I must respectfully take issue with Mr. Starling comment directed at Mr. Taylor. Mr. Starling pointedly sugests that Mr. Taylor check "the gun crime statistics in your own country." With all due respect, perhaps Mr. Starling should do the same.
The crime rates for virturally every area of crime except murder are in fact much higher in the U.K. than they are in the United States. (At least the American murder rate is declining while the British one continues to rise.) Within in the United States it has been shown that if high rates of gun ownership rarely mean higher crime rates and in some cases may even translate into lower crime rates.
The state of British crime rates today makes it dramatically clear that taking guns away from law abiding citizens doesn't take them away from criminals.

Gillette, Golden,

"There is no great flood of illegal guns into the country"
So where are they coming from ? Press and TV pictures of "seized guns" show modern weapons (Glocks etc), not relics of past wars. It was an article of assertion if not faith in the past that criminal guns originated with lawful owners. That cannot be possible now that the law-abiding are disarmed. So, I ask again, where are the illegal guns coming from if not from abroad ?

David Lewis, Burnham, UK

Stop all immigration .
Have dedicated border guards(bring our troops home from Iraq to help do this.
Increase prison sentences for gun possession
Build more prisons.
But most of all give people in these deprived areas some hope in life with better education , decent jobs and housing paid for with a better distribution of wealth especially in London , plus the cost saving of not fighting illegal wars .

bas, Nottingham, England

Having read the contributions so far to this column, I find that nobody has mentioned the question of deterrence. As a pensioner I remember the days of the patrolling police force. It worked. It was an act of incredible folly to replace it with police car patrols, since these simply carry out the task of crime detection - they have no deterrent effect whatever. A police car is simply another car on the road: nobody pays the slightest scrap of attention, whilst the bobby on the beat is a unique figure who commands attention. The gun crime that is happening now is a dreadful attempt on the part of youngsters to secure self-defence, which in previous generations was provided by the bobby on the beat. In an age when salaries for everyone have gone up, it will naturally cost us more than it did in the 1950's to have a patrolling police force, but meeting the cost would be a considerably better option than having teenagers murder each other with guns.

Edmund Burke, Kingston upon Thames, England

"The study also provides some evidence that the strict gun control laws introduced after Dunblane are at least doing something towards the growth in gun killings. "

What evidence? Gun killings are up, illegal gun prices have fallen. The Home Office itself admitted to me last year that there is in fact no evidence at all that UK gun laws improve public safety. How does removing weapons from law-abiding citizens impact on inner city drug dealers? If you're suggesting that somehow guns used to find their way from the legal market to the illegal, forget it. There's no evidence at all to support that idea either.

The idea that "gun control" laws work is a chattering class fantasy, and the sooner that's realised the sooner we can start following policies that might genuinely save innocent lives. Or is dogma more important?

Alex Swanson, Milton Keynes, UK

My goodness, Mr Taylor from the USA, have you checked the gun crime statistics in your own country lately?

starling, Lancaster,

Why are these "Idiots" only reducing the ciminal age to 17 when it is obvious to any Sane person it should be 15 or even less.National Service is imperative.Just because the Majority of "Them"had no military service doesnt give "Them" the right to deny others.


Why do you not "remember" me !

derek bevan, Huntingdon/Cambs , England

Several people have commented that a "lack of a suitable father figure " is a major factor at work. This may or may not be true, but assuming it is what do you intend to do about it? Statements such as you should "support marriage" are meaningless unless you say how. If you mean by offering financial inducements how much do you offer. Would say £1000 per year encourage someone to marry a person they didn't love, or bring up a child they didn't want? The moralising about "single parents" or "poor male role models" is nice, but ultimately achieves nothing. Attacking these individuals for wanting respect by wearing expensive clothing is a supremely ridiculous position, isn't that what the fashion world is about, doesn't the culture we've created value people for their wealth or success. The fact that these same drives can be seen in criminal culture should surprise no-one. There are solutions but they will demand deeper thought, commitment and dedication to succeed.

Thomas Davies, London, UK

Once again the 'solution' is worse than the problem before. England is now #16 in dangerous Western Society. Arm the civlians! There will be some trouble at first, but crooks soon learn. It is still LEGAL to own a gun in the UK. Look up the Bill of Rights 1688-Arms for their Defence'. As the lady in Shrewsbury said, if we don't have them , the bad guys will. Does anyone think that crooks buy their gune leagally/. Yes, I do have a gun permit, and I was trained in safety procedures. More people in the US are saved by just waving a gun than any other form of self defence. Is Mace banned in the UK? Is there still a 3 day waiting period for kitchen knives? Maybe you can see your problem. The elites who come up with these stupid laws, I can guarantee are nowhere near where the action/bad guys are. Now there is a suprise.!!!!!

Desmond Taylor, Houston, Tx USA

If drug prices are falling then the market is more competitive and frictions will arise. Gangs will vie for market dominance.

The reason that respect is such an issue is that, in a 'meritocracy', there is an underclass of second class citizens who have nothing to lose and are seething with resentment.

Martyn Baker, Bethnal Green, London

I suspect we are at the final crossroads now. Like it or not, the burgeoning tide of immigration, coupled with the wholly inadequate education system in this country has left our youngsters very little hope. Couple that with the culture of a Government who thinks that benefits, instead of hard work, lift people out of poverty and you have a receipe for disaster. For a generation growing up with the cultural influences of "respect" and "bling" which is easily bought (or so they think) from the barrel of a gun, then you have a generation doubly lost. Constant claims by the Government that there are hundreds of thousands of jobs unfilled, and constant comparisons with the "much harder working" Eastern European workforce (the justification for allowing such huge numbers in totally escapes me) and you have young people inclined to live down to the lazy reputation that they have, probably unfairly, garnered.

SarahJane, London, England

I agree with John in London. If we import large numbers of ex-soldiers as refugees from war zones where they have been engaged in brutal civil wars, is it really any surprise that they soon find their military training and combat experience is their most marketable skill?

Desmond Persaud, Wimbledon, London,

Just to address John from London's comment regarding low IQ in black people. Yes John there have been some studies that show lower average IQ in Blacks, however all of these are flawed because the old experiments focussed on black people in African communities, for whom Western IQ tests were not originally designed, and hence the measure was at fault. More recently, demographics and a history of bigotry have kept blacks from obtaining full Western educations. Look around your office - what's the ratio? 50:50? I doubt it. So your argument for a genetically low IQ I'm afraid is simply wrong and totally without basis.

With regard the testosterone debate, I think you have an interesting and stronger case.

Richard Sarsfield, London, England

Sure, if you convert a replica to fire live ammo, you have often made not a gun but a hand grenade, and serve you right.

However if the price of criminal guns has fallen and allegedly, there is no flood of imports, that suggests the illegal market is probably flooded.

To claim that, 10 years after the post-Dunblane bans, those bans finally worked is stretching the evidence to breaking point.

Jeff Wood, Stirling, Scotland

Liberals.... you can't blame the law abiding, kickable minority of the community that formerly legally held handguns for contributing to "gun culture" (even though they never did) so start beating the drum about video games and television, looking for something else to ban. To top that off, there's the comments about the USA. New England has the highest gun ownership per capita- check the crime rates there before spouting.
If every offensive weapon was removed from the UK the criminals comitting these acts would still be murdering each other with fists, rocks and pointed sticks. The fact of the matter is that there is no deterrent to crime- conditions in prisons are better than those the "criminal classes" have at home. Ever hear of the stick and carrot method? The UK is now home of the "liberal carrot & carrot/don't smack method" of discipline and the evidence that it doesn't work will probably be mugging you at gunpoint fairly soon. Ye shall reap what ye have sown....

Pete North, manchester, UK

It seems this is getting blown out of proportion. Are there not many more people killed and injured in road traffic accidents? If we want to make britain safer perhaps we should instigate regular retesting of drivers and seize vehicles used during motoring offenses.

tod, Fin,

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarms only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes."

- Thomas Jefferson

John, London,

I think a major factor is the young age many girls are having children. Teenagers should be actively encouraged to have children when they are older - through reward for long-term 'depo' contraceptives or being penalised through the welfare system. Mothers in their 20s are more emotionally mature and experienced. Financial rewards would encourage young people to get married and consequently improve the chances of young fathers taking a significant role in bringing up their children.

dan, London,

A major reason for not telling the police about incidents is the perception that the police are unlikely to do anything useful about it anyway. If there was a good chanceof the police achieving anything and if they also were to be trusted with keeping the indentities of informants secret and if they were to be trusted to be able to protect informants from reprisals - maybe more incidents would be reported. I am a middle class white person who has had first hand knowledge of being let down by the police - so I can see why a black person with a less than perfect background may hesitate or even refuse to deal with them. It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that a person reporting a crime may find themselves arrested for some minor offence and the reported crime be left undealt with.Confidence in the police is at an all time low. The only people who still have confidence in them are those who are fortunate enough not to have to engage with them in a time of need.

michele, Wales,

To Mr Wilder: Our gun control sure beats what you have over there - the number of deaths we're talking about wouldn't even register on the radar over in the States...

Geoff Munt, South Croydon,

Its a cliché I know but still very true non the less that when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.

Andy Myers, Shrewsbury, England

The rise is non-fatal shootings is probably down to improved medical care as much as being a function of the youth of the shooters. In the first part of this decade, the experience gained by doctors Homerton A&E in Hackney in treating gunshot wounds led to a much increased survival rate.

Simon, London,

Forgive me for being silly, but I thought the banning of the private ownership of guns, was supossed to have put a stop to all this?
As it obviously did not work, can I have my gun back now please?
A gun that was kept very secure and was NEVER used in anything LIKE a crime.
By someone, who contrary to being involved in crime has been a Military AND civil police man for most of his LAW ABIDING life.
Yet it was taken off me.
I am so happy to hear that my loss was not in vain.

Ragnar Vagmornasson, Berlin , Preussen/Germany

Same old problem - a politician said "Ban the <whatever> and we'll reduce <a problem>". When it doesn't happen, we are told it will just cost a little more money so we'll just sneak in some taxes to pay for it. Perhaps we should pay our politicians by result. Profit related schemes work elsewhere, so why not pay politicians on the results of their pronouncements? Using the total of fatal and non-fatal shootings quoted above and extending that to the country as a whole (I know, the numbers need more work, but you let the politicos away with it!) that means a 31% increase in shootings. Why not apply that as a reduction in pay to all MP's and see how well that focuses their attention on a real solution?

KR, Stockport,

It´s the wages that governs the amount of crime
you can expect. Can´t ordinary employers keep the youngsters busy then the whole society will suffer.

Strix, NYHAMNSLAGE, sWEDEN

I view the rise in gun-related crime as a direct consequence of the legislation following the Dumblane massacre. Unfortunately, banning something doesn't stop it from happening. Before then, you needed a license to own a hand-gun, and the police knew where most of the guns were. Now it is easier and cheaper than ever to buy a gun on the black market, and nobody knows where they are.

The guns that remain in circulation are now almost exclusively in the hands of dangerous criminals, who are further emboldened by the reduced chance of being confronted by an armed citizen protecting his/her property.

Edward Bullen, Birmingham,

Fred, do you have any statistics to show that prison not only works as a deterrent, but as a rehabilitative response? Because thats all prison is, a response, nothing more.

Tom, Bristol, UK

The old saying, "Disarm the honest citizen and you arm the criminal", has ben proven correct since Blair's 1997 handgun ban when he claimed to have taqken all guns off the streets.

Michael Boughton-Fox, Cambridge, England

The diet of short american crime movies on television may help to condition the young to accept shooting events as a routine life experience.

Some popular computer video games such as 'Grand Theft Auto' may have a normalising effect on criminal behaviour, where this is built in to the premises of the 'game.' If the game assumes that the 'normal' goal is to steal cars, it must be ok. innit.

Just as games played by developing young predatory animals are learning and practice events for the skills they will need to deploy later in order to survive, so games played by children may have relevance to their thoughts and deeds as they become adults. Although most adults no longer run about in feathered headgear with bows and arrows, that's probably because it's so yesterday. As in 19th century wild west. Modern games have timely relevance and fashion appeal.

We may need more games suitable for a sunday school setting.

dr venables preller, Warminster, UK

Operation Trident is for gun crime in London's Black community. It doesn't matter if it's the UK, US, South Africa or Canada, there's a Black crime problem, but it can't be said because of political correctness. Black people are 2% of the UK's population, based on the crime reports of shootings, muggings and rapes one would think the UK had a far higher Black population. Why not focus specifically on Black crime - Operation Trident is clearly not enough. Do Black people have a higher genetic predisposition to this kind of criminal behaviour ? They have a lower average IQ than whites and black males have a higher average testosterone level than white males - that combination may account for their higher criminality. Give a white male anabolic steroids and increased testosterone - does aggression and violent behaviour increase ? Yes it does, which is why genetics must be considered in addressing this Black crime problem.

John, London,

Jail alone is not the answer, we have doubled people in prison sonce Howard was at the Home Office - and crime has soared. Look at the American gulag where one third of black males have prison recordsand they have the highest incarceration rates in the world. Does that solve crime? Hell no. unfortunately the ethnic mo9norities in the UK are aping their American cousins as so often happens in our sadly derivative culture. Too bad we cant roll back globalisation. In its absence I agree we have to do something to support families and reduce the pdependency culture that has become endemic with Brownite revolution..

oldasiahand, Guildford, Surrey

I am a working class south east Londoner, growing up in the sixties on a Camberwell council estate. We used to walk into Brixton to the shops, a trip of over a mile. Along the way my mum would stop to chat to people she knew, or relatives, and it was a settled, orderly community at ease with itself and, in my era, bursting with potential for a young generation keen to get on in life. Yes, there were gangsters (some of the most notorious in the country at that time), but that was a choice very few made. Now, however, there is nothing but fracture and discord. The council estates seem overwhelmingly packed with recent immigrants, and the 'nicer' private roads have been colonised by transient provincial professionals with no connection with the area other than the temporary occupation of a property taken purely for the purpose of working in central London. Result? A dangerous vacuum where a wholly spurious 'respect' has replaced the real one that we had in spades.

Mike Collins, London, UK

Mr wilder: Guns are controlled for hobbyists, farmers, and collectors. Not for criminals.

R Mason, London, UK

Complexity is increasingly becoming an every day term; however, what is evident is that it is not understood. Faced with massive complexity government displays intellectual paralysis, relying on cliché based rhetoric; this is not the answer. There is no validity in treating these complex problems which display the law of unintended consequences as cause-effect. Clausewitz 200 yrs ago observed: everything is simple, but it’s the simple things that are difficult – they combine which inevitably result in more significant and unforeseen consequences. Dörner observes that: people with good intentions usually have few qualms about pursuing their goals. As a result, incompetence that would have otherwise have remained harmless often becomes dangerous…We elect political leaders to power - which in physics is a scalar quantity i.e. without direction; in the expectation they will have the wisdom to perceive which direction to take. Research shows that government has no desire to actually understand complexity which pervades all our lives. The next time you are told that this is a complex problem you should ask, how do you know?

Christopher Bean, Wrexham, Wales

We do have very strict gun control in Britain.

But unfortunately "gun control" only controls legally-held guns.

Criminals don't respect "gun control" laws any more than they do other laws.

Giles Toman, London, England

Seems that the 'Message T-shirts and leaflet campaign ' groups will gradually increase the drip drip of taking all responsibility away from the 'community' in question. The same community that shields its murderers, abandons its children, invests no time or energy in their future wellbeing and cares only about number one.
Always somebody elses fault, preferably non-black.

JP O'Donnell, Falkenberg, Sweden

I disagree that the 'quality' of education is to blame for the level of criminality amongst young black males. As an ex Citizenship teacher I can testify to the fact that the problem lies in the attitude pupils have towards education. If children come to school with the preconception that education is worthless teachers will always be fighting an uphill battle. Home is as equally important as school. I do agree, however, that discipline is most definitely an issue - young people rarely have to face real consequences to their bad behaviour in school and are all to aware of how to 'play' the system. This only carries on once they leave education and enter the 'real' world. The fact is gangs perpetrate crime because they can and they know that, in the main, they can do so without being caught.

Hazel White, Battersea, UK

Until you tackle the quality of education and enhance the aspirations of predominantly working class boys you will not solve these problems - other than, as you suggest, jailing everyone that steps out of line (and you know how successful prison has been in reforming criminals). Unfortunately, there aren’t enough bright, inspirational males around who choose teaching as a career. And those that do are unlikely to choose inner-city schools. I’m reluctant to suggest an increase in salaries to attract the right sort, as such initiatives usually lead to enhancing the pay of the mediocre.

Robert Allen, Greenwich,

The primary cause for the breakdown of law and order amongst teenagers has been government policies instigated during the Tories period of office and followed up by ten years of Labour . Blair and his ministers, instead of correcting the errors made previously have exacerbated those mistakes making a bad situation much much worse. Listening to one of the woman interviewed over the recent killings, she encapsulated the problem in one sentence. These kids have no respect or fear from authority of any form and at the extremes have no compunction about using a gun for trivial reasons. Parents and schools have been stripped of disciplinary powers by the government & Gordon Brown actively taxes against two parent families. His benefits culture rather than benefiting couples living together actually promotes single parent families. Other countries can manage good child care but evidently New Labour lacks the will, the means or even the interest in trying to promote 'tough love' to our kids.

Mike, Denia, Spain

If the legal system is soft you have crime - being liberal just does not work. Prison, hard labour and the death penalty will not stop crime completely but they do deter.
Zero tolerance is the only way but the liberal luvvies will still try to stop real punishment taking place. National Service also helps. Ask any politician to give you their views in writing before voting for them.

Fred, Dubai, Dubai

i thoought you had gun control in Britain.

Marcus Wilder, San Antonio, Texas

The recent sudy pointing out that UK (and USA) children are the worst off amongst wealthy nations is a shocking wake-up call.
Companies, media, and we all bear a heavy responsibility in suggesting to youngsters that hip things and a wealthy live are worth striving for at all cost.
We live in an extremely materialistic and egotistic society, which stimulates and rewards impuslive, ego-centred thinking and behaviour.

bill sulllivan, Bristol, UK

The gun control laws passed after the Dunblane tragedy have greatly encouraged criminals : with the law-abiding effectively disarmed ,the risks to burglars and robbers were and are much reduced - and we daily see the consequences. Not exactly what parliament intended - but then the legislation was always more about emotion than reasoned argument.

David Thomas, Burnham, UK

"doubling of gun crime in a decade since some of the tightest gun-control laws in the world were introduced. "

No surprise at all, it's simply that all the laws in the world won't solve the problem. Why? Because criminals, by definition, disobey the law. The laws merely restrict the law-abiding.

Stan_Expat, USA, USA

Aggressive policing sparked riots in Brixton in 1981 and Broadwater Farm in 1985. As a result a decision was taken that to prevent a recurrence of such events, with the associated negative publicity, the Police would virtually abandon large estates in Central and Inner London to the gangs. We have now had 20 years of this "hands off" policy, and the result is plain to see. Police commanders pursue spurious Whitehall "targets" around "diversity", "equality" and "community outreach", and so on. Meanwhile innocent people are terrorized and the gangs rule the streets.

richard clarke, Chicago , IL, USA