Who says Sunday was a shambles? Who says the police were “humiliated”? A triumph, I call it. What are the Olympics about if not persistence, courage and goodwill towards foreigners (in this case Tibetans), and the expression of these qualities through the kind of doughty physical fitness that leaps over barriers and wrestles sinewy opponents? As for the police, they did their job and kept everyone concerned alive. Good.
OK, a few of the protesters were just out for a ruck; that is the case in all demonstrations. But most were sincere and non-violent and took pains to get Tibetan flags and paint literate banners. You do not need to be fanatically anti-Chinese to admit that the Chinese Government is not behaving well in Tibet, or to be uneasy at the calculated pageantry of the Olympic torch's procession through our streets with a phalanx of Chinese guards. Given that Turkey and Greece had already demonstrated and France was gearing up, it would have been feeble indeed if Britain had not bothered.
Even some bearers - like Sir Steve Redgrave who started the relay and Konnie Huq who nearly had the torch grabbed off her - say they are glad to live in a country where people can protest. It takes stuffed shirts such as Duncan Goodhew and Seb Coe to huff that it was a “disgrace” and the event ruined by “a few people breaking the law”. It would have been equally efficiently and deservedly ruined just by the myriad flags, atrocity photos and placards. The excitable Huq-wrestlers and police-kickers were inevitable, regrettable perhaps, but marginal. The point is that the demonstrators made their point.
Western democracies had no need to go along with this relay. The international flame-tour is not time-honoured. Hitler invented it in 1936 with the torch coming from Greece to Germany as a pan-Aryan gesture. It did not catch on for 64 years, until Sydney touted it round the Pacific rim, again for political reasons. Then Athens staged a tour in 2004 to mark the Games' return to their first home. It just went round the bidding cities, with little brouhaha, turned up at Wimbledon and went up the Mall with Sir Roger Bannister. It passed calmly; but then Greece was not engaged in abusing an oppressed province. It is China - economically rising, full of national pride - that set up this unprecedented 85,000 mile epic and demanded that the flame - with attendant security toughs - should be carried through every possible country. And end up, triumphant, in beaten and tortured Lhasa. If that is not political, what is?
Tessa Jowell, the Minister for the Olympics, paid sullen lip service to the freedom of demonstration on the Today programme yesterday, but added: “Would it have been better if the torch had passed smiling crowds and cheering children? Yes it would.” No, Tessa, it wouldn't. Given the Tibet situation - deaths, torture, religion and dissent silenced - it would have been damn suspicious.
And talking of suspicious, I have no idea why the aforementioned Konnie Huq of Blue Peter fame was carrying the torch at all. But she did us all a service with her artless revelations about the mysterious Chinese “torch attendants” in blue tracksuits who ran alongside her inside the phalanx of puffing Metropolitan police. The tracksuited ones were, she said wonderingly, “very full-on”. They had some kind of an altercation with the British police, she says, and kept forcing her hand up to hold the torch higher. Unattractive, wouldn't you say? Rather like the American secret servicemen who so patronise our police when a US president visits. These things jar. More, to me, than the barrier-jumpers and wielders of fire extinguishers.
Almost equally unattractive was the spectacle of Gordon Brown welcoming the flame at Downing Street with one of his best “uneasy” expressions, and the BBC's odd implication that it was er, sort of OK because he shook hands but didn't actually touch the torch. Wouldn't want to burn his fingers.
Strangely, so you might think after all that, I am not against the Beijing Olympics or advocating a pious boycott. Provided the athletes are allowed to speak out freely, they should be left to compete in peace. The world should hope that the event contributes - as it yet might - to China's genuine if gradual emergence into a family of nations holding more humane values. A boycott would be, apart from anything else, massively hypocritical. Each of us deals with China every single day. Our banks have profitable branches there, we need the cargo ships they build at such a rapid rate, Chinese investment props up British industries and we sell to them and gladly buy their goods on the high street. Chinese recyclers turn our plastic bottles into cheap fleeces that we then equally gladly wear (ironically, probably a lot of those fleeces were jumping over barriers on Sunday). Ignoring China's energy and drive in a globalised economy would be impossible. And stupid.
But joining in China's triumphalism is not necessary. Not right now, not with the suffering and injustice rife in Tibet. This torch procession is nakedly political and should not have been encouraged by our leaders, even leaders in a panic about the confusion and mismanaged costs that threatens to make our own 2012 Games unpopular. Hopes of “smiling crowds and cheering children” were beyond stupid. It was a bad call.
Luckily, when the guttering flame reached London there were enough spirited protesters to save our national honour. I am as grateful to them as to any gold medallist. More so, actually.
Dan Sweeney, Belfast,
Dear Dan Sweetie, There was no plot and there was no illegal occupation of Tibet. It is just that Tibet is a part of China and if you do not call it a province, pray tell what should it be called.
Maybe you are not happy but there are many happy Tibetans in Tibet sharing the harmony with their Han brothers and sisters.
Why compare East Timor and Indonesia so far away. Don't you have a case in your own backyard?
Thanks but no thanks for your "concern".
140408
Lim, JB, Malaysia
han xu, shanghai, China
Please do not call for a boycott of the London games in 2012. It is against our Principle. Remember Confucius saying: "Do not do unto others what you do not want others do unto you."
Going by this saying it is not right to boycott.
China has morals and principles.
To Jason, Toronto,
Go on, use more abusive and make more biased remarks. You and your kind have made so many similar allegations that the Chinese do not feel hurt anymore. Just carry on. Also blame those expats for being supportive of China.
The world has also seen how you play your nasty game, twisting facts and adding fire to things that did not happen and you know it very well. Your hatred of the Communist govt is so intense that you are blind to the things they did so well for China and its people. I must add you are jealous too of the progress China has made.
Anyway the cries if any from Tibet is never greater than the cries from Iraq. Any thought about this?
110408
Lim, JB, Malaysia
boycott London Olympic Games because of Iraq!
han xu, shanghai, China
The demonstrations have given the Chinese government the opportunity to reveal their true and hateful core to the world. Their insistence on 'crushing' Tibetan demonstrators disgrace themselves more than a million protesters ever could. The same can be said for their many expatriate supporters who are seemingly unable to distinguish between a denunciation of the current Communist regime and an attack on Chinese culture. I'm amazed at how they take inordinate pride in millenia of history (something they as individuals had nothing to do with), but have no compassion for the suffering of actual human beings in Tibet.
They embarrass me and they embarrass themselves.
Jason, Toronto,
You can hardly be right or objective whenever comment based upon you own experience.
1, Human rights means different things in different time and different place. China is improving this very much day by day. It is a long term process. Nobody can turn it around over night.
2, Olympic is a sport game, should has nothing to do with politics. Olympic will be taking place in Beijing, but it is for all over the world.
3, Tiebet must be a lot worse without support from China govenment. Small amount of poeple wanting to be independent happens in many countries in the world. Other countries or poeple have no right to comment on it. Because different party has different value, and it changes over time.
4, As a Chinese, I am very happy to see so many foreigners see this fairly and are not misled by media. You know how much you can trust on media...
Cotton, Suzhou, China
I agree that it is a good thing for a message of dissaproval to be sent to the Chinese government, not just for Tibet, but for their human rights record in general. However, the tone of many of the posts and the protests here and elsewhere come accross as simply hostile and racist, making it more unlikely that the message will get through.
If you heard that another country (or, as in the case of America, the rest of the world) was full of people saying such things about you, how would you react? It won't encourage Chinese people to change their ways to make us like them; it'll make them more nationalistic and less likely to care about our opinions.
People saying things like "China needs to understand why we hate them" are ridiculous and harmful. If I hated the Chinese, why would I care about their government abusing their human rights?
Edd Bullen, Sydney, NSW, Australia
I agree, Libby
John Chan
in Weihai China
John Chan, Issaquah...visiting China, USA/WA
Dear Andrew Cohen, London : "Chinese should understand how they are hated around the world".do you know why?
first,the westerner have always been used to self-centered,they think they are borned superior to oher people,no matter in which respect.they believe the western civilization must be advanced than other's.
second,china has been emerging as a big power in the world ,which caused jeslousy and panic in these so-called "developed" countries.they have long taken it for granted that chinese shoud at the despose of them,they are afraid of failling to "control" china.in fact,they are so pleased to see a weak china.
third,so many so-called developed countries are so unreasonably narrow-minded that they can't bear any difference in terms of social stucture and social theries.
siue, new delhi, india
I fully agree - apart from the boycott thing. I think that the European governments should stay out of the Opening and Closing ceremonies. Let the athletes compete, enjoy and celebrate their wins and spirits. Including the Chinese athletes! They are doing their thing to make a better world. But exclude all the politicians.
Michael, Gamleby, Sweden
This has destroyed the credibility of the Official Olympics. We need a Fairtrade Olympics to replace it.
Tom, Bristol,
The question all civilised human beings and nations should be asking is why was China awarded the Games in the first place? A country which has never been a democracy, habitually eliminates or imprisons anyone who challenges the Communist party line, does not understand or accept the notion of human rights, still operates an economic system based to some degree on 'slave' labour and routinely executes those it deems as 'deviants' whether religious, intellectual or otherwise. In what sense will these Games 'promote' democratic change in China or move it along that path? What is happening in Tibet is simply one manifestation of discontent that has been festering for decades and which has now found a platform to air its grievances to the world in general. The current torch affair, whilst significant, is not the real issue. What is, is that China is now being exposed for what it is - the antithesis of a genuine democratic nation as once envisaged by the Games original Greek founders.
Colin Maclean, Edinburgh,
You can call it "A triumph" but think this way: you have every right to express yourself and show you support to Tibet, while others may just want to hold the torch and pass though peacefully. When you used the force to take away other people's right, you did the same thing as exactly communist china does, for which you guys have criticized for years.
the other sad aspect is the Chinese government will use those events to boost the nationalism which could help it to stay longer in china.
Nick, Markham, Canada
Why is it that because I have a pair of shoes / packet of sweets made in China somehow my views on Chinese human rights are somehow null and void? As a typical UK based Joe-6-pack I may well be linked to China via my consumerism but for God's sake please don't tell me I'm complicit in murder and torture. Yes, it is true to say that it sometimes takes a media fuelled sledgehammer to waken the public up from their selfish slumber but regardless of this the protests are just and well founded.
John McArthur, Leeds, UK
Lily,
Though there are certain institutional advantages their impact is not as sweeping as you imply.
Firstly, ethnic minorities are not entirely exempt from the one child policy. If they have a male child they are not allowed more children. If they have a female child they are allowed to have one more child. This is positive discrimination in favour of ethnic minorities but it is not the same as exemption.
Secondly, though there is positive discrimination over fees and grade requirements Tibetans still face a linguistic barrier when compared with Han students: the oral medium of education is Mandarin, and the written medium Chinese characters.
Tibetan parents of children of school age will have had any education they received severely disrupted by the Cultural Revolution, hence few are fully literate in Chinese. The likely hood that they could help their children to study is therefore very slim. Possible reconciliation of racial tension requires reformed bilingual education.
Malcolm, London, UK
To Dan Sweeney (Belfast) "Pease stop referring to Tibet as a Chinese province as its not, any more than East Timor was an Indonesian province. ."
If no, what "country" does Tibet belong to in your opinion? Plz don't tell me Tibet belongs to UK or Ireland. Can you name a SINGLE government in the last 800 years that recognized / recognizes that Tibet was / is a country? If no, your thought could be really revolutionary. I suggest you to consult your local MP.
I see you followed East Timor also: instead, why not try to name 10 countries within 200 plus countries in the world community today, where UK has never been to, to loot , slave and kill the local folks?
1.000.000 Iraqis DEAD and counting... I wonder is it seriously entertaining for you to condemn China for its crackdown, within her border, on dozens or hundreds (depending on which version) Tibetan peaceful protestors (who just happened to have long hunting knives in hands) in central downtown?
E. Wong, Amsterdam, the Netherlands
ITS IS JUST CHINA ROCKS
and all westerns are not able to beleave that a eastern country is exponentially progressing leaving them far behind.
Raj, Bangalore, INDIA
Islam and /or Communism are similar. In the first case religion is used, in the second case it is 'ideology'. The 21st century is still glued by old "ism's', and freedom of humanity is again hope for uncertain future... May be in century 22?
Communist leaders of China, and Ayatollah's of Iran are not so different. You can see they have excellent relationship...
Michel, Marseille, France
1. What China government has done in Tibet is by no means "shameful". Ttibetans, alone with other minorites, enjoy some advantages over Hans, for example, they don't need to comply with one-child-policy, they are accepted at lower grades by universities, and they are exampt (part) of tuition fees.
2. The western media's report about recent Tibet protests are supprisingly biased, ignorant, and discussingly arrogant. With a picture where remarkbly red chinese "ambulance" is painted on a vehicle, the reporter says the police were arresting the protester. Few of the German media cleared this, even they did, with an atitude of "regret" rather than sincere "appologise". It strikes to me that many westerners believe that, whatever their media says it must be right, and whatever the chinese government says it must be lying, pictures and vidios forged. With such attitude, there's no point to communicate.
3. People died in Tibet. But who died? Killed by whom? You don't care.
Lily, Delft,
Have I lost the plot entirely? Since when did invasion and illegal occupation transfer sovereignty? PLease stop referring to Tibet as a Chinese province as its not, any more than East Timor was an Indonesian province.
Dan Sweeney, Belfast,
During Apartheid SA was excluded, based on their policies and human rights, from international sporting events such as the Olymics. This was the case for general trade sanctions as well. These were effective in my opinion. Very few state and sports leaders have the courage or moral fibre to be consistent with their policies and it seems as if only the smaller economies will/can be sanctioned. The ripple effect through the word would simply be too great. If Swaziland were suppressing a certain tribe (not that they are just for the illustration) would anyone notice if they were excluded from the Olympics? Consistancy is required in ALL "political" matters.
Smith, Cape Town, South Africa
I still maintain that it's hypocritical that people are only upset about Tibet now that the media is watching the torch. How many years has Tibet been under the same conditions it is today? Yet today people are protesting, throwing items at olympic champions, attacking the torch itself, etc. All because the media is watching.
Go protest at the games. I dare you.
Bill, Stoney Creek, Canada
If you disagree with what China is doing then stop buying their products.
What China does they do with your money.
John, New York,
As a Scot who has lived in China and studied Chinese language and history for five years I too respect recent protests against human rights abuses in the PRC. I also agree that protest should not lead to a lack of engagement with China.
The argument in earlier posts that there has been no recent suppression of Tibetans is palpably ludicrous. It is true that most of the protests in Lhasa were race riots against Hans, while the protests in Sichuan, Gansu and Qinghai were not all violent. Yet nothing justifies the response with lethal force.
The vehemence of these protests shows that Tibetans are not all grateful for the TAR's double digit economic growth. Many resent the Han Chinese immigrants who have profited far more than ethnic Tibetans, something both Han Chinese and Tibetans said to me when I visited the TAR. Resolution of some of these tensions will not come from increased PRC investment but from reform in education and training of Tibetans to address deep economic inequalities.
Malcolm, London, UK
These protesters are exploiting the Olympics to publicise their pet causes, at the expense of the Olympic athletes who just want to compete. When the Olympics inevitably conclude, the spotlight will no longer be on the host. Will all these activist theatrics come to naught?
Brien, Singapore,
It is shameful that China can demand that governments across the world prevent protests and the police tackle protesters who disrupt proceedings when the torch is being carried. What China does not realize is that most countries allow peaceful protests. The reactions of the Chinese proves how dumb they can be when it comes to the reality -- just because they can gag protesters at home, they cannot expect other countries to follow suit. Another issues is that even athletes who compete at the highest level can express their views -- does China believe that athletes should only compete and not have a personal opinion on world affairs. I wish that some of the athletes use their intelligence and express their views by wearing ‘free Tibet’ T-shirts, black armbands etc. while at Beijing for the Olympics. Wearing a ‘free Tibet’ T-shirt does not impact one’s performance in any way.
joji philip, New Delhi, India
We do need to remember how "into" China we are. The feeble cries of "boycott China" from some comments I've read over this weekend are just plain ignorant, because these people probably have 90% Chinese goods in their households. I don't believe they mean it!
But yes, for this reason we are responsible, we should feel that we need to guide China into a "family of nations holding more humane values". Gradual, I believe it must be, but genuine only if we can show ourselves to be!
I wish we'd been more dignified, and intelligence had been better to lock the hooligans away at home. Because, where I disagree slightly with you, is that we made a fool of ourselves. Of course the stupid scuffles and the ridiculous attempt at wrenching the torch out of Konnie Huq's hand, are the sort of lawless and brutish images that are now going to be etched on the minds of the Chinese.
Those idiots showed democracy up, playing right into the hands of something they neither understand nor care about.
Simon, London,
Before 1848 Opium War with Britain, Chinese people lived in peace. Britain forced China to trade on British terms with fire arms and sold huge amount cheap goods from Manchester and other industril cities to China. Up to now UK people still enjoy the dividends from what your ancestors did in China and other former colonies one way or another. Don't forget, Chinese people are just as good as any other people in the world, if not better ( We have one of the longest civalizations in the world and we have a track record of helping people in other countries and we work harder as a nation).
Andrew Cohen ( London, UK), should I suggest that people all over the world should hate British given you ancestors acquired so many colonies through force in history？ I think what you said makes you an anti-Chinese who is unhappy seeing Chinese doing well. Well then, I am afraid you will have misreable time in the rest of your life because China will go from Strenghth to Strenghth. 1/5
jane, nottingham,
"I am a conservative, Bush-loving, McCain-voting, card-carrying Republican and I WILL PROTEST IN SAN FRANCISCO on Wednesday in solidarity with everyone else against the running of the Torch of Shame through the city. This is not about left or right, it's about liberty, self-determination for the Tibetans, and democracy for China. All of us can agree that China is a humanitarian, environmental, and (now) virological disaster, and that it's time to drive the point home hard. Watch us."
Highly sterotypical hyprocritical comment from someone who lives in a contry founded upon the genocide of the indegious people supporting a bush regime that have invaded 2 countries (since the occupation of tibet) and touture people on an overseas territoty somewhere and are the biggest polluters on this planet by far .
raymond, the norf, uk
"I can't make up my mind if it is central party coercion or outright racism" - John Tomlinson, Brentwood, UK
"Chinese should understand how they are hated around the world" - Andrew Cohen, London
Here we go! First the Chinese were themselves oppressed by their Government, now the Chinese themselves are racist.
So this is what it feels like to be Muslim.
Chee, Coventry,
Russ, Glasgow: "Massive build up and ceremonies, without any substance."
In fact a superfluity of "substances" is another reason why the Olympics will be a sham!
Frederick James, London,
aaronzzt, Beijing, China
Well said that person. Us Brits need to "take the stick out of our own eyes before we criticize others", look at our track record, when we are perfect then let us cast the first stone! It's fine to shout "Get out of Tibet!", how about we "Get out of Iraq and Afghanistan!"
We feel threatened by the rise in power of China and so we see them as a target, we obviously feel no threat and will achieve no gain from getting involved with the situations occuring in Zimbabwe for example!
ChasNDave, Cumbria, UK
Chinese should understand how they are hated around the world. Probably more than US. They should free Tibet of their clutches. The illegal and forcible occupation will only make the world despise them more. They don't deserve the Olympics.
Andrew Cohen, London, UK
Whilst being against the current regime in China I would like to protest against the Olympics and the implied support for them from all directions.
I like and play sport, I also watch sport, but the Olympic ideals are now dead, professional atheletes training for decades to travel to an isolated "village" to compete for a couple of weeks. Massive build up and ceremonies, without any substance.
Of course the media love them because it's cheap news and fodder for tv and papers, so any negativity is derided.
If I was asked then I would cancel 2012 and spend the money on sports facilities.
Russ, Glasgow,
To those who wish to protest, there is a very easy solution: do not watch the Olympics on tele, or go to China to watch them in person. The athletes are there to compete, we are told, so let them. But they can do it to a deafening world-wide silence. I'm sure the Chinese government could fill the stadium with lackeys but it's the world they want to have enthusing at the brilliance of the Beijing Games.
You can protest - ignore the Games.
Sarah, Montpellier, France
The perfect response to China's global antics is to simply not watch a second of the Olympics this summer.
I'm a big sports fan but I'll just find something else to do and not a second of coverage will get onto the TV at my house.
China can try to showcase their repulsive regime via the o
Olympics all they like but if people don't watch any of it it's doomed to failure. A perfect peaceful way of protesting. Here's hoping for abysmal viewing figures.
Guy, London, UK
As a Chinese, I think my country is opening up to the world today. That is no suppression on the Tibet recently, but tons of evidence showing the roit voilence recently. Glad to see the restore of social stability with restrainted actions. Thanks to the "unbiased" western media, I got to know where we are, a big gap between us.
Olympics is a big chance for enhancing the exchange and good for the harmony of our global. Even the waring countries can sit down and enjoy the peace. What is wrong now !!!??? Coz it can be used as a tool to split the world, rather than to make our planet livable. Today, the radical protest is damaging the Olympics. Very disappointed!
Welcome to Beijing !!! That is the way...
chan, Sendai, Japan
Where were all the "human rights activists" and other layabouts when Chairman Mao was responsible for the deaths of tens of millions? Making excuses of course. How musing that the Dalai Lama-a nice man of course- is now the great hero of "pro-democarcy camopaigners". I suppose being reincarnated short-cuts the tedious business of getting elected. As others have pointed out, the Chinese have not in the past taken well to hysterical vilification by ignorant Westerners and will not this time.
MikeS, London,
It is not just stubborn China, but the out of touch Olympics themselves that have drawn the scorn of people around the world. Bloated by the billions spent on stadiums and advertising, while the poor choke on pollution and undrinkable water, and by the mis-use of sports to promote the nationalistic flag waving, torch lighting rituals favored by totalitarian governments, these games remind us of how little the common man matters. They don't serve brotherhood, and all the pious speeches in the world won't change the fact that they have become just like the WTO and G-8, a show for the benefit of the few, at the expense of the many. If China thought they could use these games to trumpet their superiority, they are in for a nasty surprise.
ingo , los angeles, california, usa
We, the country that still maintains a invasion army fighting a illegal war in Iraq, has been indulging ourselves in the last few days on a self-perceived moral high ground by criticising China's human rights record. While the critised was a country that we had heavily looted just a century ago. Evidence of such lootings are still abundant today in the museums across the so-call civilised world, eg UK, France, US, etc.
Bill, London,
The Chinese people now enjoy more human rights than ever before. But the Chinese people will remember the British army robbed and killed them and took Hong Kong as british land just over 150 years ago when China was very poor.Why no people from UK defent Chinese people's human rights at that time?? Now China is getting stronger and richer, are the westerners sure of yourselves that you are the defenders of the human rights of the Chinese people? Pls come to China, have a look and then have a say.
Zhang, Beijing, China
aaronzzt, Beijing, China
One thing is for sure, there is a lot of propagandising going on attached to the Olympics and the Chinese are very active on a range of blogs 'correcting' people's views. To read some of this stuff is to know what you are up against, a wilful child is the nearest that I can come to. I am glad that the protest went ahead and I think that the level of unanimity is commendable in Britain and France. But where I diverge from the BBC and the cautious commentator approach is that I do not think that it is worth risking the ire of the Chinese, to this end we should respectfully bow out of the Olympics all together on the grounds the British public do not want to have any enmity towards China and would hope that by not competing we would avoid a repetition of the London and Paris events. Really, for the sake of a celebration of running and jumping and throwing it is not worth it. The whole thing is nationalistic, elitist, self-aggrandising, results of no meaning cloaked in 'science'.
Malcolm Turner, Alsager, England
The number of posts I've seen on boards such as these in the past few days from people living in China who say we don't understand the country and keep out of their affairs is incredible. I can't make up my mind if it is central party coercion or outright racism
John Tomlinson, Brentwood, UK
Just looking at the faces of protesters contorted with such self-righteous indignation was enough to make me feel sick. Have these people ever even visited Tibet? I expect the answer for most would be either “no†or “I backpacked there once.†However, if they had been in Tibet recently, they would know that Han people were burned alive by rioters because of their race. When this happened to white farmers in Zimbabwe, we demanded action.
Most of us will naturally side with David and not Goliath. However, Goliath in this story is pumping billions of dollars into Tibet and giving the majority of Tibetans chances they never dreamt of previously. Whatever we might believe, most Tibetans are benefiting from and actively encourage this investment. Perhaps, we prefer to keep Tibet in the past so we can marvel at how “well preserved†their culture is. This only maintains the status quo and ensures Tibetans are kept in poverty. If China is to behave reasonably, then perhaps we should, too.
Lee Farrington, Hangzhou, China
Well said Jonathan Sanders. The naivety of those that say these protests are not against the Chinese people simply do not understand that the Chinese population see these Olympic Games as their 'moment'. The current protests and inflammatory remarks by numerous newspaper editors will fuel anti-Western feelings in China and will lead to years of ethnic hatred between the Chinese and Tibetans. There needs to be attempts to calm this situation down - I only see attempts to win cheap political points with no regard for the terrible consequences that may result (eg. Hillary Clinton jumping on the bandwagon today to call for a boycott). People with a genuine interest for Tibet and China should be calling for quiet dialogue - the Chinese (and by this I mean both the government and the population) do not respond well to insults
KO, London,
You don't understand China Libby. I doubt if you have ever been there. China is a relaxed and comfortable place to live. It is insane to encourage separatists in Tibet and the religious fundamentalism of the Dalai Lama. That old fraud. I really wonder about this level of stupidity and the hear hears of our trendy fashionable classes
Far better the hard working industrious Chinese than the lazy workshy religious fanatics who burnt down Lhasa with western approval
No I am not interested in your opinions purves or the chattering classes you seem to represent. save your opinions for the bistro in Notting Hill or the organic Museli shop you frequent
Brit in China, China, China
The anti-torch demonstrators are trying to impose their will and snuff out the Olympic flame, which represents much more than China, just like the Chinese government is trying to snuff-out Tibetan culture. The two sides have more in common with each other than they might suspect.
Paskalis, Stoupa, Messinias, Greece
"Funny, what would you say to the Chinese immigrants and students in UK who support the Olympics and see these protests anti-Chinese?"
That they should not be so paranoid and recognise the failings of the Chinese government? All too often I see nonsense from Chinese that equates criticism of China/the Chinese government as being against "all Chinese". That's nonsense - more people need to accept that.
Francis, London,
I am a conservative, Bush-loving, McCain-voting, card-carrying Republican and I WILL PROTEST IN SAN FRANCISCO on Wednesday in solidarity with everyone else against the running of the Torch of Shame through the city. This is not about left or right, it's about liberty, self-determination for the Tibetans, and democracy for China. All of us can agree that China is a humanitarian, environmental, and (now) virological disaster, and that it's time to drive the point home hard. Watch us.
Paul Woodside, San Jose, California
I agree, but you missed one point, Libby. It is an old adage but not tired: "All publicity is good publicity". The games may be controversial, but they are guaranteed record attention.
Graham, Havant, UK
At the end of the day, the protests tend the ego of the British, but have little positive impact on the Chinese and its Tibetan population.
The Olympics doesn't just belong to the Chinese government. Patriotism doesn't necessarily mean agreeing with the government. Many of us should understand this distinction after the Iraq War. If the US or UK were having an Olympic torch relay in Beijing, and thousands of Chinese are trying to extinguish the torch and pelting athletes with bottles and eggs, it's not hard to imagine that the American or British people would be equally offended, regardless of the original message. Part of the biggest theme of the Olympics is the Respect of Others. When you show a complete lack of respect to a Chinese event involving hundreds of thousands of Chinese (people of many political affiliation and opinions), it's hard to then say "I'm talking about the government, not its people." It's not sincere.
Jonathan Sanders, Chicago, USA
If the notion of those who drive the media is to somehow shame China into becoming a western style democracy, they will have a long wait. China thinks in terms of numbers of generations, not numbers of years. Strict political control from the top is essential to keep it on track with its economic growth. Time is required for the wealth to permeate down to the bulk of its 1.3 billion people. Democracy would only hinder the process. Indeed, it could be argued that democracy can only operate properly where the average wealth is above a certain threshold. This does not excuse human right abuses, but the west cannot be too sanctimonious after it has destabilized Iraq for the foreseeable future and committed abuses of its own.
Dwight Vandryver, Scholar Green, Cheshire, UK
Funny, what would you say to the Chinese immigrants and students in UK who support the Olympics and see these protests anti-Chinese?
Sherry, Toronto, Canada
Excellent article, I attended the protests to draw attention away from the Chinese propaganda and towards the thousands of troops drafted into Tibet under a media blackout.
John, london, London
China is not perfect and the way that they have treated Tibet is no worse than what goes on throughout China. The government have improved drastically in 30 years and a successful Olympics will add to that. Rome wasn't built in one day.
Inside China, the mood is that the west is being prejustice. They are playing into the hands of separatists agitators who have chosen this appropriate time to demonstrate. With most of the western media bluntly racist and anti-China anyway - this was always going to result in a backlash against a no-win China.
This encouragement of the west will take the Tibetan cause back several decades and make the situation worse for Tibetans - especially after the Olympics when the Chinese authorities will crack down hard on the demonstrators.
China will never give up Tibet just as the USA will never part with California. The west should work with China to improve the lot of the Tibetans rather than trying to stir up trouble that will only make matters worse.
John Lee, Dudley, UK
Yes. This was our rare chance to send a message to the Chinese government that might be heard. We need to take these opportunities to tell them that we consider the people of Tibet and China our brothers and sisters, and that they deserve to have their human rights respected.
We exercised the very right of free expression, which is so fundamental to the change we would like to see in China. We are not anti-Chinese, or anti-Olympics. We are pro-Chinese, and that is why we want the Chinese people to enjoy the rights that they deserve, and which they are denied.
I'm proud that I and we sent a message, though I am not proud of many other opportunities that I and we miss, to send such messages.
Chris Kavanagh, London, England
Yes. This was our rare chance to send a message to the Chinese government that might be heard. We need to take these opportunities to tell them that we consider the people of Tibet and China our brothers and sisters, and that they deserve to have their human rights respected.
We exercised the very right of free expression, which is so fundamental to the change we would like to see in China. We are not anti-Chinese, or anti-Olympics. We are pro-Chinese, and that is why we want the Chinese people to enjoy the rights that they deserve, and which they are denied.
I'm proud that I and we sent a message, though I am not proud of many other opportunities that I and we miss, to send such messages.
Chris Kavanagh, London, UK
Well said. Couldn't agree more.
Dean, Oxford, UK
Hear, hear.
Finbar, Achill Island,