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The position of the Roman Catholic Church in Britain has changed enormously in my lifetime, but one could never have guessed that we should see reported on the same day a recent ex-Prime Minister becoming a convert, and the Catholic weekly attendance numbers overtaking the Anglican. When I was young, no-popery prejudice still had real influence; it was not as strong in England as in Northern Ireland, nor as strong as English antiSemitism, but it could affect people’s lives in terms of marriages, school places or jobs. In politics, a Roman Catholic Prime Minister was unthinkable, and a Roman Catholic Lord Chancellor was actually illegal.
The announcement of Tony Blair’s conversion is an important personal event for Blair and his family, but it is also an important historic event. When he last saw the Pope, Blair presented him with an autographed photograph of Cardinal Newman, the most significant Catholic convert of the 19th century. Blair has himself become the most significant British convert since Newman.
Religion is not a matter of mere statistics, nor are these statistics simple. Yet the fact that Catholic weekly church attendances in England have overtaken Anglican by 862,000 to 853,000 is significant. One should nevertheless qualify it. The Catholic figures have been raised by Polish immigration. The Poles bring Polish Catholicism with them; they are a devout nation. If one counts the numbers of people who would regard themselves as Church of England, if not practising, they would still outnumber Roman Catholics, similarly self-described.
So England did not wake up yesterday morning as a Catholic country. Indeed Protestant Churches of England, Pentecostal, Methodist and Baptist, have a combined church attendance of 822,000. But the Roman Catholics should be seen as one of three large Christian groups, marginally the largest by the measure of church attendance. There are a billion Catholics in the world as a whole; that in itself adds to their influence in Britain.
There are political issues that have lain below the surface, which will now have to be reconsidered. In constitutional terms the most important concerns the monarchy. The Act of Settlement makes the English crown a Protestant monarchy. It provides that no one can be eligible to secure the crown if a Roman Catholic or married to one. This has even been made to extend to minor members of the Royal Family who have to renounce their remote rights of succession on marriage to a Roman Catholic.
Few serious politicians want to amend the Act of Settlement, not because they feel reverence for its Protestant character, which reflects quarrels of 300 years ago, but because they are afraid of opening a can of worms. Mr Blair himself may have hesitated for similar reasons before making his intended conversion public.
If the Westminster Parliament were to amend the Act of Settlement, it would be necessary for the other Commonwealth countries in which the Queen is head of state to amend their constitutions, otherwise they might end up with different monarchs. Any amendment to the Act of Settlement would open the way for Australia, and any of the other Commonwealth countries that have kept the Queen, to become republics.
Amendment would also open the way for the removal of another obvious discrimination, which is that of gender. The English crown passes in the male line, so long as there is a direct male heir. If Prince Charles had predeceased his mother, before having children, the successor to the throne would not have been the Princess Royal, though she is older than her other brothers, but Prince Andrew, followed by his daughters, followed by Prince Edward, followed by his children. There is a widespread feeling, not only among militant feminists, that this is an unjustifiable discrimination against women, and perhaps unlawful under the Human Rights Act.
Neither the discrimination against Roman Catholics nor that against women would be tolerated if the Act of Settlement had to be drafted in the present age. Both would have to go, if either of them was removed. There is a greater constitutional difficulty in the possible break-up of the United Kingdom and of Canada. Any amendment of the Act of Settlement would give Alex Salmond an opportunity to press the case for Scottish independence.
In Canada, the problem is Quebec. The reason that Canada has remained a monarchy is that Canadian governments have feared any change in the status of Canada would give an opening to the Quebec separatists. Quebec, unlike Scotland, is predominantly Catholic.
This is the tangle that has to be unwound. All the remaining monarchies of the Commonwealth might choose to become republics. Scotland may become independent; Quebec may become independent; women might rank equally with men in the succession to the English crown; Catholics might be able to succeed to the English throne. One can see why prime ministers have been so reluctant to open this constitutional question.
If one could leave these sleeping dogs to lie, personally I would do so. But I suspect the dogs are already awake. We cannot stop Australia becoming a republic, if the Australians want to. Nor can we stop Scotland becoming independent, if it chooses. We cannot go on discriminating against women and Catholics. Reforming the Act of Settlement may take as long as reforming the House of Lords, but changes will come, better early than late, better late than never.
William Rees-Mogg has had a distinguished career with The Times and The Sunday Times. He was Deputy Editor of The Sunday Times before becoming Editor of The Times in 1967, a position he held until 1981. He was made a life peer in 1988. Since 1992 he has been a columnist for The Times, writing on a variety of issues. He has also been chairman of the Broadcast Standards Council and British Arts Council
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Blair did not follow his convictions and become a Catholic because he was put under immense pressure NOT to do so while still Prime Minister - a pressure to which he succumbed. The Establishment of this country would sooner have a whip-round for the Taleban than allow a Catholic to hold high office.
Mark, Aberystwyth,
To Alan of Luton
I read your entry with interest. In fact under the rules used to elect a Pope there is no need for the Pope to be a man, a Priest or indeed single. A married woman could be elected Pope as could I !
D A Morrison, Airdrie, UK
I once remember an old plumber in the building firm I work for telling me when I asked about some plumbing work I thought of having done in my own home saying" If it functions,leave it alone"
Kate tansfield, Birkenhead,
Anti-Catholicism is the anti-Semitism of the liberals, the last socially acceptable prejudice. There's plenty of it in evidence in the comments above.
Francis Marsden, Chorley, England
here was me thinking that the money htta has been filched from Scotland (see recent infomration released under the 40 year rule) might cause some realisation that we might be due some repayment for subsidising London Tranport, the Channel Tunnel (to serve all of Britain not just an excuse to upgrade an old london railway station) and all of the other British i.e. South East england monuments. the government altered the boundaries of the north sea between Scotland and England so that the English boundary starts somnewhere off Arbroath rather than Berwick on Tweed.
your story about the idea of having lower drink driving limits in Scotalnd being thwarted by Westminster did not appear on your web site but was in the Scottish edition of the Times. why not? the excuse by Westminster? it was only reasonable to have a common limit throughout the UK. why? we had non smoking in Scotland a year before England without any visitng english person being confused. the queen is Queen of GB &NI
ron oliver, edinburgh, scotland
Generally in life it is better to put the horse in front of the cart. This is where we're going and this is what needs to be done or undone to get there. Sticks, carrots, whatever will help the ensemble along. Far better than piling up the loads and burdens, bemoaning their existence, explaining why they cannot be borne and giving the horse a say.
Jolyon McAndrew, Chalfont St Peter,
It is interesting that Tony Blair did not have the strength of conviction to convert to Catholicism while PM. It is also interesting that he supported policies which are directly opposed to Catholic beliefs. Why is the Catholic church accepting him? Which does he really, really believe in, his faith or his career?
On another tack, as Middle East peace-maker, does his affiliation to the religion responsible for the Crusades give him a useful standpoint?
Finally, the recent poll showing Catholicism to be the most practised Christian faith in GB should note that Catholics are forced to observe their faith once a week. If they don't go to Mass it is considered a mortal sin, involving death of the soul and exclusion from heaven. Not much room for negotiation there then.
mia c, manchester, uk
I remain skeptical about Scottish independence, somehow I don't think a nation with a population below 6 million, a large and growing percentage of which are over the age of 65 (since most of the well educated and ambitious Scots end up moving to London to find better jobs) and a dependence on imported goods is going to survive by itself. (if you want to argue this point, just google "scottish demographics")
I suppose there is north sea oil...but Westminster won't be too keen on letting that go. And what of the Army? So I suppose it will have to be split...with all the scottish soldiers being stripped of equipment (armys are mighty expensive, can the Scottish parliament really afford one of its own?) and sent north of the border.
Stop dreaming, if Scotland becomes an independent nation it will, paradoxically, fall even further beneath the shadow of England. Economic ruin lies in wait.
The UK is stronger than the sum of it's parts. A United Kingdom benefits all the member states.
Ed A., Southampton, England
Lord Rees Mogg, as a Somerset man, must understand why there was no alternative at the time to the Act of Settlement. 1701 was only 13 years after the Glorious Revolution, and 16 after brutality of the Bloody Assize. James II had presented himself to the nation as a Catholic king, not a megalomaniac king, and in 1701 with the succession in serious doubt as Mary had died childless, and Anne's only son had died, and Stuarts were still at large, parliament had to make sure that there would never be another Catholic monarch. The act of settlement also ensured that no monarch would come from the small community of puritan dissenters, who were to some degree seen as responsible for the excesses of the 1660s commonwealth, still well withing living memory. They were to prosper under different circumstances in North America. It has served us well, maybe it is time for reform now, but in its time it embodied practicality not prejudice.
David Carter, Liverpool, UK
Is Lord RM a Roman Catholic? If so, that personal interest ought to be declared in the body of the article.
As for Mr Blair, if he believed in the doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church when he was Prime Minister, should he not have welcomed that fact and openly converted at the time? If his answer is that his temporal office precluded that step, then he denied the Faith for reasons of earthly politics which is hardly consistent with Christian witness that the Church claims to uphold and demand from its adherents.
We have tinkered enough with the constitutional settlement in these islands over the course of the last decade. Thanks to the meddling of Mr Blair and his cohorts, we now face the real political problems caused by Scots labour votes at Westminster, and have a House of Lords more subservient to prime ministerial patronage than ever before, and at best half reformed. Leave the Act of Settlement and the Anglican establishment alone
Glenn, London, UK
The Act of Settlement of 1701 declares that the Sovereign must not be a Roman Catholic or marry a Roman Catholic, and that the monarch "shall join in communion with the Church of England".
The scope of the word Protestant is not defined: it could simply mean "not a Catholic".
Members of other religions are not necessarily barred from taking Communion in an Anglican church.
Is there any legal requirement for the Sovereign actually to be a member of the Church of England, simply because of being the Head of the Church of England?
Was George I ever formally received into the Church of England?
The Church of England does not worry much about the beliefs of those who take communion at its altars! And "political correctness" is now more important than belief in the Trinity!
The sovereign could presumably marry a Baptist or a Buddhist or a Hindu, or a Jew or a Moslem!
Donald C Bindon
Donald C Bindon, Dorchester, England
Global warming, rising sea levels, nuclear proliferation, mass starvation in Africa and other parts of the world, millions dying of preventable/curable diseases, millions more without access to health care, education or even clean drinking water ...
And yet people are getting their knickers into a twist because a nutter called Tony Blair has decided to switch Daz for Tide.
Thank God I'm an atheist.
Fintan, Helsinki, Finland
To Michael of Harrogate,
Pope Pius IX, 1834, proclaimed the Immaculate Conception of Mary, the 5 Popes quoted are taken from Catholic Heresy a web-site found at
http://www.ankerberg.org/Articles/_PDFArchives/roman-catholicism/RC2W1100.pdf
Other references to Mary are easily found in the Catholic Encyclopaedia which I suggest you read. It is absolutely informative requiring careful thought to understand the arguments advanced therein.
An understanding of the History of the Church is a pre-requisite to understanding the history of Europe. The Church of Rome is not wholly irredeemable its principle problem is the self proclaimed infallibility of its revelation.
There is no doubt at all that the Church suppressed scientific investigation, independent thought and even medical advances. Indeed the introduction of democracy was condemned by the Church as being contrary to God's will.
David Morrison, Airdrie, UK
I find it strange that "the Home of Democracy" may include in its unwritten Constitution such laws as to prevent someone from taking up the highest positions in society due to their sex or faith: I would call it "sexual and religious discrimination".
Italy, as a "Catholic country" has approved divorce and abortion. The voice of the pope may be heard or unheard depending on one's personal creed.
No-one is interested in the religious beliefs of a candidate in the role of President of the Republic or of Prime Minister: it's something concerning his/her conscience.
Carmelo Gallo, Catania, Italy
So Mr. Blair can no longer promote birth control and safe sex in the Third World. What can you expect from a BUSH GROUPIE!!.
Francis Issa, celebration, florida USA
A clever article, indeed, that has impressed me very much. I am afraid that the can of worms is about to burst and when it does, as Mr. Rees-Mogg leaves very clear, there will be a domino theory effect.
I once had a very brilliant and honest English professor who told me that there were many and very, very important "closet" Catholics in England. Time is showing me he was very right.
Maia, Dresden, Germany
I would really rather Parliament concerned itself with matters of much greater importance while the country is falling apart and getting worse by the day than religious diatribe. This has no place in parliament until the government fixes the mess our streets are in, our hospitals are in, our transport system is in and the rest of it - all of their making.
This issue is not importance in the slightest at this time.
K Rogers, Preston, Lancashire
Before you get too carried away about the Roman Catholic
church in England being larger than the Church of England
remember both are in decline, it's just the Anglican church is
in decline faster. I work with a very nice Roman Catholic
Polish girl who dosen't believe in God. Neither of these two
churches have much life in them.
A true church is one that holds to the Bible. For that you will
have to go outside the Roman Catholic & Anglican churches.
Basil, Bristol, England
Anyone who is not convinced by resurrection will be convinced by nothing : no evidence will ever suffice. But do not insult our intelligence by suggesting that science somehow gives us licence to mock Christ : true science is neutral on the subject. If quack pseudo-scientists peddle their atheist speculations to a public eager to escape moral conscience, there are plenty of true scientists in the same field who â less profitably - disprove their findings.
In the past, unbridled speculation led religious theorists to postulate angels on the tip of a needle ; today, pseudo-scientific theorists balance an entire cosmos on it.
Anth, Walsall,
I find it quite strange that the "Home"of Democracy" may include in its "unwritten Constitution" rules that prevent someone from taking up very important positions in society due to their religious faith.
I would call it "sexual and religious discrimination"; this is perhaps one of the dark sides of the "Lighthouse of modern Democracy", I mean Britain, of course.
Carmelo
Carmelo Gallo, Catania, Italy
Let's put some kind of perpective. 1.7M (catholic + CofE) church goers out of 60M. That's less than 3%. Why should this tiny minority have any major say in the governing of the country?
The CofE should be disestablished and Britain demonstrably be a secular country (meaning no religion should enjoy any special privilege or influence.)
Paul Millington, Reading, UK
Dear Eric, I'll think you'll find that among the educated young people of this country (and in that catagory you certainly have never been part of) there is an acceptance of no religeon at all. Atheism rules, to the tiny minority that do practise, I know two Anglicans and two Catholics against inumerable atheists who view all religeon with either indifferance or as belonging to the illiterate, stupid people of centuries past. However they at least are old enough, and intelligent enough, to know that the Nazi Youth was compulsory and therefore the pope is in no way a fascist. They are intelligent to know that out of the thousands of Priest worldwide childmolesters are few and far between. They are also politically aware enough to know that the Anglican Church is still the established Church. They have come out of Anglican schools, most of them, with a hatred of all things Protestant and as such they do not feel such hostility towards the Catholic Church. Sorry to upset you Eric. xxxx
James, Oxford,
For someone like Blair to promote and endorse policies in the government antithetical to the teachings of the Roman Catholic church and then join it, shows a confusion of faith to say the least. Only good thing being married is that he will not be eligible for Pope or could that be possible...?
Alan, Luton,
Nigel Meek.
Could you let me know how you are able to read Tony Blair's mind.
declan forde, Eastwood, UK.
Could the Act of Settlement not be amended in such a way so as to disestablish the Church of England (with the Archishop of Canterbury serving as Head of the Church), ending the Sovereign's role as Head of the Church of Scotland when she is in Scotland and opening the Accession to the Throne to both genders by age and the profession of any religion? The Sovereign is already barred from exercising direct political power. Provision could also be made that the other 15 Realms would continue to share the British monarch until they decided otherwise in their individual capacities as independent states.
I also fail to see how Scotland could declare independence following the amendment of the Statute governing succession to the Crown. Would such a declaration not require the repeal of the Act of Union of 1707?
Bill Limbacher, Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Eric of London is not comparing like with like. There may well be 1.6 million muslims in the UK but it is not appropriate to compare their numbers (of a whole religion) with the numbers of an individual christian faction.
Compare the numbers of a muslim sect, eg. Sufi, Shi'ia, Sunni etc with those of a christian sect. Otherwise one would need to compare the numbers of regularly worshipping muslims, as a whole, with similarly attending christians as a whole and not just a single faction.
The results should be interesting.
Brian Vallance, Corfu, Greece
Don't really worry about Quebec going independent. They won't, because they want to go independent only if they can take Federal money in the form of National Health, and pensions from Ottawa. The rest of Canada will never accept that request, The Western Provinces hate Quebec, and outside of hydro-power from Quebec, the West has oil, cattle and grain, and thats where the money is. Also one glance at at map will show that an independent Quebec will cut off the Maritines from the rest of Canada, a prospect that terrifies them. They are then faced with the further prospect of learning French-Canadian, which the English speaking natives abhore, or joining the USA, for "Protection", which also terrifies them. Lets put it this way though, sport follows culture, in hockey Canada's National sport , the English speaking Maritines go for the Boston Bruins, or the Toronto Maple Leafs, not the Quebec based Montreal Canadians. High sounding words about fairness of religion, bah!
Viva USA!
jim johnson, framingham, USA
Is this guy saying that the monarchy should be subject to the Human Rights Act?!! Is that a joke? For a minute I thought this had to be an article archly written by Rowan Atkinson or Stephen Fry.
And I thought we here in North America had gone ridiculously 'politically correct.' Britain is far worse, from what I see. Just remember this: if England jettisons or changes all its great traditions: its wonderful Cathedral services; its impressive Royal rituals etc., the consequences will simply be that no one will want to come. Why would I want to visit another Toronto or New York? No tradition, no distinctiveness, you will look just like every New World melting pot (without the cohesion of the real American melting pot), with every institution watered down for fear of offending one single solitary soul.
lindsay George Gray, Owen Sound, Canada
Blair converts to catholicism shortly after the Pope, who wore the swastika on his arm in his youth, honours Spanish fascists. There are many attractive religions. Catholicism is not one of them.
neil, waterford, ireland
What English throne? The one that in 1707 combined with the Scottish one to create the British throne? The Act of Settlement could be repealed but not by the UK alone, it would need to be agreed by the parliaments of the 15 other countries of which the Queen is head of state. Even if it was however the UK alone would then have to deal with the 1707 Act of Union which requires the UK to forever protect the Protestant nature of Scotland. Other monarchies in Europe show that these changes can be made but they dont have the complication of sharing their Queen with many other independent nations.
Luke Magee, Ashford, UK
In 1453 Constantinople became Catholic again, but with the Moslems already climbing the walls it was entirely too late.
Mack, Kirbyville, Texas
I am a little alarmed by the level of knowledge of the history of our country.
Sellar and Yeatman (1066 and all that) make it clear that it was the Pope, with all his followers, who decided to secede from the Church of England.
John, Kenilworth,
This is the man who wished to re-introduce slavery.Really.
Fitzherbert, Rodez, France
It is a myth that Roman Catholicism was the original Christianity of these islands. When Augustine arrived in the pagan Anglo Saxon, he was surprised to discover that the North and Scotland, Wales and Eire were already Christian. The Celtic Church traced its authority back to John and was every bit as old as the Roman Church or the Orthodox Church. The only way he could make England Roman was to threaten them with the sword.
Corin, Wolverhampton,
Actually, Margaret Laycock, I think you'll find the burden of proof is on the believer, not the non-believer. That's what allows people to ignore my claim that there are pink elephants on Mars until I can prove it to you.
It's time to do away with the Act of Settlement. It's embarrassing in modern Britain that we are discriminating against people based on their faith. Or that a female is not to be trusted with the throne ahead of younger brothers - I think we've seen that they actually do very well.
As for the issues of Canada and Australia, how frail is the bond if addressing discrimination at home will sever our ties? Are we imposing a head of state on these countries against their will? If so they should have their own heads of state now. Clinging onto vestiges of imperial history for the sake of it is pointless. We, and they, should want the monarchy for what it is. I'm proud of our past but would rather regain the ascendancy in the modern world than hold on to past glories.
stephen, Cambs, UK
hey, David Morrison - where did you unearth that bit of nonsense about 5 popes claiming salvation is only through Mary???? What you reading?? Sounds like some pretty wierd stuff. A perusal of the Catholic catechism will give you as clearly as any Protestant would require the unequivocal verdict that salvation is through our Lord Jesus. Period.
As for Mary, we should seek to imitate Him, obedient Jewish son who would follow the commandments and give honour to His mother.
michael, harrogate, uk
I thought the British were fair-minded - but boy, the bigots have come out to play today, haven't they?
David, NZ,
Rees-Mogg is wrong on the Australian constitution. There is no "can of worms" - the constitution merely provides that Australia's head of state is the reigning British monarch and his / her successors according to British law. No amendment to the Australian constitution would be required if the act of settlement were to be amended.
On the contrary one of the famous arguments of Australian republicans is the "Scargill scenario" - if Britain became a socialist republic tomorrow and appointed Arthur Scargill president, he would automatically become Australia's head of state.
Simon David, London,
The simpler solution would be to disestablish the Anglican Church of England - like the Orthodox Church of Greece - as happened to the Anglican Church of Ireland. This would also solve the problem which could face the British government if Prince Charles were to succeed his mother since the Duchess of Cornwall is also a Roman Catholic. Rees-Mogg refers to Northern Ireland. There is undoubtedly a religious tinge to the conflict there but Protestant politicians never had any difficulty in working with English Roman Catholics, such as the current secretary of state, Mr Woodward. Northern Irish Catholics, on the other hand, would never accept the sovereign authority of the Queen for long historical reasons and indeed enjoy a greater measue of freedom and civil rights than their English counterparts. No Catholic is barred from any public position in NI. England, in this respect, is both a legal and constitutional anomaly since it formally discriminates against non-Protestants.
Dr David Green, Athens, Greece
Globalisation is rampant . Why should religion be the exception? The divisions between churches have little to do with basic religious beliefs and are mainly "priest" driven. Every priest, of whatever denomination has their own little empire to defend and will always manage to find a reason to resist re-unification.
Whilst the divisions that have arisen in the past are understandable in their historic context , they cease to be justifiable in the context of the current situation in which we now live.
Perhaps the amendment of the Act of Settlement, to reflect up to date reality, could be a first step. In due course one would like to see this lead to the unification of the Catholic and Orthodox Churches.
Our far-seeing Prince of Wales has seen the light and recognises the duty of the Head of State to protect all genuine religious faiths.
Such an advance would undoubtedly please the man whose birthday we celebrate tomorrow.
Stephen Green, Correns, France
The basis of Parliamentary democracy is the Protestant.
Consider the obligation of the Catholic to obey Rome. The Catholic Church recently demanded that the elected representative of the people should pass legislation which has the approval of Rome even if contrary to the wishes of the people. Ann Widdicombe criticises Blair for passing legislation which runs counter to Catholic Teaching - gay marriage for example.
Catholic Doctrine is blatantly unChristian. I do not have room here to deliver an in-depth critique of that doctrine but, as an example, for a Pope to declare that Salvation is to be found only in Mary beggars belief. Yet that claim is made by 5 Popes - Pius IX, X, XI, Leo XIII and Benedict XV.
We would be foolish to allow Rome any formal say in our Parliament. It took a Civil War to establish our Parliamentary democracy which delivered the freedom we have today. There was no such freedom in the Papal States
In both Faith and Works Rome has shown her errors.
David Morrison, Airdrie, UK
Oh for God's sake, don't start all this up again.
Tom, London,
One must not forget that the Catholic Church is a very powerful secular body. Ronald Regan made that clear when he said " beside the cathloic church the CIA were amatures".
Those who understand prophecy, as opposed to those who do it for short term gain confirm that this 10th grouping now forming has all the chracteristicts of the final formation of the Roman Empire. There have been 9 other such bloody formations previously (contact FWDinsightat aol.com for further information for details) the last being Hitlers.
This final formation will be hugely successful for three and a half years. It will be headed up the Catholic Church along with a political and powerful military head. Europe has alway has such dictators in the past.
Britain will leave the EU in the short rather than the long term because how long can 5% who support the the EU and our continuing in this corrupt grouping where up to 95% of the £12 £billion we pay annualy is missing according to the Auditors. Goodbye EU
John, London, Berks
The advance of organised religions (whether Catholic, Protestant, Muslim or any other) is a danger to the freedoms we have long enjoyed because all religions have shown over the years that, once they attain any sort of dominance, they then expect to inflict their version of a world view on the entire population. Only by strictly eliminating region from any aspect of government can we prevent this. All elected officials should be required to swear, under oath, that as far as their performance of office are concerned, they agree that the secular state takes presidence over their faith. If they will not swear this, they should be barred from office
Bob Finbow, Haverhill, England
It's about time the UK was declared a secular state with the related changes of law and procedure required. This should be enshrined in a constitution so that any changes in religious identity, whether protestant, Catholic, Islam, or whatever, have no impact on the politics of the country.
David Jones, Loughborough, UK
The Act of Settlement is as valid today as it has ever been. Since when could the head of the Church of England be subserviant to the Head of the Church of Rome and should our monarch ever be subserviant to anyone but her own people?
It will be a dark day for the UK should this be repealed.
Harry Paget, Glasgow, UK
The prospect of the Pope's infallibility sweeping through this country, the so-called celibate clergy ramming their narrow but often self-preserving dictats on issues lile women 's choice, contracepton, stem cells research etc..on should send a shudder through the spines of the masses here who are of liberal outlook.. We should remember that all religions have worst record on human rights.
Gary Smith, LONDON,
William says: "Blair has himself become the most significant British convert since Newman".
I disagree, I think he's the most infamous.
aj, London,
I cannot see the point in changing the rule on Roman Catholicism. We don t need a Roman Catholic connection and any Roman Catholic can make themselves eligible by changing to Protestantism. Unless this country sees itself as embarking on some imperial adventure it has no relevance at all.
Henry Percy, London, UK
Ha,Ha,Ha!
Only in Britain there are still such arguments of debate!
Here in Italy (the "home" of catholicism) nobody cares if you are catholic or protestant (yess there are also italian protestants).
We have had an anglican Prime Minister and several former or current ministers are calvinist-waldesians; but I had to make a search on Wikipedia to know it. Who cares nowadays such things?
Canada will become independent because of an amendment of the Act of Settlement: it means it's time for that and there are no stronger reasons for the contrary.
Maybe in England many people have a distorted vision about catholics, Polish or South-american catholics are very different from west-european ones, the majority of the latters don't care at all about what the Pope says and are completely indistinguishable from a protestant in their behaviour.
Only converteds like mr.Blair make such a publicity on their religion.
Riccardo, Cremona, italy
It always amazes me that people who are athiests feel superior to those who have a belief in God. Most people in the world have a belief in a 'higher power' of some description, but no matter how learned the are they are dismissed as deluded. Quite why the burden of proof should always be demanded from the believers and not from the atheists to prove there is no God I am not sure.
Also, it was the pope of the times who conferred on Henry the eighth the title of 'Defender of the Faith' when he was a Roman catholic.
Margaret Laycock, Sanderstead,
As someone who has studied in depth the science of evolutionary biology and also engaged in discussion with theists and theologists, it's clear that the belief in a god requires faith which has nothing to do with an evidence-based rational stance and almost everything to do with the dogged insistence that because one feels something it must be true, despite all the evidence to the contrary.
For the majority of people, this blind faith can be explained by a lack of understanding of the facts (how many people, for example, really understand the theory of evolution?).
For well-educated and privileged people, such as a former prime minister, I find it inexcusable. If I had known the extent of Mr Blair's delusion when he was standing for office I would never have voted for his party.
If your beliefs do not stand up to rational debate you most certainly should not be running a country. Or a school.
TK, Manchester, UK
why does John Small think like his name ?
Everyone knows that Harry Potter is a ficticious character from a book. Jesus Christ was a real person born, lived and died 2000 years ago. What he said and did is still actively relevant today ; I think Harry Potter will be forgotten in 2000 years hence, even 50.
denis, bradford, West Yorkshire, england
As a christian I have to agree that no person with deeply held religous beliefs should be allowed to be in a position of high Government
Phill , The Wirral, England
To Pat, Marlborough, Uk:
The Reason to guard against the Catholic Church is simple, from Gregory the Great to date Rome has argued that it is above all Governments and refutes the values of democracy.
In our country it has special priviliges and demands that those continue - separate schools funded by the general taxpayer for example. Once a Roman Catholic ascends the throne we lose our Parliamentary democracy. Indeed even today the Church calls for its adherents in Public Office to accept laws which accord only with its teachings eg Gay marriage. Abortion. Yet we the people do accept the need for these so are our wishes to be over-ruled by diktat from Rome? Our Monarch must approve all Laws what would a Catholic Monarch do? If truly Catholic the Monarch would refuse the Royal assent to such laws.
My earlier comment has apparently been supressed. So much for freedom of speech - which freedom the Church condemns !
David Morrison, Airdrie, UK
What an utterly irrelevant issue to write about.
I should suggest that the reason there has been a dearth of constitutional reform with respect to the Monarchy is that no serious politicican can be bothered wasting their time it. What does it matter if a male or female, Catholic or Protestant (both believe in utter nonsense so they have more in common than they think) parasite ascends to the throne?
The United Kingdom is a Republic in all but name and the only piece of useful reform that I can think of is to abolish the anachronism of Monarchy.
Daniel, Belfast,
Oh dear, so the Roman Catholic Rees-Mogg has fallen for his own propaganda as have some readers it seems. The Church of England is by far the largest church in England and its figures for attendance which are published relate to those attending EVERY SUNDAY. They ignore the 15% or so who attend during the week when Sunday is not possible and they also ignore the majority who attend MOST Sundays but not all. On Christmas Day total attendances last year approached the 4 million mark and an estimate of CoE regular attenders is 1,7 million or about twice the figure for the Roman church which now includes a goodly number of Poles many of whom are hearing mass in Polish. These Poles set a good example to the rest of us!
christina speight, London, UK
Emily,you say there is a "lot of material ... which will prove to you that religion ... is not made-up, but very real." Ermm, no there isn't. Not a shard. Not one iota. Nothing. Nil. Zilch. We are talking no evidence whatsoever, anywhere.
I do notice you have chosen not to present it. Wonder why??
If there was this evidence then people would not have to talk about "faith" or "beliefs" as these concepts would not be required. If there was evidence then there would not be the plethora of religions we see around us. If there was evidence then you would not have atheists. But there isn't, no evidence at all. Ever wonder why? Is it perhaps it the same reason there is no evidence of the existence of the tooth fairy?
Baz, Edinburgh, Scotland
The statistics are not as simple as they appear to be in this article. True, there are indeed thousands of East European immigrant Catholics attending Catholic church services in the UK - but there are also a great many, not yet statistically counted, who are attending the traditional Latin Mass in High Anglican churches, since they find it difficult to adjust to the vernacular Mass, with folk liturgy hymns, which became common in the Catholic Church after Vatican II.
Edmund Burke, Kingston upon Thames, England
OH MY GOD! You mean to say that Australia may actally become a republic, Scotland and Quebec may declare independence, and women and Catholics would actually have the audaucity to ask for equal rights??!! Oh the humanity!
James Jones, Columbus, Ohio
Religious tolerance as well as freedom from gender bias and discrimination are liberties allotted to all humanity and should be immune from all political dictates, incontrovertible in their significance to a civilized society.
jon, champaign, illinois, usa
I'm surprised Blair didn't get struck by lightening
Paul, Las Vegas, USA
Well I doubt if Henry's order to kill or torture anyone who does not subscribe to his newly founded church is to please GOD and not himself. The act of settlement should be ammended. Too bad TB nor GB does not have the courage to change this obsolete law. Lets hope her majesty or her future successor decides to separate religion with the crown.
Stuart, London,
Why is it that the truth of Christ arouses such strident outbursts from those who are blind to the eternal dimension in man? We see all around us the glittering ruins of a soulless society, and still they wish to impose their narrowness on people whose perspective is enlightened by faith.
They should think of the Nativity and remember the word of God : "All those who hate me love Death." True wisdom, like that of Martin Luther King Jnr, starts where arrogance ends and awe awakens. It has more to do with a baby in a feed trough than with a PhD in Secular Sophistry.
Anth, Walsall,
Mr. Chuckman: The Catholic Church, founded by Jesus Christ, will accept anyone into its flock, as long as that person, if under the influence of sin, repents.
Mr. Kingsbury: Before making sweeping generalizations such as the one you made, there is a lot of material to be researched which will prove to you that religion and its mystical manifestation is not made-up, but very real.
Regards,
Emil More
Emil, Houston, USA
Let me get this right - on any given Sunday the best the combined Christian churches can do is field 1.6 million faithful out of a population of 60 million!
Why are we even bothering to count who has most members - the British public are overwhelmingly atheist/agnostic or don't care. We're long overdue in declaring the country to be majority non-religious.- as is the case for most of Western Europe.
The membership tussle between Catholics and Protestants in the UK is like two bald men fighting over a comb.
Chris Worsley, Seattle, USA
Perhaps we should get rid of all legislation that favours or disadvantages one religion over another. I hardly think the country will collapse as a result.
Pat, Marlborough, uk
It doesn't matter what religion he labels himself with, Blair is a war criminal. Full stop.
Had the Catholic Church any integrity, it would have refused him entrance at the front door.
JOHN CHUCKMAN, toronto, Canada
As all religion is made-up anyway, does it really matter?
Jon Kingsbury, Southampton, UK
Are there no Agnostic or Athiests out there? Does their opinion not count?
Yet again, religion takes the lead but all the votes aren't in. Why can religion subvert the democratic process?
Gary, London, UK
There are a few points that Mr Reese-Mogg seems to be discounting. Firstly, there are close to 1.6 million muslims in Britain, so Anglicans have been a minority faith for many years with none of this pious chatter about changing the core faith of the country. Secondly, any poll in Britain would find that the catholic church is still widely reviled. People hate the catholic church - both for historic reasons and because they equate it with fascism, bigotry and the wholesale rape of children. There is a disgust there that will never be overcome, particularly when the church is headed by an acknowledged nazi who venerates fascists. This country will never accept the Catholic church, and rightly so - it's a truly repellant organisation. So the argument sounds wishful at best.
Eric, London,
The Church of England was NOT founded to please a man. It may have been allowed by Henry to fulfil his wishes, but it is clearly founded on Scripture and in opposition to the men who seek to run world religion, of whatever hue, from Rome.
The founders, people such as Cranmer, Ridley, Latimer, and Thomas Cromwell, desired a church that was faithful to Scripture, and Henries dalliances made the way possible for such a church. God often uses such instances to acheive His ends - the Scriptures are full of such things.
Read, mark, learn - from the Bible, and do not bow the knee to men who think they know better than that teaches!
Bishop Stockford, Teddington, Middlesex
Blair's conversion is neither an important or significant event. Nor has it any bearing on the state of Catholicism in the
UK which will remain in precisely the same position as it always has done. Attempts by Catholics to insinuate themselves as some sort of new official religion of the state
is old hat and will never get a look in.
John Vestey, Porto Ercole, Italy
What is this RC obsession with a future monarch being a Catholic? The Lutheran Queen of Denmark's husband is a Catholic, but there was no question of their childen being Catholic. The King of Spain's wife is Greek Orthodox, but their children are not Greek Orthodox.
Let the Monarch of the thrones of England and Scotland marry a Roman Catholic and let the Catholic spouse declare that any children will be brought up in the Anglican faith. Otherwise this all smacks of a popish plot.
wilson, London, UK
"Blair presented him with an autographed photograph of Cardinal Newman, the most significant Catholic convert of the 19th century. Blair has himself become the most significant British convert since Newman."
I think you have it in that sentence. Blair is doing this purely for the headlines, nothing more. If he was not, why all the fancy "look at me" publicity by carrying out his indoctrination in Westminster.
As with everything he has done in his career, he is only looking for self-grandeur, nothing more. I find it rather ironic that he now seeks to join one of the most controlling religions on earth, after he has spent the last 10 years seeking to control every facet of ordinary people's lives.
Nigel Meek, Epping,
I am always bemused by the term "English Crown", as thought the Act of Union had never happened. Prince William is often referred to as the "future King of England". Is it any wonder that more and more Scots regard the Monarchy as an irrelevance. As to a Catholic monarch, it wouldn't be the first time, and isn't it more strange to have a hereditary head of state and a hereditary head of the Church (of England)?
Sean Frighil, Rochford, UK
Anyone with "deeply held religious beliefs" shouldn't be allowed to hold high office. We wouldn't allow someone who believed Harry Potter was a real person to be in charge of the country so why is a belief in other fairy tales acceptable, even desirable?
John Small, Faversham, UK
King henry's decision to split from the mother church (catholic) and declare himself as the head of the anglican church is probably the most crucial issue as to why these laws are not and will not be addressed today.
Imagine a roman catholic being the king of England - This will also make him the head of the anglican church!!! Can you imagine that? Do you think the powers that be will allow that to happen?
charbel, sydney, australia
If this country (UK) is genuinely to advance then ,with all respect to William Rees-Mogg, nonsenesical debates such as this must be ended forever.
A Secular Parliamentary Republic would cover all points raised by such a leading proponent of the great & the good as WRM.
Many serious problems can be found in the country of my birth and nuture but that partticular one is easily solved.
As the great commoneryou you are WRM, I think (and hope) you have found yourself "Behind the curve"
Peter Bolt, Redditch, England
Quebec Catholic? A growing percentage of the francophone population of Quebec is not baptized. True, they are a minority, but a significant one. Most of those who are baptized and nominally Catholic don't bother getting married when they found a family, and couldn't care less about the Catholic Church's official doctrines. The immigrant population probably provides half the attendance at weekly masses.
True, Quebeckers aren't generally Royalists, but I doubt the Queen's religion has anything to do with that. As for Canada maintaining the monarchy, personally I feel the only long term chance of that would be for us to have our own monarch, perhaps the first British prince or princess who would marry a Bourbon!
Marc Waller, Montréal, Quebec, Canada
Quote: If the Act of Settlement is repealed then it is the end for this nation. Wrong: Britain was Catholic before King Henry VIII established his own Church in England.
To return to her original faith was the right thing to do. Can you call Church of England a church? This church is established to please a man, not GOD, until now its teachings or doctrines is to please men.
Stuart, London,
If the act of settlemnt were to change to allow for a catholic to sit on the throne,then charles accession is not automatic. I'm sure there must be a very very young pretender watching events carefully.
yous michael barnett
michael barnett, woodville, new zealand
Why would any sane adult voluntarily submit onself to the ecclesiastical authority of the Pope?? Could you imagine allowing a grown man who wears robes and believes that he's "Gods representative on Earth" to tell you what you can and can't do, for god's sake?! We have enough trouble with politicians trying to make assinine rules for the rest of us that just the fleeting thought of voluntarily surrendering even more decision making over one's life to an institution so at odds with personal liberty, such as the RC church, is unbelievable. Monstrous even. I'm at a loss for words, so much so that I can only surmise that Blair must be a complete idiot or a nutter.
Scott, Durham, NC, USA
Protestant Church attendance in 2006 is put at 1674000. The only growing parts of the Church in England are Protestant.
England, as a state, is a protestant country.
The only viable challenges to this are from Islam and secularism. Catholicism will soon return to its rapid decline after the transfer of people from Eastern Europe slows. The reintroduction of indulgences and Latin mass should speed the process.
Man in a Shed, Woking, England
We really don't want to be in thrall to Rome any more than we want to be in thrall to Islam. People need to realise the danger this group poses to the British way of life - they do not teach Scripture, they make up their own rules for their own benefit (power and financial benefit).
If the Act of Settlement is repealed then it is the end for this nation.
Bishop Stockford, Teddington, Middlesex
Where in the Old or the New Testament are Catholics, Protestans, Orthodox etc. mentioned?
Politics and faith should not be mixed.
Maria Dachs, Oxford,
I suspect the "can of worms" will open when our present Queen is no longer with us. All types of changes are likely to occur then.
ken, bournemouth,
Asked how he saw the future, Macmillan memorably replied, "Events, dear boy, events!"
Rest assured all these issues that have been highlighted in this clever article, will be the product of "Events".
The religious items are already being planned for.
I happen to know that both Catholics and Anglicans have plans already in place for a meltdown in membership.
It will come.
Australia will definitely be a Republic, but within the Commonwealth, in the next 5 years.
Scotland will be independent but within the Commonweath in 5 years.
I doubt that the monarchy will remain the same when Charles and Camilla assume the throne.
Diana has cast a long shadow!
Events are going to utterly enthral us for decades!
Go to sleep, you old lovely scoundrel, Macmillan!
John Collins, Florianopolis, Brazil