It is not a democratic deficit. It is a democratic vacuum.

We, the people, must destroy the European dictatorship (ED) before it destroys us.

Terry, London, UK

People in Ireland voted NO because they saw no good reason to give away their constitution. It was clear to Irish people that the intent was to set up an EU government. If the the French and Germans treat us in this manner after a NO vote - imagine where we would be after a YES. NO means NO.

Michael O´Leary, Dublin, Ireland

"I agree with DavidB. But then, The Times was the newspaper of appeasement in the 1930s".

Better an appeaser than an isolationist, Mr Keen. Britain tried to deal with Hitler and Mussolini without starting another frightful war. The USA simply turned its back until Hitler declared war on it.

Tom Welsh, Basingstoke,

What we all need is LESS government not more. Does any other ordinary decent citizen (the type that creates wealth rather than squanders it on committees and layers of government) feel like an irrelevance in their self propagating politico world? More dentists, less politicians, less cameras!!!!!

DEvans, Caerdydd, UK

I'm desperately worried about this Gerald geezer from Aarhus in Denmark and have a nagging doubt that he is entirely kosher.

John Dorman, Melbourne,

Gerald B., Aarhus, Denmark: YES, and YES. We should get out of the EU NOW. It's never done us any good and never will. The sooner we become the 51st State the better for all hard-working self-starters like me. Maybe we can send all the spongers to France?

Dave, Notts, UK

Mr Rees-Mogg,

What exactly is wrong with having a federal european state that can form as a nation?
We the British, have an unjustified, overinflated opinion of ourselves on the world stage. George W. Bush has already proved that we are puppets of America.

The EU makes us stronger in the world.

William, Bristol, England

People keep writing to newspapers and stating that the Lisbon Treaty has been agreed by by 26 governments. Yes, but has it been agreed by the people of the 26 governments. ??? You know very well...... if you are intelligent, that there is vast difference, the answer is NO. Brown is a good example

Phil de Buquet, Newport,

Surely it is obvious now that the E.U. is too big to become a
new nation called Europe. There needs to be a split, an inner
corps that becomes a new nation called Europe, and the rest
of us who become Associate members & friends of the EU,
but retain our independance, currency, Armed Forces ect

Roger, Weymouth, England

Gerald B., Aarhus, Denmark
If only we were given the opportunity to leave we would be out like a shot.
As I recall the Danes were not to enamoured with the Maastricht Treaty and voted against it although your parliament ignored that and forced it through anyway

Nick Mackenzie-Rowe, Halesowen, West Midlands

It's this sort of drivel which is poisoning the UK against Europe, the sort which Mr Rees-Mogg and the Telegraph in particular have been peddling since the 1970s, which contorts reality to paint the EU as an enemy rather than a valued partner. Get a grip, it's 2008 not 1908!

Edward Smith, Reading, EU

Well said Gerald B, a solution isn't reached by compromise or reasoned argument, but by forcing things to a head.

Your comments might also be seen as a tad hypocritical given Denmark's own "No" vote to the Maastricht Treaty, should Denmark have simply left the EU in 1992?

Edward Murdoch, Glasgow, UK

Mr Rees-Mogg, What is a frustrated citizen to do about a government run by tyrants. Revolt or refuse to pay tribute to an undemocratic regime? Please do not say vote, because we have been denied that right. Next week, kindly let us know your thoughts on what a disenfranchised electorate should do.

Pauli, Oxford,

Usual William Rees confussed EU bashing. It is time that he used fact based argument.

The Union as a whole upholds personal liberty and freedom far more than any individual state and the Treaty of Lisbon enshrines these rights.

Only the UK has opted out of the declaration on human rights.

Peter GODDARD, Epsom, England, EU

Very pleased with the results and hope the Irish vote wil make people think about the whole Europe Union concept.
The countries which really get an advantage would be France, Germany, and the Benelux, and they're all of course very keen to centralise the administration. All others should resist.

Emiliano Russo, London, UK

It is misleading to refer to EU initiatives as the work of Eurocrats imposing their views on the dispossessed masses. The Lisbon Treaty was negotiated and agreed by 27 national governments. To characterise the process as Brussels against the rest provides no clarification, no way forward.

Simon Napper, Devizes, UK

There is little democracy in either this country or the EU. As an individual there is no difference in being walked all over by Westminster or Brussels. The myth of British democracy is supported by a continuing world war 2 style propoganda of British is right/best. We are in a deep political mess.

mike gee, bournemouth, uk

I'm pleased the Irish voted 'No'. Can you imagine Brussels setting taxation policies across Europe?

Chantel , Wales,

Davis discovers "personal liberty" only when the issue is holding terrorist suspects for 42 days.Frankly I can't get excited about holding these people for 42 or even better 60 days.It's funny that the media don't see a personal liberty issue with us being filmed everywhere by CCTV; DNA swabs etc.

C.Elder, Paris, France

The "No" lobby in Ireland consisted of Sinn Fein, some trade unions and two prominent businessmen with strong commercial ties to the American military(!). Their "interpretations" (these varied widely) of the treaty were at odds with the views of a host independent legal experts.

Niall, Galway, Ireland

Henry94, Cork, Ireland

I'll support you 200%. I'm trying to get an Irish flag to fly now on Ebay.

Bob, Cowes , UK

Ultimately it was hard to excite the Irish public about the prospect of "making Europe work better". People voted no out confusion, though the (admittedly complex) issues were clearly explained in information sent to each home by an independent commission.

Niall, Galway, Ireland

It is really very worrying that Ireland's NO vote will in all likelihood be ignored. It doesn't matter that such a small minority could actually be bothered to vote - the fact is that they did, democratically, and that result should stand. Otherwise we may as well be ruled by a despot like Mugabe.

Jan Elliott, Portrush,

It is unsurprising that those governments whose leaders have been so quick to speak out and advocate ignoring the Irish referendum result are governments of nations that in the last century either had totalitarian governments or collaborated with those nations with totalitarian government.

J Williams, Manchester, UK

The wierdest part is that the Irish voters, by following the voting advice of Sinn Fein, have arrived at the same point as Rees Mogg and the carpet chewers who write in support of his isolationist views. Paranoia and willful ignorance, a deadly combination.

John, Lisbon,

"The Times was the newspaper of appeasement in the 1930s.Nicholas Keen, Rose Valley, Penna, USA"
In the 1930 s the USA believed in isolationism.
Perhaps all change is not for the better?

Bernard, Edinburgh, Scotland

I really must laugh because of all of this: The EU is threatening democracy. What a joke ! Britain's own system (districts) is such that minorities always rule over mayorities ! Present EU is more democratic then the UK ! Let alone a EU with the treaty !

Patrick Verhoeven, Gouda, Holland

A multi-nation concentration was tried in the old USSR (soviet) but it just didn't work out. Now, the western Eurocrats want to try the same thing.

The definition of insane is doing the same thing, but expecting different results. Evidently, that's what's in process at EU headquarters.

Buddy, Henderson, USA

Gerald B., Aarhus, Denmark

It isn't just the British and Irish who distrust (not resent, although you will always find people who do) the current EU policy. The French voted no, as did the Dutch, as would the Czechs and Poles if given the choice. What we DO resent is the lack of democracy!

Philip, Nottingham,

Europe believed in Ireland and funded its escape from poverty. Now Ireland rejects Europe. The world opened its arms to Irish immigrants that left impoverished due to British rule. The Irish and British Conservatives are now together.

BTW Scotland should be independent and protect its oil resource

Jon Michael, Cape Town, South Africa

Destroying the House of Lords was Labour's greatest blow against freedom - everything else about the former UK derives from that.

Rami, London, Former UK

Just want to say a big Thank You, Lord Rees-Mogg, for consistently opposing the EU and for educating people as to why Britain should leave.
I do hope you have a lot of influence in the Lords, so that this awful constitution is halted.
Let's get out of the EU and get our fish back!!!

Sweet Pea, LEOMINSTER, Herefordshire

It seems to me quite wrong to have Whips in the House of Lords. The whole point of a second chamber is to get a different viewpoint, more reasoned, less hidebound by party. Peers should vote by secret ballot and any attempt to coerce them along party or other lines should by punished by expulsion.

Rosemary, Germany,

Since the UK and Ireland so resent the EU, I suggest both recall their membership and let the rest of us get on with developing the Union.
After a cooling period both might wish to apply for the posts of 51st and 52nd United States of America?

Gerald B., Aarhus, Denmark

The unelected elite running the EU cannot continue to foster the democratic deficit that now exists. The wishes of the electorates in the countries in the EU MUST be sought and recognised or the only thing left for them to do is take direct action.

Philip AD Secretan, Lewes, UK

Simon/London is right. If Cameron could grasp this and use Davis' selfless move, he could further weaken Brown and split his Labour rebels (who value liberty more than fearing the whips) from the government.

It's been a week and Brown still can't decide to contest the by-election!

brian, chichester, uk

I'm still baffled that EU fans don't get the simple point that an EU without a popular vote has no legitimacy. If all we do is wave this through parliaments, then politicians will be dealing with the legitimacy of the EU fifty years from now. They will never be able to say "You voted for it".

jon livesey, Sunnyvale, CA/USA

The government not allowing the public a referendum is nothing less than a treasonous act. We need change, fixed terms + term limits. Set dates for elections, allow for a PM to be impeached if he does not bow to the overwhelming pressure of the people he is appointed to serve. He isn't elected even.

Adrian Tysoe, Haslemere,

The salient feature of Davis campaign is it's appeal to rank and file Lib Dems and disaffected Labour backbenchers. His council estate background doesn't hurt either.

Cameron should think laterally and view this as an opportunity - it may accelerate the demise of this discredited government.

Simon, London,

Just what is it in the new constitution that is a threat to liberty.
It proposes qualified majority voting on certain issues within the European Parliament.
Scotland , Ireland and Wales do not have a veto in parliament , Do you want to introduce one ?
Will you give Scotland control of its oil ?

Douglas Maxwell, Richmond, Yorkshire

I agree that the European Commission is showing absolute contempt for democratic processes. But I still fail to see how an incompetent non-organisation is a bigger threat to liberty than a 42-day detention plan and an omnipresent CCTV system.

Erik, the Hague, Netherlands

'Everyone' in the UK hates the EU but nobody has a suggestion of an alternative, except going back to the trading block idea. And who is going to buy that in Europe? Forget it. The EU is here to stay and we should get in there and influence its future workings instead of whingeing on about it.

john problem, winchester, uk

With so many countries with in the EU it is no wonder that we find no consensus on the Lisbon Treaty. Could it be that are we on the slippery slop of EU implosion

Clive, Dartford, Kent

Just exactly WHY do the LEADERS in democracies such as the UK, France, Germany and even Ireland, seem so determined to hand over their held-in-trust national powers to unelected and unelectable EU civil servants. What are their reasons? Dare they not tell us? Is there a hidden agenda? What is it?

Don Porter, Winchester, UK

The level of surveillance which is accepted in THIS country would be unimaginable in any other EU-member. As for liberal values: Let's talk about this, once the CoE has ceased to be a "state religion". As for democracy: Replace the House of Lords with a representation of the constituent countries

Keith, London, UK

Yes Mr RM If there was no EUSSR there would be no need for curtailing individual freedoms. Barrie Redfern
What a bizarre reason for sliding into an Orwellian nightmare. We can still have alliances within Europe if needed to counter Russia ,China, India ,etc but Europe drops us in it not the USA

Sandra, Walsall, UK

Reform not withdrawal is what is required in Europe.
The eradiction of the Democratic deficit is the solution.
Achieving this against the resistance of the political elite autocracy of Brussels is the challenge.
Turkeys don't vote for Christmas especially if Brussel Sprouts are also on the menu.

Stephen Green, Correns, France

So the restriction of the right of News International to campaign that the UK remains a puppet state of the US is a loss of liberty.
George Orwell would well recognise Rees-Mogg and the interests he represents.

Eddie Reader, birmingham, england

Can I make a very simple point, Britain has been at war in Iraq for 5 years, in an illegal conflict that has resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands. Why? Because the President of another country ordered your government to. He probably coudn't point out Britain on a map. Think about it.

paul, carlow, Ireland

Rees Mogg is right, but I have come to the conclusion that the only credible response to the determination to achieve a coup by the political elite driving this is to quit the EU. The Conservative Party is kidding itself if it believes reform is possible. It's UKIP for me from now on.

David, Chester,

I am delighted that the Irish vote has seemingly defeated this dreadful treaty (at least for now)

What I still fail to understand is why British (& other) politicians should WANT to give all the power that they have craved for so long away in the first place. Perhaps someone here will enlighten me

David, St Albans, UK

Surely the failure of the government to hold a referendum is also an attack on one of the fundamentals of english constiutional law, the sanctity of pre-election promises. Clearly intervening events may make it impossible to fulfil some promises, but this is a breach of faith

Jeremiah, London,

1st misconception: "Unelected Eurocrats decide everything". Untrue: The Commission (the eurocrats) only propose legislation: this is approved by Council (national govts) and EU Parliament (elected by eurocitizens). No obscure conspiracy there.

Fernando Hervás, Brussels, Belgium

Australia, unlike the U S, had no desire to get away from Britian. When Britian went into the Commom Market, it was said that it is usually the children who left home, but in this case, it was Mother, [ as in the Mother Country.] It would be good if we could become closer again.

margie , victoria, australia

An interesting debate but one that misses the EU point. Read Booker and North's 'The great deception' and you will see that the end game is an EU super state run by a political elite. Peter Mandloson said 'We are entering the post democcratic era'. Only leaving the Eu will make us safe!

John, Wolverhampton,

The surveillance state and EU principles are intrinsically linked, as you well know.

What is it with you all, are you all frightened of the EU, or just merely concerned what you will lose if you discuss this elephant in the room?

Jane, Saffron Walden,

Can someone tell me just what Britishness and Liberty are? Having been raised in the UK and served her armed forces for most of my life I consider myself a proud Briton; but nationalist rhetoric and fear-mongering about Europe does us and our generations to come no good; our brave Nation must decide

Arthur D, Paris,

There should be a law called the "soveriegnty act" stating that any parliament cannot under any circumstances subordinate itself to a foriegn power for any reason, for in subordinating itself a parliament is subordinating the British people. A simple solution to futher attmepts at treason by our MPs

Gareth, monmouth, UK

When did this Government ever give a fig for we, the people? as long as they can keep their snouts in the trough they will continue to ride roughshod over us, our liberties and our unwritten Constitiution. - the EU Constitution HAS to be ratified by ALL member States - it should be dropped

Liz Brown, Montmartin en Graignes,

If the Govt continues to ignore the view of the electorate the next Euro elections will return more UKIP MEPs. The Govt is behaving undemocratically & will deserve its oblivion at the next election. Euroscepticism is growing across Europe with justification. If we can't have a say, we should get out

Donna Walker, Effingham, England

EU is now the big bad wold of Europe - a decade or so ago it was COMMUNISM !!!!!

ian payne, walsall,

There is no country in Europe that has not desired to dictate to the rest and sought to do so,The two countries France and Germany have brought about wo European wars and Two world wars. Spain Italy France Germany are still giving directives !

G Blezard, London, uk

The E.U. didn't give us the war of lies, the deaths of countless innocent people, the maiming of countless innocent people, the torture of helpless prisoners, etc. These obscenities were brought about by our own lying press and politicians on behalf of our U.S. Masters. (elephant in room).

Joe reilly, Spalding, England

law is the triumph of strategy over logistics
war is the opposite
both enforce the attraction of the other

glenn schaefer, holbrook, us

Civil War

As Britain heads towards civil war as a reslult of mass unemployment and mass immigration, politicians such as David Davis will be well placed.

Question time does not reflect the true feelings of those who live oustside the strange multicultural experiment they call 'London'.

joe, Duns, Berwickshire

I will just say this...
Meaning of democracy - literally means 'power of the people'.
In practice it means a method of decision making by a majority vote.
Ask yourself, do we live in a democratic society? I think not!!!We are being bullied by the governent, the MPs are being bribed! What next?

Helen Parker, Swansea, West Glamorgan

Somerset. They hoover up the farming subsidies and whine about the powers of the state and the EU. Hypocrites, small minded little Englanders. The productive areas of the UK, which need to trade with Europe, would be so happy if only we could get rid of these ungrateful country bumpkins.

Mod, London,

Labour deny the people a referendum on Lisbon because the Tories denied them one on Maastricht.
Your democratic choice is:
"Do you wanted to be ignored by this lot, or ignored by the other lot?"

Barbara, Crewe, UK

Many Irish support the EU common market - but not an EU army or foreign minister. We want to have some control over fishing, agriculture and tax. Baroso lost support for the EU by stupidly claiming the Irish were a tiny minority against the Treaty, when no one else was allowed a referendum.

Tony Sherrard, Waterford, Ireland

The Liberal Democrats abstained from the vote on the lisbon treaty and therefore strengthened the government's position .The Lib.Dems should now honour the name of their party and form a cross party alliance to campaign for a referendum to decide on whether we remain part of the EU.

T,Cole, Kelso, Roxboroughshire

William, you could say something positive about alternative options. Write about those. Is it a free trade agreement, like Canada? Or like Switzerland? Or like Norway, EFTA/EEA? Show you can do research, that politicans seem unable to do. Google: efta and betteroffout

Hugo van Randwyck, London, UK

Better off out!

http://www.betteroffout.co.uk/

maximus otter

maximus otter, Cambridge,

Referendums, by-election stunts, on-line petitions, political blogs: they appear to be democratic, but if they replace our representative democracy they will lead to chaotic government and ultimately the loss of all our freedoms. Extremists, activists and press barons will dictate the agenda.

Bob, London,

If the Irish people are asked to vote again, then please advertise/publish where donations for the NO campaign can be sent. As I for one would like to contribute. I would also like to know where to buy a Irish Flag,

Keith Sloan, Winchester,

leslie woodhall, Eisenborn, said: "Blind nationalism led to two world wars. Have we learned nothing?"

Democratic nation-states have had to rescue Europe twice from such power mad delusions. Have we learned nothing?

Paul Giles, Baku, Azerbaijan

We British are now cowed, apologetic and afraid of our own shadows: EU reprehension lurks around every corner. There is always someone on hand to tell us what we are doing wrong. No one ever hands out plaudits any more. Britain can manage very well without the EU's heavy handedness, thank you.

Marion Lee, Bromley, England

That Ireland is one of the countries to have said not to the new treaty when she has gone out of the age of bronze thanks to the European funds of cohesion, it is to be ungrateful persons.
This is not a matter of democracy and liberty; I wonder how many people have actually read the constitution.

alex, eastbourne, E. Sussex

That Ireland is one of the countries to have said not to the Treaty wheshe has gone out of the age of bronze thanks to the European funds of cohesion, it is to be ungrateful persons.

alex, eastbourne, E. Sussex

Westminster is all for liberty and independence- except for the Scots, the Welsh, and the N. Irish- who they want to control. What difference does it make to these countries whether they are run by uncaring distant bureaucrats in London or in Brussels?

Miss Dee, Tayside, UK

'The Prime Minister has no feeling for these developments in public opinion...'

In effect, our unelected leader has little time for the inconvenience of the democratic process, unless it happens to coincide with his own beliefs and so delivers the 'right' outcome.

m collins, Leeds,

They ask what they can do to address the concerns of Irish voters. Had we had the promised referendum, they would perhaps be addressing our concerns too.

Jamie, Bolton, UK

I appreciate you mention the LD's future in Somerset on the basis of family experience but I think you could also safely say several LD MPs further west also need to distance themselves from the "EU good" all "EU questioning bad" mantra, that is if they wish to retain their seats.

Colin, London,

I would say the British have learned a lot from 2 world wars. Without the British influence Europe would be under the heel of a fascist dictatorship. Now the EU is trying to impose another hated dictatorship on the millions of people in Europe.

jonni k, romsey, england

Andrew, Luxemburg. David Davis' stand is NOT just about 42 days, but about the relentless drive towards a police state. We are sick of spy-chips in bins, council officials prying, even traffic wardens being given rights to access private property. It is the TOTALITY of these measures he is fighting.

Ken Hall, Barrow-in-Furness, UK

Anyone who wants to link the EU more explicitly with the UK's surveillance society could do worse than Google "EU Data Retention Directive", whereby even local councils now have the power - thanks to Brussels - to snoop on your phonecalls.

Michael, Tallaght,

Blair talking about the UK being "at the heart of Europe" was one of the many stupid comments he made. The reality is that Britain's great value to Europe for many centuries going back to Henry VIII is being engaged but apart and thus, we have been able to help mainland Europe. NO to the EU.

John Haynes, Burnham on Sea, Somerset, UK

I oppose the Lisbon Treaty but see the insidious influence of Brussels in our current laws. A skip near my house bears the words: "In accordance with EU regulations, no fridge may be dumped in this skip." A ratified Lisbon Treaty will mark the end of national sovereignty. Please note that, Arthur.

Cadzow, Greater London, UK

The Europeran Convention was chaired, not controlled, by Giscard, "In the Convention, ... the democratic deficit ... was deepened and entrenched". Where is the evidence for this sweeping statement? Blind nationalism led to two world wars. Have we learned nothing?

leslie woodhall, Eisenborn,

Henry94 from Cork suggest flying an Irish flag or having it as a stick. Please can anyone tell me where I can get one? I never thought I would ever look to Ireland for my liberties!

John Hawkins , Totnes, England

Thank goodness for someone in Fleet Street and the Westminster village recognising at last that a majority of the British public support David Davies' actions. All be it, not so much for the 42 issue, but against the Big Brother state we have become under this government.

John Tomlinson, Brentwood, UK

The European issue operates under completely different rules from the rest of British politics. With its call for referenda and its attacks on populism it is unashamedly populist. The chauvinistic fear of giving away power to people not like us underlies this.
http://adammcnestrie.wordpress.com/

Adam McNestrie, Cambridge,

Arthur Paris No one suggests ignoring Europe but a superstate with many languages and cultures all mixing in would be a violent nightmare. No public service could be provided because no planning could be done if the numbers could not be predicted. We already can't deport the dangerous.
EUSSR NO

Neil, Barnstable, UK

Nicholas Keen, Rose Valley, Penna, USA says:
"The Times was the newspaper of appeasement in the 1930s."

A few things have changed during those intervening eighty years Nicholas - or have you been on Mars for a while ?

Alan, London, UK

The EU is a union we should be pleased to belong to.............All this negative droning towards it is unjustified.We cant act like a little kid in the playground,sulking at every issue concerning the EU.Our individuality is retained as are all member countries.......much ado about nothing.

Eric, Southwick, England

There is a paradox in the public support for Davis: in opinion polls the public overwhelmingly backed 42-day detention. So I suspect it is more a question of applauding someone for supposedly taking a principled stand against Labour skulduggery and horse-trading than support for a libertarian issue.

Andrew, Luxembourg,

Shouldn't the various states making up Europe have just as much a reason to be united as those in America - if only to challenge US domination of the world?

Barrie Redfern, Zdole, Slovenia

To ignore the role of Europe in the geo-political environement of the modern world, and the crucial role that we would have in it, is to stick our head in the sand and hope that the world's problems will go away. We would lose nothing of our Britishness, independence or liberty.

Arthur D, Paris,

We in Ireland are going to come under huge pressure now. We need support.

Please fly an Irish flag on your car or sport a sticker or a badge. We hope it will become a way of telling the EU not to bully us and to listen to their own people.

Henry94, Cork, Ireland

Just over sixty years ago we fought a world war against European domination.
Now we are about to submit without even a referendum

Bernard Parke, GUILDFORD, England

I have left the UK, sadly, because of very concern that the Governemnt is becoming abusive and intrusive in its exercise of power. In place of the Soviet Union they now place terrorism on a podium as a reason to breach our liberties, along with tax avoidance and rubbish collection.

Bob Blower, Hong Kong, PRC

I am no fan of the Lisbon Treaty or our politicians' duplicity regarding it and agree that most people in Europe (not just the UK) are reluctant to give ever more powers to EU bureaucrats. So why do almost all elected European leaders favour this stuff? What happens to them when they get elected?

Chris, London,

I agree with DavidB. But then, The Times was the newspaper of appeasement in the 1930s.

Nicholas Keen, Rose Valley, Penna, USA

"[T]he EU is as much a threat to our freedom as the surveillance state". Indeed so. So why doesn't The Times have the bottle to campaign actively and determinedly for us to get out of it?

DavidB, Cheltenham,