Whatever the stupidity of the beliefs, I refuse to accept as a religion an organisation that makes it compulsery to BUY initiation, progression and 'salvation'. Becoming an inner initiate costs upwards of 50,000 pounds. Why?

Many religious organisations seem more interested in soliciting donations than other matters, bur scientology is in a league of its own. There is no reason for keeping any of its 'beliefs' secret. There is also no reason why objective scientific enquiry shouldn't take place over their 'methods' and machines.

As for the attack on psychiatry! Of course they will attack the one group of people best placed to show scientology's psuedo-science for what it is, very expensive snake oil.

Freedom of speech, even if badly applied, is fundemental. Scientology has an appaling record of opposing this with dubious tactics.

Carry on BBC. Don't be silenced.

David, Bedford, UK

Looks like Private Eye's assessment of Sweeney as a "foghorn-voiced hack" is right on the money.

Seriously, how bad a job do you have to do as a journalist to allow the "church" of Scientology to lok like anything other than money-grubbing fantasists?

TimC, Swansea, UK

Mark wrote:

"Scientology has a history of being attacked by vested interests whose crimes have been exposed by it. A very similar case to Panorama was the 1991 smear campaign by Time magazine in the USA. It turned out that the thing had been inspired by the psychiatric/pharmaceutical industry whose drugging for profit racket had been exposed by the Scientologists"

What Mark here calls a "smear campaign" was the TIME Magazine cover story "Scientology: The Thriving Cult of Greed and Power". It won the writer Richard Behar a number of awards for investigative journalism from prestigious journalist groups, among them the Worth Bingham prize, presented at the White House Correspondents dinner.

Scientology sued TIME Magazine for $ 416 million to punish them for reporting and to dissuade others to do so in the future, but the lawsuit was thrown out completely after years of legal costs. TIME Magazine were willing to take the fight then and I hope the BBC will stand up to them now too.

Marcus, Stockholm, Sweden

Cont:

[quote: simon]Is the idea that we descended from aliens really any more outlandish than the idea that a man died on a cross and then came back to life? [endquote]

What distinguishes them is their intent? The most cursory examination of Scientology suggests their motives are not pure.

To those who invoke Religion, Christianity, Catholicism, etc? Well yes. But no! O.K. The claims may well be equally outlandish? Faith *is* irrational belief, by it's very definition. The first 2000 years or so we're pretty bloody, there were the same power games, they had commercial adventures in the name of profit, what with all the indulgences and crusades and morally dubious trade and what have you, they sought to crush their enemies, and there was even a bit of selective editing along the way, but at centre, they were founded on sincere, true believers i suspect, motivated by the best of intentions ( to save souls? ) even if the end result is evil?

Not the same thing at all!

Neil, Leeds, West Yorkshire

Fools & their money...

Roo, London, UK

I find it amusing that any cult newly developed will obviously be mocked and attacked, concerning brain washing and retrieving as much money from the people who join.

I note that Cristianity, is pritty much in the same vane, with regard to extraction of cash in order to curry favour and avoid the flames of hell and damnation. Also , we are aware that Cristianity had its own battle when starting out .

What bothers me about Christianity, is that the Church in its own interests can change doctrine 2000 years later at the drop of a hat, ie the recent , new belief that Purgatory does not exsist anymore, well done.

I congradulate Christianity on its own hypocrisy.

For the people who truely have faith, I have to wonder how they come to terms with this. I really do.

peter Hagan, Liverpool, England

Actually I watched the BBC's program and also the Scientologist's counter documentary which I found at http://www.bbcpanorama-exposed.org/watch-the-video-documentary.php. I have to say after seeing the Scientology footage taken while their program was being made, the BBC does not look good. It's fascinating to see what the editors of programs would have you not see.

Roz, London, UK

Scientology has a history of being attacked by vested interests whose crimes have been exposed by it. A very similar case to Panorama was the 1991 smear campaign by Time magazine in the USA. It turned out that the thing had been inspired by the psychiatric/pharmaceutical industry whose drugging for profit racket had been exposed by the Scientologists. Its easy to label the Scientologists as "controversial" & write them off as having a history of litigation - they have fought back, survived and continue to grow despite 57 years of criminal harassment from vested interests. Compare their history with Christianity derided as a "cult" by the Romans who were throwing Christians to the lions and nailing their leader to a cross - times change. Think for yourself and don't fall for the black propaganda on Scientology touted as "fact". Go to a library and read a book from L. Ron Hubbard
and make up your own mind before you decide to join the
mob throwing people to the lions....

Mark, East Grinstead, United Kingdom

If you think about it, there are certain established religions that could have begun in the same way as Scientology, by somebody thinking up a clever stunt and then flogging it to the mug punters as a sort of spiritual pyramid selling scheme. I'm not saying they did. Christianity and Hinduism are not such religions because they originally evolved out of the beliefs of a large number of people. Islam, Buddhism and Mormonism, by contrast, all derive from the revelations of/through one man.

Frank Upton, Solihull,

People are mad to believe the so-called Scientology !! are they insane!!!?? well Good for UK not let them become a church!

The spoken man for Scientology on BBC is so nasty... he just keep talking like a woman!!!

mikki, Canada,

T Bishop - resoundingly NO!

W Goudie, Wirral, UK

Scientology is like some kind of bad joke. What is more, is has become a trendy joke thanks to the way in which its more famous proponents seem to be virtually worshipped. I have no time for most religions as I need no afterlife insurance, but some of the techniques used by the movementarians - -oops, sorry the "Church" of Scientology seem morally objectionable at best.

Dan, Hampton, UK

Some years ago in Germany, the scientologists lost a court battle about the right to call themselves a religion. After lengthy deliberations the court ruled that Scientology is not a religion but a commercial enterprise!

mathias, beverley, UK

How is Scientology somehow less legitimate than Chrisitianity et al?

Both involve the abdication of reason.

Daniel, Belfast,

Scientology, whatever else may be said about it, does seem to meet the criteria of being a religion.

It has a suitably bizarre story to account for the problems of the world, no stranger than the garden of Eden story shared by several recognized religions today. It has its particular solution to that identified problem, no stranger than the notion that a loving creator had to sacrifice a part of himself to propitiate his own demands for retribution to balance human disobediance. (I spent years of my life trying to believe that one!) It persecutes its detractors, just like the Christians did the pagans after Constntine legalized the sect (just as the pagans did to the christians). It has its prohpet(s), no more bizarre than Joseph Smith and his encounter with the angel Maroni. It demands obedience and material support from its adherents, who seem to derive some benefit from their practices and beliefs.

Since when does the absence of truth and fact disqualify it as a religion?

Ben, NJ, USA

lets not forget that the only difference between a cult and a religion is number of followers.

is the idea that we descended from aliens really any more outlandish than the idea that a man dies on a cross and then cam back to life?

simon mawdsley, london,

It is frightening to think that someone walking down a public street might actually believe this stuff.

Kim Righetti, Upland, Calif. USA

Do we not think that people are sensible enough to make their own minds up about things?

T. Bishop, London, United Kingdom

[quote: Ivan Jimenez, tampa, fl] I have ben a Scientologist over 12 years and I have never seen that. Are you making that up? [endquote]

not quite made it to Operating Thetan yet then? ;)

keep this to yourself won't you, but you don't get the Xenu lecture till you hit OT Level III. I'm reluctant to say more just in case the Panorama guys are reading this? :P

neil

Neil, Leeds, West Yorkshire

Religion never is a logic thing, but that people acually believe this Scientology crap is unsettling.

Marco Torelli, Herten,

Scientology is just as real as any other religion it’s just more recently created and has more modern and up to date mythology associated with and to it. There are no gods. We are all gods and what we think, do, and say has an impact on others and this little planet we all inhabit. We are all, whether we like it or not, Pangaean’s.

Alan , Cambridge , Suffolk

Hubbard actually devised his whole Xenu stuff working for a higher grade within the O.T.O, back when he hung around with Jack Parsons (the rocket scientist who blew himself up). He properly assumed there'd be enough idiots he could sell dung and thrive off of, so he went ahead with that scheme. Basically the "old wise man in the mountain Hashashim con" done all over again.

Quite sad, actually, that people believe that stuff. But then the meaning of life is that it has no meaning, so if it makes them feel better, then they ought to go ahead.

However, these base men and women should be kept from stalking and trampling their critic's lawn. Oh, and behaving like the inquisition all over again.

Johann, Muenster, Germany

We all believe lots of daft things; mankind always has. What should matter to people is whether their beliefs are working for them. Too many people continue to believe stuff that damages them, rather than examine and question those beliefs and find better stuff to believe.
Scientology seems to have worked pretty well for some of these crazy film stars with millions to burn (and vice versa!), while Catholicism has caused huge amounts of suffering to millions of people.
Too each their own.
Panorama is now a dumbed down mockery of what it once was; no doubt Sweeney thought he was onto an easy thing here. The BBC loves to go after seemingly easy targets of little importance.
Although I have no time for Scientology or any other belief system based on the teachings of one man (or "god"), I like the idea of them doing to BBC what BBC were doing to them: filming them filming them.

harlan Leyside, basildon,

Irrespective of ones views on scientology (and mine are far from positive), it is hard not to feel a sense of satisfaction at the thought of journalists being harassed, having their 'privacy' invaded, and suffering all the discomfort of being misquoted, "taken out of context," and all the other things they inflict on their victims... all in the public interest, of course.

Hopefully more organizations wil adopt this tactic.

Nick, Rotherham, UK

You never know, in a few hundred years it might have transformed into a 'proper' monotheistic-type religion, when folk will claim that Prophet Hubbard sailed into the blue where he met God who told him to start Scientology.

Certainly no more crazy than a bloke walking on water and curing leprosy with his hands or some random guy retreating to a cave and having deep conversations with Allah.

Mark A, Lincoln, UK

Religion is ALL about brainwashing anyway just because christianity is the main religion is europe though (catholicism, protestantism etc) and it's been around for a few hundred years doesn't make it any better than any religion. Religion has nothing to do with trust or truth and that is why all religions are against anyone being crtitical about it. Religion is about controlling people and that is what cults and sects are trying to do, successfully sometimes.
In this case the scientologists hit back and used panoramas methods to irritate them just like they irritate whoever they investigate. I do believe the BBC means well but they prefer proving themselves right rather than going for the truth, if the truth is not exactly what they thought.
Why doesn't the BBC show us panorama and then the scientologists DVD so we can make up our own mind, unless BBC is a religion now so we just believe it without investigating its claims hehehe

Alex, Manchester, UK

Not that I do not agree with many that the legends of scientology are slightly far-fetched but as many point out, they are not unlike those of many other religions. Is a 75m year old warlord that unlike legends of demons?

Even the accusations of ripping people off financially are applicable to many established religions.

Abioye A Oyetunji, London, UK

What about the Church of Tommy Cooper (aka atheism)? They seriously believe that the universe exists, "Just like that!" Because, of course, a "random quantum fluctuation of nothing" happens every day. That's how the rabbit comes out of the hat. These guys must believe in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy because rational people know that the presents and the money under the pillow come about through intelligent design.

Kevin, London,

My sister is a Scientologist (although I am not) and the Xenu claims seems confusing- where is that from- have never heard that!?? I'm not sure why the press seem intent on vilifying something that does work for a lot of people.

Sarani Misan, London, UK

It is obvious that right from the start, the Panorama team's purpose has been to defame and denigrate a religion that has been recognized as such by top religious scholars - including the late Bryan Wilson of Oxford University - and numerous administrative and judicial decisions from around the world. Such a purpose is malicious and oppressive and is completely unacceptable for a public agency like the BBC. John Sweeney and those behind him have no place in an organization that should foster understanding, no promote hatred, bigottery and prejudice.

Jean Lariviere, Montreal, Canada

When have the church ever asserted "that 75m years ago an evil galactic war-lord called Xenu rounded up 13.5 trillion beings from an overpopulated corner of the galaxy, dumped them on volcanoes on Earth, then vaporised them with nuclear bombs. Their radioactive souls, or thetans, later attached themselves to human beings and are at the root of our personal and global problems today." I have ben a Scientologist over 12 years and I have never seen that. Are you making that up?

Ivan Jimenez, tampa, fl

The Scientology cult has developed an unfortunate reputation for using underhand tactics against anyone who dares to speak out against it. I once dated a Scientologist who tried and failed to convert me. However, I was always one step ahead of his propaganda as I had researched the subject on the internet, where you will find all their doctrine and “brainwashing” techniques dissected by former members. It gave me a thorough insight into the Cult, without the need to run down my bank account. I have a natural aversion to any cult which promises the secrets of the Universes in exchange for the equivalent of hundreds of thousands of dollars. Old Father Hubbard knew a money coining machine when he saw one and tax free too.

Kate Winspur, Melbourne, Australia

Geeez, everybody knows the flying spaghetti monster is the only god.

Or was it the invisible pink unicorn?

I'm confused.

starling, Lancaster,

' A mind, once stretched by a new idea, never regains its original dimension'. I feel sorry for people who have inadvertently got wrong information or ideas stuck in their heads and find it impossible to get rid of them for ever. We may like to think that we are intelligent, wise and sophisticated and we are all capable of distinguishing between truth and falsehood easily. The reality is we are much more gullible than we imagine. we all rely on our five senses to receive and interpret information and they are far from being perfect. Also emotions, ethnic backgrounds, environments, personal circumstances etc. can easily influence or cloud our judgements. The unpalatable truth is we may like to think we are very well educated or street-wise, the simple fact is we are really susceptible to being deluded, misled, conceived or even brain washed. Politicians, advertisers, cowboy builders or even our lovers do them to us all the time. Being rational is much easier said than done!

Wing, Poole, UK

You know, I think that there is something magical about umbrellas; so I have decided to found a religion devoted to the worship of umbrellas. We will call ourselves the Fox Frame Group and will only wear black silk - or rayon for those less affluent. I am now seeking a personality ie a "celebrity" who will join with me as joint founder. I do hope to find a suitable man or woman of standing. Offers?

John Roberts, Seaford, England

I find it utterly bizarre that people actually believe this Scientology stuff - I mean seriously! Ron Hubbard has even been quoted as saying if you want to make money start up a religious cult - I think that says it all! What I can't believe is how far it's managed to spread itself into main stream society!

EmmyK, Dubai,

Is Xenu any more wierd than creationism?

All churches have beliefs that can be held to ridicule. Angels, virgin births, and an omnipresent god. Come to that, a belief in god is off the wall if it is looked at logically. Why pick on Scientology alone?

Religion keeps these people off the streets on various days of the week. More room for the rest of us.

Derek Smith, Brighton, UK

when I was a student in London 20ish years ago, they were doing "stress tests" on the Tottenham Court Road. Having done the test for fun, not knowing what it was, I was then taken to be told the results, and was told that I needed serious help as I was the kind of person that would get addicted to hard drugs and was a weak person. Apparently I needed to buy this book about "dianetics" by L Ron Hubbard to help me. Luckily I knew that they were wrong, but I worry for the people who may have been sucked in by these underhand tactics. It was only years later that I put 2 and 2 together and realised that I had a lucky escape. It is an extremely decietful way of recruiting. If it was not a cult, it would be more honest in its recruitment. Surely religion is about truth and trust. I look forward to watching the programme.......

debs the escapist, devon,

I don't agree with the faith but again if thats what they want to do fine. The BBC is an overgrown munster that needs bringing back down to earth and I'm sure scrapping the TV Licence would do this

John, Salford, England

David Beckham is a friend of Tom Cruise.Beckham, now lives in Southern California - nut central. Beckham would be an ideal target for these people. Becks - be afraid, be very afraid. One David Iyke is more than enough.

eddie reader, birmingham, uk

And just what is wrong with the church of Kryten?

Kidd Garrett, Bristol, UK

And Hubbard knew about some war-lord 75 million years ago, because...? Sounds more like a bad Doctor Who plot than a religion. But then, the newest "relligion" in the world is based on fictional Jedi Knights. What's next, one wonders? A cult based on Star Trek or Red Dwarf? One shudders at the thought...

"Dusty" , Adirondacks, USA NY

Wow, they attack before they even see the flim? And they will only let you talk to them if they pick who you talk to? How weird is that.
Hard to get both sides with those silly rules. For them to go after the show before it even airs tells you they fear the truth coming out.
At least the English were smart enough not to let them be called a church.

JeraldR, Al, USA