These couples are often willing to pay the medical expenses for the woman & child during the pregnancy.

Adoption is a choice too.

Susan, Port Orchard, USA/WA

Lots of women are left heart broken over nature's miscarriages nevermind induced abortions. Personally I wasn't that badly affected by my miscarriages, it was almost like someone or something else has decided to end those so there wasn't much to comtemplate or feel guilt over. My abortion was agonising in every way. It is a deeply invasive, unnatural procedure after which you are left minus one healthy foetus and with bloody awful cramps. It isn't a GOOD thing. We're expecting women to go through this for what? So we don't burden the public purse? So our partners aren't inconvenienced? So we don't disappoint our boss? The very fact that we see abortion as a necessity we can't live without and yet don't like to talk about much because most KNOW it's unethical suggests to me society is no less depraved now than it ever was.

So as always we women will bite our lips and be the martyrs but I ask you, to what end? How many must we kill before we're free?

Trisha, Kidderminster,

Early abortion is only 'soul-destroying' if you are a silly woman that feeds off drama. As for all this 'if it is simply a clump of cells, then why?' idiocy, well, it is just a clump of cells.

My body 'aborts' the potential for life every month -- there's blood, clumps and cramps every month. And its not much different to what I experienced when I had a 12 week miscarriage (about the time most women would have an abortion). So why are you trying to tell me, you Gerard, that something I have experienced and understood is inaccurate, that you, someone who will never truly understand what it means to have these occurances in your body, knows better than I?

Why are you trying to tell me that my body can choose to terminate a pregnancy, through miscarriage, but my mind cannot?

Alex, Leeds, Uk

I was saddened to see that with so many different points of view expressed, no one picked up on a simple fact; if a foetus is less of a human being than a six months old baby, then a a six months old baby is less of a human being than his parents - say two 18 years old. And presumably they themselves would have a less valuable life than a 36 years old? A palpable nonsense.

Whatever makes a woman's pregancy wrong is unlikely to have disappeared after the baby's birth; are we then saying that whatever made the pregnancy wrong justifies infanticide?

I would also challenge the idea propounded by Kato, Oxford, that large numbers of abortions mean women lose little sleep over it; if that were the case, we would be living in a society where murder - the voluntary taking of life as opposed to letting nature get rid of a foetus if it sees fit to - is a morally acceptable form of contraception.

And I simply cannot accept that.

Lydia, Reading

LYDIA , READING, UK

I have a close friend who assisted his daughter to commit suicide (she was 22) Of course what he did was wrong in theory, however his personal circumstances were such that it would be a hard man who condemned him for his actions. I see abortion in a similar light, however the difference seems to be that in their efforts to support vunerable people facing difficult circumstances, pro choice advocates miss out the point that killing is fundamentally wrong.

J Davey, Brighton, UK

Prevention is better than cure isn't it Gerard?

Oh, wait, the man you pray with doesn't believe that either does he...

D. Kemp, Miami.,

Spoken like a true idealogue catholic you are Gerard.
A true product of your religous and social upbringing.

How about you and your kind, especially the men, keeping your noses out of other people's buisness, respecting the law, and leaving this sensitive issue to a woman and her doctor.

G.Green, London.,

Seems to miss the most obvious answer (not suprising for soemone who has an agenda and wants to claim everyone else in 'support' of it).

It is just more comedic or dramatic to have a long pregnancy's worth of moments on screen than a quick and easy abortion. It's the same reason they didn't use birth controlin these movies eitehr - not because they are in favor of spreading disease.

Avi, washington, dc

The sheer number of comments that the topic of abortion provokes shows how strongly people feel on both sides of the debate. The fact that the law is currently in favour of the pro-abortionists, and is unlikely to change, ones wonders why they then still feel the need to constantly justify their position.

What are they worried about? Is it perhaps that by continually banging on about 'their rights', they hope it might just convince those of us who see the life of a baby either side of birth as just as valid, to come round to their point of view. Perhaps they just can't bear anyone actually suggesting to them that killing a baby is morally wrong, so have to continually re-assert their tired views!

Maybe those who disagee with Gerard Baker and think that slavery was worse than abortion, think that fox hunting is far worse than abortion too.

Alexandra , Bedford, UK

Good column. It took courage to say this.

Bill, Fredericksburg, Va

Why is the taking of a life under 16 weeks legal, but killing that same featus 40 weeks later murder, it's the same child, well said Mr Baker, everyone knows abortion is wrong , and every woman who has one, always wonders what if...

Uche Gerorge, London , England

I really don't care about the article. However, it is strange for a European to know the ramifications of the "Mason Dixon Line" while a good many Americans would not know any European analog of that geopolitical line.

Bill Hensler, Holt, USA/Michigan

The American movie business always cares about the message they are sending, and though Hollywood might be liberal, they are still quite religious (which often contradicts their liberal outlook).

Making a movie that said abortion was ok could almost be perceived as an advertisement for it, which is unliklely to get a consensus of backers at the studios. When making a recipe for a commercial hit, controversy of that type was probably not high on the list of issues to address.

Also, since the religious "may god have mercy" commentors always leave such totally predictable replies to every article, can they consider not posting and just assume we already have an idea of their moral indignation? Since you all think the same, it would save space for people who have an opinion of their own.

Andy, seattle, usa

To Tom from Belfast particularly

I have two very close friends who have had abortions and neither of them are remotely "scarred" by it. They were (and still are for that matter) too emotionally and financially unfit to be mothers *yet* and they made by far the right choice. For themselves and their potential babies and therefore for all of us.

And to Colleen, do you think there enough couples wanting to be "blessed" to house every single one of the subjects of abortions every year?!

If you state that abortio is the killing of a child with regard for how advanced the pregnancy then you must eventually arrive back at the point where the morning after pill is definitely murder and all contraception is wrong as well. Where will it all end I ask you?

With women enslaved to their biology and the patriarchal hypocritical society which would seek to keep them firmly tied to the nursery.

Woman are not baby making machines. It is a woman's right to chose whether to be one.

VC, London,

That assertion has taken the place of considered argument is cause for concern. But that Hollywood *films* are being offered as a moral barometer beggars belief! I haven't laughed so hard in quite some time.

Fortunately not all of us are possessed of such moral absolutism.

Oliver, Cambridge,

This is nonsense. How can anyone argue, in an age where world population is approaching 7 billion and the planet is going to hell in a hand-basket from ecological collapse, that there is anything noble or necessary or unselfish in encumbering the world with yet another unwanted child? The vast majority of women who have abortions do not in fact "agonize" over the decision. Recent attempts by the Religious Right to prove that abortion "harms women" by turning then away from their divinely ordained function as foetus incubators keep foundering on the sheer weight of medical evidence proving that women who have had abortions are no more depression or suicide-prone than anyone else.

Of course Hollywood's failure to show abortion in a positive light is nothing beyond market-driven cowardice. With over half of the US population overweight, Hollywood doesn't even have the courage to show a fat person in a positive light!

Artemisia, Paris, France

It's likely that the fact that there are a large amount of films / tv shows etc. that show the choice being made to allow an unplanned pregnancy to continue is due to the increased potential for drama this brings.

In terms of a story, abortion is a simplistic, almost redundant solution (unless you want to explore certain specific ideas). Comparing this to the amount of potential for conflict that having the child can create leaves no suprise that the later option is much prefered by writers.

This 'could' be considered as supporting the arguement for abortion where the circumstances of the parents are difficult / not suited to raising a child.

Chris, Derby, UK

How can doing the "good and moral and honourable thing" possibly involve bringing an unwanted child into the world? Moral and honourable people ensure that they only carry a child to term when there is a loving place for them.
Furthermore, the comparison to slavery is untenable - Mr. Baker obviously put that in his article to shore up his weak arguments.
How about this - millions of unwanted children stuck in a life of poverty (studies show that children born into families where one parent has left because he didn't want to be a parent are in proverty by a far greater proportion than otherwise) - now that's slavery.
Finally, if you don't think that Hollywood - in spite of its seemingly left-wing population - is a tool for political propaganda, maybe you haven't been watching. Examples about of pro-US, anti-French, etc etc messages abound. An industry that increasingly profits from cynical product placements isn't exactly in a position to deliver pro-choice messages.

S Madsen, London, UK

I see you've tarred abortion as bad, immoral and dishonourable, there. Nice going.

There's nothing inherently good about being self-denying. I don't want to live in a world full of frustrated people, and I don't thank you for promoting this. If it were possible that, say, Churchill in wartime (or Einstein, or Edison) were to suddenly find himself pregnant, it would not be moral of him to choose to abandon his great work and keep the baby. Women, too, sometimes have great work to get on with that is unrelated to procreation, if you can imagine that.

What motivates you to confuse fetuses with children?

I suspect you of sexism. Another possibility is mysticism, of the "every sperm is sacred" variety; or perhaps you're just associating burdensome suffering with morally upright behaviour. If you're going to use that rule of thumb (as far too many people habitually do), we could take it a great deal further, with hair shirts for all and so forth.

Felix, Nottingham,

It is a myth that women who have an abortion invariably will come to regret it. More often than not, women who decide to abort a fetus regard child bearing and rearing as a responsibility, not as a mere obligation or a rite of passage. Such an individual will always wait until she has the means and a full confidence in her ability to rear children before bringing forth a new person into this world. Populist movies notwithstanding, being a parent at the wrong time of one's life is slavery -- and being born to such a parent is hell indeed.

fsutaria, Bangalore, India.

Is this journalism or soapbox oratory? To say that abortion is 'expedient and selfish' while having a baby is 'inherently good' is naive moral absolutism that turns a blind eye to real world realities. I have a good friend who had an abortion and, believe me, it wasn't an 'expedient and selfish' decision.

thomg, copenhagen, denmark

Abortion does not appear in films because Hollywood cinema demands a happy ending. This is why movies end with the hero riding into the sunset, or a big frothy wedding. That does not mean that we have to live our lives by the model of Hollywood cinema--it is not meant to teach us about the ambiguity and sorrow of real life. Especially in the case of abortion, which is a complex and wrenching subject.

The comparison with slavery is especially grotesque--and inept--in that it seems to go against his own argument. In his utopian future, will women be forced to carry pregnancies and bear children happily, without regret or pain, just like in the movies?

S. L., Los Angeles, CA

I wish that journalists in America had the courage to take a stand on this issue as you did here. I found your article inspiring, and I pray it gets the attention it deserves. Thank you for being unashamed of taking a stand for something right in a world obsessed with all that is wrong. If no one else admires your honesty, know that you touched the heart of a young girl half way around the world.

Serenity Johnson, Yuma, Arizona

Keep your faith and your nose out of other people's problems. It's between a woman and her doctor.

Better still, what about preaching about free birth control for all, to prevent abortion in the first place.

Or, don't you believe in that too?

G.S.Dent., London.,

Well thought out piece. However, i do not beleive that abortion is worse than slavery. In my opinion, they are both morally wrong but in the case of slavery the after effects of slavery has transcended through generations and has thus created a multitude of second class citizens worldwide who due to slavery have no incline as to their roots, culture or history.

ose okpeku, cardiff, united kingdom

Advances in medicine are forcing society to see the fetus as a human not just a clump of cells. As Gerard Baker says society has turned a blind eye on this rational conclusion but deep down we all know there is no such thing as a magic time when the fetus becomes a person. In Britain, abortion is legal until 24 weeks fetal gestation- but nearly half of babies born at this time will survive. Medicine will continue to force on us the reality that abortion ends a human life, as ultrasound and research takes us back closer to conception. We now know that maternal stress can affect a fetus as early as 17 weeks. How stressful must a direct attack be to the fetus! We must not forget we were all single-celled humans at one point.

Patrick Pullicino, canterbury,

Thank you. If a woman shoots herself, its pretty unpleasant, but its her choice because its her life. Her child's life is not her own. Killing a child 4 months before he was born is not different from killing him 4 months after he was born. I do realise that many women will say that for a man, it is easy to say all this as he is not the one who will be responsible for the child, but if you maintain this approach, than no man will ever take responsability. End of argument.

John, London,

I've met three different women who have undergone abortions. All, by their own admission, are mentally scarred by it. It really does go against nature.

Tom, Belfast,

Fairy tale gets a make over: you get drunk, have sex with a perfect stranger, condon breaks, ignore the possible consequences and are forced enter adulthood by becoming a mother. The slob is really a prince underneath and you will be a family, cut to happy ending. In real life, plenty of children, unloved, abused and in foster care are born this way. This is escapism for people who believe dead people are collateral damage. Abortion is terrible but so is believing fairy tales and not taking responsibility for your sexuality.

D, london, u.k

Why should the baby, innocent of any crime, be punished for the rape? No matter how horrendous the circumstances, the baby will still be half the mother...give that little innocent one 9 months of your life and then bless another couple rather than add to the tragedy of a rape if keeping the child would be too hard.

Colleen, Warroad, MN, USA

I believe that abortion is the termination of a human life, albeit in its earliest stages. I also believe that a woman has a right to do it. When chose to abort my first pregnancy, many years ago, I knew that I would be a poor and unhappy single mother and a burden to my family and society. Because I delayed childbearing until I was older, I am a happy, married mother who contributes to society and is materially secure enough to provide my children with a good start in life. I have never regretted my choice, and I feel that if one considers all factors, I did what was morally correct.

Kat, Los Angeles, California

Hear Hear!

Steve, Lethbridge, C

Mr Baker, an excellent article that hit the nail squarely and firmly on the head. It doesn't take a great deal of contemplation before one arrives the puzzling and otherwise inexplicable contrast of feelings between eager parents and unwilling ones. If the eager parents exitement most often stems from the inate realization that a life has been created and is being nurtured then how can it be so easily disregarded by the unwilling? Sadly though I'm not sure it will go the way of slavery and the probable truth is that many women might also be severly injured or die from misguided illegal abortions. A very sad situation all around.

Richard, Woodham, UK

I think the issue of abortion, especially when it is executed in the absence of a clearly identifiable medical requirement, is predominantly chracterised by a conscious desire to avoid discussing it. This can only suggest the presence of a multitude of moral pitfalls associated with 'unnecessary', and I am hesistant to use that word, abortions. It is a collective failure of society at large when an issue of such importance is conveniently overlooked.

Mr M Ali, London,

The argument given is thus - that because hollywood does not properly deal with the issue, it means that it reflects the viewpoint of a society.

So just as hollywoods refusal to deal with abortion means that we abhor it, hollywood's depiction of brits means we are all bumbling or super-villains. This is argument by anecdote!

The fact is that the baby is a parasite on the mother and has no intrinsic right to life. Our nature mean we nurture our young, but they have no natural right to it.

D, London, UK

Firstly, how many of the nearly 200 000 abortions carried out in Britain each year are as a result of rape or incest?
Secondly, these people concerned about over population -why don't THEY make the ultimate sacrifice for 'Mother Earth' and just do away with themselves? If there's not enough room here then why shouldn't YOU be the one to make some room?

L Grundy, Liverpool, Great Britain

We are have lucky to have some amazing birth control methods in this country, and unwanted pregnancies still occur. Accidents happen; to teenage girls, to professional women, to women who think their childbearing years are over and everyone else in betweeen, and the vast majority of of women do agonise over their decision.

I would consider that the "good and moral and honorable thing" would be not to bring a child into the world when the parent(s) are not financial or emotionally