Both France and Britain are about to change their leaders. The French will do
so by ballot, the British by bistro.
The French are staging a raucous two-ring circus to elect their new president,
involving a first vote today and another in two weeks’ time. The British
have already been told who is to lead them. It was ordained 13 years ago by
Tony Blair and Gordon Brown in the Granita restaurant in Islington, north
London. Blair would be prime minister first provided he ensured Brown would
follow him.
In never moving Brown from the security of the Treasury and packing the
cabinet with wimps and half-wits, Blair has been as good as his word,
despite regarding Brown as unworthy of the office. The voters can get
stuffed. While France practises the politics of Wilkes, Paine and Mill,
Britain borrows from Louis XIV.
Modern elections are festivals of indecent exposure. They display politicians
in all their nakedness and in doing so reveal much about the countries they
purport to lead. The French election has been no exception. It has not been
a pleasant spectacle for Brussels oligarchs or Americans who like to lump
all Europeans together as homogeneous. It has peeled away the skin and shown
France worried, vulnerable, proud, vital, stylish and unlike anywhere else —
in other words, French.
Two years ago the French (and the Dutch) did Europe a signal service by voting
against a new European constitution. They thereby relieved Britain of the
necessity of doing the same. We forget how those referendums shattered
Labour’s establishment. Peter Hain, now running for Labour’s deputy
leadership, deceitfully called the new constitution merely “a tidying up
operation”. Peter Mandelson, Neil Kinnock and Jack Straw sat around after
the French vote like Roman cardinals contemplating Luther’s Reformation,
glumly demanding a “period of sober reflection”. José Manuel Barroso,
president of the European commission, declared a “risk of contagion” across
Europe if the referendums continued. The French and Dutch should vote again
and do so “until they get it right”. Only in Brussels is democracy
considered a disease.
The French vote was, of course, peculiar. The vote against the new
constitution was not (as it would have been in Britain) because it was too
centralist and corporatist. The French “no” lobby’s case was that Europe was
becoming too liberal, too open-market and thus threatening France’s
cartelised public sector and restrictive labour laws. Worse, an expanded
Europe would put French jobs at the mercy of east Europeans. France,
co-founder of the new Europe, now rejected its pan-Europeanism. It was a
reactionary vote but it worked. Indeed it may be called in aid again if the
Anglo-German plan to revive the constitution as “just a treaty” goes ahead.
Blair, eager for some European credentials before he retires, will argue
that a treaty would need no referendums and can be slipped through before
Brown takes over. Of course Europe needs a new constitution/ treaty, but not
this one and not without a vote.
A similar chauvinism has been reflected in the election campaign. The contest
between Nicolas Sarkozy and Ségolãne Royal has only superficially displayed
the new politics, where personality and vision are all and policy programmes
unimportant. The right-wing Sarkozy’s desire to “get France back to work” is
closest to Britain’s Thatcherite consensus, but Thatcherism is not something
he would dare advocate. The left-wing Royal is corporatist, conservative and
protectionist. She is pledged to maintain the 35-hour week, state benefits
and guarantee employment and housing tenure, despite their contribution to a
devastating 22% youth unemployment rate.
Both these candidates, along with the centrist François Bayrou, share a
nationalism which, to outsiders, seems old-fashioned and Gaullist. Nervous
about immigration, passionate for the public sector and defensive of the
state, they could not be farther from the reform programmes being sought in
Germany, Scandinavia and Britain.
None of them would suggest opening French agriculture to world competition.
None would hint at multiculturalism in a country whose southern shores are
besieged by Muslim and north African migrants. None would attack the scale
of the public sector, which still owns or controls all public utilities and
has half of all adults dependent on it. One of Sarkozy’s final rallies was
in a boiler-making plant where he pledged to protect French manufacturing
against foreign competition.
This conservatism evokes the derision of Britons eager to repay the smugness
that France hurled at us during the horrors of the 1970s. They point to the
30,000 French who pour into Britain looking for work each year, drawn by a
more open and dynamic economy. It takes two days to set up a company in
Britain, three months in France. From the Huguenots and the Orléanists to
the Communards and the resistance, Britain has long been accustomed to
accepting refugees from France’s political and military disasters. Today
critics cite French businessmen building factories in Kent. They see Paris
declining into a sort of Venice on dry land, industries awash in subsidies
and stuck in the doldrums, French culture perpetually “en crise”.
Yet such derision rarely turns over the coin. It does not mention that more
Britons now migrate to France than vice-versa (42,000 in 2005). They are
drawn by the quality of life that attracts 7.3m British holidaymakers a year
and 50,000 British second-home owners. There are few French pleasure seekers
pouring the other way. France takes seriously the protection of its urban
and rural environment. It values civic life: witness the cleanliness,
security and confidence of municipalities there compared with Britain’s.
Public services work. France’s trains run far and fast. Towns and cities,
parks and museums are beautiful — as are even motorway service stations. The
public realm in France has taste and bravura. In Britain it is grotty,
largely because it is under the aegis of Whitehall and Westminster.
Europeans used to fight to get into Britain’s NHS hospitals. Not any more.
Today the flight from these demoralised, MRSA-ridden places to France’s
immaculate hospitals is becoming a flood. When last year Jacques Chirac
warned that to pursue British policies risked having to accept Britain’s
quality of life, his audience laughed. The risk was unthinkable.
A recent study of Anglo-French relations, That Sweet Enemy by Robert and
Isabelle Tombs, delighted in the implacable polarity of these two cultures.
It stretches back and forward through centuries of conflict to such piquant
contrasts as the British official complaining that something “might work in
theory but not in practice” while a French counterpart complains that “it
might work in practice but not in theory”. Did not Sir Humphrey in Yes,
Minister inform the baffled Jim Hacker that Britain’s nuclear missiles were
targeted not on Moscow but on Paris? Have not the Royal Navy’s bases always
faced the French coast and not Germany or the Atlantic?
This is all good clean fun. Where it becomes less attractive is when British
comment on other countries takes as its basic premise that they would be
better off if only they were run like Britain (or America). The depiction of
Chirac as an absurd Bourbon prince may have had a grain of truth in it, but
Chirac ran France as the French desired, as did François Mitterrand and
other presidents before him. Hence his constant capitulation to pressure
from the unions and farm lobbies, irrespective of France’s hypocritical
claim to be “a good European”.
Protectionism is, in every sense of the word, part of the French character. It
is the privilege of a sovereign state, as it is the right of its citizens to
choose and pay for it.
A casualty of globalisation has been a growing intolerance of political
diversity, diversity not just of national personality but also of ideology,
political priority and system of government. I may not share France’s view
of the world and may believe it wrong to deny the Thatcherite reformation,
as in varying degrees do all today’s candidates. But as Voltaire, the
greatest of Frenchmen, insisted, the right that most needs defending is the
right to be wrong.
On this day of the French election, long live difference.
simon.jenkins@sunday-times.co.uk
Good article, despite an ill informed comment: setting up a business in France actually takes only a few days, and most forms can be downloaded through the internet.
Clem, Toulouse, France
Mr Jenkins, I do like hearing your pertinent comments on the BBC World "Dateline London" - but so rarely - Hoping you will be present this afternoon !
rosamund, paris, france
Simon Jenkins ignores the troubles in France. Schools, shops and synagogues firebombed - neighbourhoods of cities where it is not safe to go - a 10% vote for Le Pen's Front National. It would be better to look at the whole picture han to idealise.
Jack Shulman, Kent.
jack shulman, Maidstone, U.K.
France is a great country-we all know it- but France is in crossroad; more than ever before , now they have to toss a coin and see what is next. Socialist by soul, Capitalist by hedonism . But they are very nationalistic with chauvinistic undertones , and this is the key factor; Will they prefer Sarkozy-almost an "etranger"-to the ecumenical Ms Royale ? Sure they do not like be at such position. This time is difficult for them, they will be exposed.
Leoncio Otoya, Dundas Valley, NSW
i returned to engand from france after 4 years..........
50% return from france , spain etc for a variety of reasons
yes Uk has it;s problems butthe above comments show we are not alone.
But least we forget......
france was an occupied country during ww2 approx 50% agreed to 'self rule' under german occupation...FEw actually were in the resisitance and by saying differently belittles those 'few' who did fight
as for the racist comment re US individuals getting involved in this debate -their forefathers helped to make this posssible .......just visit the war graves.........
an englisman
mike, oxford, england
Two things: What benefits it a man if he gains the world but loses his soul? and
Because you value your country and its way of life does not mean that you have to turn your back on common sense and good business practices.
Still, nothing is as dire as it might seem as portrayed by the media. You can still get a good pint in England ...and if you want a job in France you can get one, I'm sure.
What I can't understand is how a wonderful country like France (and Sweden and Spain and Norway, among others) still doesn't want to play the greatest game in the world when they have all the qualities to play nit to perfection.
Mike Parsley, Malaga, Spain
France is a great country i like it very much,if the french wish to subsidise the entire nation thats ok with me but they must be prepared to finance it themselves,eventually no one will buy their output because it costs too much,also the french are divided almost equally between left and right which led to their easy defeat in 1940 despite being the larger army ,the great threat to france is its muslim community who,s first loyalty is to islam not france,the left and right should unite (they will have to eventually) to save france from becoming muslim,or they will have to fight a tragic civil war to decide who,s boss
c thompson, orpington, england
Sowers, please, resist the temptation to share your comments. We americans already look stupid enough. Idiotic comments like yours do nothing to restore what credibility, if any (after electing a moron twice), may remain
Tom, West Palm Beach, FL
Shame about the bits on the EU constitution. They detract from the article. There is nothing "undemocratic" about submiting a modified treaty to the electorates - this is done routinely in Parliaments for laws throughout the democratic world every week.
Also, remember that the version of the the EU constitution people rejected was the one that Tony Blair championed - a minimalist bureaucratic treaty - not that championed by Jacques Chirac (a version which was much more Federalist). It would have been much more interesting if both versions had been put to the electorates to make their decisions.
Paul, Dublin, Ireland
These comments largely seem to be a difference of opinion about whether it is better to be able to take responsibility for your own standard of living (England) or to have your standard of living decided by someone else (France).
I vote for the former as I own property and work in the city. If I could not afford to buy a house and lived outside of London I might prefer to be given a 35 hour job by the state from which I could not be sacked. Whether my children and grandchildren would thank me for that I doubt as my slacking (which is exactly what it would be) would have to be paid for eventually. Great for those "adults" living the life of Reilly, but future generations will I think marvel at the lifestyle of modern day France.
Gareth, London,
Mr Jenkins is normally the first thing I read in the Sunday Times as I value his astute and concise take on the news of the week. Unfortunately, he seems to have left this behind to sup a glass of chablis and cast rose tinted eyes over the channel. His view of France is similar to many of the middle class who visit there from the UK, in that his experience is of fast trains, fine food and pleasant parks. It is not, however, an adequate viewpoint to investigate the problems that are troubling France and that are not going to get any better until massive change is inflicted on both a self-serving governing elite and also a population (including the British immigrants) who are fed milk and honey to keep quiet. The problems of the UK and France are completely different (one has deteriorating eduction while the other has no jobs for their young, for example) but please, Mr. Jenkins, let's not pretend that the beggars on the metro, the filthy toilets and the troubled suburbs don't exist.
Carl, London, UK
What is this talk about 'difference' between Britain and France all about?I don''t think this comparism can hold a glass of water when viewed to the angle of the French.I live in Africa but I have gone through the mills to study much about the French lifestyle and the British.The French are simply on the top of the mount here because their way of life is about the pursuit of happiness for all...What else will a man with a mind want???Unlike the British who projects the 'class war' in terms of it's welfare to both it's citizens along with strigent conditions to hope-filled immigrants where nobody gives you milk in teaspoon.Sometimes it makes me wonder if these men(Blair & his allieds) really pull their pants the way we do over here in Africa.More lubricant to your gears- France, but be mindful of the direction your new elected president will peddal the wheels of your economic mainstay to !!!!
Aimmy, Benin, Nigeria
These days it is important to distinguish between a nation that is nothing more than a geo-political market place; operating behind a worn and tattered fascade of history and a nation that strives to operate according to the principles of a community; elegantly wearing its culture and heritage. You can make a lot of money at the market place but it is only within the community that you have a chance to achieve a meaningful life. If part of the price in maintaining one's humanity is to wait three months (instead of two days) for a business permit, then I'll pay that price with a good Bordeaux in my glass.
Marc Hanna, West Yellowstone, Montana
Just the fact that Chirac and the French defied the United States and Britain in the matter of Iraq makes France holy to me, and it will stay that way for the rest of my life
James Zemboy, Detroit, Michigan, USA
I moved to rural France 2 years ago with my young family. My kids will grow up playing in the (sunny) great outdoors in an environment where violent crime is literally unheard of. They will be raised on wonderful food by stress-free parents enjoying a superb quality of life, and learn the value of the family unit. At school, they will be taught the value of discipline, as well as proper numeracy and how to spell.
Compare and contrast with the UK.
As for the state of the economy that they will emerge into when they are 18, I feel we have to look a little more towards the foundations on which it is built to see what it will be like in 2020:-
France still owns most of its own companies, still has a manufacturing industry, produces its own (wonderful) food, has low levels of personal debt, and has a roughly neutral balance of payments.
Compare and contrast with the over-inflated debt-based property bubble that is the UK economy.
I think I've made the right decision for my children.
Jon Leigh, Southern, France
Me think Jenkins knows very little about France appart from some fond holidays memories. As a resident in France, and I may say a fancophile, France cannot continue as it is because sooner or later the money will run out. Anglo saxon progmatism perhaps, but the truth nevertheless.
Jason White, Paris,
Some commentor asks: 'why are so many French then working in the UK'. As an immigrant from another high qualit of life country, it's easy to explain: Unlike the rest of Europe, wage gaps between high earners and low earners in the UK are huge. So if you have a degree and some experience, the UK is the European country to be to make money. Ridiculously high wages in certain sectors and low taxes. Come to the UK for 5-10 years, live frugally (don't buy overpriced houses or basically anything else), and move out again to enjoy life. Really, my approach is: grab the money and run. I'm always surprised when coming back to the UK about how low the quality of living is (dirty public transpot, small houses, overpriced shops), but then you say: continue working in the UK for another couple of years, and return home rich. Who is loosing: the UK and its inhabitants: I don't spend here and I don't invest here. And that the Uk has a large underclass is reall not my problem: Grab the money and run!
stephane, Birmingham,
The French are lucky... live the life of a Duke... on nice trains even. And to top that off--they may get a "smokin--hot" Prez. I'd watch her press conferences.
Our candidates include an ill-tempered Dutch--water dam, that has more Jones than her "husband", and roundheaded (like Charlie Brown--not the British kind), that is eager to make the US a morally corrupt, debt-ridden (more than it already is), zombie citizenfied nation. And a black guy, that you don't know who the Hades he really is. On the other side of the aisle you have geriatric cross-dressing mayor, and someone who is controlled by a puppet master, like a harlequin street performer in front of the Louvre.
Can I emigrate to France as a political refugee? Please? Sil vouz pla--- ahh I'll work on the French.
Thaco Bell, S. Paris, Maine
Hello, I would like to react after your south carolina's reader Nick Sowers comment.
This is the typical reaction of someone completely driven by the medias.... Nick, France lost the WW2 in a frst time and so what ? Most of the French people never stopped fighting (the Resistance). You are so bitter with France because we did not accept US false accusation about Irak, and we did not accept to follow US in a war which was clearly designed to serve US interests. And most important, France showed the world that it is still possible to remain independant from the US.
But don't get it wrong, we know what we owe to USA for the WW2... but it does not mean we have to be US's lapdog for the rest of our days.
So Nick do not fall into these false and ridiculous clichés, because it gives your country such a pituous image...
And this is so kind to worry for us, but it is OK we do not need your special protection to prevent terror on our territory !
Nicolas, Lyon, France
Great article - especially the part on Brussels cardinals and their demand that the citizens of Europe vote as requested.
Just a few remarks:
Not all French voted against the EU Constitution because they found it "too liberal, too open-market and thus threatening France’s cartelised public sector ." Many of us, who want a more free market policy and and less privileges for the public servants, voted "NON" for a simple reason: We just read the Constitution draft. And we realized how unconsistent, self-contradictory, political-correctness infected, non-democratic this project was.
Our only regret was that the Brits and Germans were not given a chance to reject it too in a referendum, to make things even clearer in the eyes of the Bruxellocrats.
As for British trains, I can only say that the one I took from London to Scotland, last Summer, was perfect. Certainly much better than the "trains de banlieue" that Paris commuters board every day - when they are not on strike.
Yves, Paris,
Good God! What has happened to The Times! You used to be a Newspaper of Record, like the Daily Telegraph or The NY Times. Instead I get a screed: very left-wing, anti-American, and very pro-French. In short, the usual European drivel.
As an American, this needs to be said: The ONLY reason France still exists is that they were able to fool us twice into fighting the Germans for them. The US had no business being in World War I, and World War II (the not-so-cheap but still cheap-styled Hollywood-type Sequel) happened only because of the French occupation of the Ruhr in 1922-3. So the "Froggies" are sponging off us, just like they are sponging off the Germans and you Brits. The country is clearly living on borrowed time and deceiving everyone about it and something will give eventually. Then the 5th Republic will go the way of Republics Nos. 1-4, Two Empires, A Directory, a Consulate, a Restored Monarchy, a July Monarchy, and a verihost of Provisional governments.
Thomas Engel, Belmont, USA, Mass.
I meant hear hear. And vive la france.
anna meister, sydney, Australia
I lived in both London and Paris for 3 years each and nothing can compare to the deep sense of hopelessness I felt in a British society defined by centuries of entrenched class difference and the opression of one man by another. I felt I was in the Third World. The general gloominess rampant in dog eat dog London was so depressing that I escaped as often as possible to Paris where the wonderful sense of people power gives dignity to the streets and keeps imagination and culture aflame in the common man's heart. And that tide of public passion buoys the spirits of the nation. The end result of cold and heartless capitalism is a slave trade devoid of joy. And who invited Americans into this conversation. Please put your blinkers back on and go away.
anna meister, sydney, Australia
Here here Brian from Los Angeles and I take back what I said previously about Americans because here is one who sees through the systemic lies.
The ugly side of Britain is that its hard and pitiless society is the end result of centuries of class difference, and the sad part is that the rest of the Western world- particularly America and Australia, are greedily and thoughtlessly following along in the race to be prefects in a joyless old boys' hierarchy.
anna meister, sydney, Australia
The French are also the second most productive people in the world slightly behind the americans. The French economy needs to injects some flexibility in its labor laws. Noone said the reforms will be an easy task. The rest is just fine in France. The comments from your reader from South Carolina are so typical of what we read or hear in the US about France. Fox news is doing a good job ! this generation unfortunately is so poorly informed. Fox News will never mention the fact that France from the beginning sent 2000 troops in Kabul. I was just watching a report on France24 in which a US aircraft commander was complimenting the work of a French task force sailing along with him in the war on Terror in Afghanistan. Dont wait for Fox News to tell you that . But again dont tell Bill O'Reilly that "My Way" (The song) is also french ! He will stop singing !
Claudia, San Francisco, CA
Dear Mr. Jenkins,
You have stirred quite a controversy with your article, and I am quite surprised and impressed with the interest generated oustide of France with this election.
I have lived and worked oustide of France (mostly in Asia) since I graduated, about 18 years ago.
I go back once a year and enjoy my time in the countryside where I was raised (300 people in this tiny village).
Not much has changed since I left which both re-assuring as a vacationer and scary for a 40 years old who more and more now feels like settling back home. I am full of a rich experience and I have made businesses successful abroad. With everything I read and hear, I am just wondering whether I would be able to achieve the same in my homeland too?
Jean Christophe COUBAT, Beijing, CHINA
I say,
VIVA LA FRANCE!!!!!!!!! My home! I can't wait to get back.
Goodbye Bush...Goodbye USA...Hello, Royale...I hope.
Janice Le Milin, Pensacola, USA Florida
The French are going through a process of change, a gradual adoption of globalisation and its flattening of cultural differences proudly held.In most instances gradual change is preferable and if the French can achieve this and at the same time enjoy the produce of their gardens, then Vive la dfference.
Chris Chittenden, Midhurst, UK
I have to agree with Simon Jenkins in the simple fact that the French care about their country and quality of life whereas successive governments in Britain are selling out the country more each year. The old adage 'when in Rome' is actually practiced by the French and rightly so and most Brits who move there embrace their culture and do not want a British ghetto no matter how highly priced. Britain is the only country in Europe whose government has abandoned any pretence of maintaining British traditions and culture and we can see the result every day of the week. Unlike France, minority groups have hijacked the political process in Britain and the majority are now in the minority. Quality of life, health care, food, education, binge drinking & teenage pregnancies all demonstrate the failures of the past ten years and the reason why so many 'true Brits' are now ex pats embracing other cultures after having lost their own.
Mike, Denia, Spain
I agree totally with Matt from Guernsey, the market -first political economy of the US/UK is great for creating untold wealth for a few while putting the rest of the population under constant stress and pressure, but the French way of living a life for its own sake is more admirable and humane to me.
If you already have it figured out that your not invited to sit at the table in the front of the room, you might as well settle for a dignifed life and enoy the simpler pleasures, earning your way as you go, but not having unrealistic expectations that constantly keep you on the edge of "their" chair. What they are doing here to people is so wrong.
The social costs of the US system are huge in my opinion requiring the sacrifice of individuality, personal dignity, and adequate rest in the pursuit of more money. But for most of us they simply take back the money through pushing consumerism and taxes so its all an illusion and we have the media machine to sell it.
Brian, Los Angeles,
It is all very well saying that more British people are going to France than French people coming here. The problem is that it is mainly young people from France which are coming here. They are the lifeblood of the future France and without them to keep on paying their taxes France will not be able to pay their pension bill in the future.
Toby, London,
It seems to me the grass is definitely greener on the other side of the fence!
Indeed, It is rather strange that - as a Frenchman living in France but a frequent visitor to Britain - my perception of Britain should be so strikingly similar to Simon Jenkins' view of France - and also to some readers' comments: clean parks and cities, efficient - and not smelling of urine - London underground network, polite/civilised people walking/driving.
But all this is mere trifle compared to the so-called "French model", which sadly comes at a cost - high unemployment, a crumbling GDP, a costly and bloated public sector where Stalin-era trade unions rule supreme and - above all - the widespread opinion that should the Government in charge pass a bill you do not approve, all you have to do is take to the streets and smash some shop windows to get the bill removed!
France and the UK have been taking opposite routes for the last thirty years: easy to guess which is going from global to parochial!
taxhaven, Paris, France
Jenkins, when were you last in France? We just got back from a 7 day visit. to the Cote d'Azur. Congestion dreadful, public transport dreadful. decaying towns, massive crime rate, and unbearable polution.
I am sorry to say it, but this article is uninformed bad wind.
John G Hartley, London,
Clark, Geneva
"It's good if you have a job and are in the system.
Not quite so lovely if you are not. such as illegal immigrants. Note the soup kitchens at Sangatte."
And that's just as it should be!
A civilised and well managed country should never harbour them in the first place but, of course, the French tolerate the situation because they know that these scavengers are merely en route to the carrion lying 20 miles away that was once Britain. It's amazing how far the smell of rotting flesh carries.
steve, birmingham,
Problem with all this Mr Jenkins is that you have not addressed the major problem in France: unempoyment. I have had a home in France since 1991 and have lived there permanently since 2001. My partner is French and currently unemployed. We live in the Gard. She is a juriste by profession. Can she find work? no way. She is more or less prevented from applying for other work by her lack of a suitable diplome. There is a job going in the village for a waiter or waitress but the restaurant owner feels compelled only to emply someone with a diplome to wait at table. If she tries for a job as a secretary, same problem. She and her daughter came to London with me over the New Year and loved it. Including especially the immaculate Tate museum. They also thought Canterbury was wonderful and loved the shopping (shops being open to suit the consumer). And when I told her that within one week of my son returning from Australia he had found well paid work, she knows who is best off.
fred, st michel deuzet, france
Simon Jenkins' article is almost total nonsense and a kind of "A Year in Provenmce" view of France taken by middle-class English people who only ever visit France on holiday. Nowhere does he mention the banlieues overrun by the "racaille" to use Sarkozy's vogue word which has now become a commonplace in the French political vocabulary. He contrasts those who leave Britain to go to France with those who go the other way yet he fails to mention the reasons. French people come here because of higher unemployment in France, a sign of a failing economy. British people go to France because of higher property prices here, a sign of a rising economy. Most of the French people who come here are young and seeking to make money. Most of the British people who emigrate to France are middle-aged or older and have already made theirs. Once again the French economy is the loser. The democratic deficit between the elite and the electorate, found throughout the Eu, is at its most profound in France.
Allan Draycott, London, United Kingdom
Why is the Sun, the Times, And so many English columnists so critical and manichean about France? It seems to me that most English people living here do not regret it. A lot of French people go to England to work, a lot of English people (not Brits, English) come here to live... A lot of French people, right or left don't think the future of humanity lies in working more and producing more, and I dare say this might be true for Britain. But the media like to portray us as being so different. There might be more politicians speaking out against the liberal free enterprise binge here, but
I don't think you can give a real view of it with a hanful of clichés.
As for food in France (to J. Fletcher), I agree, pub food is great. But there is not much to be compared. People in France don't eat out as much, the culture's different. Food is at home, eating slowly from 13h to 21h00 in the garden, that's because we have time, we don't work much. A bunch of idlers.
cloiseau, meung sur loire, France
The problem is the French whine and complain about access to the US and other European markets but want to have protectionism on their own. Additionally they want to push their ideas and way of life onto the world through the United Nations. America looks to protect Europe including France from terroists and evil regimes. America should no longer stand behind France when attacks come, instead we should let them surrender to Muslim extremests. After all they are very good at surrendering.
Nick Sowers, Myrtle Beach, South Carolina
Britain surely needed a Thatcher but this country seems still driven by her ideology. To sum up, neoliberalism is so.. 80's.
Lee, Paris, France
When is the Sunday Times Rich List available?Is it a secret?
Richard Lord, London,
Simon Jenkins has hit on something very important - the British now know how to run a successful economy but have a pretty shoddy quality of life, whereas the French value their far superior quality of life despite a less dynamic economy.
So, the French may come here to work, but we go there to play and enjoy oursleves.
What puzzles me is that many people, including Mr Jenkins, continue to advocate the market-first politico-economic policies that have turned the UK into an unplesant place which knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
The French would be wise to steer well clear of the American/British model at this election, and to continue to protect the "French way".
Matt, Guernsey,
Clark, Geneva, Switzerland
Well, but that's what the article says. It's a thing called Democracy, the peoples' votes, not the corporations'. Nobody says life in France is perfect. But the French insist on having their say. If we, Germans, British, Americans, Swiss, succumb to the idea that "what's good for the"economy" is good for us", the French don't. "What's good for us, is good for France."
And we have people sleeping under bridges as well.
doro, Zurich, Switzerland
If France is a theme park (Martin from Notts) then so be it. It seems that the Brits don't want to live in the UK and haven't really wanted to for a long time - even before 1997. Is there any country in the western EU with as many of its citizens living overseas?
Escaping the UK to live in the English speaking dominions or more recently the Costas has been long a British national sport.
Alan, Glasgow, UK
France dealt with its class division, Britain did not. Too many in the UK are on low skill low age jobs, too many others benefit from hereditary privelege. And there is no shared vision.
But like the US and race, people of the UK never want to discuss class.
Pablo, Edinburgh, Scotland
John (Brussels) is right. Neither country has a monopoly of good practice. They have high unemployment, we have too many people of invalidity benefit. They have good intercity rail services, but local train services are not much better than ours. They have a better health service, but it costs far more than the state can afford and it is grossly wasteful (it is still too easy for hypochorndriacs to flit from one GP - and even consultant - to another and make the state pick up the bill, and whenever you wait in line in a French chemist's you're staggered at the number of drugs people who look quite healthy are able to collect on prescription). And whereas in the days before Elizabeth David the UK was a gastronomic disaster zone, now you're just as likely to get decent French cuisine in England than in France. Swings and roundabouts, surely!
J. Fletcher, Canterbury, UK
Not resident in Nottingham, Durham, or Clitheroe, but an Englishman living in one of the much maligned Parisian suburbs for the past 12 years it is obvious that I bow to the superior insight of my native commentators.
I may have gone ‘native’, and no country or society is perfect, but Jenkins’ assessment is balanced and fair.
What is marginally interesting is how the English, and Americans for that matter, get so wound up about the French. I don’t quite understand this passion to remake France in the image of the U.K.
Nick Moore, Saint Ouen, France
French public services, especially transport and hospitals, may well be amongst the world's best and superior to those in Britain - but for how long? What Simon Jenkins neglects to mention is the fact that since the French economy is refusing to grow, in a nation that has grown accustomed to exceptionally high standards, these services are now being financed by an enormous national debt. Whoever wins the elections, it is now only a matter of time before the choice that faced Britain in the 1970s of painful reform, cuts to services, or economic apocalypse, will also be a reality for the French.
Michael, London UK,
John Albert in Lisbon, has said it all.
Gerry Wilson, Bangor, UK
James, London, England
That is the most astute comment I have seen on the subject, and I absolutely agree with you.
Trevor, Pampanga, Philippines
Really ??? Well the dream isnt going to last long. How will France fund these state handouts in future? Its debt is soaring and its workers are lazy and dont work much ? Where is the money to live that nice life ?
Ash, guildford, UK
"Public services work. France’s trains run far and fast. Towns and cities, parks and museums are beautiful — as are even motorway service stations etc.."
Mr Jenkins appears to have a rather rose tinted view of France. I spend a great deal of time there and could be described as a reluctant francophile. However only a fool could possibly believe France's much vaunted train network is value for tax payer's money. Try taking a train and not going through the Paris hub! Rail services are actually quite poor. As for parks etc being better run, I can point you to any number of inner cities to disprove this. The health service has major difficulties. In short the state is not doing the business for France as it should. Business is certainly not performing. Service stations have actually been overtaken by their British counterparts! One wonders whether Mr Jenkins is rehashing old stereotypes. His analysis certainly does not correspond with my and many other's experience of France.
Evo, Suffolk, UK
The French run their country with the benefit of their citizens in mind. The UK runs itself with the benefit of everyone else in mind. Turkish membership to the EU anyone? Frenchies say Non whilst the English say it will help build a bridge between cultures yada yada yada.
Scott, Solihull,
If France is so wonderful perhaps Simon Jenkins can explain why it is that more than 300,000 French citizens live and work in the Greater London area? Answer: according to a National Public Radio report in the USA , there is no work for middle class professionals so they come to the UK where they are easily assimilated because of their qualifications.
With unemployment rampant in France and stultifying laws on the books that restrict the movement of labor it is probably hard for the French to take a holiday in their own country!!!
Mike Pearson, Tampa, USA
A very good article, just spoilt by the Europhobic remarks.
If the English learnt to play the European game, the English could have it just as good.
But no the English (media at least) keep turning towards the US, as if the US cares about us..
The English are in the same European garden of paradise as the French, but the English are too proud or sad to enjoy it.
Peter GODDARD, LE ROURET, France, EU
I would rather have the problems of France than the increasing and potentially catastrophic problems of the U.K The French still know who they are while we have lost our national identity and England at least is no longer a place for the English..
John Albert , Lisbon, Portugal
The French don't get it. Certainly their public-services are better than the UK's, but. Napoleon derided Britain as a nation of shopkeepers. Since Walpole's time Britain has been a chaotic nation of wealth-creation. It's not pretty, it produces casualties but it has created two empires (the first in the west the second in the east) and is now moving on to create a third in global finance and culture.
The much vaunted world of good public-services belong to the age of paternalism. In the information age individuals (not all by a long shot but the majority) can sort out their own requirements. Let's face it the best health care comes out of a fruit and veg shop!
The British approach has lasted 300 years and counting. The French 50 and struggling.
It shouldn't work in theory but it does in practice.
eddie reader, birmingham, uk
Nice comparison between Britain and France government and people. Surprising to note that French come for jobs in UK and British go/settle in France to spend their earnings. It is a good complementary relationship.
However, both nations suffer from immigrations of different types including the illegal one. This has resulted in diverse population and is creating turmoils of various kinds. Are the citizens willing to accept them or would prefer to restrict immigrations is serious question, which can't be avoided for long?
Regards,
Krishna R. Kumar, Udupi, India
Having travelled around the globe recently, the UK looked rather special when we returned, except for the mess Blair has made, over crowding, yobbos, stealth tax.
I am envious the way France is run, no interference in other peoples wars, they get on with improving their own doorstep to a high and picturesque standard, lack of vandalisim. We saw decorated Christmas trees along public paths outside peoples houses, not one bauble was removed.
England could and should be pampered like France, through fresh eyes I saw a glimpse of the spectacular histronic Island we have, lets stop the governments wicked vandalism and return our country to a green and pleasant land.
Barbara Steward, Corbridge, England
One of the most illuminating moments of the BBC's coverage of the election was the Dijon farmer who, predictably enough said "I could never give up my subsidies" but then, instead of saying "I would go out of business" said "I could not afford to pay my taxes".
It was illuminating for me because, although the basic point is obvious, it shows that the French themselves also accept that it's foreign money that's directly funding the "French" social model.
Perhaps if we had the CAP and Airbus gazillions pouring straight into the NHS, it would work too?
Ian Kemmish, Biggleswade, UK
As a long term continental resident I am now more conscious of the similarities between the mentailities of the French and British people. However, French politicians mean what they say about preserving the French quality of life, whereas the British government simply does not have the passion to pursue this line and merely pays lip service to a concept that it no longer understands or values. Yet in both countries the people are mistrustful of politicians, and yearn for change.
John, Brussels,
France still knows how to plan for the future. They will soon start building their new generation of nuclear power stations.
It will be generating electricity when we are holding the London Olympics. When the east London wind turbine is stationary over the running track, French imports mean that we will still be able to operate so that Ken Livingstone will not have to ask the spectators to go home until the wind blows again.
Paul , Northwich, england
Yes indeed life in France can seem wonderful (I live here and there are moments of feeling lucky) but the French youth have no hope for the future. For me this is absolutely catastrophic - both of my children have chosen to live elsewhere. Unemployment is a cancer eating away at French society.
Alan , Lyon, France
France is a great theme park so of course we go there on holiday.
I might even buy a holiday home there too because it is admittedly very quaint.
Quaintness comes at a price though, maybe Mr Jenkins would like to visit third world farmers and tell them why they're excluded from European markets and forced to live in penuary for the good of the French agriculture.
martin, Nottingham, notts
Far from being a brilliantly written article as one comment suggests, Jenkins' basic argument is flawed. The voters could have chosen not to endorse Blair and Brown's alleged deal in 1994. Instead, they have supported the election of a Blair administration three times. In a Parliamentary system, the Prime Minister is simply the leader of the largest party in the House of Commons. It is then for the party to select its leader as it sees fit. Jenkins' arguments are flawed in that they attempt to apply the norms of Presidential politics to a Parliamentary system.
Mark Barrett, Durham, UK
I agree with most of what Simon Jenkins writes about France and the French. However, the claim that municipalities are clean and safe needs to be qualified as far as Paris is concerned. When I lived in a good residential area there I was shocked by the amount of dog fouling - the stench in summer was revolting - and the instant mountains of litter in the metro when the rubbish collectors went on strike. Pickpockets and muggers seem more rife than in London. I've lost count of how many times someone has stood just too close behind me when I've been with luggage on an escalator in the Gare du Nord. France is a divided society. As well as the political elite - detested because of its ENA-induced arrogance and superiority - there is a much larger elite that is, thanks to the socialist policies Mr Jenkins describes, increasingly inpenetrable: that of people with jobs. Sacrifices must be made to help those without.
Andrew, London,
No wonder the British are flooding over to France to enjoy their wonderful lifestyle. Our (increased) contribution to the hideous CAP keeps the French 'lifestyle' going.
So as we British are paying through the nose for it, we might as well get value for money by living in the France we are propping up.
We are not stupid are we?
Patrick, Clitheroe,
Everything that Mr Jenkins says is true, but he does not explain the cost: a bloated public sector debt that is barely manageable today, and in 20 years will bankrupt the state. The French are living a lie: believing they can all retire at 50 on full pay and benefits, while those of working age can support them with 35 hours a week. Sadly, the numbers do not add up, and France is heading for a major shock. My prediction? Another revolution in 2015, followed by restoration of the monarchy, with Johnny Halliday as the new King.
Tim Harrison, Dubai, UAE
if there were no differences between countries....why would we take vacations abroad...?
phil, sacramento, ca
It takes a few hours to set up as an artisan or small business in france. There are compulsory courses on basic accounting and management at the Chambre de Metiers for the first , and at the Chambre de Commerce for the latter.
I can't speak for the whole spectrum of the 35hour week, but my son builds roofs and does 35 plus 4 overtime at +25%, which is quite enough IF one is organised and works hard. I doubt if many brit journalists have worked up roofs, but I have.
""""The French “no” lobby’s case was that Europe was becoming too liberal, too open-market and thus threatening France’s cartelised public sector and restrictive labour laws.""""
Non. Change the last bit to "threatening quality of life for all except the fat cats." Many people were also not enthusiastic about NATO being enshrined in the Constitution.
If you bothered to look closely at the figures, unemployment is grossly understated in UK figures, also PS Deficit.
You can keep the Thatcherite Consensus.
dave, normandy,
Perhaps this explains why we are the grumpiest in Europe!
CWW, Ipswich,
A brilliantly written and perceptive article - one of the best I've read in a long time on France. Whoever is elected president in two weeks' time, s/he will defend French - not
EU - interests to the last barricade. This will mean, inter alia, that British and German workers will continue to support French agriculture and its bloated public sector for the next decade, unless the incoming British prime minister, like Mrs Thatcher before him, calls a halt to this form of political chauvinism. The French cockerel needs to have its wings cut - but will Gordon or David have the courage to apply the scissors?
Dr David Green, Athens, Greece
The French, perhaps I mean the indigenous French, value their country, culture, creeds and regional traditions, foods and wines and is determined to retain those characteristics. They also value the slower pace of living than, for example, Britain of the 21st century, all pace and little substance. That is why many Britons who can afford to, buy cottages and larger properties to escape the grossly overcrowded madness in Britain's towns, cities and fast disappearing countryside. France has an excellent rail system between major towns and cities unlike in Britain where, despite a ‘botched’ privatization, it is still inefficient and falling to pieces; their health system appears more efficient and effective, well at the least it is cleaner, than in Britain but it is costing increasing amounts to provide that service. Perhaps the French are determined not to become the consumer-driven and debt-ridden society a la USA and UK. However, unemployment is a real problem that must be addressed.
Kenneth Armitage, Suffolk, England
So all those people sleeping under sections of autoroute flyover on the way to work in Paris are just in my imagination.
The pollution in the countryside by the industrial farming just a hallucination caused by the chemicals they use.
And the most annoying thing, not being able to find a decent meal in Paris, or very few. I was even driven to eat at a McDo once as being the least painful option, obviously it wasn't.
It's good if you have a job and are in the system.
Not quite so lovely if you are not. such as illegal immigrants. Note the soup kitchens at Sangatte.
If you have a business, and there aren't that many in France because most people are employed by the state, it's terrible.
Clark, Geneva, Switzerland
France will always be the world's favorite; i hope the French manage it well for us. joie de vivre. oui!
zankaon, zanville,
The French care about their country and their people. Whereis the British Government sell their country and their people to the highest bidder.
James, London, England
After the polemic against France in certain articles, in this newspaper and many others, it is a joy to read this article. I am an ex-Brit who moved to France, some time ago, and is absolutely loving the experience. Oh and by the way, I pay for my medicine and it, more often than not, costs me considerably less than the charges that I used to have to pay to a chemist, for a National Health Prescription.
The French are a proud people and have a right to be so. They are, generally speaking, a caring people and look after their own. The British are a proud people and have a right to be so. However, they do not look after their own. Look at education, health, housing, quality of food and most important - quality of life.
I love Great Britain and always will do so. However, I am so glad that I chose to live in France. Why? It's simple, my life is so much happier.
Marc, St. Barths, France
The write up is a brio!!!! It is indeed a " battle royale' going on between Sarkozy and Segolane' Royal, to rule the Elysses .As the saying goes, " What a Frenchman does, is always in style !!" Be it politics, or their cuisine or a French art and artefacts, there is a touche' of elegance and e'clat in their doings. One being a right winger, who would dare advocate changes, some sweeping liberal changes in their economy with openness, and other being a protectionist... would hold the stiff-collared approach. Third in the fray, Bayrou being a nationalist, with his Gaulic ancestory will play on the sentiments of being 'French'....Although French society is multicultural, and econony is growing global, it is still under a curtain watch , preserving the roots of their Norman culture, being francophile . Let's watch with keen ineterst, the outcome of this political battle, keeping the glasses, with fizz and bubbling champagne and some bourbons to pat up Cheers!!!! for the winner.
Sanjeev Dheer, New Delhi, India