Ruth Gledhill, Religion Correspondent
2 for 1 tickets to Casablanca, this coming Monday
Radical proposals to reunite Anglicans with the Roman Catholic Church under the leadership of the Pope are to be published this year, The Times has learnt.
The proposals have been agreed by senior bishops of both churches.
In a 42-page statement prepared by an international commission of both churches, Anglicans and Roman Catholics are urged to explore how they might reunite under the Pope.
The statement, leaked to The Times, is being considered by the Vatican, where Catholic bishops are preparing a formal response.

It comes as the archbishops who lead the 38 provinces of the Anglican Communion meet in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, in an attempt to avoid schism over gay ordination and other liberal doctrines that have taken hold in parts of the Western Church.
The 36 primates at the gathering will be aware that the Pope, while still a cardinal, sent a message of support to the orthodox wing of the Episcopal Church of the US as it struggled to cope with the fallout after the ordination of the gay bishop Gene Robinson.
Were this week’s discussions to lead to a split between liberals and conservatives, many of the former objections in Rome to a reunion with Anglican conservatives would disappear. Many of those Anglicans who object most strongly to gay ordination also oppose the ordination of women priests.
Rome has already shown itself willing to be flexible on the subject of celibacywhen it received dozens of married priests from the Church of England into the Catholic priesthood after they left over the issue of women’s ordination.
There are about 78 million Anglicans, compared with a billion Roman Catholics, worldwide. In England and Wales, the Catholic Church is set to overtake Anglicanism as the predominant Christian denomination for the first time since the Reformation, thanks to immigration from Catholic countries.
As the Anglicans’ squabbles over the fundamentals of Christian doctrine continue — with seven of the conservative primates twice refusing to share Communion with the other Anglican leaders at their meeting in Tanzania — the Church’s credibility is being increasingly undermined in a world that is looking for strong witness from its international religious leaders.
The Anglicans will attempt to resolve their differences today by publishing a new Anglican Covenant, an attempt to provide a doctrinal statement under which they can unite.
But many fear that the divisions have gone too far to be bridged and that, if they cannot even share Communion with each other, there is little hope that they will agree on a statement of common doctrine.
The latest Anglican-Catholic report could hardly come at a more sensitive time. It has been drawn up by the International Anglican-Roman Catholic Commission for Unity and Mission, which is chaired by the Right Rev David Beetge, an Anglican bishop from South Africa, and the Most Rev John Bathersby, the Catholic Archbishop of Brisbane, Australia.
The commission was set up in 2000 by the former Archbishop of Canterbury, Lord Carey of Clifton, and Cardinal Edward Cassidy, then head of the Vatican’s Council for Christian Unity. Its aim was to find a way of moving towards unity through “common life and mission”.
The document leaked to The Times is the commission’s first statement, Growing Together in Unity and Mission. The report acknowledges the “imperfect communion” between the two churches but says that there is enough common ground to make its “call for action” about the Pope and other issues.
In one significant passage the report notes: “The Roman Catholic Church teaches that the ministry of the Bishop of Rome [the Pope] as universal primate is in accordance with Christ’s will for the Church and an essential element of maintaining it in unity and truth.” Anglicans rejected the Bishop of Rome as universal primate in the 16th century. Today, however, some Anglicans are beginning to see the potential value of a ministry of universal primacy, which would be exercised by the Bishop of Rome, as a sign and focus of unity within a reunited Church.
In another paragraph the report goes even further: “We urge Anglicans and Roman Catholics to explore together how the ministry of the Bishop of Rome might be offered and received in order to assist our Communions to grow towards full, ecclesial communion.”
Other recommendations include inviting lay and ordained members of both denominations to attend each other’s synodical and collegial gatherings and conferences. Anglican bishops could be invited to accompany Catholic ones on visits to Rome.
The report adds that special “protocols” should also be drawn up to handle the movement of clergy from one Church to the other. Other proposals include common teaching resources for children in Sunday schools and attendance at each other’s services, pilgrimages and processions.
Anglicans are also urged to begin praying for the Pope during the intercessionary prayers in church services, and Catholics are asked also to pray publicly for the Archbishop of Canterbury.
In today’s Anglican Church, it is unlikely that a majority of parishioners would wish to heal the centuries-old rift and return to Rome.
However, the stance of the Archbishop of Canterbury over the present dispute dividing his Church gives an indication of how priorities could be changing in light of the gospel imperative towards church unity.
Dr Rowan Williams, who as Primate of the Church of England is its “focus for unity”, has in the past supported a liberal interpretation of Scripture on the gay issue. But he has made it clear that church unity must come before provincial autonomy. A logical extension of that, once this crisis is overcome either by agreement or schism, would be to seek reunion with the Church of England's own mother Church.
Grewing up in a muslim country, to school with muslim friends and workers. My mother,were all protestant while dad is budhist. Grew up here and there, learn hinduism 14 years and been over 80 countries,saw Japan , China, India, Middle east, went to school in Europe , Asia, USA, i came to the conclusion that:
1. If we believe in the bible from creation to Habakuk the prophet, we would certainly believe in Jesus.
2. If we believe in the Quran then we would also believe iin Nabi ISA (jesus) and stop there.
3. If we believe in Other christian religion we would also believe in one Jesus.
And JESUS said, " I am love". YOu can only go to God through me. ANd JEsus taught about forgiveness and mercy. Also taught about the kingdom that is divided cannot stand. Once I understood His message of LOVE, I can only say that Catholic is the only religion that is complete and true.
Jesus assigned PEter as his representative, lets OBEY JEsus. For in Obedience there is the greatest freedom.
juyi, san diego, USA
I believe that all christian churches should unite as one (not neccessarily under the Pope and the Roman Catholic Church) to display their unity following the principles of Jesus. A council of twelve with one Chief cousel presiding is what Jesus had - why not do the same again. There is too much hatred in this world against all of christianity and now is the time for christians to put aside their differences and agrre to work together on the principles that Jesus had taught.
John, Lancaster, USA
Why should the anglican clergy wants to unite with the roman catholic church ? do they not know that the roman catholic church is a tyrannical church that had persecuted me for 30 years ? do the anglican church not know that the roman pope since pope john paul II wanted to be globlal emperor-god ? just see how they address their pope as most Holy Father in the church pamphlets some 20 years ago, they even promise to haunt me and chase me to any country that I moved to . At present, I do not have my individual freedom because of the roman catholic cardinals and bishops.' sending its temporal government agencies to bother me, they even bothered the chinese priest that baptized me. I have legally changed my name 3 years ago, and still bother me. Down with roman catholic hierarchy.; they only want to be global ruler.
winston , hacienda hts, ca,, u.s.a.
It is a bit difficult to accept that the Orthodox churches would contemplate surrendering themselves to the See of Rome. After all these years, centuries of hatred and greed on the part of the Roman See, these Orthodox churches dare to bend the knee to the totalitarian Papacy! It' s a bit like George Bush talking about his 'allies' when he drops bombs on Iraq and Afghanistan. We have seen in the Regensberg Lecture where the Pope wants to lead the world.
Is Islam, then, the only hope of resisting the Roman crusaders?
Seamus Breathnach
www.irish-criminology.com
seamus breathnach, Dublin, Ireland
What would Jesus say if he read some of the responses to this page?Probably nothing, his tears would stop him.
roddy cavin, glasgow, uk
Since when Pope Benedict "MAde all Catholic Churches" REturn to the LAtin MAss.
The Motu PRoprio if anybody read it, was for those who wanted to celebrate the MAss in LAtin duh!
Also tho all those CAtholics, look at the Episcopal Church when did they started growing. They are falling apart.
This will be the CAtholic Church twenty years from now if ORthodoxy dies out!
Mark PAtino, KAnsas City, Kansas USA
John Chapter 6
Ben Gareau, Saskatoon, Canada
1) Is justification by faith alone? Jesus said --> "Not everyone who says to me "Lord, Lord", will enter the kingdom of Heaven but only THOSE WHO DO THE WILL of my Father in heaven.' - Matthew 7:21) " also see. James 2:18ff
2) What is Peter's role in the church? Jesus said --> " Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father.
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.
I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.â â (Matthew 16:17-19
The Good Lord is a Good Delegator, He Delegated government in His church to the Disciples and their successors...when will these Protestants stop living by NEGATING sound doctrine while propounding narrowly understood ideas????
Kachi, Lagos, Nigeria,
Jesus Christ did not start the Catholic church. Jesus Christ never started a single church.
shane trammel, keller,
What a fullfilment of Bible prophecy. "...and the whole world wandered after the beast.." ( Revelation 13:3). If possible, the millions of christian martyrs,who were slaughtered by popery, would cry out from their graves.
Just another sign that Jesus is soon to come
Aubrey, Forsyth, Georgia
As a Roman Catholic of more than 65 years standing but, sadly lapsed for the past 40 years I welcome the incentives of the present Pope, Gregory. I could not accept the rulings of Vatican Council 2 and have found solace in recordings of the Mass as it was determined by the Council of Trent. Despite the fact that the service is conducted in English and that I cannot participate in the Communion Service, I have very much enjoyed taking part in a Communion Service at a nearby Anglican church once a month. It is more sincere and more like the old service that I grew up with - I wish that it was more than once a month.
Victor F Webb, Chandler's Ford, United Kingdom
The re-joining of two sibling organizations who had strayed apart because of politics, not doctrinal differences, and whose ethics, belief structures and practices remain similar even today is very appropriate in these troubled times. As a Catholic who married an Anglican, I fully support this reunion. All I can say to our soul-mates of BOTH sides, when this event comes to pass, is: "welcome home, let us rejoice together."
Keith, Los Angeles,
To all who oppose the CAtholic Church with your own opinion, and that is what it is, your opinion. Who started your church and in what year? The Catholic Church was started by Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church put together the Bible (So who better to interpret it). Christ's church has Bishops and priests. If You really are a Bible believing Christain then you will ook up ll the churches mentioned in the Bible. They are ALL CATHOLIC CHURCHES> Do not bash the POPE and the teachings of the Catholic Church with your own opinion and teachings. As scripture says test it! Find out why things are asthe Pope say's they are. You will find he is CORRECT!
Emile Vermette, Warwick, US/RI
Pope Benedict has made it clear that he considers churches without apostolic succession to be nothing more than prayer groups. Many Anglican bishops have valid apostolic succession through the Old Catholic Church and the Order of Corporate Reunion.
Most Anglican priests accepted as clergy by Rome are only reordained sub conditione because of the probable validity of their orders.
As a priest in a Catholic Church not affiliated with Rome, I have mixed feelings about seeing Anglicans unite under the Pope. But Rome has been more than generous in allowing a beautiful Anglican rite to be used by parishes that unite with Rome, one lovers of the 1928 Book of Common Prayer would recognize.
And perhaps unity with Rome would lead the Pope to rethink mandatory celibacy of Western rite priests and bishops, which would be a major step forward in easing the Roman priest shortage.
Father Daniel, Rumford, USA, state of Maine
St. Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyons, disciple of St. Polycarp, ( who was himself a disciple of St. John the Evangelist ) had this to say:'..we point to the tradition of that very great and very ancient and universally known Church which was founded and established at Rome by the two glorious Apostles Peter and Paul; we point, I say to the tradition which this Church has from the apostles, and to her faith proclaimed to men which comes down to our time through the succession of her bishops, and so we put to shame all who assemble in unauthorized meetings. For with this Church, because of its superior authority, all must agree-that is the faithful everywhere-in communion with which Church the tradition of the Apostles has been always preserved by those who are everywhere.'
Christine, wigan,
'Pope says to all non catholics 'You are not a proper church'!'
Does this not make the Pope nothing more than a bigot?
John Brunlees, Northwich, Cheshire
Pope says to all non catholics 'You are not a proper church'!
How insulting, how offensive, how arrogant can you get!
To think most non Catholics like myself have spent years offering the hand of friendship, and praising Catholics (especially the previous Pope) for their strong stand on moral issues, and this is how the Pope decides to respond to this love and friendship. How very sad!
I had my doubts about this Pope when he decided to take the Catholic Church back to the dark ages by stating that all Catholic churches world-wide should return to holding their services in Latin, thus keeping the church and priest in total control and the congregation in the dark. In my personal experience, Catholics friends I know, already have no first hand knowledge of the scriptures or very little as they have received their faith second hand via their priest or church. I suggest they start seeking their faith first hand perhaps by reading the whole of John's Gospel for a start.
Simon Icke, AYLESBURY, UK
Dear Sir/Ma'am
Rather than attack me personally Mr Rice, deal with the facts of Roman Catholic apostasy and heresy.
"Before the Reformation, there was amongst all classes, a conspicuous absence of all knowledge of true Christianity. A gross darkness overspread the land, a darkness that might be felt. Not one in a hundred could have told you as much about the Gospel of Christ, as we could now learn from any intelligent Sunday School child..............To the Reformation, Englishmen owe an English Bible, and liberty for every man to read it. To the Reformation, they owe the knowledge of the way of peace with God, and of the right of every sinner to go straight to Christ by faith, without bishop, priest, or minister standing in his way. To the Reformation, they owe a Scriptural standard of morality and holiness, such as our ancestors never dreamed of. For ever, let us be thankful for these inestimable mercies and refuse to let them go..........."
Bishop J.C.Ryle
Barry Holroyd, Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
As to the gay issue, sexual preference has falsely been made an issue in the Church .
The Bible is clear, with no doubt whatsoever, that homosexuality is an abomination to God ; end of story ; the Bible is , like God, permanent and unchanging .
A person's problem in this regard is between the person and God ..... It should not be an issue , whatsover, between a person and The Church, however .....
Hopefully homosexuals will be able to overcome their sexual / passion propensities in their lives, in this regard, as best they can, with God's help .
Stephen Glass, Toronto, Canada
ill become a catholic the day the rev ian paisley does.never going to happen,most protestant born english people dont go to church,what makes you think they would want to become catholic , we might believe in god and pray,you dont need to go to church to do that,i certainly dont want to be told what i can do or cant do by a foreigner in rome,especially a german one,
i believe in abortion and freedom of choice for women, for example a 14 year irish girl was raped and got pregant,she came to england to have an abortion,and the irish government or church ordered her back,which she did,she had a miscarrage,who are the catholic church to interfere which a personal decision,
as for returning to englands original faith,sorry it wasnt the catholic faith,
So keep your catholic faith and your scandals and lay off the church of england
billy, liverpool, merseyside
I say let the church of England die its slow death. It will happen and its happening as we speak people are coming over to the Catholic Church.
We can't change their minds of the one's that speak terrible things about our Catholic Church so lets just keep accepting with open arms our brothers and sister that want to come back to the True Church.
One more thing that I belive this will happen is that the new prime minister has said that the bishops of the Church of England will be pick by church and not by the state any longer.
Rick, Houston,
I find Barry Holroyd's comment to be wholly inflammatory and backward-looking. The approach suggested within his quote is entirely negative and unhelpful. It also, if he indeed agrees with all the comments made by the Bishop of Liverpool, shocking ignorance of Roman Catholic teaching and total bigotry. If you wish to disagree with something, at least have the common decency to find out what it is you are refuting first. I find it hard to believe that Our Lord would encourage ignorant Bible-thumping. The Catholic Church has 2000 years of rich philosophical and intellectual tradition to draw on - something Anglicans sorely lack. If unity were possible, it would massively benefit both communions. I hope and pray for the reversal of Henry VIII's schism and the return of England to its original faith.
Gavin Rice, Southend-on-Sea, UK
Dear Sir/Ma'am
I can only respond with the words of Bishop JC.Ryle, the first Protestant Bishop of Liverpool (1880-1900)
"Unity without truth is useless. Peace and uniformity are beautiful and valuable: but peace without the Gospelpeace based on a common church government, and not on a common faithis a worthless peace, not deserving of the name. When Rome has repealed the decrees of Trent, and her additions to the Creedwhen Rome has recanted her false and unscriptural doctrineswhen Rome has formally renounced image-worship, Mary-worship, and transubstantiationthen, and not till then, will it be time to talk of reunion with her. Till then there is a gulf between us which cannot be honestly bridged. Till then I call on all Christians to resist to the death this idea of reunion with Rome. Till then let our watchwords be 'No peace with the Roman Catholic Church! No communion with idolaters.' "
To which I can do no other than say, Amen!!
Barry Holroyd, Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
I have always reasoned that a Uniate status could be made for Anglicans as was done for the Ukrainian Catholic Church or Maronite Church. In this manner the canons, The Book of Common Prayer , liturgy and polity of the autonomous provinces of the Anglican Communion could remain intact . At the same time, the Anglican Communion would acknowledge the Bishop of Rome as Patriarch of the Western Church; who is first among equals, the sign and focus of unity of Faith and Order in Christ's One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.
At councils of the Church Anglican bishops would convene along side the Roman bishops in the same way as other Uniate Churches do. The Roman Church has made allowances for distinct culture, polity, liturgy, canons of existing Uniate Churches. There is no reason it cannot do the some for the Anglican Communion. The unity of the Christian Faith is critical at this time in history with the rise of Secularism and militant Islam. Unity is imperative for the Church.
Peter Moll, Tampa, USA / Florida
The primary reason for my leaving the anglican/baptist background I was brought up in was watching a church "Anglicanism" slowly and finally becoming a tool of the leftist socialist agenda. As the primates, priests and laity in the anglican communion started writing God out of their religion and replacing the diety with so-called social agandas when anglicanism started producing "priests & bishops who espoused not only the lack of belief in Jesus Christ as Divine but even a belief in God, when females & homosexuals for all the politically correct neo-marxist reasons were pushed into the forefront of the anglican social agent, most especially in the USA, Canada, and the United kingdom, it was time for me go get the" HELL" out of this secular humanist cult. And folks there are millions of Anglicans with & developing the same mindset. Regarding "Anglicanism" in it's liberal manifestations it is a dying church, but come to think of it, it started with a degenerate Horny henry the 8th.
Johannim, Brea, California U.S.A.
"Religion," nowadays, may no longer represent a personal relationship between God and humanity for seems to have more negative connotations than positive ones.
The need to move into spiritual realms under which all "religions" may become a unified front against diminishing human morals, ethics and values should be the number one priority of a universal church where each and everyone of its members has a clear and profound understanding of his/her fundamental purpose as a Spiritual being beyond that of a human being which I believe was the fundamental tenet taught and shown by example by a man named Jesus, about 2,000 years ago!
We need to tap into our Divinity!
TapintoYourDivinity.com
JC Wandemberg, Las Cruces, NM
This is the first time that I have ever engaged a conversation that has ever been a source of wonder and question to me, especially with English Catholics, "my brothers". I suppose that there shall be eventual union, and it is ever in my prayers; the details shall be marked out among men as it is among men that the Church exists, and as Madison so eloquently put it "... if men were angels then there would be no need for governments..." so as the Church exists among and it is men who must live with each other on this earth then it is among men that those details will be marked out, with Divine guidance and inspiration. Having studied "Holy Torah" I am struck that the story of our faith is ever like the stories that flow all through Torah and follow the same character "loss, punishment, purification and redemption" from Genesis through Ezekiel to Chronicles. I hope to stay ever in contact with this forum; there is ferment and life. God's blessings on all of You.
W.A. "Bill" Bullard, Fall River, Mass.,
The current whirlwind of women priests with boy haircuts and pro-gay ordinations & marriages is disgusting, sickening and totally based on a socio-political agenda.
It is nothing short of insanity. This liberal madness that exists in the ECUSA churches today has gone so far over the edge that, except for the great buildings, music and vestments, the church is almost unrecognizable. It is a further farce that the current and former Arch-bishops of Canterbury are weak men who cater to the whims of pro-gay, pro-women congregations in the US and England and as such, have made a mockery of the glorious church I grew up in. Dr. Rowan refuses to take a firm, absolute and resolute stand. He refuses to rule with an iron fist as the Pope would. Enough meetings. I am sickened when I visit England and see these women on the altar. In the U.S. women and queers. Henry VIII would have them all sent to the tower. God bless the Pope. May Anglicans find strong & decisive leadership. Amen.
Anglican male, Greenville,
The pharisees believed that no man could forgive sins but God, and Jesus refuted them for it Christ clearly tells his disciples that "whosever sins ye forgive they are forgiven them and whosever sins you do not forgive they are not forgiven". James also tells us that a man is justified by works and not by faith only. So therefore the catholic and anglican church due to apostolic succesion hold the keys to the kingdom ordained by christ the one true church.
nowhere in the bible did anyone "accept Jesus into his heart" its just protestant propaganda.
Matt Powell, indianapolis indiana, U.S.A.
Now we know why the boarder is open in the United States and Mexico. The Catholic Church needs more Catholics in the United States to take over by becoming a majority and controlling our politics. Our politicians will not close the boarder! Many of them are Catholic! I wonder what arrangements have been made by the Pop and our president Bush to gain a "moral majority"?
John, Chattanooga, TN
Jesus said "I AM THE WAY,THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE" "NO MAN COMES TO THE FATHER BUT BY ME" Sadley the Catholic Church and the Angelican Church are about works not of Faith. The Book of Romans calls Homosexuality an Abomination. The ones who commit this sin can still get to Heaven but must Repent and come to Jesus Christ, otherwise they are doomed to Hell.
No where in the Holy Bible does it tell us to confess our sins to man or to pray to statues."ALL HAVE SINNED AND COME SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD. " Thats you and me. We all need to come to Jesus for Forgivness and Salavation. For in no other name is Forgivness
hank, Gallatin, United States, Tennessee
Why do the media in Britain always turn to the Catholic Church first for its opinion on any important question of the day?Because the church stands by its teachings.The Anglican Church wishes to become more liberal and is turning away from God.Upon this rock I will build MY church not a church.
roddy cavin, glasgow, south lanarkshire
The real question is why did the protestants leave the "Catholic church" in the first place? It was because many protestants were brutally slaughtered because they refused to "kiss the feet" of the pope. So, they sailed to a new land where they had no king to rule over them nor a pope to tell them how to think and what to believe. The protestants churches uniting under one banner of the Catholic church is prophesied in the book of Revelation. The world will once again wonder after the Catholic church or the beast. The daughters (protestants) of the Catholic church will eventually wonder back home! Now, what about those who still want to remain "true protestants?" Those who enjoy the worship of the God of heaven without interference from man. Will their religious liberties be in jeopardy? God is coming soon! This article is another sign of the fulfillment of bible prophesy. For more information, read "The Great Controversy"
Roger Prince, Elkridge, US, Maryland
I find it presumptious and political for a group of people to decide what their followers will believe. Thye points in this article are not surprising.
I hope that people will read the word of God for themselves, work out their faith with fear and trembling, and discuss but not argue their own findings.
Robert Goodyear, Lethbridge, Alberta
it is really quite simple, the problem with the TEC USA is that there is no point of authority, each bishop or diocese has the authority to change things, hence women priests, gay marriage, whatever they decide the Holy Spirit leads them to -- rahter the devil I would say. Don't like the 10 Commandments, lets vote on one. While the Catholic Church has had its share of less than holy men as bishops, including the Bishop of Rome, none of them have changed the truth that hte Church teaches. JP II said to the woman harrassing him about women priests, "I have no authority to ordain women to the priesthood." He also has no authority to question the resurection, which at least one bishop of TEC, Sprong, openly voiced doubts about without an official rebuke.
dave, falls church, VA
As a protestant, following the development in the Anglican Communion with great interest, I´m a little astonished at reading mr Nagle´s comment. I´d like to make this comment: In devout circles in the past, the question was: Can a priest be saved? Nowadays it seems the question is: Can anyone but the priest be saved? Is e.g. the sacramant of marriage or anointing of the sick necessary for salvation..?
göran, Sweden
göran gerdås, nässjö, sweden
Our Lord prayed so earnestly for Christian unity before His Crucifixion. We need a heart for it also. 'So that the world may believe' ( Jon 17.21)
Father Bryan Storey , Tintagel, UK
I think that women already have something as wonderful as ordination to the priesthood because we can give birth to a living human being, and I also believe that everyone I meet is Eucharist to me and I am Eucharist to them. Does it follow that I gave birth to the Eucharist? A baby, after all, is God's decision that the world should continue. One of a priest's greatest privileges is consecrating the Eucharist. It is also a suffering, as is childbirth. Romero was murdered during Mass. Be at peace. It is not necessary for the Church to change it's position on the impossibility, ever, of women becoming priests. We women are already quite endowed without that added suffering/privilege.
agape and eros to us all, from Martie (P.S.: read Benedict XVI's 2007 Lenten letter on eros and agape)
Martie, Tinton Falls,
If women are not allowed to be ordained in the Roman Catholic Church, then the Seven Sacraments can never be available to half the world's population. Is this what God intended? The only way I can imagine making the sacrament of Holy Orders equally valuable to both sexes is to empower women to celebrate the Eucharist as ordained priests. Perhaps the Roman Catholic Church will follow the way of Protestantism, and hold that only two sacraments - Baptism and Holy Communion - are "essential to salvation." Whatever the case, given the number of exceptionally wise unsung heroines moving through a ravaged world, it is right and just to seriously consider the eligibility of women for the priesthood. If the Vatican rules this out, then the Anglican Church should say: "No deal."
Chad Nagle, Istanbul, Turkey
Truth is not to be compromised for the sake of unity.
chandler, lincolnton, nc
This was a very irresponsible and unprofessional article.
The document did not not put forth any "radical proposals" to reunite the two Churches at all - just some practical suggestions on how to work a bit closer at present and to think about how to proceeed to possible reunion.
And what on earth is "gay ordination"?! I didn't realise that someone could become gay by ordination.
The whole article is sloppily written.
Douglas Martin, Melbourne, Australia
I say "Amen" to what Bill Branham said! Beware the spirit of false unity.
Jonathan Togonon, Antipolo City, Philippines
"8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faithand this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." (Ephesians 2:8-10, New International Version)
Most people have basically the same Bible so look again into God's Word for His truth, not to anyone or anything else but Jesus and His Inspired Holy Bible, The Word of God!
Tim, Huntsville, AL
This is a fulfilment of Biblical prophecy. It is called the binding of the Tares. It is clear that ALL so called christian organisations adulterate the Pure Truth of the Original WORD of God which is Jesus Christ Himself (John 1:1, Hebrews 13:8, Galations 1:8, Revelation 22:17-19).
Gods children never call their parent a Liar - So you may not understand Gods word (ie all Biblical scripture) but you have to believe it - ie say it is true As Jesus commanded. Jesus say: "Come out of her, MY People and be not partakers of her plagues." Rev 18:4
Bill Branham, Jeffersonville, In USA
This is a further example of apostasy in the Church of England / Episcopal Church. They have abandoned the scripture given a rule of faith and practice for the church. The CofE ordains homosexuals and women in direct contradiction to scripture, and now seek to join with the Roman Catholic Church. My protestant brothers, Calvin and Luther abandoned the Romanish church, for its apostasy, abandonment of the scriptures and enthronement of the Bishop of Rome as an anti-Christ. The Romanish church has not repented of their apostasy and the CofE want to add apostasy on top of apostasy and have a large synagogue of Satan. Let the dogs return to the vomit of the past. ...But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
ROBERT MOSBY, richmond va, usa
I would like to correct the person who said that the Catholic Church teaches you have to do good works to be saved. This has already been settled. The Catholic Church has already signed an agreement over this misunderstanding with the Lutheran Church..ofcourse Christ has saved us all. There is an old Catholic tradition that says England lost its Faith under the first Queen Elizabeht and she will regain it under the second Queen Elizabeth. I pray that it comes true
Joan Sheridan, Needham, MA USA
OK, which is it? Faith by works or Grace. If its By works Ill joint the Catholic Church, by Faith ill join the Protesant Church. How can I have it both ways.
Ok another problem i have. Is the body of Christ in a piece of bread and wine, or is communion an act of rememberence, I cant have it both ways I think Ill stick to what my Bible says. There is enough information in there to learn on how to follow Christ for a life time.
David, Belleville,
Well, the archenemy is sure laughing his head off, along with his cronies...
Unity at all costs is no unity, as some have argued above, and Roman Catholicism is not Biblical Christianity. This does not mean that there are no serious and sincere Catholics out there who don't know God for themselves - but the theology of this particular denomination will not stand serious intellectual scrutiny as philosophical concept, never mind theological scrutiny from anyone, scholar or layman, who makes it a priority to read the Bible for themselves from cover to cover in order to have a personal understanding of both a) who God is (inasmuch as our humans minds can comprehend) and b) what His will is for us who would follow Him.
Salvation by works is somewhat closer to Judaism and Islam than Christianity. The concept of salvation by works means that the idea of an actual spiritual existence with an ontological deity is null and void. The Reformation freed the world from a terrible tyranny.
Alexander, Liverpool,
How strange that the first response in this comments suggests that Salvation is still by works. Salvation was acheived by Christ. Accept that and you are saved. Good works will follow but they sure don't buy your Salvation.
There will be no unity under one pope. Thank God that the current pope is the last one. The roman catholic church will soon be finished.
Joe, Darwen, UK
I am not sure which is the funniest - all these American Christian fundamentalist bin Laden lookalikes raving on in the most uncharitable (and thus unchristian) manner, blithely unaware of the self-revelatory ludicrousness of their complete ignorance of the subject matter about which they think they know everything, or their astonishing effrontery to interfere, Ian Paisley-like, in matters that do not concern them.
The Anglican-Roman Commission is discussing relations between the Anglican and Roman Churches. These American religious loonies -and Ian Paisley- are members of neither and should go and examine their own navels instead of somebody else's for a change.
Gerard Mulholland, Paris, France
Salvation by faith alone is a grave protestant error. One must perform works in order to be saved. The Catholic Church teaches things such as charity, forgiveness of others - these things are works by which graces are earned.
Arun, Wanganui,
True Christians follow Christ and Christ alone as made evident in His Word alone. Any deviation from that is false teaching from an apostate religion. I just read in the book of Mark that the Jews in Christ's time lived their lives based on their own ideas and traditions. Woe unto us if we do the same...Christianity is not traditions set up by imperfect men who can as easily fall prey to their own desires as falling asleep at night. Christianity is following the One True Savior...Jesus Christ. Any denomination that follows the tradition of men is not "Christian"...But a religion of their own making. God help us all follow Christ and Christ alone and no man, pope or any other human.
Susie, Los Angeles, USA
The churches should agree to offer each other's members the bread and wine of communion, acknowledging a unity of beginnings and ends underpinning difference - a human, God-given insight.
Benedict Clark, London,
The Roman Catholic Church is not a Christian Church because it teaches a false gospel of salvation by the good works of the sinner. Christians believe that we are saved by God's grace ALONE and that we are declared righteous before God by Faith in Jesus Christ alone. Christ has done all the work necessary for our salvation, already on the cross. We can not add anything to that or else we deny that Christ is Saviour. How can Christians join in unity with Rome even if there are some believers in the pews.
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God" (Ephesians 2:8)
Neil, Liverpool, UK
For those who are hot on the concept of unity - what sort of unity is Christ promoting. Funny how in Matthew 18 Christ gives instructions for excommunication, basically.
What about Paul and all those false teachers? Gee, I wish he just told us to hug and get along.
Sorry for being sarcastic, but things like this just seems so foolish. There can be two main ways to unity between two groups of differing ideologies. The differences can be ignored, and people unite under false pretenses. But since the differences are fundamental, opposing, stances of doctrine, that is unacceptable--and somewhat schizophrenic. The other road to unity involves one side giving ground to concede to truth, then uniting--not under compromise, but under truth.
Eph 4:11-4:14 - We have been given so that we could grow, not be as children, who are "tossed by every wave of teaching". The goal is unity "by faith, and in the knowledge of the Son of God." People split from Catholicism because their teachings on faith (even saving faith, for instance) and the knowledge of the Son of God did not at the very least unite the Bible. Unity on every other point without foundation of theology is at best a sham, at worst futility.
Gordon, Chicago, IL
So the protestant martyrs of the Reformation, like Latimer and Ridley , executed because they opposed unbiblical Catholic teeachings, died for nothing? The Reformation was a mistake? The Vatican (leaving aside its corruption in other spheres) endorses praying to the dead, bowing to statues of Mary, the sinlessness of Mary, and that Mary was co-redeemer with Christ, among other falsehoods. None of these can be found in the Bible, and some are condemned by scripture. And as for the authority of thePope, and popes being in the direct line of Peter ...
Joe, Ipswich, UK
Unity is the will of God. Fighting, accusing, labeling,uncharitableness, narrowness... this leads to the type of divisions and hatreds that afflict the followers of Mohammed. Christ opposes all disunity in Jn.17, and prays that we will be united in Love as He and the Father are One, a perfect communion. This should be the faith and value of evey person who claims to accept Jesus and His Gospel. May all Christians of every denomination and profession seek out this Trinitarian Love for one another, as He loves us! Anything less is not worthy of God.
John, League City, USA
Does anyone understand the prophecies of Daniel and their revealing in the Book of Revelation.
All these are the unfolding of prophecy.
Interested to learn? I can point these out. Check your History. Rome hnever changes. She is working her best to take control again. She will rule again andd come to her end. This time not like in 1798, but as is recorded in Revelation 18: 7-9. We are prety close to see the begining of her rule.
Hilma, Orlando,
Praise God that this is happening.
How will anyone want to become Christian and get to know God's love if all they see is animosity and arguements between denominations.
And won't someone tell Libby Purves to read into the church teaching before making comments she knows nothing about?
The Church teaches that sex is an amazing thing and in its fullness reflects God's love for us and ultimate respect for the human body and soul which is why its is why it stresses it should be kept within the holy sacrament of marriage. Read John Paul II's teaching on the sexual revolution - it seriously is incredible.
Bring on the unity, in whatever form it may take. May it bring more people to know they are loved and not inspire more arguements.
Anna, Brighton,
I'm a young catholic studying in london. i went to an anglican school abd have been a part of many anglican sevices, i go to mass regularly and i believe that unity between the 2 churches is the best thing that could happen. plus it is the right thing
victoria, london, UK
Oh my these corporate mergers are going too far
or is this a take over by the RC church?
So the Royal head of the Anglican church will report to the Pope?
Many great people will roll over in their graves if this happens.
Martin Luther would never allow this.
Gerry H, Burnaby, BC, Canada,
Ebief of Norway - Does your Bible not contain James 2:24? "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified and NOT by faith alone?"
Cynthia, Carleton Place, Canada
Ebief of Norway - I worship Him that Saves each and every day when I recieve Holy Communion. I bvelieve that he is present each and every time in that wonderful sacrament, just as he promised he would be. Oh, and I do this having listened to and meditated upon the scripture readings for the day.
And today, after Mass, I lit a candle for you at the Shrine of Blessed Mary and prayed that, like her, you may learn to be gentle and gracious.
William , London,
Since Vatican II and subsequent watered-down Catholicism anything is possible in the Catholic Church. The hierarchy of Modernism is open for business. They'll just eliminate the sacraments, downplay the Mass, Christ's presence in the Eucharist, Catholic instruction.
Rex, CO,
Once Christians come to realize Original Sin is not taught in scripture it will unravel lots of other false teachings within the Christian churches. Be like the Beareans and study the scritures for yourselves. If unity is all you seek then you will pay a high price. Jesus said, "you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free."
Richard Wittemann, Charlotte, USA
Edward Johnson mentions Fidei Defensor, the title bestowed on Henry VIII by Pope Leo X in October 1521. This was in recognition of Henry's defence of the Roman Catholic faith, not the Christian Faith, in writing the book, "Assertio Septem Sacramentorum" (Defence of the Seven Sacraments), which was an important opposition to the ideas of Martin Luther, in the early stages of the Protestant Reformation.
In 1544, the English Parliament conferred the title "Defender of the Faith" (meaning the Christian Faith, not the Roman Catholic faith), on Edward VI and his successors, who are now the defenders of the established Church, the Anglican faith, not the Christian Faith.
Barry Holroyd, Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
The anti-Catholics on this website seem to be from another planet. Since when did the Catholic Church put tradition over divine revelation. Jesuit "futurism" was never widely adopted by the Church. If we are going to make historical claims, how about we back it up with some evidence?
Amy Richards, Forked River, NJ
Let's get a few things straight. If either the Anglican eccelesial community or the Orthodox Church wished to come back into communion with the See of Peter and be Catholic (the term 'Roman Catholic' if properly used should designate Roman Rite Catholics ) they need to accept the teachings of the Church. From the Assumption to Papal Infallibility, and from the abhorrence of artificial contraception to the evil of induced abortion.
If this is what is proposed, then let us celebrate and rejoice for the schisms have been undone. If not no amount of proclamations from oecumenical bodies with no Church authority will make the slightest bit of difference.
Darren Collins, Oxford, UK
In my opinion it would be helpful if more protestants like myself were to attend a Catholic mass. I suspect they would find the whole experience quite revealing. Catholics do read the bible. Whereas most 'Bible Believing' non conformist churches have only one bible reading in a service the liturgy of the mass includes no less than three. Anglicans in particular would find far more similarities than differences with their eucharistic service.
It would make the churches far stronger if they would unite under one common government. This would be a development which would benefit both the anglican and catholic communions and would undobtedly lead to beneficial changes in both.
P, Swansea, Wales
Dear David Leslie,
I believe that Christ created one church, and i believe that e christians are all in. The union of the churches would be very important to regain the faith of millions of people that have lost fatih not only to the Catholic Church, but to the Christianity as well.
By the way, Defender of the Faith was a title given by the pope to Henry VIII, (Defensor Fidei),
We have to stand united.
Edward Johnson, Newcastle, England
Ebief of Bergen, Norway, where oh where did you learn all those nasty and funny ideas about the Catholic Church. You need to do a course.
Father Bryan Storey , Tintagel, UK
Would this mean that all Anglican communicants would suddenly become RC and this a Roman Catholic instead of Protestant country? Would we lose such benefits as contraception and have to attend Mass on Sunday. What would happen to Protestants in Northern Ireland? What happens to the Queen, as Defender of the Faith (and leader of the Church of England) Have the Bishops, in their infinite wisdom, actually considered anything other than their own very narrow viewpoint, when considering this move?
David Leslie, Perth, Scotland
Can you resurrect two corpses by putting them in the same grave? The appalling theological weakness of both these institutions beggars belief. The CofE was always at best a crypto-Catholic institution ('but halfly reformed') that prized superficial unity above Scriptural fidelity. Conversely, the Catholic communion places human tradition above divine revelation and the right of private judgement of Scripture. Their union is irrelevant to the progress of the Church in the world since a true believer's faith stands in direct individual relationship with God. It seems to me that until these institutions address their inability to engage with the solafidian aspects of the Bible then their respective structures serve no effective purpose. In fact, their continued existence hinders the effective communication of Christian truths to the rest of humanity. Semper reformanda.
JL, Paris, France
Catholics should read and learn the bible and not believe what clergy is telling them. Mary is dead, and not co redemtrix, along with all the aledged saints. Jesus is Lord. "Come out of her my people, and be not partaker of her sins"
-Rev. 18:4
Believe the Gospel, you are saved by faith alone, and do not need any catholic church!
Catholics, please repent. Worship him that saves, not the dead, for it is forbidden by the Lord: Thou shall not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them...[...]
-2nd commandment
I will pray for you
ebief, Bergen, Norway
It would be wonderful to see a reunion between the Roman Catholics and the Church of England. For centuries they have gone their own way, shaping the minds of their adepts differently. But today the planet is too small to stay apart, confronted with bigger and common problems to solve. The smaller sized Methodist Church could gain a lot of strenght by reuniting.
Phil, Paris, France
Dear Ruth, as a Roman Catholic I knew that my Church had accepted married priests from the Church of England. But it is only by ready your magnificent comment that I came to realize this: although the RC Church has taught for generations that couples should not use contraception and that priests should be celibate, this is all rubbish! Those two rules which were supposed to reflect «God's will» have suddenly been put aside: we now have married Roman Catholic priests who use contraception.
Viviane Forest, Montreal, Canada
It is Ash Wednesday and time to call an end to the thread....I am an English RC & I will go to Mass today (although it is not required) and receive the mark of the cross on my forehead.....telling me my time is short and to be about my good works...Still what a thread it has been! Outraged overseas Anglicansthe does their ire increase with their distance from England?overjoyed Catholics, accompanied by some beautiful prayers, infuriated atheists: Sir, I heartedly condemn any union with the CoE and Roman Catholicism. I am an atheist but...followed by assorted charges of Catholic intolerance, ignorance and bigotry (!) But Christ would bless you all & so shall I.... and I would hopenot sure if I should pray--that the passing of time will improve the temper of the atheists!
Mary Shelley, London, England
Jesus prayed hard and long for unity before He died. Catholics are truly Bible Christians.
Father Bryan Storey , Tintagel, UK
It is not surprisng that the Anglican Church along with many other of the mainline denominations should desire to go back to the Church of Rome, as many live in ignorance of the great 16th Reformation and that that it accomplished. Furthermore milions have been seduced by the Jesuit doctrine of "Futurism" which places the "Antichrist" at end of the age, a man of great power to reign during the mythical 7 year great tribulation. Whilst all the time, the antichrist in the form of the papacy has been sitting in comfort in the Vatican. Oh wake up England.
Gadsden, Bexhill, England
We should all thank the Lord that Catholics and Anglicans are at long last speaking together - and working for unification - as all true Christians should. Minor differences should not stand in the way of unity under Christ, the Lord. How many wars have been fought by religious fanatics - on both sides - claiming the "the Lord is on OUR side!"
During the 40 days of Lent this year, let us all pray for peace among all Christian communities; that all Christian denominations show good will and love towards their neighbor so that non-Christians may point to them and remark "See how they love one another"....as was the case in Biblical times!
Oremus pro invicem !
Peter Murphy, MOnte Carlo, MOnaco
Is a hatred of homosexuals and a contempt for women enough commonality?
David Reid, London, England
A check measure should be made in the proposed union to avoid what led to a fallout which led to the reformation. this also good news to the world church. Forces of evil are uniting against good and its time the church ccame together for good
Kamau, Nairobi, Kenya
The Bible says be ye separate and come out from among them. It is wrong for any bible believing church or denomination to align themselves with the apostate Catholic church.
Kevin Walters, Henderson, USA Ky.
i believe that division of churches was a thing of men ,selfish ones , lets pray we all gather in the same table praising the Lord.
im catholic and i love the idea of ecumenism , i think its time to all Christian Churches to return home , i mean Roman Catholic Church, the first of all christian churches , the root where they ve learnt about Jesus .
God Bless you all .
Maria Alicia, parana, Argentina
Christians who are true to Christ see no barriers of denomination. It is about time we pledge allegiance to Christ and not to our rituals and preferences!! This is good news!!
Scott, England,
There is a magnificent history of difference in the Anglican church, which has roots as a seperate entity going far back before Henry VIII. For me it is essential that the church in which I worship has the face and voice of my cutlure, which is English. Substantial doctrinal differences remain and more importantly, to me at least, there are differences of style and emphasis whcih are unique in the the Chruch of England - especially the idea that there is no human ulitmate authority (such as the Pope) thus making the C of E so much more flexible and real. By acknowledging the limits of human understanding of God's will, the Church of England is so much closer to Christ that the Roman church. The day they unite under the Pope is the day I leave the Church
peter edwards, calgary, alberta
The Church is the Bride, not the Harem, of Christ. Unity between Christians does not have to mean the extinction of certain Christian traditions. How decorated ones altars are or whether you pray to the saints or not are just icing on the cake. The Gospel of the Crucified Messiah, Jesus, is what makes us into Brothers and Sisters. I hope both Anglican and Roman Catholic Christians can come together in such a way that invites more and more Christian assemblies into Fellowship, One Body, One Bride, One Banquet with One God!
Laura , Boston, USA
I grew up in the Irish Republic where Church of Ireland and Roman Catholics hardly speak to each other. Cof I thinks it's superior ro RC and for years controlled the ecomony. Can't imagine the two uniting under the Pope in S Ireland and it would cause blood and guts in NI. Some Cof I people think the Pope is the anti-Christ, which is ridiculas, although out present Pope was formally a member of the anti-Christ's youth and the anti-Christ himself was aso Catholic - although there were and are some terrible Protestants too: Cromwell/Paisley - but where do you leave the Spanish Inquisition? Best leave well enough alone in the circumstances: these two could never unite. Each think the other wrong - but both are wrong and Hinduism is right. At the end of the day I believe in reincarnation despite the fact that I do go to church most Sundays.
Nerys Swan, Pembroke Dock, Wales
What many seem to be missing here is the fact that such a union would not necessarily mean that the Anglicans become Catholics. It would simply mean that the Anglican Church would be in communion with the Holy See, essentialy recognizing the same theological principles. The Anglican Church could still remain a separate entity and its property would not be handed over to the Vatican. The primary impact would be in recognizing the authority of the Pope in theological matters. The Byzantine, Armenian and Ukrainia Catholic Churches are all Churches that have retained their unique identities while being in full union with the Holy See.
Jim, Ohio, USA
Has nobody read "Dominus Iesus" ? What about fundamental issues of belief, such as Transubstantiation, Virgin Birth etc, to say notihing about Roman Catholic doctrine on birth control etc.
The Roman Catholic Church is an intolerant prescriptive church with no time for any individual christian wishing to find his own way to God - vs the present Pope's views on "relativism". It would be ironic if under the most intolerant, narrow minded Pope for decades (out of a pretty bad lot !) the Anglican church should surrender its independence.
Long live the 39 Articles: "...the Bishop of Rome has no jurisdiction in this realm of England..." Long may it so remain.
A somewhat lapsed anglican living in France.
David Dunn, 19500 Ligneyrac, France
I am a Roman Catholic from Málaga (Spain). I am very happy that the reunification arrive. Here, in Málaga and in all the Costa del Sol, there are many Anglicans living with us. The Diocese of Málaga permits Anglicans to celebrate their services in our Catholic parishes, as a sign of our common vocation. We have no problems to do that, and Anglicans have no problems either. In fact, they celebrate their annual meetings of the Anglican Diocese in Europe, -the synod of Gibraltar- in our Catholic Seminary chappel, and there is no problem at all.
Anglicans and Roman Catholics have no serious problems to meet together and to look for solutions to our historical divisions.
So, I realize that there are no so many problems for the unification, and I really believe that we need unity in our world to spread the Gospel. If we are divided, it is a real problem. I will be very happy when Anglicans and Roman Catholics be united, following Christ's words.
Reunification does not mean that Anglicans become Roman Catholics. It does mean that we, both Anglicans and Roman Catholics, be called just CATHOLICS. We need it. We need to be one Church. And we can achieve it with God's grace.
Javier G., Málaga, Spain
In some respects, this article reads like a merger proposal or a take-over at the suggestion of controlling 2 controlling stock-holders. But this is not GM & Chrysler. The smaller church is the historical Yugo but the end result makes both churches look like 'winners'.....Christianity, for some, would mean no more tresspassing (wars) and no more imperialism (financial dominion) but more fellowship and peace-seekers. Blessed are the peace-seekers and this is not missles but the return of the missal prayer-book.
Donna Smith, Delaware, USA
The Anglican Archbishops concerned seem to have overlooked the fact that the most dynamic part of their own church is evangelical. Evangelical Christians generally have some big issues with Roman Catholic doctine that are nothing to do with sexuality or women priests. What about the role of the mass, transubstantiation, Papal infailibility, the 'worship' of Mary, the very notion of the church as the church as the arbiter of what is true and what isn't rather than the bible etc, etc.? I suspect that if the Anglican Church were to proceed with such a union many of their congregations would leave.
Andy, Derby, UK
This very event was prophesied over 100 years ago, which at that time seemed an absolute impossibility! In fact, the author was decried as a heretic by Protestants. For those who want to know the future as given by God's inspiration, read Ellen G. White's book The Great Controversy. Judge for yourself. There is more to come, as you will read...
Kris, Boise, USA
The formation of the Anglican church was a 'divorce' from the Catholic church. The reasons were 'sour grapes' or hard feelings or personal individual feelings of Henry VIII in order to keep his power base while keeping 'a faith'...He was more of a "Henry-ite" than an Anglican. He wanted it HIS way. Now, nobody cares about Henry VIII or his wishes,desires,hopes & dreams but historically it is interesting to examine him. When I see someone wanting it this way, they become followers of "themselves" it is a kind of self-worship with allegiance to no one but themself.
Donna Smith, Delaware, USA
Wow. So many people who know so much... but how do they know it? How do we know that so many self erected viewpoints are the correct ones?
The one person who actually used the Bible (this would be the truth that the church is the pillar and foundation of) got the quote wrong. Its 1st Timothy 3:15, not 2nd.
So how does one follow Christ? Do the follow a man-invented Christ? Or the Christ of the New Testament? And then, do you only pick and choose the parts of the New Testament that you like?
What about the Christians who hate Jews yet claim to follow Christ? Why isn't their version correct?
Does it get made up as you go along? And *WHO INDEED* gets to make it up?
J Clark, New York City,
It was commented once that the Church of England was the bastard daughter of the Church of Rome. This has been proven to be "prophectically" true. It indicates the further decay and rejection of true biblical religion as revealed in the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments alone. Again we see not only the departure from the faith but also a purifying of the true church of God. It is best to be small that to join ranks with Jeroboam, the son of Nebat, who caused Israel to sin. May God bring another reformation and that the truth of justification by faith alone may once be proclaimed upon the shores of the United Kingdom
william, Omagh, United Kingdom
Susan Parkinson seems to forget the agony in the garden, and the submission by Christ that he would do His Father's will and be crucified. He later spoke of Peter as the keeper of the keys to the gates of Heaven:
If Susan ever gets there, I suppose she will say that it is her mission to enter Heaven even if not allowed.
As ever - Christianity a la carte to suit oneself and to hell with the rest! If all one believes is in one's self, then I am surprised that some people ever lower themselves to be taught at University or wherever to contaminate their omnisapience.
R L Chapman, Lowestoft, England
First it should be important to have Vince from Glasgow understand that marriage and sexuality are fundamental issues for Christianity because they are intimately tied in to the Christian understanding of creation, the image of God, and the order of human life.
Second, Susan from Maidstone needs to recall that Jesus never made it up as he went along but always and everywhere stated that he was doing the will of God. In turn Jesus told his followers always and everywhere that they needed to leave themselves behind, seek first the Kingdom of God, and in denying themselves find true life.
John Chagnon, St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
Reply to Susan Parkinson from the UK:
The Catholic Church no longer tells anyone "What to think" as you put it. The Pope does define doctrine and occasionally gives encyclicals regarding matters of faith and morals but these speeches have a historical accuracy and do not stray from prior beliefs. As an Anglican, surely you see the similarity of Creeds of both faiths. These 2 faiths have more in common than in difference. "What to think" can mean anything from what will I wear today to what dvd will I rent? Even films are no longer banned or forbidden. The Catholic Church originated the theory of "free will", didn't they teach you that in your education? Free will is about choice. God does not force his will upon mankind. The Catholic Church has promoted Democracy in the modern world. That is Democracy with a capital "D" not a small "d", which would sublimate an entire kingdom to the concept of a monarchy which is democracy with a small "d" & not even a Constitution.
Donna Smith, Delaware, USA
Jack Howell. It's really helpful being in touch with Mary and the Saints. I can recomend it.
Father Bryan Storey , Tintagel, UK
God is listening my prayers... This news are so good, but I fear that nothing will happens, unfortunatelly. I'm a brazilian Roman Catholic who loves Europe and who loves British people, culture and history. The atheism of nowadays permit things like the growing of islamic voices in UK... Things like not to celebrate Christmas "to avoid insult the others faiths..." Could you imagine it in the 1930's or 1940's England? Or Islamic countries avoiding celebrations to not "insult Christians"? The re-union of Church of England with Rome couldn't come in better times...
Marco , São Paulo, Brazil
I believe that there is great virtue in having separate churches with separate traditions. Whilst I am a practising Catholic, there are members of my family and friends, who are Anglican and they get a great deal out of their faith and I am not sure they would feel entirely comfortable within my church. There are still substantial doctrinal differences, although I believe that we are all really united by our love of Christ. As long as there is no rancour between the churches (and its believers), I rather like the idea of people finding God within their own respective traditions, whilst of course praying all the time for people of all other denominations.
Jonathan, London, England
As the Catholic partener in a mixed marriage, I believe that this issue has to be approached with the greatest understanding and mutual respect.
Modern technology has given us a system of instant world-wide communications, which has made it possible for us all to understand each other better. Moreover the defeat of fascism in WWII has made the modern Catholic Church very wary about the tools of imperial administration which were inherited from secular government in the past, and the modern Church is very different from the one that existed before Vatican II.
The time has come for dialogue among equals in all the different communities of the Christian Faith. We have the communicative tools provided by modern technology, and the historical opportunity provided by world peace among all those who are involved.
Edmund Burke, Kingston upon Thames, England
I am an American with a PhD from an elite institution, and I care. So leave your nasty stereotypes out of this, please, Mr. Cheverall. Somehow you obviously care too, since you bothered to post here.
More importantly, however, I think union with Rome is a terrible idea, as is the notion of chasing some myth called Christian unity. The reason Christianity continues to flourish in the US and has died out in much of Europe has nothing to do with flawed American education. It has to do with the First Amendment and the subsequent disestablishment of religion. The monopoly churches of Europe failed their parishoners, and so reasonable people left. In the free market religious environment of the US, people for 200 years have been able to find a church that meets their needs. And thus Christianity thrives in America.
The best thing that ever happened to the gospel was Christian disunity. May it continue!
Dave Johnson, Chicago, Illinois, USA
Susan, Catholics believe in thinking like Jesus. Isn't that good?
Father Bryan Storey , Tintagel, UK
Combining the Anglicans and RCs would definitely enhance the Pope's cv. He'll be all for it! Oh, and what about the assets of the Anglican Church?
Good move for the Vatican!
Maxadolf, Epsom, Surrey
How does all this affect the Government of the
United Kingdom, since some Bishops sit in the House of Lords ?
The CofE also own and administer vast properties, which would otherwise have been ceded to the Crown. What are the outworkings of this?
Jack Howell, Cambridge,
I think it doubtful that unity of any kind can be imposed from above, or by 2 different hierarchies joining their leadership teams in any formal way. We should be working for a greater understanding and dialogue, not in a vacuum but by jointly working on representing and working for Christ in our local communities. Once we are able to co-operate on such projects as offering healing and teaching, working with the disenfranchised and for justice and peace, then perhaps a new structure might arise and be helpful. Until then I feel it more likely to be a distraction, or more harmfully bringing into the spotlight factors which show how divided we currently are.
Fiona Gibbon, Purley, UK
I think this is disgraceful journalism. A visit to the anglican communion website is necessary to discover the truth behind this article. I think The Times should apologise for misrepresentation.
Until hearing of this article, I had always considered The Times a quality daily newspaper. Now I am not so sure.
Disappointed Reader, Aberdeen, United Kingdom
This is the most ridiculous idea I have heard of for some time. Have events in Ireland and Glasgow over the past 100 or so years not demostrated that this idea will not work. Its no wonder fewer people are going to church now when the ideas being thrust on them bear no resemblence to their beliefs. If not properly checked it'll lead to a schisam in both Catholic and Anglican Churches with an extremest wing developing. In some ways the Conservative Party is also heading in this dangerous direction.
Tim, London, UK
There is only one Church of Jesus Christ. Denominations are not from God and have weakened the impact of the Church in our communities. I pray that all the pastors in each community around the world will start having Christian Fellowship with each other to display and encourage the unity that our heavenly Father desires for his Church.
For HIS Glory,
Ben Wardlaw, Hilton Head Island, USA / South Carolina
People need to remember the main reason why the church of england split from the vatican & pope. It was simply because Henry VIII didnt get his divorce approved by the Pope, so decided to break away from the Vatican so he could become leader of the church of england. So in effect the split came about because of non religous beliefs and is currently headed by someone with no link to the succession of christ or st peter (leader of the church). I expect that the reason some anglicans dont wish to reunite is simply because they wish to be part of a more relaxed religon which the church of england currently offers them. As a roman catholic i dont think that this will work, simply because the Anglican church is so much more relaxed then the catholic one. It would be nice if it did happen though.
Harry, Worcester, England
What has been considered regarding the worship of Mary and the Saints ?
Jack Howell, Cambridge,
What is needed is for the Catholic Church to recognise that it is the breakaway church and that our current disunity as Christians is ultimately down to its historic actions and attitudes. If Anglicans are looking to return to their Mother church/'home', they should prayerfully consider the Orthodox Church, which is the original unified church from which, the Catholic's in their arrogance, broke away. Better still, let us throw all the religious tripe into the bin and focus on the one who who is so misunderstood by those who promote religion, our Lord Jesus Christ. He modelled love, mercy, power and a simplicity of approach that makes religion look foolish. It's what man has created that divides us.
James Hall, Worcester, UK
will the Queen become the Head of the Catholic Church in the new reorganisation?
rodney meere, redditch, worcs
The biggest problem facing the Church of England is its refusal to teach, and to live by the Scriptures, rather than being as least controversial as possible. The Bible is very clear on the whole gay question, as it is on other issues such as the Sabbath. As both a Messianic Jew and a theology graduate, I see the established church doing much the same as we do with the Talmudic Writings - too often the clear word of Scripture loses out.
Michael Cunningham, Sittingbourne, England
The article makes a quite extraordinary statement about "Anglicans' squabbles over the fundamentals of Christian doctrine". What fundamentals? The nature of the atonement, perhaps, or the real presence, well maybe, but the blessing of same sex couples, fundamental? How absurd.
I have had the good fortune to attend services in a number of Episcopal churches in the USA. They have been welcoming and inclusive, the standard of worship has been high and the preaching exceptional. When the schism comes I shall be applying for alternative episcopal oversight from the American liberals, who seem to me to be attempting to follow Christ rather than obsessing about sex and shunning their brothers and sisters.
Oh and James from Wellington, you have no idea how close you are to the Romans. You are absolutely convinced that you and you alone are in possesion of the truth.
Vince, Glasgow, UK
It makes sense, since both faiths adhere to the main principles of the Nicean council and believe in 'one holy Catholic and apostolic church'. The Anglican church clearly has need for a stronger central authority to keep local ministries from deviating from proper doctrine and making political stands on the pulpit.
Chris Smith, South Burlington, VT, USA
Answering to Susan, nowadays in the Catholic Church there is a dangerous free-thinking. I mean that teologist are very careful about saying unconfortable stuff and sometimes they are prohibit to teach and so on. So the situation is terrible, yes, but teologist are being very brave.
Think on the other direction. If Anglicans and Catholics get united, his issue you are mentionet out will be more central, and may be we will have a bias toward improve the current situation.
After all, we are all together. I can mean a personal sacriface of you, but also a service to a wider church. I ask you for help.
Hector Palacios, Barecelona, Spain
It has always been a fact for England that from the time St. Augustine had been sent by Pope Gregory the Great to this land to begin formal Christianization of the Angles, the Christian patrimony has always been that of the west. There is no equivocality on that. History will always attest to that. So if the Anglicans would somehow view Rome as encroaching into their religion, I think, it would be enough for them to think that whatever link England holds to the Apostles, it has always been through Catholicism via the zealous monks sent by the Roman Church.
So to bridge back to the Mother of particular churches is like coming back home for Anglicans. They need to drink from the fount of truth that springs from "the foundation and pillar of truth" (2 Timothy) in a world set confused by the dizzying claims of truth. To salvage what still remains in the the word Christianity is at least and basically to reflect how the Church of Rome stood firm in the seven Ecumenical Councils.
Wilson Villalongja, Dumaguete , Philippines
The idea of Christian unity is laudable. What is there that really divides Catholics from Protestant but the insular English mentality which, though not always wrong (who IS always wrong?) led to the great Anglican-Catholic divide. Rome was not always in the right (WHO is always in the right?) and was probably swayed by its debt to the Spanish ultra Catholic throne to put down royal English claims. So: while Henry VIII was very probably right in his relations with the Pope of his day, should that issue continue to divide Christians between Catholics and Anglicans? Henry VIII was deeply concerned about his Tudor legacy; that is understandable. But should it continue to influence the faith TODAY?
Frans Sammut, Zebbug, Malta
Isnt it interesing that all of those who have commented on this story published in a British newspaper all but two reside outside the UK.
The fact of the matter is the vast majority of educated people in this country dont care whether Anglicans and Catholics re-unite, unite or decide to worship the man on the moon. Its an irrelevance, as we as a race progress religion will become more and more of an irrelevance and the only people left who stil believe in the superstition will be Americans who have been indoctrinated by their flawed education system.
Basically my point is : why are national newspapers publishing stories like this? We dont care. Leave it to the specialist fringe newspapers please
Greg Cheverall, London, UK
If our true and ultimate aim is Christian unity, then Anglicans and Roman Catholics would do well, sooner rather than later, to have a three way dialogue with the Eastern Orthodox. The Orthodox presence and involvement would shift the focus on to the faith as proclaimed and lived in the undivided Church of the first millenium. And of course, there would also have to be an openess to engage with those interested among the leadership of Reformed/Evangelical Churches.
Leon Carberry, Beckenham, England
The Anglican Church has serious problems at the moment, with bishops refusing to have communion with each other. Each provience seems to make up its own rules and do not really take advice from Canterbury. If the situation continues, the Anglican Church will collapse.
It would make sense to unite with Rome but I can never see that happening. The most we can wish for is the establishment of good relationships between the two Churches.
Lenny, Cork, Republic of Ireland
"that they may be one"
David Ulmer, Wilmington, OH, USA
I am an Anglican doing a post-graduate degree at a Roman Catholic College but I would never become an RC because I don't want to be told what to think. Jesus followed his own conscience and vocation. Respect for the individual who imitates Jesus in this way is of the essence of Christianity.
Susan Parkinson, Maidstone, UK
Intriguing isn't it, that the higher up the hierarchy one goes, the less people are allowed to join the club?
In the church I attend, it is irrelevant whether one is Gay, Straight, Catholic, Anglican, English, African, even Christian (sometimes), as long as you join us for fellowship and peace. I always understood the nature of Christianity to be "We'll have *anybody*!"
Jennifer Chambers, Bradford, England
If they do unite under the Pope I wonder what will happen to the vast capital assets accrued by the various Anglican sects over the years?
Who will own the Churches , largely built from the proceeds of taxes and contributions levied in various forms over the centuries , from worshippers whose allegiance was certainly not to Rome.
Perhaps they should be sold off and the proceeds distributed back amongst the poor and the rest of the populace.
Wouldn't that be the Christian thing to do?
I feel sure the Catholic Church has enough funds of its own to support its new flock.
Rob Green, Braintree, England
What a great testimony it would be to the efficacious power of prayer to see Anglicans and Catholics united under the Pope.
Eamonn Keane, Sydney, Australia
It is truly sad to see some Christians always digging in the past. Pope John Paul has acknowledged the errors of the past, so why always bringing them back? True disciples of Christ forgive as He did. Go and sin no more, he said. If He forgave, who are we to reject his ultimate prayer: That all his disciples be one...
Gilbert, Montreal, Canada/Quebec
Cardinal John Henry Newman spoke for thousands of us who having come to Catholicism are simply astonished how much we were affected by anti Catholic misunderstandings of our wonderful Faith. We need a strong listening to the Holy Spirit to clear up the human mess.
Father Bryan Storey , Tintagel, UK
In 1555, Bishops Hugh Latimer and Nicholas Ridley were burned at the stake for their protestant faith. Latimer's words are worthy of repetition in the light of this article:
"Be of good comfort, Master Ridley, and play the man; we shall this day light such a candle, by God's grace, in England, as I trust shall never be put out."
I would echo his prayer today!
Dr William Holmes, Enniskillen, Northern Ireland
Good heavens above!
The Anglican leaders are not satisfied with embracing homosexual heresy, but now they want to ride the beast along with the same organisation that has killed more True Christians than any other organisation in History.
What was the Reformation all about? Why did the fathers of true biblical Christianity rather burn than embrace wrong Catholic beliefs, and now unity? No way! No unity before Biblical truth thanks very much.
My advice to Anglicans: Please do not follow this unbiblical religion to the grave, find yourself a group of believers that cares more about truth and worshipping God than siding up to the world.
A little bit of research into the role of the catholic church in the end times will be enough to warn any sincere seeker to stay well away from the Catholic church.
James, Wellington, New Zealand
Welcome to our separated brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus. We have waited a long time to unite in one Body. I hope I live to see the day that the Anglicans return to the one flock.
M, Carmichael, CA USA
As one non-Catholic leader pointed out, Christians ask the living to pray for them; so asking those who have died to pray for them is hardly that different. He said churches could tolerate their different emphases on this subject. Fr. John McKenzie, S.J., once cautioned that Christians must be wary of WANTING to be separate and multiplying reasons for being separate unnecessarily.
Richard L.A. Schaefer, Dubuque, USA
Unity is the sharing of the biblically-based faith that salvation is by grace, not by works, through the actual death and resurrection of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. As it is written, we cannot be saved by anything else, nor is their any mediator between God and man but Jesus. Believers in the Holy Writ are called saints and the royal priesthood, with Jesus being our High Priest. All praise and all glory to God our Father in the name of His Son, Christ Jesus.
Ruth, St. Pete Beach, USA/Florida
It looks to me as if the conservatives are hoping that reuniting the Christian churches will bring the liberals back into line. I wonder how they would feel if there were a liberal pope rather than a conservative one. The acceptance of married clergy on the part of the pope was a tactical maneuvre rather than a change of heart. What is really needed is an open-minded acceptance that there are different was to be a Christian and they can all be based on reading of scripture. What is most important is faith and love. From my side the liberals seem to be willing to live this way but the conservatives don't.
I really don't think any sort of union of churches will do anything except make the people who can't or won't conform either go underground or leave. What is really needed is a sort of increasing mutual tolerance based on commonalities, and then we can talk about reuniting the churches,
Christopher Hobe Morrison, Middletown, NY, USA
There is a fundamental divide in our modern world between Christians who believe that Christianity must conform itself to ideas of the current age in morality, doctrine etc. and Christians who believe that there must be historical continuity with Christ, the Apostles, and the Church of past ages. Representing the first view, Episcopal Bishop Jon Spong put it thus: Christianity must change or die. Interesting isn't it that he lost over half of the members of his diocese because of his attempts to modernize Christianity? I