Phyllis Chesler
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From The Times
March 7, 2007
How my eyes were opened to the barbarity of Islam
Is it racist to condemn fanaticism?
Once I was held captive in Kabul. I was the bride of a charming, seductive and Westernised Afghan Muslim whom I met at an American college. The purdah I experienced was relatively posh but the sequestered all-female life was not my cup of chai — nor was the male hostility to veiled, partly veiled and unveiled women in public.
When we landed in Kabul, an airport official smoothly confiscated my US passport. “Don’t worry, it’s just a formality,” my husband assured me. I never saw that passport again. I later learnt that this was routinely done to foreign wives — perhaps to make it impossible for them to leave. Overnight, my husband became a stranger. The man with whom I had discussed Camus, Dostoevsky, Tennessee Williams and the Italian cinema became a stranger. He treated me the same way his father and elder brother treated their wives: distantly, with a hint of disdain and embarrassment.
In our two years together, my future husband had never once mentioned that his father had three wives and 21 children. Nor did he tell me that I would be expected to live as if I had been reared as an Afghan woman. I was supposed to lead a largely indoor life among women, to go out only with a male escort and to spend my days waiting for my husband to return or visiting female relatives, or having new (and very fashionable) clothes made.
In America, my husband was proud that I was a natural-born rebel and free thinker. In Afghanistan, my criticism of the treatment of women and of the poor rendered him suspect, vulnerable. He mocked my horrified reactions. But I knew what my eyes and ears told me. I saw how poor women in chadaris were forced to sit at the back of the bus and had to keep yielding their place on line in the bazaar to any man.
I saw how polygamous, arranged marriages and child brides led to chronic female suffering and to rivalry between co-wives and half-brothers; how the subordination and sequestration of women led to a profound estrangement between the sexes — one that led to wife-beating, marital rape and to a rampant but hotly denied male “prison”-like homosexuality and pederasty; how frustrated, neglected and uneducated women tormented their daughter-in-laws and female servants; how women were not allowed to pray in mosques or visit male doctors (their husbands described the symptoms in their absence).
Individual Afghans were enchantingly courteous — but the Afghanistan I knew was a bastion of illiteracy, poverty, treachery and preventable diseases. It was also a police state, a feudal monarchy and a theocracy, rank with fear and paranoia. Afghanistan had never been colonised. My relatives said: “Not even the British could occupy us.” Thus I was forced to conclude that Afghan barbarism was of their own making and could not be attributed to Western imperialism.
Long before the rise of the Taleban, I learnt not to romanticise Third World countries or to confuse their hideous tyrants with liberators. I also learnt that sexual and religious apartheid in Muslim countries is indigenous and not the result of Western crimes — and that such “colourful tribal customs” are absolutely, not relatively, evil. Long before al-Qaeda beheaded Daniel Pearl in Pakistan and Nicholas Berg in Iraq, I understood that it was dangerous for a Westerner, especially a woman, to live in a Muslim country. In retrospect, I believe my so-called Western feminism was forged in that most beautiful and treacherous of Eastern countries.
Nevertheless, Western intellectual-ideologues, including feminists, have demonised me as a reactionary and racist “Islamophobe” for arguing that Islam, not Israel, is the largest practitioner of both sexual and religious apartheid in the world and that if Westerners do not stand up to this apartheid, morally, economically and militarily, we will not only have the blood of innocents on our hands; we will also be overrun by Sharia in the West. I have been heckled, menaced, never-invited, or disinvited for such heretical ideas — and for denouncing the epidemic of Muslim-on-Muslim violence for which tiny Israel is routinely, unbelievably scapegoated.
However, my views have found favour with the bravest and most enlightened people alive. Leading secular Muslim and ex-Muslim dissidents — from Egypt, Bangladesh, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Pakistan, Syria and exiles from Europe and North America — assembled for the landmark Islamic Summit Conference in Florida and invited me to chair the opening panel on Monday.
According to the chair of the meeting, Ibn Warraq: “What we need now is an age of enlightenment in the Islamic world. Without critical examination of Islam, it will remain dogmatic, fanatical and intolerant and will continue to stifle thought, human rights, individuality, originality and truth.” The conference issued a declaration calling for such a new “Enlightenment”. The declaration views “Islamophobia” as a false allegation, sees a “noble future for Islam as a personal faith, not a political doctrine” and “demands the release of Islam from its captivity to the ambitions of power-hungry men”.
Now is the time for Western intellectuals who claim to be antiracists and committed to human rights to stand with these dissidents. To do so requires that we adopt a universal standard of human rights and abandon our loyalty to multicultural relativism, which justifies, even romanticises, indigenous Islamist barbarism, totalitarian terrorism and the persecution of women, religious minorities, homosexuals and intellectuals. Our abject refusal to judge between civilisation and barbarism, and between enlightened rationalism and theocratic fundamentalism, endangers and condemns the victims of Islamic tyranny.
Ibn Warraq has written a devastating work that will be out by the summer. It is entitled Defending the West: A Critique of Edward Said’s Orientalism. Will Western intellectuals also dare to defend the West?
Phyllis Chesler is an Emerita Professor of Psychology and Women’s Studies at the City University of New York
Marti Klocke, you must be reading a different Qu'ran that I am reading. Or perhaps you are not reading even reading it.
A woman only needs to say "I want a divorce" 3 times and it's done. Very simple. The man can't "Take her back." There's nothing in the Qu'ran about that. Sons inherit 2x more than women because the women inherit a dowry from their husband's family, which can range from anything from material money or position in a business. Men can't force their wives to do anything. Whether or not the woman can go outside or not is not discussed in the Qu'ran; anyone keeping her at home is probably violating her rights as a human.
Go study up.
Hakeem Khalid, Los Angeles, California
yes..an age of enlightenment is needed...but this will only occur when the west leaves these countries at peace.
Also...Islam barbaric? I belive you have misunderstood the meaning of Islam itself. Judge the muslim not Islam itself and then you will see the difference of what Islam is as a faith and the person as the follower.
Media influence has changed many perspectives around the world about this religion that is heavily centralised by political affairs. If you want to seek the true meaning and understanding of Islam...the best advice i give is go back to the fundamental source which is the Quran. Then you see according to the teachings how righteous a muslim is. You have shed light on purely the traditional and cultural aspect of your life's experiences. Be curious but in the correct way before making such allegations.
Azkaa Hassam, London , UK
i am a free white christian male.i live work and interact with those like me....i dont want to live in any muslim state..i dont want to influence them to think,look,or act like me...if you leave me be in peace.i will return the same.try to push me and i will push back.
the anglo saxon race and the muslim have disagreed about god and allah for a long time...why dont we realize that they are the same?
jeffrey dean, New Hope, alabama
Sadiq, your post is a half-lie, and you know it. Without going into all the details: Yes it is possible for a woman to get a divorce but it is 5 times harder and takes ages, mostly the man has the chance to annulate the divorce by "taking her back". And yes this very uneven treatment ist part of Islamic Law. The same goes for inheritage (men inherit 2x the part of women), the right for men to have sex with their wifes anytime they wish, the right from keeping her in the family house and never let her out. Everything written in the Holy Koran. The good thing, every one is free to buy this book and to read it in order to make up his mind and understand, that most statements by Muslims here in the west are lies ("this or that is not the Islam blah blah) or lack of knowledge. PEOPLE, READ THE KORAN. It will open your eyes. This book would be forebidden if written today.
Martin Klocke, Düsseldorf, Germany
It is my reply to Saba. It is not a matter that Women can not get separated from her husband without his consent according to Islamic Law. She can get separation on his own will accrding to Islamic Law, only the way is different and no one (even husband) can not regret her decision.You can not say with surety that Islamic Law is as your point of view as you have not studied it well and not even practiced. In underdevloped countries mostly women are not educated and can not have access to their islamic rights. Also see it is not Islam who has stoped women to get education these are only local traditions and people at powers who do not want make them study so that their slaves should not reduce in numbers.
It is also to mention that what are the doings of people having prestigeous slogans of human right in Afghanistan and Iraq (more that 300000 innocent people killed and only Al Qaeda is being blamed) No one has seen Al Qaida
it is all self created for such selfish monarch dreams.
Sadiq, Hafiabad, Pakistan
I'm a secular muslim myself and I've heard the argument about the differences between Islam the religion and cultural customs in Islamic countries many times. I don't agree with this because Islam is not just a religion on the spiritual level, it is a way of life.
It is the Quran that permits polygomy. It is Islamic Sharia law that states a girl can be married off at the age of menstruation as young as 9. It is Islamic Sharia law that gives sole custody of children to their fathers upon divorce. Talagh or divorce cannot be initiated by women but men can easily divorce their wives by simply uttering the words. There is also khul': mutual divorce is seen as being initiated by the woman, but it must be accepted by the man!! If it is not accepted, divorce may only be granted by a judge under certain, relatively rare circumstances like desertion or abuse.
This is all ISLAMIC LAW and not cultural practices. So I don't understand what muslims keep crying about
Saba, Toronto, Canada
Hi Phyllis
Nothing much to say here except that I am very sorry for 2 things:
Firstly,you have married a wrong man; and
secondly, you are confused between the local tradition and Islam itself.
Obviously, you have not read the Qoran thoroughly before you got married. Thats your mistake...
Elenna, Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
I struggle with why we often associate crude ways observed in Islamic countries as "Islamic". Has everyone not read the old testament regarding women, men and how society was to function under the Torah Law? Bottom line is what happens in underpriveledged third world countries have more to do with cultural customs and poverty than Islam. Be apart of the solution like Oprah is in Africa!. No, we all dont have mass money to invest but we do have energy, time, resources and people to lean upon that will make a difference. Americans are the most priveledged of people and still we are killing, raping, stealing and molesting everyday? Women are abused everyday in this great country! What's the reason behind our sickness.....Christianity? See, its easy to point the finger! Were so busy analyzing everyone elses horrendous situations and at the same time failing to address our own. Lets get educated first, then talk! We can never see the essence of a situation through ignorance!
Tia, Seattle, Washington
Flipping eck!!! what was all that about then?
headnor tail, cuckoo land, cloud
I have lived in a country that finally has an uneasy peace, Northern Ireland. I have lived for most of my life in a warzone. I suffered grievious bodily injuries in the bombing of Omagh (1998). Despite these injuries I have great respect for peoples of all colours and creeds. I firmly believe that everyone should have the right to express themselves and to freedom. If the laws of your religion, the land,or even your own personal laws (or morals) decree that you should behave in a certain manner, then it is entirely up toyou to make an infrormed decision. I will freely admit my lack of knowledge of Islam, not because of intentional avoidance, but because I have simply never met a person of the Islamic faith. What i'm trying to say is to stop the fighting before another Northern Ireland happens, or a Bosnia on a worldwide scale
R Byrne, Omagh, Northern Ireland
If more "civilized" Muslims stood up to condemn the barbarism committed in the name of Islam we would not be debating this issue. But these voices are pitifully weak. So we are left to conclude that either a) civilized Muslims don't exist, b) the extremist barbarians are indeed a major force in Islam or c) media coverage (or lack thereof) mutes the moderate voices and magnifies the extreme voices. I personally believe the "truth" is a combination of b) and c).
Peter, Houston, TX
peace be upon you(just this word enough for learn about islam).
i see that we're so dogmatism and biosimiatism !!!coz we say whatever without any knowledge ....my friend writer you have to be thinker when you study anything ..because there are defferent between islam as religion and mozlems ...all muslims countries knew the independent just in 1950s of 20centry whereas you were the bosses of all thing and you who crushed our economy ,so you coming now and tell us that we're terorists or......
all what can i say ,both you and your mainds should learn a lot of about izlam then we'll see.
due to i hav not enough time to write i shall write and communicat with thee!!!
18yold islamic teen.
yaser, kénitra, morocco
Very few people commenting here, including the 'writer' of the article, have any knowledge of Islam. Go and study Ibn Sina, whose medical treatises were used in Europe for 700 years; or read about the Mozarabs of Spain, who admired the Arabs so much that they abandoned the use of Latin for Arabic; or Ibn al-'Arabi's theory on reaching Allah through the feminine principle; or Mulla Sadra's philosophy of the transubtantial movement of the soul. It is people's knowledge and views of Islam that is barbaric and rooted in ignorance.
Alice, Tehran, Iran
Yes, dear mr. Johns, you are without doubt right, and your very western brand of self-criticism, will, I am sure, land you a nice place in heaven. These Christian 'fundamentalists' though, do not carry the hate and the desire of annihilation of the 'other', like many muslims do. Islam is very much the religious version of autism, as Claude Levi-Strauss described it half a century ago. Others are probably looked down upon with desdain, perhaps rejection, by Christian fundamentalists, and will be told of the eternal fire awaiting them in the next life. In this life though, they will be left alone, the base of rights, the right to basic freedom. If a Christian fundamentalist rejects his faith, will he be killed? Most probably not. IN Ilamic countries, he or she will. So it's good being a leftist third-world oppressed people lover, but the enemy of your enemy is possibly no better than your enemy.
Sylvain Garagnon, Sydney, NSW
The religious right are people who want to see morality and values mean something again in this society, not something that is spoken as an afterthought in some conversations. Also.. to the people that claim America is too puritan? We are number one for a reason, because we were so called "puritans".
amanda, kings park, ny
I am a christian but for a long time knew there was something more for me and that was believing in god. so last year I went on my own to sharm el Sheikh purely for a holiday. There I met the man of my dreams who said he was divorced with two children who lived in Cairo. I went home to England and after a few weeks keeping in touch with this man we both decided for me to go live there with him. I was so very happy we discussed our futures together and agreed when we both die we would be buried together in the cemetery next to his ancesters in Geiza. We would live together in paradise for ever. After a few months I started asking questions about his divorced wife who by this time had my mobile number and would sms me calling me her sister. After a few more months I asked why I never visited his family when he went. i then found out he wasn't divorced and slept with her when he visited his family. She accepted me but I could not so left heartbroken. He is now looking for other rich wimen
christine froggatt, Sheffield, England
I think the author should look a little closer to home, where there are 45 million Christian fundamentalista who are equally fanatic. The problem with any fundamentalist movement is that they always think that they are so right, and therefore everyone is so wrong. With such thinking there can be no discourse or reasoned exchange of ideas. We should not single out any one brand of fundamentalism with such a holier than thou attitude. Especially when similar thinking resides right in our own back yards.
Steve Johns, Oakville, Ontario, Canada
Actually Andreas, Athens, Grece...
Many Christians do believe the Laws they have now, are Biblical. You obviously are not from the US. Currently we have a religious right movement that wishes to instill Biblical Law. Greece is an open minded society. In the US showing a nipple on TV will get you fined...
Currently the Religious Right in the US is against the HPV vaccine. But its been approved in Islamic countries. Find out whats going on in the US regarding Evangelical Zionism. You may be just as shocked as finding out Afghanistan was at war for 30 yrs...
Harris Brio, Detroit, MI USA
I understand - I travelled alone as a woman to two Muslim countries and the level on harassment from the men reached fever pitch - most western women like to look attractive - but after that - it can leave your questioning womanhood, it was clearly more of an advantage to being a man.
The trouble with trying to get across the point about Islam to Westerners is that they don't understand, firstly, how free they are and secondly, how in bondage the Islamic world/and even places like Turkey is. We say things like - not long ago, women had it hard in the West - but this is largely academic or detached, as now we are fighting for equal wages and promotions into the boardroom. While on the other hand most women in the Islamic world can only leave the house with special permission or under arrangement.
Even those who have converted to Islam in the West, still cannot grasp the impact of the social structure of Muslims living in Islamic countries, and probably almost fantasise about what the wider Muslim world does to keep that structure or order. And there is our own issue of not wanting to offend and to be respectful of others cultures, but shouldn’t we also be able to say, that although we respect your culture and your religious beliefs, we don’t believe that you have the right to subordinate women and treat them with disrespect, anywhere. It is no surprise that the writer has found allies in former Muslims and those from the Muslim world – as for these aspects of Islam are not debatable they are a reality to them. Think, if those were our daughters, how would we act?
R Hall, London,
I do not think many westerners believe humanist laws were written in the bible. In fact, I also do not believe that weterners would like to implement biblical law in their countries.
I do not really understand why biblical law should be compared to islamic law. Fact is, there is no country which is ruled by biblical law. On the other side, the sharia is quite commomin muslim countries, or am i wrong?
And i do not know of many westerners who are demonstrating for the implementation of biblical law in secular democracies. But there are many muslims living in europe who want to use the sharia and who say that basic human rights are not compatible to their religion.
And, funny as i may seem, we evil westerners really are not stoning our wifes. A practice quite common in muslim countries, i believe. And i do not really see what ist so courteous in stoning someone.
Andreas, Athens, Grece
I always find it amusing how Jewish and Christian individuals speak of how civli thier religion is based on how they are no longer stoning someone. Unfortunatelt these individuals have a nasty habit of believing Secular Humanist Laws were written in the Bible.
More interesting is Jewish/Christians insistence that Islamic Laws be put up against Secular Laws in comparrision to Biblical Law. Islamic Law is rarely compared to Biblical Law. The Bible is truely scared.
The professor found the Afghanis enchating courteous. The reason for that courtesy. I would say in a society that is governed by its faith courtesy would have something to do with that faith. But the good professor immerdiately dismisses that faith by also informing us Aghanistan is a dangerous place. Professor, there is a war going on, a war that has lasted almost 30 years. I'm from Detroit USA, there are areas that I cannot goto because the color of my skin, not because of a 30 yr war. Consider Afghanistan gangland.
Harris Brio, Detroit, MI USA
i agree
phyliss, big city,
i am a muslim woman that has been ENLIGHTENED by the women role models that islam has presented, including Fatima, Muhammed's daughter.
islam is a religon that praises women, so please get your facts right.
Amelie, Manchester, UK
How were you able to get out of Afghanistan without your passport.
Lou VanDelman, Toronto, Ontario, Canada
If she was educated enough to become a professor, she should have been smart enough to know what entering an Islamic country/culture entailed, especially when it comes to women's' rights , or lack thereof. She should have also known that using religious doctrine is a very old and highly effective way of controlling people. Therefore, if you live in a free society, stay in it and, if you must, fight for the freedom of others from a base where your voice can be heard and may make some difference.
Tom, Woodbridge, USA
According to: http://www.saudiembassy.net/Country/Islam/IslDetail3.asp "Islam is at once a religion and a total way of life. It prescribes order for individuals, societies and governments and codifies law, family relationships, matters of business, etiquette, dress, food, hygiene and much more." I have seen the same point made elsewhere in print. If it is a correct statement, how can anyone argue that local cultural practices are to blame for what was described in the article? If Islam is "a total way of life" how can the religion not be the cause of what is done in its name?
David, London, UK
West think so, because west is suffering from a state of diseases... in which they neglect every open history book... here are some Questions (as well as answers are hidden in them)..
West think pacifism is answer to facist. they give a answer of Gandhi. beside this indian books says that Because indians participated with British to fight Nazis, this changed british and india was set free. both points are contradictory anyways, there was infact a fight(pasifism?),but fought in europe. the second question is, if Gandhi was in Jail during WW2 for creating problem (as he was linked with abwehr) , so who were those guys helping British to fight Hitler. why voice of moderate muslims are closed in asia, and why hindus who speak are tagged as radical ?
one answer also be located here, seek why indians shifted to hinduism from buddhism? perhaps your search for fall of sleeping bamiyan buddha will give you to answer of islamic history.. including the fall of pacifism next to islam.
Puneet Madaan, delhi, india
Fascinating. So it's all culture, nothing to do with Islam?
How come, then, this situation (of women languishing behind closed doors, etc) is common throughout the muslim countries, but not anywhere outside the muslim world?
Whatever were the abuses of women in the West, throuhout history, women were queens, king-makers, rebels and leaders. Name one Muslim woman-leader, or any Muslim woman from the past, whose contribution is acknowledged by Muslims.
Suzy, Cambridge,
There is something approaching a consensus in these comments that religion is open to abuse, that a (mis)interpretation can be used to further a personal or social or political agenda.
This recognition is usually a prelude to a defence of the religion, the apologist sees the fault in the practise of the individual or society.
Surely if a religion can be used as a weapon of oppression then the religion IS at fault? If that is not it's purpose - regardless of which religion it is - and most seem to have far too much wrath, violence, intolerance, superstition, double standards, hypocrisy etc not to be susceptible to sustaining bigotry, slavery, torture and mass killing.
I've read the Bible, I've read the Quran, I've read Upanishads, the book of the Dead (Egyptian and Tibetan). Self deluding wishful thinking religious fools scare me.
By the way, do I have to read Mein Kampf before I criticise the Nazis?
You can't judge a book by the cover, but you can judge a tree by it's fruit.
Kidd Garrett, Bristol, UK
This one had an overwhelming response.
Chris, London, UK
My eyes were opened to the Domestic Violence barbarity when it hit my own life and family. I did not see it coming until it actually was happening and did not know how to get out. I was a captive in my own free soil, in my home; I had fear to express my creative self. After, all that counseling and warnings out there right? There is a lot of help available... You are right, but it still happening to thousands of women today in this wonderful country that we call free USA. So wake up everybody! This problem of barbaric treatment to women in foreign countries such as Afghanistan is definitely wrong, but what about writing an article in what is hapening here and why is it still happening? I am now a survivor, and a lot stronger. I have been raising my 3 daughters on my own for the last 7 years, and we have become stronger than ever thanks to our Lord God, family and good friends.
Ana Bolt, Miami, Florida
It is shocking to hear these stories, but then what you find in poverty-stricken villages full of grossly ignorant men and women is that they live by their own laws. As a muslim its appalling that Prof. Chesler makes a generalised statement by labelling Islam as the problem rather than the sick Afghanis. We dont label christianity as a paedophilic religion just because a large handful of priests and bishops are prosecuted etc. Who is more tolerant?
Islam is being disgraced by those who have hijacked it as their label to press forward their own agendas. For every negative article there are many positives, but positive insight into Muslim lifestyles doesnt sell - only shocking and gripping news catches attention.
Religion is being used as an excuse by many for their crimes but dont blame them, blame religion(!)
When a western woman converts to Islam then that must make her suicidal for she wants to be opressed right? Is that why Yvonne Riddley converted after release from Taliban? hmm
Abdullah, London, UK
Professor Chesler, expresses these feelings well. As a Western woman who lived in the Middle East under an 'moderate' Islamic government, I can echo all her sentiments and fears. She has my utmost support.
June Maxwell, Jersey, UK
Would it be wise to judge a good car to be bad because the driver is drunk and crashes it into a wall? Certainly not! So stop judging Islam by the actions of some "Muslims". This is yet another case of so called "Muslims" using religion to suit their own selfish and evil agendas. Anyone who has studied true Islam as taught and practised by the Benevolent Prophet will acknowledge that Islam honours women and gives them rights and freedoms. It teaches that paradise lies beneath the feet of the mother, that whoever treats daughters kindly will attain paradise and, according to a prophetic saying, "The best amongst you are those who are kindest to their wives". Even Prince Charles acknowledged in a speech at Oxford, "The rights Islam gave to women 14 centuries ago were alien even to my grandmother's generation!" We condemn such barbaric treatment of women, but it is certainly very unfair to associate it with Islam when such behaviour is actually rampant in all countries and cultures.
Imran, Leeds, U.K.
Any human being that suppress women or other human being for that matter, in any fashion, is simply wrong, religion or no religion. I must agree with Umar Tarar who responded here. Islam itself, is not the problem. It is each indivdual/group, regardless of religion that participate and agree to be a part of any barbarity. If one does not wish to participate in these practices, one need only walk away from them.
Kim Randazzo, San Diego, USA
Commentators (negative) on this article keep citing the need 'to read about Islam' before criticising it. I read a lot about Islam - in the news. That news is soaked in blood, butchery and bullying. 'But the Koran says Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance'. Something's out of whack here. As for P. Chesler not having been in Kabul for 40 years, it's totally absurd to imply that things are more progressive there now, or that her Jewishness makes her unfit to comment. Islam is a stranger to the West because it enforces a collectivist culture, and the West upholds the freedom of the individual. The two are as opposed as the ancient Greeks and the Persians.
HB, Vancouver, Canada
I think before anything else one must realise that islam is practised in very different ways and interpretations around the world. Biggest message againt fanaticism on the other hand can be given with the promotion of those countries that are liberal and secular while still following islam, rather than writing articles like this that generalises across all muslims and feeds religious hatred. Particularly for a woman who has been educated this much I found the views expressed here disturbingly generalising both from an academic perspective and a humanist perspective. It is very sad that people are so ready to generalise and yes I do agree with the opinion that should Christianity be known as what Hitler did? This would be a massive mistake and to actually do it as if it was being "better" or "having better religion" simply disturbs me because I believe this would be a complete misinterpretation of what Christianity or any religion is all about when interpreted correctly!
Guldal Cimen, Manchester, UK
For intellectuals, who compare Islam in it's relation to Afghanistan to Christianity in it's relationship to the US harming the environment, wake up, smell the coffee.
The fact is what was described in Afghanistan takes place in many Muslim nations. The issues described by this poor woman, are vaslty more serious, and immediately within the ability of human beings to correct than the issue of the environment.
You rationalize craziness and that minimizes it to just another issue when in fact it is an issue that needs to be rectified NOW. What if she had been your mother?
Do your recycle thing and so will I. Don't insult us with the pathetic comparrison that the subjugation of humans to the level of animals is akin to providing oil for an economy that would die now if we halted whatever it is some believe we should halt.
Cut off the Saudis now, but don't drill to replace the oil lost while seeking better answers for the future both near and long term is a shortsighted suicide!
Don, Irvine,
"How long has it been since Britain was an entrenched Patriarchal society - on some levels it can be argued that is actually still is!"
Simply not true. Medieval women could own property and certainly weren't expected to stay indoors all the time - think Wife of Bath. Pre-modern England was certainly not perfect, but it provided the conditions in which women could work towards equal status.
Rose, Cambridge,
Professor Chesler may think her eyes are open but I rather think her mind is quite closed. She reminds me of Congreve's words in ' The mourning bride'.
N Mahmood, Enfield, UK
It's no good saying "it's not religion's fault, it's the way it's interpreted." Men make up the religion in the first place, and it tends to reflect, to a greater or lesser extent male cultural prejudices and their interests in maximising their power through hierarchies in which women are the "other" and are always ultimately under the control of men. All modern religions do this: Islam does it more than most. The Koran as drafted by Mohamed, and then as "interpreted" by male priests, produces societies where women are treated as lesser beings (women don't get to run things in these societies: they are treated as having a separate, limited domestic sphere of operation, their bodies are regarded things which are owned and controlled by specific men (fathers, brothers, husbands). They are also seen as "responsible" for the "effect" their bodies have on men. Rather than me reading the Koran, Islamists need to read some feminist writers and understand where all this misogyny comes from.
Anne Murphy, London,
Everyone says that it is the people that are the problem, not the religion... but there is a direct correlation between the people and the religion, the people that live this life where religion is the governing power, the way of life, of course religion has something to do with the problem.
This is a huge problem within a specific group of people. Why is it so hard for people to accept that?
Everyone throws blame on the West, for needing to change, to learn to accept, to learn the Koran, yet it seems it is the other country which has more needs to learn, has more needs to change... Not the West.
Emma, Central, California
Thank you for making your voice heard.
alice, Beds, UK
While the article points to many valid concerns, I fear that I find it a little light on evidence to indicate that the problems highlighted are a fault of Islam, the religion, and not the culture that coexists beside it and shapes it.
Is one equally justified at looking at Western society and and claiming that Christianity is inherently linked to environmental damage (subjugation of the natural world being one of the oldest of Judeo-Christian beliefs)?
It seems that the article shows us a correlation, but perhaps not a causality.
Jon Hodge, Beaconsfield,
The crusades was a RETALIATION for muslim atrocities, not an unprovoked aggression.
Robert Craven, Cookeville, USA/TN
The title-statement "How my eyes were opened to the barbarity of Islam
Is it racist to condemn fanaticism?" might have been justified if it were stated as "How my eyes were opened to the barbarity in Afghanistan..."
Islam is not what any Muslim or a group of Muslims just practices regardless of its concordance with actual Islamic teachings. Similarly, as an example, Christianity is not what Hitler (being a Christian) did with Jews or if accounted as a cause of WWII did with 20million victims of it.
I am certain in claiming that Ms. Chesler (though what happened to her is condemnable) is not aware of what Islam in fact is and that she, in response, has only pointed out a particular culture’s/community’s appalling practices.
I would urge her to have a study on Islam to establish a fair opinion.
Umar Tarar, Islamabad,
Professor Chesler may think her eyes are open but her mind is closed. She reminds me of Congreve's words in 'The Mourning bride'.
N Mahmood, Enfield, UK
I just googled "phyllis chesler" and her wikipedia entry and her own website put her article into perspective. She lived in Kabul 40 years ago. She is Jewish, therefore not likely to be pro-Islam.
I beieve from the information on these other websites she clearly has a strong personal agenda in writing the article.
Bill Peter, Aberfeldy , Scotland
Bill Peter of Aberfeldy, Scotland wrote
"There are bad people in all religions. In addition, not all Islamic countries are the same."
This information will be very interesting for Bill Peter of Aberfeldy, Scotland, that In Malaysia, a Muslim needs government's permission to convert to other religion practiced in Malaysia, i.e. Christianity, Buddhism and Hinduism. It is not the people, it is the teachings of Islam. Look at the constitutions of all the Muslim countries, you will find clauses to Muslims (in the constitutions) that they can't convert to other religions.
gandhijinnah, Karachi, Pakistan
For all the blather from those readers who have only read about Islam, or contend that people of all religions are the same, etc. etc, the fact is Christians stopped stoning women about 2,000 years ago.
susan reeves, san diego, california
Why are people prevented from criticising Islam because they haven't read the Koran, as Sarah Martin suggests? I would imagine that the vast majority of Muslims haven't read it, especially woman. Does that suggest that I cannot, as an atheist, criticise Christians because I haven't read the Bible, or Pagans because I haven't read any of their guiding literature. I can criticise any, or all, of these because they represent things that don't suit me or because they specifically represent a threat to me. I can do that in this country, as I am protected by the same law as everybody else, I cannot criticise Islam in a Muslim country, because I would risk my life.
David Leslie, Perth, Scotland
It seems to me a problem of religious power. If (as in Europe) religion is divorced from power then it becomes relatively harmless.
Why do people tolerate abuse of power in the name of religion? Ignorance and superstition is the easy answer, but when so many people's world view is dominated by antiquated erroneous "religious" ideas and beliefs is it any wonder they acquiesce?
How can this change and is education alone sufficient?
In Europe the (heroic) dictators like Henry VIII rested power from the church. It was easier to subsequently rest power from a human target (devine right of kings) and dilute it among the Barons, and easier then for subsequent generations to successively redistribute this power to all landowners, then to all voting males, and finally to all voters regardless fo sex. This has been a series of steps over hundreds of years. Each step was hard faught and had many casualties.
Bill, London, England
There are number of comments on this article indicating that Chesler has no understanding of Isam and the countries in which it presides. She married a Muslim man and lived there for an unspecified period of time. Why does she have to go to "islamic school"? Isn't first hand experience enough to allow a person to have a view?
Saying that religion and culture is unrelated is wrong. All culture is based on religion. That of the western world too. As an example, the reason there is such a thing as a working week and that few people work on Sundays is due to the fact that sunday is the day of rest according to Christianity. There are aspects of the western world which are not based on religion, but these are never justified by religion.
One also has to take into account the debate of whether there in fact is a God. Any God. In which case all religion is just culture, and nothing else.
One doesn't have to fully understand something to believe that something is morally injust.
Atheist, London,
Excellent article... correct views - Ijtihad needs to be brought back. Islam must be criticised in an open and mature fashion for it to move forward.
bravo.
Murray, London, UK
Having lived in Indonesia, I know an awful lot of Muslims. Having lived in Europe, I know an awful lot of Christians. I have met Muslims who pay lip service to their faith (drinking alcohol in private, "because if nobody sees you it's OK"), wonderful, welcoming, generous Muslims, and Muslims who yelled "Ha! Serves them right!" when 9/11 happened. I've met Christians who pay lip service to their faith (going to church only at Christmas), wonderful, welcoming, generous Christians, and Christians who stop talking to people when they find out they have the "wrong" sexuality/race/nationality, even if they've known them for years.
It is true, Christianity has advanced more than Islam, but it does take all sorts, and you can't judge people by their faith.
Starling, Lancaster, UK
Islam is NOT the problem - people are. There are bad people in all religions. In addition, not all Islamic countries are the same. I have lived in 2 - Kuwait for 3 years; 1979 to 1982 and Malaysia since 1993 to date. They are very different countries to the one described in the article, and I would recommend Malaysia to anyone, although Kuwait is only really good for younger people wanting to save a bit of money.
Bill Peter, Aberfeldy , Scotland
From reading all the comments here it seems clear that any Western criticism of Islamic society, cannot have any weight as long as we continue to have a limited knowledge of the Quoran. Muslims have the right to refute criticism with the simple phrase "read the Quoran", they are absolutely correct.
I believe that Islamic society should be able to bear the weight of criticism, the fact that mistreatment of women has no place in the Quoran means that it is the society that is at fault not the religion which has become a scapegoat both for the western critics of Islamic society and for its fanatical defenders.
All societies can be criticised, all societies must be if we are to advance, but criticism needs to come from a place of profound knowledge if it is to have any impact. The Western world needs to educate itself if it is ever to have any meaningful dialogue with its muslim brothers and sisters.
Sarah Martin, Lille, France
As usual everyone is blaming religions. This is not a problem of religion; it is man's interpretation of what they believe a religion to be that is the problem. Religion is created and shaped and influenced and changed my people, individuals, you. Religions only exist because you believe them. One day when we realise religions are childish and foolish creations of man (as we believe the ancient Greek and Inca gods to be) and we allow our children to grown up as humans, before indoctrinating there minds with fanciful and supernatural ideas, only then will we understand that we are all “jock tamson’s bairns” (quote-Robert Burns) i.e. we are all related and inter and co dependent wherever we are on this little blue planet. I hope you all have a happy healthy and peaceful day.
Alan , Newmarket, suffolk
To understand Islam, reading the Koran is insufficient. Best is to read, in parallel, one of the collections of Hadiths (stories or quotations from the life of Mohammed), for example the collection made by Al Bukhari - available on the internet. A Christian parallel to the Hadiths would be the Acts of the Apostles, or the Epistles.
And having done that, make your mind up as to what is the product of religion, and what the product of local custom.
NL, Brussels, Belgium
Bravo, Phyllis! You are absolutely correct with your views. I am sorry that so many so-called "intellectuals" resort to calling you names and state, as above, that your article is "destructive." I do think, that sometimes, individual experiences can become a portrayal of truth in culture that helps us to understand a wider view. Your experience is such an example.
The bottom line is that any system that either disregards or persecutes people in such a way that they can never become the unique, beautiful person they truly are - full of gifts and talents, and use them to make a difference in our world - is an oppressive, evil system. My goal as a teacher each day in my high school classroom is to try to give my students the tools they need to really think and assess what they read, hear, and see.
This is why stories such as yours need to be told. They highlight the day-to-day realities that people live with in oppressive regimes around the world. Thank you for telling the truth.
Vicki Moore, M.M., Bakersfield, CA
With the large number of comments this article has received it appears that the writer has acheived exactly the response she wanted when in choosing the title...well done to her.
RP, Sydney, Australia
How my eyes were opened to the barbarity of Islam
Is it racist to condemn fanaticism?
With the above I think you have to go back to Islamic school and other religions then we can talk. At the moment you have the grudge towards Isalm. That is not reporting. It is teaching me wrong tricks of trade.
Thank you
Firozali A. Mulla MBA PhD, Dar-Es-Salaam, Tanzania
I think what people lack is background knowledge to support their argument hence belive what they are told, either by media or rare cases such as these.
One should take the initiative to overcome their ignorance, before coming to any conclusions and labelling religion as 'barbaric'.
Honestly speakin i had very similar views about islam before i done some background reading. to get all your queries answered about islam and its teachings visit, : http://www.alislam.org i was recomended to this site y a friend and now my eyes have truely opened to the world of islam and to learn more about women in islam check out http://www.alislam.org/library/WOMANINISLAM.pdf
mashooka, london,
Thank you Ms. Chesler for having the courage to speak out. Much more courage will be required for civilized people to keep their heads attached to their necks. We have to be ever vigilent to guard against extremists. Some Islamists have pointed out that they have freedoms, but how many of them have denounced terrorism? It's always the fault of the victim who was blown up be a terrorist. It's time for Islam to enter the 21st century and for the followers of Islam to take responsibility for their actions.
Christopher Sexton, San Diego, California
This is very much a biased and unobjective view of issues.It is important for non-muslims to distinguish between the principles of Islam and the activities of muslims. Undoubtedly, muslims make mistakes in their interpretation of Islam and in its practice. But let us remember Hitler wasnt a muslim, neither was Mussolini or several other world tyrants. Let us remember that christians perpetrated acts of disdain against muslims in the crusades. Remember the oppression of muslims by Israel. There may be a thousand Bin Ladens or Al-Zarqawis-that doesnt make their actions Islamic. The simple fact is humans have an inherent Good or Evil and irregardless of our faith, we can choose where to belong. Islam teaches good, some muslims do good, others dont. The same rule applies to Christianity or Judaism. The scale of application is a different matter that proves nothing
Ade, Reading,
No one denounces Christianity? You just did. Mischaracterization of Biblical Christianity is continually used to justify anti-Christian bigotry.
The Qur'an overtly commands the use of force in "converting" infidels and suppressing women. Christianity, conversely, commands its followers to simply "preach" the Gospel...
Yes, the Bible says wives should submit themselves to their husbands, but this is not the same as subserviance! Besides, this describes the marriage relationship, not societal structure. The Bible also commands the husband to love and honor his wife, and, unlike the Qur'an, is full of praise for honorable women.
It's no coincidence that the history of the "liberation" of women (at least by comparison to "non-western" societies) follows so closely the history of the propagation of Christianity.
M. Shedley, St. Paul, MN / USA
My heart breaks as I read the account of Ibn Warraq. In America, we are a divided nation, with many intent on tearing us down from the inside. I live surrounded by those who enjoy tremendous freedom and yet they remain silent about the true oppression of women and dissenters around the world. I hear daily about the horrible oppression at home in America, yet this from those who have never experienced hunger, physical beatings or loss of personal freedom.
America is far from perfect, but I stand with Churchill's assessment that Democracy is the worst form of government, except all others. (paraphrased). May freedom reach the people of Afghanistan.
Jeff Damon, San Antonio, USA
Chesler might to do well to actually have some knowledge about Islam, and women who practice the before painting the entire Muslim world with the brush of 'intolerance' and 'barbarism'. Quite frankly, it shows complete ignorance and whats more - for a supposedly intelligent woman, Cheslar fails to make a distinction between barbaric cultural practices, and what Islam actually says, In addition, why does Chesler not talk about the socio/pol/eco situation of a country like Adghanistan which by default has an impact on how society is organised.
How long has it been since Britain was an entrenched Patriarchal society - on some levels it can be argued that is actually still is!
So please, can we try and be intelligent and learn not to jump on the bandwagon without having full and inclusive knowledge about Islam and Muslims.
Maria, London,
i think that Islam is an abused religon; abused by its so called followers. It is people such as those mentioned in this article that blacken Islam's image by their, quite frankly, disgusting attitude that completely violates Islamic law. For a non-muslim to understand Islam, it is necessary that they look at Islamic theory before they look into how muslims actually practise the religon. In the East, tradition is the ruling force, rather than religon; I am afraid that some have twisted Islam in a way that backs up their traditional beliefs... so that they can treat women as second class for example.
Of course, some muslims do proudly practise the less refined religon, the true version, these muslims have been refferred to as the 'moderate' muslims... moderate as all muslims are supposed to be, after all, the message of Islam did bring reform to an uncivilised nation in Arabia all those years ago - a people that used to bury their newborn daughters alive. Some don't learn!
Amelie, Manchester, UK
To me the article is a much more simple issue than most here would admit to in the West. The fact that women were treated as second class citizens in most of the world up until the end of the 19th century, not just under Islam. Remember that they only received the vote in the US/UK in the early part of the 20th centuary and that their property brought into marriage was considered belonging to the man from that time forward. This is about bigotry, ignorance, povery and maybe human rights but not religion. Look to your own culture before condeming others. Also how a so called educated person could get them into this position is beyond me but it is not the preserve of only women, men do all the time too.
P Mudge, Princeton, NJ USA
I am rather tired of the current fashion of describing Afghanistan in medieval terms. I was born in Kabul in the mid fifties. I never saw my mother or my 3 aunts wear a chadori(burqa). My aunts were all educated and taught physics and chemistry in schools around Kabul. My father had one wife, he is now 76. I dont have a single contemporary relative who had to suffer the indignity of a second marriage or wife.
I have no idea where this lady was living or how westernised her husband was. The Afghanistan I knew was not particularly religious, the mullahs were regularly ridiculed by schoolkids and others. Particular derision was reserved for Brotherhood muslims who were considered pawns in the hands of Arabs.
All this fundamentalist Islam is a relatively recent occurence in Afghanistan. Starting with the Russian invasion. Lets not forget, under the auspices of the US Afghanistan is now an Islamic Republic. It was not an Islamic anything when there was a monarchy.
ghiass, Camberley, UK
Democracy and Freedom are everybody's right.
These Muslim countries need to change and adapt to
meet the hopes and ambitions of their people.
when did you ever hear of somebody from a Christian country seeking asylum in a muslim country, never.
chris , stafford, england
Phylis
The behaviour of many Muslims toward their wives has nothing to do with Islam. I woulg suggest you explore tribal customs of doing things in order to get a grasp of why some Muslim men behave as such.
I am a Muslim married to a christian, have never forced my opinion on her, or mistreated in any shape or form; do you know why? because Islam thaught me that coercion of anyone to adopt my Islamic ways, is in fact committing a sin, that treating my wife humanly & leniently is morally expected of me. Your sad experience does in no way reflect the teachings of Islam. Put bias aside and you will see that many .customs in Islamic society and that includes the barbaric act of female circumcision are in actual fact Unislamic in their core.
Abdelghani Mechita, London, UK
I find it deeply ironic that the only fools writing in defence of the situation presented in this article are EITHER male Islamo-apologetics, or "western" women with thier collective heads in the sand. As much as I've read on this subject I have YET to see a muslim woman FROM that culture rise to it's defence...I'm sick of listing to mulsim men justify the culture of brutality towards women by pointing out the shortcomings in Western culture, and equally tired of listing to western "feminists" whine about glass ceilings while blithely defending this barbarism with a "well that's their culture" attitude. In fact, based on the postings from many of these "feminists" they would argue that a woman in a mini skirt was raped because she "asked for it" by wearing something so revealing. Clearly men do not have a corner on the double-standard market...
TS, Redding, CA,
Many may think the west is 'promiscuous', so what?
The point is that it's a choice.
robin, LONDON, u.k.
Oppressive or not it's just the way Afghanistan has always been. If the women there are really so unhappy, sooner or later they will seek changes. It's just that the author has experienced something "better" that she wants Afghan to change for the "better". I personally don't think westerners living a promiscuos life is good either. But it's just cultural difference. To stick your nose into ppl's business is probably why ppl in the Middle East act in a certain why. Take responsibility for that, and be more open minded! Generalising the ppl there as, as you put it, "barbaric", and communicating it in such an untactful way is non the wiser too. How ridiculous it is for you to think that you are "enlightened" too. Maybe you are barbaric too, but in a different way.
arctanck, Reading, UK
You are all worshipping non-existant supernatural beings
as you fear the inevitable.
One day the dear earth will be free of this backward lunacy
John, Denver, US
To portray Israel as an innocent victim is a clear indication that the hardship and brutality the author has endured has completely clouded her judgment. Israeli policies concerning Palestinians is Apartheid--any rational person can see that. Note I said policies. There are many, many Israelis who wish to live in peace with their neighbors. That being said, as a Muslim, I cannot tell you the sadness, no depsair I feel when I see how Islam is being destroyed from within. But articles such as these only lend fuel to unfair stereotypes. The inhumanity she describes is cultural not religious. religion is merely a pretext to oppress others. But I feel, ultimately, this is an irresponsible,simplistic article. And very destructive.
Sharbari, Darien, CT
I believe the title of this article should have been 'How my eyes were opened to the barbarity of the Afghans Taleban'. Harsh treatment to women clearly contadicts the teaching of Islam.
Fadzllah, B.S. Begawan, Brunei
The experience of the author is another testimony of the terrible treatment women have to support in countries ruled by the islamic law. The case of Ayaan Hirsi Ali in Holland and her extraordinary book The caged virgin shows the reality of the suffering women and the lack of human rights they support in countries ruled by the sharia.
I agree with the author when she defends her rigth to critizice fundamentalism. Doing ith this she is not committing any act of racism but defending our western societies from fanaticism and from the intention of radical islamists to impose their ideas to the rest of the world.
Jaime Jankelevich, Santiago,
The amount of denial of reality in some of the comments only makes Dr. Chessler's comments more valuable. Islam is intertwined with the Afghan culture and it gives legitimacy to the barbaric behavior that she experienced. Shar'ia is the recognized legal system of the society in which she found herself, and, it props up and perpetuates the tortuous lives of all women who must live under it. A self-criticism by the Muslims might allow some enlightenment into these dark corridors. And for those of you who wish to blame the "West" or Dr. Chessler, herself, for the brutality of generations--yes, we in the West have made terrible mistakes, but, we look at them, in the light of day for all to see, and try to correct them. The same thing cannot be said of those cruel purveyors of 7th century justice in Afghanistan, and too many, Muslim nations.
Robin Dean, Philadelphia, PA/USA
Culture and religion contribute to the advancement of a people and society. Culture and religion contributes to the downfall or stagnation of a culture or people.
During the last 200 years, no great inventions, discoveries, social reforms, cultural movements, economic or scienctific advancements came out of the Islamic world. Islam has never produced a Martin Luther, Martin Luther King, Edison, Tesla, Lincoln, Marconi, Yeats, or Dickens. The gross nation product of Singapore is greater than all of the Islamic countries put together.
To be fair, Islam did have a golden age during the middle ages while western Europe was in a dark period. What Happened? Western culture experienced an enlightenment. Church and State began to seperate. It took centuries, but it opened up new freedoms, opportunity, thought processes, and incentivies for discoveries. If Islam does not have an age of enlightenment, it will continue to be stagnate and continue to blame others for its failures.
Bruce, Minneapolis, USA
hell hath no fury like a woman scorned...
John, Nottingham,
Interesting but not a new addition to what we already know about islamic countries. The question is to define if islam is a faith or a political idealogy, in defence of it, I found out Muslims always define it as a religious of peace (Faith). Yet the same person can not accept Islam with out its political influences in initiation of wars, discrimination against member of community or outsiders,etc. (Idealogy). There is no doubt about use of Islamic faith by goverment and power players as a political gel, yet abusing its very base (Quran) to justify violation of basic human rights. As world grow smaller thanks to unremitting pace of advances in telecommunication and information technology I see more and more human right activist among muslims reach out and challenge the sensitive subject of sanctity of Islamic fundamentals. I hope their effort lead to what I believe would be an Islamic renaissance, and kick start end of dark ages in islamic countries.
Babak, Manchester,
Phyllis Chesler's editorial reminds me of the great similarities between different fundamentalisms almost in spite of which holy books they happened to use. As I read, I recalled tales of women fleeing fundamentalist Mormon Muslims on this side of the pond in Arizona and Utah. I conclude there is no such thing as a "better" fundamentalism; only movements in which the greater the need for everybody to sound like they believe the same thing, the greater the terror and hypocrisy used to make it look that way.
George Wolf, Gaithersburg, MD, USA
As usual the religious conservative right are quick to jump to the defence of an antiquated 'culture'. The debate has nothing to do with whether or not islam is peaceful, it is about the gulf between civilisations (and I use the term in the loosest sense) of the West and East. In Britain we pride ourselves on equality and liberty and are quick to chastise anyone, within our own community, with contradictory views. Yet so many seem unable to realise that intolerance, bigotry and theocracy consume so many people in other, particularly muslim, countries. Instead of criticising the author for an entirely justified opinion she should be commended for highlighting a serious problem. If no one challenged dogma then we would still live in serfdom, it is time for politicians to spread democracy regardless of whether its good financially. To the muslims/arabs who have criticised this, you are an embarrasment to my gender and the reason why feminism is still neccessary in the 21st century.
Philip J Sparrow, Lancaster, England
Misogyny is not a product of the middle east, and it is not a product of Islam itself. These social structures are based on local custom and tradition, and the more conservative inhabitants of the area automatically assume that "tradition" and "religion" are synonymous. For example, if we look at the treatment of women in China a hundred years ago, when polygamy was still an acceptable institution and women were only valued for their ability to bear sons, we can see that mysogyny is not a part of Islam. Look at Saudi Arabia, a strict Islamic state- they just passed a law enforcing equal pay for working women. Throughout history, in all cultures, the wealthy have emphasized their privileged status by restricting their women, by keeping them cloistered or restricting their movement or altering their physiques (e.g. promoting obesity as "beautiful", foot binding) to render them unfit for work. Much of the world moves on, the Middle East lags behind and people in the West blame Islam!
Brittany Shannahan, Oxford, MD, USA
Prof. Chesler is right to say that "[o]ur abject refusal to judge between civilisation and barbarism, and between enlightened rationalism and theocratic fundamentalism, endangers and condemns the victims of Islamic tyranny." It also endangers the rest of us, since the stated goal of the Islamicists is to impose their system on the whole world.
But is the solution for more people to become fundamentalist Christians, as many of the comments on this article suggest? The Islamic theocracies of the Middle East display religious fundamentalism at its most horrific, but the Christian theocracies of the Dark and Middle Ages weren't much better. The choice is not between Islam and Christianity, but between mysticism and rationality, God and life.
Valda Redfern, BRADFORD-ON-AVON, UK
Islam needs exactly what happened to Christianity centuries before- reform. Is it still right to mistreat women and cut their civil rights to protect an outdated religion? All this author is stating is her point of view and from what can be seen here is that she is called an islamophobe. I think that those making the comments above should stop and listen rather than judge as quickly as possible. She has lived through it- you haven't.
John Smith, London, Great Britain
No wonder the world is in such a mess, such a barrage of muddled thinking, and these are people who think enough of their thoughts to want to share them. Thank you Times, I assume you have edited as little as possible on these messages in order to make the debate open and representative. I have to say it is worrying to see exactly what is represented. For people to say the repression of women in Afghanistan can be equated with the sex trafficking that can be discerned in, for example, Amsterdam, is too much to swallow; equating a cultural norm with a serious criminal act?
A religion that declares itself a revealed truth is never going to be self-consistent AND open to rational discourse, criticism, growth and change in the way that some "reformers" would like, look at the examples afforded within Xtianity. Reliance on belief as the foundation of a religion denies the options which are available to people who are allowed to think for themselves, tragic, isn't it?
Kidd Garrett , Bristol, UK
Surely this article should have been called "How my eyes were opened to the barbarity of Afghan Tribalism."
A Tribalism that the CIA funded for a long long time.
There are problems with individuals, with families, with groups, with societies even. However it never ceases to amaze me how these difficulties then form our whole image of the religion of 1.5 billion people.
I know plenty of white, western Christian women who have a rough ride, suffer domestic violence, get treated badly. We do not tar the whole of Western society or Christianity with that brush.
Go to Japan - Crown Princess Masako is suffering from depression because she can't produce a male heir. Where's the tirade about Japan and Buddhism...
If we treated people as individuals and stopped painting all communities with one brush, we might get away from the two dimensional entrenched stereotypes of each other and find ways to get along.
Sarah, London, UK
yes as westerners we must stand up and say what is happening in the name of Islam to women is wrong regardless of whether it is based on religion or culture. But we must start in our own country by not being frightened of saying that certain practices are wrong and will not be tolerated in a society where men, women and homosexuals are all equal. We must also realise that fundamentalist Islam is as much a political movement as a religious one and we must be allowed to criticize the religion where we see it clashing with our own values without being accused of racism or blaspheming.
Miranda Forrester, Tysoe, Warwickshire
You are right what you said. Education is an important issue in the Muslim world. But please do not forget not all of the Muslims are barbar. We enjoy in Turkey all the rights what European or American women are entitled to.
cagla, Ankara, Turkey
Gerry, I find it appalling to see (dogmatic) religion in such a glorious light in the 21st century. Not all of them are equally cruel and gore, but to think that Christianity is absent of bestialities is a misconception (read e.g Deuteronomy 13:7-11 or Sam Harris' books). Ms. Chesler is absolutely right, we must defend secularist , Western values or be washed away by medieval hordes.
Balint, Budapest,
Although I fully understand and sympathise with the plight of women who suffer in the name of religion, I can't help feeling that is the people who condone these acts, not the whole religion, that should take the blame.
I admit I have not read the Qu'ran, but I'm sure that it does not condone such treatment of anyone, regardless of gender - it may say something about how men should be above women, but then again, so does the Bible! It is not the religion itself, but the people who abuse its teachings and twist them to their own advantage that are to blame for this sort of occurence.
How is this any different from Christians attempting to 'cure' homosexuals of their 'illness'? Yet no one denounces Christianity as an 'evil' religion, understanding that it is not the religion that is wrong, but those who misinterpret its message. There is nothing wrong with Islam, it is those who abuse it who should take the blame.
Ellie, Birmingham,
SR from Kabul quotes the now familiar mantra in defense of his culture " Islam is the religion of peace ".
If only! - why is it that in so many countries, where Islam is the predominant religion ,there is and always has been, so much trouble, intolerance and barbarism between the various sects of Islam?
tw, shrewsbury, uk
For a distinguished academic and feminist to take such a position a this is to open herself to a wide variety of criticisms. I have admired Ms. Chesler's writings for many years. Still, I think we must separate tribal customs or cultural practices from the religion that can be (mis)used to support them. You see, I don't think it matters terribly whether you mistreat others because of your interpretation of the Koran, the Christians' Bible, or the Torah (or the Rig Veda or anything else for that matter). The crime is the lack of regard for human rights, the acceptance of violence against women, and the knee-jerk assertion that calling something part of your religion places it beyond question or examination. As long as a significant majority of Islamic scholars and leaders collude with barbaric tribal customs that subordinate women, they're tarring the religion of peace with a dark brush indeed.
Naomi, Ashburn, USA/Virginia
Melanie. Yes Christianity has done so as well but only when misguided by their leaders. it in itself does not profess this anger towards ANY other culture or religion , it is not written in its teachings. where as Islam DOES profess "kill the Infidels" and in todays world Christianity or ANY other religion that exist other than Islam and satanism, try to teach peace and forgiveness!! How many Christians have strapped themselves with explosives and walked into a shopping center? How many Buddhist have fired RPG's towards civilian aircraft? How many Hindus have prepared IED's on the side of the road to kill indiscriminately? Please I implore you to open your eyes and call a spade a spade. No one is scapegoating any one , they are just calling it like they see it, it is pathetic that in the 21st century people of ANY religion are willing to kill ANYONE in the name of their (misguided) religion!!!! I personally find it sad for this world to have people like yourself turn a blind eye.
Gerry, St. john, Antigua, WI
I work in Afghanistan, in Kabul...it is even worse than you portray. Arranged marriages between first-cousins, brother and half sister, are common at all levels of this society. The rich readily exploit the poor and they will lie, cheat, and steal if given the slightest opportunity. This truly is a depraved, heathen nation.
Afghan Rebel, Kabul, AF
Anyone who has questions about the simple basis of Chistianity should see Mel Gibson's "The Passion of Christ". The truths uttered by Jesus and His forgiveness during torture unto death may help some understand the true depth of his way. He was a victim of unimaginable terrorist torture, and did not hate his tormentors.
John, Hudson,
To balance the argument, please have a look at todays story in the Independent:
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/africa/article2338358.ece
Essentially, 3 in 4 women in Liberia are raped. Many girls, some as young as 3 have been raped.
Last time I checked, Liberia was overwhelmingly (98%)Christian. However, only a bufoon would suggest that this was down to the Christian religion.
Samuel, UK,
I think her point was Islam is not the religion of peace. It is a violent religion that abuses women because of their gender. Whether it is culture or country it is wrong. Christianity does not preach perversion and that is ludacris, people, individuals preach it and I will say this in closing. I would rather have Christianity preach perversion than Islam beheading and shooting women because God made them with a Vagina. It's sick and twisted.
Robert, Fargo,
I agree with nearly everything said in this great article, except for the following: 'a “noble future for Islam as a personal faith, not a political doctrine” '.
I will go the extra, profoundly unpopular step and say even this is impossible for Islam. Those followers of Islam who are people of good will would do well to free themselves of it entirely, and become followers of Christ.
This happens a lot more than the western media lets on. Many would do it who simply don't have opportunity yet. The core of genuine support for Islam, overall, is probably amazingly soft. It's a semblance of a religion, one ripe for a fall.
Many prophecies from Western Christian mystics point to a re-Christianization of the West under one king, and a war against Islam and Russia, which the West will win. I see the beginning of all this soon.
Mike Burns, Clovis, USA/ New Mexico
Generalising and making no apologies for it, If I criticize a Christian for their beliefs, I can do it on pretty strong terms without fear of unduly emotive or even threatening reprisals. They might even be quite curteous along the lines of, "well, nothing about my religion is beyond debate."
If I criticize a Muslem for their beliefs, on equally strong terms, why do I feel I may be subjected to outright abuse or some other illiberal response? Is it because Muslims tend to feel that their religion is perfect and therefore not subject to debate?
Read her (perfectly liberal and sensible) article again and note how it finishes not with some militant call to bomb Afghanistan but to promote the notion that what we NEED is the freedom to DEBATE ALL THIS RATIONALLY by making judgements on matters without being pigeonholed as reactionary / anti-this / pro-that.
Adam, London,
Interesting article.
However if the writer is waiting for Western (liberal) intellectuals to defend dissidents she will wait a very long time
Courage is not one of their greatest attributes
charlie, hereford,
What ignorance of the roots of our own culture and bigotry against so called "religions" which some of those writing clearly know nothing about. Whether we like it or not, Islam stands light years away from all that our culture stands for. It is different, and admittedly has good points. But without the religion started "2000" years ago etc. we would not have the democracy and freedom of speech to be exchanging views as we are - get your history books out.
Sue O'Brien, London, UK
I am amazed to see such a weak and unrelated article being published. Meanwhile I am surprised a professor has written the piece which indicates the fact that she lacks adequate information about such a big religion (Islam). Initially; her title of the story "Barbarity of Islam" is quite disgusting which only sows seeds of hatred among people of different religions throughout the globe. Secondly; she must know that Islam is the religion of peace and has granted women not only equal rights but a honourable position in the society.Whoever commits misdeeds under the pretext of Islam are not called Muslims.
Yes; it should be noted that Afghans take pride in their history that they prepetually defeated foriegn invaders namely the Britishers and the Former Soviet Union. If it was not Afghanistan, by now, communism was prevailing in almost of the world.
iliterate professor! make sure you can distinguish between behaviour of an individual and culture and religion of a nation.
S.R, Kabul , Afghanistan
This Lady went through a difficult situation, yet there are many critics... Thank you for the insight, it took true courage to write this, and I'm glad you made it through unharmed. May the Holy Ghost make His way into your Life.
Chris, Houston, Texas
Islam, which is as I read the Q'ran, a religion of peace. It is what some fundamentalists make of it that causes the trouble, a charge that could also be laid against Christianity. Much of the rant above is not about Islam, but culture and customs, so that the title is unjustifiable.
Tom Fallowfield, Braemar,
Mam I am really surprised to read views of Islam brutality by such learned! Females like you. I think it is if ones future husbands father has 21 wives no sorry girlfriends 3 children many aborted. I think it is good for a 10 year female to date with males and use contraceptives to avoid pregnancy but very shameful to declare that at ‘13 I am still Virgin. Is this freedom or beasteality /hypocrisy. Mam before generalizing it to any religion one try to look into ones own culture. One should be proud of its Culture but should not look with disdain other culture or religion . Rigt to speech should not be hurt other feelings. AMEN
Dr Ali Jafar Abedi, Aligarh, India
I married a man, I knew nothing about.
I moved to a country, I knew nothing about.
I verbal attack a country and its religion because of mistakes I made.
Congratulations...You just fueled a stereotype of what an American is.
Rod Bell, Newton-Le-Willows,
It seems some would rather turn the focus of the discussion away from Muslim women and onto the evils of the west. Also, some are of the opinion that you didn’t do your homework so it’s all your own fault. How pleasant. That does rather miss the point of how women native to Islamic countries who lack any kind of choice are treated, of course.
Ed, Valencia, Spain
I would agree with most of your sightings in Afghanistan. Please do not forget that you willingly went into a country where the rule of law is nothing but deragotory for women.
There's no doubt that things are extremely bad in many parts of Afghanistan but not to forget that whatever was going on & is going on there has a lot to do with illiteracy.
A lot of people there don't understand Islam properly or they take its meaning to its extreme. Just like we got extremists or fundamentalists in every society, we got some bad apples in our society as well.
As far as the apartheid between the opposing sexes is concerned, well there's a religious and logical side to it. That doesn't mean that women and men are completely separated but in terms of sexuality. It's good for the society or else we know what can happen when you have an extreme liberal society like the Western society where half of the people get kids without a marriage and the future of those kids is ruined.
Umer Sheikh, Lahore, Pakistan
My dear, being a Muslim or following real Islam are 2 completely different things. A lot of things going on ( like in Afghanistan ) are done because of local customs and traditions rather than Islam itself. Islam is the religion that has given utmost respect to a women as a mother, wife, sister and daughter and at least that's what the real preachings are. Now if people dont follow that or twist things around to suit themselves it does not mean Islam is barbaric.
As far as your case is concerned, i can understand a bitter experience in life has left its scars on you and understandably so but blaming Islam is not the right thing to do as you probably made a mistake yourself. Women from here cant adjust in countries like Pakistan ( that is far more developed ) let alone you went to Afghanistan. The man probably needed a passport and you gave him that.
Tthousands of men in Britain every year beat up their wives and they are not Muslims. would you Accuse ISLAM for that as well....
Danish Aziz, Slough, UK
I agree with the ideas raised in the comments that you have incorrectly based your judgment on an entire religion of nearly 1.2 billion people with your analysis on a country that barely constitutes 2.5% of that total. Afghanistan has been war torn and has lacked a sound economic and social structure for a very long time now so such 'barbarism' comes as no surprise. It often pays off to do research on Islam (or any religion for that matter) by oneself.. Overall - quite unfortunately, a classic case of gross generalization in the above article
M. Lehmann, New York City, USA
It's so good to know that Muslims have gathered together to counteract the hatred spread by fanatics. Let's see if they get any major media coverage or will just be marginalized. After all, violence and destruction make news not the coming together of moderates with an agenda of understanding and personal religious freedom.
Carily, Bonneau, USA/SC
Wow, the comments are back. Will they stay? Being able to see just 10 comments at the time completely skews the discussion (did you read all 215 comments, Melanie?).
You're talking about the past now, Melanie. The Christians are a lot more enlightened now than they were during the cruisades and the Spanish inquisition. Maybe in another 500 years (eek!), the Muslims will be the same, who knows (note: I'm not overly fond of either Christianity or Islam, to be honest).
Starling, Lancaster, UK
I sympathize with the writer, for the conditions she had to face after marriage. I can imagine how dreadful and terrible it must have been. But at the same time I completely disagree with the Title of this News..."How my eyes were opened to the barbarity of Islam".
You cant generalize Islam as being barbaric because of the epxerience with one person. In fact Islam teaches to treat mothers / wife / sisters / or any other female with utmost respect.It teaches to refrain from verbally / physically abusing person(s).
It is not the religion , it is due to ignorance and misinterpretations of the teachings that certain people start behaving in certain ways in the name of religion.
Sals, London,
What Phyllis Chesler write is true and under the eyes of everybody, still our decadent Western society hates itself so much that denies anything to do with Islam and blames as always the US and Israel as the Evil ones. I will suggest a good book to understand Islam, called "The rage and the pride" by Oriana Fallaci, in Italy alone she sold a million copy even if the Leftish TVs and the newspapers tried their best to portray Ms Fallaci as a racist.
Valerio, London, uk
It would appear that most people criticising Phyllis are either Muslims living in a nice, safe western society, who are protected by the law (as opposed to being suppressed by Sharia) or those that seem to think that Phyllis should have Googled her husbands family to find out what they are really like. Presumably she took the assurances that her husband gave her at face value, after all, he was her husband and she loved him, but should have disbelieved every word he said. Those supporting the article are also mostly living in a safe, western society, where they are free to criticise, without fear of death, wouldn't dream of having their wifes passport removed and who generally treat their partners as equals, without feeling the need to blame everything on Israel. Unfortunately, should this country ever become a Muslim country, these privations will be visited upon millions of women, and the result of appeasement by other religious leaders and government ministers takes us that way.
David Leslie, Perth, Scotland
I think that the title of the article is a bit misleading because the experiences in the article were cultural and not religious. It does seem strange that the writer did no research about her future husband or home at all. To move somewhere without any knowledge about the place seems irresponsible for a person who has been to college and is planning to make such a drastic step.
Also I don’t know why Israel was mentioned in the article, it has nothing to do with what is being discussed. I think the lesson is to have more knowledge about a place before making the drastic step of moving there.
Mariam , London, England
Hey Ayse,
"kill the unbeliever wherever you find them........"
Now where did I read that, was it the Bible or was it the Koran?
If you dont know, perhaps Asim could enlighten us.
david, london, England
Hey David,
"Kill the Jews wherever you find them" was ordered when the Jews of Madina having entered into a contaract with the Muslims that required them to fight the enemies of Muslims along with Muslims joined hands with the non Muslims who had attacked the Muslims of Madaina.
In war situations people were/are shot on the spot by their own even when they just refuse/refused to attack the enemy because they are scared or cannot kill another human being.
M S Sheikh, London, UK
are there any positive views on islam, we can debate?
colin, burton, uk
I'm reading all the above comments and I think it is pathetic to see so many people in the 21st century with the ideas you are displaying. It's easy to target muslim in this day and age as they are the scapegoat for everything. Whereas we Christians who are so forgiving and have never historically converted by the sword or killed people in the name of Jesus are so much more openminded and 'enlightened'. It is a disgrace. And anyone who has any rservations about the possible horrors of our own religion and culture needs only to look at the old US of A and it will all become clearer.
Melanie, Leeds, UK
You're not a racist or an islamophobe. But you need to get a grip on yourself...
First up, you married somebody it turned out you didn't know properly. Don't fret, it happens all the time. Even in same-culture marriages. Don't get bitter.
Second up, is Afghanistan barbaric because it is politically and economically backward, because it is muslim, or because of its own indigenous customs?
Personally, I don't know. But nor do you, really. You're rather glib in attributing causes to what you don't like. Not every muslim is like Afghanistan.
Marcus, London,
I couldn't agree more with you - this liberal acceptance and guilt about all things African and/or Islamic is dreadful. We see the same things happening in South Africa and Zimbabwe - where are all those Western liberals and intellectuals who campaigned against white rule? Do they now condemn the dreadful corruption and mismanagement of these countries now.
michelle, durban,
I think title must be like this "How my eyes were opened to the barbarity of AFGHAN MAN " .
You did two biggest mistakes of your life , married to a MAN without meeting his family ( you already knew his is afghan )
Second you decided to move to afghanistan to live with charming, seductive and Westernised Afghan Muslim ( MAN) without doing proper research about his friends and family in afghanistan for me is strange to do it like that and i suppose you already knew about women suffering in iran , india ,afghanistan , peru , colombia , Etc. any way i suppose after your adventure trip you have good story .
Mark, Gdansk, Poland
It sounds harsh - but buyer beware.
Danny of Adelaide, adelaide, Australia
I have to question the role of Islam versus the local cultural norms being barbaric - what passed as Islamic writ in Afghanistan and Pakistan does not appear significant in Turkey or Tunisia for example. At the same time, it is evident that selective teachings within Islam do have a role in promoting barbarism in these areas.
Andy, London, UK
In no religion is there a requirement for religious buildings, religious organisations, dress regulation, mass worship. Religions, atheism, agnosticism, philosophy, are and should remain just ones own personal beliefs. Their transformation into sects, with all the trimmings is what has caused the majority of wars for the past 2000+ years.
Graham, St.Cyprien, France
It is telling that meny of the comments condemming the article are written by moslems who live in non moslem countries.
Moslem women in the west should remember, they are protected by western