Here's a question to westerners who believe that a foreign female prisoner in Iran shouldn't be forced to wear hijab:

Imagine in any western country a woman is arrested in a topless beach, wearing only a bikini. If she has to be imprisoned or taken to court, would she be taken there in the same clothing as she was arrested ?

No ! even in the US or UK or Canada or any other Christian western country she would be given clothes to wear. If she refused to wear them, she would be forced.

Every country has a dress code. Be it for men or women. Prisoners, as well as ordinary people are forced to follow this rule. Wearing hijab for this woman is hardly the main agenda on her mind.

Amir Azimi, Tehran, Iran

Unfortunately the RN has the wrong sort of ship.
HMS Cornwall is an anti submarine Frigate with very little anti surface armament, and has to rely on putting crews into inflatables to board other ships.
Anti smuggling patrols in confined waters could be best handled by fast shallow draft vessels like WW2 Motor Gunboats. Unfortunately all the money went on cold war weapons, leaving the RN with the wrong tools for this job.

K M Wells, Bognor Regis, England

The "right of dominion over women" is indeed what all this is REALLY about. Still, there is hope. The dominion over the rest of the population exercised by a handful of aristocrats in France ended in 1789, starting a trend that proved to be unstoppable and universal. So will it be with the liberation of women, even in the most benighted parts of the world. Like the emancipation of the "lower orders" in the 18th century, the equality of the sexes is an idea whose time has come. The mullahs are fighting a rearguard action but, like the old aristocracy, they can no more stem the tide of history than Canute could order the sea to go back.

J. Fletcher, Canterbury, UK

So suddenly this boring, bland, run of the mill commoner of a female smoker sailor with pudgy forearms is the stuff of stoicism, fortitude and a stomper of the so-called Iranian patriarchal tendencies?

That’s all it takes to make the giant leap from window dressing to sainthood? All it takes to make the latter leap is to be humiliatingly nabbed by a few modified Iranian speed boats from underneath the nose (keeps getting longer) of Britain’s mighty naval prowess ?

You and your neo Jean D’arc are the laughing stock of the entire globe. You’ll get over it, NOT.

Romper Stomper, Tehran, Iran

This article is pretty patronising- anyone read Orientalism by Edward Said- this is evidence of his point.

Karishma, London, UK

I would think that, having so easily captured RN personnel without a fight while a British warship looked on, and having found it so easy to 'turn' at least one in what a US commentator described as " record time", they regard the presence of a woman in a 'combat' unit as nothing more than confirmation of their already poor impression.

R Hale, Hampstead, London

Frustration is rife; alas dear westerners, what the Muslims want to do they will do. These ain't Africans that you were able to trample on in the past; or Indochinese, or communists. You've made Ahmadinijad; without you there is no he. He's gotten stronger; Iran's gotten stronger; the Muslim world has gotten stronger; it all continues while the west goes about fighting the inevitable losing battle. Good luck. Watch how this one turns out; then you'll see a portent of the immediate future.

David Webster, Palm Springs, ca

Get into the secret family law courts here and you will find that a womans vioce is less than half of that of a male.

Or try Ireland, where women are still told to go home and obey.You are too powerful for a woman.

But because it is all held in secret, you will not hear of it.
In fact it is getting worse. The propaganda machine is firing one gun, but the truth is otherwise.

Portia, Dublin, Ireland

most of the feminists I know have little idea of the wars in arab lands but are aware only of fashion and celebritism. The real feminists have integrated like seaperson Turney. I would imagine the last thing on her mind would be having to cover up. Iran is involved heavily in the Iraq war, pushing ahead with nuclear development at a time when Britain and America are bogged down fighting the wars of the worlds almost single handedly and not in a position to get involved. We have an ageing Trident system that is getting replaced (-the wimmins movement have something to get their teeth into at last) and the current carbon footprint taxation department will most certainly insist on safe eco disposal. So a cheap alternative could be to dispose of it over iran. Maybe worth mentioning. Islam is seriously out of control. Face fact, not fashion.

kenny, hove, uk

The issue should not be Janice Tunney's choices which are hers to make as a free woman. The issue is these cowardly bullies who are taking a female prisoner and violating United Nations conventions on the treatment of prisoners to humiliate her and force her to wear Islamic clothing against her will and to write ridiculous letters that have been proven untrue. Get the sailors back Tony Blair, make sure it never happens again and get an embargo against Iranian exports by all countries who support you until this regime is displaced by rational people.

Barbara Greene, Toronto, Canada

An uninformed article which doesn't show much knowledge of women's overall position in Iran.

It could even be argued, with considerable strength, Janis Turner doesn't show much real understanding of British women.

After writing something silly, Ms Turner also displays a lack intellectual integrity in dealing with the results, because the selection of comments so clearly reflects a fear of tough-minded criticism.

I early on made some hard and fitting remarks, as I'm sure others have, but, of course, they are not posted.

Difficult to have much respect for this kind of thing.

I do think the days of mainline columnists behaving this way are coming to an end. The Internet is changing everything.

John Chuckman, Toronto, Canada

Why do we care about the way Muslems treat their females? If we are so sure the western world's view is better the best action would be to let the burkas fade away with time. The question raised in the article was what will the Muslems believe about the submissive nature of females when faced with females like the one held captive at this time and the puny responce of the feminists (limited largly to blaming Bush and other western males). The answer revealed by their actions and comments is "see we are right, females will submit and wear a net and say what ever she is told to say just as the female forced by the sailers to accompiny the males on their invasion of Iran has done. Maybe cutting off the head of a college student for being Jewish or stoning a 9 year old girl for seducing a grown man is the direction of the future. I just read comments like Bush (who carried %50% of the vote almost twice) and the vatican and taking nude pictures of prisioners is just as bad. So who is righ

mike, Centralia, Illinois

Debbie Stowe of Bucharest, Sums it all up for me, Brilliant!

Read Dis, London, England

Get used to seeing it lads and lassies, for if you don’t take action as a nation against this type of radical aggression, all of your women will be wearing burkas and head scarves in Europe and the U.K. It is quite clear that appeasement will certainly lead you in that direction. Its funny how everyone blames the west and their "arrogance", however you never of any of these people going over to these countries and helping the religious nuts enforce their control over the women. It also strikes me how you hear of individuals blast the west's involvement in the middle east from the comfort of their home, in the west. Having spent time in the heart of the mess, I had the privilege of speaking to quite a few, and not one time did I hear, from any sound individual, that they had wished that we would have never become involved. It is a tough deal, for all involved, however, just as it has in the past, in the now, it shall be done. If you wane, your loss is your freedom.

MAC, Pittsburgh, Pa

Surely it's just BECAUSE L/S Turney has a daughter that she has a better reason to fight for that daugher's freedom than anyone else?

Rose, Cambridge, UK

Bush talks about having a country run by God. Well, Iran claims that is exactly that. If Bush had its way, the country would be run by Christian fundamentalists, and equally prritanical.

Ken Mitchell, Newburgh, NY USA

One positive benefit from this incident is that it will further underline, to the international community, how religion can be used as a tool to oppress women. That a 9 year old girl could be stoned to death for adultery shows just how worthless the life of an innocent girl is in the eyes of Iranian Islamic leaders when compared to the reputation of your average male pervert. I seem to recall a similar lack of compassion being shown by the Vatican towards the female children who were raped during the recent conflict in the former Yugoslavia - which resulted in the needless deaths of many of the victims.....

Crashing Dashing Kid, wirral, UK

You're on the front line now ladies. How do you like it? Ready for more? You gonna love a fire fight?

Laurence R. Waugh, London, Canada

"So languid are we in this warm bath of freedom, that International Women’s Day — March 9 — doesn’t even figure on our calendar."

Nor would it: International Women's Day is 8 March

Malcolm, London, UK

I agree with most of this article, men and women throughout the muslim world are being oppressed and are suffering at the hands of Islamic fanatics. I supported the liberation of the Iraqi people, but what kind of liberation is it when many of the security forces are members of extremist militas, and where the people are helpless against them? Why on earth didn't they only recruit from secular Sunnis and Shias?

Turkey is a good example for the direction of the muslim world, although I don't beleive that banning women from wearing headscarves in government institution is freedom, but at least they have established a secular democracy. And who is the defender and upholder of freedom, secularism and democracy in Turkey, and has the power to fulfil this role? It is the Turkish army.

Usman Ali, London, UK

what a warning to all other free civilizations of the dangers of muslim idealogy, that they force the use of their dress code on other ideologies, as portrayed by the tv images of ls turney.
presumably in the western world,if we took that attitude ,all non christain faiths should wear christain type clothing.
what an uproar from minorities if that were to be implemented and yet i hear no critisism of this forced subjection ?
why not?

john haydon rowe, el ejido,

Any Americans commenting should recognise that their country is a mess before invading someone elses to steal the oil. Americans are a pack of Hypocrites. there is no freedom in Abortion or Drive-by shootings or Snorting the tonnege of cocaine the Americans do every year.
We saw what free American soldiers did to Iraqi prisoners. You are murdering torturing criminals who will be judged by the same God who your leader says told him there were WMD's.
Fix the chaos of your own country before trying to teach us how to make a bigger mess. You still have enemies in Veitnam, after the murder there. You haven't learned nothing in forty years.

Colin, Bridlington, UK

I am sure that the Iranians are well used to strong women in their armed forces, they had lots of them in the Iran-Iraq war who fought in the front line with the men - and yes they had to be swathed in the outdated clothing while fighting - but they were there! As for this unfortunate person, she is being used by both the Iranians and the Ministry of Defence both of whom have made great deal out of the fact that she is a woman and a mother, one to suggest she should be at home looking after her child and the other to suggest that the Iranians should release her (presumably so she can go home and look after her child). But what about the men - don't they have children as well? Wouldn't they perhaps like to go home to see them as well?

Mark, Cardiff, Wales

Difficult to determine which is more repellant - Iranian totalitarianism or western feminism.

Abner Good, erehwon, usa

If you feel there's a difference between a mother leaving her child in the care of the father to go to war - and vice-versa the father leaving mother and child to go to war - then you haven't quite captured the meaning of equality.
As for Iran - in the coming war - perhaps Irani POW's should be paraded, dressed in pink miniskirts and lipstick?
One UK sailor has been degraded similarly by Iran's theocrat regime.
A regime totally ignorant of the fact that we, in the western world, experienced the dark ages centuries ago, and have evolved through enlightenment and secularisme to a stage of near equality and democratic freedom.
Not more than 50% of the total intelligence found in Iran is utilized - no wonder poverty prevails. Economic, artistic, litterary, humanitarian, phylosophic, scientific - you name it - poverty.

Gerald B., Aarhus, Denmark

listen ,Rimvydas Sliazas, Cary, USA: women's freedom should be universal- if a woman chooses to serve her country, then good for her! we may not support the war, but support the people who go out and fight it- they have little choice in their employment. i dont hear anyone criticising the male members of the armed forces for leaving THEIR families behind. we're proud of the men, but the women are just seen as letting down their families. to giles bradley, Exeter: yes, a mother at home is the most desired answer. but this is her job, and it will provide for her daughter. once again, i dont hear males being criticised for being bad fathers by joining the army- or do you all still believe the army is a man's world? i assume none of us posting signed up to go to Iran or Iraq- so support those who did instead of chastising them !

Jill Lumsden, Toronto, Canada

A very brave lady, my thoughts are with the matelots and booties.

How dare they strip her of a uniform she has earned the right to wear proudly, this is much more humiliating than being forced to wear a hijab as the British forces are flexable when it comes to dress code in other countrys, the army and marines have worn beards in afghanistan, so I don't see a problem with wearing the hijab.

But to take away the pride she has earned to wear the uniform of the Royal Navy will hurt her much more , but I expect she has more pressing concerns at the moment , like the very real real threat of war with Iran and how long will it be before she sees her family back home.

Mark, Helston, cornwall

All would be well with this article...but is there really any need to keep on hammering on about Western feminism...is there any reason to make it so exclusive? I thought the whole point of feminism was that it is universal...Has the author heard of womanism? And slave garb? Exactly what good does it do to insult these woman in such a manner? I understand that the author's thoughts are heartfelt...and I share her point of view, but I believe that her expression, imperialist as it is, leaves much to be desired.

Nayana Chakrabarti, London,

A good article. Turney is a credit to all mothers, to all women and to all British people.

Its a mystery how we as a nation are arrogant enough to criticise the supposed sexism of Iran and other countries, when we ourselves still live in such an institutionally sexist society.

You only need to look at some of the replies here to see that many, many British people consider women's sole purpose to breed children and keep home.

Good mothers aren't necessary those who stay at home all day and watch Neighbours and Diagnosis Murder. A good mother is A GOOD MOTHER regardless of what job she does.

N Paige, Yorkshire, England

A mother leaves her child to participate in Blair's stupid imperialistic war. And this is portrayed as an example of women's liberation. Indeed she had a choice and we see that women also make dumb choices.

Rimvydas Sliazas, Cary, USA

This is a beautifully written column and there is nothing to add to it.

In such circumstances it would be useful if there was an additional means of feedback. In an answer block entitled “summary of response”, we could be given four options to tick:
I totally agree
I agree
I disagree.
I totally disagree.

I totally agree with Janice Turner today and see it as one entity of logical argument

David Barfield, Wigan, Lancs

Er, there are female members of the Iranian forces, this just strikes me as fairly poorly researched propaganda - no better than the Iranian variety.

Ruth Qishta, Glasgow, Scotland

The Romans remarked on the fierceness of British women, noting that they fought as bravely as their men. The Romans came to regret their actions towards Boadicea and her daughters after she led her tribesmen in detroying both Colchester and London in 61 AD.

Long live L/S Faye Turney, a true daughter of Albion.

Janice Lee, Bicester, UK

I salute the women of the state of Oaxaca in Mexico ! They are showing how women can take action to correct matters . Women who want to make a militray life should do so .This soldier is doing as she ought , following her dream, temporarily interrupted , Blessed are all such women !

morgan-lynn lamberth, augusta, usa,ga.

FREEDOM DOESN'T GIVE, IT NEEDS TO BE TAKEN
Some parts of the world it is forbidden to wear such as Iran and in some others it is forbidden not to wear as that.The main problem is changing the human choise freedom to obligation.No person is more equal than others.This means every person free for his/her choise. In this part the point is the border of freedom.And you know it is very very long and big controversy subject.Simply the border of the freedom is the border of others freedom.Also a foreign writer is commenting the women position in Iran.It seems a similarity with the justification of the war in Iraq.You see Iraq citizens need freedom, so this is the duty of US and UK.After this freedom operation all of Iraq feel free.Now Iran women needs freedom with the name of Turney as a symbol.She recall to the world mind that the downtrodden of Iranian women.I think no need such as reasons for war. Democracy is developing in some countries as Iran as in other Middle East countries permit

Kenan Cocga, Ankara, Turkey

It is definitely a collision between two civilisations but not irreconcilable ones." Civilizations must be respected; they do not fight with each other. It is national states which fight with each other and destroy humanities. First World War and Second World War were not fought between two civilizations; they were fought between national states! Poor Fey Turney happens to have been caught in crossfire between two irreconcilable national states in a volatile region nothing more and nothing less.

S Imam, London, UK

I wonder how much outrage would result in the Muslim world if the inmates of Guantanamo were dressed in pastel ball gowns, high heels and tiaras? Come to think of it, that would be something to see.

T. Roth, Connecticut , USA

Thank you, David Ellis, for your down-to-earth comments. Yes, we could do with more like L/S Turney.
In the late 1980s the concept of women in more active roles including going to sea was trialled in the Reserves before being rolled-out to the Regulars. My late daughter was one of the first women to go to sea, as a Royal Naval Reservist. She went on a NATO exercise to the North Cape, Norway, where their ship was shadowed by submarines and 'trawlers' from the USSR. Another enemy, another war.
She nearly went to the first Gulf War as a naval communicator. They were warned to be ready and to make their wills. If someone so young is told to make her will, don't you think she and her loved ones all understand the implications?
Both my granddaughters took part in the Trafalgar Day parade through York, the younger one acting as Colour Escort with rifle and bayonet. It's not just about parades on special days, this tragic and worrying situation brings it all home.

Margaret Stoll, ROCHFORD, Essex, England

For Janice Turner
Nice logic
No rubbish here
I am proud that a woman of my planet can say these things. I want them to be saying these things. I am so glad (assuming a lot here, sorry.) that a woman not living in these climes understands what is at stake here ,as elsewhere. I am a man. I live in the Gulf countries. You are so nearly right. Say more please.

kengo lincoln, Kuwait City, Kuwait

Bomb every Iranian military facility into oblivion.

Let the bomber pilots be women.

Make Maggie T. honorary commander of the operation.

JMK, NY/Oxford, US/UK

As I read this blog I can only sigh and ask" Are the Brits and other westerners in general so stupid?". I am neither a fanatic Iranian Muslim nor a complete apostate from Islam. Therefore I have a modicum of common sense left. The easiest way to bring the mullah regime to its knees is for westerners to stop driving one day a week and reduce their petrol consumption by 15% since 1 day divided by 7 days is roughly equal to 15%. A 15% drop in oil prices that will eventually result defeat this regime because of the hardships it will cause the ordinary Iranian who is already fed up. Not a single shot needs to be fired. Is that too much to ask?

Ibrahim Mehrbani, Boston, USA

How is it that our patriarchs have made no comment about this soldier being humiliated by being stripped of her uniform and made to wear an Islamic woman's subservient garment? It's now gone beyond the hijab, (headscarf) and she is now in a jilbab too, ( the long gown). Next I expect will be the niqab, (face veil). We became very angry about the letter writing, clearly forced, but NOT ONE WORD has been said about the garment of subjugation, far more humiliating than the obviously forced letter writing

Would you make a comment if the men in a few days appeared with beards, a kufi hat and a long dress? Will that stick in your male pride as much as this female garment sticks in my female pride?

Mimsy , London, UK

The international Women's day is March 8. But nevertheless, where is all these women's organisation protesting imprisonment and obvous harassment (phizical and moral) of this selor.

Gary, Alicante, Spain

The Quran, Mohammed but mostly the old Iranians(those over 38)are ridiculous. I'll be glad when the younger Iranians, that have smarts and pay little attention to old mullahs but still care about their religion, take over iran and their neighboring Arab states young people do the same in their countries. It's time they receive a chance to live a decent life without ancient taboos(and they're nothing more than dreamed up crap)pressed on them by a bunch of old and out of touch men.

Chris, Dallas, TX

In ancient Rome, there were several attempts to introduce women into the gladiatorial arena. But, amongst the public genocides, criminal executions, burnings and animal maulings we found the spectacle of women fighting too nauseating and banned it. Apparently my spirit lives in a society that congratulates itself for a practice, even we Romans found too barbaric. So my most sincere congratulations to the West, once again (it cannot be understated), on the achievement of female combatants- a towering peak on the field of civility.

Obsencus, Ancient Rome, Italia

I think it is relevant to note that such changes as have occurred in Britain have been essentially endogenous. At the same time, I think it would be wrong to think of women as having gained these freedoms themselves. Arguably women got the vote because certain people realised that they were more conservative than men. Britain has evolved into it’s present customary position via a whole host of influences. It is thus fundamentally wrong to think that other societies should possess the same attributes. Obviously they wont and it is sheer arrogance to consider that they should. We don’t know where all this smartarse, spin-doctor lunacy is going to take us, but for all one knows it could be ultimately disastrous, because you can’t go on reforming for ever and what then are these clever-dicks going to do? At least you can’t say that about Iran, and it is open to them - just as, you are saying or implying, it was to us - to make such changes to their society as suits them.

Henry Percy, London, UK

I feel a great deal of contempt for the posters here who disparage the young lady. What she does with her life is HER business. The muslim posters here are obsessed with forcing women to obey them, even to the point of death for disobedience. This war with Islam will last for many years and will only end with total destruction of one side or the other, or a partition of the world, into slave vs free

Tim from Dixie, MOON LAKE, USA

Women have always been involved in war. In pre-modern times, they were the spoils of war...passively waiting for which ever side conquered to claim them. Now they can shoot back and those still locked in the mindset of paternalism are horrified. When they come to claim their "prize" and booty, they might get their heads blown off for their trouble.

The Irananians hijacked British subjects. The sex of those subjects makes no difference.

Eli Gregory, Virginia Beach, Virginia USA

Re my opinion as muslim woman on verses from quran.

The quran has some verses which are definite and others which it says must be interpreted and changed according to the times we live in. And certainly the ones given on women can now be interpreted so that men and women are equal. This is because at the time twhen he quran was sent to Prophet Mohammad women not only did not work outside the house, new born female infants were burried alive, and women given away as part of materials in wills...It was during such ignorance that the quran set out to give women some rights and of course now things are much different ...women work just as men do outside the house and equal rights is the only solution. Just like the quran talks about slaves...we don't have slaves now do we?!!

Mandy, London,

The argument is not about clothing or nail polish or make up. Its about the right to chose what I put on my body. I get to chose what is sensible to wear whether I am on my way to worship, going to a club with my husband OR with just my girlfriends, or going to the beach. When we were in Disney World Florida, a Muslim family walked by and all the children and the husband were wearing light clothing, which being well over 90 degrees made complete sense. The wife however was in a black full length burqua. My husband was so angry with the Muslim husband we had to walk away. I said to lighten the mood, "Maybe she's completely naked under it. That wouldnt be too hot." If another man is looking at me appreciatively my husband gets a boost to his sense of pride. If a man is being inappropriate with me, my husband gets to "be a man" and defend my honor. It seems like Muslim men hide their women because the men are afraid to be "the man". Im a mother, wife & law student who loves being a woman.

Rebecca Sideris, Atlanta, Georgia, USA

How many of the 14 male sailors being held are fathers? As usual, the media neglects to tell us. Presumably a few of them have children – I wonder if the previous poster considers them in default of their paternal duties. How sad that despite all the education and rights that Western life confers, some people remain, in their own benign way, as rigid, close-minded and sexist as those who find an uncovered face so offensive. Excellent article, by the way.

Debbie Stowe, Bucharest, Romania

I'm just curious. How long does it take for a British Navy submarine to steam into Iranian waters?

I hope we find out over the next weel

Stephen Farrel, Mississauga, Canada

Hi Janice. Although, I can sympathise with your very strong held views...I disagree with the tone of your arguement and also some of the content. Iran is a theocracy based on Islamic shariah law. Picking on the Burqa as islamic feminism is like a muslim woman picking on the current mental state of britney spears as an example of western 'feminism'. Muslims, men and women in the islamic world do not want the britney spears model for their daughters, their sisters and their wives. I dont know many educated women that bother about nail varnish, hair styles, or make up to be honest. Education yes, professions in medicine, education, scholarship yes.....fighting on the front line, putting a womans life at risk or placing her in a potentially dishonourable position ..a big fat NO....... thankyou very much.... Muslim women do not burn their bra's and hang them, nor parade their bosoms...Obviously they don't have to because women mature earlier and are more intelligent than men. With love,

Aqua, London, England

What the Koran says about women explains the Iranian attitudes.

Verse 4:34

Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made one superior to the other and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and as to those on whose part you fear disobedience, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

Verse 2:223

Women are your tilth, so go to your tilth as ye will, and send good deeds before you for your souls, and fear Allah, and know that ye will one day meet Him. Give glad tidings to believers, O Muhammad.

Ted Baines, New York, USA

Shame! I don't think that the PM Tony Blair is happy with his soldiers having dinner and smiling on TV.
If i was a General, i woulb be very disapointed with my soldiers critisizing our country activits. (i'm not General or even British, but i do beleave in UK).

claudio, tunbridge wells, kent

Very moving article, Janice, especially the last paragraph which sums it up as the reality is. But L/S Turney should never be in that situation with a 3 year old child. Regardless of what freedoms we want and the choices we wish to make as women, we cannot want the right kind of society if parents are to be encouraged to abandon such young children at an age when love, care, affection and simple maternal presence are the most important thing in their lives. Very sad all round, especially for that little child who, in view of what has happened, has no idea when she might see her mother again. Should participation on those sort of roles which involve separation from children not be encouraged until the child is at least 7 years old? At least they will then be old enough to understand the situation. We cannot have it both ways: a healthy society with well adjusted, well behaved kids but who are robbed of the very love, affection and emotional bonding needed at the young age to provide it.

Elaine Sihera, Maidenhead, United Kingdom

I am as appalled as any right thinking person to see a wife *and* mother placing herself in such self-indulegent danger thousands of miles from home. I have instructed my good lady wife never to mention this 'woman' again, and moreover not to place herself in any form of danger. Such as drivng a car, walking down the road, going outside without my express permission.

Nurse, can I have some marshmallows on my hot chocolate?

Alec Macpherson, Stuck to the vacuum cleaner, Legoland

International Womans Day is on March the 8th !

Sokolov, St Petersburg, Russia

What a load of half-baked nonsense. On the one hand you have people blathering on a bout Woman's Day and their rights to be treated equally and have the same opportunities as men. Then at the same time saying they shouldn't exercise this right. Was the fight for equality so that women could stay at home or just do jobs the feminists think they should. (You don't see many women agitating to be dustmen or other similar jobs either). How does it square with NuLabs determination to have every mother working and their kids indoctrinated, sorry educated and brought up, by leftie social worker types in all sorts of government approved creches, pre-school and after school clubs? As for those who witter about the respect shown to women in places like Iran, go and live there for a while and then give us your opinion on how it feels to be treated with such respect. I feel the answer would be different.

Dave Proctor, Leeds, UK

what a silly pompous article: International Women's Day (8 March) so snubbed in UK is a celebration of respect and gratitude and acknowledgement for women in society.
As for "our right to make choices — and mistakes — to fight, to study, to work, to stay home, to have children, to remain childless" that's very well not at the cost of other people lives. ( in this case a little girl whose mother is abandoning her maternal DUTIES) If Leading Seaman Faye Turney chose to be a mother she should act as a mother.

Anna Levi , Nice , France

Perhaps what Janice Turner, and Seaman [sic] Turney ought to realise is that what our country needs isn't more women to enter the military and join the men in trying to kill other people. What we are desperately short of is good mothers who are there for their children, teaching them how to live as responsible and caring adults and being there when they need them. I hope she is released soon and returns to her duties - as a wife and mother.

S Foster, Doncaster, UK

So there is no "Fathers for (4) Justice" group in Iran?

Robert, Belfast, Northern Ireland

I agree with much of what you say but do think that as a mother Ldg Seaman Turney should really be at home, looking after her young child. Don't instinct and our own experiences say so? Sure, let mothers work if necessary, but at least be at home daily.

I heard her say, in an interview before capture something like: " I'm doing this job so I can give my daughter everything she wants". Well, I imagine what a 3 year old most wants is mummy, alive preferably.

giles bradley, Exeter,

We as civilised Westerners are "shocked" to see a Western woman wearing a headscarf - a sign of modesty in many places in the world. As I remember, women in the 1950's wouldn't have ventured outside the home without wearing a hat or a headscarf....our own dear Queen even now is seldom seen without her head covered...!
What will seem strange to the world of her captors is that she, as a wife and mother, should be working as a woman amongst 15 men, half a world away from her nearest and dearest. Strange to say the least......

Jackie Jaidy, Bethlehem, Palestine

Save us from romanticised, patriarchial, mysogynistic poetry from middle eastern men! A humble muslim streetsweeper considers himself to be Allah's crowning glory compared to any woman, to him she has as much significance as a gnat. I wish western nations would realise that Islam is incompatable with western thoughts and ideas. The longer you live in a muslim nation the more you realise there will never be cultural integration with muslims in western society.

BJM, Cairo, Egypt

International Women’s Day is March 8, not March 9.

Chris vande Werfhorst, Amsterdam, Holland

There are more women MPs and judges in Iran than they are here. Practising Iranian women conquered Everest 2 years ago (press coverage given? - nah). I've seen women membes of the armed forces in Sudan and Iran 20 years ago. What does it say about Western women that they disparage the advances made by Muslim women except that it doesn't fit the stereotype of 'oppressed' Muslim womenhood you are all so eager to perpetuate. Turney is getting better treatment that Baha Moussa got from the 'civilised' British Army.

simonS, Bolton,

Wow...patrolling The Gulf as a feminist mission statement. What about Nelson's final signal - "Engage The Enemy More Closely" ?

The media makes this sound like tourists taken prisoner rather than the crew of a warship

TomTom, Leeds, England

Hailing thy veil as the icon of modesty
Luring thee away from the prying eyes
Both thy veil and thee too
Were abused (by men) upholding the taboo
For so long (and too long) thee know not how
Can face the world averring thy right now.

Kalyan Deb, Dubai, UAE

Man made the law, moaned the woman, and so
So little power gave us the law
That must be true, said the man, but that’s b’cause
Nature endowed you (woman) with awesome power
To make the man break the law
In your favour to serve you.

Kalyan Deb, Dubai, UAE

You have been a daughter and a wife
No, wives, counting the times
And a mother too, many a time
But seldom a woman; couldn’t spare the time
Born and made to play the role
A body with the departed soul.

Kalyan Deb, Dubai, UAE

Well said Janice and well done to L/S Turney for joing up and doing the business. She knew and accepted the hazards, good for her. I wish there were more like her. We could do with fewer vacuous airheaded TV celebrities and more Turneys. Good luck to her. As for the Iranians, I feel sorry for them being led by a bunch of religious idiots.

David Ellis, Shekou, China

Stirring words and clearly held conviction!
And yet I can't quite get my ahead around a mother leaving her child to go and fight. And where women are held in such low esteem. I still feel the mother ship didn't do enough to protect that boarding party. It should have been right beside them and have it weapons trained on the ship that was being boarded. How could their radar not notice the Iranians crossing this disputed border. There are a lot of unanswered questions about how this incident could possibly have occured.

John Collins, Lewes, East Sussex

Begrudgingly I have to admit that this is "well said". Although I have several Iranian friends that I admire for their strong family values and intellectual freedom, I have also suffered bitterly at the hands of reactionary women (in my own society). It is very painful to face rebuke and public scorn from these women, who at the same time profit from the same freedom and benefits that a liberal, egalitarian society can offer. Frequently these same reactionary women (glorifying family values) disguise their own political agenda, which is to rule from behind the veil of a male dominant society. Sadly, I believe it is women that are perpetuating fundamentalist islamic values in these societies.

R. Caldwell, Shanghai,

I do not think GOD, ALLAH, or JEHOVAH or any other higher Being cares about what we wear. It all has to do with what you wear inside your heart. Imagine a Divine Law were killers, thieves, liars and murderers go to Paradise and women without a certain attire go to Hell??. Is that really plausible?.
Another thing: What about those who still have to come in contact with holy scripts, but live in peace and harmony in their environment?. Do they really need some stranger( in foreign language). Do you not think The Higher Being will have a way to reach them without help from a different culture?.
Is religion being used to achieve our earthily, mortal , selfish political goals(power)?.

ves, ottawa, canada

the author is ill informed. iranian army has women soldiers.

k.prabhakar, london, uk

Oh dear if it wasn't timesonline I would be laughing at this kind of biased commentry.
Fortunately not many people share this old fashioned extreme right wing view of Iran. You live in colonial periods and your menality is that of British superiority over other nations. Instead of this kind of analysis you better read some books and enlighten yourself about Iran and it's people but that would leave you unemployed.

Paul, London, UK

It is definitely a collision between two civilisations but not irreconcilable ones." Civilizations must be respected; they do not fight with each others. It is national states which fight with each others and destroy humanities. First World War and Second World War were not fought between two civilizations; they were fought between national states! Poor Fey Turney happens to have been caught in crossfire between two irreconcilable national states in a volatile region nothing more and nothing less.

S Imam, London, UK

I am half English and half Iranian and have an impartial view on the sitiuation. However I am dismayed at some views about Iranian society. For instance you mention of how 9 year old girls get stoned in Iran for committing adultery is there any evidence of this? Please enlighten me if this is a piece of honest reporting or merely more propaganda material which is baseless.

Audel, Manchester, uk

I wholeheartedly agree with everything that Janice Turner writes. Whilst I think women who dress in veils and burqas in this country are ridiculous and absurd and their excuses for doing so farcical I defend their right to be ridiculous and absurd. In the same way the current fashion for teenage boys to wear their trousers so far down their backsides that their underwear shows is equally absurd. But that is their choice. Whether for spurious religious reasons or bizarre fashions we all make our choices.
As long as we appreciate that we have that choice but that sometimes we must also accept that there are other factors limiting that choice then I say wear or don't wear what you like. So sometimes it will be inappropriate for Muslim women to wear their veils (I cannot begin to imagine why they are allowed to do so when driving) just as it would be inappropriate for a woman to go to work in a bikini. I'm sure Iranian women would agree if only they were allowed to be consulted.

Paul Owen, Birmingham, UK

The article is right. Treatment of women equally is surely a sign of a properly civilised and mature society. Iran clearly is neither, nor is a lot of the muslim world.

There is a lot to be said for a world without religion.

Mark - Britain will never become Muslim - hopefully a few decades will actually result in Islam being properly tolerant.

Andrew, Cambridge,

its rather bizarre to laud this female seamen when in reality she falls far short of historic and customary standards of behaviour for captured soliders and sailors. Her craven cooperation with her captors -- allowing herself to be used as a propaganda tool against her own government after only two rather days of capture --- is disgraceful conduct. She exhibits no bravery, no endurance, no discipline, no loyalty, no pride -- in short no martial virtue. Her weakness sends a clear signal to adversaries about the poor quality and dedication of British soldiers and possibly also women warriors generally. The enemy has many people willing to die (and kill scores of innocents) for their cause. In Faye Turney the west reveals our soldiers don't have the fortitude to resist actively cooperating with the enemy after a few hours of discomfort and uncertainty.

ira lukens, providence, RI usa

Isn't International Women's Day on the 8th March?

Christopher Broxholme, Chisnau, Moldova

Theorists who are puzzled by curiosities in unusual events might usefully ponder on the presence of only one female seaman in a crew of fifteen, and what differences might have resulted from more symmetry of opportunity to man the boats.

dr venables preller, Warminster, UK

A very good article. However, the subject is broader than this because there are implications for women in the UK. At some time in the future (demographic experts vary in their forecasts on this) the indigenous population of the UK will be in a minority. How will young western women who have grown up knowing only gender equality and freedom feel if they have to submit to Muslim law here.
The real irony is that it has been the libertarian left who have pushed both the femininist agenda over the last thirty years and at the same time have backed a multicultural Britain without seeing any conflict between these ideals.
My own concern as a father of three very modern young women is that they do not loose the opportunities that they now have in contrast to the limited scope offered to their forebears.

mark cooper, southampton, UK

Isn't it also a sign of prevailing inequality that the government is trying to negotiate the freedom of LS Turney separately from that of her male colleagues?

And, just as a side note, International Women's Day is on March 8.

Barbara, London, UK

Why muslim women have to cover themselves, should be explained. Is it because of the religion? Could it then be because they are not created by God or did God just have a bad day when He created them? Being a westerner I would assume what is created by God should be worth displaying.

Per, Oslo,

What made my blood boil is when I saw Seaman Turney wearing an Islamic headscarf. She comes from a 21st century civilisation. Why should she bow to the requirements of this savage medeival superstition? The "religion of peace"? Yeah, right.

Davinia, Notts, UK

The body language and appearance of conformity with local dress codes, together with words and speech which may lack congruence with information in the public domain should enable anyone watching the edited media clips to draw their own conclusions.

Although, as in any group photograph, dissent of those depicted may be expressed in any way such as facial expression, gesture, dress or lack of it, what is shown has been subjected to an editing process, which in the digital age can include almost any conceivable alteration including missing words, re-positioned words or even altered clothing items.

Propaganda can have a negative value in the information age.

dr venables preller, Warminster, UK

"After all, here she stood, the end-product of 100 years of bitterly fought — and now mostly unacknowledged — Western female emancipation"

This is so true. It's also possible that all the gains that have been made by feminism in the last century will be rapidly lost, unless the fight continues. There's no place for complacency in the service of a false 'anti-imperialism'.

Steve Margolis, Great Missenden, Bucks

This is a most powerful article, abounding with irony including not least the somewhat anachronistic rank of LS Turney. Ms Turner is too modest to mention that one of the other contrasts is that senior journalists here may be female and may write what they wish.

There is something particularly depressing and disturbing about the presence of a woman in the group of hostages. If there is anything that men are "for", then it should surely be the case that we should be trying to prevent such situations. Our natural reactions now may well be excessively bellicose, when calm might be called for. It is perhaps appropriate and fortunate, and of course a further irony, that the lead actor in London is a female foreign secretary.

Tim Short, London, UK

Sir/Madam:
Iran is wrong in the way they are treating Seaman Turney. It is stretching things too far. It appears that it wants to humiliate UK.
Regards,

Krishna R. Kumar, Udupi, India

Seaman Turney as well as the other sailors should keep to wearing their uniforms and only answer with their name and serial number, and that's it - just in WWII. What would have happened had she refused to wear the hijab in public - just as what would happen if all the sailors just repeated a mantra of their names and number when on 'live' TV? Probably not a lot. Time to fight back (according to the rules of course). What the people of Iran do is their business. They got rid of the Shah before - it's up to them to rid themselves of the present regime - for which incidentally they voted.

Ian, Bristol,