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From The Times

December 5, 2006

Unveiled: a very proper British debate

Are niqabs and hijabs just bits of cloth?

Libby Purves

I like public meetings. Thirty years ago in Britain it seemed axiomatic that mass media had killed them off, and that nobody would venture out on a foggy evening to sit on a hard chair when they could get ministers and stars piped to their living room. Henceforth, it seemed, public conversation would be conducted by an elite of professional controversialists, with token audiences of “ordinary” people.

Yet what is this? People still like to gather, breathe the same air as the speakers, put up their hand, observe them without a camera angle. The most unlikely entertainers fill theatres — Tony Benn, Alastair Campbell. Literary festivals and university debates flourish. We seem to love them. And I certainly don’t regret flogging out last Thursday to Mile End for “Dialogue with Islam”.

This is a freestanding body run by young Shahinoor Ali as “a bridge of understanding between Western intellectuals and the Muslim community in Britain . . . on identity, ethnicity, citizenship, belonging and otherness”. They have discussed the “War on Terror”, poverty, family values , bombers; it gets speakers like Malcolm Rifkind and Roger Mosey of BBC News, and Philip C. Bobbitt, the former US Director for Intelligence, wrote “the audience was the best part . . . some were hostile but by and large they seemed willing to listen to my answers patiently”.

I acted as chairman; the debate was on the veil, especially the full-face niqab, and Mr Bobbitt is right. The audience were the stars. I came away heartened, amused and fonder of my fellow citizens. I need to say this because a co-panellist, Deborah Orr, wrote in scornful terms of the evening, claiming that these were “a bunch of people who have nothing positive to say about Britain or its culture” and that she was “jeered ” for questioning the idea that Muslims are univerally demonised.

Me, I heard only a faint susurration of disagreement, but perhaps I get out more and thus have a higher threshold of jeer-awareness. It is true that she was the only panellist who opposed the full veil strongly on feminist grounds — the other non-Muslim was the sweet-natured editor of Vogue, whose stance was of affable curiosity. It is true that the two female Muslim intellectuals on the panel did go on rather about demonisation, foreign policy and racism. But the audience, from where I was sitting, were great: attentive, intelligent, ready to laugh.

Both communities clearly accepted Dialogue with Islam’s rule about tempering frankness with courtesy. A middle-aged white man blokeishly observed that whenever he saw a heavily veiled woman he felt insulted, as if all men were a sexual threat to anyone not bundled into invisibility. Muslims politely denied this, putting forward theological and historical reasons why some women choose the niqab over the simple headscarf (only two niqab-wearers in the audience, incidentally).

A Muslim husband said that his wife chose it, and this was fine by him but that the hijab — showing her face — would also be fine. Asked whether he would mind if she went without, he said it couldn’t arise. Why? “It would not be the will of Allah.” Some laughed, including bareheaded Muslim women. A French student said she was alarmed by women looking “like ghosts”. A lot of people said look, it’s just a bit of cloth, how can cloth matter? (A brave thing to say with the editor of Vogue in the room.)

I liked best the moments when the dialogue was an exchange of emotion, an admission of feelings. It was good to have the student speaking of “ghosts”, and good to have women who had worn the niqab saying it made them feel not only more devout but more private, especially in times of divorce or bereavement. I admitted a moment of discomfort myself: on the way in, crossing the Mile End Road and finding myself face to face with a full black veil, as we jinked from side to side to avoid collision, I gave the usual smilingly embarrassed grimace, yet her invisibility denied me any answering smile. When I said this, a cheerful bearded man in the audience whose wife wears one said: “You should have greeted her. She can speak, you know!’ We agreed that next time I meet a niqab-wearer in the street I will say “Good morning!” and expect a response.

Exchanging feelings and fears openly is useful. When someone said that the full veil made them fear an enemy underneath, it was pointed out that the London Tube bombers were undisguised men. When a speaker said suspicion of Muslims was all the Government’s fault, the guilt of killers who use Islam was pointed out equally firmly.

The extreme immodesty of some Western women was criticised, but the last word went to a girl in a hijab who said that she personally doesn’t judge anyone by their looks, and that when she sees a bottle-blonde Westerner with skimpy clothes she wouldn’t dream of calling her a bimbo, and expects not to be judged herself. A Muslim panellist muttered “Well, I can judge Pamela Anderson”, so I took the chair’s privilege of saying no, she couldn’t. Not on appearance, anyway. The meeting broke up in good spirits, and spilt its cheerfulness out into the streets.

We need such events. The real issues are war, justice, poverty, and terrorism — not cloth. Yet in a survey one third of UK respondents want the face veil to be illegal, even outside workplaces. The Dutch are planning a ban. In Italy a right-wing MP who opposed it is under police protection. Even hijabs are banned in French schools. And the more bans, the more women will feel defiant, in much the same way that I found myself rummaging for a long-unworn cross after the prissy British Airways and newsreader bans.

But that night we were all trying to live and let live. It was very British. It was actually fun.

My profession as a pilot has led me to work in many countries over the last few years. Where the muslim countries were concerned, I could not even enter the country unless there was a vacancy for me that could not be filled by one of their nationals. Once resident in that country, I had to respect their culture and life style, which was not a problem for me. Working with other expats and nationals, we all got on well, and showed mutual respect for each other, our religions, and lifestyles. During Ramadan, the muslims observed their rules, and we used discretion when eating and drinking. Life was good. What I fail to understand, is why Muslims in UK find it so difficult to respect the British way of life, which after all, is what they or their parents came here for. The old adage of "When in Rome ...." stands good today as ever.

Deltaman, Durham, UK

We should all respect other people's cultures. But then, why is it that a British woman visiting an Islam majority country (think Camilla in her recent visit) be asked to respect their religion and asked to don a headscarf? And yet a Islamic woman in a Christian majority country like Britain, is free to wear the veil and the British has to again respect their wishes? The same courtesy/respect/tolerance is not extended in their home country. It is against the British culture to demean women something which the suffragettes fought for, be it the vote, pay or to wear trousers. So, in a fair world, muslim women need to take off their veil when in their host country.

Nightshade, Bristol, Bristol

elo..i wud just want ppl to realise that racism can be from both sides.if u british showed racism to any ethnic or any other religion, then hw can u expect that these ppl will respect u or ur religion?Come on, grow up man!we r all contributing in this country.if u gona think only of ppl from ur religion,ur race, then u r not better than those cruel and insane dictators like Hitler etc!some of u are comparing UK wiz Saudi Arabia..In SA there is no election,fings like that.UK laws are not according to the bible,rit?wud be wise to compare alike things,na?so wats the fuss is all about?live and let live.why so much hatred for muslims?not all muslims are terrorist!!if4no reasons some ppl show hatred to u,its logical that this gona b reciprocal.i fink this wud encourage ppl to join the group millitating against that so proud christian country of urs.so stop these bashing and stop being racist.try to get to interact wiz ppl without any prejudice.

Fankwi Ko Cheung, Phoenix,

Recently I visited my daughter who lives in a flat in E1. As I entered the block two Muslim ladies wearing hijabs were coming out. I held the door for them and greeted them with "salaam Alleikum" (the peace of God be with you) and received a smile, a "thank you" and "Alleikum salaam" in return. I showed them respect, they showed me respect and we each went on our way with a smile. More smiles and fewer scowls might make life better for everyone and lead to far less hostility and Islamophobia.
In my last office, when we had a Muslim year-out student working with us, none of us ate or drank in front of him during Ramadan - it's just not fair. When we all went to the pub he had non-alcoholic drinks and no-one chaffed him or thought less of him for doing so and he accepted us drinking alcohol. Mutual tolerance and respect and everyone benefits.

Michael Ney, Guildford, UK

Perhaps the best way to combat the international Jiihad would be to reestablish the Crusade. Only fair that Christians have their say in this 'DEMOCRATIC' World we live in.

And should not the residents of a country swear an oath of allegence to it (They do in America and Australia) which overrides religious bigotry. Then perhaps if they wish not too they should move to a country where they feel they can.

D. Marcos, Bradford, Uk

I have recently moved to Bradford from Wakefield, a distance of only 25 miles but in some ways culturally a much greater distance.
I must confess that I feel unhappy with myself because I believe in equality and detest predjudice and yet I sometimes feel uncomfortable in the presence of so many ethnic and ethnically robed people.
I found a recent antidote to this on visiting my local medical center, populated predominantly by Asian men and women, with several women dressed in Niqabs. As I entered, two ladies dressed in Niqabs were leaving; natural courtesy caused me to stand aside and hold the door open for them, upon which one of the two said in a very clear English accent "cheers". This one simple, colloquial, comunication made me realise that behind the mask was simply another person. I believe and hope that my earlier anxiety was probably caused by unconscious xenophobia rather than closet racism.

C Summerskill, Bradford, West Yorkshire UK

Thank you for an interesting article. We should all foster religious telerance and understanding.

The argument are niqabs and hijabs bits of cloth? i would say NO, the people who choose to wear it for them it is much more. It is about their right to choose, it is about their religious freedom, it is about their identity. The ideas should we Ban etc are ridiculous because then we are bordering on priciples of Totalitarianism. There is this invisible threat the government is portraying of Islam as the enemy, when it isn't Islam that is the enemy.

Zidane, london, UK

Arrogance breeds ignorance.Thats the real problem.Parents are supposed to "teach"their children.How can they,if they dont/cant/wont understand the muslim culture.,or any other culture for that matter.People should addapt etc.Have an "orthodox"muslim,rabbi,priest ,hari krishna,rastaferian etc. explain their religion+culture within schools fine..But the parents are breeding the discontent.,ignorance,intolerence from the home,so why expect the children to be any different on the street..A new generation is growing up.A bad seed has been planted like aids.What will the next generation be like,better?worse?.Or is the next generation going to be the last one of discontent and resentment.We dont talk about the Welsh,Scottish,Irish in the same way.Our culture does not conflict with theirs.Why build a church etc in a muslim country.,it would remain empty,like ours do in the UK.We should point a finger at ourselves,but nobody is prepared/willing to reach out and honestly try.The bad seed is growing

S.Lerman, Bradford, uk

To Janette and others who share the view of 'if you come to the UK you should abide by our religions/rules'. I am British and certainly do not abide by the religions of the UK and am quite opposed to some of the daft rules, and I'm quite incensed by Janette's assumption that I should. I think it is only the very narrow minded that think that the UK is 'theirs', and that immigrants should abide by 'their' rules. Get a grip people, I can point my finger at more badly behaved/criminal/yobbish/dangerous white guys, than I can at their equivalents in the ethnic minorites. All communities have the 5% or so that cause trouble, don't tar all foreigners by their behaviour, or you will have to tar all Brits by our 5% of scum.

Richard, Oxford, UK

to each their own? probably, however we are trying to make britain a place of anti racism. we teach our children to accept difference, respect it, even celebrate it. who teachers the visitor from another country to treat us with dignity and respect?. the government is spending millions teaching foreign visitors to speak english. which other government in the world does that?. if we visit your country we are required(often by law) to follow your rules and respect your religion/ culture. all we ask is that they do the same.

by all means build a mosque in our town centre's but do not stop us from building a church in yours. Wear what you want, after all do we stop the goths and punks to name a few from wearing what they like?. not all punk's take drugs and beat people up, not all goths contemplate their own death, not all people who wear the veil are connected to suicide bombers. live and let live, but equally and fairly.

tj, edinburgh,

go back to there country ,if they want to ear them , go to the mother country, if i was in saudi i could not preach my religion , this country is to soft , never mind there rights , what about english rights,if england is so bad leave, 20 years ago ,we had not heard of this, we were fighting the ira, where were muslims then , go back ......................

john english, london,

If you live in this country you live like any normal british citizen why should you be any different to me. If you dont like it then get the hell out?

Terri, Birmingham,

Isnt UK a multicultural country leave them alone they have their beliefs you have yours

ismaiil, london, uk

A very nice article. What a difference it makes just to read something positive for a change, and for it to be on TIMESONLINE even more so. I wouldn’t have read it if it wasn't for the advert on MSN. One I’ll be forwarding on to my fellow Muslims.

I only hope for more interaction, and from someone who lives to do this, non-Muslims also make it very hard. I try, and will continue to try. Such positive reading makes all these attempts worth while and cover all the hurtful abuse thrown at us.....especially when all you want is peace. It’s not fair to assume we don’t want to interact, how many of you actually even want to interact. I can factually tell you, it’s a two way streak and neither side makes it easy.

We're all humans.

Mun, Sheboygan,

The veil is not a REQUIREMENT of Islam....have you heard of facts? then get them rght.

I live in Saudi Arabia at this time and I am not able to go the Church on Sunday mornings (it is banned here) I respect their way of live and laws and do not expect them to change for my religion.

The UK is not a muslim country...never was.

To the men of the wives who want to wear the veil..when one is accustomed to something they know no different.

Kate, AL khobar, Saudi Arabia

My experience and opinion is all I share. There is inequality of treatment across our country. As a white British subject I hear my peers in colour making comments that are at best introspective and unhelpful. At worst they are racist. To deal with this we have a duty to educate our children; fear grows in ignorance. Freedom of dress is as important as the total freedom of speech. Discuss issues of each but do not ban them. Fear stops communication and I do not blame those Muslim women I have met who choose to ignore a 'Hello'. I have observed my peers expressing hurtful comments on mobile telephony in the street that would push me into the depths of introversion. I encourage all people to stop their focus on others looking for blame and truly examine what goes on within themselves. The human being is clever at self delusion; specifically I kept a food diary and I was so shocked at the true amount I can eat. Without awareness of the power of self delusion we can never be totally honest.

Graham Ledger, Cheltenham, Gloucestershire

I am a White female, born and raised in Britain. I respect peoples religion and beliefs to a certain extent.

I do not agree to the full veil being worn in this country. In my opinion, if you move to the UK, you abide by the UK peoples religions.

When we travel abroad, we abide by the rules of that Country you are visiting out of sheer RESPECT for the people of that country as we do not like to offend in any way!

I think others should take time out to think about that and to remember nowadays, the UK now has a minority of White people and the moajority being of an ethnic race.

Janette, Liverpool, UK

I have to say to derek that maybe it should at some stage in his life occur to him that it is quite obviuous in view of the multitude of deities and religions trhoughout history that things are indeed neither black nor white. one man's /woman's truth is anotrher one's falsehood. live with it!
the veil : How would you MEN feel if you lived in matriarchy and if women compelled YOU to cover you faces as not to incite their lust?

it ever occured to you you might find it a tad uncomforable and restraining and hot 9in summer ) and that maybe especially when it is ENFORCED..as in Iran where a woman is only considered half the worth of a man, just maybe it does denote your status as one of somebody else's possesion rather than as free individual.

Harriet leeck, Dublin , Ireland

To Richard, Harwich and others you follow the same veiw

To me your observation is not looking wide enough. The point you are making is agreeable to an extent. However there is also security measures and in extreme cases, a female worker can ask the women in the veil to proove her identity. The supposidly "threat" as you may see it is sorted. The veil is a practice of the religion for the women, how would all the other religions like it if the sikhs where told to cut their hair, or the christians to stop going church, or the jews to dress differntly. Why should'nt any one be alowd to practice their religion freely witout being looked upon as differnt and critizied for it?

Naveed, London, UK

I dont get it, who is more threatening at the moment, a woman with a veil or a teenage gang with guns hunting down our young ones in the streets. It is true this country is dominated by the existance of the christian white majority, but should everyone in this country be born white and also would they have to be christian, do we all have to wear a suit so we can be pleased with the community??.

I don't like the look of the veil but is that a reason that i should impose my believes into someone. OKAY we heard if you're in Rome dress up like a Roman, but following this path will altre your identity and hence if all food was sweet we'll get sick.

Talking about terrorism, would removing the veil deny the bomber from reaching the innocent lives, we are a very easy to target people we can get caught anywhere and its this idiology of mass killing we should be getting rid off now, I don't see how the veils are related to this topic.

Eddie, london, England

When was the last time a "White" person blew himself / herself up deliberately to terrorise innocent commuters.

Ban the veil, it does not belong in the UK, if the veil wearers don't like that, the can always move over here.

B Wilson, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

As a male, I am not allowed into a bank, Post Office, petrol station or many other places wearing a crash helmet, balaclava or "hoodie" top.
As a male, I could wear a full veil outfit to rob any of these places, under the guise of being a woman, what price security cameras then?
Just an observation.

Richard, Harwich, UK

The real issues about UK and its society is not really about a veil. Whether we agree with the Muslim ideology about veil's is only scratching at the surface of what is wrong with Britian. UK became Great because it had a clear Christian identity and we were not ashamed to carry that identity throughout the world. Today our politions have left our judea/ christian roots behind us passing laws that tear he ancient truths of the 10 Commandment in shreads. If we have no foundation to build upon how can society know the clear defination of right or wrong. I could not blame Muslim society trying to protect itself from our corrosive Western culture which has lost any sence of what is right or wrong. The laws that are passed today are tainted Grey rather than the clear black and white. In our so called search for freedom we have forgotten the ancient bouudaries that kept our society safe and secure. Islam is only an indicator that the Christian Church has left its first love.

Derek Follis, Enniskillen, Fermanagh

It is not just a piece of cloth because it being used as a political tool for radical Islamists to further their cause

J HAWES, OXFORD,

In my opinion, it is a person's right to where what they want to wear and and whatever colour they like. I disagee with Annette from Durham with reference to 'I don't understand why it should be black', referring to the colour of a veil. I think that you contradict yourself by being open minded on one hand about a full veil being worn, but on the other hand dictating that the veil should not be black.

I think that public meetings is definitely a way forward into bringing communities, especially those with a cross section of culture etc. together. Libby Purves herself has first hand experience of the positive feedback that can come from such meetings. Of course, this action requires respect from each ethnic community in order for each person to put the point across and not be shouted at. But at least keeping communication open is a way forward.

Anita, Norwich, Norfolk

dear derek from leeds the world has moved on and so should you or you will spend the rest of your life as a very unhappy man we are enriched by the different cultures in our society today in all its forms by the way the government in your day (mine as well i hasten to add) also included english in it compulsory school curriculum including spelling somthing you have chosen to overlook

shan, london, uk

to glen bury...you have it right. if i was in a different country i would abide by their way of living.if i got on a train or bus in this countryand there was a person in a full veil i would be frightened as we all need to see the faces of people. it could be a man .please lets get some common sense in the equation..if in rome do as the romans do.. i am a sensible woman but i am not happy about letting other faiths dictate to us...i am a cristian but have no qualms about other faiths ...just remember where you are living and if you dont like it go to a country that you are happy with.. but leave us to live the way we believe.. carol from grimsby.

carol , grimsby, uk

Most people are ignorant to what a veil is for. I am a staff nurse working in Coventry and I remove my veil at work. Alot of muslim women assume me to be a hyppcrite as I should wear the veil at all times. It is personal choice at the end of the day. I get people staring and making rude comments. Be sure I always inform people I have a mouth under my veil and many times have I freely used it!!!!

parveen mohammed, coventry, u.k.

england is goihg soft,i was born here in 1941 this is my country.When other religions came into our country they had do as the goverment said.If i walked around with a balaclava covering most off my face i would be arrested,ive been told by a Muslim friend that there is nothing in the karan that says the females should wear this over there face,its the muslim women who want to wear it.I believe it sould be BANNED,The FRENCH have the rigth idea and so it seem so do other countriesI dont like it i feal intimidated.with there eyes looking at me.Everyone who comes to this country or who is born heer should abide my our rules.As we have to do when we go to ther'se.

Derek, Leeds, yorkshire

Someone mention they left the country to enjoy their new country ? A lot of them were actually born in britian so they did NOT leave from another country.

Ignorance is one thing white british people need to get rid of. Someone may look indian but that doesn't mean they are. I've seen "normal" white people walk across streets away from non veiled brown skinned people and on the other side of the road were hoodies and chavs who apparently these people were supposed to be scared of. So now who's got a problem ?

Jag, Cardiff,

As regards to the statement by Glen from Bury, the vast majority of 'these people' are born and brought up in Great Britain. People need to also remember that it is possible to be British and be 'a religious'. Whether you like it or not Chrisitanity has had a huge influence on Britain, and If you research Islam you will find that there are many similarities between the religions.

This country is very proud of the freedom it allows its citizens, so surely isnt this whole arguement about women wearing a hijab or niqab more anti-british then the choice these women make? surely its their choice to wear what they want? and wrong for anyone to ban them or force them not to wear one. Ive always had the belief that as long as it isnt forced onto others, a Briton has the freedom to do as they wish, this whole concept of banning the hijab or niqab is very disappointing to see, as if implemented it would do more harm to eradicating britishness then choice these women make!

Mohammed, Birmingham, England

the sad thing is , these people choose to leave their country behind for what ever reason but refuse to intergrate within the cultures and society of their new country and environment. if these cultures were so important to have to bring them with them and force their host societies to uphold their way of life in a host country, why then did they leave to begin with. when i lived in a different country i always do the right thing and changed my ways to respect f the host country,as i am the guest.i did not and would not try to change the host society and feel that i had every right to change them. its disrespect to build mosques and force our schools to accept anything less than the christian way. i would boycott any school who had some teacher wearing a sheet over their face.

glenn, bury, england

As the father of a daughter married to a muslim and living in the middle east I feel I must say something now . All of the people in the UK who claim to be insecure when they are faced with a lady wearing a veil need to give themselves a serious reality check. If they were to visit the middle eastern countries and actually understand the culture very few of these people would complain again. Women are treated far better by the majority of their husbands in the more civilized countries of the region and it is a complete joke to believe that they are forced by their husbands to wear a veil. The majority of women choose to wear it due to believing that their husband is the only man who should see their naked skin. If more british women took more pride in their appearance instead of lying on a Spanish beach showing their naked breasts to all around then possibly our standards would be raised. Its degrading to be honest. Lets be honest some brits are slobs and always will be.

edward, AYR, Scotland

I am English, I lived in Germany for many years and yes I do speak and understand German. That said, it makes no sense to me to be critical of anothers mode of dress. What I don't on the otherhand agree with is when a person born in England becomes a religious being instead of English which is what this young lady is. I also understand why she wants to wear her religious dress mode, I don't understand why it should be black. I look in Pakistan where many of the people are muslims but the ladies are dressed in the most glorious colours and look quite beautiful. I think yes you can have your religion but remember you are English and stop trying to have double standards by running England down. Enjoy and embrace this beautiful country and learn to live at peace with it and yourself.

Annette , Durham, United Kingdom

Your article was very well written, without bias or judgement. As a white, Chrisitan, woman I do not have a problem with Muslim women wearing the Niqab other than that I believe it inhibts inclusion and seems only to be divisive. My real concern is with the overt criticism these women make about Western women and their behaviour. Britain is a country proud of our ability, on the whole, to welcome all races and religions and therefore such criticism of how we choose to live our lives is insulting in the extreme.

Emma, Solihull,

I personally find the fully veiled face quite threatening. I like to be able to read peoples expressions, the face can be very revealing in the terms of truth etc. My husband recently went on a works training course and there was a woman there in the full regalia he said she was very intelligent, eloquent, witty with beautiful eyes and by the way had the most amazingly long scarlet nails. He also said he found it quite disturbing that apart from 'group work' she distanced herself rom the other participants. How confused must this poor woman be if she feels she cannot integrate with non muslims outside of the work place but yet have a fantastic manicure!

diane bunce, newton abbot, uk

We all have our beliefs but the rest of us abide by rules, so should be for Muslim individuals too.
On the subject of language (Re; Melanie in Reading) English was always, and as far as we are still aware, the International language....one that all countries apparently speak?

Mari, Dorset,

I worked for 5 years in Saudi Arabia ,and on one occaision whilst travelling with a Muslim Colleague i walked into our shared accommodation as he was mid way though prayer.
The impact this had on me was profound and on returning to the UK i rejoined the Catholic Church.

At that moment when my colleague was on his knees praying i realised the humbleness and his connection with a God of his understanding.

The freedom that we are afforded in this Country (England ) is something to be savoured.
The issue over the Veil is one of Choice(or is it ?) in England,unlike Saudi Arabia where it was a given.
If the muslim women in our Country can demonstrate that they respect their Customs and Religious beliefs and recognise that theirs is a choice denied to others then we can all move forward.
Freedom comes from within we are all of one in the eyes of God ,how we manifest this, is with us and our maker.

Stewart Marlow, Orpington,

I am always interested by comments about wearing the clothes of this country and learning the language, when have English people ever done that when they settle in other countries? When many English people lived in India did they wear shalwar khameez and speak Urdu? How many English people live in Spain and don't speak the language? I am English born but I am a Muslim, I wear a long coat and scarf because that is what I want to wear and I do not criticise anyone else for their choice of apparel; even if I am disgusted by fat bellies hanging out over shorts in the summer, that is their choice (though I sometimes wonder if they have mirrors in the house).

Melanie, Reading,

why should there be a problem with muslim women wearing a face veil for security?

if the police need to carry out an investigation then they should get female officers to ask them to show their face.

this is seen by many in the muslim community as a form of bullying against a part of their honour.

abid hussain, Sydenham/london, UK

I agree with Jean M. Turner that we have our values and they are being eroded by the politics of tolerance. Only recently I heard an Asian lady say that "We in Britain must do something to halt arranged marriages". Well, we in Britain do not, nor never have had "arranged marriages", they have been introduced by another culture, so why should we be responsible for eradicating that which we did not instill? The only way to halt "arranged marriages" is to halt it from its source. I have never been a racsist, nor do ever intend to be, but when it is thrown at me by the media every day it is difficult to ignore the fact that this is a very small island and it is being swamped by infiltrating and demanding religious bodies to the extent of strangulation. Please stop all this so we can become what we were in the past ...... British.

William Armour, Glasgow, South Lanarkshire

To say that all Muslim countries are intolerant to Western traditions is incorrect. I have lived and visited a number of Islamic countries (Dubai, Oman, Bahrain, Qatar, Bangladesh, Malaysia, Tunisia, Morocco, Egypy, Gambia) and I found the people there to be quite liberal so long as they do not contradict fundamental Muslim values. I have definitely seen people walking in the souks (market) wearing Western clothes so why this fuss?

I think that the Western countries are trying to impose their values as they have been for years but now excessively on others and anybody who opposes them becomes a "terrorist". I think that the West is more intolerant towards other cultures than muslims are towards others. Very sad but true.

Kabir, Chowdhury, Bangladesh

My view is simple, when a criminal wears this to escape justice, as recently reported in the news, how can it's use be justifiable. Should we as a society allow people in disguise (for whatever reason) to walk among us? There is an old saying " When in Rome do as the Romans do" should we not apply this, & ask that anyone living here abides by our dress code & speaks our language?
Any one becoming a citizen of this country expecting the state to provide for them, in terms of health care & benefits should be expected at the least to dress in an undisguised manner & have learned at least the rudiments of our language. These should be the minimum requirements for residency & strictly adhered to, the students comments re ghosts walking around our society was a fair one, I for one would like to see peoples faces!!

J Atkinson, Yeovil, Somerset

I can never understand how people can use the lack of tolerance in other 'Muslim' countries to support the use of a similar approach here. Surely we can pick better pages to take out of their books? Or would we like to be exactly like these non-tolerant countries in every way? I think not.
Remember, two wrongs do not make a right.

We need to encourage other Muslim countries to be more tolerant of western cultures and values. Following their backward approach is not the way to achieve this. However, showing our tolerance towards other cultures and values is.

For those who find the veil insulting or offensive, I ask what you see when you see a Nun covered from head to toe? She is probably praised for devoting herself to her religion, which is a good thing. Or maybe you don't look twice. But do you find her insulting? Offensive? Definately not.

It's just clothes.

Great article by the way.

Mohammed D, Birmingham,

I believe in religious tolerance for all. However, it concerns me that we are expected to make all the moves when it comes to tolerance within our own country - but Islamic countries will not and do not tolerate the needs of Western traditions of those who visit their countries. This in itself builds mistrust as it is a double standard. I would like to see public debates all over the country, by doing this it would support understanding and tolerance and hopefully bridge the gap

Charlie, South Wales,

Are they removed for passport photos?

Bill Brooks, Luton, UK

In response to Samia's comment, sister, it is Allah who defines extremism and Allah who defines modesty, not any of His creation. 'Modest English dress' does not fulfil the requirements of Hijab. Allah has told the women to wear the headscarf and the Jilbab (long barrel shaped dress) and this is better for us and we, as Muslims, submit to this willingly.

"It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed in a plain error."

Regarding the Niqab, generally speaking, it may not be obligatory however can one deny that if it helps a woman to achieve a certain closeness with Allah, she is at liberty to put it on? Can one deny that striving in matters of Islam is recommended so as to achieve a high status with Allah?

Bint, Unmentioned,

hello,

i am extremely impressed with your article & i shall be following your future articles closely.
i myself believe that hijabs/niqabs are not a compulsory part of islam, as long as they are modestly dressed thats what counts.i have total respect for women who wear it for 'themselves' & it does make me view the woman differently and makes me more respectfull to her if she has one on.
its not so long ago that the majority of english women also used to dress modestly & cover there heads........no?

thanx & sorry if my grammer is poor.

EHAN, manchetser,

I liked this article, well balanced and definately a 'very proper British debate'. Remember we live in a free society and Britain is a multicultural society. We have inherited different rich and vibrant cultures from all over the world. That is the way forward to a broad minded, all inclusive and equal society. As soon as we start restricting one particular ethnic group, we are destroying those elements of freedom that makes Britain such a unique and shining example for other countries to follow.

P.S Maybe we could get the vogue guy to create some designer nikab's with a permanent smile printed on it! then again maybe not!

Mark, Newcastle, England

I am a muslim woman and i wear the head scarf with (modest) english clothes and i feel i am fulfilling my religous obligations and that i am best able to express who i am, a british muslim. However i have no idea why women choose to cover their whole faces. no where in islam does it say you must cover your face infact women are not allowed to cover their faces whilst performing the Hajj & Umra. islam also states very clearly "do not alianate yourselfs, for yoy are the ambassadors of your religion"
there is no need to go to such extremes, is all i'm saying.

saima, birmingham, england

I have one epistle of mine that a man wearing a motorbike helmet walking in the street, he caught by police officer and questioned.why you're wearing a helmet without a motorbike?funny ain't it....

jam, chesterfield, u.k.

Britain has a society based on Christian Values and Christian heritage. This influence has moulded the fabric of our society and our laws over the centuries. To deny it is to deny our British Birthright. Those who choose to come here expect Britain to nurture them and protect them. In return we must expect their uncompromising acceptance of our traditions, language and culture. Why should we as the host country compromise our Britishness for other values which belong in other countries? I have no objection to any discreet religious costume or dress in principle but I do object if it causes public problems.

Jean M Turner, Kingsbridge, UK

I totally agree with Anthony, D J Burnley and Nora.
If they wish to come to this country, then they should respect our rules and culture, the same as we have to respect theirs when in their countries.
I'm afraid Diaz, that with attitudes such as yours there can be no tolerance, you say intolerant to other cultures, I assume that means that you are intolerant to English culture?

Norm Boskett, Plymouth, UK

We rightly promote tolerance, but alas D J Burnley is right. Where is the tolerance of western customs in Islamic ountries? Tolerance is not tolerance when it is one sided. And man, as an animal, is as programmed to read body language and the expressions of the face as much as to hear the spoken word. When communication of such a fundamental nature is denied by one side only, it is easy for misunderstanding to arise. And when it does the uncovered westerner feels defensive and at a disadvantage because he/she had no opportunity to read all the unsaid features of communication that are inherent when people, or animals meet. Sometimes sadness or vulnerability are more visible on a face than in the spoken word. Likewise aggression or suspicion. If people choose to be covered they must make a special effort to understand the feelings they can create, whether or not they approve or agree with them, just as we must try to understand them. When people meet what they say is only part of the communication, and how they look and act is another part.

richard, London, UK

I think we as British citizens, should support these women who chose to wear a niqab. This is because individualism and freedom of expression is a part of our British culture. By as chosing to band the niqab is just showing women who wear niqab and other minorites that we are intolerant of other cultures.
With reagards to Anthony from Birmingham remember that there are white women who are MUSLIM just like my best friend, who also wears a niqab. According to her it makes herfeel less insecure. This is because "before women and men used to judge me on my looks, and they would laugh at me because i was ugly but now im judged on my intellect and knowledge rather than what my curves are like, or how much cleavage im showing!! "

Diaz, London, England

I am a white english national. I believe that people who come to our country should be welcome here. I have no prejudice against relidion skin colour or country of origin. However people who come to our country should play by out rules. Obey our laws our way of life and respect our culture. Our culture and way of life is being destroyed by the influx of people from around the globe. When i go into the city centre now i feel intimidated by the many people with masked faces talking in other languages. It makes me feel like the outsider in my own country. I agree with Nora, people are welcome in this country so long as they live by out rules.

Anthony, Birmingham,

When Muslims let me live as I want in their countries then...............

D J Burnley, Scarborough, England

I will not recognise or greet anyone who wishes to remain hidden from me, after all it is their choice to hide behind a veil, so I'll respect there wishes and do my level best to ignore them.

David, Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire

There is a definate difference between the hijab and the facial veil. Culturally, we have been used to people wearing various items on their heads, both for religious, practical and fashion purposes. What does a veiled face mean to a British person? Traditionally it has meant the terrorist covering of the IRA, the criminal covering of the masked robber (and of course in folklore, the highwayman. The KKK also covered in a similar way, as have more recently Islamic terrorists. Should we be surprised that masking the face evokes fear and suspicion, given the impact of all these influences upon our cultural psyche? Ladies who are heavily covered, do need to be aware of the emotions they are invoking, in the same way as a skinhead or punk may have done so in time past. Nevertheless, we do not need an outright ban, but a pragmatic approach - in certain workplaces & vocations communication and trust are vital and the white British have a cultural need to see the whole face, as do lipreaders.

Ruth, Leicestershire, UK

"Jai" from "Kent"...Well said. I admire you. You're young and smart.

I'm a 23 year old Muslim girl and I'm definitely hating these topics that are always blown out of proportion. Our religion tells us to cover up (some choose to do it, some don't), we're not harming anyone by covering up our hair or by wearing veils. If I'm walking down the street and a see a non-muslim woman almost naked, I don't judge her, I don't look at her like she's a tourist attraction. So let women that wear the hijab and veils be. I don't understand why people feel insecure around them. I wouldn't feel insecure around, say a Bishop. I wouldn't mind having a conversation with him. We're all human, we all have feelings. But we have to be rational and open-minded.

Noosa, Khartoum, Sudan

As the saying goes when in Rome do what the romans do! I think everyone who lives in our country should live the way we do the same goes to us if we move to a muslim country we would have to live the way we do.

Nora, uk,

If you ban the hijab, what do you do about the way nuns dress..........must they also conform the the majority ?

john metcalfe, wisbech, Cambs, UK

I am a muslim women and wear a hijab (not the veil) and Ihave to agree with the comment that when one sees a woman in a hijab she should be approached and given a greeting.
But what I am saying now is to the muslim women in veil that you should respond. I mean does wearing a hijab or veil mean you are restricted to interact with others? I say not (but please correct me if I am wrong). Talking, interacting with others would only create and portray the true meaning of our religion and not that our religion hold constraint, barriers, compellment.

Nagina Kauser, Birmingham, United Kingdom

yeah hi,erm you wear a ski mask in the street to keep warm and see what reaction you get....you would be suspicious to the police,so they should take the burka"s off too..!!

mick stone, halifax, west yorks

Well wow, that was a great view, and thank you for posting this up for many a confused woman. Religion is our own and when communication is tested, surely we are a civilised enough community to overcome these with words rather than a ban on freedom of dress.

Jasmine, Glasgow, Scotland

Why, knowing you would be unable to see her facial expressions, can we not expect the veil-wearer to speak first?

Kate Calvert, Beverley, East Yorkshire

Thankyou, I live in mid Wales and I went to Cardiff where I saw lots of women wearing Burkhas I smile at everyone and didn't get an answering smile. So in future I shall speak a greeting and hopefully I will hear a greeting in return.

tina, machynlleth, wales

When questioned most people will say Niqab, Burka etc present security problem. I agree with that. But do'nt Hallowein masks present security problems too? Is it that nobody has said anything about it because we can afford a day or two of bombings and carnage?

Come on be real. Your Islamophobia is showing and overflowing.

Mohammed Shuaib Sheikh, London, UK

The veil???? There are many complainrs about 'Hoodies' In my humble opinion veils can not only hide identity but can even hide sex. If people live in this couintry they should accept our ways

John Doe, Yeovil, Somerset

I cannot believe what I'm reading and seeing these days. I'm 19 years old and I've never heard a specific group of people being debated about so much, in my entire 19 years of living! Some Muslim women choose to wear hijabs, niqabs, burkhas- whatever; others do not. Women have been wearing them for years. Its nothing new. Its not about terror, its not about oppression- its clothing. I'm not a muslim woman but I don't think there's anything wrong with a woman trying to be respectable and dignified whilst upholding what she personally believes are cultural and religious values, in an increasingly immoral society. There are far more important issues the world should be talking about such as poverty, racism,disease.
Get Over It.

Jai , Kent,

i respect the cultural differences that come with religion, but i think that muslim children should not be allowed to wear the veil in schools. Britain is not an Islamic state unlike Pakistan etc and so therefore muslims should not expect the British government to start providing islamic provisions when it was their own choice to move here.

Paul, Stoke, UK

I agree to every one to their own believes and should have the right to live in a democratic society we can all live together with respect trouble is the extremists dont appear to take the same view all the want is world domination for ala hope I spelt this right what a shame wont happen

eamon, glos, england

Its amazing to me that since 9/11 we feel we can judge a religion based on the media..when we would not dream of imposing these views on one of the other religions in our country, such as catholic or christian nuns who also wear a religious headress. We would find it totally unacceptable to hear that a nun was abused in public for wearing her headcovering, when we we have become desensitised to hearing about muslim women being criticised and abused for making the same choices. Maybe we should be challenging our own perceptions not other peoples choices of dress.
As a SGI buddhist we believe peoples differences are there to be embraced and communication and mutual respect for each others beliefs is the key to a harmonious society not what you wear.

Rachel Anthony, Bristol, UK

i personally don't find it intimidating at all,if i see someone fully covered, ! i respect that , i'd rather see a fully covered female than a bunch of kids in hoodies carrying knives and causing trouble,or beating the crap out of someone innocent out side a pub.hoodies are more threating and intimidating than hijab,we are clearly debating on something which is'nt intimidating or harmfull or dangerous towards our society ! there are other issue we should be considering ! atleast women with hijab don't moan about being raped or being sexually abused !

james, london, u.k

Having read and enjoyed the above article, i turned my thoughts to the veil issue. I agree mostly with Laura and
least with Paul, but feel that the veil should be removed for reasons of security, or at the request of a figure of authority
{police or passpoet control}.
Maybe we should try smiling and saying "good morning", the eyes can smile too.

Bryan, London,

I used to live in Iran,
a country with almost no freedom at all,and now I'm enjoying every moment living in the UK.I think democracy and freedom is for people who deserve it. all these people with strict hijabs and niqabs can have better life in muslim countries such as Iran,Iraq or evan Pakistan.How are they living in a western society and expect strict Islamic laws,rules and order?I'm a muslim who never practice and never believe in my religion.I believe that British government and British people should not allow such an extremists ' growth in thier country.

shiva, Manchester,

After reading the above article and comments, I do wonder why the Government of our country believe that they have the right to ban the choice of a group of people. I am not religious but I do know some very nice people who are. I don't push my lack of belief on them and they don't push their beliefs on me. Personally I can't see why any woman would choose the dress in the manner discussed but it is her choice just as it is the choice of countless women in this country to wear short skirts or low cut tops. Last I heard this was a free country after all.

Laura, Sutton-in-Ashfield, Nottinghamshire

This is rediculas , This is NOT religion it is an excuse . I have poor hearing and I need in some cases to read lips to understand what people say . In some cases young children who as yet do not know they have pore hearing need to read lips without actualy reliseing they are doing it . Hideing the face is intimadateing , thats why the Ninja did it , Criminals do it not just to hide ID but also to intimidate , you can't see faceual expressions and you can't lip read if you need to do so . How do we even know if it is a woman and not a man trying to run from the Police that is wearing this rediculas excuse of freedom ? I have seen wear a terror suspect escaped from this country useing his SISTERS passport and nobody chalenged him because he was wearing this excuse for freedome . This rediculuase debate should not continue it angers me that people can't even wear a headie or even a crash helmet to be served in shops yet these women expect to get away with wearing this ...... OUTLAW IT NOW .

Paul, Manchester, Cheshire

Great Britain was founded on the principles of Negative Freedom. That is, freedom FROM. Our cousin over the pond was founded on Positive Freedom - freedom TO. The results of the Positive Freedom experiment are frankly worrying, and if we start banning niqabs and burkhas etc, we are moving towards the positive freedom stance. That's a dangerous path to take. I would much prefer Britain's much vaunted tolerance to return, with a freedom from oppression, and from government meddling, to be the cornerstone of our democracy.
I currently live in Russia, and I can tell you, a police state is not a comfortable place to live. You can only survive through bribery and corruption.
Long live negative freedom, and may people wear what they want with only their parents to criticise them.

William Hackett-Jones, St Petersburg, Russia

It's not even the covering of the face, it is the fact that having watched the undercover programme and hearing for myself that women are lacking and will never be equal that shocks me. Waken up, women are far superior in some aspects just as men are in strengh etc. they are different it is not a case of superiority. If I went down the street with my face covered and entered the jewellers they would be pressing the alarm. I feel it is an anti-social thing, I think muslim woman should take a stand as equals and let us see them. "Us kaffrs are not that bad you know". Britain will never be a muslim state fortunately and it is only a minority of moslems who feel this way. We have enough problems in Glasgow with Protestants and Catholics and we are all caucasians.

mary, glasgow,

It seems to me that accepting that the mass media largely control public opinion in this country, that many of the supposedly important issues are simply excuses to distract the populace from the real issue, namely the insidious state control of just about every aspect of our lives. Blairs vision of a decentralised pluralistic democracy are so much retoric.Soundbites from politicians will not solve our problems, nor will corrupted ideology or secular
self interest.Talk to your nieghbour.Every stranger is a potential new friend regardless of his or her beliefs. Let the politicians in and the problems start.Let the fundamentalists in and things are really screwed.

Steve, Ashford, Kent

I like balaclavas, they keep you head so much warmer than a hat when that Siberian wind gets up. But I wouldn’t dream of exercising my god given right to keep my nose warm while I walked into a liquor in the East End of London, because the staff would hit the silent alarms and duck for cover if I walked in wearing one. That isn’t a logical reaction, and it isn’t even a reasonable one. I don’t think wearing a veil is wrong and I don’t think we should ever ask anyone to give them up. At the same time, I don’t wear a balaclava because I think that other people’s right to live free from fear is more important than my nose being warm. And I don’t think the comparison is facile, because I genuinely believe that the practical value of wearing clothes is more important than any spiritual value: I wear a t-shirt to keep warm, not because of a message on the front. I think that freedom should be freedom to do anything that doesn’t harm other people, and I think that failing to consider the fear I might induce in others constitutes harm. Something both sides in this debate clearly need to consider, a law banning clothes being as likely to cause harm as the decision to exercise a right that strikes fear into those around us.

Nick, Brighton, Sussex

I wonder what happens when these naqib wearers use their bus pass or when they pass through passport control? Does anybody know?

Anton Duval, Sutton, UK

I would just like to say that while I share many of the concerns that veils isolate women from mainstream british society, I also think that if the govenment can pass laws preventing them fom being worn where will it stop? Could we pass laws preventing people from walking around apparently half dressed for example? Many people find certain fashions, particually ones worn by young people, to be offensive, so what makes wearing them a right? How I, or anyone else, dresses is my own choice and I think as a country that prides itself on its freedom of expression we shold not even be considering such issues.
I'm a student, Im not religous, and while I think many of my peers dress inappropriately its really none of my buisness.

Emily, Manchester,

I believe that national considersations should rule above those of each individuals beliefs. Just because the French find it acceptable to wander along the waterfront in Cannes in a skimpy bikini bottom no one argues that when in Oman or any other country holding Islamic values one would be arrested for this and we accept and understand this. This is the balance they have found to be socially acceptable. So why should those in the UK be allowed to single themselves out in a way which goes against the harmony of the whole? The use of masks has always been seen as the forming of a barrier between the wearer and those around them. This then will then evoke reactions in those who are confronted by the masks. British society has evolved over centuries and established codes of conduct and etiquite which ultimately are designed to harmonise and enable all to fit together with the hope of minmising confrontation. Although a muslim myself I am personally against the wearing such veils in the UK.

Basil, London, UK

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm getting really, really sick of the whole issue. What with the dreadful state of this country, the plight of the elderly, the implosion of the NHS, the drugs culture and 24 hour drinking to name but a few concerns, whether a woman chooses to wear a veil or not is not going to make one iota of difference to those suffering real experience of our sick society. Get a life. Address the REAL social ills.

Gillian Callister, Bexhill, East Sussex

My feeling is that to attend a meeting and have a debate without camera angles. Means that you engage on a face to face basis, now if the face of the person to whome you are talking or listening to is covered to the point that you have no idea what expression they have you are only left with tone of voice,you can't possibly know how to judge for yourself what is the meaning of their argument or point of view.

Steve, Torquay, England

I just find it extrordinary that people really think that "god/allah/whomever" takes any notice of what they wear. If I were to start wearing a specific kind of baseball hat or haircut, wear a certain kind of shoe, and tell you that I do it for god, would you call me a blashphemer?

jessse porter, silverthorne, colorado

when in rome ! were these muslim people who come to england looking for abetter life , why were they allowed in .why dont they look talk and become english and start anew life we were a cristian nation with cristian values must we change to islam not to offend any one; all the goverment is doing is creating a miniture countrys of where these people come from they are sowing the seeds of civil war in the fuetre they are just here to make up the pensions deficit and do the low paid jobs if i moved to a new country iwould except their ways and customs and hope to intergrate and defend that country against any threat as i was not forced to go there my message to all emigrants is if you critise our ways dont come here we managed for the last 2000 years without you and ruled 3/4 of the world i think we must be doing somethink right as you all want to come here so shut up or put up

taylor, harlow, england

I understand why women wear the veil. I am a Christian and not long ago women had to cover their head in church but that has all changed. God will love us whatever we wear because we are his children. Some time ago I was at a bootsale and sold somthing to a Muslim lady, she was not wearing a veil, We smiled at each other and laughed at something or other, I would not have attempted the same sort of conversation with someone wearing a veil because I would not be able to see if she was returning my smile. and I am hard of heaing and need to see a persons mouth.
The meeting was a wonderful idea. we should all get together more often.
Just a thought - was there refreshments afterwards? how did the veiled ladies partake
if their faces were covered?

D.J.Westgarth, Wickford, Essex

aren't there more important issues than the veil?
Is it was this country is all about, long useless debate about a bit of cloth instead of fruitful debate that would actually make a difference in people lives?
All those long talk about rendering the veil illegal while we have peadophiles walking free, teenagers painting the town red with BLOOD, ...
If we are to talk about the veil, it should be about how to protect women who are forced to wear.
And to all those men who claim that they feel insulted when they cross a woman wearing a full veil i would like to ask them: how about when i am insulted by some of you just because i reject your sexual advances?
So yes, we do need to protect women, but only from abusing men

tia, london, england

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20060713/ai_n16529028

Emi, West Yorks, England, UK

Libby Purves makes a good point about public meetings being a good chance to observe people 'without camera angles'

The majority of people in this country, irrespective of race, colour and creed, are decent citizens, quite capable of forming their own opinions about political and social matters. We don't need TV and newspapers to inlame difficult situations by distorting and polarising news in order to make better headlines and sell more papers.

The chance to air opinions at public meetings allows the interjection of humour. Face to face (or face to veil!) contact gives people who might otherwise feel marginalised an opportunity to be heard and to experience social inclusion. It is my observation that loneliness and feeling isolated can breed a bitter and destructive attitude to life. All the mobile calls and emails in the world are no substitute for real live human contact.

Suzette, Swindon, UK

i think wearing veil or anything like domestic violence keeping women locked up, covered up takes women feminine power away and this reflects on to men they become negative or backwards,distrustful lowering your soul, this is why spiritualism declines and we create intolerant societies as people or women soul that has been dragged to lower level can not behave domestically afterwards, to get out of this problem everyone needs to do lots of exercises like meditation, prayers to higher your self again or you will always be intolerant

Vince, birmingham, uk

Thank God / Allah for Libby's balanced reporting of this event. Dialogue with Islam seems to be doing a great job - we need many bridges between cultures, beliefs, ideas. Niqab-wearing women do make me a bit uncomfortable, but also so do skimpily-clad women. My discomfort should not deny others their right to freedom of expression, whether based in religious belief or personal choice, provided no laws are broken. I believe a niqab is acceptable. For identification/lipreading etc. e.g. in banks, and for some jobs, it may be necessary to consider requesting its removal but this should be respectfully, carefully negotiated, and apply to all items which obscure features. Our children will inherit the world we create. If we love them, we should extend that love to all those we and they meet in our daily lives, irrespective of dress, religion and origin. It will not always be reciprocated - but it's the only honest way to a fair, happy, fun, safe, inclusive world of kindness and justice.

Chris W, Leicestershire, UK

The veil promotes inequality and unfairness in society.
At a stage where the agenda is equal rights for gays to adopt, rights for equal pay for women in the board-rooms ect, surely to deny me seeing someone's face whilst he or she sees mine is an infringement of my human right. Should we all cover our faces? Can society function as we know it today? C'mon, let's get real.

Jaycee, Dagenham, Essex

I guess many people who pass in the street avoid eye contact or at best just smile, maybe we should all open up a little and actually speak to each other and listen for a reply.

Geoff Pickering, Heathfield, East Sussex

Respect is a word that comes to mind, many foreigners coming to the uk are claiming that we brits do not respect them and/or their religion but surely it should be the other way around "when in rome". Newcomers should learn to live with Britain and RESPECT Britain and its people.

Tony, Manchester, England

My problem with the wearing of the veil is that I am deaf and rely on lip reading to communicate. The veil makes this impossible so excludes me from the conversation.

Sally, Bolton, UK

We longer live in a world where other people's religions/way of life are respected. We always seem to find fault. Instead of finding fault, why don't we try and understand why things are the way they are. However, I do agree with the niqab not been worn, while carrying out certain jobs, such as teaching children etc

June Nolan, Leicester,

In resonse to Madeline who addresses her disliking of a Muslim woman in a bank que, may i advise her that the lady is well within her rights to wear her niqaab as it does not contravene any UK bank regulations at the moment. May you also note that In middle eastern countries separate banks are available for women aswell as ques for both sexes.

Thank you.

Muhammad , stevenage, England

And it harms none, do what you will; for goodness sake, leave people be, wearing the niqab isnt harming anyone, why argue against it?
The view that a woman wearing a niqab is threatening, or it makes it seem that men are are viewed as sexual predators are the issues of the observer, not the women themselves. They are just following their faith, it doesnt involve anyone else.

Sam, Birmingham,

Very well said. I'm a christian, but also a humanitarian. To me, the terrorists who claim Islam as the reason for their bombs are not just blowing things up, but splitting communities with fear and mistrust and creating a cycle of alienation. Personally, I refuse to be pushed back into the fear and ignorance of ugly history.

The next time I meet a veiled a woman in the street, I will be sure to say 'goodmorning'!

Helen, Liverpool, UK

The lack of empathy displayed in almost all of the comments made on this subject is symptematic of the cause of the problem. The problem is with people feeling threatened, not with actually being threatened.
how many of us have be harmed by a woman in a veil?
Equally, it could be argued, that the weraring of the veil was started because men felt threatened if other men could see their wives. If only people of all religions could understand that it's not possible for all your views to be correct but at the same time ackowledge that other beliefs are held with as much certainty as your own. i wish just occassionally people would try to see things from the other persons angle and not constantly drone on about the fault with other people just because they are not perfect replicas of what they think they should be. This applies to dogmatic religious outlooks of all faiths and intolerant individuals of none.

Graham, Liverpool,

I am a 40 year old British Born Citizen with Cypriot parents who came to UK in the 60's. I Love England, but if i go abroad i respect other peoples culture and traditions and i would not dream of offending anyone. I believe in give & take. The other day i was stood in a bank when a biker came in wearing a helmet, before he even got to join the queue he was asked to remove his helmet, which he did. The lady who was standing just behind me, well i say lady because all i could see was these 2 brown eyes was not asked to remove her veil. Who knows what she had under her dress?. If she isn't allowed to show her face for personal or religious reasons then she should get someone else to go to the bank for her. When people come to UK they should try and adapt to the country that has welcomed them. this surely would help them to fit in and be accepted more easily. Free NHS, free schooling, free housing, Come on give something back, don't just take.

Madeline, London, England

If the muslim ladies wish to wear a veil, let them do so, how does it harm you? why does it threaten you? how is it a threat?
if people are comfortable to communicate via email, telephone, post, radio and several other ways without seeng one another, then why hesitate to communicate with someone who stands before you but with a veil?

ash, Manchester,

well miss nadia even though you are talking about where ever you go you must act accordingly still you are saying how woman where scarfs it is ok. because you never saw anyone wear one beore it doesnt mean there isnt anybody who can wear it..you have your freedom right you can dress nearly naked if you wished but why when it comes to covering people have such a problem.that means everyone is extreemist on stuff which suit them the best.. you sound extreemist by saying if they use the veil you should get kicked out you will not like it if a extreemest white man said we do not like black people they should go. so would i disagre with that aswell but then again he can say that. and it will hurt you and you will hate those people who are racist against black people, my point is lets all be polite to eachother so no one hates eachother. I mean at the end of the day we are all humans who have different views. our blood is read i mean a veild person has the same colour blood as you why hate so much when there is love?

CanCan, London, UK

MS Nadia Warrington,
Many of these women who wear the face veil are 2nd or third generation BRITISH born, some are indigenous white converts! Many will find it insulting that an AFRICAN WOMAN comes to this country and tells them to GET LOST and LEAVE THIS COUNTRY. Perhaps you should go back to apartheid Africa. British people are NOT RACIST and NARROW MINDED!!

Kabir Hussain, Birmingham,

It would appear that some of the ladies who wear full cover clothing ,do so now more as a psuedo religous/political statement than anything else.
Its seems very hypocritical to me to wear such coverings in public,while wearing western style clothing such as jeans and trainers underneath it.
However we do live in a democracy and thank goodness for it.
People have the right to wear what they chose ,and more importantly the right to debate these issues.

Ellie, Johnstone, Renfrewshire

This is a democracy Free speech is being eroded daily . "It's not pc " etc. If these women choose to wear veils then fine . They are hardly Islamic bombers!

sandy, Kilmarnock, U.K.

Face veils make many British people uncomfortable. Yet the more they are criticised in the media, the more that people appear wearing veils. It has become a synchronised act of defiance, not religious conviction. The irony is that women who wear veils in Britain, attract much more attention from heterosexual men, lesbians etc, than women who do not. The justifications I have heard for wearing the veil stem from sexism, not Islam: can you imagine if men started wearing balaclavas, on the grounds that they're married, and therefore do not want female attention? Does Islam really decree treating half the population as a sexual menace?

Chris, Leicester, UK

What are these women hidding?, if they dont feeel comfortable showing their faces they should stay away from this country. The fact that the covering of the face is a matter of choice, these women should do what is acceptable in the Uk . When you go to Rome do what the Romans do. I am an african woman who grew up in Africa where children and women are not to look at men in their eyes when speaking to them as they say it shows lack of respect. But when I came to England I learned to look at people when talking to them.I can look at you now until you blush.I am saying this again when you go to Rome do what the Romans do .I f you cant GET LOST. I really dont understand why the government is allowing this to go on. It also brings divisions to people.Iam not against the headscuffs its cool in Africa most women wear it.. but they dont cover their faces.But why cover your face?

Nadia, Warrington,

The issue doesn't seem to be the hijab but the niqab. As mentioned in other responses there are lots of religions that ask women to cover their head to show modesty and devotion. The choice to cover 90% of your face is a choice to seperate yourself from the rest of your British community. My initial reaction is fear and then disappointment. This is what makes me uncomfortable. But then I feel insulted. Most men are not sexual predators but upstanding, honest and helpful members of their communities. It's insulting to them and insulting to all the western women who struggled to pathe a way towards equality for women in the justice, education and employment systems. I am all for ones free choice to express themselves but throughout time and memorial, in every culture, covering your face be it with a mask in battle or in an attempt to hide your identity in order to commit a crime or for a costume celabration the results are curiosity at best and seperation and possible intimidation at worst. Why wear it when a hijab will do?

Jessica H, Caldicot, Gwent,

To all Muslims and other religions who have BIG issues (and not the other way around) with how we think/feel in Britain. Go back to your own countries and practice your religions exactly as you see fit. In your countries you have NO special allowances for us, we can not build our churches, dress how we want and prevent your children from celebrating certain holidays in schools in case it offends us. It is not about US not respecting YOU. It is YOU who do not respect us, our benefit systems, our values and beliefs! There is nothing racial about this statement so don't try to turn it into one (often your only excuse), and pardon, as an example of some of us wearing a cross, in case you still have not noticed, YOU ARE IN GREAT BRITAIN.

Marianne, London, England

Lets be a little more 'biased' if you wish, by being a 'true Xstian'. That's because the majority of the poulation in Britain is Xstian. A true Christian lady will follow the best Christian model and that is The Holy Lady Mary. Where on Earth have you seen on picture representing Lady May without a cover on the head. Doesn't that resembel hijab of the Muslims. Its absolutely emotional and spiritually attractive to look a picture of the Holy Lady Mary. At least the majority of Muslims are following her example regarding covering the hair. But it is worse than finding red sulphur is to find a 'true Xstian lady'

british fellow, London,

I fully subscribe to the idea of 'to each his own', however, one would have to question the banning of 'hoodies' in shops and balaclava's and the necessity of removing motorcycle helmets for security reasons inside buildings, while allowing full veils. If there is no security threat or communication barrier to a veil, then maybe there is none to the other coverings either.

B Ali, London,

In a country where it is unacceptable to wear hoodies in some public areas, why should it be allowed to disguise your identity in the same places behind a religious veil!
Soon our NEDS will be turning to Islam, wearing hajibs,and mugging grannies, with their identity concealed!

cruicky, Aberdeen, Scotland

This country promotes individuality, freedom and democracy. So why is wearing a hijab and a veil become such an issue? its NOT a restriction, its NOT offensive, its a CHOICE and it is part of Islam, so why cant people tolerate with that? what is so scarey about it?!
Islamic countries in this day and age mix culture with Islam so really and truely its not PURE Islamic... no-one can force anyone to put on a hijab and a veil or whatever... its a personal choice and no-one has the right to intervene in that!
Theres more important issues to focus on in the world than this... people have just become paranoid and possibly threatened... theres some issues that need to be settled!

Ruba, London,

People are entitled to keep to thier beliefs and cultures, why should it be a problem for anyone else? People can wear whatever they want, when they want and how they want.

Genivive, London,

To those who say that the hijab should be banned (because it's "a barrier", "discourteous, discriminatory, offensive and suspicious"(!) etc) - where would your banning end??!
How about mini skirts? sunglasses? tattoos? dreadlocks? body piercing?
It shouldn't be up to the state to ban such things.

Llinos Jones, Bethesda, Gwynedd, Wales

Just one point, there are no so called 'rules' in Britain banning the hijab, therefore i'm unsure what people are trying to say when they say 'our rules' should be respected.
If christians can wear their crosses, sikhs can wear their turbans, then muslims can wear their hijab - I don't see how people are getting disrespected by them or see them in a different way.

Tom, BIrmingham, W Midlands

Born and breed in ENGLAND i am no longer english i am told ihave to be british i am church of england soon i will be a muslim tell a scottish or welsh or irish person to loose there relgion and see there reaction not like me who every time i bring the subject up im called a racist im at the stage where i get sick of hearing muslims this muslims that can you imaging me going to a muslim state demanding all the crap they spout at us

peter, birmingham, england

My mother, (very white british)was married in a veil, and its also a tradition of modesty in the uk for women to cover the hair in church.Many such customs exist in the west. BUT I believe a lot of the focus on Muslims in the uk is the result of much broader concerns with a great sense of a too rapid and 'we know best' change across a whole spectrum of life here that this truly awful government has imposed on a uncomprehending and very uncomfortable population without any interest in the concerns of the peasantry . The very british habit of grumbling away our concerns is denied us by anti everything legislation and the thought police, so pressures build up. Socialists are generally awful anyway because they believe their 'moral' high ground allows them to crush any dissent as intrinsically wrong. When it hits the fan they will be long gone as usual.
I believe it truly is about the volume and rate of change here. e.g. a glass of water is a welcome, a torrent is frightening .

paul wood, stoke on trent,

I watched a documantary recently where and indian lady was coming to the UK to instruct her niece in becoming a woman. In India she wore jeans, trainers, t-shirt and a denim jacket. Great. When she was filmed after having arrived in the UK she was in the full Indian costume complete with head gear. WHY? If it is ok for her to dress in jeans in her own country why does she have to set herself apart from the British in this country. She deliberately chose to dress differently to set herself apart. Why do they do this, its obviously nothing to do with religion or culture or she would have worn it in India.

Jennie, Carterton, UK

I find the veils discourtious, disciminatory, offensive and suspicious. They do not show the face for a full expression of meaning, they discriminate against me because I am male, they represent a subservient gender and they are meant to hide 'something'. I have been brought up in a culture where others wear religious cloths which have covered both genders equally but where the face is seen,(catholic). Their beliefs on the other hand (of God?) do not offend me.

Mark Pittman, Newport, Gwent

I do not think there is anything wrong with the hijab and Muslims should be allowed to wear it. Its a free country and it should be accepted. The British are scared of losing their identity because they are not sure what it is themselves. If you are confident what being British is all about than it shouldn't pose as a threat. Embrace and love to all!

Georgia, Belgravia, London, uk

Can i just add I don't knoe if you have recently been out of the country but if you have not noticed alcohol can be consumed in most places, YES even in Islamic countries. At the end of the day rite we are co-dependent thats the beauty of the human race we are the only species that effectively work together in order to make the world better for each and everybody. If a small thing like the way we dress, I.e. skimpy dresses, full cover, gothic, hippy, then there really is no hope for any of us. This is sooo sad.

paul Lewins, Preston, UK

I have no problem with anyone being an individual because at the end of the day regardless of what we wear the world is not getting any better. I just think people need to think about the real things that are going on in the world, and try to make it a better place. In addition, I've been to Turkey recently which is meant to be a Muslim country and you don't see people wearing Islamic dress codes there, because there is freedom there its just we are puppets and we all believe what we are told, but then again the sophistication of our civilisation is reducing in masses, but hey we can always depend on other countries for there natural resources, because we are too lazy to be British.

Kathryn Jones, Oldham, UK

i lived in the middle east has a expat for 12 years and found the people very warm and kind and we obeyed there rules and covered up if we went out ,we could not wear a cross or practise been a christian we lived like them and enjoyed the many happy years there. my point is they come to this country for the freedom and the chance to improve there way of live so why do they still bring the restrictions and make them selves targets . enjoy your freedom go to the theatre and cinema go dancing and eat together in public and learn to adapt in our country uk is a fair country not a controling one.

barbara, Warrington, uk

Its not just "a piece of cloth" - but a barrier - It seems we are too afraid of offending Muslims in Britain today, I fear we are going to lose our British Identity.

sharon, Oxford,

I resent the muslim wearing the hijab. If they want to live and work in another country, then they should be prepared to abide and conform to the laws and rules of that country.. After all, if western women visit a muslim country they have to conform to their style of dress and living. So, I am not in agreement with them coming to another western country and not conforming. After all, if the a country is good enough for them to live in, why do they have to stick to their muslim laws and religion, etc. I see no reason for that.

ahayton, glasgow, uk

The Koran says that women should dress modestly therefore the hijab is not necessary. By women choosing to dress in such a way they are clearly making a political belief statement and choosing to form a barrier to society. What happens next, do we see a raft of discrimination cases brought against employers who insist that workers come to work in proper attire? It is just as self-discriminatory as someone who comes to work dressed as a Goth who one might argue make equal belief statements. While many liberals would say that people should be able to dress as they please why is this not extended to the rest of the population. If an employee came into work in a clown suite and said I BELIEVE the world is a big joke would management stand by and say his got a point, NO. However if someone came to work in the hijab employers would think very seriously before saying anything and that’s at the heart of the real matter.

Trevor Bacon, London, UK

I believa that people have thier own beleifs and that other people have no right to jugde what other people do. Its not like women wearing Hijab are swearing at you or are mass killers that ahve bombs strapped to them, its jus a religious beleif. muslims respect this country and show respect to people in the country. I think other people should show the same resect and support them in this religious belief.

Faisal, Leeds,

The Koran says that women should dress modestly therefore the hijab is not necessary. By women choosing to dress in such a way they are clearly making a political belief statement and choosing to form a barrier to society. What happens next, do we see a raft of discrimination cases brought against employers who insist that workers come to work in proper attire? It is just as self-discriminatory as someone who comes to work dressed as a Goth who one might argue make equal belief statements. While many liberals would say that people should be able to dress as they please why is this not extended to the rest of the population. If an employee came into work in a clown suite and said I BELIEVE the world is a big joke, would management stand by and say his got a point, NO. However if someone came to work in the hijab employers would think very seriously before saying anything and that’s at the heart of the real matter.

Trevor Bacon, London, UK

No they should not where them .I cannot go to a MUSLIM country and drink alcohol and gamble? No I have to respect their rules so let them respect ours

John, Watford, Herts

My mother was forced to wear the niqab eventhough she was a catholic and a foreigner while living in Saudi Arabia. She was even once hit by a priest for holding my father's hand in a public place. When one is not capable of respecting another culture or its beliefs, one should not expect their own beliefs to be respected. I believe in moderation and toleration. Fanaticism cannot be considered to be the equivalent of faith.

Joe, Leeds, U.K.

there should not be an arguement or even a discussion about the wearing of head the hajib, everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and way of life, to stop this is to undermine democracy, a word which seems to have become less and less associated with Britain and the Western world, what with Guantanamo bay and the injust war on tERORR.

MCH, nottingham,

If girls wearing skimpy clothing (which i don't like to see incidentally) could go to a muslim country and not cause any offence or controversy, then niqab wearers in Britain wouldn't bother me. Its the inequality that annoys me, yet we are called 'racist' all the time for mentioning these things.

Paul, Preston,

What harm does a niqab or a hijab cause on british culture? This is really a muslim women dress, here in this country, we see only a tiny few wear such dress, muslim womens have been living in this country from the time of British colonialism and a tiny few have alway's been wearing such dress.
Britain is undoughtedly unique for democratic values, multiculturalism and tollerance, undenyably a role model of democracy.
There are many muslim country's in the world, if we visit a muslim country we will come across with many womens dressed with hijab and niqab, from a broad prospective, this is the world we are living in.

The recent highlighted story of hijab and niqab is not helping us at all in terms of integration,infact, it is damaging the race relation.

raj, london, u.k

I firmly believe that people should be free to choose to wear whatever they want but given that they must be prepared for peoples reactions. Hoodies make people feel uncomfortable and threatenend regardless of the fact that there might be a perfectly nice teenager underneath. The same with the veil. This is human nature.
When we communicate only 20% is verbal and tonal the rest is facial expressions without this we have misunderstandings. Women with the veil don't expect me to talk to you as, being partially deaf I rely heavily on lip reading.

Claire, Gillingham, Kent

If a muslim come to my door and i spoke to her through my letter box.
I am shure she would be offended i feel the same having to talk to some one through a hole in a veil
if i go to any country i abide by there laws but when others come to our country they want our laws changed only for there good and its about time it stopped.

mark heasman, dartford, england

I am sorry but I do not recognise the definition of democracy outlined by the person from Virginia USA. Democracy is NOT about doing whatever you the individual want, that is Anarchy. Democracy is government (supposedly) based on what the majority of people want. Democratic societies tend to be more tolerant and allow greater personal freedom, but they are not necessarily the same thing.

Which means that no matter where you go, whether you are part of the majority group or not you will be expected to conform to the rules of that group. More tolerant societies will make some allowances, but the more your behaviour diverges from theirs, the more friction there will be.

Ironically, considering the animosity many religions show towards other forms of divergent behaviour such as promiscuity or sexual perversion, I imagine it is exactly the same kind of tolerance for one kind of behaviour that allows the other.

Jon, Birmingham, UK

So do you really believe a god fearing, devout, down to earth woman who respects her religious laws and abides by the british laws will be causing harm to this society? Reid allowed peodophiles and rapists to go away free, criminals to get less prison time and yet i don't see you arguing about that. Americans and the British went to muslim countries like iraq and afghanistan to spread their democratic ideologies and you wanted the people to accept this? Rather than banning the veil, how about you update the policies to work hand-in-hand with it. At airports, banks, you can have a woman check the veiled women in a private room! islam does not forbid this. Islam also supports the mere fact that there is no compulsion in religion. Those women are not here to convert the british people but just to practise their religion and provide for the welfare of this society. I personally don't see a problem why you can't wear a cross in airport. Take it up with your Government not out on the muslims.

H.B, Nottingham, UK

democracy does not mean doing what you want it means abiding by the wishes of the majority eg if 49 ppl want veils adn 51 ppl want no veils then no veils are worn , that 's democracy, its what allows some to say what they do on these websites without the police taking you away like saddam, the rule of a democratic nation.

peter holtz, plymouth, England

The threat in our counry is very real....why are these women allowed to continue to wear these veils?....when we do not truely know who is actually behind it...down to the possibility of a male behind a womans mask....if it is not allowed in other european countries...why are we so lax here and bow and scrape to this very real threat of someone possibly being very sinnister charachter behind a mask? I have read totay that it is not actually written in the koran for a woman to wear such a garment...so why should it be allowed as law here...what will happen next? Are they going to wear these for passport photos? Driving licence photos? or even work security photos? ....considering they are not supposed to show their faces...who would be allowed to check if who they say they are is behind the mask???? Hoodies and crash helmets are ban in many areas what makes these any different? And then there is the very real problem....a daily problem such as mine, I am deaf and I lip read! How are people such as me supposed to cope with veils that hide faces and lips...I read all these as part of my every day life....are they shutting people such as me off? Are we not worthy of their views and share in normal debates and conversations....we are being greatly effected by this behavior...what about the deaf and those hard of hearing being discriminated against also? As a society we must put our national security first then consider all the members that make up society....and keep it fair for everyone.

lilly, Norwich, Suffolk

After reading several comments, it is evident that a lot of people oppose the veil. We must acknowledge that Britain is multicultural, multi-faith and democratic society and is part of our human rights to express one's religious identity. However, I feel that Britain might need to change their legislations in dealing with veiled women at airports and so forth. On my holiday to Dubai, the identities of veiled women were checked by women staff at the airports. Maybe the government needs to change aspects of security, so that the British public have confidence and stop viewing them as a threat but understand and enforce security measures that are compliant with their religion and culture

Shehnaz Bazeer, London,

When I worked in Saudi Arabia I had to wear long clothes to cover my ankles, high necks, arms covered although I didn't cover my head. Why, when coming to this supposedly christian country, can't people of other cultures do what we do?

sally griffiths, bristol, england

Having read the Quran myself, nowhere, ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE does it say that a woman has to where the veil. I regularly attend an islamic womans group and we often have this conversation. We have a female islamic teacher who attends and is very learned and feels the problem with many people (both muslim and non muslim) is that cultures and the islamic faith are being combined and this is causing such animosity across the board. The fact that some muslim women say it is the religion are mistaken. Reason being, if the veil was truely islamic then why are women NOT allowed to wear it and have to show their face when at one of the most holiest of events the Hajj.

Julie, Torpoint, cornwall

I must say I was very much dismayed when I read from one of the post that, fully veiled women pass through passport control without taking the veil off, so how do they determine who is behind the veil?
I believe this is wrong, if you preach that islam is not just a religion but a way of life and you want to live a pure islamic way of life in a non islamic country, there will always be problems. since one part of the country cannot live under islamic rule whiles the other part under full democratic laws, there will always be a big problem in this country. I suggest Britain follow the French in standing firmly against some of the unacceptable practices of islam.

Eric Kay, Leicester,

I firmly believe that anyone wishing to reside in a foreign country, and in this particular case the UK, should respect the traditions of the people. One cannot expect to come here and radically change the customs of the nation just because they find it offensive to thier religious beliefs or way of life. They should either adapt and or find alternative settlement. It is simple as that!!!. I believe in compromise to a certain extent, but certainly not banishing the culture of a nation to accommodate a foreign belief.

Radcliffe Green, north london, England

In my opinion, if we truely mean that we are a democratic country and keep venting ourself for the freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of many fundamental rights that democratic countries offer, then the issue of the veil, the beard, the turban for the sikh people etc concern no one except these people themselves.This is because of the freedom that each individual has.We should grow up and be more realistic.There is no question of islamic countries or christian countries..in fact where do all these things come in?If we can have seperate toilets on the issue of gender, then can't we have a female officers to examine these veiled ppl?We would be hypocrites to allow the christian matrons to dress up like that or the indian woman to wear her sindur to manifest their faith through their clothes/tradition but not allowing other ppl to do so.We should understand that each one is different,whether of the same religion or not and that we should adapt ourselves to live and let live..

Ja v ed, Phoenix, Mauritius

The niqab is perhaps being picked on unfairly at this time, but some of the comparisons made are valid. I have been told to remove my helmet on many occasions, as it hides my face, and therefore makes fraud possible. I have seen fully veiled women pass through passport control, with no possible way of knowing who they are. Both of these things can be argued for, but both can be shown to be wrong.
Lets try to get along, but not forget that at the moment, it is muslim terrorists we are worried about, and unfortunatly this will affect all muslims, as Irish terrorism affected all the Irish population. Hopefully, it will pass soon.

Jim, Berwick,

Assalaamualaykum,Am a true believer as others muslims.We believe that none is worthy of worship except the sole creator of this world, I mean Allah.And the Prophet(P.B.U.H) is the universal final Messenger of Allah.We believe on the Quraan which has been revealed to the Holy Prophet and we must live on this temporary world according to the life style shown and practised by our beloved Prophet (P.B.U.H).
Thus,Islam is not merely a religion, but an examplary way of life ruled officially by Allah and practically shown by the universal Messenger.
Hence,No stupids has the right to bring any kind of changes on its fundamentals rules and regulations.I quote two verses of the Glorious Quraan to support my declaration.(1)Today i have perfected your way of living,and i have completed my favours upon you and i have chosen Islam as a method of life for you.(Chapter 5, verse:3)(1)A believing man or woman has no right to have their choice in any matter which Allah has been decided.Chpt::33 V:36

Ml\Shariff, Beau Bassin, Mauritius

Why is it that hoodies and baseball caps are banned, but not veils? In turkey (a muslim country) veils are banned in public, so why in Britain a christian country aren't they banned? If they want to live here they should respect our culture and laws. If they don't like it they should not complain about our customs and live elsewhere that caters for their wishes. Why should we have to alter our way of life to suit theirs.

Richard, Cannock, Staffs, UK

The english should stand up more and be counted rather than be put down by our own inept goverments attempts to force everyone elses ideas upon us.

david robinson, dagenham , uk

If there were more public meetings like this around the country, maybe we would be able to dismiss many myths and fears from both sides - develop better inter-cultural/religious communication.

Joanna Bentom, Yeovil, England

WE live in a world where we are trying to promote Democracy.. Though sometimes I wonder if everyone knows the definition of Democracy... when i say democracy i mean the freedom to do what you want.. that incluces to where what you want, to belive in what you want, to live the way you choose and want.... But unfortunatellly it doesnt seem like that.. it seem like we have to live by how the citizens of a certain country want us to live .. If the french citizens want us to live without having to follow what are religion asks us by wearing our hijabs ..then we HAVE TO LISTEN and obey them.. OR else we would go to jail.....under the crime of whatever is availbale??!!! What kind of DEMORCRCY IS THIS???.. The more People go against wearing the veil.. then the more women would want to stand up for what they want to do.. even if inside of them they had 99% of will to take it off... why cant we just live our daily life without judging ppl by what they say, wear, do, or belive in? Why can't we give everone a chance to expalin themselves..and just like them no matter how they are????

Sumaya, LakeRidge, Virginia, USA

The article was interesting and enlightening. The wearing of the veil has always been a source of curiousity to me. Do women like it? Is it forced onto them by men in their lives? Is it oppression of their indivduality? I just don't know the answer. I have worked in the oil industry for many years mostly in Muslim countries in the Middle East. I have met many Muslim men and made friends with many. However I have never met a Muslim woman in these countries so don't know how they feel about the veil. The culture (maybe the religion) prevented me from asking any of them as I had no contact. So to read the article was great I just wish I had been at the meeting to air my views and listen to the views of others especially the veil wearing ladies.

Ralph, Baku, Azerbaijan

----I think that the veil should be allowed to the muslim women, it's their religion and it's wrong that people are trying to get them to go against their religion and their beliefs. Its being turned into a big issue but it isn't just leave them alone, it's their beliefs and nobody has the right to change what they believe in.--
No, i agree that in this day and age of multiculturalism there should be some sort of compramise. But when the niqab interferes with the ability to drive,the ability to pass security checks etc.it should be wavered.I can not walk into a petrol station with a balaclava or a motorcyle helmet on!This is a Chrisitan country, no matter how multi cultural we are, are if imigrants (no matter what generation or belief they they are) want to live here, they should integrate with our values and beliefs rather than the people who have fought and payed this country's taxes for decades have to change just to suit their needs.This is still a Protestant Christian country

Jack B, Preston, Lancashire

I think it is rediculous when political correctness rules over pulic safety. the niqab is not an essential part of islam and is being used by extremist islamists and criminals (as proved in the pc sharon case) as a way of exploiting the everyday decent muslims beliefs. As as a British Serviceman, sworn to protect this country, i find it disgruntling and in fact discusting that i was nearly run off the road, abused and nearly injured by a group of young muslim men on my way home from my barracks one day, these people claim to be British and benefit from all the rights a British citizen has, and as an infantry soldier protect their right to live freely in this country, yet they would harm someone who protects democracy and all the values that Britain stands for. It is my opinion, however non politically correct it may be, that anyone who acts against this great nations armed forces, no matter of colour, crede or belief, should not be allowed to live here. A bit of graditude for Britains armed forces would be appreciated, Country over religion.

Jack B, Preston, Lancashire

Time to defend our culture the way other countries defend theirs, time to stop running ourselves and our country down. Time to remember who we are. Time to stop being backed into a corner by trying to be PC and not offend anyone. Without losing our respect for others.
The staff of a building society looked uneasy when a helmet-clad motoryclist entered and rummaged through his pockets. There was an uneasy silence as they watched before he removed his head-gear, as requested by the notice at the door. Would niqabs and hijabs be removed?

Ashley, Reading,

I'm a white English girl in her mid 20's, like to have a good time and consider myself fashionable and abreast of popular culture, yet I too feel uncomfortable with the way that young men and women dress and behave in public. 'Trashy' and 'cheap' is the word that comes to mind! I have travelled widely and no-where else have I seen young people in city centres drunk, fighting and puking in the street and generally causing and threatening mayhem - why are British youth like this? young men roam together, young women roam together not mixing easily and there is no evidence of older and youger people mixing together as they do in other countries. I feel sorry for the Muslim women who choose to wear the veil - full or otherwise - as I have often been witness to them being jeered at and disrespected. What kind of 'fair play' is this? what kind of tolerance is this? I dislike this Anglo Saxon brute behaviour and will be leaving these shores for a more 'polite' society as soon as I qualify and am able to do so.

Serena, Manchester,

I think that the veil should be allowed to the muslim women, it's their religion and it's wrong that people are trying to get them to go against their religion and their beliefs. Its being turned into a big issue but it isn't just leave them alone, it's their beliefs and nobody has the right to change what they believe in.

heather, preston,

I have worked in the Middle East for over 13 years and i am just so fed up with "US "and the Muslims!!! They are lovely friendly people.Dont tar everyone with the same brush.They understand christianity and never condon it,in fact the Koran is very closely linked to the Bible.I am fed up with these PC people in the UK who try and cancel Xmas as it may offend the Muslims...thats Bollox....come to Dubai during Xmas,you will see the local Arabs in Santa hats!!!
It only causes anomosity between the muslims and the christians,which one the people here cant understand.
They are peacefull loving people,and i have many muslim friends to prove that.

Regards and Enshalla

Bill Arthur, Dubai,

What a well written article Libby. I believe it is very important to remain balanced on such issues. It is very easy to pin our fears & emotions on a symbol. I do find the way some westeners under dress, fairly offensive to the eye & I do feel uneasy about the wearing of veils. Indeed the woman you met in the sreet should perhaps have said good morning to you, to ease your discomfort, being the visitor in our country. I believe we should be able to express our British culture & visitors shoul abide by our rules, as we do in their countries. Let's be balanced but not dumb down our culture.

Mandy Speakman, Exeter,

With no ill will towards any muslim or any other person of any other coulor, creed or denomination, I also sympathise with a lot of what "Truth", London says. I would likewise hope for a reinvigorated Britain, with a freedom for all good law abiding citizens and with a sensible tolerance of all without deviating too far from our own cherished traditions, morals and (often Christian) values.

Al, Glasgow,

they should be banned from public places. thus is a british country

michael button, gwent, wales

I think, yes, it's great to let everyone have their say, but what moral facts do we British have to stand on when Christianity has been so rudely, tried to be shoved out of Britain? The muslims at this dicussion where basing their veiws on their beliefs to why they wear the veil even though i've been told by other muslims it is not in the Quran that they should have the veil over their face, it's something they're choosing to do. Britain gets trappled on because it allows so much to get passed into the laws, it has nothing to go by anymore, no foundation to say well, no thats not right because of this reason we most definately should'nt do that, etc, everything comes from the top of our heads, well no, actually not mine, i'm a believer in Christ, the laws i follow come from God! The government is so busy in allowing so many different religious laws to enter the country that it has become confused and a mess. I'm not a racist, i know people who are muslims, even some in my family and this is even more why i say what i say, Britain looks silly in the end, become a laughing stock and a walk over because it does not follow moral laws, people think Gods laws are so boring and not needed but yet going out late nights getting drunk , taking drugs, having one night stands, walking around in skirts that come up just under their bum, wearing hooker boots ( because thats where the style comes from and no'one can say it did'nt), kids following what they see, kids killing kids, the list goes on and on. No, the world could'nt be perfect but it could be alot better, no'one should complain when the country gets messed up because God has been pushed and pushed out of the schools, out of the laws, when a christian tries to speak to someone on the street about Jesus what a look some people give, it's not just no thank you, it's some really bad looks, some people slap people in their faces, beat up people, call the police and spit in christians faces for just trying to talking about Jesus to them on the streets, in some countries churches can't even be built and christians are killed for their belief in Jesus and we speak love, not hate and yet the veil thing comes up and everyones sitting down having cups of tea and a slice of cake about it trying to add it to the law, whats up with that! But you know what, even though His been pushed away He always continues to bless people with happiness because He loves us so much and what do people say when it happens," What a coincidence" " I'm so lucky!" but when muslims have something great happen for them, ask them who they thank. Me personally, i thank God because i know it was Him that gave it to me, not science! I pray that this countries eyes will be opened to the truth oneday, i really do!

Truth, London,

I agree

Geoff Plumber, London,

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Libby Purves

Libby Purves worked for some years for BBC Radio 4, as a reporter and a presenter on the Today programme and, since 1983, has presented Midweek. She joined The Times as a columnist in 1990. She received an OBE in 1999 for her services to journalism and was Columnist of the Year in the same year. In her spare time she writes bestselling novels. Her opinion column appears in the The Times on Mondays

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Are niqabs and hijabs just bits of cloth?

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