I don't think the Eagle "woman" would know what to do with a man if he jumped up and flashed at her.
More discrimination against married men.

james allen, manchester, england

The question the law asks is what a reasonable person would do in a given situation. This legislation seems to be moving towards what a reasonable woman would do in a situation and then judging men by how women react to stimuli.

Winston, Manchester,

Okay . . .
So if one part of a lesbian couple killed the other, who would have the greater right to this defence?
Similary with male gays; would either of them be able to claim they were 'more feminine', and therefore more allowed to kill, than the other?

Silly attempt at law making.

Arundel, South Coast, UK

There is a deeper philosophy behind this proposal. Boiled down, it says the male violence is crime, while female violence is punishment.

It says that men are always potential murderers, while women who kill are only avoiding potential murder.

That makes no sense at all - except to a feminist.

jon livesey, Sunnyvale, CA/USA

Wife-beating (or husband-beating for that matter) and unfaithfulness are NOT equivalent. A woman stabbed her husband to death for unfaithfulness I suspect the men's rights campaigners here would not be wanting her to get off with a light sentence.
They seem to think men should have special rights.

annabel, Sussex,

As Paul Simon advised years ago, "There are fifty ways to leave your lover". Murdering him in his sleep isn't one of them.

Women should try the the "Slip out the back, Jack" route, and Harmen should stop trying to provide the sisters with ways of getting away with murder.

Simon , London, UK

My mother had an extremely violent and abusive husband, who had made it clear that he would kill my mum if she left, but she never resorted to murder. I sometimes wish she had, she ran a grave risk, but was lucky to escape. its a defense if there is clear overwhelming evidence of mortal danger.

richc, alicante,

I always thought the Times and its readers laid claim to a degree of sophistication and considered themselves well-informed. Clearly I was wrong. Fearing for one's physical safety - one's very life - is vastly different from having your fragile ego snapped because of infidelity. Try reading a book.

Billie Jean, Melbourne, Australia

Thanks for your article Melanie. When the Tories knew they would lose the next election, they rushed through crazy legislation like privatising the railways. Labour are now in the same situation and we have seen a rash of measures brought in by extreme ideologues. This is the latest of them.

Sean, Cardiff,

This is a very silly article, followed by some equally silly responses. There is no gender imbalance: the law will treat both men and women equally, if they have been subjected to continuous and long-term abuse. This legislation has been misinterpreted here.

Margaret, Cheltenham, Gloucestershire

Women get consistently harder sentences and the 'crime of passion' argument is always applied to men's defence. Women are the victims of gender-based violence whilst men believe they have the right to dispose of our lives as they see fit. This new proposal is affirmative action in my opinion.

Gillian Curry, Madrid/Madrid, Spain

I look forward to the day when feminists actually want equality or even understand what that means . Blatant hypocrisy is so ugly .

Benzo, Nr Chelmsford,

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"

Al, London,

To walk in and see your wife in bed with another man must be one of the most destructive events that could happen to a man - for males it's worse than a physical attack!

Men are different to women!

For it to be brushed off as bruised ego simply demonstrates a callous lack of humanity.

Nathan, Cambridge, UK

Feminism is nothing at all to do with equality. It is about gaining the upper hand. Harman has a record of anti-male legislation. Perhaps all that male violence should be directed at politicians.

Edwward, Lincoln, England

Given Harperson's determination to become leader, and her clear agenda to skew statutes to favour women, I think we can safely say that both New Labour and women politicians will be kicked into the long grass at the next election.

John Bull, London,

Bob, I am a woman. I will not convict either a man or woman who kills the person who have committed severe violent acts against them and threatened to commit more. Based on what I have read, it seems to be the only way a person can protect themselves in that situation.

Robin, San Jose, USA

DAVE replies...
QED, Helen. You can't write irony, can you?
And I was merely quoting Erin Pizzey from Radio 4 on Monday.
Let's have a Ministry for Men too - equal retirement age NOW, 50% custody cases awarded to MEN, equal pay (i.e. we get more because we don't get a year off for babies) etc.

Dave, Slough,

The Law is meant to be blind, and dispense justice equally to all. That is the only fair way. Instead the loathsome Harman and her girlfriends are trying to rig the murder laws in women's favour. If this law is passed no man should vote for Labour at the next election.

Simon , London, UK

The sense and fairness of this article is greatly enhanced by it having been written by a woman. In light of this proposed legislation I will both wife-beat and sleep a little lighter.

John, London,

All the usual feminist rhetoric from Harman. Both sexes must be treated equally - no bowing to those women who want their own rules at the expense of men.

james, London, UK

If ever there was a reason for not letting Harriet Harman become our next leader here it is! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OQFNARWr1w&feature=related
Everything that is right with this country starts with the family and it is the family, including Dads, that are going to put societies ills right

Dave Farmer, Broxbourne, England

Robin, San Jose. Of course you think fear is more justification that "injured pride". It's because you are a woman (I imagine - your name is gender-neutral). Law won't accept the generally different viewpoints held by men and women. It makes "one size fit all" and today that size is always female

Bob Finbow, Haverhill, England

If a prostitute had her murder conviction (of a brutal pimp) altered to manslaughter on appeal under the old law, why was new legislation needed? (Not a misogynist! I do try to maintain perspective; Some laws seem unfair to men but I recognise that they are, in general, much more violent than women)

Eric Skelton, Cardiff, Wales

Murder is murder regardless of victim or motive.

If I stick a knife in somebody's chest it's because I made a conscious decision to end their life. As such I should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Laws are there to be upheld, not sliced and diced to suit some deranged misandrist.

Robert, York, England

Dear Janey,
provocation makes killing less culpable when it causes an immediate loss of normal control and removes premeditation.
Women (or men) who make a conscious choice between leaving home and commiting murder, and choose murder, are not less culpable to the same extent.

Duncan, London,

I'm a man and I'm in favour of this change. It will help men who are insensitive brutes behave a little more cautiously in respect to their other halves. The numbers speak volumes in respect to spousal bumping off. It is men who must change and become more thoughtful, speak less with their fists.

kevin, Lincoln, UK

Can I kill a neighbour then say I mistakenly believed he was a paedophile? Can I kill my husband then pretend I was scared he was going to hit me? Can I kill my Asian neighbours then pretend they were racist? If this law is passed, we will all live in fear for our lives in future. Horrific.

Carol, Derby,

paul gilboy, newcastle , if we accept that men are "goverened" by testosterone and cannot do anything about that, then we should also justify other violent crimes committed by men - robbery, GBH, rape etc. After all, those men are just fighting for the survive and/or guard their territory.

Irene, London, UK

This is clearly a very emotive subject, with cases to be made for either side. I also object to the explicit sexism in many of the proposals, but until there is a case in which a man kills his abusive, violent wife, we will have no opportunity to assess whether this law can be blind to gender

Sophie, Liverpool,

Another case of feminists playing the victim card......

Doug Bates, St. Albans,

My only comment on this is the worry that public sentiment should be taken into account when a judge is making their decision on sentencing. This should not happen. It is fair to allow a victim's family to have input, but not a society that is prone to emotive outbursts.

Annette, Surrey,

Could you explain again slowly and carefully why the way men usually kill their female partners and the typical reasons they give make the killings excusable, while the way women kill the men dominating their lives and the reasons they give are absolutely wicked and deserving of 30 years in prison?

Janey, Norwich,

Astonishing. Apart from all the other travesties in this piece of ideological law-making, that "or think that there is molestation" is going to provide a ready-made excuse for a lot of grudge killers. In fact, stand by for a rash of vigilante executions on some of our less lovely housing estates.

Sarah Jay, Dartmouth, Canada

The law does need to be changed but in a way that does not consider gender as a factor in any crime. If only Ms Harman understood the truth that you can't fight discrimination with discrimination. If you want to help abused women/men you need to provide better options to end the abuse.

Italo, Gloucester,

Best answers here are from Chris,London and Stuart, Glasgow. Nazi style demonising is exactly what this is. Every women here who supports this move should be throughly ashamed of herself - and the one man. Terry,Burnley - no idea why you can't vote Tory, get out and talk with some decent people.

Miranda , Bedford ,

It should NOT be automatically assumed that a woman who murders her husband because he was ALLEGEDLY abusive, is not lying or exaggerating about him.

The proposed changes in this regard are sexist and irrational.

Kash, London,

'What's good for the goose is good for the gander'? Why do feminists keep trying to make one sided deals? Feminists have become a danger to the balance between men and women. They are extremists, with extremist views. They have created a generation of confused youngsters. They need to be muzzled.

lionel, ny,

"Difficult cases make bad law".

Perhaps the answer in these cases is to allow alternative charges of murder/ manslaughter to be put and then let the jury decide on the basis of the evidence.

Helen W, Oxford, UK

A gender bias formally struck into the law for murder? Wow, that really sucks. Surely for the taking of life, it is a maximum sentence. Gender is irrelevant. The circumstances and context are everything. In Australia we've had a recent spate of female murderers, why assume women are more innocent?

Dennis, Sydney, Australia

I still don't understand why men think it's OK for women to be physically and mentally abused in their own homes, but that it's not OK for men to be. This strange women should just leave when they're abused and if they don't it's their own fault.

Marie Borard, Marin county, Californnia

Is ill thought out legislation like this this one of the final spasms from the twitching near-corpse of New labour. Is political euthanasia called for?

Paul, sheffield, UK

You miss the point that these individual cases are part of a collective, and distressingly normal, scene of domestic violence. Your understanding of the term 'feminist' is also questionable - you seem to use it as an insult, which is sad and wilfully ignorant.

Mark, Bath,

The law is moving in the right direction.It has been a long time coming and I applaud the conviction, and determination of Harman and Baird in particular, in pushing these reforms through.

Opposition, based on ignorance and outdated societal views, only underlines how important these reforms are

Jennifer L, London,

We must surely use the law to separate out situations where unlawful killing was the predictable and intended consequence of actions (regardless of the deeper motive) from situations where actions were taken with a clear purpose in mind other than to kill and death arose unintentionally.

Bob, Reading,

Thanks for that insightful comment, Dave. You’re absolutely right – it is indeed feminists’ position that all men are lower class human beings and should be exterminated. I don’t know why more people didn’t read that section of the Feminist Manifesto.

Helen, Bristol,

Terrible spin and lies from a Government who continue to instigate poorly thought out and terribly drafted criminal legislation. Sensational claims that husbands are free to kill out of jealousy are baseless. The proposals will doubtless be a poor imitation of already established principles.

Paul, London,

The intolerable sexism of Nulab's feminists is all the more shocking in that it has taken so many years to be challenged by such excellent articles such as this.

Steve, London,

Men are governed by testosterone that chemical makes them aggressive acquisitive and territorial. The crime of passion recognises these fundamentals. None of the women murdered each year will be saved with this legislation. If it goes ahead justice and the law will diverge.

paul gilboy, newcastle , u.k

Women have always understood that men can be provoked in situations hence the dear john letter. We may get a situation where juries will not convict a guilty man because the law and sentencing does not reflect known human behaviour. This proposal is about punishing people not seeking justice.

paul gilboy, newcastle, u.k

@Elizabeth, Belfast

What are you talking about? If a woman can grab a knife in the dead of night and stab her abusive husband, she can easily slip out to a refuge. Excuses, excuses.

@confused

Beating hurts physically, being unfaithful/constant insults hurts pyschologically. Both are abusive.

Howard, Manchester,

Well if Ms Harperson is going to implement these horrid proposals, she had better get a move on and do it before Lab are UTTERLY REJECTED by the electorate at the next elections.

A.N, London, UK

As far as I'm aware, being unfaithful is not a crime, whereas beating your wife/girlfriend is...

confused, London, UK

So potentially, from Harriet's POV all men are bad, all women totally rational. Er.... not in my experience. Harriet's methodology and rational just sort of underscores that.

Tom Taylor-Duxbury, Ludlow, UK

to simply say that a woman who is being domestically abused should leave the home is to ignore the whole context of domestic violence. Of course it would be better if she left and her husband wasn't killed but sometimes that woman might not have that option and the new defence reflects that.

Elizabeth, Belfast,

What Ms Harman is now spreading is nothing less than the politics of the Nazis: the deliberate demonisation and marginalisation under law of a politically disfavoured minority based on nothing more than birth characteristics, false statistics & alleged injustices committed before most were even born

Chris, London, UK

Feminists hate men. Would you ask the Third Reich to set out laws on race or the Taliban laws on homosexuality? No.
Why do we allow Harperson and her harpies a Ministry for Wimmin then?

Dave, Slough,

Why is one expected to control one's actions when they are stimulated by anger, but not when they are stimulated by fear? Does the government know something about these two emotions - anger and fear - that the scientific community does not? How, exactly, are they different?

Nigel, Tampa, USA

Harman has taken an area that needs reform and twisted it to meet her own political ends. If its not murder is prostiution, where again Harman's views fly in the face of public opinion and common sense. When will she be stopped? At the next general election with any luck.

Stephane, Manchester, England

During the Sara Thornton case in 1995 the govt released figures showing women were twice as likely to get off a murder conviction for killing spouses as men. Now it's even more likely. Home Office figures show women get shorter sentences than men for just about every offence on the statute book.

JS, London,

We will never get a sensible ,coherent solution from feminist,s.
Fullstop.

Prendo, Emsdetten , Germany

I personally think that physical fear or severe physical is a far more valid reason for a person to kill than merely a hurt ego. I think the problem is that people are alot more upset about a woman killing a man than a man killing a woman.

Robin, San Jose, USA

This is true across the board here in the U.S.....not just for murder! If a male teacher seduces a thirteen year old female student...he will likely get 10 to 20 years in prison. If a female teacher seduces a thirteen year old male student....she usually gets sent to therapy and 5 years probation.

Shane, Raleigh,NC, USA

As an egalitarian I strongly believe in equal rights and treatment of all people. These laws only reinforces the popular idea that feminism is not about equality but about hatred, discrimination and revenge against men for an offence I did not commit. Thank you Melanie for this balanced analysis.

Stuart, Glasgow,

My mother was abused by. He was a drunk and beat her up when he was drunk, but I also remember her attacking him first, she would slap him and scratch him. There was no sympathy for him but I (through my adult eyes) realise that she is actually a very violent and unstable woman who often lashes out.

Mark Jones, Cardiff, Wales

That is all very well, but then there should be more female judges, too!

Lee, Boston, USA

Murder is a specific intent crime, that is you can't accidentally murder someone, you have to intend to do it to be convicted of it.

If intent was not there but through circumstance, control was lost then manslughter should apply.

The taking of a life should not be available as a bonefide option

John R, Blackpool,

This is all just a back handed and cack handed way of trying to get round the mandatory life sentence for murder. The definition of murder should remain, and judges should have discretion in sentencing Life might even then mean life when it's awarded!

John, Edinburgh, UK

As a disillusioned lifelong Labour supporter I wonder how, "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime", turned into, "Tough on the victim, how do we forgive the perpetrator"?. I'm disgusted with my party, I cannot vote Tory or Liberal, so I will join the majority who choose not to use their vote.

Terry, Burnley,

Maybe we should just do away with jailing people for murder/manslaughter, whether committed by a man or woman. Putting people in jail has been a relatively new phenomenon in the history of mankind, it's in our evolutionary genes to kill people we feel have wronged us. Vigilantism will always exist.

Terry Owings, Auckland, New Zealand

The BNP have gone quiet. Why? Because they are no longer considered to be the party of bigotry - Labour are.

Recent months labour have come out with some serious bile. First the effective attempt to remove a man's right to earn a living and look after his children. Then...the right to life.

Simon, York, England

It's this sort of attitude that would lead me, ex-labour party member, canvasser, etc to vote for anyone who says ' I am not labour'

clifford , Reading ,