Bill from Las Vegas, do you think blacks should not be given free rein? Is the country becoming overrun with them? Maybe slavery should be reinstated?

Its people like you that really need the education this article makes an attempt towards. Whilst it does have condescending undertones, it is well intentioned and should get through to you if you think hard enough.

'Black' and 'white' people are simply a perception. In this day and age of mixed cultures, colours and creeds you will be hard pressed to find a person of african / carribean origin who has been been brought up uninfluenced by other cultures, just like someone from a white culture will no doubt have grown up having received to a degree some influence from black culture, at least through popular media.

Learn this: There is no more black. There is no more white.

A. Blackman, London, UK, UK

When the white teachers at my daughters' school stop telling her that because of her "background" she is overly ambitious, despite gaining a place at university.

Then she will be free.

When security guards stop loitering behind me in shops as I attempt to purchase goods; and following my return to Britain after a holiday, and immigration officials stop asking me if I'm a Somali muslim, whilst holding my British passport aloft.

Then I will be free.

Dawn, Manchester,

Maggie Millington, you don't seem to have read or grasped what Andrew Anthony was saying - he brings up the issue of his interview with Derek Laud precisely to show his own previously unacknowledged prejudices. Also, your own unconscious racism is quite striking - Africans are uniformly handsome/beautiful, elegant and dignified (the old orientalist Noble Savage stereotype), white people are ugly loud-mouthed drunks, etc. I too am a white woman, and have travelled fairly widely, in Africa and elsewhere. I've met lovely people around the world, as well as arrogant and boorish ones, with neither positive or negative attributes being specific to any one colour, ethnicity or race - and as far as looks go, they are, like colour, ethnicity, race, etc, never a reliable guide to personality. Perhaps it's you who needs to look beyond skin colour (and physical beauty) rather than Mr Anthony. People are people, it's not rocket science.

Rose Qishta, Hawalli, Kuwait

"bill from las vegas, what is your point exactly" - tom, london

Just that slavery is alive and kicking because the victims are white, 'good liberals' have given blacks free rein due to white guilt.

It is also another good example of blacks put their 'blackness' first.

bill, las vegas, usa

Non-European minorities in developed countries need to realise that they are living in far more inclusive societies than the ones they have left. In my list, I am not including Russia, areas once known as East Germany, Poland and many former communist countries. Ironic, isn/t it, that they are far more racist than the so-called "capitalist" countries!! Race would continue to remain a factor everywhere, but, with every passing year, at least, in English-speaking countries, it is getting better. As many Indian families, such as mine, realise, "none owes you a living - you work hard for what you want, abide by the law and public ethics of the people around you". I held strong views adverse to "white societies" in the 60s and 70s, in the then Britain. Now, after having lived in several other countries, I have formed a different judgment. Non-European minorities have a reasonable chance now to make it good in the Anglo-Saxon world if only they stop complaining, focus on excellence.

Kris iyer, Wellington, Newzealand.

<em>Our sole obligation, it seems, is simply not to say or do anything that might be construed as racist. Where on earth did you get the idea that was your sole obligation? The obligation of *every* member of a diverse society is to learn as much as possible about their fellow racial and ethnic groups. By doing so they can avoid falling prey to the kinds of racist stereotypes that infect your thinking and the thinking of ethnic people as well, which are perpetuated in the media and education and everywhere else (because that's how racism works). To wit, I'd like to recommend a good US book on the subject of how and why black kids sometimes sabotage themselves -- Beverly Tatum's WHY ARE ALL THE BLACK KIDS SITTING TOGETHER IN THE CAFETERIA? It holds some important lessons that I think could apply in both the US and the UK. Learn. Speak from a position of knowledge, not ignorance. THAT is your obligation.

Nora, New York City, USA

Why do so many Black men when becoming rich and famous hook up with White girls? their in is your answer.

Michael Campbell , londonderry, n ireland

Russell from Woldingham,
I am a black person who reads this paper and other broadsheets, please educate yourself as your comment shows you are unaware of who black people are. The article is excellent and succinct.

D Gordon, London, UK

The journey of those whose descendants were to become the 'indigenous white british' is one of assimilation, interbreeding and a move towards a shared culture.

It is an entirely racist point of view to consider that when people who happen to have a particular set of physical characteristics engage in this same process, that they are somehow betraying 'their culture'.

The truth is that black people live in many diverse cultures around the world. There's nothing wrong with the black people who happen to live in British culture from behaving like British people.

If, in the process, we are all changed by that process, then wonderful.

The cultural ghettos that are growing in our country are built from within, not enforced from without; there's even an entire industry that has grown up around the reinforcement of cultural and ethnic stereotypes, resulting in the bizarre racist declarations by people claiming to speak on behalf of 'all black people'...

Andy B, London,

Why is it that the "black" (I've no idea what to call this race as a collective as we have African-Americans, African-British, Afro-Caribbean, etc.) people have such a chip on their shoulder? I am not offended when asked to reveal my race, and the only choice is "white". The Jews, who have been gravely persecuted within the last 100 years, don't seem to have an issue and blame "whites" for their every problem. The Japanese, who were rounded up in the US during WWII, don't seem to have been pulled down. Women have got over an entire history of humanity of being second citizens, and yet seem to manage quite well these days. Yes, there has been slavery, and yes it was bad. But honestly, if you look at history, every single segment of society at one time or another has been persecuted. Get over it! Move on! The chip on the shoulder thing is old and just holds "blacks" back. Move forward..."blacks" can do or be anything just the same as anyone else.

Jennie F., Dinan, France

Perhaps the truth is that we are humans first and anything else afterwards.

Miland Joshi, Birmingham,

"I am gobsmacked !" - Maggie

Dont tell me, i think i know who it was...he was a tall, dark and handsome naked black man with a huge...?

bill, las vegas, usa

What you don't seem to realize is that you don't have to think "I'm white" every day because the majority of people look just like you. For black people and other racial minorities, our otherness is the first thing that's seen. But, unlike what you seem to think, my black identity is not some hurdle that needs to be overcome. The problem is that we're taught to ignore the presence of black and brown figures who explored the importance of having various manifestations of ethnic consciousness so that all we're left with are the reinforced stereotypes. We're supposed to remain "exotic", so that everyone (liberals too) don't have to think critically about the problem of race and racism in our society. Whites can discuss racism, but you cannot tell us how we should act without looking at how white Western culture has created an institution of oppression (and it doesn't have to be conscious or have malicious intent.) Your final statement is shocking, not to mention insulting.

IM, Lanham, USA

Maggie Millington from france is a perfect example of a 'BCL'

bill, las vegas, usa

You can apply the same logic to a large number of groups. I had a lot if interaction with Scottish nationalist groups in the 1960s and early 1970s and there was a very similar tendency to adopt national stereotypes as a lynchpin of identity. Angry young men who thought we should stop speaking the language of the oppressor and hold meetings in Gaelic, for example. More troubling was the reactionary battle for ownership of a national/cultural/racial identity. You could probably mirror similar battles in the Jewish community. In this mindset, groups are defined by their sense of injury and their identity is shaped by it. That can never be healthy.

Niel Slater, Edinburgh,

I think the comments are almost as eloquent than the article. This is a sensible and sensisitive piece of writing about the causes and effects of racial sterotyping and the author relates an episode when he did precisely that in order to illustrate his point. Half the comments posted continue this theme - the other are from people who have rushed to take as much offence as they can without actually considering what Andrew Anthony is actually saying. It is a sad microcosm of the whole race debate. We MUST be able to talk in an mature way about an issue that is so strewn with pitfalls. But taking petulent offence at words in the article completely out of context isn't the way to do it.

Roddy Campbell, Whangarei, New Zealand

an excellent article. i wholeheartedly agree. Very few well meaning liberals realise how patronising and sometimes downright insulting their attempts to be "aware" and "understanding" of issues facing ethinic minorities can be. What is wrong with taking someone on their personality instead of their skin colour and apparent cultural heritage?

Jenny, London,

True freedom comes when a black person can evaluate the black culture, select the aspects they believe are good and promote a better quality of life, and reject any aspects they perceive to be keeping them from fulfilling their God-given purpose. They can also study and learn a few things (though not necessarily everything) from other cultures. As far as I can see, no single culture has it all together 100 percent.

I am black and it is a part of me that I cannot deny; however, on the inside, I am more than "merely" black. My individuality is at least as important, if not more important than my racial identity.

Carol Lazarus, New York, USA

As a black male, I constantly have to listen to other blacks go on about how hard they've 'got it', how they'd only vote for such and such a politician if they appear to 'do stuff' for black people.

Basically, they are drowning in a sea of self-pity and are looking for someone else to assist them in life. Contrast this with the Chinese, Indians and Jews who all had to and are still facing prejudice - albeit in more subtle ways - but manage to be among the most successful people around. Strong cultures seem to produce successful people.

My role models would make many of my black acquaintances recoil in horror: Warren Buffett, Michael Bloomberg to name a few. They are drawn from other races, shock/horror!

Jay, London, UK

What Mr Laud's story ultimately shows is that the racial equality industry has its luddite tendencies like any other. If the raw material needed by your business is racially defined unequal groups, then those groups and the inequalities must continue to exist and, and here's the luddite part, the characteristics of those groups should not change so that you don't have to reskill.

Mr Laud hints at the possibility that people are not defined by the colour of their skin (although the enthusiasm with which white youths adopt the dress and speech patterns of black Americans might have given a clue).

No wonder the racial equality industry would rather destroy the evidence.

Simon Richards, Brussels,

I think Derek Laud should be held up as an example and that is why I'm campaigning to get him elected! Sadly not as London mayor as Boris has that one sewn up, so next stop parliament!

You can read more about Derek at www.dereklaud.com

Simon, London, London

"Geneticists almost universally agree that race has extremely limited meaning in any biological sense. "

Not so. Of course, we still get Lewontin's mantra of "more variation between and within", even though it has long been debunked. The "no gene for race" argument is utterly specious, as is the current left-fashion for avoiding distinctiveness via genetic clines while wholly ignoring clusters.

The quantitative genetics evidence is there, indicating for example that heritability for cognitive ability is high (0.4-0.8) based on MZ twin studies, adoption studies and much else besides. The molecular genetics is far less tractable for reasons which make genetics beyond identifying SNPs generally so difficult, so the precise alleles/QTLs have not been identified. But it will come

Guessedworker, Lewes, Sussex, England

I am gobsmacked ! this article has enraged me !
I am a white woman, & the first thing I see when looking at a black person is, their beautiful skin, especially [ since you mention him ] Darek Lauds skin, we whites spend fortunes in time & money trying to look tanned .
Then your comments of ' looking in the mirror ' thinking he's black , what utter rot as you recognise too , we dont think , ' oh I am white this morning',
You are the problem here, why cant you see the man? & get rid of your prejudice, it's not racism to recognise difference, but it is prejudice which blocks your vision & not to see beyond skin colour,
White skin is ghastly with all it's blotches & imperfections, we must look inferior to a black person who are smooth usually taller, with amazing teeth & elegant.
In all the years I have been traveling to Africa it's their dignity which is so striking.
Your veiled criticism of black on the outside & white inside, what arrogance,whites are drunken, unruly,vomiting, louts !

Maggie Millington, Brittany , France

I really object to the patronising way in which Anthony Andrews says almost all liberal anti-racists carry around a set idea of what being black means. Surely we've moved on from that. And look at the way in which the youths invoved in inter-gang violence in Liverpool, at least those portrayed on TV yesterday, are virtually (or perhaps wholly) white. He's perpetuating more stereotypes himself in this piece, which has a discernible anti-black undercurrent. But then I supose Anthony is having to squeeze the maximum out of his book, which from what I have read of it in the papers is simplistic stuff, which depends on caricaturing liberals who, unlike Anthony, have not seen the light. The people I mix with most are I suppose "liberals" in Anthony's sense, but they have a diverse set of opinions, attitudes, and are not knee-jerk anti-American, politically-correct zombies incapable of critical thought.

susie, London, UK

I am a black male and I agree whole heartedly with Jonathan. The problem is that we as blacks are heading down a slippery slope into oblivion if we carry on peddling the common stereotype that we have been for the last 3 decades. It's a new century, let's find a new identity for our children's sake before it's too late, The status quo is not working!!

ANDREW EZEA, HACKNEY, LONDON

I agree with the author. A middle-class black person can find him or herself trapped between both sets of constraints. Not "black enough" to be accepted as black by other black people; not "black enough" to be accepted as genuine by white people. Recall the remark of one contestant in the Apprentice to the eventual white male winner about the only black female candidate: "You are blacker than Jadine."

True freedom is being able to choose who you are from the various aspects of your identity available to you.

MS, London,

Personally I have never understood why the labels black and white have been so readily accepted. The terms are diametrically opposed and carry so many other connotations, and yet there are incredibly few people who are genuinely black. Most are just various shades of brown, and the only genuinely white people are those who have never seen the sun. Many so called whites are also just a lighter shade of brown. It is too simple, very divisive and not anywhere near accurate to divide people into just two camps.

John Grant, London,

The problem is rightly identified in this article as stereotyping - well meant and not directly offensive like Jim Davidson or Bernard Manning but almost because of that even worse for helping true equality.

Trying to over compensate, to make excuses and set lower targets is more disenfranchising than using a slang name or a comedy accent - offensive stereotyping raises hackles and sets a challenge, inoffensive stereotyping demeans and emasculates and is ultimately more disempowering. I once worked in an aid agency - one of the most mixed and diverse workplaces and yet I believe there was greater racism from the well meaning white "liberals" that made up the bulk of the workforce than I have seen anywhere else

I also agree that the problem is evolving into a problem primarily for black men, black women have made far greater strides in dealing with "racism" effectively, and through hard work and sacrifice rather than any external schemes.

Really tough problem. Good article.

Benjamin, Gloucester,

Brilliant article. But the people who need to read it don't read this paper and if they did, they wouldn't understand it, they'd just shout racist.

Russell, Woldingham, Surrey

".. a large part of the racism that I witnessed came from within black communities themselves, where low expectations and cultural stereotypes were often aggressively enforced."

Absolutely, Andrew. Spot on. Many black people are stuck because they seek answers to their lives outside of themselves. But the key to their positive development lies next to the barriers they place inside their heads about what it means to be 'black' in a society that sees their colour first instead of their persona, coupled with the low confdence, low aspirations, lack of hope and naked fear they have.

Anyone in this world can be anything they wish to be, regardless of cultural background. But the journey of success begins inside our heads, with the quality of thoughts we harbour regarding our talent, potential, degree of self-love and self-worth and the value and appreciation we receive. Once we restrict our thoughts to fit certain stereotypic types we restrict our growth too.

Elaine Sihera, Maidenhead, United Kingdom

Articles such as this lend credence to the notion that there is such a thing as "blackness" or "whiteness".

"For in reality, almost all of us good liberal anti-racists carry around a set idea of what being “black” entails: physically strong, non-academic, in some way anti-authority and of course promiscuously heterosexual."

Do we? I suggest you get out more Mr Anthony.

"........when we talk about someone being “black” the word tends to suggest far more than a description of skin colour...."

Speak for yourself Mr Anthony.

JC, London, UK

Please can you not refer to Black / African-Carribean people as 'Blacks' for a start, I find this very offensive.
By all means have your opinon Andrew Anthony, but I for one will not be taking on board what you feel as being the 'truth'.
Let all of you so called 'good liberal anti racists' speak for your own communities and readdress your attitudes. If you think that black entails traits such as 'physicallly strong, non acedemic..' please educate yourselves and stop the ignorance!

N. Ibe, London, England

why does the author of this think that society has become ''less racist'' (whatever that means)? not only are ''liberals'' often highly racist but possibly the majority of the UK population would not be described (by themselves or others) as liberal anyway. as a mixed-race (though not black) person myself, living in a middle-class area in Oxford, and having lived 4 years in affluent areas of London, I nevertheless have encountered racist attitudes on a regular, depressing basis.

Me, oxford,

If I hate calling myself as "coconuts" , why should some manchurian, yellow skinned mongoloid guy be called " bananas". Such racist remarks are highly pejorative and slanderous , and they tear apart our society into fragments and groups. Like it or not, we hate to hear such comments or ethnic slurs, yet we all keep propagating them and harbor such racist feelings in our bosoms. I'm not a social philanthropist who would yell and blow up my trumpets for equality and universal brotherhood for all, irrespective of caste, creed, color or sex.......nor am I a follower of Martin Lutherian philosophy with " I have a dream" kind of utopian approach. We live in a real world, with real people, with their sentiments and emotions attached and engrained in their mind sets. It would be too high, airy-fairy and idealistic to see a black kid and a white child, growing together like play-mates and soul brothers.It may sound sardonic and unsavoury, but reality bites and kick our butts with truth.

Witty, New Delhi, India

bill from las vegas, what is your point exactly

tom, london,

Lets change his statement to:

...this self-dramatising idea of blackness often re-enforced by blacks, whites and the establishment has helped to create a mental ghetto that is every bit as debilitating and limiting as the real ghettos...

dra, islington,

There's nothing to be ashamed of for being a 'coconut', it is actually something to be proud off. You embrace two cultures at once, I am an Indian who has been accepted as a Rastafarian while attending a fine independant school. I have managed to embrace my Hindu culture, with the life of a Rastafarian but gaining the behaviour and manners of the 'white' folk. I am accepted by all the communties i represent so there is no need for you ' coconuts' to worry. The vast majority of this plant looks beyond your skin colour and accepts you for who you are.

Swishi, Edgware, London

Words like 'coconut' (outside brown inside white) and 'banana' (outside yellow inside white) are themselves racists and fascistic, they suppose that people are defined entirely by their skin colour, and that those who strayed outside their skin-colour-defined identity are traitors, contemptible, and inferior. To those who use those term, people should not be allowed to choose their own culture and destiny. Those words are racist abuse and should be treated as such.

hazh, Oxford,

Andrew, You hit the mark spot on. I'm a black Briton born in London of mixed race parentage from Jamaica. Only my eldest sister tries to conform to the expected norm within the black community and from my point of view this isn't the model of life that I think I want to adopt.

I'm shunned by the black community generally for being too white - but if that is the price I have to pay to maintain my respect and be a succesful individual then so be it.

I would like to think that over time, enough people like me will be role models of how to achieve success without resorting to gang culture.

Tony , CAMBRIDGEHIRE, UK

I guess you haven't visited interracial porn websites on the internet. You'll find that the black man is the master and white women are their slaves.

bill, las vegas, usa

Regarding the academic achievement of Afro-Caribbean boys. I wonder which came first: a selective search for the academic achievement of this group, or the discovery that only boys who had either not improved or declined were in fact Afo-Caribbean? There could be another much simpler explanation. Maybe Afro-Caribbean boys are in general not academically inclined. We measure intelligence in academic terms. There are in fact eight measures of intelligence, including music, art and sport. Maybe their thinking preferences are elsewhere: in doing and activity and vocation rather than academic abstract thought. Only an academic snob would decry that.

Michael Davis, East Preston,

"For in reality, almost all of us good liberal anti-racists carry around a set idea of what being “black” entails: physically strong, non-academic, in some way anti-authority and of course promiscuously heterosexual. And anyone, particularly a male, who does not adhere to these preconceived notions is by definition somehow less black."

You might. I don't. Maybe you were never a good liberal anti-racist?

adam, london,

Indeed. Focusing on Derek Laud's skin colour, (rather than the points he was making at time) and questionning his blackness is surely racist. Would you question my whiteness if I listened to Dr Dre? Was I a traitor to enjoy Bhangra music at a sikh wedding? Oh course not. This is irrelevant and by constantly bringing up these points allows two things to happen: Real racists are granted a lever with which to divide people up along lines of ethnicity and pursue their own neanderthal beliefs, and those people who are constantly being told they are "special" and "oppressed" feel that way, may actively look for evidence and the ensuing culture of victimhood is simply a self-fulfilling prophecy. Yes, Derek Laud can be a role model to black people, equally, so can Tiger Woods, Mo Mowlam, Alan Sugar, Ian Botham, Dianne Abbott, Lakshmi Mittal and anyone who has worked hard and achieved. A Role model is a role model, for all people, regardless of skin colour.

C Cowburn, London,

Laud has a point; not only did the author think of him as black, but his entire article is about that - despite the obvious conclusion that laud has attempted to live his life as a 'person'. Full stop.

chris wheatley, aylesbury, bucks