I do not understand the paranoia. Like many I have held an identity card for years without any concerns or problems. Indeed the benefits have been many. Opening a bank account for example.
In Singapore where I have my IC - walk into bank, show IC wait 5 minutes and walk out with new account and ATM card
In UK - apply to bank where I have had an account for 40 years - go through a rigmarole of proving who I am much of which paper could be forged by any petty criminal with a PC etc etc. It took 3 weeks
In Singapore my IC grants me a discount at government hospitals while in UK its lack guarantees that half the world can walk into our hospitals and Social Sevurity systems

The financial savings from the use of ICs should mean that all cards can be free and that teh first 5 million to apply get a 100 pound bonus

peter, Edinburgh and, Singapore

Your country is being turned into a prison. Really. There's no raison d'être anymore after ID cards. The day Canada imports these, I'm killing myself within the hour.

When my country becomes a jail, my only crime would be to live and breathe? No way. They say don't do the crime if you can't do the time. Then I'll just stop breathing.

Christian Fecteau, Montreal, Canada

Good article - anyone interested in the debate should listen to the Pet Shop Boys track "Integral" off their last album Fundamental. A brilliant piece of songwriting.

chris heinze, Miami, FL,

The point that having an identity is better than having no identity also illuminates this matter, which I submit is somewhat akin to the Millennium bug controversy. It is interesting to observe the type who complains about this identity card because they are effectively saying that the governance of this country is untrustworthy. You will observe that they are the type who is usually doing the opposite. They dwell on the threat to freedoms but an ID card doesn t affect one s freedom. I had one in the army and never noticed the difference. If therefore it is the way they may be misused by the government, then it is time to do something about the way we are governed.

Henry Percy, London, UK

"I, like many commenting here, have lived abroad and had a compulsory ID card in Belgium for 3 years. I don't recall having to produce it even once in that period. " Bill, Ramsey, Cambs

Then why have one?

Continental ID cards, like UK passports, carry only static information that can't corrupt. They are not linked to a surveillance database that can corrupt or be otherwise interferred with, as the UK system will be. And therein lies the problem. I have no concerns with my identity being evidenced by my passport, driving licence etc, which are just bits of printed paper, but I do have concerns about it being recorded on a computer database susceptible to all the weaknesses inherent in such systems. If the data corrupts then my identity will change.

If I suffer loss as a result of computer error I will be able to claim compensation, won't I? I am sure the gov is so confident in the system's infallibilty that they will not give themselves a limitation of liability cop out.

Nick Brooks, Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk

I accept that the praciice of verbalising nouns can sometimes be useful for clarity or economy, but "entropy"? The noun entropy is a scientific term which has several interpretations all of which are precise, but what on earth does the verb mean?

John P.Jones, Bangor, Gwynedd, UK

Imagine the ease at which the government can take money out of bank accounts or withold monies owed for traffic offences or taxes and give you the option of challenging these deductions,which of course will be at a cost ,automatically deducted and then reimbursed if successful after weeks of verbal tennis with officialdom .But this won't happen will it .

alf tupper, sydney, australia

"I have a French ID card that is free and allows me to prove my identity when necessary"
Peter Goddard, Le Rouret, France, EU

If you feel the need to prove your identity to other people that's entirely your own affair and I have no objection to your carrying an identity card but there are many of us who resent the notion of having to prove anything so I hope you don't object to us not carrying one.
This all boils down to how you see the relationship between the state and the individual. Those on the left, are by the very nature of their politics far more inclined to a belief in the authority of the state over the individual and, conversely, those on the right believe the opposite. I know where I stand.

Steve, Birmingham,

As mentioned, compulsory ID cards exist in Europe. I am English living in Spain where everyone has their "DNI" card, I have the same card but written large at the top is the word "extranjeros" (foreigner). Legally you should not leave your home without it. If required by the police you have to present it to identify yourself. In 20 years here I did not need to yet. However, the argument that the ID card helps prevent terrorism does not stop ETA here, nor did it prevent the Madrid train bombings. The "bad ones" are not affected by the rules.

Roy Craven, Near Barcelona, Spain

the real problem is we do not trust the goverment

the people in charge have been watching to much star trek
and think it is real and all the problems can be fixed in 10min

they just do not know how complex a system it would need to be. To make it secure and fast it would need it's own national hi speed network. As running it over the internet would not be a great idea.

then there are finger print readers what happens when they stop working because of the oil and skin off of fingers

also a huge data base of medical records and dna would be of great interest to a drug company. Cash for access? and who would know and as this goverment bends over backwards for the US I Bet the CIA will have a full access login

and the best bit about is they will make you have one but make you pay £200 for it

knight, aberdeen, uk

Why do we need them?

mount, dorset, gb

If Prof Angell had to spend a morning trying to prove his identity to his bank I would have thought he should be able to see the advantage of having a small plastic card that would have resolved the dispute within 5 minutes.

Alan, London, UK

The whole scheme is sick.

My fingerprints, iris pattern, DNA or whatever details of my person they intend to record on these 'biometric' cards are my property and my business. They are a part of my freedom and my existence. Nobody has the right to record them or do anything else with them.

I have no intention of getting an ID card or even a biometric passport and will resist both as long as I can, but I'm terrified by the fact that I may well be forced into having them.

Our freedoms are being taken from us in the name of our safety, but will form another means of control with no real benefit.

I would vote to stop this process, and I hope I get the opportunity to do so.

Fraser McClennan, Sunderland,

the id card will take what little freedom we have left in this 'open prison' we call england

Steve, Greewich, UK

The ultimiate id theft is the microchip on either the right hand or forehead the New World Order wants for us in order to watch our daily movements. We see this new system in Revelation 13:16-18 and 14:9-11 and the Bible clearly says we are not to receive it lest we align ourselves with the coming world antichrist. The antichrist is not on the world stage at the present time though his system marches before him. I expect he will be European and far worse than Mr. A. Hitler.

G.Gibson, Sydney, Australia

I am an IT professional. I would like to know what technology is going to be able to service the thousands of requests per second that will arrive at this erntral database?

If the data will not be held on a central database, but rather on many distributed databases, when and how will they be amalgamated?

Not technology will be available for 2022, never mind 2010 or even 2012, to answer these requirements.

It will never happen, no matter how many times Jaqui Smith or Gordon Brown wisht it. It is not an option.

Edwin, Bucharest,

I have tried posting this 4 times... you obviously aren't that interested in views of those who are in favour... tut tut.

I am totally in favour of ID cards.

I have English and French nationality. I have a French ID card that is free and allows me to prove my identity when necessary, but better than that I can travel throughout the Union without a passport: perfect so what/where is the problem?

When I travel between England and France or anywhere in the Union I just use my French ID card; I would hate to have to use a passport, I would feel like a foreigner!

Although I am English, I always use my French ID card to prove identity because the English don't have one....

Surely this is a no brainer.. let's make life simple.. Where can I apply for my English ID card?

Peter Goddard, Le Rouret, France, EU

ID cards are an assault on our liberty. Fundamentally they are about the state deciding who we are and what we may do. They are a control freak’s dream.

But what's worse is that everyone with any experience of large, complex IT systems knows that they will fail. The politicians know they will fail, the civil servants know they will fail, the IT vendors know they will fail. But rather than accept that it's been a colossal mistake and a vast waste of taxpayers money, this failed government struggles on hoping that if they keep throwing money at it them then problems won’t surface until it’s somebody else’s watch.

Ian, London, UK

There is an amazing silence from these politicians when they are asked how mistakes will be corrected. Perhaps these mistakes will be deliberate to produce the ultimate stealth tax. If your Identity database entry does not match you completely, then the property you "own" is not yours. Therefore it belongs to the government!
House - lost, car - lost, bank account - lost, all due to some simple mistake, and as this mistake is the legal entity there is no appeal! Simple isn't it.
Conspiracy yes, but the thing has no other useful purpose we can be told, and certainly none of the fool MPs know how this database will prevent identity theft or terrorism. What other conclusion can there be?

Davezawadi, Belfast, UK

Could there be a better reason to elect another goverment one who would get rid of this nonseense, I have emailed my mp about it no less than 10 times now and she has yet to right back to me once, obivousley mps no longer give a dam about what we think.

Mr W Jones, wirral, England

Sorry, but I don't think saying you have, 'nothing to hide' is the issue or a good enough reason to go ahead with ID cards. Most people don't have anything to hide - its about ownership and control of our identity and personal details.

If you trust the government to control access to your personal information as they see fit, if you think they will do a good job managing your identity on your behalf well then you can rest easy...

Personally ,I agree with Prof. Angell. I want to be in control of my identity - I do not want to hand responsibility over to the government . I am more proficient at managing my identity than they are, therefore I will be more vulnerable to crime with government ownership of my identity.

Wyn, Liverpool,

I already have a right to access healthcare etc, it is called taxation. Or is the government saying we can opt out of paying tax if we do not have an ID card.

As for illegal immigrants, it is the job of the Home Office to stop them at the border. Again we pay taxa in order that they may do so.

As for stopping terrorism, how many terrorists have woken up and though they would not plant a bomb because they have an ID card?

Anne, Liverpool,

I already have a government issued id.
It includes all the personal detail needed to establish that I am who I say I am, and is accepted worldwide.

It is my passport.

Why the hell do I need a second id?

Mr H, Taunton,

I didn't vote for a government that wants to implement ID cards. In fact, statistically, only a small minority of people actually voted for the government we have today. Why then will I be forced to accept this horrible system? Is that the democracy we keep telling other people around the world they have to adopt? If so you can keep it.

I and many others will be quite happy to get a criminal record for not having a compulsory ID card in the future (oh, yes they're coming make no mistake). Has anyone factored in the cost of prosecuting us all? It will make criminals of many otherwise innocent people.

I will not own an ID card and simply wil not do what a minority elected government tries to force me to do. I don't care about ID cards in Spain. This isn't Spain. If people like ID cards go and live there. And for all those who 'have nothing to hide', go and live in glass houses so we can all see what you're up to. After all, you've got nothing to hide have you?

Ross Woodhouse, Brighton, UK

As I have no doubt that MPs will decline to have to use ID cards, to go with all the other inconveniences of life they don't like, it'll not worry them if the system were to be introduced.

David Leslie, Perth, Scotland

If it's such a good idea, how come nobody wants it? As a hard-working law-abiding citizen, like most people in Britain, I simply have no need to give my details to the Labour government, and therefore will just refuse to do so.

If you've got nothing to hide, then they've got nothing to gain by having your information.

Adam Wilde, Hastings,

The arguments are well put, vastly better than the opposition politicians. I've said from the start that this scheme is a solution desperately searching for a problem. For a system to cost (on HMG estimates) >£5bn and not have a useful purpose is a pretty damning indictment of this administration.

Stuart, London,

If a criminal steals for credit card number, you can get a new one. If your biometric details are stolen, you are screwed for life!

James, London,

I don't see what's the problem.
A lot of countries have been using the ID cards without a complaint. In fact, it's very convenient in showing your own identity. Thieves can be everywhere, and they can steal passport if not ID cards. What a lame excuse!!

Kyle, Durham, England

"I have nothing to hide". As an IT professional please let me assure you - you do. These cards are going to contain a lot of information that you wouldn't want other people having unauthorised access to...and that will, without a shadow of a doubt - happen. "The government will secure my data". No, they can't. It's not possible. I appreciate it might be hard to believe NO computer system is safe. Look at the money the film, music and computer software people pour into copy right protection...do they secure their data? Do you think the government can do a better job...have you seen their track record in IT projects?

Iain Dobson, edinburgh, uk

Of course most of this will not now happen until after the next election. Knowing how inept the Government & Civil Service are at negotiating contracts with consultants, what's the betting they will allow a ruinous penalty clause to be inserted so that, if the Conservatives manage to win the next election and cancel the project, the deep pockets of the taxpayers will once again have to be raided to pay for yet another white elephant.

I, like many commenting here, have lived abroad and had a compulsory ID card in Belgium for 3 years. I don't recall having to produce it even once in that period.

Bill, Ramsey, Cambs

The problem isn't the id card or the database. As several commentators have already pointed out, the only real problem in this country is the government's arrogant belief in its own infallibility. That was called the divine right of kings up until the English Civil War. Just after that it caused severe problems in France. Just under a hundred years ago it got the Czar of all the Russias executed.
Parliament was supposed to rid us of government by unqualified arrogance based on might is right. None of the subsequent promises by MPs were kept either.

KR, Stockport,

<<< As I have nothing to hide it serves to identify me for any financial or official transaction and to avoid identity theft. >>>

So you wouldn't object to 24 hour surveillance?

I would say that as I have nothing to hide I therefore have no need for an ID card.

And as has been pointed out, the ID card becomes your only means of identification and if lost / stolen or the data becomes corrupted YOU become an Unperson until it's resolved

And exactly HOW do you prove someone is entitled to a card in the first place - will they have to produce household bills?

alan, edinburgh, uk

I wont be subscribing to ID Cards although I presently have one for university. The one I have doesnt have a hidden agenda. I have absolutely nothing to hide I just wont subscribe to the future of 1984

Mike , Scarborough, UK

People object to ID cards for several reasons. One reason is that BILLIONS of pounds are being spent on this system, so whatever it is there for it had better do a damn good job. However, as usual it will be the innocent who are inconvenienced by the system. The guilty will ignore it - e.g. illegal immigrants, and the impossibility of making the system secure and accurate will be music to criminals ears.

dave le brun, wotton under edge, glos

Presumably the last paragraph should read

"Ian Angell can currently prove he is Professor of Information Systems at the London School of Economics, but if Gordon Brown's government has its way, anyone could be Ian Angell".

Peter, London,

Despite centuries of evidence to the contrary, the mindset of "The State Knows Best" prevails in the Government.

So they've engineered a population dependent on them in a successful attempt to secure their position in spite of their blatantly obvious failings in character, intellect and humility.

The most effective weapon is their education policy - the very last thing they want is educated free-thinking individuals, but the bigger the lie the more they need to repeat it.

Cheers, bread and circuses all round then.

Powerless Serf, Oceania,

I am totally in favour of ID cards and do not understand the problems raised except for the inefficiency and lack of security of the government departments in the UK. A big problem I admit. I have had dual nationality-British/Spanish for the last 40 years and was issued with my Spanish ID card at that time. As I have nothing to hide it serves to identify me for any financial or official transaction and to avoid identity theft. If used in the UK it would serve to identify beneficiaries of state benefits and to avoid fraudulent claims and to keep track of immigrants. Also, on the subject of frontier controls, I fail to understand why passports are not scanned when leaving the UK. Surely it is important to also know when a person leaves the country and not only when they enter.

Heather, Madrid,

Prof. Angell hits the nail on the head. The Home Office's wants us only to have access to health-care, banking or other services with the database's permission. The department even boasts about it on its web site:

http://www.identitycards.gov.uk/how-idcard-daily-transferring.asp

Now picture the other part of this scenario that they didn't document:

"Just slide your ID card in here Sir & type your PIN. Oh dear, for some reason your ID card has been declined. I'm afraid you're not allowed to withdraw money from your account today. No, I'm afraid I've no idea why. Yes, I know it's your money. No, there's nothing I can do about it - the Home Office computer says 'No'. Well, I'm sorry, but it's nothing to do with the bank, and there's nothing I can do about it. Look, if you don't mind, Sir, I do have other people to attend to. Next!"

Centralising this this level of control over our everyday lives is pure folly. The ID scheme must be scrapped, immediately.

Andrew Watson, Cambridge,

such distinguished company our home secretary finds herself in - the gestapo, the starsi, the kgb.

d cheesman, purbeck,

so ian, you say we wouldn't use a gas bill with a mistake in the address to prove our addresses? but you are trying to tell me that if the i.d. card has a mistake that obvious that we wouldn't get it changed immediately?

I think each of us individually would make far greater effort to check the information about ourselves on this single system was accurate compared to the total lack of effort we generally make with regard to gas bills, credit reports and the hundred and one other systems that (in case you have your head buried in the sand) already exist.

how many people do you know who, for example, regularly check out experian, etc, for mistakes? and these reports actually affect our lives in very important ways.

jem, london, uk

Ms Smith wants to require me to surrender control of my Identity to her database.

I have helped roll out databases and software which now deal with 15 Million Mobile Telephone subscribers. We were a small team, who knew what we were doing. Ms Smith does not.

We overran costs for phase 1 by a factor of 7.

I live and work in Germany where the possession of a Passport or ID is compulsory (As a Brit, I use my Passport) I do not have to produce ID more than an average 3 times per year. (and I have started 2 Businesses here!)

I do not see the added convenience of the NIR for me as a 'user' of government 'Services', Despite compulsory IDs someone still managed to plant a bomb on the train I commute on!

I only see the certainty of Cost overrun, data loss, identity theft and the skin-of-teeth distance between Freedom and Tyrany which the system 'provides'

Andrew Miller, Aachen, Germany

Thanks for this article. It seems the only people left who are insane or deluded enough to believe the ID scheme is a good idea are the politicians in power - which is a tragedy.

Ross, Leeds,

I am sure that MPs are perfectly aware of all the counter objections to this scheme, the blunders of the HMRC are too recent to be swept under the carpet, but in keeping with all people of a psychopathic nature they think that we are all imbeciles. They have nothing but contempt for us although they recognise that they need our peaceful consent to all these measures being taken else there will be a bloody revolution.

It's only the general population that will have to suffer the errors, corruptibility and injustice of this system, the elite have no such restraints imposed upon them.

They should introduce this scheme first to cover only MPs and see how it makes their lives 'easier'.

Mitch in Saumur, Saumur, France

Why is it that no one seems to be able to answer the question of how we can hold the government to account for a criminal waste of tax payers resources. Never before has a government deceived and abused the tax paying public so obviously with bare faced lies. Some of these politicians should be criminally liable for the ineptitude they display.
Can somebody please answer the question of how we hold ministers to account? I personally am not well versed enough in the laws of the land to understand such things - I would be intrigued to know how the public can actually hold these cronies to account.

ash, london,

This system will be being developed by the same people who have failed to manage the most basic of all IT applications - delivering a replacement payroll system that works flawlessly from day one. We are now in year two of errors and omissions in that system that pays our servicemen and women!!

Also, politicians forget, if they ever knew, that the reason the Nazis were able to round up Jews in Denmark more quickly and more thoroughly than in any other country was the existence of what was then the most accurate, if paper based, set of personal records in the world. Once the records were captured that was the end for those poor people.

Philip C, Wallingford, Oxon