Natalie Haynes
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When is a joke not a joke? The answer is simple - when no one laughs. Comedy is quite different from other art-forms - if people don't enjoy a sad film, they might call it sentimental, mawkish or boring. But they don't suggest that it isn't sad. We just think it's not to our taste. We have a completely different reaction to a failed joke. No one hears a line that fails to raise a laugh and says, yes, that's me, I have no sense of humour. We don't think it's subjective. We take refuge in the same attack: it's not funny. If the joke doesn't work for us, we deny its very existence as a joke.
Russell Brand and Jonathan Ross are experiencing the aftermath of a joke gone horribly wrong. What do you get if you cross a Spanish waiter with ill-judged prank - 10,000 complaints and rising. After a series of on-air phonecalls to Andrew Sachs, the 78-year-old actor, about a liaison with his granddaughter, the two face calls for their resignation, an Ofcom inquiry, even a suggestion that they be prosecuted. Why are the British public, normally so proud of their sense of humour, not laughing?
The first issue is power. The dynamics between comedian and audience are complex. An audience are happy to be complicit in all kinds of unpleasant jokes, as long as they don't feel bad. Essentially, the rule is that laughing at the rich and famous is comedy, laughing at the poor and disenfranchised is bullying. In the past few years there have been a plethora of jokes about Heather Mills on primetime television. Because she's a wealthy celebrity, audiences are far more comfortable laughing at her disability than they would be about another woman injured in a traffic accident.
A similar shift has occurred with racist jokes - most people now balk at jokes predicated on someone's ethnicity, but nationality is still fair game. The comedy circuit is full of people who wouldn't dream of joking about Asian or black immigrants, but don't hesitate to joke about Polish plumbers. When Anne Robinson consigned the Welsh to Room 101, or The Simpsons derided the French as cheese-eating surrender monkeys, we were quite happy to see it broadcast on TV. Robinson faced a few calls for an apology, but it didn't exactly harm her career.
Interestingly, it seems to be Sachs's age that has caused most disquiet. A straw poll of my colleagues suggests that even other comedians don't think it's funny to badger an elderly man. Yet we've all heard jokes about John McCain's age without being worried. Again, it's about power. Mr McCain has thrust himself into the public eye. If he wants to have his finger on the nuclear button, goes the reasoning, he should be able to take a joke. But Sachs is someone people remember fondly - and he wasn't looking for publicity. I wonder if the number of calls has upset people. One stupid prank call might have been forgivable; four messages of increasingly insincere apologies less so.
The second issue that has caused so much concern is that the show was prerecorded. As someone who once used the F-word on Radio 5 Live (after midnight, but still), I know that BBC audiences are willing to forgive a slip of the tongue on live radio, particularly if you apologise instantly and unreservedly. But the fact that a producer heard this show and thought it was fine to broadcast seems to have baffled commentators.
This is a problem with television and radio that live comedy doesn't face. If you make an off-colour joke on stage, the audience tends to respond instantly - they gasp, or boo, or even walk out. I once told a joke about Siamese twin babies at a gig in Chertsey that caused a third of the (admittedly tiny) audience to leave. One of them then hammered on the window wailing until her husband dragged her away. It didn't stop me from telling the joke again, but it certainly convinced me that I should judge my audience carefully before I tried it another time.
An audience act as a valuable barometer of what is and isn't OK to make jokes about. It's fine to pursue a tasteless joke if it bombs once or twice, but if it only ever bombs, it's probably just not funny enough to counter its offence. I once crushed a heckler who was trashing my gig with his random shouting, and only later realised that he was mentally ill and a war veteran.
The audience knew immediately that I was wrong - some were delighted that I could be such a bitch, but most were appalled. I still feel bad about it years later. It's difficult to replicate that audience barometer with a small production team - what seems funny to four or five people who know each other can miss the mark completely for millions of listeners.
Brand is a terrific stand-up, and a large part of his act is toying with his audience's expectations of what is or isn't appropriate. It's hard to see what he loses from a scandal: he has a young audience who won't easily be deterred. The censure of Ross is far more virulent - is that because he has daughters?
I find it rather depressing that in all the furore, no one other than Sachs himself seems to have thought to offer or demand an apology for his granddaughter.
Natalie Haynes is a stand-up comic and writer
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The real joke here is that the tax payer has to fork out £18 million for a 3 year contract to Jonathan Ross. Lets face it , he works (if that's what you call it) just 3 hours a week!. You really have to laugh.
sedgwick, London, UK
Who is really doing the bullying here? A phone call prank is one thing, forcing two men out of their jobs due to a personal hatred of them is another.
Ryan, Leicester,
Dead right Natalie never knock the weak or those who can't answer back - it's bullying and it's not funny. Re Kenny Everett-Tory Party a decade or so ago kicking someone's stick away.
Bondy, Dartmouth,
Hang on, I've just seen the joke! It's a show for teenagers, right? An there's two old farts, trying to make out they're still teenage lads, late on a Sat'day night - out of their minds - and larking about, except they're really gross. And old enough to be your Dad!
Pathetic! They should grow up!
Nigel MacNicol, Oakham, Rutland, UK
I agree.
He's a clever man with no-one saying no. I didn't like his humour before, but I think he'll be a better person as a result of looking in at himself.
Charles, London,
It doesn't matter that Sachs is elderly or much loved. YOU DON'T TREAT PEOPLE LIKE THAT.
Jon, North West, UK
Criticism against Ross is more virulent, firstly because he's been in show-business long enough to have learnt what is and isn't appropriate; secondly because he's paid a vast sum of money from the license fee, both on it's own as well as compared to Brand.
Calvin Graham, London, United Kingdom
Well done to the BBC for suspending these two overpaid men. Disappointed in Jonathon Ross. As a family man I would have expected better from him and wonder what his reaction would have been had the 'joke' been at the expense of his wife or children. The 'other one', not surprised at all.
Anne, Southport, Merseyside
Ross used to be funny but he has become predictable and increasingly course. Sack him. Brand is occasionally funny but his reactions show that he obviously does not care in the least for the feelings of the Sachs family. Sack him.
It's time to scrap the bbc tax.
MrDavies, Luton,
An apology for his granddaughter? She works as a risque burlesque performer and was up for it with Ross, as the saying goes, as much as he was. Saying in public you had sex with someone is not exactly heinous.
Joe, Manchester,
comedians need to push limits but this amounted to nothing more than high school bullying resulting in a vile phone call to the grandfather of the girl who was unfortunate enough to have had sex with one of the perpetrators. really disappointed in jonathan ross's taste.
mhairie, edinburgh, uk
They eptitomise the lowering of standards with uncouth behaviour. Most people are tired of being given these two as entertainment. They have for a long time brought broadcasting into dirsepute. Equity should withdraw their cards.
Desi, Eastleigh, UK
This is all getting way over the top. Yes they shouldnt have done it and apologies should be made. But sacking? Comments made by MPs? An Ofcom investigation?
Do me a favour, is there nothing better for us to be talking about? No one complained till the blanket media coverage!
Sarah , London, UK
How many people actually listened to the show?
Thought so.
"Get sacked" they cry... please, if this isn't just one more excuse for the Daily Express readers to bash the license fee! And don't kid yourself that if they did get sacked that some other station wouldn't pay them 3 times what BBC does!
Sarah, Wigan, UK
To be honest I think the first rule of comedy is to be FUNNY - I point which seems to elude Russell Brand and Jonathan Ross.
If the joke had actually been amusing then I'd be defending them for doing this.
Owen, London, UK
I don't think Natalie Haynes was advocating bullying. It is entirely fair and reasonable to observe that whether or not jokes are accepteble to the public often depends on the status or 'power' of the person concerned. Andrew Sachs is much loved, elderly and so the public is appalled.
P.Kirkup, Durham City,
Natalie Haynes, have you ever wondered how successful you would be as a comedian if you were actually funny?
M. N Shukla, Lagos, Nigeria
The new series of phone jackers jokes have become increasingly less funny and either more aggressive or of a sexual nature and that is calling up all types of ordinary people. Why does no one complain about this? Perhaps it is becuase there is not a band wagon to jump on?
Dom Finn, Nottingham, England
...."a delicate balancing act"? As if it were a matter of fine discrimination whether this was acceptable or not!
Graham Rounce, London, UK
Joke? No - abusive phone calling is a crime. Sack them both
Jeremy Poynton, Frome, United Kingdom
No doubt about it; they crossed the line, both should be sacked. What they did is offensive and not funny. The programme editor should also be sacked. The BBC is supposed to uphold standards and should know where to draw the line.
andrew smith, andover,
Why should anyone have to put up with obscene phone calls or being made ot look a fool just so some contemptible 'comedian' can earm more money. No one should be held up to public ridicule without their consent obtained in advance. Time we started cleaning up this country.
Neil Murphy, cromer,
What I can't understand about all of this is that I cannot think of any circumstances that would make it seem funny to leave a message like this on someone's phone? The BBC have used the excuse that Ross is an "edgy" comedian, whereas in reality he's an overpaid egotistical presenter.
Steve H, Scunthorpe, UK
I'm sick of the BBC, I'm sick of the offensive verbal diarrhea that comes out of the mouths of Brand and Ross. Maybe there should be a boycott of the Licence fee because the attitude of the BBC beggars belief. Ross gets 6 million per year but I fail to see what talent he has, maybe I'm just stupid?
graham, St. Albans, uk
What is an "unpleasant male sex joke", Jane? Is it a joke told by a "male" which you judge to be unpleasant? Is it worse than an "unpleasant 'female' sex joke"? Does such a thing exist?
The BBC has been for years a bullying propaganda machine. Usually no-one cares. Why is this such a big deal?
David , London, UK
The article misses a significant point: 'rich and famous' is not necessarily a target for humour: add, 'unpopular'/'dislikeable', which explains why jokes about McCain abound, and ones about Sachs don't. No one has a bad word for Sachs, hence the furore over words inappropriate in any situation.
Jane Davey, HEREFORD,
Let's see - what are the words used to disguise and excuse filth? Adult? Mature? Gritty? Grown-up? Funny? A prank? There's something basically wrong with people who can think and act like these two, isn't there?
john problem, Hackney Wick, UK
Resignation? They should both be fired.
Steve Jacks, London,
What these two overpaid, arrogant, pompous, worthless idiots did was abuse and bullying. They picked on someone specific and repeatedly abused him and his granddaughter. It is not funny to deliberately upset and hurt someone. This is nothing to do with having a sense of humour or not.
Nicola, Oxford, England
A huge aspect of skill of comedy is in the delivery of the joke. The tone of the voice, tempo, timing etc. It is almost a like story telling technique. A crafty comedian can turn a boring sentence into a funny one just by the way he/she say it. So those comments shouldnt be judged on how it reads.
Jay, London, UK
what is gordon brown doing?
it is a measure of the intellectual status of the man that he feels he needs to get involved in such a debate.
irrespective of how badly any radio joke is or is not taken by the public he should not be involved.
embarrassing.
david jones, london,
I've not heard the prank call but calling for sacking seems a bit much. All these kinds of calls are to some degree offensive and distressing to the people invovled. But it's momentary until your brain realises what's going on. Anyway being a dancer in Satanic Sluts Extreme leaves you open to jokes.
Natacha, Adelaide,
Natalie - If it's distressing to the person on the receiving end, it's not relevant whether it's funny. You seem to be saying it's OK to bully people as long as it makes other people laugh.
Malcolm, London, UK
Very well written. It is about power. Brand and Ross seem to feel they are invincible. That they can say what they like with impunity. Brand should've known better having retracted comments he made about Rod Stewarts daughter at Stewarts insistence. Ross should've known better, he has daughters
Anne, nottingham,
Jokes turned on oneself allows far more range. These two came across as "bullies" and deserve short shrift. Better they apologize quickly & publicly.
C.Brooks, Khobar, Saudi Arabia
Interesting that only four complaints were made at the time but four thousand when it received wide coverage on the BBC news. Can't help thinking that the news coverage may have been connected with JRs salary being aired the same time a large number of BBC news staff were being made redundant?
John Parker, Villiers sous Grez, France
An unpleasant male sex joke is offensive who ever says it. When the joker gets millions of pounds from his audience via a viewing fee, he owes them more respect. Don't resign, get sacked.
JANE FLEMING, Whittlesey, United Kingdom