On the day after the announcement of these A levels in burger flipping I am told that last weekend's homework for a quite bright great niece of my wife was to learn the 4 times table.

She is 9.

At that age I and my contemporaries in a small rural Primary School in the 50s were working confidently with fractions. At this rate of slippage of our once great education system can we shortly expect MA degree final examinations to consist of two pages on What I did on my holidays?

Dunploddin, Malaga, Spain

The debate is not about who supplies the vocational education; there have been certificates and apprenticeships for years, which were first downgraded, and like everything else that is purposely downgraded, talked up again later for political purposes. Not a previous mistake , but a 'recontexting of the situation'.

The question that remains is - what is education beyond school for? I have a feeling that the political thinking is now that academic education (learning to think and critically analyse for oneself) is, ir will be, the preserve of the financially well-off, who can afford the fees and the time to indulge such reflective pursuits. Remember what Charles Clarke said about mediaeval history? Vocational education (learning to do what you are told and not being critical towards your benefactors) will be the fate of the rest of us who have to gain income in order to survive in an increasingly consumerist society, geared to production rather than reflection. Society is hijacked.

Bob Ericson, Tewkesbury Glos, UK

I heard a union official on Radio 4 yesterday deriding McDonalds for volunteering to get into this scheme, apparently out of snobbery. I should point out to this dear lady that McDonalds already have a university, and that to have worked in a McDonalds crew or, even better, to have managed a McDonalds, is a good thing to have on your cv. What McDonalds insist on is consistent quality and comparability, something that the UK's teaching unions and examination boards have no concept of. Whether you like hamburgers or not, and I do not like them , is irrelevent.

Dave, Slough,

Having been in marketing for years, I started looking for a new company to work for. The companies I apply to look at my HNDs in marketing and graphic design, and eight years practical experience, and are impressed. Recruitment agencies won't even 'keep my details on record' because I don't have a degree in marketing or similar.

Edro, Aberdeen,

Cupid's motto was "be bold, (but be not too bold)". Similarly academic work is a route to wealth, but only to those who don't have any real love for it. Once that is understood, the majority of schoolchildren no longer want too high an academic status. MacDondald's doctorates in burgerology can then be sold an alternative way of gaining material prosperity, pure and simple.
It when we see academic work as the only route to riches, and therefore demand the trappings of academic discipline for non-academic subjects, that problems start. The non-academic subjects are held in contempt, because children can see through that pretence, whilst philosophy herself is degraded and debased by ambitious students.

Malcolm McLean, Bradford, UK

Degrees and Pre uni qualifications are all too common that they have not much value in Asia now. Lots are unemployed and having a degree doesn't ensure performance at work.

Dr Jon Tay, Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

If in doubt, find someone else to foot the bill. Vocational training is very expensive compared with academic learning, which is why our impoverished government does not do it. Any step towards filling this gap is very worthwhile but it would be better if such qualifications were reasonably consistent within skills across different kinds of employer. I see a danger that a hamburger qualified person would not be easily accepted by a railway operation, or that an air engineering trainee might consider some others to be in a lower category. Consistency is important.

Colin , Shrewsbury,

It is a little remembered fact that in the fifties and sixties, the gas and electric boards and the GPO paid City and Guilds of London Institute to conduct examinations in subjects for which they provided the syllabus, lecturers and examiners, they also set the pass mark: since these organisations based their promotion criteria on these qualifications the passmark varied as the number of vacancies varied. Large local companies had their own arrangements with their local technical colleges: national certificates could be very local indeed.

John Camus, Colchester,

The first task for the education of young people is to teach them to think for themselves, not to teach them how to get their heads round sytems that are designed to do the thinking for them.

figurewizard, Hampshire, UK

Yes, decent workplace education is desirable, but it is far less important than good academic education, so we should concentrate on that first, as we don't have it at present. It is already clear that the present government is not capable of improving vocational education without causing even more degradation of academic education as collateral damage. Children with a good academic education will be able to adapt to the needs of their career as adults, but children with only a good vocational education have less flexibility, and those with only a bad vocational education have hardly any flexibility at all.

Oliver Chettle, Bedford,

If the quoted question from a GCSE Physics paper is true then that GCSE, at least, is worthless. So it seems employers will have to pick up the slack from a failed government system

There's nothing wrong with certs for employer training as long as the accrediting body is itself credible.

Why not recreate training programs akin to the old apprecticeships ?

Stan(expat), Texas, USA

A good article. I would add that it is now imperative that the government does not raise the school leaving age or continue to peddle the damaging myth that university is good for everyone.

Neel, London,

Microsoft have been doing this for years. Their qualifications are very well respected. At least they get people who are competent in the subject rather than the semi literate people spewed out by the state system.

Simon, Chatham, Kent

The University of Buckingham gives 'highly valued degrees'? Are you sure? The only degrees I consider to be worthwhile (barring exceptions in certain fields) are Oxbridge and the University of London. For all other universities, standards are too low.

John Scott, London,

Twoddle. I once worked for a company that sold fridges, tvs etc... whilst I was at Uni. They invented something called an 'academy' where I was 'encouraged' to take part in tests to add to my academic acumen. I was told that this academy could distribute qualifications equivalent to A-Levels. In fact it turned out that it was a good way to keep a check on my corporate allegiance to that company and to prove I was super-efficient. It amounted to nothing at all.

It will be the same with the mcqualification and rail-level; they are there for corporate spin, tax deductable purposes, to keep an eye on the efficiency and loyalty of their staff and to drive the nail into the coffin of the UK becoming the world's service nation.

Barney, Liverpool, UK

Hurrah for Libby,

I was a graduate appentice, some of my training was a bit dull but then they put me with an old sod who had lots of experience. He let me learn, intervened when necessary and I became useful.

Now I am an old sod. I have a few young colleagues and what I like best is having a chance to show off just how much I know. They ask me questions and I give them nice short answers. I train them - nothing formal, just a chat and I actually feel useful to them and to my employer. Training is good for the people giving it too. In fact, life's quite good.

Doubtful Dicky, Baden, Switzerland