Sneakily, Britain's first Muslim Minister, Shahid Malik, has ducked the
critics that he will enrage in an interview to be broadcast on Channel 4's
Dispatches programme on Monday.
Knowing that the phrase he uses to describe the situation of British Muslims -
“the Jews of Europe” - will make the headlines, he has put it in the mouths
of others. “If you ask Muslims today what do they feel like,” he says, “they
feel like the Jews of Europe.” He does not say if he thinks that they are
right.
I'll respond in the Malik method. If you asked most non-Muslims what they feel
about the suggestion, they would say that it was disgraceful, outrageous and
insulting.
Mr Malik's assessment of how some British Muslims feel may be accurate; but
they are wrong. Race is not the issue. Unless we face up honestly to the
incompatibilities between aspects of the ways of life of some (not all)
Muslim groups in Britain, and the British mainstream culture, we shall find
ourselves babbling about racism when the issue has less to do with race than
with culture.
That is why I thought the Lord Chief Justice, Lord Phillips of Worth
Matravers, in a careful speech at the East London Muslim Centre on Thursday,
slid too quickly over the trickiest parts of his argument. He was discussing
the application of Sharia in England and Wales.
The speech has been variously reported as anything from a gentle warning to
cultural separatists within Islam, to a craven endorsement of the
compromising speech about Sharia made by Dr Rowan Williams, the Archbishop
of Canterbury, last year. Lord Phillips took as his theme and title Equality
Before the Law. This was shrewder than it was brave.
“Equality” is a dummy concept in the philosophy of law. Here it allowed both
speaker and audience to overlook real differences between them, because
everyone is in favour of equality. But Lord Phillips was wrong to say that
only recently has English law developed a respect for equality. Common Law
and Statute have always regarded everyone as “equal before the law”, but
depending on who and what you are and what you've done, your rights may
differ. A cat burglar and a householder are not equal before the law. An
under-age teenager and an adult, a British citizen and an illegal immigrant,
are not equal. An in-catchment-area and out-of-catchment-area parent are not
(in their children's access to a local school) equal. It's all a question of
category; the categories of citizen that our laws create do and must create
differences - inequalities - in the rights of individuals.
The only interesting question is whether these inequalities are fair and in
the public interest. This must depend on moral and cultural standpoints,
which change over time. The argument about “equality” for (say) women who
wanted the right to vote, gays who want the right to marry, slaves who
wanted to be free, or convicted paedophiles who want the right to be
considered for employment in children's homes, has only and always been
about the suitability of these categories to enjoy the rights urged for
them; not whether the law should be “equal”.
No more than English law does even the most brutal Sharia advocate
“inequality”. It simply reflects a cultural belief that women are different.
Lord Phillips ducked that by taking equality as his theme.
He ducked again by denying that Dr Williams had said anything surprising. He
reminded his audience (as Dr Williams had) that it is possible under English
law for groups to agree on whatever rulebook (or adjudicator) they like, and
that Sharia cannot be excluded from the available range of rulebooks.
That apparently bland reminder steers round some serious difficulties about
jurisdictions-within-a-jurisdiction. The key paragraph in Lord Phillips's
speech is this: “A point that the Archbishop was making was that it was
possible for individuals voluntarily to conduct their lives in accordance
with Sharia principles without this being in conflict with the rights
guaranteed by our law. To quote him again ‘the refusal of a religious
believer to act upon the legal recognition of a right is not, given the
plural character of society, a denial to anyone inside or outside the
community of access to that right'.”
There are two statements here, both doubtful. It is by no means certain that a
group of individuals may voluntarily conduct themselves according to Sharia
without breaking English law. It depends what Sharia says. We are not free
under English law to agree (however willingly) to break English law. We may
not agree to discriminate on racial or (usually) on religious grounds
against third parties or even each other. A woman may not agree to accept
diminished employment rights. We may not agree to punish each other (as
elsewhere Phillips acknowledges) unlawfully. Without a clear account of what
Sharia demands, Lord Phillips cannot know.
But the second claim that Lord Phillips endorses is more dangerous. Decoded,
Dr Williams is saying that in a multicultural society it is fine for people
within a culture to agree not to exercise certain rights, even if English
law would allow them to.
This is a charter for male dominance. It's a charter for cultural bullying;
for peer-group pressurising; for self-oppression. It's a charter against
women and teenagers who cannot make wholly free choices because they have
nowhere else to go; a charter against individuals whose circumstances have
made it difficult to think outside the cultural box; a charter for discreet
duress. I am sorry to hear the Lord Chief Justice endorsing it.
Public policy in Britain, however cloudy a thing, goes wider than law but
informs the law and lawmaking. Make no bones about what 21st-century British
public policy thinks of arranged marriage, the subjection and seclusion of
women, unequal divorce and property arrangements within marriage, preaching
hatred against apostasy, or the ostracising of homosexuals.
Public policy dislikes these things. Sometimes the State legislates to
discourage them. Sometimes the State stands back.
Whether or when to intervene will in the end depend on no clear doctrine, but
on a general understanding that things must not be allowed to get out of
hand. How widespread, how deep, how harmful and how infectious are bad
cultural attitudes, will ultimately be the decider.
Neither the Archbishop nor Lord Phillips do any service to public policy by
seeming to encourage a recourse to religious rulebooks that runs against the
modern British grain.
It made me sad to note that Lord Phillips began his speech by describing his
maternal grandparents' arrival in Britain in 1903, Sephardic Jews who eloped
from Alexandria and their families' attitudes “because they understood that
England was a country in which they would enjoy freedom”. How fortunate that
the attitudes they were escaping did not pursue them here with “voluntary”
codes pushed forward by a “shared” culture whose compelling nature is more
insidious in reality than it seems in law.
As an ex-pat living in the USA I am stunned at even the remote possibility of Shiara law becoming legitimate in Britian. The oppression of women is alive and well. This women is prepared to pick up arms and fight for freedom of ALL women.
Islam is theocracy
BGears, /sugar Land, Texax
That would be the trouble with bringing Sharia law in - or having Islam in politics - and that is Muslims would seek to have the same protection from criticism - as they do for the religion.
In the Islamic world Islamic law is repressive because it is considered godly and therefore above challenge.
Marie, London,
@Cobin
Muslim Law is only "immutable and total" in that some human beings consider them thus. It is their OPINION, and therefore open to challenge or discussion, like the law itself.
Similarly, they are only "Gods actual rules", in that some believe them to be so: there is no evidence. None.
Steven, London,
If it is acceptable to disdain a repressive political belief system ie. communism, fascism etc. , without being called a bigot, why cannot I disdain an equally repressive religious belief system without being called the same? I respect the right to believe, but not necessarily the belief itself.
Kip Hamilton, Williamsburg, USA
These people in powerful positions seem to have some sort of ideology they kneel to. You could actually believe they have all went on some sort of indoctrination course and named it something along the lines of 'common purpose'. Surely I'm wrong?
Robert, Aberdeen, UK
Europeans still imagine that the laws of Islam are similar to, say, English Common Law. They are not. English common law was made by the people, for the people. As society evolves, English people change it.
Muslim Law is immutable and total. Gods actual rules. So how can you "discuss" them?
Cobin Rain, Hay on Wye, Wales
Why is this so bloody difficult for these Muslim immirgrants to grasp that when you immigrate to the UK that they must over time re-adjust their internal culture clock.
An immirgrant needs to embrace the majority culture not vice-versa.
Much of the blame belongs to the "Multi-Culti" morons.
Rick Jones , Prague , Czech Republic
Lord Phillips says that only some aspects of Sharia law will be accepted. Tell that to the mullahs! Sharia is an all-encompassing system of civil, criminal and religious rules. No Islamic court is going to let an infidel - let alone Jewish - judge tell it what it can and can not pontificate on.
Brian Jordan, Huddersfield,
SNAP - Yes, some of the Quranic laws can be found in the Torah BUT the Jewish people being the clever and humane beings they are, dropped the inhumane and archaic laws which muslims still espouse. Until you do the same, you will never be respected or welcome in our modern civilised world.
You go!!
Kiwi, Christchurch, NZ
I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Britain in its dying days for everything it has given the democratic world: Locke, Hume, Blackstone -- really, a treasure of Enlightenment ideals.
It was really nice knowing you. So long.
ProfNickD, Phoenix, USA
And people wonder why the BNP are making a comeback. They seem to be the only party which care about BRITISH values and dont wish to have our workers replaced by foreigners or bring in a religion like islam into the uk. It has no place here and shouldnt be allowed.
ANdrew, London,
If the Muslims in Britain wish to practice Sharia they should feel free to emigrate back from whence they came and practice it to their heart's content.
Bruce Northwood, Washington, D.C., USA
An absolute no. To recognise any part of sharia law is to legitimise all of it - that includes victims of rape being murdered, barbaric punishments (walled up alive, drowning), objectivisation of women and children as property, women not permitted as witnesses. I could go on.
Penny Hajduk, Brighton, UK
It would be unworkable.
Anybody could claim to be a Muslim when it suits them to chose between which law would be in their best interests, regardless of their ethnic origin.
How does the law define a Muslim?
Our laws are complicated enough without being given a choice as to which law we choose.
gary hallows, manchester, united kingdom
To my best knowledge Jewish people have never wanted to alter the way we live here in the UK or in the rest of Europe. Look at the problems in France with Muslims not Jewish people. We must NEVER bow to minority pressure and I say this as the GB national daughter on Indian immigrant. Sharia=misery
Mrs Day, Middlesex, UK
There is no formal certification process to designate someone as being qualified to interpret or evolve Sharia law. Anyone can make rulings as long as they have the appearance of piety and a group of followers. In the context of British society, this is frighteningly reminiscent of the Inquisistion.
Antonio, Estepona,
Although I feel revulsion towards Islamic extremism in all its forms, this is a tricky area. It is lawful in this country for a person, for example a Catholic, to believe that abortion, contraception, extramarital sex and homosexuality are morally wrong and to demonstrate peacefully to that effect.
Seb Carroll, Leeds, United Kingdom
The UK already has two different legal systems, their retention was key to the Union. Under Scot's Law neither Beth Din nor Shiara have any standing as in Scot's Law the people not parliament or the crown are sovereign. Blair forgot that at his peril with the Lockerbie Bomber escapade.
Peter Thomson, Kirkcudbright, Scotland
Britain lacks the the courage to be itself. This is a country which has founding principles. While accepting muti-culturalism, the British authorities must ensure that British values and laws are respected alongside other faiths. Sub laws undermining Britishness is a form of hypocrisy. Be your self.
Tanangui Closee, Exeter, UK
What is this obsession of creating a cultural melting pot at the expense of our country's identity? I know we English can be very polite, but enough submission.
This is the UK, the people that live in it do so in the understanding that they abide by our laws, and that should be the end of it.
Ross, Ripon, UK
Once again, I feel so sorry for our mother country. We in the US could not conceive of recognizing Sharia law as equal with US law. You Brits had best take back your wonderful country while you still stand a chance.
Haven, KY, USA
Let's hope the Brits will stop bowing to Muslim pressure. Shameful. Absolutely shameful if Sharia law becomes party of British society. That's the end of it all!!!
Suzanne, Avon, United States
Mr Parris - You need to do more homework- there is no sharia law that forces people into marriage against their will - that would be a crime. Sharia law is also against equal rights form men ( men have to spend on their families, women can keep all their income). More prejudice than facts here.
Reason, London, UK
In that case then, I'll opt for Canon Law!
Hugh O'Neill, Chichester, U.K.
I cannot understand why the British people, in toto, are not shocked and appalled by even the suggestion of Sharia law taking place in the UK legal system-to any degree at all.
It shouldn't even be mentioned as a possibility,
I am more shocked than I have been in many, many years.
Geoff Anderson, Davis, USA
There is no place in a secular,democratic society for any sub-legal system pertaining to any religion.We are a nation state with equality under the law and many of these s0-called legal systems are just an excuse for male,patriarchal domination. It's a disgraceful,retrograde statement.
kay, leeds, UK
Clearly everyone should be living by British law which has achieved stunning successes in the areas of reducing violent crime like knifings, anti-social behaviour, rape, theft, white collar crime at home and promoting an ethical foreign policy abroad.
Sharia would clearly have the reverse effect.
Asim, London,
All this 'male dominance' and 'female victimhood' talk is anti-male sexist nonsense.
Attack the real issues, not imaginary straw 'men'.
kash, London,
Tom Beijing
Even if women in the most conservative parts of the Jewish community felt obliged to use the Beth Din they would at least be able to speak English to give consent. Also the total Jewish population is a very small number of people maybe 300,000 as opposed to 1.6 million Muslims.
Eric, Walsall, UK
It is not correct to say that the application of Sharia family law will only affect Muslims. Sharia is terribly discriminatory toward women in divorce and inheritance. Poor divorced/widowed women left without support or a settlement will become a burden on all taxpayers, not just Muslims.
MaryJ, San Francisco, USA
The headline over Matthew Parris's article has got it in a nutshell. There can be no equality unless all are judged by the same standards and laws. The place of domicile must determine what laws apply.
Nigel MacNicol, Oakham, Rutland UK
25 years ago "Judeo-Christian" was just not part of the vocabulary. Considering all the inaccuracies and hysterical racism I see in the previous comments, well let's just call a spade a spade and say the moslems are where the jews were just before WWII. So much for understanding ...
Adi, Athens, Greece
Sure, ethnic courts can have their function within their respective communities but they should still abide within the law of the land.
ian cheese, london, uk
If anyone in the UK ever bothers with history they will know that famously, appeasement never works.
Don't drag us back to medieval times, even they were better than Sharia law which is massively mysogynist and against the human rights of women.
thalia, london,
As most Muslims live in Labour controlled areas it is in the interest of this government to introduce Sharia. How else will their MPs be re-elected next time round?.Not by the English that is for sure. I can envisage prayers on a Friday where Muslims will be told to vote for Labour.
Jan, London, England
I dont get the voluntary bit in relation to sharia family law. Do people think these vulnerable young women do have a real choice? This is true consent? Shouldnt the discussion be how to protect these women rather than how to quasi legitimise their bullies? Good article. Thank you Matthew.
Nick B, London,
I feel the problem is having the debate in the first place. The law is integral to the cohesion and functioning of a society. It is an essential characteristic of how we define ourselves. It should therefore be above tampering with for the appeasement of others (time to say our way is the right way)
Josh, Manchester, England
@ j macdonald: Not all Muslims are Pakistani! And not all muslims wish for you to follow our ways.
Similar to Catholics and Protestants who are both Christians, different 'types' of Muslims have different views on certain matters, so we don't all the Sharia to be part of England
Jabed, Wigan, UK
Comparing Sharia to the US death penalty (which is carried out after full due process of law with a defendant having the civl liberty protections of the Bill of Rights (something we in Britain not only lack, but whose value we don't fully comprehend) is absurd. Moral relativism will destroy the UK.
ms, London,
If man knew his Reality, he would stop squabbling over power that he thinks is important and accept his God-given right to Ascend to his proper place. To every soul- an attribute that reflects God's essence, holding it in the infinite niche of the heart. Following Iblis has made us all-dogs.
M. Nasr'uddin, Karachi, Pakistan
Seems Islam-bashing is acceptable here - perhaps the "today's Jews" tag isn't so far off the mark. Parris's concern about people being forced against their will into an alternative system is valid. At the same time, if the Jewish Beth Din courts are allowed to operate, why not Sharia courts?
Tom, Beijing, China
I always considered myself a liberal, but not anymore, England should be English in law & attitude. If people want to live here then follow our rules, if you don't like it leave... end of discussion.
I fear the future to me it looks very dark for all of us...
jim, london, uk
Let's keep the 'chop the hand of thieves ' instead of 'having 4 wives' and other 'niceties' for this male dominated law..
This might help in changing the minds of quite a few sharia lover.This law is soooooo middle ages...Reminds me of KLINGON law (!)
lichien, MAURITIUS, MAURITIUS
Its good that Mr Parris thinks the way he does but its not worth a ton of dandruff if those wet , gormless people who represent us in parliament decide its a jolly good idea. There should only be our laws in Britain, not Moslem, or EU, British laws. If some don't like it, then go live where its law.
Phil de Buquet, Newport,
If British Muslims feel like "the Jews of Europe..." -- Tom Welsh, Basingstoke
Sir, that is the opinion of one British Muslim. Why is everyone assuming that all British Muslims feel that way ?
Should you accept the opinions of Dr Williams or Lord Phillips? That goes for you too Mr Parris.
jayil, london, uk
Nick in Oman. It is apparent that you have not, as yet, been subject to Sharia Law. Fortunately you are in one of the more tolerant areas of the Muslim world. There are many areas especially Africa, Iran and Saudi Arabia where the law can be, and is, applied in a ruthless fashion.
Simon, Bedford, England
Has Britain gone crazy. After hundreds of years Of English law, the best in the world how could they consider diluting it.
Particularily to laws that are worse ever compiled. Doesn't any one believe that Shiara law promulgates the take over of the world by the Muslim religiion. LISTEN TO THEM.
Robert Hofmann, Bristol,R.I., USA
Britain is digging an enormous pit for itself and you will all fall into it, with your policy of constant appeasement and acceptance of the unacceptable because some misguided clergyman or somebody with a "Lord" in front of his name claims that the unacceptable is harmless.
MJ Hoeber, Orlando, USA
Getting the UK to accept sharia law is as idiotic as Arab countries accepting the Englsih civil and criminal codes.
Robert Postuma, Montreal, Canada
Tim from Toronto states that "I can reach a resolution with my neighbour while talking to him over the fence" and thereby implies that consensual Sharia is fine. But if you bully and intimidate your neighbour into a 'resolution', what is it worth?
Lyn, Birmingham,
Thank God for Parris' logical mind and this telling rebuttal of the woolly Phillips political correctness. Of course Sharia puts a chill factor on all Muslim girls, who are already being removed from schools and forcibly married. Sharia would herd them away from access to normal law, legally.
Janice, Witney, UK
May of Dagenham, you may be right. But my point is that what both Islam and the Judaism of Lord Phillips have at their core is in fact this genital mutilation. The very essense of Christianity is to counter it. Aren't we taking the wrong sides in all this?
David, Cambridge, UK
I am more than sorry I am incandescent with rage. We are already allowing Muslim girls to be treated differently at every age. In this paper there is a picture of a Primary class and a child within it is covered. This is not even required in Islam but brainwashes her for life.
Geoff, Braintree, UK
Tim from Toronto - Mein Kampf suggests Jews weren't discriminated against on cultural grounds - they were considered an inferior species. This isn't at all the same thing. An agreement made over a fence between yourself and your neighbour must still be made within the law - you miss the point.
EM, London,
The report, titled 2007 Review & 2008 Outlook: Islamic Finance, further promotes the much-hyped potential future of Islamic funds and investment vehicles that adhere to Sharia law. Banks are falling over one another for a slice of the Islamic finance industry, which may be growing by as much as 15%
jayil, london, uk
Spot on!!
25 yrs as a lawyer has taught me a few things - one is that Judges might be quite good in deciphering 19th Century legal precedent, but, like Archbishops, their knowledge of the real world is extremely limited & they should never be allowed anywhere near policy determination. Never!!!
Mark, Berkhamsted,
There might be talk of recession in the United States, but in oil-rich countries, the petrodollars just keep flooding in, and they're driving the increasingly powerful Islamic banking sector. The major centres for Islamic banking are in the Middle East, the UK and South East Asia, but now Australia?
jayil, london, uk
Spread across 70 countries, Islamic Finance has grown to almost a trillion dollar industry. The Prospect for the industry are quite bright given strong demand for financial services from a large segment of about 1.4 billion Muslim populations .
Islamic Finance is growing at a rapid pace of 15-20%.
jayil, london, uk
David of Cambridge If male circumcision was to equal what happens to girls it would entail the removal of the entire penis. A little extreme perhaps. In any case Islamic authorities have finally and recently come out against the vile practice.That at least is not mandated by Sharia.
May, Dagenham, UK
Yes what a pity that the Government listens to only male extremists who purport to represent the Muslim community but merely represent themselves. They should be engaging with real people not self appointed bodies. Does Labour think they will get male Muslim votes if they betray Muslim women?
Sandy, Rotherham, UK
If British Muslims feel like "the Jews of Europe", how do Palestinian Muslims feel? Not like the Jews of anywhere, that's for sure.
Tom Welsh, Basingstoke,
I have spent the past six months living in the Middle East and have seen the benefits that Sharia law provides. A stable family structure and a low crime rate are two of these benefits. Sharia is no more barbaric than the lethal injections of Texas
Nick, Oman,
All the speeches about Sharia Law in a British context can do is to make matters worse by increasing fear and resentment. Paraphrazing what has been said about 'being the Jews of Europe' and applying it to today's Britain, more and more people feel like the Germans of Europe. Tensions are rising.
Carlos Cortiglia, London, United Kingdom
Most people have so fallen for the "religion of peace" deception that they have not bothered to find out the truth about islamic ideology. If you want to see what sharia looks like, go and live in Saudi, or Iran. If you like what you see - stay there. Islamic encroachment must be resisted.
Nick, Rotherham, UK
If you're a male Muslim living in the West, here's the deal:
1.Your daughter will have sex with and marry whom she wants
2. Honor killing will get you jailed for life.
3.Your wives & children will freely convert to a religion of their choice or to no religion at all.
4. Voltaire trumps Mohammed.
Lester Golden, Riga, Latvia
Malik, wants to get things right the Muslims are racist to the whites in this country. they mock us and we will never integrate with them.
Geoff Fish, South Elmsall, West Yorkshire
The difference is that we have always, rightly, shared an understanding and closeness with Judaism (The 'Judo-Christian' tradition) for many, many years. Beth Dins operate within UK law. British Jews are peaceful, unassuming and contribute greatly to our society. What about Islam? Not so.
EM, London,
There is no place in modern legal systems for incorporating religious law. If laws are to be applied equally to all citizens than there can only be one standard set of laws to apply. Those who wish some different result should have considered that before moving to the western world.
Marc, Washington DC, USA
Is the British government deaf to the strong arguments against sharia by feminists like Maryam Namazie and liberal Muslim intellectuals like Tarek Fatah and Hasan Mahmud? What kind of nuts support a primitive ideology that even modern Muslims oppose? Britain won't remain great if sharia becomes law.
Mehul Kamdar, Des Plaines, IL, USA
If Sharia Law gets the OK I will press for the introduction of Calvinistic Welsh Methodist Law. All issues will be either black or white issues, with no tolerance of 'grey areas'. An eye for an eye philosophy will return. Belief in God will be abolished - Welsh Calvinists think Him far too lenient.
Dr. Jimmy, Nottingham, England
Why don't we just circumcise everybody; male and female, and be done with the entire debate.
David, Cambridge, UK
Matthew,
I examined your sentences. They were beautifully constructed.
Oh - the article - I agree.
Michael.
michael petty, riverside, usa
Yet another group of old men getting together and 'deciding' that 'women are different'. How boring! Why dont these guys proffer up a useful role and use thier time to help raise their children/grandchildren.
R. Ince, Istanbul, Turkey
A slippery slope indeed- and into the unknown of laws customs and pratices which have nothing 'modern' about them-anti Gay/ women/equal rights etc.
but Mathew,first and foremost is the need to stop calling our fellow citizens 'Lord' what utter nonsense.
mike, oxford, england
Actually, Michael Snap etc, there isn't any God. By all means live your life as if your preferred one existed if you find it helpful, but don't expect everybody else to.
Graham J, London, UK
"It's a charter against women..."
And probably worth remembering that, if the law enables the restriction of one group of women, it's effectively legitimating discriminatory attitudes towards all women.
Ruth, Cardiff,
"...we shall find ourselves babbling about racism when the issue has less to do with race than with culture..."
Who says the Jews weren't ostracized because of culture?
Tim, Toronto,
Two things must be kept apart clearly; muslims who would like to practise sharia law in non-muslims countries and those who live in non -muslims countries. Sharia law must not be impoesed in non-muslims countries and those who would like to practise sharia law must leave from non-muslims countries
Stara D, London, UK
M. A. Jabbar
The real problem is not that we don't understand Sharia law, it is that Muslims cannot agree on a common understanding of Sharia law.
John, Reading, uk
I would very much like to see a change in British Law-not necessarily to Sharia, but I think we have much to learn from others. Our elderly men and women-some of whom who fought for this country, are too scared to walk down the street. Clearly our system is not working.
M Malik, London, UK
I can reach a resolution with my neighbour while talking to him over the fence. Does this approach need to be abolished because we didn't use our country's legal system?
Obviously, you people don't understand what is even being discussed.
Tim, Toronto,
Once again, the unbalanced rights and demands are given in to. We need equal rights in the ME too. We're always pandering around, 'political correctness this, that etc...' Our culture is being eroded, brick by brick, soon, we'll have the crescent and star over parliament. It's on its way.
lionel, ny,
Mr. Jabbar, what is there to be understood about sharia law?"To seek to bind an individual person to exclusive ideological dogma and rules of conduct that contravene an act of a democratic legislature is unlawful".
Fabio C, London, UK
Bravo.
People of the UK, it's time to stand clearly, unequivocally, and permanently for secular democracy and uncompromised equality before the law.
Disestablish the Church, and make a statement to the world that in the UK no religion plays a part in the law.
Victor Purinton, Cambridge, MA, US
Absolutely accurate and totally relevant comment from Mathew Parris.
Britain and particularly Scotland were the cradle of a movement which permitted rational thought , reason and enquiry to exist in a different paradigm from fundamentalist religious dictates.
Lets not return to the medieval era.
Mark goldinger, Glasgow, uk
I only hope he doesn't Snap.
Fabio C, London, UK
The problem with modern Islam is - there isn't a modern Islam. You can't have a modern country with respect for all human rights with a medieval religion. Islam needs to undergo a reformation.
John Kantor, St. Petersburg, United States
Lord Phillips should stand down. Making such statements will never gain acceptance from the majority population and in doing so he has shown how unsuitable he is for the position he is in.
He is not alone though for the law has made an ass out of this country in the last few years.
Alan, Leeds,
Nicolas Sarkozy,a goof, who is thinking of visiting China.why does not he ask someone.Are you a boss of the world? Does Chinese like you?
lee , new york , usa
'because everyone is in favour of equality'
I'm not sure about that Matthew. I think some people are in favour of inequality, or allowing a system of inequality to persist. I doubt the gender pay gap would last long if you reversed the sex profile of our elected representatives.
Al, Edinburgh, UK
To Elizabeth: Don't apologize for being offensive. Those who come to your country and say, "I'm here now; everything has to be my way," are decidedly offensive to you and all other Brits. They should apologize to you.
Monroe, California, U.S.A.
Sharia rules are unlawful under UK statute. To seek to bind an individual person to an exclusive ideological dogma and the unsubstantiated divine authority of a despotic supernatural deity contravenes the Human Rights Act 1998.
Peter Curtis, Fareham, UK
Prince Charles and Princess Diana's marriage was an arranged marriage and the British public loved it. Unequal British divorce laws belittle and demonise fathers and nobody protests. Romanis and refugees know only too well what it's like to be on the bullying end of British law.
Alice, London,
One law for everybody equal under it ,should be the model. That the leaders in Britain seem to have no grasp of that basic tenet of Britishness, is a worry. Why have they lost confidence in the British basic beliefs? We should understand that appeasement never works.
Jane Prior, Whiteway, Canada
Surely people of diferent faiths come to this country because we are a 'free' society.
Our laws have no relevance to religion because we have seen, in our history, where that leads. In law we are always progressing to do the right thing. Sharia has no place in the world, let alone the UK!
kim, lonodn,
Brilliant article - spot on - and hilarious to see people ranting against it who are incapable of even spelling or articulating a clear argument (see comments below). If you can't even spell properly how can we assume you've understood the arguments enough to formulate a response?
Cathy, London,
Another well written report from MP. One wonders what would be if he was still in the House of Commons. Sharia law does not belong in the UK, we have a one system for everyone.
Ash Patel, Birmingham, England
Excellent article and looking at the last letters here I agree with John Lewis. The sum of British common law was hard won. Isn't the main problem with Sharia law, That there is no definitive standard of what that law is, no final authority. The law varies from place to place.
jJane Prior, Whiteway, Canada
@ David Burns
"Which section of his Tooting constituency does Mr Malik actually represent?"
None, he is not the MP for Tooting I don't think he has ever been there.
tari, London, uk
I agree. Britain is seen as a save haven for many people throughout the world looking for refuge and equality. Sharia law is does not offer freedom and equality. Muslims come here of their own free will, under a british passport. They should be accepting British culture not making us Pakistani
j macdonald, Edinburgh, Scotland
Sharia rules are unlawful under UK statute. Subservience to a despotic supernatural entity contravenes the Human Rights Act 1998. To seek to bind an individual person to exclusive ideological dogma and rules of conduct that contravene an act of a democratic legislature is unlawful.
Peter Curtis, Fareham, UK
It is good for our society to have a proper public debate not only about Muslim Sharia Laws, but about freedom of choice with respect to life and living in Britain. Many who comments (and in fact incites public feelings for or against, such as this one) do not really understand Sharia Laws.
M. A. Jabbar, Altrincham, Cheshire
Mr Smyth from Belfast makes a crucial point. Once we give in to Sharia, it'll be impossible to refuse demands from other faiths. The fabric of society will be torn along religious lines, and to the north of France there will lie a Disunited Kingdom. Is this what we want?
Dilip Dhokia, Bradford, UK
A law should be brought in that withdraws all rights and citizenship from anyone who wishes to live under any other law than English Law with funds available to repatriate those individuals.
D Case, Newquay,
Because Islam is classed as a religion, people confuse it with race and are hesitant to criticise it. It is more accurate to think of it as a philosophy and political system. Then we can observe that, just like like communism, it has failed to work in any country, and is extremist by its very nature
Manoj, Kingston upon thames,
It is very clear that Muslims, and the Sharia, should have the same status under British law, as the Jewish Beth Din. No more, no less. There is really no argument. It is wrong to bring up fears unnecessarily, Mr Parris. It only incites racist commenters.
Alex, Paris, France
You only have to make your way to North London to see how the orthodox jews are operating in their isolated, insular, ghetto with their Beth Din courts to see that this is not the way forward for the UK.
Lu, London,
Western civilisation incresingly lacks the will to resist the advance of Islam. Is it that one Abrahamic world view is much like another? Or is it that we have rejected all rationalism? (Observe our sympathy for dark age Buddhism in Tibet). Perhaps we secularists must look to China.
Eric Skelton, Cardiff, Wales
I don't wish to be offensive but have you noticed how many of those who are so eager to surrender our laws and freedoms do not come from the 'English' population as such.
People whose forebears, through the centuries, fought and frquently suffered and died to maintain these rights for us today.
Elizabeth, herts, England
The most important fact has been left out. The main reasons why "pick & choose" Sharia law is supported by Lord Phillips & Dr Williams is not because they've caved into their demands but because it hugely benefits UK
1) Sharia interest free financial system
2) Free up courts- marriage & divorce
jayil, london, uk
There maybe things we can learn from moderate Muslim law but I think the biggest lesson for The Lord Chief Justice , Lord Phillips of Worth Matravers is take a closer look at your own back yard first. As I grew up in the 60s the British Law and judiciary were the pride and envy of the world no more
Dave Farmer , Broxbourne, England
Excellent article. There is only one law of the land, and that is British secular law. Any religious group is free to indulge in counselling, mediation or gobbledy-gook, so long as that does not infringe the law, or encourage the breaking of the law, or infringe individual human rights.
Paul Freeman, London, England
There has never been a time when I have felt such dismay at the "Walter Mitty" world of Law Lords, Jack Straw having to rush in legislation to protect the victims from the villans who's rights seem to be paramount, some Muslim philosophy could benifit our society but not nessersarly Sharia,equality?
Dave Farmer , Broxbourne, England
It is a simple question and there is a simple solution. It's not about racism it's about removing the liberal idiots who run the public service and don't have to face the voters. In Britain we have our legal systems, if you want a different system - there are a number of exits from our lovely land.
Reiver, London, UK
i dont understand why we have to cater for muslims specifically. noone in the chinese, jewish, hindu groups have such a large, or disproportionately loud voice. Echoing previous comments, if people want Sharia law, go to a Muslim country.
Enoch Powell was wrong, but he was also right
chris, Manchester,
If you want to talk about equality in law visit a Family court whilst in session! Oh sorry you can't it is a closed shop so not under press or public scrutany or any scrutany for that matter thus they are allowed to get away with inbalanced judgments other courts would be laughed at for needs2stop
Dave Farmer , Broxbourne, England
Shariah is the solution for all the problems we face this century, it is needed badly, so, lets have the courage to implement it and you will live the prosperity you never had, phisical, mental, and spitual prosperity. start by not standing against God's Law, dont you wish you are on the Right track
Michael Snap, London,
Where does it stop? If changes are made to accommodate Sharia Law, what other groups may also want the law changed to accommodate their own beliefs? To alter law or legal processes for one group but not others is discriminatory. It is one country and everyone should abide by the same set of laws.
Jim, Melbourne, Australia
Excellent article Matthew and there is certainly no need for Sharia Law to be introduced into the British Legal System. There are solicitors/barristers who can sit down with their clients to negotiate a settlement/agreement.
Absolutely no need for Sharia in UK!!!!
Chips Westwood, Sarlat La Caneda, France
Sharia law is only a plane journey away - enjoy your flight!
SarahN, London, UK
“Severe physical punishments such as flogging, stoning and the cutting off of hands would not be acceptable” Lord Phillips
Not be acceptable! I should bloody well hope not! This man is the most senior Judge in the UK and he makes comments that are incredibly naive as well as downright dangerous.
Graham Davis, cambridge,
Most immigrants up to 1950's came for idealistic reasons. To get work, enjoy a better life.
Hard line muslims refuse to accept any culture and faith but their own versions. I live in Saudi and fully ACCEPT what goes here. that's the critical difference.
Leigh Vernier, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
When in Rome do as the Romans do, if not GO.
When Oh when are we going to see a judiciary that lives in the real world.
B.Hewland, Waterlooville, Hampshire
Labours Shahid Malik plays the race card whilst conveniently ignoring the many aspects of Islam that some Muslims would impose on the majority as objectionable and illegal that they are. No go areas for Christians, enforced prayers to Allah for Christian kids and underage marriages to name a few.
Mike, Alicante, Spain
English law already accommodates Roman Catholic tribunals and Jewish Beth Din courts. They (certainly the latter) are also not especially woman-friendly. We would need a better reason than Parris gives not to extend that existing principle to Muslims.
John B, London,
Unelected out of touch people like this man go against the publics interest in their interpretations of the law (terrorists etc) unlike other EU judges. In the US people realise supreme judges judgements are largely political (rather than some spurious righteousness) often reflecting current culture
David Cartright, Birmingham, UK/US
Shariah Law is the Law of God, some of survived in the Taurah of the Jews, none survived in the Bible, but all of it is still intact in the Holy Quoran and always will, if you are against God's Law, why dont you leave his earth and infact all his universe and go elsewhere, leave your soul behind
Michael Snap, London,
When I lived in Saudi Arabia I obeyed its Sharia Laws. I did not like it there and so I left. I invite all muslims who would like to live under Sharia law to leave the U K and go to a Sharia country - That includes you, Mr Malik - Who gave you the right to ruin the country of my birth? Wake up U K
Riley, Kiev, Ukraine
Immigrants have for centuries been drawn to our country by its world-leading legal system. They’ve come to escape their own legal systems, not to import them. Nor should we import them now. If people want to live under Sharia, they know very well where it reigns.
Colin, Chester, UK
We are at a period where moral and ethical relativism has reached a watershed peak. Hopefully this insanity will be seen for what it is, and states like Britian will stop dismantling themselves in the name of this ridiculous concept of "multiculturalism". Britain has a European culture, not Asian.
Paul, Carlow, Ireland
For the people who are trying to implement Sharia Law , I believe it is their place in history that is coveted , rather than what is important for the country . That place will be recognised wether it turn's out for the best or not .
Do not indulge these people.
Nick Dixon, Sutton Coldfield, England
A good article. It highlights the concern that I have, regarding members of the so call communities not be given the choice between Sharia law and English law. Lets not run the risk. Bin the idea now.
Susan, Barry, S Wales
Someone suggesed we elect our judges. What a sensible idea. Excellent article Mr Parris.
Carol, London, UK
If you want to live under Sharia, please feel free to return to the Middle East.
Steve Kraft, San Jose,
I doubt if anyone disputes that any Sharia tribunal would have to operate within the law. So do plenty of disciplinary committees and even the Jewish Beth Din. Effectively they are voluntary arrangements. Mr Parris' concern is that for some they will be involuntary. Valid point, how to fix it?
james, Hong Kong, China
I find it bizarre that Britain is so willing to abandon its culture, laws and traditions to placate, perhaps, 5% of 5% of their population.
Colonial guilt combined with misguided multiculturalism has proved to be a very unhealthy mixture.
Have some pride guys!
Liam, Dublin, Ireland
Detailed concerns in the article but I'm certain that the provisions will be similar to those already accommodating Jewish Beth Din courts and Sharia councils which already operate. It's unreasonable to fear that English law will be circumvented wilfully, helplessly, so why entertain it.
philip, cambridge,
"Australians are more sophisticated that Britons". Not a phrase with which one would normally agree but in their attitude to Muslims, or anyone else who seeks to impose their beliefs on Australians, they most certainly are.
Andrew Waldron, Bournemouth, UK
If you go and live in another country you abide by their laws. If you don't like it you can go somewhere else. If you go to some Arab countries you may not drink alcohol. If you like your beer you wouldn't go and live there. It works both ways. It's called respect for the law, wherever you are.
David Ashton, Bathurst, Australia
Which section of his Tooting constituency does Mr Malik actually represent? I presume that he feels that his only job is to provide megaphone coverage for all things 'Islamic' -but surely that is not why he was elected ?
Perhaps his largely non-Islamic and non-aisian voters will boot him out soon?
David Burns, London, UK
There are cultural incompatibilities that cannot be wished away. "Multicultural" advocates seem to willingly overlook them. This is unfortunate, as it leads to blurriness of argument, making issues even harder to decide. This leads to resentment.
This is not just a British, but a European problem.
Wolfgang, Boulder, CO, USA
Divide and conquer. Wake up and smell the New World Order.
Chris, London,
Very well written. I would like to note two points. The first is that Islam, like christianity or Bhuddism, is not a race. It is a totalitarian religous and political system.
Secondly, we should have elected judges. In that way fools like Lord Philips would soon be out of a job.
Steven, London, UK
Frankly, I am flabbergasted that such topics are even being discussed! What is the matter with this country?! This is England, and therefore, only English law should govern us. End of story!
Dilip Dhokia, Bradford, UK
There was a movement in Ontario, Canada towards the provincial government allowing Sharia law to be used by those who wished to. Fortunately for all of us the process was stopped before it was instituted, hopefully it will never reappear. Fortunately the Muslim community didn't complain afterward.
greg panke, Toronto, Canada
Some statements and court decisions made by senior judges are so strange - like they live on a different planet.
May be some of them like Lord Phillips should live among Muslims for 12 months and only after that he may suggest to us to accept the world's most backward legal system like sharia
savo, london, uk
This country's legal system has evolved as a result of a struggle between Monarch/state and the people. It isn't perfect but is generaly fair and works. Any one coming to live here agrees to abide by it purely by seeking to take up residence in these shores. Sharia is alien; it belongs in the past.
John Lewis, London, UK
Giving in to the Sharia would open the law to demands from other faiths to be similarly recognised. Very rapidly indeed, we would have no law.
Charles Smyth, Belfast, Northern Ireland