So, the Palestinians have got their “two state solution”, even if it’s not
quite the thing they, or the rest of the world, envisaged. The homicidal
fundamentalists of Hamas now control the Gaza Strip, while the corrupt and
incompetent Fatah controls the West Bank enclaves of Hebron, Nablus and
Ramallah (although let’s see how long that lasts: I give it three months).
That’s the choice the Palestinians have when they go to the polls:
happy-go-lucky Hamas versus the good old PLO, Fatah - and the people, the
voters, seem to like it.
If a third party came along that was simultaneously corrupt, incompetent,
homicidal and fundamentalist it would probably clean up in Palestine. The
old neocon fallacy, upon which we went to war in Iraq, was that the people
of the Middle East desire nothing more than to be led by decent, secular,
democratically minded politicians who wished ill upon nobody - Menzies
Campbell in a headscarf. And then every time they are given a chance to vote
they go for the likes of Hamas, or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in Iran. In the case
of Palestine, the election result so appalled Tony Blair that he generously
invited them to have another poll and this time try to get the right result
- a suggestion considered a little cheeky by most Palestinians. Which is
another thing he and George Bush do not understand: the more closely
identified they become with supposedly moderate forces in the Middle East
(such as, laughably, Fatah), the more fervently the mass of people will side
with those Bush and Blair consider extremists. This is part of what has
happened in Gaza and may soon happen on the West Bank. By and large, the
Arabs and the Iranians hate and mistrust us and have no great appetite for
liberal democracy; rather, it seems the people of each benighted satrapy
yearn only for a leader who will exert maximum violence and misery upon
almost everybody else but themselves.
“We want peace, my frent,” ordinary Arabs plead with the western news crews in
front of smashed homes and bombed buildings after each successive spurt of
nihilistic carnage, from Basra to Beirut. And so they do, probably, just as
soon as they’ve exterminated one or another local enemy - Fatah, Hamas,
Sunni, Shi’ite, Kurd, bedouin, Druze and, of course, the Jews.
And the more western politicians treat democracy in each of these countries as
a means to their own strategic ends and refuse to accept election results,
the more democracy will be seen as just another western con trick, never to
be trusted.
As the recriminations begin in Gaza, the Israelis - whom the world knows to be
in the wrong in its occupation of the West Bank - will sit back and say,
“See, told you, that’s what happens when these people are allowed to rule
themselves”.
Both the Israeli deputy defence minister and a bunch of West Bank Jewish
settlers repeatedly told me recently that the Palestinians would turn their
country into “another Somalia”. Being a good western liberal I replied well,
I doubt it, but that’s their right. And so it is.
But the Palestinians would seem to have exceeded even these hawkish
expectations. The Gaza Strip right now makes Mogadishu look like Lucerne.
The Katyusha rockets will soon be raining down on those Israeli citizens
unfortunate enough to be within striking range of Gaza City - and who, then,
will have the nerve to censure Israel for responding with what one imagines
will be insuperable force? They knew it would happen; it did happen.
She cried rape, he must be guilty, right?
A lesbian, Amy Jones, has just been sent to prison for four months for
perverting the course of justice, having told the police that Rod Swainson,
her stepfather, had raped and sexually abused her since she was 12 years
old. He had done no such thing. Mr Swainson was arrested, spent a week in
jail on remand and was awaiting trial. He is free not because justice took
its natural course, but because Ms Jones ’fessed up to the fuzz that she had
lied about everything: he had done nothing, she admitted. If she had stuck
to her lie Mr Swainson would most likely have been convicted. It would have
been his word against hers and as both the government and nongovernmental
organisations continually tell us, women must be believed when they howl
“rape”. There is enormous pressure on our courts to convict and so the
balance is now horribly skewed against the defendant. One reason for this is
the myth that the number of convictions for rape has decreased in recent
years. It hasn’t: the number has stayed pretty much the same. The percentage
of allegations resulting in conviction has decreased, which is a very
different thing. The suspicion remains that there are not more rapes than
once was the case, but a large increase in spurious allegations instead -
encouraged by a political climate which insists that women must be believed
and there’s an end to it.
Imogen’s rather sniffy about men
One young woman missing out on the sexual frenzy gripping our nation is Imogen
Lloyd Webber, who has not dated a man for 18 months, or so she told the
Daily Mail. Imogen, 30, will not date men who use “the illegal class A drug
cocaine”, as she puts it. Apparently they all do. Imogen makes a point of
asking men about their drug use the first time they have dinner together and
when - as is always the case - they reply in the affirmative, she skedaddles
without finishing her soup. Two thoughts immediately occur. First, it is
inconceivable that one could contemplate having sex with a member of the
Lloyd Webber family without first ingesting industrial quantities of class A
drugs or, if none are to hand, eating shoe polish or snorting glue. Second,
it may be that midway through the first course Imogen’s dates suddenly
realise what an appalling mistake they’ve made and take the very convenient
escape route offered by Ms Lloyd Webber. “Oops, yep, sorry, I am a bit of a
coke head, now you mention it. Never mind, nice meeting you. ’Bye.” I can’t
think of much to commend cocaine, but preventing the possibly accidental
coupling with Andrew Lloyd Webber’s daughter is definitely one such.
- Another dispiriting report about Britain’s young people: they are apparently
in the grip of a sexual health crisis, fuelled by alcohol and illegal drugs
and encouraged in their behaviour by the actions of chavvy celebrities. The
other thing is that our teenagers are also growing fatter by the minute and
will soon be so hideously obese that nobody would want to have sex with
them. That’s what we have to look forward to: a young nation of spaced-out,
paralytic 18 stone mingers, lying on their sofas in front of the TV with a
party-size bucket of KFC, forlornly yearning for a shag. This latest
shock-horror indication that the world is turning on its axis (“teenagers
like sex, drugs and alcohol and often have inappropriate role models”) comes
to us from the Independent Advisory Group on Sexual Health and HIV (IAG).
Aside from attacking young people for their hedonistic behaviour, it laments
that there is no “joined up government approach” to the problem.
So perhaps there is a future role for John Prescott - as a bluff, nononsense,
sex czar, one hand up the skirt of his secretary, the other firmly gripping
his croquet mallet. This is the problem - it is not just TV and pop stars
who have uncontrollable libidos these days. It is all of us - including,
I’ll bet, one or two members of the IAG. There are no suitable role models
any more.
- An organisation called the Cornwall National Liberation Army has promised
violence against the Padstow restaurateur Rick Stein and indeed his
customers. The CNLA did the trendy thing in wacko terrorist circles by
posting its threats on an Arabic website. Soon, perhaps, Al-Jazeera will
receive a badly shot video showing English people who’ve just enjoyed a nice
lobster bisque about to be decapitated by deranged, scimitar-wielding
yokels, angry that the economy west of the Tamar depends entirely upon the
beneficence of the rest of us. An offshoot of the CNLA once reportedly
placed broken glass beneath the sand on a Cornish beach, so that imperialist
English holidaymakers and fascist crabs might be maimed. Perhaps Stein
should mumble, in Cornish, a swift apology for two thousand years of
oppression and relocate to Devon.
because we, poltroon europeans, try to remain equidistant. We must decide where to stay. Only one of them will hate us! Don't you think?
Ciao
Giorgio , Milano, Italy
Victor from Manchester, I assume that your 'bodycount' theory refers principally to the thousands of dead in Iraq. I wonder, if we counted up the number of deaths caused by a Brit or American actually pulling a trigger/activating a detonator and compared it to the number killed by your 'boy scouts' doing likewise, would you be so sure of yourself? I didn't think so.
James, Monteria, Colombia
At last, someone stating the obvious.
Germaine, Bristol,
penelope boyce, london, England: "Lets not forget what 'democracy' in the Middle East means to the West, and thats draconian dictators we can manipulate and financially reward. "
Given that this seems to be exactly the same approach that the Islamic world uses themselves, we should be content that we're doing the right thing, eh Penelope?
The fact that Muslims murder other muslims en mass due to secular and tribal hatreds has nothing to do with the west and everything to do with the middle part of the east.
Dan, Hampton, UK
I think we are heading for a major clash of ideology that could result in catastrophic consequences. That is why the USA and other western countries are alarmed by Iran’s nuclear ambitions. Islamic influence is quickly spreading in many directions and is gathering pace. Many Muslims, even those living in Britain consider western society decadent and they have some justification. It may well lead to a major confrontation rather than the localised conflicts in Iraq/Afghanistan.
Jonathan Davies, Portsmouth, UK
Sarfaraz Marvani: You say that the arabs are a bit peeved because we shaped their region to our needs. Actually, it's them who did the shaping.
Arabs burst out of the peninsula and slaughtered their way to domination over the region killing Christians and forcing conversion in traditional Christian lands. Syria, Egypt, Lybia, Lebanon, northern Iraq and Turkey are all traditionally Christian and western. It's just that the Arabs murdered anyone who didn't agree with their view of their invisible friend in the sky.
We are the ones who should be peeved.
Paul Taylor, Prague,
honnestly I didn't read the article above, but I did read the comments, and why I should say is that all the problem remains in the way that it's seen, what I mean is that everyone has got a way to read between the lines and to understand the others, so americans should understand the arabs are different and also arabs should understand that americans are different each one comes from a different society has got different history and culture so the term of Democracy does'nt have the same definition in arabic as it's got in english, for the americans, I think, before the judge they should live in the arabic society with simple people who don't care about the policy or the politiciens, everybody knows that there are studies and researchs about the arabic world, but it's not enough, to understand the behaviour of a village must be trough out a living inside the village, and also to understand a book means to know its language, so how many english or americans speak arabic???????
amal, tangiers, morocco
We, the British people, will all have to bear the blame in the eyes of muslims for the decision to honour Mr Rushdie, which is a blatant provocation, and quite simply wrong. I thoroughly disagree with it, and by the way, yes, I have read the book, which is frankly lousy.
Since we now have been handed this problem, I believe we have the right to know exactly who is responsible for the decision and why it was taken.
Geoff Simmons, London, UK
Very sadly we, and Mr Liddle, simply do not have any idea of how different we all are and the amount of genuine offence we have caused to these people. The time frame in which we all live is different depending on the Social Spiritual and Economic growth of a society and we think we can impose our increasingly decadent deomcracy on these people who no longer have any respect for us because we no longer have any respect for them . Got it. Good.
John, Lisbon, Portugal
I think Arabs certainly mistrust the American administration. I don't think most groups hate us. They adopt western ideas readily. This is not new. But, we have never been fair power brokers or realy cared for the opinion of Arabs or their leaders. What do we expect. Democracy? Not for oil rich nations. The average person would never give up the perks seen in Saudi, Kuwait or the UAE, among others. The governments need to change slowly and corruption needs to be less obvious. Americans need to solve the Palestinian issue. But, outside of that, we have zero credibility.
Ali, Chicago, U.S.A.
Why
do you insist on repeating that outworn phrase" THEY HATE US"?
I travel thruout the world and except for a FEW radicals I hear nothing but admiration, with a little bit of envy now and then. That includes politicians.
Dickjanine
dickjanine, honomu, hawaii
There is no reason why the Iranians and Arabs should mistrust us and hate us. We have throughout the decades shaped their region to suit our needs, occupied their countries, killed scores of their people, imposed ‘democracy’ (anti western leaders need not apply), grab land and hand it to whom we please etc...After all we have done for them they still don’t like us and do not trust us. Talk about gratitude!
Sarfaraz Mavani, Peterborough, uk
This is an inciteful comment, I don't suppose this writer has ever lived amonst "Arabs & Iranians". No! Mr Liddle, we don't hate the West, we hate the governments of the west who have oppressed us through their support of oppresive governments here in the Mid East, for supporting Israel in an unjust and evil occupation, for killing innocent civillians in the name of freedom and democracy.
Your governments are corrupt, blood thirsty, oil thirsty zealots!
Mr Liddle should make a list of how many injustices his government/s have caused in the middle east and he will come to know why they are hated here.
Abdul Waheed, Cairo, Egypt
You accuse the Arabs and the Iranians to be blind when it comes to democracy. Please check both your eyes before judging others. The West was never considered a fair broker of democracy. The West outside their own borders and mainly when using their armies to solve big problems is a bully. To say it flat out they are a dictatorship with agents working in their name. Any country that was occupied was left with the wrong people running it, only to advance the interest of the occupier. This is what America is not able to do until now in Iraq. The West is not in a position to force feed American democracy. To do that those friends must become enemies. Arabs and Iranians will not change if they don’t change from within for their own good. Not an outside entity. May we all be blessed to live with each other in peace.
Mohamed, Abu Dhabi, U.A.E
Lets not forget what 'democracy' in the Middle East means to the West, and thats draconian dictators we can manipulate and financially reward.
We can't chose a 'democracy' for the Middle East, they'll never trust it; and judging by how our own leaders barely listened to a word the public said about not invading Iraq in the first place, who can blame them?
penelope boyce, london, England
Bill Jackson argues that Arabs & Iranians support Saddam and Khomeini because they "stand up to Israel".
Of what real relevance is Israel to the daily lives of the peoples of Iraq and Iran - or of any Arab state? Israel is used as an excuse for repressions from the Maghreb to the borders of Pakistan, despite having no engagement with these states whatsoever.
The reality is more simple. Arab (and the Iranian) regime do what despots of all sorts do - manufacture an exernal threat and demonise a group in order to excuse their own failures.
Bill further argues that Arab regimes are repressive only because of Western malfeasance. In which case, why are regimes with little or no engagement with the West not havens of democracy and good governance? How does he explain the nature of the regimes of Syria, or the Sudan, or Libya?
Arab regimes are rotten irrespective of western support. In which case, western malfeasance isn't the cause....
Andy Dawson, Crowthorne, Berks
OK, we've all got our hobby horses to ride over the Middle East, but the second item shouldn't be ignored. Four months is not a lot for trashing a man's reputation in just about the most devastating way conceivable. And it is particularly scandalous that we know this wholly innocent man's name.
A Norman, Berlin, Germany
As an Arab, I know nothing about Arabs hating 'us', whoever 'Rod Liddle'
means by 'us'. There are Arabs who hate western double-standards and who have had enough of being treated as an object which needs to be 'democratised', 'civilised', 'mandated', 'liberated', 'protected' and all the other terms which eventually means being 'occupied'.
Nobody actually democratised western countries but it came about only after long struggles. For a democracy to take root in the Middle East, it has to be developed by the people themselves. The best the West can do to aid such a process is to stop supporting Arab dictators, invading states and interfering in their internal politics by supporting one side or another according to their own narrow interests.
Dr Rim Turkmani
Dr Rim Turkmani, London, UK
the views of the ordinary voters out in arabland is to vote for the party most likely to destroy its neighbour and then, the west. destruction of israel and conquest is a clear mandate of hamas and hezbollah and the voters and poulation have given those views a big tick at the ballot box. we should understand the clear message that those voters have given their elected representatives and the world - a mandate to engage in genocidal conflict, though we should not under any circumstances tolerate it.
neil, sydney, aus
Can you please tell me, how exactly? Is a Spanish team winning their domestic league a great day for British sport? Your back page on Monday coupled Real Madrids' victory along with Lewis Hamilton’s magnificent back-to-back North American Formula One victories.
This sort of journalism is beneath your normally good paper and more at home with your tabloid sister. Very poor.
Edward McCourt, London,
Our mistake was not to think the Middle East wants democracy - but not to realise that so many are undeserving of the benefits it brings. Religious fanaticism and bigotry is so ingrained in their very lives and upbringing that they are incapable and unwilling to make the necessary sacrifices to bring democracy to their own people.
Graham, Woking, UK
Let us not foget what 'democracy' in the Middle East means to the West, and thats draconian dictators we can manipulate and financially reward.
We can't chose a 'democracy' for the Middle East, they'll never trust it; and judging by how our own leaders barely listened to a word their public said about not invading Iraq in the first place, who can blame them?
penelope boyce, london, England
Some shallow minded columnists, and Rod Liddle makes Melanie Phillips look intellectually heavy, need reminding that Democracy is an old idea but a young experience.
We stil have a house of nepotists in the UK Parliament and the first one-adult-one-vote election for the Commons was in 1950. Shouldn't Britian pay some attention to learning from older and proper democracies like Italy and India?
Alan Griffiths, Forest Gate/LONDON,
and with good reason too, our track record in the last century is hardly worth using as a currency of trust...
I do find it quite amusing when we in the west can describe groups in the Middle East as "homicidal fundamentalists", whilst at the same time re-electing messianic madmen (Blair/Bush) who with their body body count make the "fundamentalists" in the Middle East look like Boy Scouts.
So far our esteemed and non-homicidal leaders in the West have racked up a body count that puts any aspiring idiot in the Middle East to shame.
But hey, Blair feels "passionately" about his crusade and thats fine with us.
Victor, Manchester, UK
The culture in the Middle East - and its interpretation of Islam - is for the perpetuation of the "Comfortable Male" situation. The clerics are frightened stiff of the erosion of their male dominence & power. Hence their fear of the Western society. Remember - they hated us long before the USA was invented.
Phil, Preston,
Better that the Islamic terrorist organisations of Hamas and Fatah are killing each other than innocent Israelis. Pass the popcorn and pull me up an easychair; this is one prizefight marred only by the fact that only one of the participants can lose.
Tom, London, England
Of course we are distrusted by the Arabs and Iranians as the West has always viewed both groups as either supporters of terrorism or at least active objectors to the political and economic status quo in the Middle East.Most of the indigenous population of the area had no time for Saddam or Ayatollah Khomeini but saw them as lone figures standing up to Israel and therefore the US even if most of the time it was mere bombast and hyperbole.Anyone who has visited Jordan, ostensibly our friend, and Egypt, essentially a police state that welcomes rich tourists to view its antiquities, knows that freedom is in short supply.And why? Because these corrupt regimes are armed and aided by the US, Britain, France and others enabling a small elite to hold down the rest as they indulge themselves at our expense in return for helping to keep our airplanes aloft and our vehicles on our increasingly congested roads.
BILL JACKSON, Nottingham, uk
I recently spent 12 years working for an Arab company in the Middle East and was treated with great respect and friendliness. I do not know where your correspondent gets his ideas from, but there are fanatics everywhere, and many of them appear also to be in America and England where for the first time for many centuries torture and imprisonment without trial are making a come-back. These decisions to trim the law meet the personal whims of ministers is very dangerous as we are beginning to allow individuals to take matters into their own hands. That is a very slippery slope which we may one day regret!
Brian Lewis, Manila, Philippines
"the Arabs and the Iranians hate and mistrust us"
Can there be a more dangerous and inflammatory language than this? This classic and offensive sweeping generalisation covers some several hundreds of millions of people. And if by mistrust us Liddle includes the UK and the US goverments then he would have to include most of the population of the UK and US public. If he includes the mainstream media which he and this paper is a part then he can certainly include me.
Neil Rose, Walton on Thames,
Who can blame them, just look at your todays headlines, Israel to attack Gaza, to wipe out Hamas, more bloodshed to get rid of the truth.
Don't let us forget Israel's crimes, nor those of the terrorist Stern Gang.
USA's supports, Israel for many years now, we wonder why?
R.Smith, Alicante, Spain
"By and large, the Arabs and the Iranians hate and mistrust us and have no great appetite for liberal democracy".
This can't be more wrong. One should not mistaken the political agendas of extremists in power with the peacefull and sometimes liberal aspirations of the populations. Driving 4000 kms in Iran recently, I was stunned to realise how much its people like the US and the western culture. The jewish community is part of the national history and is respected for it. Iranians hate the regime but simply have no choice. Elsewhere, voters often give their support back to the most helpfull party, (ie Hezbollah in south Lebanon), far from anti US or anti jews considerations.
Arabs and iranians, (as though they were all the same) do not hate us, they'd rather need us!
Gilles, Paris, France
Now why do you suppose that is?
Andrew Milner, Yokohama, Japan
The biggest mistake we make in these "non pc days" is to ignore huge cultural differences, or worst, pretend they do not exist.
There is absolutely no chance of reconciliation between Fatah and Hamas.Not that it will be for lack of trying.
The centuries old "blood feud" mentality will prevent it.
A hundred years seperate Burton from Thesiger yet both saw and reported on it.
Until that changes, ie revenge as a automatic reaction, nothing in Palestien will alter.
Peter Bolt, Redditch, UK
I reckon you're right with your point that they don't want democracy. However, you might want to have a closer look at the roots and not just go down the 'in the end the West is to blame' track.
Christian, Melbourne, Australia
It is highly unlikely in any case, that even if Amy Jones had not confessed her lie, the step father concerned would have been prosecuted without any evidence available.
Sadly, I know of cases of childhood abuse over years where victims don`t even waste time reporting to police, they don`t want to relive the hell again and without firm evidence it`s the word of the abuser against the abused. Statistics available in no way reflect the real situation.
Martin , Sheffield,
"the Israelis - whom the world knows to be in the wrong in its occupation of the West Bank" BUT that occupation arose directly from " just as soon as they’ve exterminated one or another local enemy - -- and, of course, the Jews". Please do NOT overlook that in 1967 the Arabs massed to extermionate Israel and the Jews, thus resulting in Israeli victory and "occupation".
Jon, SYDNEY, Australia
Go ahead and give back the Falklands, THEN tell Israel to give up the West Bank, aka, the Jewish Extermination Forward Staging Platform.
Johnston Burgess, Clemson, USA
No Natan. Only when true religion is restored, a religion of the heart, not dead, cancerous ones that have become little more than cults, dangerous ones at that, obsessed by writings and personal history, and where buildings are, or aren't, or ought to be sited, will there be any hope, either for yours, mine, or anyone else's benighted land. Indeed, they know not what they do.
Robert, London, England
Hezbollah, Hamas, Iran and Israel
While Hezbollah and Hamas strengthen everyday more tightly their Faith and Certitude for an endless Muhammadan fight, one does not need to be a genius in ideology politics, in history, and in knowledge of religion collective psychology, to realize that, ONLY, ONLY, when the TEMPLE of JERUSALEM is restored in its full splendour on its authentic Site (which is located DOWNSTREAM of the Haram), no ONE Moslem (or other) will still be able (or dare) to deny the Jews the right to Israel, and to launch, generation after generation, relentless onslaught to wipe off the Jewish State.
See at www.jerusalem-4thtemple.org : the irrefutable Scientific Study of the antique TEMPLE Hydraulic System - which has been miraculously preserved, to this very day, in the rocky underground of the Esplanade of the Mosques (Haram) in Jerusalem (and which can be checked by any one).
By the way and incidentally, there is not the least proof that the last pseudo-discovery is the Tomb of Herod : Israel deserves better than media-fantasy Archaeology !
Natan, Jerusalem, Israel