Eric, Southwick - "we have a caring competant government ."???!!!
Are you planning a return to this planet any time soon?

Bystander, Lincoln, UK

Gordon Brown is the man who announced that Brtain proudly gives India £800million a year to supports its schools. The Indian cricket leagues gegnerates £800m per year in sponsership and prizes and wages. who has their priorities right them or us?

Tony D, gloucester, england

In 1997 Brown deceitfully took £5 billion a year from final salary pension funds, leading to their collapse, as they had been projected with this now denied income. Blair signed away the EU rebate which Thatcher fought for (which is where this money has gone) and may become the first EU President.

Mark, North London, England.

William; Can you tell when will this man called Brown act on
£3.9 shell profit £3.31 BP profit
British airport authorities they are government themselves

How much more money can these greedy conglamorates take out of the system , Heathrow is a disgrace you get robbed when parking there.

Andrew, erith, kent

Hi Bob of London
Capital gains - you must be joking! If you look at pension provision and the stock market in which most private sector pensions are invested there has been virtually no capital gain at all since Brown/Blair came to power.

patrick hall, London, UK

When MP.s vote themselves 52% pay rises and run expense accounts in excess of many peoples salaries it is not surprising people stirke, I am surprised the country is not in a state of civil war, and before anyone cries nonsense think Oliver Cromwell.

A I, wales,

why should they have a *final* salary scheme - and not one based on how much they have put in , for how long (like most people do).

the people who signed up to the final scheme are still gettign it, so its only new people who know exactly what they are going in for.

why is *final* salary fair?

a, preston, lancs

I wondered how long it would take before it became Gordon's fault.

It's good to know that everything bad in the world is one person's fault and all we need to do to improve things is get rid of them!

Craig F, Glasgow, UK

May be of interest.

Sanjeev Mehta, Baroda, India

I think you are right in your sub headline. It seems to me that it arises from the never apologise never explain part of British politics, and, in that respect, Gordon Brown s reticence with regard to his actions as Chancellor. At least I know the basic reason for that. But, speaking as an outsider, I have had to work out for myself why there has been this retreat from final salary pensions. I should have been made well aware of the reasons through merely superficial media coverage.

Henry Percy, London, UK

The pension crisis affects the western world. The problem is caused by many factors : pension contribution holidays taken by employers in the 1980's and 1990's, the volatile stock market, the aging population, as well as tax changes. Come on Mogg a fair evaluation please - we are not idiots.

F. Poole, Stoke-on-Trent, Staffordshire

Surely if the pension offered is bad the workers can simply leave and go work for that other company offering so much better pensions....oh hang on, there isn't one!?

So who gets to decide the level that is "fair"? My vote goes to the market.

Dave Gibson, Nantwich, United Kingdom

Brown has to satisfy Expat Peter who's lucky to have a final salary pension, plus the Tory attack-dogs agitating for the poor (for once in their lives) over the 10p rate. Truth is, for 11 years Brown helped the middle class AND the poor, but is now bad-mouthed by Tory opportunists.

Bob, London,

My understanding of this is that terms are changing for current employees. Aren't they introducing a 6% direct employee contribution for the same benefits? Therefore, a pay cut is on the way for refinery employees. That's why they are striking (rightly or wrongly).

Mark, Kirkcaldy, Scotland, UK.

The way I understand it, no one currently employed will loose out --- only future employees.

So whats the problem with the union? They'll only put the prospect of a £750 million investment in jeopardy.

Grangemouth could close -- full stop -- and open up somewhere else, like in England.

Phil, Preston,

Congratulations - at last someone is reminding everyone that the real reason for all these pension problems - and the impoverishment of the next generations of pensioners - lies squarely at Gordon Brown's door.
Why cannot he be sued for the untold damage he has done to British pensions?

john renwick, glasgow,

As a medical student I was told about people would be living for longer in the early 1970's. It is no surprise and and everyone connected with pensions knew about it at the time of Mr. Brown's ill judged intervention into the taxation rules for pension funds.

Dr A dyson, Southwell, UK

Bob, does that mean public sector die earlier than private sector? My companies scheme closed due to tax on dividends and the fact that any pension deficit had to be reported in the balance sheet. That affects the share price and to close the gap as required by GB new rules wasn't affordable.

Peter Thornton, Limnos, Greece

Boo hoo for Ineos. BP got a high price for the site + they are now cost cutting to try and re-coup some of their outlay. Blaming the Government is moronic. Here's a well funded non indebted scheme that doesn't need altering. Too many firms had too many payment hols + that was the biggest problem.

A Thomas, Lanchester,

It is strange that Brown gets all the flak. To severely weaken private pensions just as stakeholders were being introduced was a massive error of judgement but Thatcher started the rot by cutting the state pension. We now have weak state and private pensions - an intolerable situation.

Matthew Thomas, Bristol,

I don't believe that the downfall of final salary pension schemes was simply due to changes made by .......(I hate him and can't mention him by name).... but was down to new accounting rules. Didn't companies suddenly have to show that they had sufficient liquidity to support generous schemes?

Peter Ellis, Calpe, Spain

Does the media not known that the refinery is regularly shutdown for "turn around maintenance" without disruption of supplies

Anthony J, Alton , Uk

Thank goodness for the United Kingdom, without it we would have no oil or gas. I note that Alex is silent on this benefits of the Union!

Peter Auld, Irvine,

The idea that the "stealth tax" on pensions was resonsible for the current difficulties in final-salary pension schemes is largely untrue, and really should be discareded. The culprits are too many firms making no contributions in the good days of the 90's, and over-zealous accountancy rules.

Alex Johnson, London, UK

Peter Thornton, Limnos, it's ridiculous to blame Brown for the demise of final salary pensions, which is due to actuaries realising that people are living longer. To suggest that a company would close a pension scheme because the recipients' dividends are taxed is nonsense.

Bob, London,

You can write any wishy washy in news papers if you have an access to column. Blame Gordon Brown, or any one else if you like; but pension funds have been destroyed through low returns becasue of low interest regime for many years. Its a world wide phenomenon, not british alone.

M. A. Jabbar, Altrincham, England

You never seem to be out of your "negative droning" towards Labour Mr Mogg............I frankly find your consistant output of vindictive articles offensive and pure speculative rightwing milarky...........................The reality is,we have a caring competant government .

Eric, Southwick, West sussex

Reluctantly, we must accept that Gordon Brown is the British Prime Minister, even though he did not achieve that eminent position via the ballot box.

As Chancellor, Mr Brown robbed many ordinary, decent, hard-working people.

Pensions, I.S.A's and capital gains tax relief were all stolen.

jinette bond, morecambe, england

How Not To Have Social Cohesion

Brown may be an intellect. However, it is often the danger of the intellectual to ignore the big picture and focus on the detail. Brown lost sight of the big picture. Indeed there was never a 'Big Idea'.

His myopia will destroy him and, perhaps, his country.

joe, Berwickshire, Scotland

Brown has wrecked the occupational pensions industry . He failed to deliver value for money and squandered the additional public expenditure of the past 10 years.He has failed to control tax credit fraud and vat fraud. He sold off gold reserves for 25% of their worth .He couldn't rub a sweetshop.

Richard Wyld, Effingham, UK

"Adapt to survive" I understand. "Strike to survive" doesn't have the same ring to it.
I did like that "all workers in all companies should consider striking" - brilliant!

David, Bromley,

For 30 years governments have added to the cost of running a final salary pension scheme. Costs were increased by introduction of the PPF, indexation and tax changes, to name a few.
The unions need to grow up. Pensions for existing employees are not being changed. Be grateful for small mercies.

Laure, London,

To Bob in London; For how many "minor setbacks" by GB have we to be grateful? How do suggest we express our gratitude?

Bill Peter, Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

Companies are running down final salary pensions because the actuaries have told them that people are living too long. It's ridiculous to claim that Brown caused this to happen. Taxing dividends does not close down pension schemes.

Bob, London,

The current workers are being hit with changes to their pension.

For years they have been paid less than the industry standard because of the good pension plan in place. They are now having to contribute(while their wages are still below standard),work for longer and get far less of a pension.

Claire, Grangemouth,

WRM is right. The destruction of properly funded final salary pensions has caused a huge problem and Brown did it. His seeky grab of pensions divideneds called the end of private sector pensions as they had been, But the fat public sector ones kept going. GB has one of these.

Merlin, Northampton,

Perhaps your Politburo should take a pensions stance on more eu-than-asia!

Yosip, Moscow, Russia

There is primarily only one villain to this piece, Jim Ratcliffe, who has bought a huge number of assets via his private equity deals, using borrowed money at low interest rates. Now that the credit crunch is starting to bite him on the bum he's screwing the workers for a few million pounds per year

Mike, Durham,

Time for a pensions review committee? Manned (with apologies to mesdames Smith, Harman, Kelly and Blears), no doubt, by frontbench lesser "intellectuals" ?

Mike L, Chippenham, Wilts

How exactly is this Brown's fault? Okay, he allowed individuals to get very rich by buying up huge bits of British industry on borrowed money, but he's hardly the first politician to suck up to asset strippers.

david, Ely,

"Intellectually, Mr Brown may be the ablest man on the Labour front bench" . That's not saying much, the entire cabinet seem to be brainless drones repeating the same cliches ad nauseum...
"the real issue here is..."
"we're looking at the long term view..."
"best x for a generation, lowest y..."

AHH, London,

Intellectual Mr. Mogg ? Foggy Brown enjoys playing mind games but is intellectually addled.

roger sykes, christchurch,

Regardless of GB , final salary pensions would have been phased out anyway, perhaps Brown hastened their demise but he is not the cause; longetivity and the uncertainty about long term costs are. The fact that he gets the blame makes him a bad politician not a bad economist.

Jason White, Paris,

'Mr Brown....has an analytical penetration far beyond his predecessor'
Really? How, I wonder, did he not understand the potential damage likely to follow from the impact of his 10p tax 'reform'?

m collins, Leeds,

my problem here is two fold.. a union should not be legally entitled to call for strike action for new and future employees. these paeple have a choice...take the job as offered or dont

Brown's pillage of the pension funds at a time when pension comtributions were controlled was simply theft.

zugerman, zurich, switzerland

The pension bomb is a direct result of company pension holidays, not G Brown. The experts did not cash in their gains from shares and fix their profit with bonds. They were so convinced of their supreme cleverness they ignored the bleeding obvious. Shares go down as well as up.

sid, derby,

It is telling that this article is next to Tim Hames'. One does not have to look very far to find real cause for disliking Labour and for labelling them with the blame for the non sequiturs that have arisen as a result of their partiality and class politics. Labour are the Lords of Misrule.

Malcolm Turner, Alsager, England

The point that politicians & commentors seem to overlook is that if private/company provision of pensions is insufficient, the State will in time be obliged to bail out the 'pensioner poor'. Far better that all employees & employers have (by law) to provide in working life for a decent pension.

R Lindsey, Chesterfield, UK

Think thatcher and her vison for the country , look after no one vsion foro every citizien, one mans pension is another mans dividend. on another note a pound of semtex coud bring the whole country to a standstill.

michael , cahersiveen-adams town, madness

All workers in all companies should consider striking over this issue. The closing of final salary pension schemes is part of a massive transfer of risk from companies and the government to individuals. Don't let this proceed.

Nick, Rotherham, UK

Mr Brown is a socialist, i.e. he knows what is good for us and expects us, the public, not to know this, hence he ignores our complaints when his "ideal" schemes cause us problems.

He wants us to depend on the givernement and not think for ourselves, but we do Mr Brown as will be seen on 1 May.

Steve Oakley, Boston Spa, UK

It is hard to understand the motivation of people like Mr Ratcliffe. Does he believe he is immortal? Does he think his riches will buy him a single minute more, or open the pearly gates for him? How many houses can he live in at one time, how many cars can he drive? Give the men a pension.

Clive, Monterrey, Mexico

Yet another pie that Calamity Brown has had his stubby bitten finger in. Everything he touches is a nightmare.

Roger, Surrey,

People have had enough - well said Rees-Mogg !!!!

Ian Payne, WALSALL,

Brown, is the weakest leader to lead a party since Michael Foot. His constant dithering, despite his self proclaimed ,intellectual iron chancellor, just shows how out of his depth he really is. Labour in the last ten years have completely dstroyed our pensions, he should pay with his job.

Rob, Henely On Thames,

The union has a right to strike to protect pensions of existing Ineos workers but surely not for people who are not and may never be employed by the Co. Gordon is culpable for destroying UK pensions but no-one will be able to reform CS pensions until MPs even more generous pensions are reduced.

Donna Walker, Effingham, Surrey

Gordon Brown has taxed the life out of this country. He's totally responsible for the demise of the final salary pensions in the private sector effectively creating a two tier system with public sector final salary pensions being paid for by those without one. Hardly a minor setback Bob!

Peter Thornton, Limnos, Greece

All the talk of reserve stocks, shipping in alternatives and the fact that a medium term strike will be over the summer period so that the "frail,ill and needy" heating card is a non starter. Why does this remind me of the coal strike which had been similarly provoked?

michael murphy, brightlingsea, e

Even if pensions are a problem, the big elephant in the room is fuel costs. Rumours of prices as high as £1.47 a litre for diesel are horrific if your livelihood is transport where spending £1000.00 can become £1400.00 with inflated prices. Truckers visit:
www.toamazing.com/fuelcell4truckers.html

Jas, Alders, UK

But the union is not "entitled to defend workers' pensions by strike action" when no workers' pensions are under threat. Only future (ie non-existent) workers will be offered a less favourable pension. The apparent "moderation" of the union must be read in light of the fact that no one is losing out

John Scott, London,

HM Forces had their pension system changed in 2005. The changes were 'sold' as providing greater pension BENEFITS. Those on the old scheme could stay with it; many chose to because the new scheme paid less. As ALL new recruits HAVE to accept the new scheme, they can choose not to join - simple.

David L, London,

The irony is that, in the long run, Brown was right to abolish final salary pensions but the way he went about it was ham-fisted and ludicrous.. Had he spread its abolition over, say, five years, he would have given industry, the pensions industry and the stock market the time to adapt.

Colin Grey, Oxshott, UK

Payback for Gordons pension theft..go for it .

mitch, Wolverhampton, England

Brown made Blair look good as PM but Blair made Brown look good as Chancellor.

stephen hulton, eure, France

In a country with intelligent leadership, politicians with vision and top civil servants with real ability, the horrible social division of the present public/private pensions division would have been anticipated and solved.

MikeMSN, Midsomer Norton, UK

The Grangemouth workers, quite rightly, won't be lectured on "reasonable pension provision" by anyone with a rock-solid public-sector pension paid for by their tax dollars.

Lets see similar "reasonable provision" in town halls,civil service, military, teachers etc ... Then we can talk!

Pedro, Stratford,

The only fact in this emotional argument concerns the taxing of pension fund dividends. But this was a mere shaving of the fat of capital gains which accrued over the eleven years of Brown's stewardship of the economy. To complain about this minor setback is malign and ungrateful.

Bob, London,