Scotland must be independent. It has a different political culture to England and each country should be able to plot it's own course. The union is a contrivance. Scaling Britain down to it's four parts would be liberating for each country and would also have big advantages to the English - ridding them of the burden of world power pretensions as well as the costs of propping up public spending in Scotland, Wales and NI.

Will Clouston, Corbridge, UK

Flamingo wrote: "For more than a century Wallonia helped Flanders keep up"

Not entirely true. It's been told like that but studies have shown that per capita, Flemings have always contributed more in taxes,... than Walloons, even in the times when Flander's economy was very poor. Flanders always paid more than their share.

Jules, Brussels,

Scots do have a chip on their shoulder. For Scots there is no solidarity. We cheer when Scotland win at football, but they pray for us to lose. They mostly hate the English, however if you go there, then they are a really friendly people - whereever you are from.

The break up of the United Kingdom would destroy something special. However if that is what the Scots decide, then let us see them govern without tax subsidy from the South East. Get real Scotland, there is not much more oil - better look at wind power.

I think that both Scotland and the rest of the UK are in a mutually beneficial relationship, and both would suffer by break up.

T. Weir, Stonehouse, Scotland,

I just wish that Scotland would stop talking about independence and do something about it. The vote for the SNP was a first step. I hope they will now go all the way and declare independence. We English should do the same. Most English people feel that the Union should be ended. Lets do it! Home Rule for England!

Derek, Southampton, England

Scotland must be independent. It has a different political culture to England and each country should be able to plot it's own course. The union is a contrivance. Scaling Britain down to it's four parts would be liberating and would also have advantages to the English - ridding them of the burden of world power pretentions.

Will Clouston, Corbridge, England

The UK Government tweaked the maritime border between England and Scotland in 1968, without consulting the English. It was called the "Continental Shelf Act" and was based on the assumption that the UK would continue and the resources would be shared. If England and Scotland split, the border must be corrected, giving England back its full share of the oil.

I'm surprised at the hostility and scapegoating of England that features in this thread - both from within the UK and abroad.

Chris Abbott, Cambridge, England

Big Issue ! Big Issue !

Edinburgh, Edinburgh, that-far-away-dreamy-land

I would prefer Scotland to exist outside the EU and prosper like Norway and Switzerland...

Graeme, Edinburgh,

I have to laugh at the English that think their taxes pay for every other part of the UK. Without the city of London your economy is nothing - an underplanned, underinvested, undereducated disaster area fuelled by cheap debt and cheap Chinese imports.. so not sure where all your tax revenues are coming from..? You all been reading the Daily Mail again? I think Scotland might want to keep her oil and gas (it is Scotland's - international boundary commissions agree) and industries - bye!!

Jock McTavish, Glasgow, Scotland

Per capita Belgium has delivered more Nobel prize winners, more top artists and more extremely valuable cultural goods than the UK. So mind your words a bit. We're also much wealthier than Great Britain and our social and educational systems systematically rank top of the class (UK always scores horribly low).
But these basics aside, it would be an economic disaster for Belgium to split up. Analyses show that Flanders would be the world's wealthiest country (on all fronts), but that Wallonia would lose a whopping 25%. For more than a century Wallonia helped Flanders keep up; today it's the opposite (with the closure of heavy industries in the South) and we spend billions to help the Walloons. This is called solidarity, and we should keep it working.
Egoism and a purely utilitarian, pragmatic look at society and the economy is not part of my set of values. Solidarity and fraternity is much more important.

Yours, a Flemish Belgian, European and world citizen

Flamingo, Brussels, Belgium

I don't understand the references to the chip on Scots shoulders.

Most Scots seem very cheerful with genuine enthusiasm and friendliness.

It seems to me that many of the English are the real whingers. They come across as the bitter and miserable ones. Just read the posts on this thread and others on this topic.

All we hear from them these days are complaints about how they are ruled by outsiders. Stop acting like victims and get rid of the chip on your shoulders.

Sylvie, Paris, France

Scotland, like Wallonie, could become new parts of France..

vive la old alliance!

Christophe Navech, Toulouse, France

The EU has changed everything. Scotland will prosper just as
any other small nation member has,in fact probably moreso.
The divide will become inevitable if and when a Tory (or Not Labour) Party forms a Govenment in England.
The real change is,and will continue to be, the demographics of England..
I lived in Edinburgh in the early 60`s and can remember a rather feeble SNP. They were not given a 2nd look. They will win the next election outright, Scotland is a different nation the sooner we English accept and embrace that notion so much the better for us all,

Peter Bolt, Redditch, UK

And yes it seems the author of this article probably never visited belgium then he would be able to taste all of the beers and dont say there wont be 1 that he will like ;-) if so then he doesnt drink alcohol. ALso Belgium delivers the best chocolate of the world cause its 1 of the few that produces chocolate only with cacao vet instead of other things brought into the production of chocolate. See AMBAO sign- on true belgian chocolate. Some of the best culinary schools of europe are located in Belgium aswell ( ww.icsb.be)..compared to england where ive seen videos how they serve meals there and what the children get as a meal is quit sad.

tGp, Kortrijk, West-Flanders

"ts sickly beer and sicklier chocolate"
You lost all credibility there.

"Sinn Fein, a party committed to removing Ulster from the UK and merging it with the Republic of Ireland."
Last time I looked the Ulster counties of Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal were not in the UK.

On the weekend that a Belgian won her 7th tennis grand slam I would have thought all British Tims would not dare to sneer at Belgians. The irony.

S. Quinlivan, Brussels,

Under the 1978 Vienna Convention, Scotland would not automatically become a member of EU. Scotland would, under that treaty, be a "newly independent state", not a "successor state" as SNP leaders like to claim. Accordingly, under Article 17 of that Convention, Scotland would have to gain the permission of all parties to be an EU member - meaning London would have a veto.

Why wouldn't a Tory government in London condition its approval Scottish membership in the EU on, say, London retaining sovereignty over an autonomous Shetlands, with the royalties on the oil continuing to flow to London? And require Scotland shoulder a full share of British EU dues while getting none of the British rebate? And so on?

After all, there would be no advantage for the English in being a good neighbor instead of driving the best bargain for themselves. Nobody in Westminster will have to worry about the votes of Scots living in an independent Scotland.

Steven Ehrbar, El Paso, TX, United States

Scotland doesn't have oil; the Shetland Islands, which have never voted SNP, have oil. Scotland is not a net contributor to the British Exchequer; the Shetland Islands, which have never voted SNP, are a net contributor. Rosy independence scenarios are all predicated on the Shetlands choosing to remain Scottish, instead of seeking an accommodation with London.

And Scotland, under the 1978 Vienna Convention, would be a newly independent state, not a successor state. London would be the capital of the successor state. So London could lock Holyrood out of the EU, NATO, etc., if it so chose. Independence will accordingly have to be settled on English terms, not Scottish ones.

Steven Ehrbar, El Paso, TX, USA

English Independence now !

... i'd quite happily waive goodbye to Scotland, Wales and N Ireland.

England on its own would be the 4th largest country in the EU in terms of population and would no doubt be better off financially and in regards to 'social cohesion' if England had a clear national identity.

If this makes life better for the Scots, Welsh and Irish then great , if not, then its their problem to sort out and not ours ...

Woody, Canterbury, Kent

Why has no one mentioned setting up a federal system? Each of the four home countries could have the same powers over their "domestic" agendas, with the economy, foreign policy and defence being debated in Westminster.

I can't really understand how the Labour Party is being cast as the only saviour of the Union

Hugh, Orlando, Florida

Forget Scotland leaving the UK if things stay the way they are then it could be England leaving the UK.

I would welcome that.

Kevin, Deal, ENGLAND

Mr. Hames' comments are disingenuous.
Belgium excels at producing over 1000 varieties of beer and its chocolate is equally world-renowned. Not bad for a country that's two and a half times smaller than Scotland.

Name Withheld, Belgium,

All this rhetoric is a bit late, it's been discussed on "The Scotsman" website for months. Scotland will go her way, England hers, neither can stop the progress already made. We've grown up as a nation, accept it as Runrig sing "all things must change" SAOR ALBA

Daisy, Naples, Italy

If beer and chocolate are the measure of a country, where does that put Britain ?

Jamie, Ghent, Belgium

'Dismemberment'? Is there any need to be this visceral about the body politic?

David, Cardiff, Wales, U.K.

Apart from the royal family and first generation immigrants, does anybody consider themselves British anymore?

Mick, Swansea,

A devolved Scotland was supposed to accept the Labour leader sent to them by Tony & Gordon.That way Labour would never get out of power again. Along came Salmond and spoiled their clever plan. Let all of the countries in the Union Vote to keep or dissolve the Union that way we just might get rid of the snivelling Scots and the whinging Welsh. Come on somebody step forward and start the English National Party. you will be derided for it just as Hague, Duncan-Smith Howard were racist when talking about immigration during election campaigns. Has anyone seen the times today? Gordon can talk about British jobs for British people BUT he isnt racist.........no?

Grace Garratt, Rugby, England

"By the way Scotland doesn't own one jot of North sea oil - so hands off jock. It belongs to England."

yet another person with no grasp of UN maritime borders. Go smoke another one bro'.

Graeme, Edinburgh,

A secession of Scotland from the UK and its reestablishment as an independent state will more or less encourage the other constituent 'kingdoms' of the UK aka Northern Ireland to join the Irish Republic and Wales to become independent itself. It it will a knock on effect and jump start the total dismantling of the UK and the British Empire. It could be the greatest fall of an empire in human history. Ofcourse I strongly support this.

It will certaintly weaken England in the international stage with a smaller population, economy, political importance and most importantly fewer voting power in the EU which will weaken the American interference in the formation of a united Europe.

To Chris from Manchester
Since Scotland being in the EU already if it becomes independent all of its laws and regulations are in compliance with the EU it will be a matter of months or years for it to join the EU if the EU does not allow it to join outright for the same reason.

Andreas Andreou, Nottingham, England

Thank you for rediculising Belgium in your recent article.
By convincing your fellow-countrymen that boring Belgium is the worst place in Europe, at least we do not have to tolerate, like Spain, Portugal and France, the British that find their own country so fantastic, that they emigrate.
I have visited Britain enough to realise that. compared to Belgium it is a development country were the media divert their audience so much with smalltown gossib on pedofile teachers and lesbian nons, that most people do not see the state they are in.
If our beer makes you sick, you drank to much of it or you tasted a brand we export because we do not drink it ourselves.
Belgium, or whatever it may be called in the future, remains a great place to live and to raise children.
Anarchists and survivors as they are, Belgians, both Flemish and Walloons, don’t care if there is a government or not.
We are still having the time of our live and do business as usual

Martin Ghillemyn, Wevelgem, Belgium

My favourite Belgian is Adolphe Sax, who invented the saxophone. Jazz-lovers, rock'n'rollers and black people of the world, rejoice!

Adetola Obembe, Birmingham, UK

Yes please make flanders independent.
why? Enough of paying taxes to the wallonians who like to spend it on a wrong way.Alot of wallonians dont speak flemish or havent learned it on school though we have to learn french(lang. in wallonia) and last but most important our King isnt even a true belgian cause his grand father wasnt a belgian, and Our "beloved" King cant speak flemish (well some words but not the true flemisch like we all speak.)And belgium is just a bunch of galliers,germans, from everywhere and became 1 country. Its a joke that we already live to long with it.Alot of flemish soldiers died on WOI just because they didnt understand the wallonians who were the officers that gave orders in an other language (french).
Enough drama, time for action.
3 months ( and counting +) and still no governement cause the Wallonions dont agree with the flemsich demands.

Nick, Zwevegem, West-Flanders

Truthfully I must say I didn't read the entire article , the first paragraph was enough. As someone from Belgium, I'm shocked that the Times Tim Hames thinks he knows of the political landscape in my country. The reason why I didn't read any further (I just skimmed to the bottom), is that I don't have the pretence to think I know anything about british political culture (the notion of having a shadowminister is alien to me). Sure does Belgium has goverment forming problems, but only the hotheaded (and for a large part the media) ultra rightwing politicians call for an independent Flanders. This is just a political stunt, everyone with a realistic view knows that Belgium won't split, not in a 100 years. How come? Historcal background, oh and it's economically impossible. Just as Scottish and Brits "feel" what's going to happen to their country, I feel it for Belgium.

P.S.: I don't think brits have to point out how bad belgian chocolate and beer is, your food is ridiculously discusting.

Andries Van Damme, Antwerpen, Belgium, Flanders

I am English. I am fed up with the way we, the English are forced to pay for the Welsh and the Scottish. Free University education in Scotland, free prescriptions in Wales are only the tip of the iceberg. Have independance for all I care, see if you can manage without the extortionate subsidies that you take of the English to build pointless, overpriced parliament buildings. As far as I can tell the English would be taxed less if we let you go. Oh, and while I am at it, how come the English have to pay to enter Wales via the Severn Bridge but the Welsh can come to England for Free? I wonder who paid for that? And yes I know it is French owned but you can bet your bottom dollar that there was an English subsidy in there somewhere.

Matthew, warrington,

Thank you Tim Hames for telling us that the desire to have Englilah matters decided by an English assembly is Irrational. Seems pretty straight forward to me, and totally logical in view of the establishment of assemblies for the other countries of the UK.. However Tim Hames ignores the other question that is making Englishmen hot under the collar about the Union is the preferential financial treatment that Scotland is receiving. We all know the list - free university education, free care for the elderly, access to a wider range of drugs, and most recently better pay for Scottish nurses. Now Labour's Scottish leader tells us that this is not financial discrimination, but a choice of spending by the Scottish Parliament. However, nowhere have I seen a list of what people in Scotland are giving up to pay for the additional benefits they are receiving.
I want the continuance of the U.K. but not to the prejudice of English citizens who appear to bear the brunt of funding the Union.

Paul Catcheside, Fareham, Hants.

Matthew, Portsmouth,

Have you really read why? We were going to go and create the Panama Canal 300 years early and with the English too. Then at the last minute the English pulled out, fearing they would no longer have a monopoly on trade. The people of Scotland gave their own money to help the project. When they got there they set up a fort and were constantly attacked by the Spanish, when asked for help the English would not. When the Scots returned to Scotland they were refused help and refuge at the English ports on their way home, of the 10 ships, one returned. Suddenly the English offered the Scots a deal, the debt they had accrued for a union of parliaments.

So you bought an army, and a country and secured your northern border from the French, not a bad deal... and was it in fact planned as we would not have needed to join had you stayed in the project and it had succeeded or failed.

I suggest you read history more carefully.

Graeme, Edinburgh,

And wot makes the Scots think that some how this will end all nice and peaceful? "we'll be best buddies..."
There is plenty of peope in the UK - including the establishment - who simply will not let the UK break up, even if that means civil war.
To think otherwise is completely cuckoo. Do you really think that everyone just going to say 'all right then off you go!"
The first thing that will happen is the scot parliament will be closed down as it only operates on Westminister's say-so.
It will lead to a militarty coup
Then the army will be sent in to quell 'unrest'
Couldn't happen? Well its happened enough in Ireland!
If you are seeking to break up the country then you are simply a traitor under the law.
there are powerful forces in the uk that have nothing to do with the government of the day.
And the idea of being a separate people - suggest you look at English a telephone directory and see how many MCs are in
it. Smith is the most popluar name in scotland.

phil doherty, Newcastle, UK

"almost nothing enacted at Holyrood disturbs England" - except that we, the Ebnglish, always end up paying for Scots to have their little extras. Free care for the Elderly and Free University Education must be really nice for the Scots, especially when the English pay for it!

Conversely, Blair would not have been able to pass his legislation calling for English students to pay University fees, had it not been for the votes of his Scottish acolytes

So, Yes: we DO want only English MPs to vote on how English laws are enacted, and English money spent - if you really think that this is unreasonable then the sooner we manage to gain total independance from Scotland the better

Mike Bibby, St Albans, England -not EU

Its amazing that whenever Scottish independence is mentioned, Scots and Irishmen come teeming out of the woodwork to decry the evil British empire and compare it with Nazism. What they neglect to mention is the massively bigger proportion per capita of Sscots and Irishmen there were in the imperial administration, as industrialists exploiting workers here and abroad and of course the army which built the empire. It was a BRITISH empire not an English one. Waving the St Andrews flag or the Tricolour about doesnt cut it when compared with cold hard facts. Comparing the British Empire with Nazism is beneath contempt. Perhaps writers like Dublin9 would prefer a Stalinist state instead? The comparison is just as spurious.

SecularBrit, Sunderland, UK

Mmm... go see Norway and see what quality of life a small country such as Scotland could achieve. Remember, take Glasgow's population out of the figures and the rest of Scotland beats many regions of Britain for "quality of life".
Once there was small country called Norway with wild Vikings.....

Don Rodgers, Prestwick (south of Glasgow), Scotland

I unfortunatly work in Blackburn, go and have a look at what the city is like along with dozens of other cities and you will realise that Britain is already dead.

Shane, Clitheroe, Lancs

Scotland it's a different nation of England. It's fantastic that Alex Salmond fight for a referendum. The scottish people need to decide her futur. This it's a signal of a true democracy. I'm from Catalonia, ancient nation now in Spain. And the spanish constitution says that if the spanish state have a division, the army have the obligation to fight against it. The spanish democracy it's not a true democracy.

In the other hand, the catalan newspaper Avui (Today) publish in the headlines a interview with Alex Salmond. In Catalonia a lot of people is following the futur of Scotland.

Àlex, Barcelona, Catalonia, Spain

Belgium did nothing besides making beer and chocolate? Sigh... I can understand why people want to become independent from England.

Cedric, Kortrijk, Flanders, Belgium

How can you claim everything that "...almost nothing enacted at Holyrood disturbs England" ....Only the free elderly care, bettter medicines and free university education that the English pay for.

This intellectually slack piece piece talks about Holyrood; the real question is about leglisation forced through the Commons by Scottish MP's without having to suffer the results and be acoutable at the ballot box for them.

Less of the new labour 'framing' of the debate in such distorted terms and more honesty please.

Jake Westway, Bath, UK

R bates - Richard or Dick Bates right?

Peer review, Ghent,

"English colonial barbarism has killed more innocent people than Nazism and Communism combined.
Go Scotland! Go---Dublin9, Dublin, Ireland"

Worldwide communism - 95million deaths
WW2 up to 70 million
Nazi repression of civilians - 22 million deaths
so thats 190 millions death from communism and Nazism.

The British have never killed that many and many they did kill they used Irish soldiers to do it...
SO CHECK YOUR FACTS before you believe what the lads down the pub tell you ...

Daniel K888, Melbourne , Australia

Independence is normality and it will solve the WLQ once and for all. If Scotland is a drain on English resources (as we are constantly told) then why not let us go?

England and Scotland could still share a Queen (though most people would probably prefer a republic) but most importantly they would then be equal nations with their own parliaments.

It's a pity our NI friend is allowing Divide 'N' Rule to cloud his judgement. He doesn't really need English rule (effective if not technically) any more than we do and the longer SF and the DUP work together the more they will realise that neither part of Ireland has anything to fear from working together.

The British establishment is way behind the people of Scotland and England on this both of whom recently said they would vote for independence. This option appears to have diminished in Scotland as the SNP are looking good at devolved level however ewventually a choice will need to be made between independence or continued union.

Joe Middleton, Edinburgh, Scotland

About time. I can't wait for the day when Scotland becomes independent. Hoping that NI and Wales follow suit. England can then repatriate all those gaelic and celtic hangers-on back to whence they came. Let Scotland and others run their own countries, without English taxpayers contributing to their comfortable lives. By the way Scotland doesn't own one jot of North sea oil - so hands off jock. It belongs to England.

Tony Fellows, Birmingham, UK

A devolved Scotland would be the best thing that could happen to England. This weak and ineffective Labour government would be out of power forever. There would also have to be a big shake up at the BBC. England would be wealthier and healthier as a result. And the English would finally be allowed to feel a lot better about themselves.

Reformed-Unionist, Greenshire, England

The writer over eggs his pudding a bit. Belgian beer is good stuff, give credit where it is due.

Scotland, on the other hand has little to offer England except an ever empty begging bowl and greedy poilticians hell-bent on pillaging our wealth.

Jim, London, England

"its sickly beer"
You lost all credibility right there.. If you know as little about politics as you do about beer....


"Sinn Fein, a party committed to removing Ulster from the UK". A third of Ulster is already not in the UK. Last time I looked the counties of Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal were not part of the UK. You know as little about geography (and politics) as you do about beer.

I won't start on how little you know about Belgium. Not a lot I expect. But you know what? They don't care. They are happy looking at their Rubens or Breughel masterpieces while sipping a Chimay or Duvel and celebrating a 7 grand slam winning tennis genius. All the Timmys of England eat your hearts out.

S. Conway, Brussels,

Why not let Scotland, Walesand Northern Ireland be separate nations if the majority of their people so want? It is their right. And if they did, why should the English be acrimonious about it? Aren't there enough problems in the world of pressing importance (and enough bad feeling among human beings of various 'nationalities') without adding to them?

Who do we think we are (the English) to think that we might be able to stop other countries in the UK possibly wanting independence? No, we should let any country in Britain be whom thay want to be, draw a line in the sand, and work towards a friendly associaton of nations under a sort of 'disUK', as equal countries in Europe. No problem.

Anybody who has a problem with the final disappearance of English hegemony over its neighbours should be sent to live in one of the old outposts of the now-dead Empire, India, for instance, if the Indians would have them, or Australia, in a region administrated by the Aborigines.

Bob, Gloucester, UK

Hi, I'm a Belgian and I'm a bit displeased by the way my country is presented in this article. We are not just there to provide the world with beer. And what is going on at the moment has nothing to do with fratricide. I live in Flanders near Brussels and the case is that Wallonia, or at least their politicians, refuse to obey to our constitution. For years Flanders is demanding to split an electoral region around Brussels that conflicts with our basic principle of equality, which has been confirmed by the highest Belgian court. Wallonia refuses to let the region split (which is not a kind of independance) unless it gets some serious compensations. In the past Flanders has bowed for these demands and avoided conflict, but the last elections demanded a serious and unconditional solution for the whole problem. Wallonia still wants to 'sell' our constitutional right by asking for ridiculous compensations (e.g. giving up parts of Flanders) and a crisis is the result. Too much is too much.

Jan Hermans, Merchtem, Belgium

To weaken the Union at such a crucial time in our history would not only be dangerous for all Britons but for Europe and ultimately the world. Mr Salmond is a vain, self glory seeking little man. I firmly believe that the Scottish people are canny enough to know that. It is only the English who worry. Give the Scots some credit. They know that a strong Union is a strong Scotland. Indeed this referendum, if it ever happens will possibly be Salmondpolians undoing. Yes, it is a great way to get votes to be elected to the Scottish Executive but he doesn't really want a referendum. He knows he would lose and that would finally be the end of him.
In Yorkshire people sometimes call it the "Republic of Yorkshire". Usually, it must be said, after several beers and even then ,Leeds United must have won. However on waking in the morning we go instantly back to being proud of being English. Bravado is one thing, voting to be a tiny state in a dangerous world is another. United we are strong.

J Nowland, Leeds , The UNITED Kingdom

The Scots have always looked at the Tory party as the English national Party,Poll tax etc And Thatcher Proclaiming the troops who died in Falklands Died for a cause they died for England!I can understand why Scotland is distancing itself.
And folk are already being heard ,about English votes for English laws etc .So i think we are well down that road already.It seems the Scots have moved on and forward .While we in England just winge ,We have dominated the Parliament for 300yrs and we throw dummy out pram because a handful of Scots have been running the show for 10yrs,Good luck to Scotland.

D paterson, Blackpool, Lancs

Have the English gone mad? Without Scotish soldier to fight her battles were would she be?

Alex Mackay, Toronto, Canada

The break up of Uk over regional identities will be bad for each one of its constituents who will lose voice internationally the way the Russians did. All the separatists who are enjoying the benefits of a composite British nationality would do well to remember that. Once the break up begins, it will keep fragmenting...so beware..

uday, Pune, india

Scotland will be more prosperous as an independent nation, with its large land mass and resources compared to the relatively less population, and the chances of scots getting more opportunities in international stage are more. Scotland should have seperated a long time ago , but as they say - better late then never.

Vikram Aarella, Cardiff, Wales

As an Englishman, I unequivocallyagree that it's time for Scotland to go it's own way. Then hopefully the Scots would stop moaning about the English having oppressed them for the last 300 years and the poor English tax payers would be relieved of subsidising our ungrateful northern cousins!

Alec, Kingston Upon Thames, Surrey

sounds good to me. I will even help rebuild Hadrians Wall and dig out Offa's Dyke. just hope the immigration service(ha ha) is there to keep them out afterwards

true english, harrogate, england

The Scots take a lot more money out of the UK Tax System then they put in. Without England the country will be bankrupt within a few years.

But i say if the Scots wanna leave then let them. At least we could get rid of Brown and all the Scots from Westminster and have England governed by someone other than MP's who know that their decisions won't affect their own voters.

AK, Brighton, England

Our chocolates and beer are the best in the world! As to the growing tendency to divide the country into two seperate communities we form no exception to what is brewing In Great Britain, (Wales & Scotland) France & Spain (Basques) , Germany (Rheinland-Westfalen) and even in parts of the Arab world with the Shia-Sunni islam. The growing European Community and economic globalisation have had the reactive effect of turning people increasingly more inwards in a desperate attempt to hold on to their threatened identities.

Ray, Hombeek, Belgium

QUOTE "is not hard to be pretty dismissive of Belgium. As a country it has offered little to the wider world beyond its sickly beer and sicklier chocolate (plus Tintin, to be charitable)."
UNQUOTE

Luckily the many many thousand British soldiers around Ypres cannot hear you. I think they at least hoped they were trying to save something worthwhile ...

Thank you (sic) for your kind words about my country!

I. Hubert, Antwerp, Belgium

You are wrong, Mr. Upton. The Stuarts were very good at losing battles, but the English invasions came to naught simply because their military machine could never counter the highly effective adn persistent guerilla tactics of the Scots when led by their military aristocracy.

Gervas Douglas, Andorra la Vella,

It saddens me how hysterical and ill-informed many of these comments are.

One wonders - in the light of many of these authors' poor understanding of the relevant circumstances - how so many people can hold such strong views with such poor understanding of the subject matter.

Steven, Edinburgh,

Please go Scotland and take your scots with you.

B.Old, Northampton, Northants

As people are exposed to more of the outside world via cheap travel, mass media and the internet, they see how other small countries are fairing better than Scotland.

I do wish English folk wouldn't be so negative about our desire to breakaway. We don't have a chip on our shoulders about you and think you're quite a nice bunch on the whole.

Brian S, LONDON,

Sickly beer??? Belgium produces the best beer in the world, has the largest range of quality beers, and sets the benchmark for beer culture. I suggest that Mr Hames track down a Chimay or Cantillon, for example, and reconsider.

Ant Hayes, Hildenborough, UK

The tone of some of the contributors is incredibly bad and really mis-informed. Scotland is a net contributor to the British Exchequer. Unlike other small countries in Europe we are not prospering as we should because we are still tied to the out-dated British state. The Greater Glasgow area for example has some of the worst deprivation in the western world. We can only address these problems as an independent state. The British state and the Labour Party had their chance and failed. Independence can't come soon enough.

Andrew, Edinburgh, Scotland

Once there was a small, backward country on the fringe of Europe, that had lost almost every war it had fought, a poor, divided, insignificant country where they hadn't even discovered cabbage and many people still lived in tribes. Then came the Act of Union and Scotland became one of the wrold's intellectual and economic powerhouses......do you really want to turn the clock back? Do you really want to be the new Macedonia (once the oil runs out)?

Frank Upton, Solihull,

As an Irishman I would like to entirely dissociate myself from the hysterical comments of Dublin9. On balance Britain and Ireland have both been powerful agents for global progress. It must be said though that the Scots (see violent crime rates north of the border) do seem to enjoy a scrap, while England's rule of Ireland was no shining beacon of colonial administration.

Arnold Ward, Weybridge, Surrey, UK

If Scotland becomes Independant and and retains the Monarchy as its Head of State...could England wake up and have a Republic? Just think of it,,,every citizen equal.....no unelected House of Lords.....finally a democracy....

John, Vancouver, Canada

Alan in Cookstown don't you understand that with these idiots in power the Queen is next on the " to do list ". It's all over and no-one can do anything about it.

Nick Dixon, Sutton Coldfield, England

England should be asked if they want Scotland to leave the Union.

It would ensure Scottish independence far quicker than if it were left to the Scots.

Terry, Aylesbury, England

Roll on English Liberation

John Ledbury, Kings Lynn, England

Flee dependants flee.

What shocks me most is how most people in scotland and wales have absolutly no idea how much more they receive from the government than they contribute to it.

As an Englishman, I'm all for scottish independance.

Dominic, Manchester, UK

over 50 million? Think that is a slight exageration when you consider Stalin and Mao. If Scotland wants to go, then fine. same applies to Wales and Northern Ireland. Even when you take into account north sea oil, england has still been financially supporting them for decades if not centuries. It is not england who would suffer from dissolving the union.

ps have you actually the history of how Scotland joined the union(it was bankrupt and needed english money), or when wales did (nearly 800 years ago)? may find it interesting to do so.

Matthew, Portsmouth,

Tim,
How can you say 'whereas almost nothing enacted at Holyrood disturbs England'?? There is rising fury among the ordinary classes in England, as opposed to the establishment literati, about differences in health provision between England and Scotland (things like life-saving drugs as well as personal care), differences in educational service (25% more spent on secondary school children in Scotland, no tuition fees for those at university unless they happen to b English) and even transport, when projects in Scotland go ahead while those in the North of England are cancelled. Go to Cumbria and Northumberland and ask them what they thing about policies 'enacted in Scotland'. There is now more support in England than there is in England for independence.Tthe UK can only survive as a federal union - if the people want it or the ruling classes deign to ask them. Tell the people of England why things are better for them in a Union than out of it. England needs its own Alex Salmond.

Ian Campbell, Leatherhead Surrey, England

Time for Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland to go, and for England to resign from Europe.

neil murphy, cromer,

Perhaps the UK and the other nations will in-fact get to see just how much money is directed to England for the Olympics, Millennium Dome, Wembley, etc; with one less country to write the cost off to. They say we get more in subsidies than we pay in tax, yet a lot of the subsidy never makes it to Scotland. Why should we not get extra when our oil money is redirected to Westminster, NI and the Isle of Mann has direct access to oil funds... pray tell why not Scotland.

Let us not forget that much of the UK debt would be called on as the UK would no longer control the oil fields it has taken large loans out on. That may also be why they do not want Scottish independence.

Graeme, Edinburgh,

"redirect our oil to Newcastle"

You clearly have no grasp of maritime borders. Maritime borders stretch out 200 miles from the nearest land mass, so that would be right on the border, there for it would stretch out in a straight line at a 90 degree angle as it would be just as close to Scottish and English mainland, no over lapping. That would mean no oil. If it followed the same line as the border (which it cannot legally) you would get around 2-4% of the oil and those fields are almost dry and very small. Have you never questioned why the Tories don't want independence? They would lose the oil money, the bargaining chip with the EU (fisheries, Scotland has the most waters of any European nation), you would need to import both water and electricity from Scotland too, not to mention losing income from the billion dollar industries of whisky, textiles and fish. No where to build big boats in England either, has to be done in France or Scotland.

Graeme, Edinburgh,

It's funny that you say the only way to stop the seperation process is for Great Britain to collectively get behind Labour, as they were the ones who allowed and encouraged the whole devolution idea in the first place!!

The dissolution of the United Kingdom as a political entity will be just another one of Tony's great acheivements.

Jimi, Newcastle,

One wonders why we cling to Scotland when all it does is provide a drain on english pockets and what seems like a scottish mafia of mp's to both run and look after scotland at the english taxpayers expense. The scots blame the english for all their ills and at the same time enjoy the benefits afforded to them by the english. Let them leave the union in whatever form the scots want provided we also cut all economic support ties to them. Lets not forget the scots enjoy free university fees and home care at OUR expense.

Paul K, Warrington, England

" A Tory victory would trigger a stampede for Scottish separation". Another compelling reason for voting Conservative.

James Matthews, London,

I agree, go Scotland, go! And from the response below it looks as though Dublin9 is the place to go to!

Kevin, Reading, Berkshire, England

There are 4.5 million people in Scotland, the same number as in The West Midlands of England. They are relatively unimprotant. Those that are important are the 2-300 Scots that have seized power in England. Get rid of them and the whole mess will be sorted and Scotland can then go to where the H--- it wants.

fred forsythe (not the), Worcester,

The day the jocks can produce beer like the Belgians will be a great day indeed.

Crana, Raleigh, USA

Re the reference to the US, the comparison doesn't hold up especially well: not so long ago, we elected a Republican from California and awhile back, a Democrat from Texas. More pertinently, Puerto Rico periodically holds referenda on US statehood vs independence and concludes that its current status is better than either.

Bemused , NYS,

It is not hard to be pretty dismissive of Tim Hames. As a journalist he has offered little to the wider world beyond cheap jibes and real ignorance. If he stopped writing will anybody notice? I doubt it.

Julian, Antwerp,

MasterBates, Ashby;

The feelling is reciprocated. Good riddance...

Philip Watson, Edinburgh,

I say get rid of the lazy socialists

Daniel K888, Melbourne , Australia

Southerners are finally gonna have to face the fact that, like it or not, (and many of you WILL) the Scots are gonna be off very soon (that is, in political years) and the remaining even0more english dominated majority are gonna have to come to terms with that.
Now, you COULD choose to through a tantrum about it, but the reality is that most scots now believe it to be inevitable (a total certainty in my book since the very day tht devolution was won), and the major problem for the south is does it become a good neighbour to a nearby burgeoning democracy, with an ever increasing confidence in itself and its people, or does it choose to be a surly guy-next-door, with an attitude and a tone steeped in the past. The choice will be yours.....you may not WANT to make such decision, but the politics of inevitability that were enshrined in the Scotland Act of 1997 make it your parade,,,funeral march or ceilidh? Just let us know when and what you decide when your ready !!

Hamish Morrison, Edinburgh, SCOTLAND

After the Scottish have bolted through the exit door we English must ensure that the door is firmy and permanently sealed! We wouldn't want them trying to come back!

Derek, Southampton, England

Yes, let them go. I would love to see these countries after 10 or so years of independance, a.k.a EU involvment! ha ha.

Like my mother always said, "be careful what you wish for, it may come true."

Chris, Manchester, England (till I die)

yeah GO SCOTLAND GO ! Then you can take over Ireland's position as the 'big issue' seller of Europe.

RJA, Nottingham, England

Who really cares about scotland anyway? I'm sure the English would welcome their departure and be well rid of them and their continual moaning!

Ian, Brisbane, Australia

The comparison with Quebec is poor. Quebec nationalists have lost two referenda to separate, and the federal Conservatives, by recognizing Quebec aspirations for more control of its own monies, and reaffirming Quebecois' insistence on their special identity, have slowed considerably the separatist drift in that province. National prosperity spread to the provinces has had a key role in keeping Quebec in Canada, too.

Brigid Elson, Toronto, Canada

To Karin of Glasgow - I agree, and speaking as an Englishman, I will vote Tory if it hastens the departure of Scotland - but who will then subsidise your free tuition for students, cheaper prescriptions and free care for your elderly ?

tony, birmingham, uk

Regarding Tim Hames' contemptuous opening - what has Belgium offered to the world - this past weekend has again confirmed that it has offered the no.1 woman tennis player, Justine Henin. Not long ago Kim Clijsters was near the top of the rankings as well. Where are the British women - and indeed, other than Andy Murray, the men - on the international court?

Barry, Wallington, UK

Can't we kick them out? Because of Labour votes England is acting rather like the desparate part of a marriage when most of us would love to ditch the Jocks - redirect our oil to Newcastle and watch Scotch-land sink into a US theme park.

Ben , gloucester,

Hey, don't knock Belgium. Have you been there on holiday? Do so! Beautiful beaches, gorgeous Flanders countryside, glorious Ardennes, delightful villages, lovely cities of architecture: Bruges, Brussels, Antwerp, Namur, Mons etc! And all that fantastic FOOD and BEER. If I lived in Belgium, I think I'd be the size of the late Pavarotti...but happy.

As to the point of your article, Scots have never wanted to be part of the Union, so they should leave. England will then be a free country again! As "Dublin9" (below) says: GO SCOTLAND GO. We'll be glad to see the back of you and the collective chip on your shoulder.

But you MUST go to Belgium. No, really.......

Dave, Notts, ENGLAND

Isn't it interesting that no one notices that Belgium has survived without a "proper national government" for months and draws the conclusion that maybe one doesn't need one? Might this not suggest we pay far too much attention (and tax) to centralised institutions and politics, when it seems people muddle on through anyway?

If Scotland becomes like Quebec, will politicians seeking national office in the UK be deemed electable only if they can speak the curious language there, as well as English? That happens in Quebec, and would seem to rule out any hope of government pronouncements becoming comprehensible!

JS, Cambridge,

A recent trip to Estonia has firmly put me in the Independence camp.

Scott, Perth, Scotland

No Surrender. God Save The Queen.

Alan, Cookstown, Northern Ireland

independence for scotland NOW vote SNP

karin, glasgow, scotland

WONDERFUL!
The complete dismemberment of UK will be the final chapter in >500 years of English colonial tyranny that started with Irish independence. English colonial barbarism has killed more innocent people than Nazism and Communism combined.
Go Scotland! Go

Dublin9, Dublin, Ireland

Alex Salmond is 'a sort of Ken McLivingstone but with talent'- now there's a back-handed compliment...

eric mccleave, paris,

good riddance

R Bates, Ashby, Leics

you so don't get in in London or the Times
you think pravda assumptions work
Scotland is on the way and will take any powers it can get
bye bye westminster - cheerio UK

Reality from Scotland , edinburgh,

Whoever wrote the last comment about 'English colonial tyranny' is historically illiterate. Clearly, England dominates the British Isles. Yet to draw comparisons between English and then British rule in the south of Ireland (most people in Northern Ireland consider themselves Brits you know - and many of them are of Scots 'colonial' descent) to the union between England and Scotland clearly misreads the nature of the various relationships in these islands. It should also be remembered that England's domination of the world was carried out in union with Scotland - as Britain. Scotland, whilst smaller than her neighbour down south, is no colony, but she has been a colonial power - as Britain. Thus, the colonial domination the contributor terms English is in fact British. About whose empire there is clearly much to regret, but a lot to think positively of. Britain - not England - certainly did not perpetrate anywhere near the terror and death of Nazism and Communism 'combined'.

Mark, Belfast, United Kingdom

More innocent people than Nazism and Communism?? Thats well in excess of 100m people over, lets say, a period of 90 years. When exactly did this slaughter of the innocents (by the English) occur on that scale??

Simon, Guildford, England

Why should England accept proportional representation just to give new labout a chance?. Not only have they tried to wipe England off the map but also they have denigrated any thing English since coming to power. They have used racism as a weapon against any expression of English Identity. Dublin9 will find that in the imperial british project the irish were well out in front filling their pockets with the booty and sticking bayonets into people. The Irish and the ira are responsible for the deaths of thousands of their own country Men Women and Children.

George, Durham, England

Dublin 9. You are talking complete tosh. Go and get yourself an education.

mikefreeman, London,

Dublin9... you underestimate, by a long way, the barbarism of the communists.
Interesting theory that Labour is the only party who can save the union especially when it gave the SNP the opportunity to go down the independence road through so called devolution...

JC, Edinburgh, Scotland/Great Britain

"If Scotland was to bolt through the exit door as Slovakia did then the consequences would be more explosive."

Pray tell us, why?

Jimbo, Glasgow,