Libby Purves
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I had made a resolution not to type the words “Richard Dawkins” ever again. Last time I tried remonstrating, quite mildly, with that honest atheist, he went ape and accused me of acquiring my views “over canapés” in “Islington and Hampstead Garden Suburb”. As a peace-loving woman I told my computer to issue a siren alert if ever I got as far as “Dawk-”. It has failed. Here we go again: but this time in pure approbation.
We owe Professor Dawkins a debt of gratitude for the latest cultural can of worms he has prised open. Under the misleading headline in another newspaper of “Dawkins warns over ‘pernicious' fairy tales”, we learn that he is writing a book for children explaining how scientific thinking contrasts with myths, and that he plans to look at the effect of books and stories about spells and wizards. Look at the matter, please note: not condemn Harry Potter and Santa unheard. “I don't know what to think about magic and fairy tales,” he says thoughtfully. “It is anti-scientific - whether that has a pernicious effect, I don't know... many of the stories I read in childhood allowed the possibility of frogs turning into princes. Whether that has a sort of insidious effect on rationality, I'm not sure. Perhaps it's something for research.”
Excellent. He wants children to “look at evidence”, but is willing to do the same himself, and accepts that reading about frog princes didn't ruin his career as a biologist by making him spend fruitless decades in the lab, pointing wands at frogs.
When he does start on the literature of fairytales, scanning Bettelheim's The Uses of Enchantment, Otto Rank's study of hero myths, Buhler's analysis of the psychological connection between developing imagination and fairytales, Jockel on symbolism and the rest, he will look at their theories and case studies with scientific interest. Biologists and psychologists don't always get on all that well, but there is an intelligent literature on the subject, worth reading.
On the whole, serious students of child development conclude that far-fetched magical stories play an important part in the developing mental life of young children; and that normal children easily distinguish stories from reality. When, aged three, you talk to your teddybear, you do not really expect an answer. But it's still fun. When you tremble with fear at the wolf's approach, safe on your mother's lap, you are preparing yourself to face real fears and trials with calm. Healthy children enjoy sentences beginning “Let's pretend...”. Some of their pretences are bloodcurdling, but a normal child knows what's real. “Bang, you're dead,” said one of mine, adding “Not really dead, just bang dead.”
The questing scientist will learn still more by meeting actual children, parents, and children's authors such as Philip Pullman who - while famously tough on bossy clerics - values myth and fairytale highly and never hesitates to introduce an armoured polar-bear into his narrative. There are certainly a lot of cultural influences and interdicts tangled up in traditional myths and fairytales, and some are dated, sexist, cruelly moralistic or vengeful. But parents and societies can choose whichever magical tales suit their values. It is not the magic itself which does damage. And children - intensely attuned to the human need for comfort and fantasy - tend these things themselves. One boy of nine confided to his mother before Christmas that he had actually sussed Santa, “But I don't think Dad's quite ready to know that I know, so don't tell him.”
The reason I am delighted at Professor Dawkins' investigation, therefore, is that I am pretty sure his intelligence will bring him to the same conclusion as the psychologists: that a bit of magic and fantasy in childhood is useful and helps you to grapple with your fears about life, death, peril and chance. It may even (to be flippant for a moment) serve to keep future laymen's minds open to the more provable marvels of science. If you've played at invisible fairy-dust, you may have acquired the kind of counter-intuitive mental flexibility required to accept what goes on in the Large Hadron Collider.
The uses of enchantment and myth need to be reiterated and examined because there is a worrying modern tide of thought that says that children must be allowed only dull bald truth. One online essayist, typical of many, writes: “If I have children I shall spare them such nonsense. It's not just the happily ever after element that's damaging... we are civilised societies in a quest for advancements in science and technology. We need to eradicate superstitions. Children should learn that only through hard work, perseverance and patience do their dreams come true - not magic.”
I wouldn't hire her as a babysitter. Not if she can't understand that luck and chance exist as much as just deserts, and that the courage of the seventh son or the gentle powerlessness of Cinderella might inspire a child to effort and kindness rather more effectively than her dreary sermonising.
Others excoriate poor old Santa - ultimate symbol of a jokily benign universe - and worry that Harry Potter makes children believe in spells and hexes. Very patronising, that: especially when the same adults flock to films about James Bond, who never existed and whose faux-tech gadgets wouldn't work any better than a wand and broomstick. They probably also enjoy a rush of irrational pleasure when watching a really good close-up conjurer “doing” impossible things - pushing bottles through tables and cigarettes through coins. We know it's not real and yet we see it: thus we are temporarily released from the iron corset of reason, even as we laugh at ourselves for being fooled. Feels good.
Magic is useful. Myths are helpful, pointing at truths which are all the deeper for not being literal. Neither is a threat to scientific understanding. Let children cast off their clouds of glory at their own pace. In Christina Hardyment's history of childcare writing, Dream Babies, I found this marvellous line from a 1903 book on the nursery craze: “There are unhappy children who are studied all day long, who must perforce and in gangs shape something out of grey India rubber, and sit at a table to do it. What do they know, poor things, of the joys and terrors to be found in a dwarf-infested shrubbery, just at sunset, on a chill October day...?”
Libby Purves worked for some years for BBC Radio 4, as a reporter and a presenter on the Today programme and, since 1983, has presented Midweek. She joined The Times as a columnist in 1990. She received an OBE in 1999 for her services to journalism and was Columnist of the Year in the same year. In her spare time she writes bestselling novels. Her opinion column appears in the The Times on Mondays
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Richard, despite what his opponants claim, is not an ogre; it's never gona be the case that fantasy is bad, it's more a case of: Is it being used to undermine science and rationality or to reaffirm it through an alternate medium?
C.J. Wilton, Stoke,
A study on the effects of fairy tales on a child's thinking might be interesting, but I can't condone it's results being used to come up with a solution to the "problem" of kids' playing make-believe. Honestly, what goes next? All fiction? Music? Art? These inspire wonder & flights of fancy, too.
Jason, Wisconsin, USA
Drat, I was going to raise the Terry Pratchett factor but D.G. beat me to it. Anyone who doubts the valuable role fantasy and make belief play in helping us to get our heads around the modern world could do worse than read Pratchett's "The Science of Discworld" series. Besides, laughter is good 4u.
Oliver, Buenos Aires, Argentina
Three things: 1) imagination does not equal magic -- and a lot of magic-based fiction is anti-science; science fiction might be better. 2) The supposed psychologists mentioned are psychoanalists -- followers of pseudoscience; 3) children can't *always* tell truth from fiction -- fiction can mislead.
Bruce, London,
Fantasies are very useful e.g. "inches", "minutes", "humour", "beauty", and, one of my all-time favourites.. "IS" All of these exist in the mind and are of the mind. There is no evidence for any of the above,just an awful lot of agreement. Perhaps the good Professor just wants more agreement.
Dave, Bloomsbury, London, UK
Fairy tales are a good read. We int he sixties grew up reading these tales over and over again and my children read them as well. Story books are to be read and enjoyed, not for politicians or religious ministers to say they are good or bad. Will todays stories be read in thirty years time.
Mariam, Leicester, UK
If Dawkins weren't washed up he wouldn't waste his time on what he can't understand: that truth and fact aren't the same, that science cannot give us an order of VALUES that sometimes are expressed in fictional form. He is too literal-minded to understand not the facts but CONTENTS of experience.
pxfragonard, Toronto, Canada
science is too often shackled to a lab,an alternate reality of its own
And it tells about that worldview
Myth prepares us for the world out here, right now and with no time to "scientifically evaluate...." the world immediately here and now, and no manual came with it at your side when you woke
walt, seattle, usa
Stop telling children fairy tales and they will make their owns to explain things that have no explanation (that is, the most important things in our lives). We never stop creating myths, even the myth about reason explaining everything.
Francisco Ojeda, Córdoba, Argentina
There is no problem with imagination or myth per se. The problem arises when imagination becomes your reality. All religions have internal inconsistencies which are ignored. For example God's omnipotence and our free will. Religious leaders are not paid as storytellers but as arbiters of the truth
Bob Gibson, New York, USA
What's the article's point? Who disagrees with the proposition that wonderment and imagining are not critical to development? You are right that children can tell real from play, except when it is presented as fact - are you arguing god is not real but it's OK to believe because it is useful?
Stephen R, Belfast,
Dawkins should try "The New World of Mr Tompkins" by George Gamow
John Boone, Town,
Our scientific understanding is a metaphor for reality. It is a rigorous and well-tested metaphor, but it is not 'truth'. We cannot avoid thinking in stories.
Frank Upton, Solihull,
With as little evidence for religious fairytales, it's sad that grown ups have to resort to threats of eternal damnation to make the distinction between other stories and their religious fantasies.
Not really dead, just bang dead. demonstrates the innocence of children uncorrupted by dogma.
Dave, London, UK
What is important is that children be told what stories are fairy tales and what are true. They will then be in a better position to judge that a story of a man coming back from the dead (and lots more religious make believe) is a fairy tale.
John Sutton, Gravesend, United Kingdom
Father Christmas is so important because at some stage kids see through it and adults have to fess up. It's a huge achievement in the kid's development. Now if only someone would fess up about God perhaps we could all grow up.
John Ledbury, Kings Lynn, England
I agree entirely. Fairy tales are an important part of children's development, understanding and civilisation, whether they be the Big Bad Wolf, or a religion. The problems come when these training tools continue to be believed as 'Faith' through adult life.
Fred, London, UK
I suspect she is right, but that does not mean she is. What we want to be true, what we think is true, and what actually is true need not be the same thing. So I agree with Dawkins that it would be good to do research to settle the question either way.
Alan C, Liverpool,
Tales from my childhood still influence my thinking today. Like "The little Engine that could" - I do know trains aren't alive, and I did even then, but the concept "one person can make a difference if you just don't give up" has stuck with me all my life.
Dianne, Johannesburg, ZA
Perhaps Dawkins doesn't appreciate that kids can tell the difference between fact and fantasy, science and storytelling...
eric, paris,
A very well thought out article, Libby, with which I agree.
Terry Pratchett made pretty much the same point in his book The Hogfather where he says something to the effect that children need to believe in such things so that they can later believe in the other fantasies such as truth and justice.
David Garfield, London, UK
At least he will be talking about science. As an Oxford science student it's frustrating how little interest he seems to have in his chair here.
Thomas, Oxford,
If someone told Plato that one day, I would be referencing him through a magical web that works through the ether, he would scarcely have believed me any more than he would believe in Humpty Dumpty.
Progression is borne of imagination, and imagination is borne of fantasy. Let the kids dream!
Alex Taggart, Dalian, China
Oh please! Portrayal of women/girls in fairy tales is damaging? These things were written/created at times when women's roles were very different, children will learn, if they have parents to explain it, that today women's roles are different. Read them fairy tales, everyone needs a bit of escapism.
Helen, Sheffield, UK
Maybe Professor Dawkins is right. Maybe because as a child he could imagine a frog becoming a prince he can imagine now an ape becoming a man. Perhaps he should be more critical about that fairy tale of scientism.
Francisco Ojeda, Córdoba, Argentina
Look at the unhappy fate of poor Louisa Gradgrind in Dickens' "Hard Times". Nothing but rationality and truth for her during her childhoon. Dickens hit the nail on the head.
Gina, Cambridge, UK
Ask any psychoanalyst - fairytales represent potent archetypes within the mind & are extremely important in the inner life - incredibly rich in meaning. How else could they have survived, ever popular through the centuries? Always beware of those who would ban books! The last were the Nazis.
Barry, Shevington, UK
Richard Dawkins seems to be turning into a rather sad Mr Gradgrind who ruined his children's lives by insisting that they be taught nothing but "facts".
Has he not pondered the saying "Man does not live by bread alone"? or "We are such stuff as dreams are made on"?
jane, London,
The most damaging aspect of fairy tales is not the magic at all - it is the ridiculous portrayal of women/young girls. Whilst the men are dashing heroes who get to have all the fun, women are expected to do very little besides live with some ridiculous adjective of a name. The only women with any backbone are, of course, evil, childless - and therefore DANGEROUS - outsiders.
Exception is Pullman, but that's one of thousands.
Bianca Franqueira, Nottingham,
Good post,Milly!
Apart from the critics of Dr Dawkins,whose work I haven't read,I do agree with the author.Too many computers,too many classes,too much solitude for our childen.
tzvete, Saitama, Japan
I would advise Mr Dawkins to read Terry Pratchetts work, particularly "the Hogfather" which explores this theme very well, and with imagination and humor.
We need some magic in our lives even if we don't believe it, and children as they grow up are well able to deduce for themselves what is real.
Bob, Sittingbourne, UK
"and that normal children easily distinguish stories from reality."
Given Dawkins spends a lot of time dealing with adults who fail to make this distinction. Possibly the problem is that children come to believe what adults regard as "reality", rather than what the evidence suggests.
simon, Exeter,
This is fair comment Libby, but it does concern me that everything children learn today seems to involve magic - even in school, teaching apparently can no longer be done without magic hats and cute witches. Imagination is wonderful, but like honey, too much is neither pleasant nor useful.
Pedro Conejo, Puerto Cabras, Spain
Imagination is also important for engineering, you need to be able to produce a picture in your mind of what is happening or going wrong. You then test it to validate it and then try to imagine a solution. Anything which encourages the pictorial aspects of imagination is good.
Pete, Epping , UK
I remember when my sister and I were 5 and 6 - she would make up fairy stories to my story lines and specifications when we were tucked up in bed. I remember these times with great delight.
Harry, Bognor Regis,
I agree completely. For adults as well as children, fantasy is a way to explore the subconscious. It helps us to understand our fears and desires. Without fantasy it is easy for our desires to be lost under a pile of grey beliefs about what we think is attainable - but which may also be untrue.
Gideon, London, UK
It's good for kids to have their imagination stretched by fantasy or science fiction. Just so long as they don't start *resorting* to fiction to escape the world (i.e., religion). Is it really good for children forming their worldview to be told that "bad stuff doesn't really happen"?
Cai, Cambridge,
As a children's author I have to agree. Magic and make believe give children much needed hope and inspiration. Suzy Brownlee.
Suzy Brownlee, London, UK
Reason and imagination are not incompatible. The human mind can handle both - so why not encourage both?
Laura, London,
Perhaps the good Dr Dawkins can explain why so many scientists enjoy reading science fiction?
David, Dunedin, N>Z>
Too true!
Kids grow up fast enough these days as it is, and, I fear, are lacking something as a result.
Martyn Taylor, Swindon, England (wot's left of it!)
reson is never an iron corset. If you believe that, you are unable to reason. Reason is liberating.
m wilson, bidache, France
Let children have their childhood.
Fantasy is part of childhood and should not be taken away from children.
Real life comes soon enough and through fantasy children are introduced to this in a softer way.
Milly, Amsterdam, Netherlands