Britons drink so much that we now have children admitted to hospital with
liver disease. According to a survey by the Office for National Statistics,
more 13-year-olds have drunk alcohol than not – that’s 350,000 13-year-old
drinkers in England and Wales alone; I don’t expect the figures for Scotland
especially buck the trend.
The week before last a 25% rise in crime over three years by girls aged
between 10 and 17 was blamed on ladette culture and underage drinking (I
don’t know why they bother to differentiate: ladette culture is underage
drinking).
“The relentless rise in [hospital] admissions involving more and more young
people is very bad news,” said Professor Roger Williams, a liver specialist
at University College London, who added that he and his colleagues were
treating people in their twenties and thirties for liver failure and
cirrhosis.
The proposed solution – shops and supermarkets facing legal curbs on the sale
of cut-price alcohol – has its heart in the right place, but I don’t see how
it would really address what has become a problem of epidemic proportions.
If people whose definition of enjoyment is drinking can no longer buy cheap
booze, they start concocting their own and end up drinking meths – or
whatever its modern equivalents might be.
Keen as I am for young people to realise that drinking till you puke, pass out
and wake up to find you’ve wet the bed isn’t the most fun you can have, I
don’t think pushing them towards dodgy contraband alcohol or toxic homemade
hooch is going to do much for their health either.
What we surely need to address is why vast swathes of young people - and their
parents and grandparents, too, I expect – find being so intoxicated that you
can’t stand up the very acme of fun. We’ve all done it: I had my stomach
pumped once when I was a student (I know – classy), but most of us aren’t
madly keen to keep on doing it.
I fully understand the joys of the three-hour lunch: I love sitting in the
sunshine with a chilled bottle of white wine; I have no reformed
drinker-style notions about the evils of booze. Drinking until you’re giggly
and feel like singing is very nice. Drinking until the room starts spinning
and you want to throw up isn’t. What I can’t get my head around is why such
vast numbers of people believe it is and that it is what you must do to have
a laugh.
I was walking back from St Leonards in East Sussex to Hastings a few months
ago, at about three in the morning, after a party. We detoured via a chip
shop near the sea front because we were starving.
Here is what we saw at the chip shop: 1) a young man, who had been glassed in
the face, trying to buy a kebab; 2) two extremely drunk young men standing
outside (near some sick) trying to start a fight with, as far as I could
tell, any random person; 3) two girls aged about 15, completely
inappropriately dressed (because, sorry, and do exercise your female rights
to cram your pallid flesh into whatever porno costume you like, but if
you’re going to stagger about pissed at three in the morning, take a coat
and wear it) clutching each other and barely able to stand up; and 4)
another young girl, outside the chip shop this time, being felt up by some
bloke as she was vomiting.
The thing is, having been at a party until 3am, my companions and I were also
drunk. But, Jesus, not that drunk. Why would you do that to yourself? In
what way is it fun to be glassed, semi-raped or puke down your dress? Does
anyone seriously wake up in the morning and think: “Top night”? Statistics
tell us they must, in vast and increasing numbers.
I happened to be in Hastings, but I expect a version of the hideous scenario
above plays itself out everywhere. I know young people in the countryside
are so bored there’s nothing for it but to drink, have sex (but apparently
not understand how contraception works. Why not? – it’s not exactly
challenging) and take drugs, and I suspect that the more remote the
community, the more intense the boredom and the more extreme the partaking:
there is actually something intensely provincial about drinking to excess.
It has nevertheless become shorthand for being “one of us”, recognisably a
member of the great tribe of pissheads, up for a laugh. The liberal elite,
in their usual moronic, tragically out of touch way, thought that endlessly
printing photographs of David Cameron and Boris Johnson at Oxford in full
Bullingdon rig and banging on about toffs would freak out voters and send
them scurrying gratefully into the arms of the Socialist Workers party.
As we know from the past few weeks – this one included – it didn’t quite work
that way. Well, d’oh. Okay, so they’re wearing funny clothes – but they’re
also doing what the nation likes doing best: getting bladdered. The whole
raison d’être of clubs such as the Bullingdon is drinking to the point of
oblivion. It is also the whole raison d’être of vast swathes of the country.
It has become as outré in some circles to use the word “underclass” as it
would be to call homosexuals “arse bandits” or black people “nig-nogs”. We
keep telling ourselves that the lovely, admirable, hard-working, morally
upright (there was a time when it was the nation’s conscience as well as its
backbone) working class still exists and a few horrid bad apples are
spoiling the barrel.
This is simply not true. The old working class exists, but it is on its last
legs, and the underclass that has replaced it is on the rise – angry,
desperate, broke and broken, culturally and morally barren, passing on their
poor, empty lives to their children and grandchildren. No wonder they drink
to oblivion – wouldn’t you?
The fact of the matter is that the binge-drinking problem is largely an
underclass problem. Teen pregnancies are largely an underclass problem.
Teenage crime is largely an underclass problem. Child neglect – we live in a
country where a little girl allegedly starved to death in her own home last
week – is largely an underclass problem. Our collective problems are largely
underclass problems.
Could somebody not just come out and say it, before another generation floats
away to its doom on a sea of alcopops? The underclass was made, not born.
Nobody asks to live in poverty, with no hope, no ambitions, no possibility
of betterment, and the belief that the most fun you can have is to drink
yourself into early cirrhosis. I know they’re hard to love, but really – do
we owe these people no responsibility whatsoever? Don’t cut the price of
their dreadful gut-rot: help them.
india.knight@sunday-times.co.uk
If there’s one thing I’ve learnt through having a child with special needs, it is not to judge other people in a similar boat
I believe it has just become a huge part of our culture in the past ten to fifteen years. At school here from 1988-92, it was so uncool to be totally wasted. You had a pint or two on Sat night and I noticed this with state or private school friends. I don't see much self-respect in drinkers now.
Lynette, Oxford, UK
I' m sorry India but the only moral one can draw from your anecdote is that one should think twice before going to a chip-shop at 3am. Exactly what sort of person would you expect to encounter (a drunken mother of 3 children?) in such a place, at such an hour ?
George , Colwyn Bay, UK
Is the so-called "drinking culture" brand, shiny new? Ask Hogarth. Is it confined to the underclass (an incredibly convenient term, allowing "us" to include everyone else, even those smelly workers)? Ask Tony Blair's son. I drink & love to do so. As do all those secretive middle-class tipplers.
R S, Sheffield, England
Greg,
i am from the US and the 21 drinking age does not stop binge drinking at all, it pushes it behind close doors, trust me. that being said binge drinking is a UK thing, not a class thing, yet i agree that the underclass are far more likely to cause trouble while drinking.
Alexander, London, England
I do not think that the age one starts drinking is relevent, but the amount drunk. My wife and I encouraged our daughter to try alcohol at home in small amounts from a very young age. Treating it as any other drink. Now at 18 years she almost never drinks alcohol, and never ever to excess.
Ken Hall, Barrow in Furness, UK
"Are not sufficient Englishmen/women angry and disgusted?
Garh Rex, Glendale Heights, USA"
Disgusted enough to emigrate, yes.
Mike (Disgusted of, Tunbridge Wells),
It's not just an underclass issue. The upper and lower classes have always done it in style, leaving the tut-tutting middle classes to wonder where it all went wrong. The difference is that it's often all the underclass lives for. As is oft quoted, the English have a natural taste for disorder.
PK, London,
I agree fully The creation of this underclass is the result of 30 years of misrule where under American auspices, govt in the UK has become a mere policing agency, to protect private industry from the public, to reinforce class barriers & ensure that wealth remains crystallised in the hands of a few
Haseeb, London, UK
Here in Spain many people enjoy a glass of wine with meals and people go out very late, but nobody goes out just to get drunk. In fact, you are looked down on if you have too much to drink. There is no pressure to drink for the sake of it. We Brits need to radically change our attitude to drink.
Margie, Barcelona, Spain
Would have been a lot better to say that these problems are far more comon, if not common place in the "underclass".
Legitimate point, but could be more objective, as the comments show, keep it up.
LMR, london,
I don't agree that the binge drinking epidemic is an underclass problem. Certainly not the visible part of it anyway. lMost of the young people out getting tanked up night after night are affluent young people with decent jobs, too much money in their pockets and no moral boundaries.
Stan, Slough, England
I'm 99% with the sentiments here - people look at me as though I am mad because I am happy not to drink on any given occasion - but to claim it is an underclass problem is jus not right. Rampant drunkeness spans the class divide. Rugby Union anyone? Habitual middle age, middle class drunk drivers?
Eric Ambleside, Yorkshire, uk
As an almost 50 something, I just don't understand this need to drink and take drugs to such excess. Drunk is drunk, stoned is stoned - why increase the amount until the body collapses under the toxic load? There is an unspoken desperation at work..
Isadora, London,
I don't think the class problem flies. Freshers week at uni? Anyone remember that? Booze, sleep, booze, sleep, booze, sleep... welcome to university!
Graeme, Edinburgh,
Nice One India,
Spot on but no one listens, I remember when I was at work in Scotland, a few blokes would come in on a monday and brag about drinking 11 pints frid night and 12 Sat , I always asked"why"and never got a reasonable answer.
I now live in Spain(retired) and see Brits doin the same.
Dave Madley, Alicante, Spain
It's not to do with cheap alcohol or access to it, people simply don't know how to "self regulate" or have any sense of shame. It's also about living for the now and having a good time. Sadly it's the same mentality that's got people in a mess with debt, live for now, worry about it later
Jessica, London,
I would say that drinking is very much part of the English, Welsh, Irish and Scottish culture. This is not a problem, nor is cheap alcohol. The problem is that people, in this modern society, are losing their sense of self-respect and respect for others. We must look to re-invigorate this concept.
James Cullup, oxford,
When I see things I don't like here I intervene and say so, as do others. There is pride in Germany and being German.
When I returned to the UK a couple of weeks ago I sat on a train and watched youths tear newspapers up and pour drinks on seats - no reaction from anyone.
Kevin Ripton, Frankfurt, Germany
Let's all stop pretending that we are shocked by the term 'underclass'. They are a problem, they are a drain on society, they are vile, they are frankly useless - well, apart from keeping the social services employed.
We need to stop making excuses for them and start with the tough love approach
CC, Altrincham, Cheshire
Although I agree the violence and bad attitude is caused by the lifestyle that the "underclass' system live, I disagree with the link between drinking too much and the "underclass" label.
I live and work in Shanghai, most of my friends and acquaintances are CEO's of multinational companies but come Thursday night through to Sunday evening they are all drinking to excess and totally bladdered each night. Only difference is, we don't have kebab shops out here!!
Jim Stuart-Young, Shanghai, China
Binge drinking and bad behaviour associated with it, is not the preserve of the underclasses in my experience. My middle and upper class friends binge just as much as anyone else. All of them are successful and never had to worry about anything. They (like many others) just enjoy it!
Victor, London, UK
Underclass? Lets link this to the AA Gill 'No class structure' article eh?
Its all the fault of the poor, nevermind that the middle class drink more!
Nor is it a 'yoof' problem (the middle aged drunks here in Swindon attest to that)
Typical attitude 'look down on you to feel good about me'
AK, Pig Hill,
Personally, I would say that it is not a class thing. At my private school, Year 9's and upwards (that is, 13 or 14) talk about drinking regularly. What bugs me is why the focus isn't on under age drinkers. They do the most damage to their bodies after all.
Claire , Ashford,Kent ,
Good article, however would like to clarify a few points:
- irrespective of class, us brits like a drink. Whether we overdo it or not is not the point. Glassing/stabbing someone outside a kebab shop is!!
- re youths causing trouble when drunk - maybe fining them/their parents would be an option!
James F, London, UK
Or is it just a case of Expensive Wine At Lunch with Profs = Good
Lager After Work With the Lads = Bad
I am teetotal and 22. Put off alcohol by the middle aged drunks I used to serve in locals as a student- the thought of ending up like that *shudder*
AK, Pig Hill,
This is not a class problem, I live in an upmarket historic town in North Yorkshire, every Sunday our high street stinks of vomits & booze. Moday's talk in the office, is about how drunk my colleagues got on the weekend, all of them middle-class. Every age, every class, both genders...the whole UK
Raul, Yarm, UK
what planet are you on?
this is not a problem of the "underclass" it is YOUTH culture,
regardless of whether you live in a council flat or a mansion,
as a young person, I've noticed that it really doesn't matter what class you are, young people binge drink and thats that.
hanna, london,
Whilst I have the comfort of residing in one of the safest cities in the UK (Liverpool, I bet that shocked you) I do travel and socialise a lot in other UK towns I find that the smaller the town the bigger the problem.
Just remember 99.9% of people will make there way home without any trouble.
Jon, Liverpool,
I'm sorry, but you people who don't believe that "our collective problems are largely underclass problems" are just blind to reality.
I am a paramedic in Somerset and the vast majority of our work is dealing with these exact problems, almost all in the underclass.
Ac, Somerset, Somerset
teacing in China I often ask my students of their perception of the English. "Gentlemen, Kind, Caring..." are their naive replies. I hastly tell them the truth of English (Drink) Culture. It is just as much a part of culture to drink heavily aas it is for the Chinese to sing Karaoke! We are doomed!!
Bob, Dalian, China
india has apparently decided that a 'problem drinker' is anyone who drinks more than she and her friends.
azloon, prescott, az
This is the white working class, so why is India Knight afraid to identify them properly by race? Dispossessed, deculturalized and derided as 'white trash´ (racial slurs are allowed against whites) their ancestors won two world wars. Now they are strangers in their own land. Who wouldn't drink?
Edward, Lincoln, England
The drinking problem in our town centres is a direct result of corrupt local government.
Police used to arrest anyone 'drunk and disorderly', throw them in jail and put them up in court on Monday morning.
Not now. That would not be good for the bars and the council's income from taxes on them
Peter Lloyd, BLACKER HILL, South Yorkshire
I so wanted to return to the UK with my wife after we get married in November but after a vist back to London, Bristol and Manchester she felt that the country was just too violent. We will stay here in Shanghai and plan our future outside of the UK. It's a shame but I guess she saw what I couldn't.
Julian Hutchings, Shanghai, China
Very good article. Particularly the expression of the "underclass" being not born, but made. It seems irrelevant who, from whichever political party, governs- the underclass has been nurtured for the political aims of those who rule, as factory and cannon fodder. I was once proud to be english....
winston Smith, hamburg, germany
Maybe if the younger generation had realistic aspirations like being able to afford a home they wouldn't be drawn into a drinking culture and all its associated problems.
J A Joe, London,
The core problem is that those who drink until they are in a state of unconscionable inebrity strike such fear into the hearts and minds of those that are not that the night becomes the domain of the dangerous. This new structure that the underclass adhere to of "living for the weekend" is our end.
Christopher, St.Austell, England
I am close friends with both your "underclass" and alumnus of Harrow and Oxbridge ruling the world from the City. It is ridiculous to suggest class has a direct influence on underage drinking. Youth alcoholism, drug abuse and antisocialism is wholly pervasive and person (not class) specific.
Amos, London, UK
Why are pubs and clubs serving or even admitting those already drunk? Let them use breathalizers and then have police put drunks in drunk tanks with medical care. Then charge them for the cost of the care.
Constance, Redhill, UK
I can relate to the above story, epsecially with reference to Hastings.
We arrived very late at night - we witnessed many drunks in the town centre that were extremely drunk - and were staggering and falling over - and last night i witnessed a teenager glass another teenager in the face.
Lee, Blackburn, Lancs
On Friday evening my partner was glassed by a drunk. The horrific fact was that the attack was completely unprovoked and by a young lady. This was not the most chilling part. The young 'lady' in question was a fellow work mate who told the police she was too drunk to remember what she had done.
Sean, Plymouth, UK
Decisions were made at government level a generation ago to create a " night time economy".
For that read pubs and clubs, and more access to alcohol. Bingo !!
Paul, Weymouth, Dorset,
Semi - raped ? Definition?
James, Burnley,
You get the society you deserve, too bad.
Stuart, Manchester, England
Whilst Britain certainly has a huge drink problem (which I tend to notice as I was brought up in Europe), the way the author throws the first stone made me think tof the old saying "An alcoholic is someone who drinks more than you".
Stef, Sale,
Excellent article that only those who never need to go out after dark in provincial towns will not understand. 'Andy, London' - City bankers may get leathered but they're less likely to bottle me, so explain what it has to do with me. The country's malaise has passed you by. Lucky chap.
Mount J, dorset, gb
Underclass, no. Just lack of class. Our society revels in stupidity, lauds ignorance, encourages dissent, and NEVER takes its time to praise education and sober success. While drinking is cool on Eastenders (et al) and the 'true life' characters are role models to the young, no change is possible
DLL, Brussels,
FYI: In the USA, anyone who sells alcohol to a minor...under the age of 18...ends up in jail!
Garh Rex, Glendale Heights, USA
Not a class problem - why do some media try and perceive it as an underclass issue?
Its right through uk society. oxford drinking clubs (seen in the flesh), hockey club wed night booze/vomit sessions, CIty thurs eve booze culture. etc...and the doctors i know (late 20s) are the biggest bingers!!
Andy, London,
Channel 4 programme Shamless shows the underclass "Having a Party" to excess. Don't be fooled into thinking we can load all of the problems onto this section of society. Taxing & promoting sensible drinking messages will change no, one rich or poor if they are determind to have a "good" time.
Margaret, Hyde, England
This is not a class issue it is a cultural one. There are a growing number of young people, including myself, who don't drink at all because we see how horrific binge drinking is. I dream of coffee shops etc that stay open late so that I could socialise without alcohol, common place in America
Kirsty, London, UK
Last week an ambulance was in attendance on Southsea seafront. A student had got drunk on the common and decided to streak naked across the road and had been hit by a car (thankfully not injured seriously, I wonder what he told his parents?) Would India class this as high jinx?
Rachel , Kent, UK
PK of Bangalore, how true. I too am regarded as "not a teamplayer" because I have no desire to go out and get as drunk as I can with my colleagues. It is now impacting my career.
Boasting about how much one has drunk it would appear, is all that some have left.
Alexandra, Cologne,
The drinking age of 18 years is disregarded, which is very strange and bad. The police should arrest every drunk under-18 kid and bill him/her with them paying (not their parents) when they're 18 or so. The drinking age should be up and 21 as in USA. Also, more tax on alcohol like in Norway etc.
Greg, London,
Top article! Presh & Richard sum it all up.
Peter W Straw, Hartlepool, England
I blame schools. In the card hand of personal development, which cards trump the joys of life-long drunkness?
Look after Number One? The love of future children and family? The Word of God? Fear of coppers?
None of these cards are dealt to kids today. Teachers kill these instincts on sight.
alan143, London,
Ms. Knight, you coined this phrase for another country some days ago, but: "The UK is a very strange place indeed...." - What strikes me most is you readiness to attribute this as a "class problem", while most of the comments here consent that the toffs are just as bad as the "underclass" at this..
Adrian, London, UK
I wonder what your Sunday Times wine club would say about all of the above then?
Come on now, I know many upper middle class types who put away a skinful everynight. Bellicose would describe the late evening mood, especially when politics is discusssed!!!
Mrs Maggie Snook, Wareham, Dorset UK
North of the Alps people drink to excess; I have watched Norwegians, Finns and Russians outdo anything in this article - even arriving in town paralytic. This trend is surprisingly beginning in Italy, my last posting. Underclass or without hope for other reasons?
Paul, Camberley, Surrey
My upper middle class in-laws are in their 60's and certainly put away more alcohol on a more regular basis than I ever have. Just because their livers are so pickled that they don't puke it up doesn't mean that they have more moral high ground than I had in my mini-skirted, under-age clubbing days.
Vicki, Wakefield, England
Drinking and drugs are not an underclass problem - either as teenagers or later. Nor is it a British problem. Unless you tautological define it as an underclass determinant. The 'rich' and foreigners partake. Perhaps it is not a problem? 4 units on a given night being Binge Drinking is puritanism
James, London, UK
The drinking culture is not linked to class, it pervades the whole system, from the Diamond Whites of the 'underclass' to the Chateau-Margots of the rich and famous... The drinking culture is an excuse for hedonistic excess, self-gratification with the pretence that life should be limitless 'fun'...
Nathalie Hachet, Manchester, UK
I don't think that this problem is particularly British. We're facing exactly the same problems in Germany. As a teacher (of mostly middle-class binge-drinking pupils) I can say that they drink because they see everbody else do it. So drinking makes them feel like an adult.
Steven, Ulm, Germany
Interesting read, but of course hardly surprising we have a growing underclass - the growth of an ill-educated, benefit dependant base of labour voters has been government policy for the past ten years.
mike, Weston, UK
Alcohol is not the problem, it's the Anglo-Saxon drinking culture. In the 15th century, the English were notorious drunkards, nothing's changed. Drink with a meal, the continental way and bring up children in families where a taste is allowed at mealtimes.
Andy, Whitchurch,
Who will save the Britain that once ruled the world? ...That gave the world it prime language, it's culture, science, literature, manners, laws, engineering...etc., etc.,...etc?
When will Britain wake up again?
Are not sufficient Englishmen/women angry and disgusted?
Garh Rex, Glendale Heights, USA
This problem is not so clear cut. There is something in our psyche (brits) that makes us think we are better at most things and I think this also includes our drinking. So this is not necessarily a class thing. The "toffs" like nothing better than drink fuelled drinking games.
Deb, Surbiton,
It seems that there's a huge chunk of society that are depressed. Perhaps people are appearing to be hopeless, because they are without hope. You can tell someone to pull their socks up and get on with it. But if they have no idea what 'it' is that they should do, what then? How worrying.
Jay Davies, Plymouth (pretty hopeless!), Devon
Dont let the middle classes duck out of this, go to Ascot, Henley or some of the "better" London clubs. Drunks have no class. The question to ask is what are they escaping from?
I suspect it is just some mass genetic trait that we Brits have but need to get over.
mike gee, bournemouth, uk
The problems is our laws encourage this drinking culture. They should ban drinking in public and increase the drinking age to 21. There is also little else to do in england after 6 except go to a pub! Even shops are closed after 6! In all UK cities except london cafe's close early too.
Sam, Coventry, UK
Underclass and welfare state, that’s one problem, but why are there new notices in English, for English tourists, in Krakow hotels: “PLEASE, DO NOT VOMIT FROM THE WINDOWS AND BALCONIES”?
What are these “poverty stricken” members of British underclass doing in expensive hotels abroad?
E.R., London, UK
I lived in Britain for five years and fell easily into the drinking culture. Looking back on my years there and what I perceived as "normal" drinking at the time, I am shocked and embarrassed. Britain has a major problem with alcohol.
cara, Boston, USA
My India - showing your age? Leave 'the young' alone, they will insist on being young.
julia, london,
British binge drinking culture has transcended barriers of age, class and race. It is a problem firmly rooted in the attitude of the majority of people. It boils down to a culture which lacks respect.
Rajvi , London ,
The underclass are a problem, per se, whether they are binge drinking, being foul mouthed or mindlessly violent or causing wanton criminal damage. A good way of avoiding or at least reducing this problem is not to encourage their 'parents' to produce so many of them by limiting state child benefits
Alan Gooch, Honiton,
In Argentina the "underclass" face far more difficult lives - yet there is not the same alcohol problem as in Britain. Part of the reason is the availability of alternatives - here there are a lot of sports facilities, even in poor areas. People simply have something to do other than drink to excess
Derek, Buenos Aires, Argentina
the problem is that in Britain there is nothing to do, no prospects, all the industry gone, no jobs except shelf stacking and (for the fortunate few, becoming a management consultant), nothing except to become a minor retail outlet for Chinese goods. All that is left is alcohol.
bill torbitt, windhoek, namibia
The article rings true. New Labour thinking is exposed on this issue. It seems to go 'we can't (or won't) tackle the real problem, which is lowlife feral teenagers drinking at their lowlife parents encouragement. Therefore it is the fault of the Middle-Class. So let's demonise them and tax 'em'
ANDY L, St Helens, Lancs, UK
Dear India,
Noone will say it.
In the Seventies, Sir Keith Joseph saw what was coming. He called it 'the cycle of deprivation'. The Left politicos and press crucified him. That's why he stood aside from standing against Mr Heath as Leader of the Conservatives. Only a John Wesley could save us now.
john , london, england
I disagree that it's an 'underclass' problem. I went to a top public school and it was no different: I have vivid images of my friend (who just got a 1st from Oxford) vomiting over the table in the pub on a Wednesday night. And that wasn't too unusual! It's a mentality of British society as a whole.
Andy, London,
I think Victor from St. Petersburg put things in absolute perspective. Who could really top that without resorting to hyperbole and waffle?.
John P, Westcliff on sea ,
The arguement that they'll use meths, etc is empty. Cut price booze, of the type that taste's nice is the problem. Kids do not start off whiskey drinkers. It the 2litres of cider for a quid that is the fuel for youth crime. Higher prices will price kids out of the market, and reduce crime.
steve, abergavenny, uk
Quite simply, trendy 'anti-elitism' destroyed the notion that there are some ways to live that are better than others, not surprisingly this led to a flattening out towards the lowest common denominator and streets that are knee-deep in blood and vomit.
David Hadley, Cradley Heath, UK
Nobody forces alcohol into them!
Help? Our Foster Daughter recently moved into brand new purpose built housing for young people, and guess what? some neighbours are already trashing theirs and having drink fueled parties to all hours!
Where's the sense of responsibility, why keep on giving?
Terry, Bagneres, France
Young Teenagers drink they want to have fun. It's "cool", its the in thing to do. Its about rebelling and not bothering with exams. That's what it was when I left school two years ago. Very young people getting drunk is wrong, lets not penalise everyone.
Sarah , Belfast,
I think the environment plays a massive part...its always raining so what else is there to do?i
In other countries there are tons of free sport facilities in parks (tennis, football basketball) over here there is nothing, the ones where there ares omething are poorly maintained.
Damian, London, England
Isn't it obvious to any sober mind that drinking per se is not a problem to focus on? Truly a devil's trick is this misplacement of the focus. Rather, booze is an escape — on a personal level — from a great many of different problems. Public decency is a simple matter to discuss. Unlike despair.
Victor, St. Petersburg, Russia
the UK nurtures its underclass and as such as the lowest social mobility in the western world (even lower than the U.S.). the state should not have to take care of you unless you truly are incapable or disabled, not if you get pregnant at 16...that was your mistake, deal with it.
Alexander , London, England
Compassion for and caring for one's neighbour is a good thing, most people would agree with that. But it doesn't have any meaning if we expect the government to do it for us. The underclass was "made" by the belief that somehow big daddy government will take care of us and guarantee the good life
Bob, Faversham, UK
its strange...many of these problems are in the U.S. as well yet they are very much limited to poor ethnic minorities and major cities while in the UK it seems to be ingrained in the very culture and is very much a white British problem.
Alexander , London, England
I agree with Chris of London and I don't buy this. Kids have got more to do now than ever before. It's discipline that's lacking together with moral values and respect for oneself. getting falling down drunk is not admirable whatever the social class.
Jill, Boston, UK
Low self-esteem, no purpose, no self-control, no common sense.
Should some new politics arise with the possibility of curing such things, it will not be the politics of more consumerism, hyper-individualism, egalitarianism and race-replacement.
It will be social conservatism and nationalism.
Guessedworker, Lewes, England
It's often said youngsters don't get out enough because they have so much at home - their own computers, equipment to play their favourite music, more tv channels than ever to choose from, books to read. Yet suddenly they reach an age when they've got nothing to do but drink? I don't buy it.
Barry, Wallington, UK
2 sons at Uni, protected, sheltered up bringing in a stable home. One, like me, is TT, won't even taste an alcoholic drink, but has a compulsive interest that keeps him amused. The other (now that he is at Uni) drinks to excess,I believe, because he has nothing better to do, he's bored.
sandra, Alicante, spain
I don't care what school you've been to, whether you've got lands and titles, or whether you've got a string of degrees as long as your arm.
If you get that wasted in public, you are scum.
Rob, London,
It's a bit late now. What else can they do? The Government sold off playing fields to supermarkets. And the fields that are left have huge fences around them, like the one where I used to play cricket after school with friends only 20 years ago. What else is there to do but hang around drinking?
Graham, Bath, UK
The Americans are really repulsive with their love of conquest. Come on, it's a new century - get over it already.
john moore, windsor, u.k.
I lived in Hastings for 12 years until I left in 2000. I am glad to see it has not changed much then. There was always two main groups of people it was best to avoid on a night out - the drunken chavs and the middle-class journalists.
Arthur, Leicester, UK
THE mantra we all remember "victorian values" we have arrived at destination thatcher-bliar .
michael , cahersiveen-adams town, madness
Here in Australia "nightclubs" are open intil 5am but are not allowed to serve drinks after 3 in the futile hope that clients might get sufficiently sober by 5am not to get beaten up by each other as they leave.
How can society can allow people to drink to that hour and not expect violence?
Peter Murray, Kenmore, Australia
Ian from Fremantle: intelligence quotient is calculated by projecting an individual's rank on the Gaussian bell curve with 100 as its centre value. Thus the average IQ will always be 100, even if intelligence itself is increasing (or, indeed, decreasing).
Tim Footman, London/Bangkok,
I am in my 40s and don't buy this. Kids have free schools and healthcare, free library access, lots of parks and a world of entertainment and information on the internet. That is help enough. What's missing is simple: discipline and police with power and willingness to act.
Chris, London, England,
'Underclass'? I think not. It's becoming 'culture'. Wherever the Brits go, especially young ones, there is an element of paraletically drunken behaviour. Why? What is wrong or missing? Life balance is missing. Self respect and respect of others is missing. Welcome to the UK in the 21st Century.
simon, Southampton, UK
People are drinking themselves into oblivion in much the same way that they did when Hogarth painted "The Gin Drinkers" - mothers blind drunk with babies (also blind drunk to keep them quiet) falling from their arms. The reason then and now is more or less the same: no work, no hope, no future.
Judith C, London, Once Great Britain
it's very sad but the uk has truly deteriorated into an unliveable place. i'm leaving the country soon and i'm never coming back here to live. there's no quality of life here. i live in a nice neighbourhood in north west london and now there's graffiti everywhere and youths wandering around.
amber, london, uk
This certainly isn't just a youth problem. Seeing a woman in her 50s, legs splayed out puking up inbetween, while her mate of similar age pats her on the back, is not a pretty sight. An early evening in Coventry city centre on my way back from the bus station, on my way back from a holiday abroad.
Paul, Coventry,
All young people are drinking more from city boys and girls to the locals of the Home Counties. Why?
Say you went to University, got saddled with debt, in a £20k job, cannot get on the property ladder: would you go out and enjoy your life? Of course.
The young have it harder and they know it.
Mario, Cheshunt,
Booze is the sympton. The cause is the underclass that has resulted from 20 years neglect of the glue that binds us together as a society, starting with 'there's no such this as society" and arriving with the drunkenness, violence, rudeness, vulgarity and aggression that epitomise England's young.
Jacques Francis, Westcott, UK
The bRitish and Irish are notorious for drinking.This is no underglass problem but culturally embedded. you hear people saying, they can't have agood time without drinking, eevn a glass of wine with dinner. iw ork in a cITY firm and theyd rink after work and lunch time. kids need to be encouraged.
miguel vargs, London,
Underclass seems to be a by product of capitalism. 21 st century British capitalism differs from its 19th century one. But the uderclass with its problems remains. Britain needs more social equality and mobility.
Kakhi, London, the UK
Not just an underclass problem. Underage drinking, drug taking and unprotected sex were far more of a problem at the independent girls school many of my friends attended than at my 'bog standard' ex-secondary modern comprehensive.
Clare, Shrewsbury,
People drink because their lives are meaningless. They are not allowed to have any meaning in their lives. The system enforces compulsory materialism and pointless activity. People are not permitted any future either apart from state enforced Islam. People are drink out of despair, seeking oblivion.
Keith Bentham , Wigan, uk
I have to agree with Jim and Pk, it isn't just an underclass problem. I am a teacher at a girls' grammar school and twice one of my beautiful sixth formers has ended up in hospital with a smashed up face from being paralytic and falling and hitting it on the kerb. I find it very sad, whatever class.
VF, Oxford,
Possibly the "underclass" are those that offset those who can read, write and think so that the average IQ remains at 100 instead of steadily moving upwards.
Ian , Fremantle, Australia
Please have you visited any of the independent schools in the last few years??? The binge drinking is a very wide spread problem not just in the underclass! Open your eyes!
T. Nilsen, Oslo, Norway
I left England to live in Finland, they drink a lot here also but they are not as common as the English. Back in the UK last October I felt that the country was no longer my home, gangs of drunken youths being sick in the gutter, and this was in Cheltenham.
Jim, Oulu, Finland
I spent a few years in England working for some top fortune 100 companies, and the booze culture was there as well. Every off-site turned into a drinking free-for-all, and as someone who doesn't drink, and that made me "not a team player". I returned to India as fast as I good.
PK, Bangalore, India
India Knight....you have hit the nail right on the head. Alas there is no one listening. Thats the travesty
presh, Bath,
Underclass - rather more than that. Britain is now a nation wihout values.
Richard, Bucharest,
It's the new football - or sex. Listen to their conversations afterwards; the main topic - the ONLY topic - is how drunk they were. That makes it self-perpetuating. Just make booze more expensive; that's what made really hard drinking prohibitive in the post-war years. Taxation will do it, no?
John Carty, Medellin, Colombia
The mainstream booze served in pubs should be made stronger, circa 5% - 5.2% proof as it is on the continent. That way, young people will get drunk faster , go home a lot earlier hence night ruined. Serving beer at 3.8% allows at full night out and with same result, which leads them to do it again.
ipd, London,
It appears that there are number of individuals who are very successful and work in the city and earn a lot of money, but use drugs and alcohol as means to escape the stress they are under. In addition, most university students drink too excess. I would not call them underclass.
john, London,
Naive tripe. The underclass is a worldwide phenomenon but it has been cemented into our social fabric by increasing wealth coinciding with a falsely Socialist government needing to create a power base. Votes are bought by a bloated welfare state creating a nihilistic self-serving scumbag class.
Duncan Wilson, Sheffield, UK
Labour policy ignores that the traditional working class has morphed into either the hated middle classes, or the underclass, and has instead decided to replace half the country with ready made foreign immigrants, people neither asked for or needed.
Steve Jacks, London,
The English are really repulsive with their love of drink. Come on, it's a new century - get over it already.
Evan Rofheart, Amagansett, USA
So, having asked the leading question, Ms Knight,how are you proposing to help them?
What do you suggest we do, that we arn't doing already? Feed them, educate them, wean them off the booze? Encourage them to stay togethere by tax credits? Jail them? When does 'they' become 'we/ or you and I?
H Osbourne, Lancashire,
It's heartening to have a columnist in a national newspaper who manages to express with admirable bluntness what so many people think, and without tiptoeing around on politically correct empty and meaningless terms either. Keep it up, India.
Aurora, Paris, France
The bottom line about why there is such a huge underclass in the UK as compared with ,lets say, Italy, is the policy of giving a council flat or house to every teenage girl who gets pregnant. It really is that simple: no free flats for underclass babies -no (or far far fewer ) underclass babies !
riv, Newcastle,
I agree, wholeheartedly, that the problem is not cheap alcohol. I disagree that their drinking to oblivion is understandable. I've been broke, I've had an abusive parent, but I've never felt the urge to drink. In fact I don't drink at all. I'm also only 23 years old.
W_G_L, Liverpool,