Ruth Gledhill, Religion Correspondent
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Bishops of the Church of England are being urged by their flock to turn out en masse on Wednesday for the Lords debate on equal rights for gay couples wishing to adopt.
In an open letter sent to all the diocesan bishops of the Church, more than one fifth of the lay members of the General Synod urge the 26 bishops in the Lords to help to overturn the Sexual Orientation Regulations at its final vote.
Many peers and MPs from across all parties are unhappy with the way the changes to adoption law have been processed through Parliament. Hundreds of Christians are expected to turn up for a peaceful protest vigil outside Parliament on Wednesday during the debate.
The Roman Catholic Church has led the campaign against the regulations, which could put its adoption agencies out of business because it would flout Catholic teaching for them to accept public funding to facilitate gay adoption.
Protesters also fear the regulations will compromise the teaching programmes in faith schools, which will not be exempt. They are warning of “substantial danger” that it will be illegal under the regulations for faith schools to continue to teach that sex outside marriage is wrong.
If the bishops are successful in persuading the Lords to defeat the regulations, it is certain to fuel the Government’s determination to press for a 100 per cent elected chamber.
If bishops were included, it would be with a nominal role only, without voting rights.
The former Archbishop of Canterbury, Lord Carey, told The Times that if the Lords reforms went ahead on this basis, the Church of England should press for disestablishment.
In their letter, more than 40 members of the General Synod quote the present Archbishop, Dr Rowan Williams, as saying: “We in the UK do not have anything like this history of top-down rule by regulation.
“We have in practice taken for granted that the State is not the source of morality and legitimacy but a system that brokers, mediates and attempts to coordinate the moral resources of those specific communities, the merely local and the credal or issue-focused, which actually make up the national unit.
“This is a ‘secular’ system in the sense that it does not impose legal and civil disabilities on any one religious body; but it is not secular in the sense of giving some kind of privilege to a nonreligious or antireligious set of commitments or policies. Moving towards the latter would change our political culture more radically than we imagine.”
The lay members continue: “Given the great significance of this vote, many people would understand that the responsibility that Bishops undertake as members of the House of Lords requires them on such occasions to vary their crowded timetable in order to attend the debate.
“Many Christians will be praying outside Parliament at the same time, giving up other activities that could rightly claim their attention.
“We also note the spirited defence made last week of the role of the Bishops in the House of Lords by the Archbishop of York and the Bishop of Chelmsford. Important substance would be given to their words if all the Bishops in the Lords were to attend to vote.”The regulations were dealt with last week by a House of Commons committee of 16 MPs, which met for 90 minutes. Christian protesters are complaining that even the MPs on the committee itself had been appointed just 15 hours before it met and the room arranged for the debate was so small that there was not enough room for all the MPs.
Observers present reported that the meeting started in confusion and that only four MPs were allowed to speak on the regulations before the vote was passed in favour. Eleanor Laing, the Tory MP, supported the Regulations and said that “her brand of Christianity” preached “live and let live”.
On Wednesday Baroness Andrews will move that the draft regulations be approved.
The aim of the regulations is to outlaw discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation in relation to providing goods, services, facilities, premises, education and public functions.
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"People who need to rely on the law as a crutch to prop up a philosophy or lifestyle that can't stand up on its own two feet have a bankrupt set of values."
Sexual orientation is neither a philosophy nor a lifestyle.
It is not in the public interest to support individuals who wish to discriminate against a group of individuals on the basis of arbitrary and inconsequential distinctions, especially when the group in question has been the subject of undisguised institutional and legal discrimination for centuries. It is not so many decades since private homosexual activities between consenting adults were illegal, and precious few years since equalisation of the age of consent and adoption rights. Committed couples still cannot get married in the eyes of the law; instead, they need to resort to a legal construct which intentionally excludes them from integrating the contract into a religious ceremony.
I pray that we will remain vigilant in protecting our gay brothers and sisters.
Jordan Gray, Coventry, England
People who need to rely on the law as a crutch to prop up a philosophy or lifestyle that can't stand up on its own two feet have a bankrupt set of values. For, if it is impossible to win the acceptance and respect of fellow citizens without using the law, it will be even more impossible to win respect when those same citizens find themselves being punished for something that has been imposed upon them.
To impose your will on others via the strong arm of the law is a clear demonstration of the weakness of your philosophy.
Christians have no need of the law to get people to accept and love them for their beliefs. They have Christ who loves them passionately.
What does the world have? Nihilism.
Mark Golding, Birmingham,
21 March 2007 is a very sad day for our nation. I reckon that we will look back on this day as a watershed moment in our history. For the first time ever, many like me are being told that we are not allowed to be orthodox bible-believing Christians. That is truly sinister. I just hope and pray that the secular fundamentalists who are behind this move will apologise for the harm they have done if (in 50 years time), they come to realize that this legislation has been a disaster not only for vulnerable children but for homosexual people as well.
Simon Ogbourn, St. Albans, UK
The government is slowly "salami slicing" away the rights of Christians to live according to their faith in this country. In the names of "tolerance" and "equality" the SORs will give the gay community the right to sue for "violation of dignity". So, before they come into force in England, let me make use of what is left of my freedom of speech. As a Christian, I welcome anyone of any sexual orientation to our church and at the same time express my view that the Bible clearly teaches that sex outside of heterosexual marriage is wrong. I will not join in any activity that promotes homosexual partnerships as equivalent to marriage, so I feel especially sorry for Christian teachers who will be expected to do just that. That may offend some people; blasphemy offends me. Others may mock my faith, but I do not seek a law to allow me to sue for violation of dignity.
I hope and pray that the House of Lords will reject the SORs tonight
Ray Douglas, Loudwater, Bucks
This law is the gateway for greater injustices to the very institution that has fought for peace, love and justice to be established in the constitution and laws of this country for centuries. This is the year to celebrate the 200th anniversary of the abolition of slavery. It was Christians in this country that pioneered the British involvement in this movement and made petitions in the very same manner that is being done now, in order to remove a grave injustice. As Christians we need to be more like Wilberforces of this day, persevering in our campaigns and petitions to see this country restored to God's Kingdom purposes, faith working through love and compassion. The wealthy slave owners felt they were being persecuted by the movement and had a lot to lose. In reality God's hand was at work to answer the prayers of His people. God still answers the prayers of His people and I have seen many homosexuals set free into normal heterosexual lives. Is this still a legal statement?
YE, Horsham, West Sussex
The SORs contravene Article 9 of the European Convention on Human Rights which give us all the absolute right to freedom of conscience. It is true that 'Freedom to manifest one's religion' is not absolute under the ECHR, but freedom of conscience - which means no one can be procecuted for refusing to do something they consider wrong - is without qualification.
Des Byrne, Aberdeen, Scotland
What I would like to see printed in 6 foot high letters and plastered all around that exorbitantly, subsidised, exclusive club by the river, are the immortal words first purportedly spoken by the late Thomas Jefferson...
"What is Morally Wrong can never be politically right".
"What is Morally right can never be politically wrong".
Oh that these MP's who were elected to power BY the people (supposedly) FOR the people, would represent them rather than tow the party line or even follow their own intillect. One thing I am compelled to add is this, when lowering the age of consent was on the cards I wrote to my MP informing him such an immoral law would put the government and the nation on a direct collision course with a Holy, Righteous and Just God. He dismissed my warning and guess what? Within a matter of days the FOOT AND MOUTH disease devastated out cattle industry at great financially cost to the nation and broke many a farmer's heart. Beware UK
Don Shalom, Darlington, UK
These regulations are nothing more than an attack on my freedom to live my life as I wish within the context of my Christian faith. They are legally unprecedented, making it an offense to 'violate the dignity' of a homosexual, and placing the burden of proof on the prosecuted party to show that they did not violate their dignity. The most important factor in determining a person's culpability in such cases will be THE PERCEPTION of the claimant. This is bad law with ill defined boundaries, that will discriminate strongly against a very large segment of society in order to promote the lifestyle choice of a tiny minority. These regulations should be stopped as being undemocratic, discriminatory and foe being an abuse of human rights. If these Bishops are willing to stand for democracy and prevent its abuse by this government then God bless them.
Timothy Jamieson, London, England
I feel very sad at the misunderstanding that many people have shown in their opinions about religion. Some say that religious values should be banned from our society. I wonder what kind of multicultural live and let live attitude that is based on??
As Christians (along with other faiths such as Jews/Muslims) we are saying we agree that unjust discrimination should be stopped, the Bible teaches the importance of justice and fairness. However these new regulations go much further than this and will mean that the right to live a homosexual life is more important than the right to live a religious life. In the pursuit to stop discrimination against one group these regulations will enforce discrimination against another, this is not fair or balanced.
Proper time and consideration has not been given to look into these regulations. Whether people agree with the them or not it is very clear that the government is forcing the SORs through and there is a severe lack of democratic process
Mrs I Moss, Lincs, UK
Rachel, you have no idea but well Said Andy Brown of Derby, UK. It seems to me that in 21st century Britain anyone and everyone has a valid opinion and a voice no matter how perverted or misguided they may be. All have a right to equality! However anyone who claims to be a Christian or have Christian values has their opinion and voice mocked, ridiculed and sidelined.
What about equality for Christians in 21st century Britain? Is that to much to ask for in a country that has prospered greatly and reaped so many benefits from it's rich Christian heritage over centuries of time. I fear that the very freedom that we have enjoyed for so long as a nation is being slowly lost.
In my view, our once great nation is steadily heading for social disaster and some of the laws that are being railroaded through parliament these days are simply bringing that disaster closer to us!
Isn't the government supposed to serve the people and their best interests? This SOR is surplus to requirement!
J Oldham, Manchester, UK
The death of morality in the UK is enacted before our eyes tomorrow if the SORs become law.
The future of England as we know it is gravely threatened.
The government in denying freedom of conscience to Christians is making a fatal mistake. All the problems in society which stem from liberal thinking are now enhanced in this bill of rights to homosexuals.
All we can look forward to now is a bleak future of ever increasing crime, corruption and moral bankruptcy. The family is seriously under attack. Gay rights activists are winning this relentless surreptitious campaign of watering down ordinary values of the majority of people in this country.
Save our country!
Julia Georgiou, Brentwood, Essex
I feel very sad at the misunderstanding of many people who have posted their opinions about religion. Some have said that religious values should be banned from our society I wonder what kind of multicultural live and let live attitude that is based on?
As Christians (along with other faiths such as Jews/Muslims) we are saying we agree that unjust discrimination should be stopped, the Bible teaches the importance of justice and fairness. However these new regulations go much further than this and will mean that the right to live a homosexual life is more important than the right to live a religious life. In the pursuit to stop discrimination against one group these regulations will enforce discrimination against another, this is not fair or balanced.
Proper time and consideration has not been given to look into these regulations. Whether people agree with them or not it is very clear that the government is forcing the SORs through and there is a severe lack of democratic process!
Mrs I Moss, Lincoln, UK
It's outragous, why should the church be able to influance the government, will all religions get a say so now? and as a multi-cultural society will we take into account other cultures specifications and ideals when making laws?
It's good to see the christians depriving children of good loving homes based on bigotry and hate, it's very.....christian of them???????????
Rachel, Merseyside,
Isn't it time we realised that it is the House of Commons that needs reforming?
For as long as I can remember they have lied to us, cheated us, conned and betrayed us. They have dragged us into wars we don't want and alliances we don't need. It is profoundly disturbing that an organization with so little day to day contact and influence with the populace as a whole is permitted to have such a stranglehold on our democracy.
If the Lord's is to be elected, do we actually need the Commons? Couldn't we just replace it by internet voting?
As for the Bishops, I suspect that if we also asked leaders of other Christian denominations, as well as the leaders of other major faith groups, they would also oppose the government...
R Evans, Reading,
So many of the contibutions above seem to have missed the point! People with religious faith are simply asking for equality and freedom from discrimination. They are asking that their rights to follow their faith are also respected - as well as the rights of homosexuals What this legeslation will fail to do is to balance the rights of religious people and homosexuals. Instead it will create a situation where the right to practice a homosexual lifestyle is seen as superior to the right to a religious lifestyle. On waht basis are these superior rights being given to homosexuals? Even if homosexual orientation were an inherent characteristic (scientifically unproven), why should a genetic characteristic necessarily give someone superior rights? Are we going to give the same rights to people genetically prone to violence or a sexual attraction to children? No doubt in the past homosexuals were persecuted... but the gay lobby is now becoming the persecutors!
Andy Brown, Derby, UK
Craig Nelson is mistaken in thinking that church activity is exempt from these regulations. No religion will be given exemption. Therefore if a Jewish Rabbi teaches that the Torah prohibits sex outside marriage; or a Muslim organisation refuses to employ someone in a homosexual relationship, they will be breaking the law just as much as a Roman Catholic adoption agency who refuses to place a child with a homosexual couple.
These regulations will discriminate against anyone who subscribes to a morality different from that of the gay lobby.
This is the thought police. Welcome to the new dictatorship.
Charis Andrews, Preston,
Its about time we had rights, why should the gay community be denied this?
Its not about religion its about true equality and the chuch needs to wake up and understand that all humans have the right not just the ones selcted by the church
The best way to resolve this is to finally seperate church from state.
Gino Meriano, Weybridge Surrey, UK
The bishops have as much chance of blocking this piece of legislation as I have of walking on water. However, it is profoundly disturbing that an organization with so little day to day contact and influence with the populace as a whole is permitted to exert such pressure on our democracy. The bishops should be excluded from the House of Lords until such time as constitutional change allows them to sit there after due democratic process. Their beliefs would not then be less odious but at least they would have the democratic right to expound them.
H Day, Ashford,
If these regulations become law people of different religions will be persecuted because they are not prepared to support or promote sexual orientation.
Why in our so called democracy has sexuality suddenly become more important than a person's religion? We are not supposed to be discriminating against people in our country but if these regulations become law they will do exactly that.
David Bird, Chirk,
"Eleanor Laing, the Tory MP, supported the Regulations and said that her brand of Christianity preached live and let live. "
Unless that is one is Catholic and find that homosexual adoption violates a Christian conception of the family. I doubt also if she will come to the rescue of Catholic homeschoolers who face the prospect of prison in some countries in Europe because it is not HER brand.
Catholicism, in contrast, is more than a brand and is not owned by anybody, not even the Pope.
Christopher Gillibrand, Brussels in exile, Belgium
The opposition by Christians to this law is nothing to do with homophobia or seeking to deny homosexuals their rights. We as Christians feel that we are living in a country where everyone is entitled to their view and to express it except christians. All we ask is that the law recognises that we have a right to hold to our view that any form of sex outside marriage is wrong and that we can carry out our activities with a clear conscience.
RF, Poole, Uk
In a way I am pleased that this is happening. It is showing to the world how backward the views of religion is, and how tolerant government is of such views in under the heading of 'religious conscience'. The days of religious involvement in society is this awful way must be numbered if we want to have a society based on Inclusion and Equality for all.
Antony Richards, Portsmouth, UK
if these unelected bishops attempt this, ir really is time for the secular majority to rise up abd put an end to their privelaged access to our democratic structures ... and while we're at it, put an end to enforced religious indoctrination in schools, state funding of "faith" schools and many mor things. It is time the dark ages were over.
keep your faith by all means bishops, but don;t impose them on th rest of us any more. I am a heterosexual athiest and belive in defending the right of gay people and religious people to live a life free of persecution...but he privelage given to religious bigotry and cherry pivking from "god's word" is becoming overwhelming.
time to act,
grahame whitfield, sheffield,
With mindless bigotry such as this, is it any wonder that the church is losing its constituency?
Millenia-old dogma based on the writings of men subject to the mores and prejudices of another time have no place in a modern civilisation.
John Lockett, Burnley, Lancs.,
This is far more than discriminating against homosexuals; this is telling Christian's that they have to tear out the pages of the Bible that our secular society doesn't like and then make sure we teach our children everything contrary to God's laws. No wonder we live in a nation that comes bottom of the UNICEF's poll or where our streets and homes are no longer safe. Neglect God's laws at your peril. Christian's didn't make up the rules, God did and we should have the right to be able to follow Christ without having to risk imprisonment because the SORs will prevent us teaching what we know to be The Way.
Karen Ann Bruin, YORK,
No, dt, just a level playing field. If you really want to know what persecution is you should ask a gay man who lives in Nigeria....or someone gay in this country only 20 years ago.
Rob, Cambridge, UK
dt, I'd say this law seeks to put a halt to those discriminated by religion. I can't believe these christians are fighting so hard to be able to continue discriminating like this. It doesn't show them in a very good light.
Mumbles, Surrey,
I fear that blocking this law would be the gateway for homophobia, very well disguised of course as religious conscience...
Chris, Dorking, UK
So long as people don't discriminate in the provision of goods and services there will be no problem - that is the whole purpose of the regs.
Church activity itself is exempt from the regulations in quite a wide way so there will be no probelm. In addition freedom of religion is in any case protected under the human rights act.
What we are seeing, unfortunately, is that the mainstream of christianity are now also giving in to fear mongering and making a grab at victim status, merely because a group they have been instrumental in persecuting over the centuries have gained a measure of equality.
It's truly appalling and will tarnish religion for a very long time.
Craig Nelson, Nottingham, UK
I fear this law is the gateway for religious persecution, very well disguised of course but...
dt, london,