There is an old saying.......the best teacher is the one bringing doubts and queries to his own teaching or you will never truthly learn without doubting.
Breaking the rules sometimes is mandatory, although we also need to be strict to certain rules- respect for life and freedom.

Inaki, Madrid, Spain

There's no energy left for using initiative because we're all having to go to pointless training days all the time - and woe betide you if you break the rules: a fat snidy jobsworth, often a woman, will reprimand you.

Richard, Ipswich, UK

There are simply not enough intelligent, reasonably well-educated people with confidence and initiative, to fill all the jobs in society which call for these qualities.

Have no illusions; things will not get better.

Asmodeus, London,

Here's the key phrase: "soulless micromanagement from the top."

What else do you expect from a government that gets its best ideas from the worst of the tabloids? That figures anybody's ideas are as good as the experts'? That does not differentiate training and education?

I feel sorry for Britain.

RW, Victoria, BC, Canada

Thank God for people who break the rules to save those in danger. Where are we heading when we ask professionals to stand back and consult the rule book when someone is in difficulty.
We are being managed by craven jobsworths fearful of initiative. Who will help them when they are in trouble ?

Bill Allen, Biggar, South Lanarkshire

Hear hear, but this should be out on the front page and demands made of these wimpering half wits to let those who can think, do. The drawback is that the 'authorities' 'responsible' take no notice and carry on in their self congratulatory way.

Neil Davey, Ivybridge, UK

Emma, Oxford - I'd be amazed to hear anyone from Huddersfield say "Innit".

Ken, Atyrau, Kazakhstan

I despise British jobsworths. They are the very symbols of a bastard Teutonic culture. We love the rules which gladden our German cousins so much, but unlike Germany, nothing works properly in Britain. The more we apply the rules, the less things work.

R. Douglas, Princes Risborough, UK

The Denmark 49er pair most certainly broke the rules and were rewarded for their cheating with an unfair gold medal which by rights belonged to Spain. The Olympic jury was disgusting in its blatant disregard for the rules.

Eugene, Gerona, Spain

This pettiness is why it is so critical that we resist Labour's ID card/massive database. Surveillance breeds infractions, infractions breed fines, fines breed incentives for more laws which breeds more surveillance and so it goes on. WE must stop them: they are simply not able to stop themselves.

David, Edinburgh, Scotland

totally correct , Libby - lets start by teaching kids to be divergent thinkers in school - esae off the National Curriculum restraints and give room to creative projects for 10% of timetable + after -school activities. i've done it - it works.

pete, ludlow, england

I once saw a St Johns first aider offering oxygen to a man who had broken his leg. It appeared that he had to have the patients permission before he could give him the relief: but the patient - whose leg was in two pieces - was Belgian, and either out of it, or screaming; it was crazy gone mad.

oliver, cambridge,

You are being a bit foolish. Training people to "break rules" is really training them to take risks and accept personal responsibility.

If these folks were emotionally capable of taking risks, they wouldn't be petty bureaucrats in the first place.

We live in a risk averse society. Change that!

jon livesey, Sunnyvale, CA/USA

'Petty bureaucrats are a necessary evil' - yes, but so many of them? Having such a lot of dead weight in the UK simply offers the conditions for 'make work' and the need to justify existences. I hope the next government has to courage to trim their numbers dramatically.

Colin, shrewsbury,

Jerry, Give the whole quote, please

"Rules are for obedience by fools and for the guidance of wise men"

Becca, excellent point

Libby, bureucracy is EVIL and there is NO EXCUSE Individual bureaucrats may be sensible prople but are overwhelmed by the apparachiki

I'm glad I'm an expat now!

Chris Davison, Yas Island Development, Abu Dhabi UAE

cull the bureaucrats and cull eu and then cull the rulrs

terry sullivan, morden, england

Whilst I agree with the thrust of the article, including the case of the PCSOs is unfair. The family were very quick to blame the men in uniform, but where were the parents when the boy decided to swim in a dangerous disused quarry? Abdication of personal responsibility is the problem in some cases

Sophie, Liverpool,

The country has been under Labour for 11 years. What do you expect?

BP, Cambridge,

Look at supermarkets too - have their managers ever been shopping before they set out stupid rules for their staff to follow? Take Sainsburys asking you how many eco-friendly bags you've used - before you've used them? When I said I couldn't know until I'd finished the assistant got very cross!

Helen, Fleet, UK

The private sector call centres are just as bad. Problem is attitude, nobody wants to work front-line in the UK anymore so levels of managment have been created who have to justify their existence.
No-one trusts front-line staff, where I worked, I was even expected to ask to go the toilet!

Terry Duncalfe, Aylesbury, UK

Another lovely quote is: " A bureaucrat is someone who takes no decisions and escapes all responsibility". People in these jobs learn quickly that initiative is penalised - so do nothing is best.

James McFadden, Marseille,

I was a Police Officer for 10 years. We constantly had to make split second decisions based on little or no information or facts. We used initiative, instinct, common sense, tact and diplomacy. It saved me from a beating many times. Couldn't happen now with target driven culture Britain

Dean, London,

A good summary of officialdom to whome rules are more important than common sense. The anger that this causes should not be underestimated and local councils particularly should realise that people will not always put up with their overbearing attitude to the petty rules they insist on hiding behind

mike gee, bournemouth, uk

"I can say yes, or say NO! Therefore, if I say yes, I might as well not be here, as it isn't my job to be a 'rubber stamp' for every applicant. So I often say no, just to demonstrate my authority! They can always appleal - which is a job for someone else!"
This is how I imagine they self justify.

S. Barraclough, Huddersfield, Yorkshire W. R.

There's an old saying that seems to have disappeared in the mists of time "Rules are for the guidance of wisemen and the observance of fools"

Chris Mann, Peterborough,

It's not culture or bureaucrats. It's the law! The fact is H&S rules have reduced the number of pointless accidents hugely. But for any emergency service, the rules need the amendment "except in extreme emergency". That would require the same amendment to the H&S at Work acts.

Martin, Birmingham,

All the incidents mentioned are from non-profit or semi-governmental concerns. There may be the odd jobsworth lurking in a commercial business, but usually their negative, blocking tactics lead to them being told to change their ways or they are given the boot.. Sadly not in the public sector

John Webster, Aylesbury, England

Civil servants regularly break the rules and maladministrate when ordered to deliver otherwise undeliverable policies. The maladministration is wrapped up in bureaucracy, and the civil servants are praised by their masters. The rules are more for political control, than safety or legal compliance.

martin, sheffield, uk

I love the comparison with a troubled child obsessed with not colouring outside the lines. My understanding of Christ's conflict with the Pharisees was that he was teaching his disciples to colour outside the lines. And what constructive freedom that released! Healing on the Sabbath - no problem!

Nigel MacNicol, Oakham, Rutland Uk

Surely the reason for all of this is the litigious culture we now have brought about by the no win no fee litigation system copied from America.

This bears repeating, and as an American, I must agree.

The conflation of British "jobsworths" with American litigiousness has created a disgusting stew

Scot Danner, Dubai, UAE

We should take care in commenting on this topic. "Bureaucrat" basically means someone working in an office; as, no doubt, many Times readers do, though of course none of us would get tied up in the kind of red tape Libby refers to - would we? At least she allows that there can be "good bureaucrats."

Barry, Wallington, UK

The Cabinet office did a good report on risk a couple of years ago. This acknowledged that the public sector is not very good at handling it. Rules and procedures are used to avoid taking risk. Officials fear their political masters and the media as someone pointed out.

Adam, Ashford,

Good grief ! are you suggesting that that people be allowed to think ? and possibly work it out for themseleves? Now steady on .. The new H&S rules say that you are liable (jail..) if you see a potential problem and do nothing so if it looks questionable people will always fall back on rules

Tony, Cardiff ,

Hang about, Libby! You're asking for a great source of enjoyment to be curtailed, namely the satisfaction enjoyed by any jobsworth who has scored another victim. Currently there is a malicious mindset in Britain, from the government down, and this attitude needs to be obliterated first.

Mike Mitchell, Spalding, England

what do you expect- this country is controlled by communists.

wendy foster, pontefract,

"This benighted country is going to the dogs.
Petty little tyrants abound, commonsense is dead, Hitler would have loved it."
Michael Rigby, chorley,

Don't joke. This is how he came to power - using the mechanism of state control that the socialists before him had created.

Moshe, Ealing, London

I was at school when there was a fire in the playground. While teachers and students tried to carry water to it in garbage bins, five naughty boys had the presence of mind to run up to the first floor - out of bounds - and unleash a stream from the fire hose. That was my lesson in rule breaking.

Damian, London, UK

While I abhor the actions of the Maritime and Coastguard Authority, I can understand their dilemma. Had they approved the use of that craft and the men perished, their widows would have been lining up to sue the MCA for huge sums. It's the litigious nature of our society that's to blame.

David Garfield, London, UK

Echo the experience with the telecoms call centre.
Last year when my mother died,my father's land line was on the blink.
I called BT to find out problem v. fix time, and was stonewalled as I was not the account holder & total failure to comprehend the impact of an event some 2 hrs earlier.

andy, bromsgrove,

Why do your version of bin men not speak proper English? I agree with your general argument, but take exception to the assumption that all bin men end sentences with 'innit'.

Emma, Oxford,

Time and again I'm frustrated because people do not want to think. I fail to understand when we stopped being human & became 'things'. Humans are dynamic and employees need to be empowered enough to make decisions based on current situation & not be penalised for using their brains.

O Lamers, Utrecht, Holland

I thoroughly support the comments of Richard, Philadelphia, though I'd omit the words "out to dry"

Gordon Alexander, Frome, UK

In loacl government, if you use your initiative successfully your boss will take the credit for allowing you to do so, if you're unsuccessful you'll probably get disciplined.

David Leslie, Perth, Scotland

I dobt the rulemakers are so stupid as to make rules which prohibit emergency action.

My company's computer security rules state clearly that exceptions can be made if there is a good (written) reason.

We still have security administrators who refuse to make exceptions.

Blame love of power

Paul Samson, St Genis-Pouilly, France

A very, very important article. It is too late and perhaps idealogically impossible to train the current government to get this, so we must concentrate on lobbying the opposition to understand and embrace the spirit of this article in time for the next parliament.

T Coates, Ambleside, Cumbria

Knowledge is nothing without wisdom.
Training is nothing without wisdom.

The Bible says that "Fear of God is the beginning of all wisdom"

I need say no more

Dave Clemo, Kettering,

Surely the reason for all of this is the litigeous culture we now have brought about by the no win no fee litigation system copied from America. To protect themselves everybody introduces rules & procedures and box ticking. The cost must surely be greater than a good legal aid system?

Derek Morris, Salies de Bearn, France

I love this article, all of it. Especially that bit about understanding the purpose of rules. It would help a lot of the rule makers had to provide plausible reasons for the rules.

Charles Bockett-Pugh, Sandhurst,

Jerry Jones might have added, @........... and the observance of fools'

Chris Wood, Camberley, UK

No!

When you consider the ideology of most local bureaucrats (moral hazard-riddled, PC eco-Marxist leveller), the last thing they need is even more say over policy than they have now. The rules you so disparage are the only control you have.

If you dislike H&S, get rid of it.

If you can!

Albert, Paris,

Maybe we should try... incentives !

Sebastien, Glasgow, Scotland, UK

"Balanced decisions" are needed, with trained people using evidence-based guidance, and above all, their own judgement.

People who have a situation and facts immediately before them are better able to judge the best course of action than a committee, meeting in a room miles away and years ago..

Robert Huxford, London, UK

In my initial training as a construction engineer, I was taught a very valuable phrase that still controls my life.........

'Rules are for the guidance of wise men''

Jerry Jones, Addlestone,

A good & sensible article which only misses one crucial point. In any circumstances where something goes wrong, journalists are the first to start shouting & scapegoating anyone who used initiaitive. Physician - heal thyself!

Becca, Brighton, Englans

Problem is Britain is a society of retribution and blame. Never rehabilitate and always blame someone else. Never look for solutions look for a scapegoat and then go on and on about it until you die. Health and Safety and political correctness has killed this country we are just a bunch of zombies.

Lloyd, London,

It is ironic that many rules are made by those who don't have practical experience of the jobs that those rules apply to, hence the rules should be used as guidance only, especially under emergency circumstances.
Lives have been lost because of lack of initiative of those attending incidents.

George Compton, Rugby, UK

Whenever anything goes wrong some handwringing bureaucrat will blame 'process' rather than individuals. The more 'process' is allowed to control what happens the more robotic idiocies follow. Avoidance of personal accountability is the issue.

James, Norwich, UK

The labour party are a party of rules and employ people to enforce them. Insurance companies jump on the band wagon and exclude rule breaking in the cover. We are a broken society - Cameron has a lot to do to get this country back into the real world

William, London,

I've never heard of anyone getting sacked for blindly following the rules, however rigid and lacking in common sense they are. Until some of the more moronic senior bureaucrats do get disciplined for making patently stupid rules, I fear the petty rule-makers will continue to reign.

Chris K, Cheltenham, UK

Churchill said "The English never draw a line without blurring it!" and how right he was. Rules should be clear, concise and few! People should be given the opportunity to use their skills, knowledge and experience to make a judgement for themselves and we should support that!

Cath, Northampton, Northants

Problem is Britain is a society of retribution and blame. Never rehabilitate and always blame someone else. Never look for solutions look for a scapegoat and then go on and on about it until you die. Health and Safety and political correctness has killed this country we are just a bunch of zombies.

LLoyd, London,

Problem is Britain is a society of retribution and blame. Never rehabilitate and always blame someone else. Never look for solutions look for a scapegoat and then go on and on about it until you die. Health and Safety and political correctness has killed this country we are just a bunch of zombies

Lloyd, London,

Phil from Lancaster has it exactly right. Often officials don't want to take risks because they know that if anything goes wrong someone is likely to sue for compensation.

Elaine, Leeds,

Wrong answer! Right answer is to slash the avalanche of rules to a basic necessary ,minimum. To have rules and play ducks and drakes with them is anarchy - which just about describes what we have.

Dr J Findlater, Carnforth,

On the subject of rules I have this advice: never obey the rules, never tell the truth and never pay cash for anything.

John, LONDON, ENGLAND

Issue is not of 'training' but lack of empathy due to 'health and safety' reasons. The 'heroes' thought emotionally without thinking about the minutiae of 'procedures'. The British culture is somewhat unemotional and thinks logically. Logic is not equal to common sense and humane actions.

Jay, Leicester, UK

In National Service days, everyone was taught to obey rules and to keep an eye out for situations where their pals were in trouble. 18 year olds grew up into adults with a sense of responsibility by the age of 20. Now, we have packs of marauding 18 -- 35 year ods looking for trouble. Bring back N.S

m wilson, bidache, france

What we really need is some way to hang the higher bureaucrat who made the rule out to dry when his stupid rule causes a tragedy. That might stop some of them from making so many rules.

Richard, Philadelphia, USA

This benighted country is going to the dogs.
Petty little tyrants abound, commonsense is dead, Hitler would have loved it.

Michael Rigby, chorley,

Agree and would add the following. Those that claim to prioritise service should give frontline staff (or a duty-manager at least) authority to over-ride the computer. Too often commonsense cannot prevail because the employee is powerless to act outside the limit of what a computer lets them enter.

Mark Felt, London,

Isn't there a contradiction in training people to break rules? Rather like a new government department to cut down on red tape.

If you give people lots of rules they are forced to abandon their natural intelligence to obey the rules. Give them a few principles and let them think for themselves.

Norman, Anstruther, United Kingdom

A few years ago, police arrested a pensioner who had entered his burning flat and saved his disabled wife, when they had decided it was too dangerous to attempt this. What kind of country decrees that an elderly woman must be left to burn to death, and seeks to punish her husband for rescuing her?

Gill, Southampton, UK

It's not so much that bureaucrats need to be 'trained' or 'professionalised' - rather, they need to be set free from central control or 'management' to use common sense. Of course, the development of common sense is thoroughly undermined by modern schools, workplaces and lifestyles. Back to the land

don craigton, wakefield, u.k.

Thought-provoking article, several good points.

But the biggest point of all was missed. How is it that ever-growing numbers of rules are so badly and repressively designed, that they outlaw good practices. Who is doing this, and why aren't the incompetent rule-makers stopped and retrained?

terry stancliffe, london, uk

Interesting how you manage to gloss over the part the media has played (especially 24 hour media) in the constant demand for instant scapegoats, the "where there's blame there's a claim", and the idea you can replace professionals with Google. It has all led to the HSE "culture" we have now got.

Phil, Lancaster, UK