Tim Hames
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From The Times
April 2, 2007
Bullying, manipulative Iran? No change there, then
The surprising thing is that we’re surprised by Tehran’s actions
Oscar Wilde insisted that “life imitates art far more than art imitates art”. What would he have made of the present hostage crisis? Twenty-four hours before Iran seized 15 Britons its mission to the UN issued a statement expressing outrage at 300, a movie based on the Battle of Thermopylae in 480BC. In this epic struggle between a small band of Spartans and a massive army of Persians, the ancestors of modern Iran have been painted, the protest ran, as the “embodiment of evil, moral corruption”. They have a point. According to Paul Cartledge, Professor of Greek History at Cambridge University, Persia was “not a one-dimensional barbaric despotism” but, then again, it was “by no means well disposed to Greek-style democracy” either.
Not much seems to have changed in 2,500 years. The behaviour of Tehran over the past ten days has been akin to that of a one-dimensional barbaric despotism, while its contempt for the values of the democratic world is no less acute than it appears to have been in ancient history. Numerous explanations have been offered for this stand-off, including the vagueries of Persian New Year celebrations, long-standing confusion over where the exact boundary in these disputed waters lie and the ambition of the Revolutionary Guard to retrieve some of its men found conducting illegal activities deep inside Iraq. If these explanations are meant to make Iran’s stance seem more credible, then they fail. The real question that should be asked is “Why are we surprised?”.
This seizure is wholly consistent with Iran’s approach to foreign policy for the past three decades. It has been arming and directing Shia fanatics to attack British Forces in southern Iraq for the better part of four years. Its agents in Lebanon, Hezbollah, went into Israel last summer, killing eight troops and capturing two more of whom nothing has been heard since. Its other ally, Hamas, detained another Israeli soldier a little earlier and he too remains imprisoned. All these acts were in strict violation of international standards. Compared with these infamies, obliging soldiers to “confess” to offences that they never committed and publishing supposed letters to the British people must seem minor offences to Iran.
There is endless discussion about how to separate the “moderates” from the “radicals” in Tehran. It is a largely futile exercise. The blunt reality is that Iran has been a menace from the moment that Jimmy Carter, with monumental weakness, decided to force the Shah into exile and so permit Ayatollah Khomeni to return from Paris to assume control. Iran has sought to destabilise the Middle East peace process, undercut Lebanon’s sovereignty and undermine other regimes in the region for almost 30 years. It has done so while men lauded as “moderates” were state president. The Iranian regime has been the embodiment of theological Trotskyism: permanent revolution is the core of its collective ideology. So why are we surprised that it has taken this chance to treat British citizens so badly?
And what has been the response of most of the major powers throughout this period? It has been to express occasional disapproval while building up trade links. Even after the emergence of the firebrand Mahmoud Ahmadinejad it has been business as usual. Over the past five years Iran has moved step by step to be in a position where it can possess nuclear weapons. It has met only limited resistance from a UN Security Council unwilling to do anything more than threaten minor economic sanctions. Iran has concluded, rationally from its perspective, that no one will challenge its attempt to dominate its neighbourhood. The presence of British troops there is an inconvenience. So why are we surprised that it has engineered the opportunity to intimidate them?
What will happen after this incident is over? Iran has every reason to assume that Britain will be more careful about where its forces are stationed. Any place in the vicinity of what could be regarded as Iranian territorial waters may quietly become out of bounds — which means that it will fall under de facto Iranian authority irrespective of cartography. The Iraqi Navy has less muscle than the Swiss one. It cannot impose itself on these awkward straits.
If Tehran calculates that the best way to push the British out of Basra is by turning up the heat, then that is what it will do — or else it might lie low if it concludes that this will hasten our departure. It will then ease into the vacuum. As it does, the smaller Gulf states, especially, will ask themselves whether it may be wiser to appease the Iranian monster rather than oppose its adventurism. So why are we surprised at such aggression against us?
The lasting lessons of this saga should be obvious. They are that Iran in the hands of the mullahs is not, as has been claimed in the past week, “erratic”, “incoherent” or “unpredictable”, but consistent in its outlook and objectives. They are that there will be no stability in the most potentially explosive part of the planet while this regime is permitted to operate as it has been doing. They are that the only plausible middle course between the unattractive choice of backing a military endeavour against Iran or accepting that Iran will have the Bomb is an economic blockade on a scale far larger than France or Germany, never mind Russia and China, have been ready to contemplate. That resolve, though, is essential. For if this is what Iran is already like, what on earth will happen if it ever commands nuclear weapons?
N Mirza
The other 3 million came from western russia. When the Nazies turned on their alley and opened a new front.
They teach that in school or at least they did when I was going. It is important lesson to be taught, so the no one will let that happen again.
For this reason an unstable ragime like Iran, that takes hostages on a whim and dares civilized nations to do something about it, should not be allowed to have at their disposal, a nuclear arsonal, especially when you consider the dark lord's comments of that regime regarding Isreal.
Good always prevails over evil. The old alliances are still intact.
John, Númenor, Men of the West
I dont no where to start from WW2 or asia vitnam or middle east. or just from Iraq. Abugraib jail or the brave marin and his companin who confess the killing and raping inocent Iraqi 11yr old girl and her family, killing and touchering in Basra by british. and invading Iraq, trespassing the Iranian boder, that is not braking international law? you decied who has ugly and evil face, and rember army always present the whole Natoin.
one more thing according to the history only 3.2M jewish was living in Germeny at the time of WW2. So how come 6M jewish got killed in EU
N Mirza, Philadelphia, USA
Congratulations on the coming release of your soldiers, it's a true testament to the power that the world really has when they stand together, it did not take long for the Iranian's to change their attitude once it seen the world was in solidarity including the EU which in my opinion made the biggist diference to the stakes involved because of the potential financial impact, now if we could only have this kind of stand against the Iranian's and the Nuclear issue ,however that one is going to be alot more difficult because we need the Russian's and Chinese on board for it to have a real significant impact on Iran, one can always hope though.
jxbong, pasadena, Maryland USA
Listen to the right-wing numpties on here, angling for a war against Iran. The same type of people who took us into the utter debacle that is Iraq. It's they, and the pro-israelis, who should stand before an international court to explain why innocent people are dying for their wars. And all the time they sit on their fat arses and scream for WAR. And, can I ask, where was the british air cover when these sailors and marines were taken? Idiots one and all...
Philip, Edinburgh, Scotland
"M. Fernandez, San Francisco, " your last name sounds Mexican. I suggest crossing the borders back home first then start insulting Iranian people as uncivilized as you have done here. Or perhaps you're one of the "legal" workers now!!
Me, London,
Iran caught us by surprise and I suppose we only have ourselves to blame for that. As stated in the article, the Iranian military is a very small one and tactics like this are indicative of their dark cunning. We should let this serve as a lesson that Iran is never to be trusted. One can only hope retaliation is severe and very painful. Time wil tell. We must be forever vigilent. An all out military assault would be disasterous for them, but we shouldn't rule that option out. We're certainly living in interesting times.
Patrick, Houston,
who is barberic..?
they had to hire 8000 more police officers from 6 more countries around germany just for england soccers fans not to destroy the city.
we had our sisdaeber party in LOS ANGLES last sunday,the visitor population were around 25000(25k)
people. i onlt did see 3 security gaurds around the park.
i do not undrestand how these times writers go sleep on night.
ebrahim, la, usa
The incidence at least proves and sends out a loud message that it is not only Britain and its twin brother US that are the only powers present in the region that can flex military muscles, Iranian military is also fully present and a threat,it is not like the defeated Iraqi military under Sadam Hussein, I suppose that is why both countries have never attacked Iran inspite of the many standoffs and confrontations with the Islamic country in the last two years and most importantly on the nuclear issue, the US war planners probably realise that a miltary attack on Iran would be disastrous for it, especially at present when there is lack of political will in the US for such an action, given the pressure being mounted on the Bush administration on Iraq war. So dialogue is the only option the west has adopted with Iran, ridiculously this option the US did not have patience for before Iraq invasion 4 years ago! and the result ? this quagmire they have found themselves today.
Ben, Lagos, Nigeria
Hadi, I don't know where you get your frankly amusing idea that middle eastern culture "rescued" Europe from the dark ages. The sole reason the dark ages occured at all was the implosion of the Roman Empire, although giving all Europe one enemy to fight certainly would have helped them stop squabbling against each other.
In modern times, perhaps you feel that your government's enforced marching of children through minefields was the height of civilised behaviour? There were something like 100,000 Basiji "Maryrs", no? Never mind - their families were offered interest free credit after all.
Then there is the execution of minors for petty offences. In 2005 Iran was the only country in the world to do so. Gays are put to death as a matter of routine and dissidents are tortured. Your president has also appointed well known human rights criminals to his cabinet such as Pour-Mohammadhi. Yes, Iran is really "Civilised". Wonder what Cyrus would have made of it all?
Dan, Hampton, United Kingdom
Maarten, Amsterdam -
Are you suggesting that, if it's a bother, they shouldn't get off the couch or that the Iranian people are uncivilized animals?
The absolute apathy of Europeans is completely beyond me.
M. Fernandez, San Francisco,
I don't know what's funnier. A repressive theocracy utterly Alien (and probably anathema) to Cytus whining about the depiction of events over two millenia ago just after hosting a conference on Holocaust denial or Iranians and their apologists neatly forgetting of the hundred thousand children their beloved leaders marched through Iraqi minefields in the 80's during a time they were secretly accepting arms from "The great satan". Then there are the many, many abuses of human rights since, the perpetrators of whom currrently sit on the Iranian president's cabinet. I'm off to see 300!
Dan, Hampton, United Kingdom
Hadi, how exactly did the middle east rescue Europe? And what is so evil about the creation of Israel to anyone but a neo Nazi or Holocaust denier?
Ben, York,
Watched 300 too, Hans?
The Moors invaded Spain, I don't see anyone speaking Moorish. Nice architecture, though.
Anyhoo,I'm with Paul. 300 should be taken with a pinch of salt. It's propaganda, and it's obviously working.
Starling, Lancaster,
I think it's time the Brits send in Neville to appease those Persians
CJ Schneider, Copenhagen, Denmark
Mr. Hames, you hit the nail on the head. Despite numerous acts of war against the West, not one time have the mullahs in Iran been punished for their actions. In 1979 the U.S. embassy was invaded and hostages were held for 444 days. In 1983 their proxy, Hezbollah, bombed the Beirut barracks of U.S. and French personnel, killing 300. They were behind both the 1994 bombing of a Jewish Center in Argentina that killed 85 and the 1996 Khobar Towers bombing that killed 18 U.S. airmen. Their latest act of war was to kidnap 15 British soldiers and parade them and their forced confessions on TV. Yet no one does anything. Their president thinks he is the second coming of the hidden imam who is here to destroy the West, denies the Holocaust happened and stated he wants to immediately begin yet another war in the Middle East, this time with nukes. After all of this, the best the West can do is freeze a few bank accounts and listen to Russia and China? Neville Chamberlain would be proud!
Josh Drazen, East Haven, CT, USA
What did you expect? 15 british soldiers (not civilians) in iranian territorial waters..expecially now since the iraqi government seized the iranian diplomats. What would the british government do if 15 iranian soldiers are found in british territorial waters? or on british soil? I really can't understand why all these double standards when it comes to iran..when you mentioned the kidnapping of israeli soldiers by hamas and hezbollah, read also about the kidnappings by the israeli occupation forces(without trial and against human rights) of lebanese and palestinian citizens - 'More than 9800 Palestinian prisoners are imprisoned in Israeli jails, but the fate of these detainees is not mentioned in the U.S.-backed peace plan for the Middle East'
Of course when israel, UK or the US kidnaps someone, it paints a nice picture and says that they are held in custody for further interrogation. Even the soldiers admitted that they were in iranian waters - what else do you want?
David Agius, Malta, Malta
Mr. Hames, you hit the nail right on the head. The world has been appeasing Iran since the 1979 revolution. Not once have the mullahs been punished for their actions, despite numerous acts of war against the West. They invaded sovereign U.S. territory and took embassy workers hostages in 1979. They were behind the 1983 Beirut bombing of U.S. and French soldiers, killing almost 300. Their agents bombed a Jewish facility in Argentina, killing 85 in 1994. They were behind the 1996 Khobar Towers bombing, killing 18 U.S. airmen. They instigated the summer war between Israel and Lebanon. Now in their latest act of war, they kidnapped 15 British soldiers and paraded them on TV after forcing confessions. World powers like China, France and Russia would rather collect Iranian money than prevent the most insane leadership in the world from gaining the most lethal weapons in history. Yet again, it's time for the U.S., U.K. and others to stop acting like Neville Chamberlain toward Iran.
Josh Drazen, East Haven, CT, USA
HMS is known to be a Battle ship. How come Iranians , 6 boats,enter the Iraqi waters when it should have been stopped?
HMS was in Iraqi waters , why they did not stop them ?But where were the launches?
Now you have the answer.
Sebastian, India, India
Well, my suggestion to Mr. Tim Hames is to be a little bit more responsible to history when he starts writting an article full of historical references. Every story has at least two sides. If one starts counting "illegal" actions taken by the British and American governments during the last half century, one would need a tone of paper (or a few megs of memory!).
I wonder where to start? Right after the WWII with their actions in the "looser" half of Europe, Japan and the middle east? The story of the creation of Isreal? The historical massacres in Vietnam? Constant involvement of the "twins" in every major conflict in Africa, middle east, Asia, etc.? Or their latest episode in Iraq with their daily killings of innocent people and "humanitarian(!)" treatment of the prisoners?!!
Now, whoes actions during the last half century has been closer to be brandes as "barbaric"? Let alone the dark ages in Europe and the way the middle eastern culture (including the "Persians") rescued them.
Hadi Akbari, Shiraz, Iran
M. Fernandez said to hka & Babak from Iran : 'why don't you go sit in front of the British embassy with a sign that says "Release the Hostages" or "Solidarity with UK"'
Have you seen what people are demonstrating against Britain outside the embassy in Teheran? Where do you think their stones and sticks would land if someone would sit there with above mentioned signs?
Maarten, Amsterdam,
Regardless what you think about the Spartians and their fellow Greece citizen we would not have a western civilization's if the Persian empire had conquered Greece and you probably would be speaking Farsi now.
Hans Etter, Los Angeles, USA,CA
about the movie 300 it is based off a comic book that is based of the event so theres alot that gets lost there. if u look at the battle ground of thermopolea its a very narrow pass and on a cliff face so 300 defending against some historians speculate 30,000 for a few days isnt that far fetched but theres something else that was lost in the telling of this event 1,000 thesbian greeks refused to leave with the rest of the army and stay with the spartans so there were around 1,300 greeks on a narrow pass and they got slaughtered after a while but stalled enough for the people of athens to flee. The spartans were not democratic the Athenians were and got spartas help through reasoning with them that if athens falls sparta will be next. persia was civilized probaly more so then the Roman Empire dont belive propaganda u should always double check what u here from people (excuse my spelling mistakes never was my strong point nor is grammar)
Paul, manitowoc, USA
Any Spartans out there? British Navy Needs You!
Andrew, Colima , Mexico
Mr. Hames, your words bring resolution and encouragement to my heart, to hear someone else express these obvious truths. I think the UN has become the unniverse's biggest debating society with little or no real strength or moral character to really make a difference. Shame on China and Russia for making it this way. Peace cannot stand a chance without discipline and courage, like that of our staunchest allies, the wonderful United Kingdom. God Save the Queen!Thanks Again,
John Bartholomew, Kingsford, Michigan, USA
hka & Babak, Iran -
If you hate your government and believe the taking of the British servicemembers was wrong, why don't you go sit in front of the British embassy with a sign that says "Release the Hostages" or "Solidarity with UK"?
What would you do if someone drew a cartoon of Muhammed?
There is only so much you can blame on your government. 29 years ago you launched a revolution. If it all went wrong, stand up now and make things right in Iran.
M. Fernandez, San Francisco,
Iran has, whether it feels rightly or wrongly, apprehended 15 foreign servicemen/woman for straying across an intangible, excessively dispute border. These service personnel did not fight back, they were under orders, and rather than being peacibly expelled were taken hostage.
History has little to do with this, regardless of the vigour with which it's relevancy is forwarded by some commentators. Iran saw an opportunity when those soldiers were close to the border and has seized that opportunity. Those 15 are held for the political ends of the Iranian leadership. Claims they were spying are fairly proposterous; primarily they were at sea, nothing to be seen there that can't be seen from satellite so why the risk?
I understand the UKs approach, we want our people back without having to risk the lives of us or the Iranians. However diplomacy prob won't work with people who behave like children 'its my ball and i'm going home'='Uk behaving in the wrong manner so release delayed'
Dave, Wales, Wales
Mr. Tim Hames is very passionate about defending the British sailors captured by Iran. I have to say first of all that I don't believe in armies neither war to fight for your land and Mr. Hames should remember what a simple man like Ghandi did to the almighty British empire.
I would like to ask Mr. Hames to think about the reverse of this situation. To think that the Iranian and Iraqi army have taken Ireland and the closest lands to the British Isles and the United Kingdom is not a superpower. Imagine that Iranian and Iraqi boats are patrolling very, very close to British waters in a threatening way. How would you feel Mr. Hames ? You would probably be scared to death that they will try to take your country and you will do whatever is necessary to avoid that. You will try to show your strentgh in anyway. That, Mr. Hames is what is happening in Iran right now. They are exercising their right to defend themselves as any nation in this planet would do. So yes, don't be so surprised.
Marcos Hardman, El Cerrito, CA, USA
Babek, just to make it clear, it is the Iranian government we hate, not the iranian people.
miriam, london, uk
Why are you so determined to break this nations heart? The way that you attacked the persian history and culture in your article is absoluetly unacceptable! Make no mistake. I am 100% against the current government in iran. Persians are no diffrent from people from any other part of the world, all they want is to be happy, but as we all know the current regime isn't doing anything to meet that end.People who are running this government are much more intelligent than they seem.Take the actions of president ahmadinejad for example.Since the day he was elected he started travelling to the poorest areas of iran (where people believe almost everything you tell them) to gather support for himself and i would say he has been very successful in doing so.To be perfectly honest i must say that at this moment i don't know who to hate.You?Mr Hames?for your ridiculous article?or the iranian government which brainwashes people?One thing is clear for me though, that both your intentions are not good.
Babak, Tehran, Iran
Do you feel as a political moderate you are one of the voiceless disenfranchised citizens of the world? I have often thought it would be timely in this environment of mutual animosity to marshall what I would call an elected "Global Assembly of Citizens for a United Planet, comprising representatives with a mandate to promote world peace, develop innovative conflict resolution strategies, learn from real-time case studies. Find a path through seemingly intractable political issues. The Assembly would invite colloboration with moderates and evolve into an influential and credible citizens vehicle for expression outside the political spectrum. John Lennon's familiar lyric of "Give peace A Chance" is merely a catchphrase unless we actively and vigorously give meaning to it. Your thoughts?
Chris Hudson, Vancouver, Canada
Oh, Nima, from Sydney. Most past and present "superpowers" had human rights charters of some kind. Those charters for the most part applied to conquered peoples and not to people they were at war with. The Babylonians, Medes, Persians, Greeks, Romans . . . Spaniards, Britons, United States (in North America at least) all conquered or tried to conquer the world as they knew it. And, although I believe a great portion of the Battle of Thermopylae has been fictionalized, I can't find anywhere in history where it says it was 1000 Persians against 300 Greeks. That's kind of like saying WWII was a battle between 1000 Germans from Weimar, Germany against 300 Texans from Poyote, Texas.
Allen, Porterville, CA, USA, CA
I am an Iranian that is now living in the USA. I am so glad people are telling it like it is. Million of Iranians like me have fled the country because of the tyrannical rule of the mullahs. I blame Jimmy Carter for their rise to power and I beg the US to rectify this mistake. You owe it to yourselves and to us Iranians to end these evil Mullah's rule. Please save us! Please save Iran!
Behnam, Houston, Texas
Well people, do not forget Iran was in the dish.. If you thought there was an Iraqi war without Iranian war that's wrong. What do you think UK was going to do if France was to be invaded by Saudi Arabia? Of course you will start thinking, "Am I the next guy?". Yeah. Probably you are. So these people feel threatened, having just somebody in the border, knocking not so gently by the main gate.. and being so socially organized differently.. Evil or not Iran has to play it all.. or he has to accept the Western philosophy of life.. (That means democracy included?.) It seems there is a selection nature rule that makes us humans so agressive.. like the animals we fight to have it better.. This is the Tme Chapter, on this planet book, where the West searches its "vital space". Morality or the "why" comes always after.. The Iran regime crash is a matter of time.. On my opinion.. thier political system is a failure respect what the Western offers.. So.. Let's go and clash than..
Gerd, Tirana, Albania
Diplomatic solution is the only one that is acceptable to International community , US and allys shoud get lesson from Vietnam, Bosnia and even WWII that forces create enemy not friends
Though Tiger lives in same same place where deer exists , it does not mean T will kill D , it will never happen , there is nature ( so called God ) who maintain balance of all creations including humans.
Believe in God , try to win a country and countryman by love, nature will make you superpower..... Thanks to read my comments
Shohidul Haque, NYC, USA
All of these people who bring up the US or say that Britain is at fault are slaves to idealistic utopian logic. It is the equivalant of saying the following sentance:
"I went on my neighbors property so he raped me. It was my fault and I deserved it."
In all honesty, GB is weak for their stance over their soldiers, there is a line, and Iran crossed it.
If i'm T. Blair, "Iran, you have 24 hours to release our soldiers, if you do not comply I will bomb every military installation within 100 miles of where they were taken. Then you will have 24 more hours to provide my soldiers, if you st ill do not comply I will level your capital."
How do you deal with a hostage situation here in the US? Do you give them what they want and let them get away? No, and neither should Britain.
Aaron, Philadelphia, USA
All the same and more of the same crap from Iran......maybe we need to give them a tast of there own crap
harold, keokuk, usa/ Ia
Fanatics, all of them. Press the button Bush we're with ya. They wanna play with energy of the gods lets show them they are not ready.
John, Númenor, Men of the West
Mr Hames
I am sending you this from iran , I have no love for government of iran or mullas but its very important that you and your fello americans know this .
may be , this was another game of the bush and tony the ( sisters ) send this smal unit right to the point with hope that the iranian guard will start shotings and they will excuse themselves to attack iran .know , if one day we find out they did this what should we think of your government .I dont think the sisters are better than mullas , they dont care even for you americans or britts , this is not a game for sentiments , this is a game how can be less human . check your own history you will find out this has been happend many times .so far in this pea contest of the sisters and our mullas i see the sisters are winning side whit almost 1,000,000 afgan and iraqies blood in their hand . grow up and dont side whit them , you are much better person.
h.k.a, tehran , iran
Em Williams i think u should concentrate on get your makeup down, talk about Iran is weak an the US is going to win the WAR. It is that playgronud attitude to life thats causing the problems today. USA is a make up of the many countries of the world so when ever the US wants to kill to rule they only hurt thier own citizens. ask why the USA could not stop N Korea to scared? or no oil. The only looser in any war is the people who have something to loose the Muslims would rather die than be ruled. Why do you think the British Empire was smashed to bits. 300 spartans is nothing but a myth released to aid the USA in the propergander war which proceeds the real deal. Peace and love is the only way forward, mankind will ruin the world eventually. Armagedon is comming if we dont resolve things by talking war weapons are not the answer. let u have your beliefs i'll have mine its not about brute force but logical reasoning.
lee, Cardiff, Wales
The West has been kowtowing to Iran since 1979. When will we learn that appeasement doesn't work? Opposing Hitler in 1937 would've been painful -- but indisputably far less painful than waiting till 1939.... Look around, folks. A defiant dictator in North Korea who has nukes. A defiant dictator in Iran who wants nukes. A defiant dictator in Syria who behaves like Tony Soprano. A defiant dictator in Sudan who's killed 400,000 (give or take). They all get away with murder because they know the world won't do anything.... Even after Britain gets its sailors back, Iran will go on defying the civilized world. The only answer is to hurt the regime so painfully, they won't dream of bothering the West ever again.... And if the UN can't do anything but pass silly resolutions, it should just disband. Its track record (Cambodia, Uganda, Rwanda, Kosovo, Darfur, Iraq, Iran, Zimbabwe, Syria, North Korea) is abysmal.
GARY, WASHINGTON, DC/ USA
SIMPLE:. Iran's oil revenue increases $120 million for
every 30 days that oil prices are "artifically" inflated $1 per
barrel. In two (2) days, WHEN IRAN BALKS, OIL PRICES will go even HIGHER than in the last week or so.
This stategy ties in with the philosophy of "Sanction us
and watch us get our money back!"
Iran knows what will happen to OIL PRICES in two (2) days if they re-escalated. IF getting some of the money
back that they're losing on sanctions over their nuclear
wasn't one of the original main reasons for taking the
British military hostages, it will be one of the main ones
why they don't help end the crisis.
grant templin, madison, Ohio, U.S.A.
Well Mr. Hames, I do not agree with your politics of self glorification while brandishing Iranians as the barbarians. You are a typical British colonialist whose time is way past, after all the sun set on the British empire a long time ago.
Iranian political system has many flaws, yes it's fragmented, and does not follow the western so called system of government, however it is preserving the integrity of the great nation of Iran, and constantly reminds its citizens about the injustices that have been done to its citizens by the British & Americans throughout the history.
You may not like to see that Iran is self sufficient, and does not need you for its basic needs from manufacturing to weaponry, however as an Iranian we will never forget the 8 years of war with Iraq and the support of USA, Britain, and all of Europe for the Saddam regime.
Iran today has a young, energetic, & educated population (over 50% of University students are women), and will have a bright future.
Parsa, Tehran, IRAN
We the Americans unfortunately believe that we are GI Joes out to save the world. We have taken it upon ourselves to spread "democracy" by bombing countries around the world. Saddam was always a tyrant yet the U.S. was his ally during the Iraqi-Iran war, and we supplied him with chemical weapons. Bin Laden has always been a terrorist and was supported by the U.S. to resist the Soviet forces. Israel is consistently violating international laws and it's creation was, is, and always will be illegal. Millions of Palestinian refugees have been expelled from their homes, and Israeli demands that Palestinians recognize it"s right to existence. In other words Palestinians should not only be expelled from their homes but it was a god given right for the Israelis to do so and Palestinians must acknowledge it. Freedom of speech, where? Think twice before you criticize Israel because you will most likely be labeled an anti-Semite. Be proud and support the American terror.
Eric , Washington, U.S.
I am puzzled as to why these marines and sailors didn't defend themselves. You would think that the Royal Navy had the resources in the area to protect their personnel
Dwight, Brookings, SD/USA
If the Iranians have a claim on waters also claimed by Iraq, this was an odd way to assert that claim. The UK was not operating in secret. Why did the Iranians not present the UK with a map detailing their claims when they first became aware that UK forces were operating close to the area? Why did the Iranians not place buoys to demark their claim? Why were they not patroling their waters to warn off potential intruders BEFORE they crossed? These are procedures that all CIVILIZED countries follow. Persia might have been the height of civilization two or three millennia ago, but they are far from it now!
Stefan Stackhouse, Black Mountain, NC/USA
you people are sick-os, have you seen the evidence? because you have military power does not mean you ae right. how would you like to be kidnapped as a suspect and spend 5 years being tortured, while a people and government change all the legal rules so as not to face justice.
you are a very foolish people, no moral, no truth. no wonder you murder , rob , destroy each other so. the bible says the theif / devil cometh to kill , rob and destroy ; that is you
Leno, castries, St.lucia
Nilu from Honolulu writes, "The USA started this when they assasinated the persian ruler decades ago and put in there own pawn in his place.... read your history."
Amusing if not sad (and misspelled). Let me see if I follow the logic: The USA installed the Shah. The Shah was an autocrat. The Iranians replaced him with the freedom-loving ... Ayatollah? Attention radical lefties: women, gays, Jews, atheists, and just about everyone else had far more rights under the Shah (with all his faults) than under the mullahs. Iran under the Shah didn't threaten to wipe nations off the map. The mullahs had three decades to turn Iran into a democracy. Instead, they turned the clock back.... And can someone explain why the radical left apologizes for women-hating, gay-bashing, one-god regimes that stand for everything they oppose?
GARY, WASHINGTON, DC/ USA
A lot of inculture around... The 300 spartans resisted against an army of ca 60,000 Persans and that was for pretty long - and were only defeated by treason. Actually treason is a word the Islamic world seem to like a lot...
And if that Persian empire was so keen to protect foregin ethncis, that means they had to fear something even then - so that the king had to issue an order for the foreigners to be protected. I wonder why the Jews had to flee form Iran so lont time ago too... even before being held in slavery in Egypt. Nothing new in the Iranian culture... except the actual "president" - dictator is nothing of Cyrus the Great... maybe only in his dreams.
Tonino, Rome, Italy
I understand the reasons why so many see Iran as a threat and I pray for speedy release of these innocent soldiers. However, before we call Iran 'axis of evil' let's look at ourselves. UK and USA are already occupying other countries, holding 'prisoners of war' for years without trials and parading captives on national TV (remember Sadam: capturing and executing). Letters released (although fake) are nothing compared to what UK and USA governments conjured about WMDs and perceived threat in Iraq.
Do I need to draw any conclusions?
Asta Dzelzyte, London, UK
It never ceases to amaze me at the amount of ignorance contained in some of these comments. It is perfectly clear most posses little if any knowledge of world events outside of left-wing, tabliod rhetoric or have ever picked up a history book.
chopper, Dublin, Ireland
Your article is but an exercise in distorsion of reality. Instead of asking the opinion of a Greek scholar, maybe you should have asked the opinion of a Persian scholar about 300... With the exception of the Israelis, the people of the Middle East consider the presence of the Coalition forces in Irak as unwarranted. In effect, the Anglo-American presence in the Middle East has been "illegitimate" from the start. A day will come that the public opinion will embrace this reality and not the distorted one that you, the apparatchicks of Bushism, try to shove into their brains day after day.
W.W., Paris, France
One bucket of instant sunshine ought to do the job. If they refuse to operate on our socile and intellectual level then why don't we operate on theirs. Let's take some of their people prisoner for walking on the cracks in the pavement and parade them on the TV, see how they like it. I also think that the Royal Navy should be armed enough and appear too 'hard' to tackle. Like all bullies, if someone stands up to them they will run away crying!
Mike, Knutsford, Cheshire
Why did the Iranian navy seize the Britons? Why didn't they just order them to turn back (if they really were in Iranian territory)? If they Brits refused, only then should they be seized. Were they told that and did they refuse to follow?
Carl, Los Banos, Laguna, R.P.
Well, as far as i know from history, the first human rights charter was created by great persian king Cyrus some 2500 years ago to protect different ethnicities under this empire and that was long time before the human rights abuses of so-called British empire by raping and looting its colonies, facilitated by ancestors of those captured marines. As for the movie 300, again the history says that 300 Greeks resisted 1000 persians for few days and were defeated ultimately. so the movie is just fantasy like other hollywood movies!!
Nima, Sydney,
The Iranian leaders are so evil, the only surprise is that President Ahmadinejad hasn't bought one of our football clubs.
Jem, London, UK
I'm not surprised.
Privately, I doubt the government are either.
These are primitive and volatile people who feel morally and intellectually jusified in "satirising" the holocaust. The equivalent would be cartoons about Bosnia. The fact that we would never do that shows the moral and intellectual gulf between our world and theirs, which unfortunately now has centre stage in international geo-politics.
Joe, Manchester,
I live in the united states where my friends who are originally from Iran call themselves Persian. They are bright gifted individuals who are ashamed by the Iran of Today. The more radical ones joke that they hope one day someone has enough balls to bomb the mullahs back into the stoneage so they can rebuild their land and pride. It is sad it has got to this and no nation stands up to Iran. I think it is up to Briton and the United States to come up with a solution to this growing meglomanic, who if you remember correctly was very much in favor of holding our hostages in 79. Most of you dont remember this. Grow some balls folks!
edward, las vegas, usa
I think most of you seem ignorant. If you know anything about history It seems very acurate. The middle east is going to be a much better place than it was in Saddam days because of what is going on there now.
David, All over the world,
Which was more civilized? Abu qureib, Guantanamo or the Iranian showing of the Britishers confessing? I did not see the chains, or the dogs or the orange uniforms on the British.
JF, Copenhagen, Denmark
bullying? manipulating? sounds like another country i can think of, except Iran is being far too honest and upfront about being bullying and manipulatuive warmongerers.
Britain has been caught in yet another fight that is nothing to do with them. dont let these two thugs goad us into taking actions that will lead to yet another mass murder spree!
Gareth, oxford,
Tim,
I believe the first thing you should ask your government is "what are we even doing near Iranian waters?" How come we were there in the first place????
This western style of labelling countries it does not agree with attacking their soilders in iraq and other bla bla bla..no longer resonates with us.
I t further reminds us of the lies you told the world just to go and destroy a country and its people.
More misfortunes will still meet you in the middle east unless you end your illegal and immoral ocuupation of another man's country.
Chris Obiekwe, Warri, Nigeria
i will further say that bush's folly, namely the incursion into iraq, has created all of this madness, including opening the doors to the mullahs of iran to do what it likes...this is the nature of bush's "legacy"
wretched incompetent is he, i await his departure from office impatiently...
david costa, portland, maine usa
Bravo! Tim Hames is right on target. I have been following middle east news very closely for over 10 years and I have not seen a journalstic piece sum up the issues as well as Tim. Please Amana and other contributors, read the "Persian Puzzle" by Kenneth M. Pollock. Mr. Pollock was a National Security Advisor under both Democratic and Republican administrations in the US and offers a very even handed analysis of historical Iran to present day when yes Iran and other countries keep doing things which keep relations from becoming more stable. The book is worth reading to see what he thinks about the future of Iran under Islamic Law and consequences for women's rights, access to education for women, religious tolerance, ethnic diversity, etc. We all have a lot of work to do to ensure reasonable human rights all over the globe.
Lane, Halibut Cove, Alaska
Why not announce and then sail in a warship to pick up the "hostages"? I dont think the I's have enough guts to actaully start a war. If so, lets get it over with.
Em Williams, Basehor, Kansas
Moral highground lost by WMD war;humilated by Iran.What is next Mr.Blair. Just resign and let Brown clean your mess.
M.Adnan, Jeddah, KSA
1.)Iran has every right to protect their waters.
2) The USA started this when they assasinated the persian ruler decades ago and put in there own pawn in his place - yeah. USA started it.... come on people
3)the spartans were not democratic! they were barbaric. u think u can raise a city on men by brutalizing them and they would grow up to be sweet loving "freedom fighters"
please.... read your history.
nilu, honolulu, hi
The person (country) who believes his very survival hangs in the balance will always prove to be a tenacious and determined adversary. I have no doubt that the very thing that most countries lack today will be the thing that allows Israel to save itself when the time comes: a strong sense of social/cultural identity. While the rest of the world cogitates and beats its collective breast, in part due to our zest for cultural "diversity" - or more properly, cultural mayhem - Israel has remembered how fundamental this quality is to any social/cultural group's survival. When it really is a matter of survival, the niceties of "civilised" behavior (such as treaties and conventions) do not guarantee success. In other words, don't take a knife to a gun fight. I'm sure that the Israelis have no intention of leaving their survival to the whims of other country's disfunctional political systems. And they're just as unlikely to go to a nuclear fight armed only with a proposal for peace.
ed in canada, Calgary, Alberta , Canada
Israel would probably laugh if they were not yawning over this business. No news to them i'm sure. In fact, while Israel warned us about Iran and this exact behavior it was the beautiful people of the left in Europe and NY/LA who laughed, yawned, then scorned their warnings - and amazingly enough will continue to do so tomorrow.
Erik D, Cape Cod, Mass., USA
Now Brits now a little bit about how Iraqis feel. After all you seized their country.
Aamir, Peshawar, Pakistan
There isn't going to be peace in the Middle East. Period. Things are just going to get worse. Until the Rapture. ...what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ: and shall deceive many. (Jim Jones, David Coreh etc...) And ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines ,and pestilences, and earthquakes in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. ... But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Jay Bainter, Valdosta, USA Georgia
By dealing with Iran the way Ronald Regan dealt with it I assume the post writer means sell Iran missles and support Saddam Hussein's Iraq to play one regime against the other. Catastrophically bad policy we have spent the last few years paying for -literally.
And an attack on Iran may or may not send Iran back to the 7th century. It will definitely do so to the US which needs oil availability more than most and can afford the skyrocketing prices the beloved oil companies would offer the day after any attack much less.
As for Iran being "bullying and manipulative" that is strong language for an editorialist supporting punishing an entire country for something their leaders will not be able to do for 10 years according to US intelligence.
As for destablizing the Middle East here's a suggestion: why don't Presidents and Prime MInisters stop supporting religious tyrants and helping overthrow moderates? Then maybe it wouldn't be so easy to destablize the Middle East.
Edward, NY, NY
Well said Michael;
I was beginning to think I was all alone when it comes to the USA being given a bad rap.
What other country in history has acted in less self interest, when it came to protecting the rights of others.
What would the world be today if the USA had not intervened in WW1, WW2, and the Cold war?
Al Parisone, Mississauga, canada ontario
It seems that the British weakness shown in the recent stand off in the gulf will only feed the Iranian "Guards" and their ilk with further dreams of pulling John Bull's and Uncle Sam's beards. The militant Iranians understand one word, and that word is "FORCE." We will never be able to be able to reason diplomatically with them. They are on the "low road" to imposing Islamic despotism not only on all of Europe, which they seem to have infilitrated without any opposition, but on the whole world. Where are the leaders of civilization? We must resist their fanatic ways. Wake up, Western civilization, before it's too late!!
Arthur Livingston, Pahrump, Nevada
Iran "traeting British citizens so badly" ? And who says that ? Why shouldn't we believe that these sailors were in fact in Iranian waters? Just because the British government showed a GPS with some numbers on it ? The Iranians showed their own GPS and numbers as well ! You don't have the right to call a whole nation "barbaric" and “embodiment of evil, moral corruption” . What would you do if some foreigners enter your own soil or water? Say Hello and let them go away ?!
sam, london,
Reading the comments below, it is easy to see the "resolve" will be hard to find. I hope it will be found. Mr. Hames, I salute your concern and share it. Many have lost discernment. Right and wrong is lost. The service personell endangered, to many, are less important than sounding to their peers to be polically correct. They recite what they have been told. Their eyes have been closed, their senses are dull and they hear little truth. The truth that slips in gets twised until it is no longer truth. They will scream threats, "politically incorrect, anti-semitic, racism,'the world is fed up with EU and America'" to quiet you. Please don't be quiet. What they are saying is "no we don't WANT to hear the truth, we want to think all is OK, don't Bother us with the troubles of the world, give us the path of least resistance".
Rather, in writing fight a gentleman than touch the subject that the enemy might be the very one they protect so nurturingly. Don't give up, nor back down.
Karen, Houston, Texas
Mr. Rabat (Morocco) wake up and see the world as it really is. Iran is a terrorist state every since Khomeni came back. Isreal is and has never been the enemy, but to those who had their butts kick many years ago, and who are still complaining because they continue to get their butts kicked by this small country. The UN is afraid of offending the Middle East when in fact it should be standing up to these cry-baby countries such as Iran, who's only way to get their way is to terrorize innocent citizens, and through lies that they claim others have made. The British sailors were well within Iraqi waters and to force the sailors to say otherwise is the work of a childish government that cannot get their way any other way. The rest of the world should say enough is enough and just finish off Iran once and for all. It is time for all Brits to stand up and reverse the trend that the West has fallen into, and stand up for yourselves and quit letting a Iran push you around.
Greg, Knoxville, USA/TN
Just out of curiosity, didn't the west bring Iran's current regime to power sort of like with Osama bin laden? What exactly are we trying to do here? Our government keeps destroying and rebuilding and then destroying what we built because it didn't turn out the way we wanted it to. Like little children with legos. Well, actually it seems more like instant graticfication, we use them, then don't need them anymore so we dump them. I just don't seem to understand what's going on and please don't tell me it's cause Iran (insert any country we are currently battling) is a barbaric nation of some sort beacuse I've heard the terrorist! terrorist! battle call a million times to justify our reasons to invade anywhere we please. I am beginning to feel that it's more than "terrorism" or "evil." And I'm growing tired of it all. I feel like I'm living in an Iran-like country with all this talk of destroying "evil" If anything Iran is a western country too because they believe in evil just as we do.
Sarah, California, USA
Britain has no business being in the Persian Gulf area. It's marines and navy act like pirates. Iran is very much justified to stop these pirates from harrasing civilian shipping.
What would the Royal Navy do if Iranian ships start patrolling off the coast of England?
If Balir wants his pirates back he needs to ask Bush to shut up and not make nay comments on this issue and then demand the USA to release the 5 Iranian hhostages it's been hloding since early January.
PapaAce, USA,
as long as there is supression in the middle east ther will be reginoal power struggle the stronger will prevail ,so opressed pepole will always look for protection by regional powers, if no change in the west policies occur this situation will prevail ,unless adramatic action is taken with resolve then the area will see peace &prosperity.
raad aziz khalil, baghdad, Iraq
As an Iranian I rather have Iran dealing with internal issues such as human rights and poverty. Let these foreigners go home!
I should remind you that your anger has forced you to use a hollywood movie 300 as part of your argument. Perhaps you should use the "true" events of Braveheart or Patriot.
Me, London,
Mr Earl-Aine - God forbid that the UK or US should be regarded as corrupt or self-serving.....never. Went into Iraq to spread freedom and democracy (great job) not because we need oil and all Bush's pals are all benefiting from oil contracts. Self-serving? Corrupt? Iran contra, Saudi Bae, support for Sadam, support for Pinnochet, Support for Musharraf, support for the Saudis, attempted assaisanations of Castro etc etc - no, none of this is corrupt or self-serving. Just democracy, US style.
R. Hayes, London,
Interesting point of view. From my review of history, the persians (Iran) has not invaded anyone in say the last 1000 years. I am sure it is much more than that, but this is a safe number. The british, on the other hand, seems to have invaded everyone and anyone in the last 300 years. Heck, they even supported piracy on the high seas. Whom is really in the wrong here???
A, Jacksonville, United States
Please for goodness sake stop saying Iran wants to wipe Israel off the map, Ahmadinjad said he wants the Zionist government displaced..... many who have witnessed Palestinian and Arab suffering due to the ZIonist agenda may well agree.
Ask yourselves, having seen the news clips over the past 5 years, would you prefer to be hostage of the Iranians, paraded on TV alive, well fed and smiling (and will be realeased as has happened with US hostages in 1980 and Uk hostages in 2004) or apprehended illegally and taken to one of the many illegal and inhumane jails USA has set up around the world, including Guantanmo bay.
On a stretch of the Persian Gulf where the borders are infamously hard to establish, Iran believed that the Uk soldiers were on the wrong side. Iran is making a point, having seen the Persian Gulf invaded by foreign armies who bring death, division and terror in their wake.
roya, london, uk
There was a time when good people and nations (U.S, UK, Europe by and large) stood up to evil and drew a line, if anyone crossed that line they got blown back to the stone age. It is high time we drew the line with Iran, no weapons, no sponsoring terrorists, nothing like that. What if we had stopped Hitler after he overthrew the german constitution? What if we stopped standing by during the Darfur genocide and the Rwanda genocide?
Many more innocent people would be alive today. Achmedinejad (or however you spell his name) is evil, genocidal and needs to be delt with.
P.S A law is being considered in Iran that would require all Jews, Christians and Zoarastrians to wear identifying badges. The last man to do that was called Adolf Hitler.
Do the math
Mark, Rocky Hill, CT, United States of America
The whole world politics will change after bush and blair leave the office. its not jut 15 detainees issue. its issue of fight between middle east radicals some western arrogant. these arrogant are trying to implement democracy with their arm power than convincing them. why western countries telling middle east to implement democracy, why they are not trying to convince the same to their closest Saudi Arabia?. western politician should stop miss using democracy for their capitalist. why western are silent again Israel nuclear bomb. hell educated people in history we saw bad people in all religion, race and region. wake up Europe and America, stop making someone evil. think of bio gas that middle east oil. think of that where you are wrong. i oppose Iran for detention of 15.
prash, india,
Every word in the Bible is true! President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad will prove he is the Antichrist. If he is allowed to aquire a nuclear bomb all of a sudden the suicide bombings in Irag will cease. He will be labeled a peacemaker temporarally & demand to be "worshipped "as a hero. Most will see right through his charade & rufuse to worship a gangster & he will use his weapons of mass destruction on Israel. This is when Jesus will return. Because God promised to protect Israel. God has not lied yet. Don't bet him starting if Israel is attacked.
Henry , Los Angeles, USA California
The West is just too hypocratic. I would believe the Iranians when they say UK soldiers passed into Iranian waters. The West has a 500 year old known history of interfering into other state's affairs.
The problem with the Western powers is that they try to do everything so that everything suits their own interests.
The current problem from Zimbabwe, to Sudan to Somalia and the emerging problem in Nepal (where the West has aided the Indians to throw away the Monarch and Democracy so that India can have it's puppet government there) are all the problems created by West. The hypocrites should understand that they are not the rulers of the World but they are merely one of the players in it. You kill others and others kill you. It's a fair game. Give up violence, adopt peace and humanity, YOU FOOLS! Be sensible to other cultures.
Hick, France,
Well, if we're going to go back to Mossadegh and his flirtation with the Tudeh (real reason he was overthrown, not just to protect BRITISH oil interests), then let's bring up tossing our the Shah's father in 1941 for being a Nazi sympathizer, or Truman throwing the Russians out of Northern Iran (which they had occupied during the war). Two or three years after the Mossadegh affair, Britain and France invaded Egypt to try and prevent the nationalization of the Suez Canal.
When it comes down to naked imperialism, the US has a lot to learn from Europeans.
Stephen Moore, Dallas, Maine
If I was Iranian, I would be deeply embarrassed by Ahmadinejad and his government's cretinous approach to international relations. Taking hostages illegally and parading them in public shows the intelligence and strategic faculties of a small child.
The man is a menace, and his behaviour demonstrates how absolutely imperative it is that the international community prevents him from developing nuclear weapons. Negotiating with Iran is difficult enough at the best of times, but can you imagine what it would be like if these theocratic idiots got their hands on the bomb?
Sabremesh, London,
The comparisons with other despotic countries falls short of the point. Iran is a Theocracy! Europe's experience with that in the past should be sufficient to scare everyone. It is unfortunate that the current US policy is the realm of religious fanatics under this administration and led by someone that appears severly mentally deficient. Fortunately, Bush will be gone soon, but not soon enough. However, the damage that they have done cannot be allowed to help any Theocracy to obtain nuclear weapons. It is bad enough that Theocrats in the US have access to them. More are not needed! There never has been a moral aspect to International intrusions by anyone in history. Why look for them now? Every invasive group has done what it thought necessary for it's survival. Stop wallowing in words and decide what to do and do it (either way). At least one person brought up Neville Chamberlain. Take that route or another. The EU and USA are worthless for Britain.
Amana, Wheaton, USA/IL
Blair to Tehran:
"Here's a list of your top ten oil producing assets (refineries, pipelines, terminals, etc.)."
"You have twety-four hours to release the HOSTAGES (not captives) or every 12 hours one of these assets will cease to exist."
R. Hastings, Eugene, Oregon, USA
Tim forgets we are plenty of Arabs while they will not accept a western invasion of their countries. We are weak because we strangers at home. There many posts who ask what happened to UK or EU, but the reply is simply that we are no more save at home. Do you image what could happen with a UK attack to Iran? Muslims are not evil, they are simply more intelligent than us. They understand we are weak, because we want to be weak and they do their grame. Why not?
Piero, Turin, Italy
I dont have much to say except the time for super powers is over en the new world can only be rulled by showing respect. You should ask yourself why the iranians do this? Answer has nothing with history, etc. when you take their diplomats fomr their embassy just like that out and charge them, you can definately expect that somewhere in the world, they will pick up your poeple. If we dont provoke, we then will not be the victum. And if we do, it is only a matter of time before we also taste it. A new world is emerging where superpowers can only keep their position if and when they repect othernations. Ask yourself, how come after so many deads in iraq and Palestine, there has been no UN resolution, and now for 15 people, a UN resoulution has been asked. Stop playing double standard with the world, it will work against our nations. We need the East and they need us.
Ali, Amsterdam, Netherlands
For those of you who forgot what Nazi Germany looked like before WWII, look no further then Iran.
Economic crisis - check
Hateful ideology - check
Loonatic leader - check
Racial superiority fairy tales (persian) - check
Bullying and manipulation - check
Impotent League of Nations - check
Exit question - where is your Churchill, oh Britain?
Russian, Front, State of War
To the US contributors - can I come and live in your country please?
Mine has become a pathetic shadow of it's former self. And as for our so called European allies..........
Atlantic Dave, southampton, UK
Has everybody forgotten about the ouster by the West, Britain the bastion of democracy and freedom included, of Dr Mossadeq the legally elected Iranian leader?
The tyrannical Shah was parachuted in and ruled with an iron fist until ousted.
"What you sow so shall you reap."
Brian P O Cinneide, Durban, South Africa
This only makes Iran feel it can bully larger nations. Of course the UN which has not been a force since Korea, can not lead a marching band let alone a world governments. In the end it will end with blood shed.
Mike, Chicago, USA
Is this worse than holding 'guilty' people for years before proving their guilt?
Sure, the hostages guilty pleas are likely to be unreliable, but Iran is not the first country to interrogate witnesses under controversial circumstances.
Some would say Iran is making a statement against the West's supposed democratic ways...
Patrick Bateman, London,
The Iranian President was elected in a reasonably fair election. Fact.
Ben, York,
The Iranians are looking for everyway possible to control the middle east. This will give them the tool they need. As an American, I feel that both America and Britain will be undone by our own kindness. If alive today, I wonder what dear old Winston would say?
Daniel, Casa Grande, USA
What the British have overlooked in this saga is that their 'defense' lies in the claim that the boat was in Iraqi waters....a place where they have as little legal reason to be as they do in Iranian waters. They should be in British waters.
Maybe a couple of days interrogation at Gitmo will clarify matters.
George, Washington, USA
Dear Editor
While there is a quarrel between Goverments, why do you extend it to the whole nation of the countries. 300 is not true, I believe you know it better, what I cannot understand is how and why did you find the relation between 300 and the goverment and the poor people.
John Zad, London,
Only a barbaric nation would randomly grab people on spurious charges and treat them in a way which would make them feel the need to "confess" anything, for the sake of being released
How about the confessions of the inmates at Guantanamo?
R. Hayes, London,
Looks like we'll have to put together an armed force and sort the Iranians out.
300 soldiers should do it......
Hero, Preston,
Well said Michael;
I was beginning to think I was all alone when it comes to the USA being giving a bad rap.
What other country in history has acted in less self interest, when it came to protecting the rights of others.
What would the world be today if the USA had not intervened in WW1, WW2, and the Cold war?
Al , Mississauga, canada ontario
As for Sheeva in London, it is quite comical to describe Americans as "boys who like to play with guns". It seems to this history reader that if not for us, Europe would have a distinctive Soviet influence. After they took over from the Nazis, that is.
James Newman, dallas, texas usa
For goodness sake,where is our backbone?
"Speak for England" someone before we all end with sharia law,and need an El Cid!
delboy, coventry, england
Dr Khan seems to forget those people at Guantanamo are terrorists....
W Kelsey, New York, NY
I'm just wondering what slight of hand they are pulling while everyone else is focused on the hostage situation.
Jim, Houston, TX
Some one here wants to get real. USA and Britain think that they can tell any country in the Middle east what to use, what to do etc...Why? when they themselves are such Hypocrites. Diplomacy starts with the word Negotiate not TELL them what to do. Iran does not have to do anything A request would work better than TELLING.
G. Lodder, ariege, France
My son , walk not thou with them, restrain thy foot from their paths. For their feet run to evil, & make haste to shed blood.
The fool immediately sheweth his anger: but he that is wise hearkeneth unto counsels
Proverbs 1:15,16
12:15
Release them mahmoud, you are the hound provoking the tiger.
suffattsheleg, taquan, ak.
'The Iranian Navy has traditionally been the smallest branch of Iran's armed forces. ' (Wikipedia)
Can't be easy being in the Iranian Navy (hardly the glorious fleets of Nelson etc.) let them have their fun.
Don't think we should leave anywhere until we have our troops back, whatever it takes.
Bill Bird, Wallasey, United Kingdom of Great Britain
Excellent article - and people, even within the UK, wonder why England is not part of the EU. Come on!!
Jim Bert, San Francisco, USA
First, lets get the history right. Sparta was a state devoted to military training and the most well known democracy in Greece (Athens) later fell by the sword of Sparta. Persia on the other hand, at this time in history, had just written the world’s first known human rights act.
In 1953 the democratically elected prime minister of Iran, Dr. Mohammed Mosaddeq, was overthrown by a CIA coup with British support just when he had nationalized the oil industry. After the Shah refused to sign up to a long term oil contract with British Petroleum (BP) he also allegedly lost the support of the west and BBC Persian radio started talking about Khomeini, of whom few Iranians had heard of before.
Iraq used chemical weapons against Iranian troops during most of the Iran-Iraq war in the 1980’s. But the public outcry in the west against Iraq only came after the attack on the Kurdish village of Halabja in 1988. Also in 1988 the civilian Iran Air
So why should we be surprised?
Carl-Magnus Nilsson, Southampton,
Here here, Mr. Thames. Well said.
R. Hayes (and all other apologists) - please move to the country you morally equate with ours. If you truly see no difference between us and them then please move there and send me a letter in ten years and let me know how it went.
The3rdMan, Manhattan,
Wake up and smell the coffee, Europe. You've got commenters on this very article-- ostensibly from London-- who are more worried about Israel (the one democracy in the region) than about the fact that serving British military personnel have just been seized by fanatical loons bent on obtaining nukes.
Britain is certainly taking this opportunity to teach Iran a valuable lesson about this kind of aggressive, lawless behavior, i.e., it works.
If the west doesn't avail itself of this opportunity to smack Iran's pee-pee very, very hard, we're all going to pay the price, sooner rather than later.
David, Silver Spring, Maryland, USA
He's right... Why ARE we suprised?? Basically the same things have been happening for years and we act like we had no idea! The only way to get through to a bully is to stand up to them. It's just an opinion, but why is any other part of the world buying from or selling to Iran? Cut them off for a little while and let them feel the pain of fending for themselves in every aspect...and also they would be feeling the pain of not having any revenue. Let them see who has the power? Diplomacy only works when you have a receptive counterpart. They don't want to work it out! They like to watch the rest of the world squirm.
Leslie Smith, Birmingham, AL
So it was "weakness" to force into exile the Shah who was, dare I mention it, imposed on Iran after the CIA and MI6 toppled its democratically elected government? Perhaps it might be suggested that this was the real mistake? Oh, hang on though, Mossadegh wanted to nationalise the Iranian oil industry, didn't he, and that would never do. We needed someone there who would allow US/UK oil companies in instead. Anything else is "weakness". Enter the Shah. There's "contempt for the democratic world" for you.
And now it's happening all over again, isn't it Tim? What's the link between now and then, and the link with Saddam? And who is investing heavily in the Iranian oil industry, while America can't, unless it invades the place and takes control of its oil? oh its on the tip of my tongue.. China, isn't it?
But rather than mention all this, let's have a game of "Let's pretend" instead.
Tony B, Eastbourne , England
Anglos must possess in their genes a "denial" marker, perhaps named Beowulf. Blair is the marshmallow against Iran. Suddenly it occurs to him he no longer has at his back a committed America. We drew him into the fight, then left him on his own. The isolation party is in power here. America voted to completely reverse policy. Bush has no power, implicitly barred from defending anyone from Ahmadinajad. Blair's foundation disappeared over night. A different outcome would have prevented this hostage-taking. Will those Brits who today oppose resistance, support tomorrow their own forced conversion in this second Muslim invasion of Europe? Unltimately, the West is being defeated by the psychological conversion of self-preservation to racism.
Seneca, Littleton, Colorado
Dear Editors, I support the view expressed in the article.
Bullys will always be bullys. Osama Bin Laden thought he could get away with 9/11, because he did actually get away with bombing 2 emabassies in Tanzania and Kenya and attacking a ship. Saddam is now hanged, but he also thought he could get away with including Kuwait to his territory. Iran has no respect for Britain. They dictated that a british writer (Rushdi) is not allowed to express his view, and the West is not allowed to publish it. They shot the first publisher who published The Satanic Verses , the Norwegian William Nygaard. (he survived after being hit by 18 bullets) . This has not resulted in any consequences for Iran. The West is eager to do business with them. As Stalin put it: "the Capitalists will sell you the rope which they will be hanged with" If UK shows determination and strength and puts economic pressure (EU) on Iran, and at the same time put some military pressure on them, problem solved!
Jan G Gundelach, Oslo, Norway
You rather coyly mention Jimmy Carter and the political change in Iran at that time. It is easy to overlook the fact that the Americans seem to have aided and abetted the rise of militant Islam in the Middle East. They certainly aided and abetted the rise of Saddam Hussein, so one could say that if the Americans aren’t designing their own foreign policy they are instigating it. This is perhaps inevitable with a country as disproportionately powerful as the United States but clearly they prefer this condition. No Presidential candidate would get near the White House on an isolationist ticket. On the other hand, if Americans are complaining about foreign affairs, they could easily reduce their involvement by that preference. The same applies to the British.
Henry Percy, London, UK
I think these comments added is just trying to BULLY a writer who speaks the truth. THE TRUTH HURTS DONT IT? Keep up the good work Tim.
Nic, Chicago, IL USA
America and the UK did not create the mess in Persia and the Middle East alone... all of Europe contributed. Who created Israel? The UN did with resolution 242. Why were so many jews fleeing to that part of the world? Partly because they were being slaughtered in Europe and they had nowhere to go. Who created the arbitrary borders of all the countries in the Middle East? There is plenty of blame to go around regarding who has messed things up in that part of the world. Let's just get passed that.
Previous commentator from Montreal is right... the media likes to portray the US as the big baddie in the world... Seems to me like many Europeans are good at forgetting what got us here... its just easier to blame America.
The world and the UN need to address the situation. America can not just blindly support Israel. Maybe the UN needs to look back and re-consider the decision to create a country out of nowhere (as if they even had the authority to do so.)
August, Bozeman, Montana, USA
Iran imports a large percentage of it gasoline since it
only has one refinery. With a cruise missile lodged at
it then they will be like everyone else. They will have to import
all their gasoline. They will be at the mercy of the world market.. Then maybe the people of Iran will rise up and change
the leadership. Remember that they can still export their
oil but will have to import all their gasoline. And refinery
take several years to build. Just a thought.....
Matt Whitaker, Lexington, SC
I'm mesmerized ...
It seems that some Islamics have found the magic and inspiration to force Americans and British to become tactically compulsive and strategically blind ...
That's not so crude to me ..
Ariel Tejera, Mexico city, Mexico
Sir,
Barbaric despotic actions?
Violations of international law?
People in glass houses should not throw bricks. Lets not forget the barbaric despotism that has seen the US fund and support terrorists in Nicaragua, or turn a blind eye when thousands of Lebanese are killed by Israeli soldiers, or the death of thousands of innocent civilians simply excused as 'collateral damage' or the illegal, immoral and oh so 'democratic' and 'legal' detention and torture of countless people in Gitmo.
how much contempt for democracy and the rule of law have the US shown over the last 25 years? Iran may well be behaving in a barbaric way - assuming of course we accept the hostages were not in Iranian waters (and that's far from certain), but we lost any right to the moral high ground many years ago. Our actions have been just as despotic, barbaric and undemocratic as we now claim are Iran's.
R. Hayes, London,
Wow. This would be amusing, if not for the war-mongering subtext.
Sorry, but I don't have much sympathy for the "We weren't in Iranian waters -- we were in IRAQI waters!" argument. About as absurd as Bush talking about the "foreign fighters" in Iraq -- if not for all these "foreigners" coming in here with weapons, everything would be fine! ... Oh, wait .....
I can't speak for the UK, but I can promise you that if Iran were to try one tenth of what the U.S. is doing right now in that region, we would not simply capture and interrogate a few soldiers, we would destroy the ships, killing everyone aboard, and then proceed to bomb the country from which the ship originated... Etc.
I actually think Iran is being rather amiable, under the circumstances.
Furthermore, if you were Iran, wouldn't you want nukes, to deter being attacked? I would.
ungeziefer, Minneapolis, USA
Time has come to bring Maggie back.
The british government, by pussyfooting about is making Great Britain the laughing stock of the western world. The Blair govenment has cut down on the navy, deep cuts that leave it weaker than the french navy.
May be it is time to invest back in the armed forces, build the Queen Elizabeth class carriers, increase funding for the Daring class destroyers, convert the Invincible class carriers into missile cruisers. If Blair wants an influential Britain he should invest in the armed forces.
A weak Britain is also detrimental to the special relations equation with the United states making it more of a liability than an asset.
In Israel a soldier knows that if and when he or she are taken captive the government will do all in it's power to bring the back.
You people have forgotten what it is like to be a nation.
You and your foulish multiculturism.
Albion should be returned to the English.
Yaron Rosenstein, Haifa, Israel
Well said, Tim.
Don, Ballwin, Missouri, USA
Congraltulations on your brave and true words !!!
Unfortunatley, your job is nof finished.
As, unless you would bring me a very good explanation, I can not understan Britain foreign policy path.
Are they so naive that, they trully believe that UN or EU would back them against Iran ?
Would you be so kind to clarify what is happening with your leaders ?
Alberto Cohen, Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
There will be no conflict between muslim nations and Europe in 50 years time.
By then, Europe will be a muslim nation.
t lowe, birmingham, uk
I am amazed at the gullibility of some of the people who have commented on this column. The fact of the matter is that the Iranians have acted with much more humanity and civility towards the Prisoners they have taken than the way in which our forces in Iraq have acted towards many of the civilian detainees that they have arrested. We only need to ask the family of Baha Mousa, who was beaten to death while in the custody of British Forces in Iraq. The treatment of our service personnel (apart from being shown on television) by the Iranians has surely been much more civilised and humane and even hospitable, when compared to the treatment of the inmates of Abu Ghraib prison by their American captors. I wonder if Mr. Hames would like to ask Mr. Bisher Al-Rawi, recently released from the concentration camp called Guantanamo bay whether he would have liked to change places with one of our Marines held captive in Iran. Mr. Hames and his clique may be able to fool some people but not all.
Dr. Navidul Haq Khan, London, United Kingdom
Dear Editors,
I may be wrong on this, but you might want to check the opinion offered by Kourosh, above. Seems to me to be obliquely making anti-semitic references...but you decide. Not sure the Times really wants that as part of its commentary content....
Nancy, Toronto, Canada
What nonsense!!!!!! a defeatist attitude will get you nowhere except more wanton threats and barbaric actions from these Iranian savages.
Deal with them as Ronald Reagan dealt with them. Strike their infrastructure and demolish their one and only oil refinery. If these goat-herders want to go back to living in the 7th century then by all means lets help them get there.
ZulfikarAli, Abidjan ,
It seems the British have always had this strange craving for trouble. Whenever you hear of any international incident, you'll also hear the word Britain. It's time, I think, that you stopped messing around in places far enough from your beloved islands. The world (that doesn't include the UK and the US, of course) is quite fed up with the good image of English and/or American soldiers that you try to impose on our minds. Iran's "politically incorrect, evil and terrorist president", Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, may be all what "politically correct, humane and anti-terrorist" journalists and politicians say about him. It is true; this man approves of the development of nuclear weapons, uses harsh words to criticize other countries' presidents, and what not. Well, at least this Iranean embodiment of evil hasn't destroyed and burned to ashes whole countries like Iraq and Afghanistan. I love British culture but I'll just never embrace the ways you deal with international affairs/issues.
Juan José, Córdoba, Argentina
Behaviour of Tehran over the past ten days has been akin to that of a one-dimensional barbaric despotism"
The above statement sums up the problem.
Take deterrent action against Iran or else face the barbaric behaviour and actions from Iran and some more often. If UK bends and compromises, there will be no end except too many humiliations.
Krishna R. Kumar, Udupi, India
I like GDB from London's perscription. Shall we all hold hands and sing Kumbaya?
Stop acting like an empire? I have some news for you- no one thinks we are, not even us. I think handing Hong Kong back more or less put an end to that idea.
Cut our special relationship with America? I have news. Most Americans think they should cut their special relationship with the world. You know, the one that has kept all we lovely Europeans sleeping comfortably in our beds for sixty years? Instead of moaning about our obligations as an ally, start thinking about all the crap that America gets pulled into because its the only democracy that was willing and able to build up its defenses against the Soviets. What a joy . The only time we approve (or rather insist) on it getting involved militarily is when it has absolutely no national interests in doing so. We couldn't even handle Bosnia or Kosovo. Mother Europe!
Michael , London, UK
I have always believe the world should never let Iran go nuclear.Imagine what it can do in the light of the recent capture of British sailors.THE WORLD MUST RISE!
NAN , Ikoyi, Lagos,Nigeria
Of course their objections are consistent. To destroy the western liberal world and remake it in their own hideous image. The actions of Iran have always had that ultimate goal in mind. that idea seems so wholly irrational to our sensibilities that we consistently seek to downplay and delegitimise their avowed intentions to harm us, whether by describing their daily pronouncements of destruction as madness or by creating an us and them moderate and radical dichotomy that has never existed, but allows some comfort to believe that they really don't all hate us for what we are and that they really don't wish us dead. It must be said that a lot of the problems are created by us in our refusal to treat them seriously and their exploitation of our own perceived weaknesses when attempting to reconcile their monohatred system of government and society with modern liberal democracy. A reaffirmation of the values that protect and enshrine our lives and liberties is necessary to combat this.
Neil, Sydney, Aus
It sometimes takes national humiliation to bring a country to its senses. The sight of our servicemen making grovelling apologies for 'crimes' they did not commit is the most demeaning and humiliating spectacle that I have seen in many a long year. The manner in which they were apprehended by a handful of Iranian gunboats without resistance and under the supposed protection of a frigate and an armed helicopter is a very poor reflection, not to say a disgrace, on the part of the Royal Navy. The chickens of PC indoctrination and risk-averse training and culture are coming home to roost. In this context 'chickens' is an appropriate phrase to use.
One good thing can come from this debacle if the nation rejects the feckless and debauched elites who have been running our affairs these past years and gives our defences and the forces of law and order the backbone and the resources they need.
Anthony Back, Wellington, Telford, England
Absolutely right Tim, and yet the more I read, the more depressed I get when I realise that there are still the mass of brainwashed out there who would try to appease or in some way justify such disgusting and yes, uncivilised by ANY standards , behaviour.
We can no longer just stand back and smile indulgently on such hatred and bigotry as displayed by this Islamic Fundamentalist regime. There will be no choice unless real unity is displayed by those opposed to it. But will the UN or the EU do anything - of course not, most of the members of the UN would be perfectly happy to see Israel the only true democracy in the region wiped off the face of the earth and let's not forget the 'charming' French 'diplomat' who called it a 'shitty little country'.
If history has taught us one thing it is that you cannot negotiate with evil - what a pity we still haven't learnt the lesson
Jay, London,
We should regard the marines as prisoners of war now.
Rather than bend over backwards and pay any price for their return we should take a lesson from the Israelis.
The only way they have attained some peace on their northern border after years of attacks and attempted (and of course the successful)kidnappings, was to say enough is enough and pulverise Iran's proxies where they found them.
We must realise that we have been in a war for many years now. Radical Islam is on the march and will not give up until the caliphate is established in the West as well as in Iran's immediate env