Richard Owen and Ruth Gledhill
Star musicians and your favourite Times writers at the Albert Hall

The Vatican has described the Protestant and Orthodox faiths as “not proper Churches” in a document issued with the full authority of the Pope.
Anglican leaders reacted with dismay, accusing the Roman Catholic Church of paradoxical behaviour. They said that the new 16-page document outling the “defects” of non-Catholic churches constituted a major obstacle to ecumenism.
The document said that the Orthodox church suffered from a “wound” because it did not recognise the primacy of the Pope. The wound was “still more profound” in Protestant denominations, it added.
It was “difficult to see how the title of ‘Church’ could possibly be attributed to them”, said the statement from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. Roman Catholicism was “the one true Church of Christ”.
The language echoes earlier statements by the same body, headed by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger until he became Pope. The statement appears to be at odds with attempts to soften Pope Benedict’s image as a doctrinal hardliner and to present him as a more human figure reaching out to other faiths. And it risks undermining his own efforts for Christian unity.
Protestants at the extreme evangelical end of the Anglican spectrum accused Rome of a “lust for power”, while welcoming the honesty of the document.
Lambeth Palace, the office of the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, was more diplomatic. A spokesman issued a statement that lacked any formal welcome, describing the document as “significant”.
Vatican sources said that the document was an attempt to resolve “confusion” caused by the apparent conflict between the Pope’s assertion on his election two years ago that Christian unity was a priority and his insistence in “Dominus Iesus”, issued in 2000 when he was Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger – that Anglican, Protestant and Orthodox Christians did not belong to “proper” churches.
Father Augustine Di Noia, a senior doctrinal official at the Vatican, insisted that the Catholic Church was not “backtracking on ecumenical commitment. But it is fundamental to any kind of dialogue that the participants are clear about their own identity. That is, dialogue cannot be an occasion to accommodate or soften what you understand yourself to be.”
Vatican officials insist that the Pope’s attachment to bedrock traditional values is compatible with dialogue with other Christians. Yesterday’s document said that such dialogue remained “one of the priorities of the Catholic Church”.
The document said that the Second Vatican Council’s opening to other faiths – including “ecclesial communities originating with the Reformation” – had recognised there were “many elements of sanctification and truth” in other Christian denominations, but had also emphasised that only Catholicism was fully Christ’s Church.
The document said that other Christian faiths “lack elements considered essential to the Catholic Church”.
The disappointment of the Anglicans was evident in the response of Canon Gregory Cameron, Dr Williams’s former chaplain in Wales and a leading canonical lawyer and scholar who is now ecumenical officer of the Anglican Communion.
Canon Cameron said: “In the commentary of this document we are told that ‘Catholic ecumenism’ appears ‘somewhat paradoxical’. It is paradoxical for leaders of the Roman Catholic Church to indicate to its ecumenical partners that it no longer expects all other Christians merely to return to the true (Roman Catholic) Church, but then for Rome to say that it alone has ‘full identity’ with the Church of Christ, and that all others of us are lacking.”
He said Anglican bishops had indicated in 1997 that such a position constituted “a major ecumenical obstacle”.
The Rev David Phillips, General Secretary of the Church Society, said: “Nothing new is said, but it does clarify the way in which the Vatican has torn apart Christianity because of its lust for power. They remind us that in their view that to be a true church one has to accept the ludicrous idea that the Pope is in some special way the successor of the apostle Peter and the supreme earthly leader of the Church.
“These claims cannot be justified, biblically, or historically, yet they have been used not only to divide Christians but to persecute them and put them to death.
“We are grateful that the Vatican has once again been honest in declaring their view that the Church of England is not a proper Church. Too much dialogue proceeds without such honesty. Therefore, we would wish to be equally open; unity will only be possible when the papacy renounces its errors and pretensions.”
The Vatican and Catholisim and the Catholic Church rely on fear amongst their followers and have done since the day the papacy was formed . The fact that other religions stand up against this means they are intolerant of other religions. Their religion is borne of the dark ages and has no place in modern society. The cover up of sexual abuse by so called followers of GOD all over the world is proof of the deep rooted problems this church has for years covered up. BJK
Ian Dbear, Stirling, Scotland
Yet again The Vatican & The Pope are very wrong ,
A Christian is a follower of christ , one who celebraites his greatness and his existance on earth ,
so they say Protestants Dont ?
Many like David Livingston of Scotland travelled the world inc Africa to Preach the Gospal, many Protestants died inc being Burned and starved (ie Patrick Hamilton, St Andrews ) in Gods name , so these brave martyrs where not followers of christ ?
I think the truth is the Vatican believes what it wants to believe and passes their one sided beliefs to their jesuits and priests to take into the catholic community & beyond , maybe it would be morarlly correct for the RC Church not deny the rights of other Christians but continue Privately in their own prefered religious ways of worship and to let other People decide for themselves instead of trying to brainwash people into believeing otherwise !!
God Help Us All
Colin Campbell , Glasgow, Scotland , UK
The Roman Catholic Church has been following tradition for centuries and in recent times has strayed away from tradition. All that Pope Benedict XVI wants to do is bring back tradition. The Roman Catholic Church is the one true church of Christ. All of these protestant religions have left the one universal church (Catholic = universal). They denounced various beleifs of the church and thus have flaws. The pope is truley the successor of St. Peter as layed down by Christ himself that the church on earth will always have a leader, the Roman Pontiff. He is Christ's voice on earth and to not follow him is wrong. I am a Roman Catholic and I beleive that anyhting the pope says on faith or morals is the truth (Papal Infalibility). Tradition is a good thing and to bring it back to the church would be grand. One of the steps in bringing back tradition is acknowledging this issue. Tradition is and should be the church's goal. As it has been seen with a lack of tradition everything can fall apart
Ryan, shelton, America
Catholics do not worship icons or statues. We worship the Holy Trinity alone, three Persons in One God, the Father Son and Holy Spirit. Some teachings in the Catholic Church are certainly not popular but we believe that the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit, in the doctrines It teaches. The Holy Father has to protect His flock, and we trust the Church is doing its best to guide its people, in order to live a life in the Natural Law, the way Christ wants us to live it.
Anthony Vaz, Singapore, Singapore
The Pope is not known for being PC. He is blunt. And he IS stating Catholic doctrine.
I am Catholic. I have had plenty of friends tell me what errors they find in my beliefs. As long as they are honest, still respect me and my right to believe, no offense is taken.
Since the horrors of the Crusades and Inquisitions (for which we are ashamed and sorry), we have become a Church which preaches humility. We do not, therefore, see non-Catholic Christians as being less than us as Christians, even though we see errors in their doctrines. We do not see non-Christians as less than us, even though we believe Christ is the only way to salvation. We are taught that we do not know what goes on between another person and God in life or death, so we try to represent His love the best we can and leave the judging up to Him.
A good resource for anyone who is truly interested in Catholic doctrine is apologist Scott Hahn. He can clarify the confusing issues of "idolatry", etc.
Roberta Barnum , Cranham, UK
Pope Benedict XVI is a brilliant man. I'm confident he is quite aware of the history of the Catholic Church, beginning with Jesus Christ until today. As for the varied, delusional myth theories that like to imagine the Catholic Church morphed idols into Jesus, anyone clinging to these false accusations has a National Enquirer mentality. While the other churches are busy being offended by the Pope's statments, it is better to keep this in mind: the Catholic Church alone is remaining strong and united against virulent attacks on the family, homosexual teaching and the like. There may be evil men within the Cathoic Church, however, the Church itself is the work of the Holy Spirit, and will not be destroyed by any demonic efforts.
Mary , Los Angeles, CA
It seems that the present Pope does not know his own church history. The Notorious two Sylvester I and the pagan Constantine I in 325AD all they did was to change the name of their god Mithra to Jesus and kept all the traditions, example Mithras clergy were celibate and Mithras birthday is 25th December and nothing to do with Jesus.
If then the Roman Catholic is it the true church, when we are commanded by God in the bible not to idol worship, another term for idols is icons, to venerate an icon is to worship it. Let him that is without SIN cast the first stone.
Dr Mohammed Omar, London, United Kingdom
Let us set this right the church of Rome was the first break from a united church where the pope was at constantinople and the church at Rome broke from it so they are no different from any other break away since. They say that Peter was the first Pope of Rome yet he died centuries before the church of Rome broke from Constantinople. There is only one church and that has Jesus Christ as the head and not the Pope or any other man so let the Pope of Rome bow his knee to the real head of the church and stop pretending he represents God alone for all who follow Jesus Christ are equal with none over us except our Lord and Saviour.
John Blakeston, Ramsgate, Kent
You know what? I am really tired of this argument about people saying that they can trace their priesthood back to a certain time. Wasn't it John the Baptist who chastized the Pharisees for their claim to paternal lineage. Saying that they had Abraham as their father so they were right. if I'm not mistaken, John pointed out that God was capable of raising up children of Abraham from stones laying near by. No such claim holds any water for me. It's like saying well since George Washington was a good president and every president since can be traced back to him, that they all must be perfectly good and without flaw. Its ludicrous and just a dogmatic argument fed to a bunch of Catholics who are not willing to think for themselves. Its a banner slogan, not even a worthy point. Study to show yourselves approved. Seek God, not wisdom or salvation in a man of flesh.
Rob, Dover, DE
If I were going to write an article about a document, I would read it first. Maybe that's just me. The document simply does not say that the Orthodox Churches are not true Churches. This is false and detrimental reporting
www.holydormition.blogspot.com
John R.P. Russell, Indianapolis, Indiana, USA
Wait to the end, and see whou gets "Left Behind."
jabin, Adak, Alaska
This comes as no surprise, as, I believe it's always been Catholic doctrine - it's just not often spelled out. However the Pope made a distinction between the Orthodox branch - which he did say could be seen as "churches" and had apostolic succession (though they had a "wound") and the Protestants, who, he said, could not. I wonder why he doesn't logically make a distinction for Anglicanism, whose priests have been ordained in an unbroken line back to Catholic times. Or was this officially cancelled by Papal decree back in the 16th C and this didn't occur in the split from the Orthodoc Church back in the 11th??
Oliver, Nice, France
Michael of Orlando, you can't really believe that the Pope has been slanderous and stupid in what he says here. Do read it again and make some allowances.
Father Bryan Storey, Tintagel, UK
I had always thought that the word "Church" referred to us, The Christians, the body of Christ. I thought that WE ARE the church. So by claiming that all other denominations other than Catholics are not Churches, then the Pope is also declaring that anyone other than Catholics are not Christians. But if we look at the word Christians, it means to be a "Christ follower". And as far as I know, non-Catholics who follow Christ are also "Christ Followers." So in conclusion, the bold and SLANDEROUS statement that the Pope made about non-Catholic Churches not being Churches is a VERY BAD and STUPID call on his side.
Michael, Orlando,
Charlie of London, where did you hear that nonsense? Of course only God forgives sins. There's no payment.
Father Bryan Storey, Tintagel, UK
I believe that the Catholic church has drifted far from what it should be. I can't see Paul encouraging people to pay to have their sins forgiven. To be honest, all churches have drifted far from the Church Jesus began 200 years ago. I believe in following what the Bible says... Only that, not doing things because of tradition etc. It saddens me deeply to hear the Pope has said this at all. Only Jesus can forgive our sins, not Mary, not the Pope, not a Priest. Jesus.
Charlie, London, England
Heather, the Pope is trying to embrace the teachings of Jesus which includes the Papal leadership.
Father Bryan Storey, Tintagel, UK
Romoan Catholicism may be the closest to the Churches teachings as I mentioned before, and I beleive, so far, that this is true in many ways. However, I do beleive the Pope's speech about this was totally unnecessary, as there are already many social barriers in the world because of different religions and the lack of tolerance towards them without building barriers in a single religion. Not to mention the country's "declining morality".
I don't know much about all these denominations, but I did learn in Religious Studies Christianity was following the teachings of Christ, and during his life Christ did not deliberatly set upon making such barriers. Shouldn't the Pope be trying to embrace Jesus' teachings and try to do what he would do in these times rather than make unnecessary remarks about others paths to the same place.
Heather, Stockton, UK
This should of been said a long time ago when those other churchs were established so those who were lied to to enter would not be lashing out against the Pope at this time. Jesus just wants all of us Christians under one Church; the Church he created 2000 years ago.
Jacob, Jackson, Tennessee
Father Chad of Woodbury, Iowa, where did you get the idea it's like that? What an odd notion that it's just to do with power. The Pope is responding to the Lord. That he must do. He is he servant of God's servants. Why should anybody who's not a member wish to receive Holy Communion in our Catholic church? This is much more than a social response. I go to ecumenical services from time to time but I do not demand the Communion there.
Father Bryan Storey, Tintagel, UK
So why do you title the article with the term 'Roman' catholic?
Are you not aware that many catholics are not 'roman rite'?
I jumped to the link for this article because I thought you were advertising some excommunication of churches! Very funny.
Malapropos.
joan, lovely,
Such comments are not made lightly, there is much study involved in everything which comes out of the Vatican. When you look at it, it is theologically sound, and simply re-states traditional Catholic belief on the subject.
Simon Davies, Norwich, UK
The truth is the truth and perhaps this is the time the Pope declares the one true and proper church of Christ non other than the Catholic church! It is like the proclamation of the kingdom of heaven by Christ himself in His time non other than the kingdom of God! Prosecution of people who speak the truth happens every now and then, too many of them in actual fact. The Pope is simply saying what should be said long time ago. For the protestants to retaliate by using such remark as "lust for power" shows the leaders are not proper themselves and how can their churches be proper??!
Maggie Ong, Selangor, Malaysia
I am horrified that the Holy Father would denounce all others who are not under his authority. I found this out when many who thought they was catholics was denied communion, reconcilation, last rites etc. Even I as a former Roman Catholic was denied to come to our Lord's table becasue I chose to follow a different group of catholics similiar to the Orthodox faith.
To bad I am not allowed to claim that Rome is not a true church anymore since it delves into a power trip. WE all came from Rome at one time or another, and yet they still teach much ignorance.
I am glad I am walking away from all of this soon.
Father Chad, Woodbury, Iowa
Whoever started the idea that the Catholic Church does not have exclusive claims?. Anyhow I think it's pretty well known though a good number want to fudge the issue.
Father Bryan Storey, Tintagel, UK
Of course the Pope would say this, and how in all reality can anyone expect otherwise? The Roman Catholic Church, like all other denominations, is an exclusivist one, and as the head of such an organisation the Pope is therefore doing his job correctly. The Archbishop of Canterbury, or indeed the Queen, would be well within their rights to say the same thing about the Catholic Church, although it would not be very diplomatically astute. Aside from critical differences of doctrine, the Catholic Church is an entirely seperate organisation, and an evangelistic one at that. This is the sort of thing that the Pope shoukd be saying in order to fulfil his role.
Oliver Mitchell, London,
Nothing matters much and at the end of the day nothing matters at all.
John Trollope, Huddersfield, U.K.
I was disturbed by the Pope's comments on other churches.
This seems contrary to the teaching I learnt as a young man- I am now 67 -that all valdily bapisted Christians were members of the(Roman) Catholic Church but unaware of it and that despite the fact that their rites, rituals and ceremonies are different in part or in whole from similar Roman Catholic rites, rituals, etc. The Nestorians brought a form of Christianity to the East, and Anglicans from the London Missionary Society brought the Gospel to people in Africa, I would consider it unfair to say that non Roman Catholic churches did not minister to and bring the Gospel to pagan and heathen peoples throughout the world.The Roman Catholic Church cannot plainly claim exclusiveness in this. The Catholic Church is one not only of the Word but most specifically of Sacrament and thus its emphasis on Eucharist and Priesthood. To say Protestants are Ministers but not Priests, would be a truer, fairer and kinder comment. 0PI
Penvronius Miles Cambrensis, sfo, London , Greater London
Sorry, my message for Helen is meant for Heather.
Brian Lewis of Manila. However, whatever, the underlying message is that the lord has arranged for the Pope to be our guide in Faith and Morals. This is clear in Scripture. The well known objections are very weak. We need to be in unity with him. Ubi Petrus, ibi Ecclesia.
Father Bryan Storey, Tintagel, UK
Sorry, my message to Helen, should be to Heather.
Brian Lewis of Manila, however, whatever, the underlying meaning is that Peter and succesors are important moral guides of Faith, estabished by the Lord. The Community of believers urgently needs unity with him. I find it crystal clear in Scripture. The well known objections are very weak. I have to live with this truth. Ubi Petrus, ibi Ecclesia.
f, Tintagel, UK
I am a bit puzzled by what we mean by 'discrimination'. If I borrow the Pope's words with a slight change, what is wrong with " If it' s not English, it is not a proper culture, the Queen tells the world'". Or are some people saying you can discriminate as long as you believe what you say! Can I do what I like if I really believe in myself!
Brian Lewis, Manila, Philippines
Hello Helen of Stockton, UK. Thanks for what you say and how you say it. Yes, you have me right. I firmly believe in Catholicism without hesitation or ambiguity. I think it matters. I see the way forward as being very open to God.
Father Bryan Storey, Tintagel, UK
Hello, Father Bryan Storey (I made a comment on another thread to do with homosexuality and misunderstood your point, sorry). I understand that you are not trying to really convert people but are just trying to explain to them that Catholicism is the only denomination of Christianity that is closest to the Bible. Am I right? This probably is the case, but what do you think? Do you think it matters aslong as people respect the Christian God and have found their path?
Heather, Stockton, UK
You can best encourage us wicked Catholics to repent , N. Walker of Indianapolis, IN by your personal repentance in deep humility.
Father Bryan Storey, Tintagel, UK
In my opinion and with all due respect to the head of the world church, or the whore of Babylon as it is known in the Book of Revelation, you are very arrogant to presume the things that you do. As Jesus said in the Book of Matthew Chap.23, " The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
Everything they do is done for men to see. They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; ...And do not call anyone on earth "father", for you have one Father, and He is in heaven... Woe unto you teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! ...Blind guides!... Blind fools!... Whitewashed tombs!... Repent! "
M Walker, Indianapolis, IN
We need to see what exactly the Pope meant when he said that. Also it is not justified to take a line from the Pope's writings out of context. Before making judgemental statements, on anyone, it is best to read the complete story.
Joeyanna, Mumbai, India
Once again, the Pope puts his foot in his mouth. It is irresponsible of the Pope to make such comments particularly in view of the state of the planet today. Not only that, it simply is not true. If one follows the teachings of Christ what difference does it make if one is Roman Catholic, Anglican, Methodist, Baptist, etc. ???
Mike, Houston, Texas
I read "of course there can only be one god". Well, I've heard about sun gods, rain gods, snake gods, elephant gods, gods on the top of mountains, Ra and Thor and Zeus, the wrathful god of the OT and the loving god of the NT, Jahweh, Allah and many more that I can't even remember. Almost all of them have disappeared along with those who believed in them. Not surprising, since they only existed in their minds. But some gods are still around, waiting eventually to die a similar death. -- Now I know the Catholic church has been around for two thousand years, but that's only a blink of the eyelid compared with, say, the 100 million years or so that the dinosaurs "ruled" the earth. But then they disappeared. Humankind will, I'm sure, not last that long - and when we've gone, our various gods will have gone with us. The earth will most likely be well rid of both of us.
alan, cologne,
Why would anyone in their right mind say these things? Where in the Bible does it say that the Roman Catholic Church is the one true Church of Christ. Why does the Pope think his brand of Christianity is superior to others? If Jesus Christ were to come back tomorrow I am more than sure he would not want Roman Catholic, Catholic, Episcopalion, Protestant, Orthodox or any other offshoot of Christianity preaching to each other - I am sure he would want Christians to be TOGETHER under one banner (NOT ANY OF THE ABOVE!!). A force for good in the world. The Pope needs to rethink his strategy for Roman Catholic dominance. He is doing more harm than good.
Kathleen Black, Renfrewshire, SCOTLAND
Robin Castellanos of Texas, yes, of course, there can only be One God. Jesus founded a teaching society. To make sure it keeps on line with Him, He said Peter and successors are to be specially helped and looked to. He did not, of course promise the leaders would be free from sin. Some have done some of the awful things we see all the time throughout history. He said we mustn't nonetheless minimise sin and go in for cover ups. The Bible helps enormously and needs the interpretation given it by the protected society with the Pope at the head. Prayers.
Father Bryan Storey, Tintagel, UK
It is very unfortunate that Pope Benedict uses his authority to defame other Christian Churches. Did our Holy and ALMIGHTY God inform him that other Christian Churches lack essential elements and they are not proper churches? With all due respect, this is the most childish comment I've ever heard from a well respected head of a major Christian Church. It is anti-christian and pro-satan! Why? Because it will cause, strengthen and promote hatred among the Christians which Jesus Christ does not really love to happen among His people.
No wonder Christians keep on splitting and throwing stones among themselves because of the lack of essential elements within their annointed leaders in the first place. Satan is so powerful that he can deceive everyone who lack essential Christian elements.
I humbly ask the Pope Benedict to pray for all his Christians brothers and sisters rather than criticise them as he can be criticized consequently and in a more unfortunate way.
Kenneth, Suva, Fiji
The Bible can be interpreted many different ways to mean different things to different people. I am a European historian and have studied much of the religious wars and the reasoning of Martin Luther. Jesus started His teachings first by going on the road to preach the word of God and then through His disciples. The Catholic church is man-made, not Christ made. The sins that the Catholic church has committed through it's history would show that it's teachings are not of God. The pope's through out time would put many politicians too shame with their treachery. Why is not the pope out spreading the word of God the same way Christ and St. Peter did? They did not live in a lavish way the way the pope's have in the past to this day. The Catholic church is corrupt and has been for a millenium. I believe all religions have a validity to be here, what makes one more correct than the next. Hindus, Druids, Christians, Jews, who's to say that in the end we're not all praying to the same God?
Robin Castellanos, San Antonio, TX, USA
The document said that other Christian faiths âlack elements considered essential to the Catholic Churchâ.
I would like to thing the message of " Christ crucified" would be enough to unify the denominations. Maybe we should look at the things that we DO agree on. The church needs to spend less to battling with each other and take the Gospel to the Nations.
Matt Jenkins, Dresden, OH
Derek Smith of Brighton, look up the Apostles' Creed and tell us where you saw the claim that Jesus is the biological Son of the Father, please.
Father Bryan Storey, Tintagel, UK
Dorothy, a very good question to which the answer might well be yes. Since in the view of the head of your church is clearly no I'll leave you to come to your own conclusions about why he might see things differently. I think I understand that officially it is because he is chosen by god and thus infallible, maybe holding to that belief gives an insight into the character of the sort of person who might take the job.
Mark Wilson, Nottingham, England
isn't it the same God that we all worship , as a practising catholic i find these remarks very sad , surly the inportant thing is to worship the Almighty in what ever form .
Dorothy Rowan, Liverpool, UK
Further to Tom Hurst's query, where does it say in the bible that Mary was a virgin? Indeed, this wasn't made 'of faith' until around the middle of the19th century. I seem to remember that, to avoid the concept of original sin, Mary herself was said to have been born by an immaculate conception but it stopped there.
Not only that, where does Jesus say that he is the biological son of god? I can't find it. There are, of course, many 'our fathers' but it's a sort of generic handle and hardly the same thing. The first reference I know of is by Saul/Paul. All very odd. I await my confusion and ignorance being solved by the Tintagel scribe.
Where's a Viking when you need one?
Derek Smith, Brighton, UK
power corrupts....
Mark Wilson, Nottingham, England
When you consider the garments worn by the Pope and other officers of the Church, don't they strike you as being feminine in origin? I've long believed that St. Paul hijacked Christianity. If that gives you a clue, then pick up the ball and run with it.
Andrew Milner, Yokohama, Japan
Pope is wright to say the Roman catholic church is the Only Apostical Church. The protestants always say we catholioc worship Mother mary. Do u know that Mother mary's birth is a miracules Birth as Jesus . she is the Choosen one. Tell me you protestants talk so much of the Bible to confuse we catholic even you are confused .Tell me in which part of the Bible tells us the Birth of Mary as a Miracules Birth. Go read the Muslims Holy Book You will Find the answer That Mother mary is Born of the Holyspirit a special child like Jesus.
I challange the protestants to prove this Miracules Birth Wrong.
so the pope statments is true we are the only true church. you are made up of so many man made Denomination like private limited company .The Truth is the Truth as the pope stated.
Dr B. Anthony, George Town, singapore
I'm sure the Pope shares your appreciation of the Orthodox communities, Alan Pavelin of Chislehurst. he longs for unity as a true servant of the servants of the Lord.
Father Bryan Storey, Tintagel, UK
The Roman catholic church From the begning is the Mother Church it has under Gone Persecution by many so called denomination. Especially the protestant .They protest Luther protested against the Romancatholic church see now still protestants are still protesting . Denomination after Denomination arebeing made in the name of the Lord Jesus .if the Lutheran Church was perfect? why so many Denomination now its all like a private limited company . The Roman catholic church is the only Apostical Church Christ Jesus Said he will Build the faith on Peter the Rock Our Pope .The protestants say we catholic worship mother mary .
They dont have a proper Doctrine . So many versions of the Bible Made by them according to their Denomination.
Can they Tell us in which part of the Bible states How Mother mary was Born.? it clearly states . mother marys Birth is a Miracelous Birth like Jesus . pure and as jesus. so dont hide the truth .the catholic church is only church of christ.
Dr B. Anthony, George Town, singapore
As a Catholic, there is one aspect of the Pope's statement which worries me, namely his devaluing of the Orthodox Church as wounded because they do not accept the primacy of Rome. At the time of the Great Schism, whose immediate cause was the unilateral insertion by the Vatican of filioque into the creed, the authority of the Pope was significantly less than now, and if the Schism had not occurred it would almost certainly still be less than now. Therefore I maintain that the phrase "one true church" applies equally to the Orthodox as to the Catholic (an argument can also be made for the Anglican church, but that is mor dubious owing to its large Protestant element which denies certain teachings). So I remain a Catholic, but would urge the "magisterium" to stop downgrading the Orthodox.
Alan Pavelin, Chislehurst, UK
Tom Hurst of Alberta, Canada, have you forgotten the end of Acts? Peter was martyred in Rome and is buried under St. Peter's. It is very interesting how Our Lord commits St. John to His mother and St. John to her. She's a great help in the heavenly Kingdom. Please don't undermine her.
Father Bryan Storey, Tintagel, UK
There is no mention of a Roman church in the Bible. Its a usurped power. True Christianity was in England about the time our Master was destroyed on the cross. I see no reference to a worldly Church nor do I see where Peter the Apostle ever went to Rome. The first lesson in true faith is If you want to speak to the Father come through the Son. This is an individual relationship where each person is refered to as an individual person. If anything Revelations and the book of Daniel record something entirely different. Its rather like saying Sunday is the seventh day when we all know it is Saturday. The papal power changed that. Also show me where Mary was adored in the bible as Papal power worships her. Who is it that supports idolatry in the form of small icons and rosaries and such. If you check history The Babylonian mystery religion is live and well in Papal Rome. Check it out friends, and I am not saying Catholics are all doomed just somewhat deceived. Thank you Tom Hurst.
Tom Hurst, Ft.McMurray , Alberta Canada.
Eric of Charlotte, if you read the more than 300 references to Peter in the NT, it becomes quite clear that Peter was appointed the guide and leader. He's mentioned more than all the others put together and twice as many times as St. John who is mentioned over 100 times. Yet look at the circumstances and situations carefully. A convert to our Church told me his Protestant gatherings always skated around these things in discussions.
Father Bryan Storey, Tintagel, UK
The start of Catholisim was during the council of Nicene about 300AD. The council was a decree by the pagan emporer Constatine to provide a universal religion for Rome rule. Before the council, there were many forms of Christianity, some with pagan rituals. Early teachings were by word of mouth due to persecutions the early Christions endured. All early teaching were snubbed by Rome except for the one the council wanted to teach, the universal Christian church. I believe the Nicene council helped put Christianity on the "right path" since Christ's teaching may have been diluted by these other off shoots though the council may have not given us all the information about Christ's life and teachings. That being said, I believe the Nicene council might have been God's design to "straighten things out" but it does not mean that God does not like diversity in worship. Christians are reading from the same bibical page but may be signing a different hymm.
Larry, Chicago,
Where in the Bible does it say that the pope should be revered as the head of the Church?
Eric, Charlotte,
George Milcetich, can you seriously be comparing Luther to Francis of Assissi? Do you see he'd got it all right and the Catholic Church was totally wrong? Methinks, you've gone more than a bit too far.
Father Bryan Storey, Tintagel, UK
I can see the logic in blaming religion for all war and poverty, however i think everyone knows that religion is only used as an excuse for war and if it did not exist someyhing else would be used for a reason instead. religion brings alot of hope and encouragment to millions of people, it is a sahme that a few extremists know then ruin it for all
kiera, liverpool, uk
Khalid, there is a big difference. True to western values Christians of different denominations can say these things but they understand man errors and God is bigger than any man; including the pope. Also, true to western values, the world doesn't see Orthodox or Protestant Christians inciting riots and being detructive since this erroneous teaching isn't taken personally.
Christine, the Roman Church likes to appeal to the Early Church Fathers. Sadly, many Roman Church Christians fail to understand that their current church body wasn't defined until the Council of Trent in the late 16th century in reaction to the Reformation. Luther tried to do what Francis of Assisi did. Reform the church within and not cause a split. The 95 Theses were meant to stimulate a debate at the university. He was a professor. Unfortunately, the arrogance of the church hierarchy demanded obedience to their errors that were contrary to scripture. Scripture defines the church; not the pope. Out of characters
George Milcetich, Hollywood, MD
religion is total rubbish!
i hate religion for casuin loss of life and missery!
if religion wasnt here then niether would poverty, think of all that money wasted
lets put a stop to this and cut out religion for ever!
brian, newcastle, uk
Khalid Rahim of Scarborough, Canada, isn't that a bit extreme?
Father Bryan Storey, Tintagel, UK
What is the difference between the Pope's teaching and that of a radical Imam. The former is protected by western values while the later is condemned for his ethnic background. Both shut the doors to spiritual enhancement.
KHALID RAHIM, Scarborough, Canada
St. Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyons ( martyred 202 AD ), disciple of St. Polycarp, who was himself a disciple of St. John the Evangelist, had this to say '...we point to the tradtion of that very great and very ancient and universally known Church which was founded and established at Rome by the two glorious Apostles Peter and Paul: we point, I say, to the tradition which this Church has from the Apostles, and to her faith proclaimed to men which comes down to our time through the succession of her bishops, and so we put to shame all who assemble in unauthorized meetings. For with this Church, because of its superior authority, all must agree-that is the faithful everywhere-in communion with which Church the tradition of the Apostles has been always preserved by those who are everywhere'.
Christine, Wigan,
The British Christian is being crushed in the vice-like grip of two opposing forces: on one hand, rampant secular atheism and on the other, aggressive religious extremism. Each of these forces feeds on the other and they gain strength at the expense of the British Christian, squeezing him/her out and making him/her irrelevant.
What can the British Christian do to retain his/her identity and influence in the face of these irresistible forces?
Anglicanism is deeply divided.
The Evangelical movement is splintered and fragmented.
The only way the British Christian can act is to return to the Christian roots of British society which is the Universal (Catholic) Church.
Only by taking back their rightful place in the global family of the Catholic Church can British Christians retain any hope for the future. From this firm and steadfast foundation the British Christians can stand up and be counted and reclaim their cherished historical values in a society determined to destroy them.
PeterB, Lincoln,
Far more superstitions outside religion, Alan of Cologne. Irreligion is the breeding ground of it inside and outside worship of God. So, you close the door. I try to keep mine open. I find it more interesting and illuminating.
Father Bryan Storey, Tintagel, UK
After 660 comments isn't it time to close the debate and agree that without the unspeakable superstition known as religion we would all be far better off?
alan, cologne,
The interesting linguistic fact about the word "Catholic" is that it is of Greek origin: it means "universal". Not surprising, since the New Testament was written in Greek, and many modern scholars argue that Jesus actually preached in Greek, in the same way that modern Indian intellectuals and politicians still use English as a universal means of communication in India. When the Roman Empire succeeded the Greek Empire of Alexander, it was a long time before Latin eventually became the standard language and displaced Greek - except, of course, in the Orthodox community, which still uses Greek. There is nothing intrinsically sacred about Latin - but it is understandable that it has a special appeal to those who were brought up to use it as the language of worship in the Church of Rome.
Edmund Burke, Kingston upon Thames, England
Rina of Japan, nobody promotes God more than Mary, Mother of a Divine Son. Do you know the Pope's title 'Servant of God's servants'. Our Faith is full of rich paradox. To be great, we need vitally to be small in our own eyes through making God big and important.
Father Bryan Storey, Tintagel, UK
I agree to daryl of singapore. I just hope catholics just take off their pride and accept what is lying in front of them. Catholic Doctrine has definitely not abided the Word of God. And even if they can see it and read it in front of their faces , they just don't wanna see it . Escaping the TRUTH. And that's what pope benedict is doing. He just announces they are the only true church of Christ but their doctrine do not follow the teachings of Christ. Say it to Holy Mary Mother of God!haha! is there a mother of a God? whetever! Christianity has no other King of the Church but Jesus. A true church do not put a leader into a pedestal like the papacy do.
rina, japan,
To emphasise the need to be in union with the Pope is not being nasty. It's Biblical.
Father Bryan Storey, Tintagel, UK
My Catholic religion teaches and emphasizes tolerance and justice and compassion. I see no evidence of those beliefs in the document authorized by Pope Benedict. We're evidently not on the same page.
Margaret Pokusa, Alexandria, VA
Ok now is it as disterbing to others that the main claim to being correct is linage honestly guys if thats what makes you think your church is correct you are no smarter than the stupid racists who accert there correctness and rights to a country through linage, it may be that the pope is the direct next in command byu linage because he was the succcessor to peter(which is laughable any way ahow can you honestly be the successor to an apostil).
this says nothing about your teachings being maintained and being correct and to claim that your church is the one true church is even more laughable i cannot find in any bible where it quotes jesus saying now peter that you have created this church none other shall be as correct nore shall be a true church for that is a right i leave truly unto you for i am the son of god and i as the the son of god would know these events to happen and thus now am preventing them by this very statement, no what jesus says is make a church and teach other
Adam D, Sydney, Aus
Thank God there is someone in a Christian Church who stands for something.
W.S.Becket, Bangor, North Wales
If there are 30,000 protestant sects (and still counting) how can they rely on "Sola Scriptura"?
More like "Multipla Scriptura".
PeterB, Lincoln,
i am a protestant and i totally believe that i am a true christian. it doesnt matter what denomination you are as long as you believe that God is God, Jesus died for our sins, and if we accept him then we will go to heaven. i have friends that are protestant and catholic and believe me, the catholics that i know are extremely embarrassed and dont know why the pope said what he said.
besides, thousands of protestant missionaries have led people to Christ throughout the years.
So, yes, i think that the pope is wrong.
Laura, Dillon,
Some really nasty things being said here. There's so much happiness in Catholicism which can be abused like other organisations- for sure much less but with more publicity. The Pope has given a kindly Biblical statement of as Servant of God's servants.
Father Bryan Storey, Tintagel, uk
1054 AD was "The Great Schism". The Roman Catholic Church was split off from the "true church - EASTERN ORTHODOXY" and all other relgions are now a branch of this newly split belief system called The Roman Catholics. The Roman Catholics deviated from the original true teachings of the church. Rome drifted out of vital communication with her sister churches and delved into a new belief that one person should be in charge and other doctrinal changes began to take form in the Roman Catholic Church. She strayed from the original body of teachings confirmed by the sister body in the early Councils of Nicea. Eastern Orthodoxy maintains all early teachings of the original fathers (without deviation) and has the apostolic succesion history to prove herself as the one true church. We are humble christians which is not a quality in Pope Ratsinger. Is this a humble leader? 1st Commandment: "thou shalt not kill"
Irene Tocimak, State College, PA
Daryl, you speak of "Christians" and Catholics" as if you are speaking about Calvinists and Atheists. Catholics are Christians. Catholics belong the the oldest Christian tradition in the world. If a person is a Catholic they are - a priori - Christian. We are the original Christians.
ste, Hull, England
Why is everyone supposed to submit to the Pope? So that we can have unity? Why should we expect greater unity when the Roman Catholic Church itself is filled with all kinds of disunity. Most lay Catholics don't even believe faith in Christ is necessary for salvation. Vatican II says atheists can be saved. We're supposed to submit to that kind of nonsense? Let the Pope clean up his own Church before he points the finger at others. There are unlimited reasons as to why people have rejected papal authority. God has removed their candlestick, just like he did the Pharisees who once sat in Moses' seat. Innocent III imposed an interdict on all of England and France because he had squabbles with their kings. Other Popes burned or tortured people who tried to effect reform in the Church. The Councils of Florence and Vatican I condemned all non-Catholics. Pope John Paul II encouraged Catholics to pray with pagans for world peace. It's all proof that Popes don't merit our allegiance anymore.
Michael Flowers, Lakeland, FL
I don't see how there can be any reconciliation between the Christians and the Catholics. Realistically speaking,there can't be especially since we differ on so many doctrinally important concepts that pertain to True Christianity. Either the Christians are right or the Catholics are right and it would be as how God defines it as "separating the sheep from the goats" or " the wheat from the tares"
Some of the chief objections we have towards the catholics are the question of papal infallibility, the eucharist, the intercession of the saints, penance, works as necessary for salvation, the seven sacraments, purgatory, compulsory celibacy, the use of rosaries, the use of images in worship, tradition of equal importance to scripture,, etc..
As a Christian, I stand firm by my convictions of Sola Scriptura and have the common discerning ability as many of us do to read Scripture and be illuminated by its truths. Time will tell who are the true followers of Christ.
Daryl Tan, Singapore,
If more Roman Catholics would actually research and study the Reformation, they MIGHT understand why the Catholic church is SO FAR from what Christ commands us to do. You know, as a protestant, I have been "taking the high road" for so long.. letting R.C's say what they want in my face w/o saying anything or much back (because I truly believe it is pleasing to Christ), but as a human who sins daily (as we all do) it is getting harder and harder to listen to this CRAP!!!! NONE OF US deserve God's grace Hello..... it's GRACE!!!! And none of us who follow Christ as our savior (that's protestants and R.C.'s) is on "a higher plane" then the other. We are all EQUAL!!!!! FOr all you R.C's who believe your'e the ONE TRUE CHURCH (boy am I sick of that) what were all the churches that Paul preached to (Ephasus, Galatia, Corinth......) DUH!!!
Whew.... I feel somewhat better. Cuz I dare not talk like this to my mom ( who puts her alligiance to THE CHURCH over me, her own protestant daughter.
Suzy Morton, Kalamazoo, Mi
I''m not a believer in God, i would rather define myself a doubtful in God. I'm just disappointed by you all guys! The Pope is talking about theology and you talk for stereotipes. IS anybody of you knowing the difference between "church", "ecclesiastic community", "religious community"... PLease, let's talk only about things we know and we are able to talk about!
Mauro, Utrecht, The Netherlands
I think the Vatican view must be seen to be essentally true. What Benedict seems to miss, however, is that if the people who are Christians are thus divided, then the Body is incomplete, and neither can Catholicism be a full and true church - it is also "defective".
Ecumenism is more fundamental than either traditionalists or radicals seem to percieve, the credibility of anyone who claims to belong to the Church of Christ is surely taxed by the current divisions.
What's needed is a deeply humble rapprochement from all sides. I think there have been great efforts to do just that, but then people trip and lose sight of their humility in their attachment to their party values. Human weakness.
With Vatican II the rhetoric of division was gently parked for a while and open dialogue welcomed.
The current pope, in his passion to be orthodox and authentic may have missed a greater truth and stated a lesser one too strongly and is danger of plucking good wheat as he picks the darnel.
Adrienne O'Toole, Wallasey, UK
What the Catholic Church has said in the document is nothing new. The Church has been teaching it since its foundation 2000 years ago. King Henry VIII and Luther themselves accepted that teaching. Then, arbitrarily, they changed their opinion. We need to ask the Holy Spirit to enlighten us to know the whole truth and accept it humbly.
Joe Zammit, Paola, Malta
It must come as a great relief to non-Catholics to learn from the Vatican that they are not part of âthe one true Churchâ and as such have no need to share with Roman Catholics the burden of guilt over the Inquisition, anti-semitism, the Mafia, the IRA, non-opposition to Hitler and Mussolini, oppression of women, child abuse and the criminal activities of P2 and the Vatican Bank.
Charles Gidley Wheeler, Kempsford, UK
Ecumenism? Arma-Cistere or Arma-Geddon, that is the question God eventually asks in Elijah.
Ian , London SE8,
I'm sure a document detailed the failures of the Catholic Church would be far longer than 16 pages. Personally as a fully practicing agnostic I have been quite happy to attend a catholic church, be married in one , and have my children baptised in one. But to be frank it seems the Catholic Church is more interested in power than in following the words of Jesus (a very old observation I'm sure). Shame on the Pope.
Jason White, Paris,
Thank you for speakng the truth, Lisa, Boston, USA
Igor, Ljubljana, Slovenia
I'm a practicing Catholic and I am embarassed by what is happening with the priests in the USA and by our power-hungry pope. The pope would be better served apologizing for the sins of its priests than to put out doctrine which is nonecumenical. In my opinion our pope is a lot like having Bush for President...I didn't vote for him and I think his direction is confused but I'm stuck with him. It makes me question why I'm still a Catholic. Fortunately, the priest in our church is really a good person and reaches out to all people, telling us to decide now if we want to be saved, and if so, to live our lives in prayer with God and serving God. I think our priest has the right idea and the pope could learn a few things from him since he leads by example and is very humble.
Carol, Orlando, USA
Interesting comment from somone who was, I believe, in the Hitler Youth.
JP, Winchester,
Where on earth did James Froelich get the idea that the English tried to wipe out all the Catholics in England and Ireland (as if I didn't know!)? And to use the claim that he is being historically honest when he says this is simply to beggar belief. This is the kind of display of ignorance that makes me despair that non-believing people of intellect will ever take Christians seriously. It is also a rather depressing indication of the kind of untruths that the Roman Church has been putting about for centuries. If only RCs would ask for some evidence now and then. The "Holy" Father is not holy James, He is just a politician. Nor is there any shortage of people who know just as much about the Bible as he does but who disgree with him nevertheless.
Tam Earl-Aine, Cheltenham,
This is blatant exclusion. If you are a Christian you should be asking yourself "is this what Jesus intended, what He would have wanted?" Your answer should be self-enlightening.
james mercer, preston,
It strikes me from reading some of the protestant and RC posts here that the major issue taken by both denominations is where to find one's authority on spiritual matters of the Christian church.
Many of the RC posts have claimed (not unfairly) that Jesus gave authority to the apostles, the founders of "the church" to teach and to guide those who would seek to follow Jesus' teachings. These posts then subsequently add that church tradition has been inherited from the apostles along with the scriptures, which is undoubtedly, to my mind true.
I take issue with the fact (speaking as an evangelical Christian) that these traditions are of equal primacy to scripture, because tradition has been handed down through many years of church hierarchy, whereas we can trace almost all of scripture back to manuscripts written in the first two centuries of Christian thought. Thus it appears to me as if church tradition, changeable as it has clearly been, cannot be equal to a Bible that can be traced
Nick, Bradford, UK
There's only one true church,"The Body of Christ" made up of true believers. Jesus knows who they are and they know who they are.! These are the ones's He is coming back to get soon; if you are not sure if you are one of them, you are in trouble and need to make a decision. Stop reading, start praying, get right with God, ask Him to come into your heart and life now, and be saved. When you stand before God, it's just you and Him; no man can help you...only Jesus.
GB, Marlton, NJ
Yes, David Donaldson of Renfrewshire, imagine no religion, no schools, no hospitals, no soup kitchens, no marriages, no rules, no laws, no orphanages, no prisons, no hospices, no forgiveness, no repentance, no social securities, anyone can do anything to anyone at any time and no one cares. Try hard to picture this in your head? Would you want to live??
Virginia, Brisbane, Australia
In the USA some two million cases of child abuse were reported in the last years, very few went into courts. From that total amount in accordance with accurate statistics, almost 60 per cent are young boys or girls abused by members of their own family,. Some other 20 per cent they were attacked by classmates, professors, and teachers and from their schools, and around 15 per cent by strangers, mostly known pederasts, with a police file in most cases. So you have less than 5 per cent for others. When I started a researched in numerous publications or court records, I find out that no more than 3 per cent of the cases you have a Catholic priest, a protestant minister, or from any other religious denomination who were involved or are currently involved in these awful cases. So my conclusion is many people like are condemning the whole Catholic Church as a consequence of your own ignorance, or because you hate the Church which is quite common in these days and especial amongst agnostics.
wetzvonken, Buenos Aires, Argentina
Surely faith is individual and each one of us knows what we believe in (perhaps aided by our family upbringing and tempered by our life experiences) and therefore do not accept that the Pope has the monopoly on Belief or choice of church or other venue in which to worship in fact a lot of people prefer to practice their own religion alone still providing Christian help to those who need it. Perhaps those on high will someday realise what people require to survive on a day to day basis. There are many in need from those in Old Peoples Homes at home to those desperate in Africa can we not focus on practical help for them now before we even think about other future problems. Let's sort out our situation first then our childrens, preferably sooner rather than later. Put Global warming on a Low then Medium then High heat .
George Gibson, Saltash, England
We meet the first protestants in John 6:66 (KJV if ye liketh)
'From that time many of his disciples went back,
and walked no more with him.'
(The only 666 in the gospels)
I suggest you read from verse 47 on and pray the Holy Spirit to guide.
Note, Our Lord does not go after them
("Just kidding lads, speaking symbolically don't you know")
.....He lets them go.
"Where the Catholic church is, there is Jesus Christ."
St. Ignatius Bishop of Antioch 105 AD,
"Where there is Peter, there is the Church."
St. Ambrose Bishop of Milan in the 4th century
Francis, Vancouver,
in the wide words of albus dumbledore - soon we will have to choose between what is wright and what is easy.
juicydangler, shropshire, mintyland
This coming from a man who heads a church that diddles the altar boys and has a priesthood rampant with homosexuals.
I'm not Catholic, and I may be out of line for saying this, but I don't think Jesus would approve.
What do you think?
Swede, Priest on Altar Boy, Rome
"If it isnât Roman Catholic then itâs not a proper Church, Pope tells Christians"
If i had owned an ice-cream shop, of course i'd tell the world that my ice-cream's were properly made and the best around.
Mohammed, London, UK
Hello! Look deeper! This is only the beginning. There are lots more coming. Therefore you have to learn to walk with the footmen before you can run with the horsemen. Trust the ONE true and living God and He will direct your paths.
Carlene, George Town ,
Hello! Look deeper! This is only the beginning. There are lots more coming. Therefore you have to learn to walk with the footmen before you can run with the horsemen. Trust the ONE true and living God and He will direct your paths.
Carlene, George Town ,
I agree with Ed Findlay completely, although I am a fully signed-up practicing Roman Catholic. The RC Church is my guardian of absolutist morality (although I love drinking tea, The CofE can't really function this way for me). This doesn't mean that I don't occasionally dismiss the odd papal decree about Protestants/Jews/Muslims 'doomed to Hell' as claptrap however, because Jesus would not agree. It's just vital not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Incidentally, isn't this a non-story? Of course the head of the RC is going to say that his Church is the one true way - that's part of his job!
Dave Burke, Manchester, UK
i think the Pope has read the bible. in fact i think he could match anyone versre for verse, according to helaire belloc all wars are religious in nature. the revelutionaries during the reformation committed as many brutal murders as the catholics. let us not forget that the english tried to wipe out all catholics in britian and ireland. to be historically honest it cuts both ways. and while we are on history you can thak the catholic church for saving europe from the heresy of the muslim faith. yes they are a heresy from the true faith and they wanted nothing more then to dominate all your ancestors. history is a wonderful subject.
james froelich, mandan, nd, usa
Why do you care our popes says? you don't belive in the catholic ways so why should it bother you what our holy father says? If some protestant said the catholic church is not a church I would not care but I think you people are not sure about your saw call church so you strike back with anger and hatefull messeges and you people call your self christians?
Rocco, Milan,
Wake up people! Wake up Catholic Church! Jesus and his apostles were all Jewish!! If anyone has a legitimate path directly to Jesus it is the Jews! So much for the "true church". And oh, by the way, Jesus did not establish a "church." First and foremost he was a Jew and preached to a Jewish audience. The Catholic church has misrepresented the teachings and twisted the words of the Jewish Messiah--Yeshua! What a step backward for ecumenical dialog between the different faiths. The RCC should focus more on cleaning up their sins of child molestation, greed, and power than taking the ego-manical stance that they have a monopoly on salvation. There are many pathways to God to those who seek the truth.
Lisa, Boston, USA
Jesus died on the cross for the forgiveness of the sins of all men and women. We can be saved from eternal damnation because of this gift of unconditional Grace and everlasting Salvation. All good works and other Christian practices, offered through organized churches of Christian faith, do NOT help us to obtain additional salvation or richer eternal life possibilities with our God. Organized, Christ-centered worship and study of God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit can be helpful in assisting us to more positive servants for our Lord while on this earth. No interventions by any Christian official, either elected or self-appointed, is necessary to assure us of God's gift of Grace to us. Neither the Pope or any other recognized official of any Christian church should place themselves in a position to dictate who is blessed/saved or not blessed/saved by our God. Each human individual has the God-given opportunity to accept or reject salvation/eternal life which has been freely offered.
Ed, Findlay, Ohio
What all these Catholics are so quick to forget is that their church is merely a sect that broke away from Eastern Orthodoxy, just as Protestantism broke-off from Catholicism. Catholics: your "church" does not go back to the apostles - so just imbibe this fact and get over it.
Jon Castro, Guildford,
Of course the Pope is right - If you are a devout Catholic. If you are of any other faith then the Pope is wrong, and it is ONLY your own faith that is right. Isn't this, precisely, what is wrong with the world today. Spiritual leaders should be working towards harmonisation of world cultures, not pontificating on their own right to religious doctrine against all others in the world. Perhaps we may see the Inquisition resurrected once more.
One particular point that I am pleased about, this particular statement reinforces my belief in the divisiveness that is the only offering that religion has to contribute.
As an atheist I firmly believe in the power of people to create good in this world. If the majority of the population feel the need to belong to a religious âgroupâ in order to accomplish that, then I support and respect their views. What I detest is a supposedly intelligent leader of one of the largest religious sects in the world, denigrating other peoplesâ belief.
Michael Nye, Colnbrook, Slough, UK
Martin Luther and other leaders of the Protestant Reformation knew what the Scriptures really say: That Jesus said we are to call no man our spiritual "Father" (Matt. 23:9), that we have one priest and mediator before God--Christ (Heb. 4: 14-16), that only Christ--not Mary, the saints, or priests--makes intercession for us (Heb. 7:25), and that Christ's atonement covers all sin (Heb. 8:12), there being no difference between mortal and venial sins in Scripture. Furthermore, we are to confess sins directly to God (1 John 1:9) and only God can forgive (Mark 2:7). Scripture contains no doctrine of Purgatory, Indulgences, Limbo, Penance, etc. Considering that the Pope subscribes to all of these doctrines, should we listen to anything he says? The Pope, infallible? Hardly! Only God's word is infallible. Men who think they are and who would add or take away from God's word commit blasphemy and will not attain eternal life (Rev. 22:19). Listen to God and forget everything else!
Candy Pouliot, Canastota, USA/NY
This just confirms what I already knew,that the Catholic chuech is not christian.It is just another cult,making a saviour out of their church rather than jesus christ.
There were churches before the apostate Catholic church.
Which by the way were persecuted fiercely by the popes.
I think the pope would do that again,if he thought he could get away with it.
Howard Cox, crescent city, u.s.a. fl.
As one who is a product of a cross-sectarian marriage and was baptized a Catholic, my father's religion, then put through the Catholic educational mill, I cannot say that the candid though offensive pronouncements of this document issuing from the current papacy and its doctrinal watchdog is at all surprising: this has simply been the RC line since the Reformation. The papacy will simply not entertain the legitimacy or validity of any other form of Christianity that is not under Rome's dominion; nor indeed, will it concede the value or worth of any non-Christian religion, e.g. Buddhism. Personally, this former Catholic thinks that the Protestant Reformation was the best thing that could have happened to the Western world and most of the freedoms we now enjoy were born of it. Full marks to the Rev David Phillips for his statement on the Vatican's "lust for power" and his call for the papacy to renounce "its errors and pretensions". He might well have added its arrant hypocrisy.
Paul, Sydney, Australia
Some would say that all received belief systems, such as christianity, islam, or the ancient delusion of judaism, are designed as mass control systems of humanity. Others might say that Constantine's implemented control system - the Roman church and salvationism through the executed Nazarene - has engendered much violence and inhuman behaviour in this world. And still others might reflect that what Ratzinger stands for is not so different from the aryan christian fundamentalism of Hitler's political party. I would go further, and say that religion is a cancer invading the human psyche. It is what we do that matters, not what we subscribe to or delude ourselves with.
Tony Gold, Chiang Mai, Thailand
Sorry, the Bible says the true Church are those who have the testimony of JESUS CHRIST and keep the Commandments of GOD, no mention of a Pope here! Oh and that includes the 7th Day Sabbath which your church has admitted in changing, Christ never changed it, in fact, the 7th Day Sabbath is a Sign between Christ and His people, and only Jesus is to be called FATHER, no one else, and oh yeah, we don't need a priest to go to Jesus is our Savour, King, and Priest. You aren't the true church, or my father, only Jesus Christ.
Diane , St. Louis, Missouri
As usual, most of the comments generate heat but shed little light.
Regardless of what the Pope said the same retinue of faith bashers would spout on, sporting their total ignorance about complex theological issues.
Naturally the 'discourse' has to rake over the crusades, the inquisition, clerical child abuse and the nazis. Someone soon will find a link between the Vatican and Global warming. Throw in a few lines from the Bible to support your tirade or a bit of pop psychology and hey presto another little Dawkins clone is born. It is astounding how juvenile, and frankly uneducated, most comments have been. The relative anonymity of email gives people the courage to write comments that they would be embarrassed to repeat in front a crowd.
Mark D, Dublin,
The Roman Catholic church Hierachy are just like the Pharisees mentioned in the Bible ,the very ones that Jesus called a brood of vipers.,Hypocrites Nothing has changed...
The Vatican is a huge state built on greed and lust for power and anyone who disagrees with their warped teaching is persecuted. The papacy is not biblical. How dare they say that true bible believing Christians are not part of the Church.
Tony, Dublin, Ireland
The truth is always provocative and challenging. The truth will also set you free and will bring you into full communion with Christ. Clearly Christ founded His Church on the 12 Apostles making them the authentic leaders of the Church on earth. The laying on of hands by these 12 Apostles and their successors (the authentic making of bishops and priests) makes the Catholic Church the authentic Church of Christ through the ages. The Church of England, for example, was founded so that one man, Henry VIII, could divorce or kill his wives. Full communion with Christ means accepting Christâs authority in your life which includes accepting the apostolic authority which Christ gave the 12 Apostles and their authentic successors
Chris Mason, Cheltenham, UK
Personally, I'm happy that Ratz has articulated his beliefs so unequivocally as it underlines why the pursuit of 'ecumenism' is so fatally flawed! The reason why Luther and others left the institution HAVE NOT CHANGED; the R.C. is SCRIPTURALLY UNSOUND as well as HISTORICALLY INACCURATE in it's claims.
It's amazing how a refusal to study has led to the mix-up that RC's rely on to believe that Peter was ever the 'rock' on which GOD would found his Church!! Ignoring his temporary instability, the point is that IT WAS THE REVELATION OF THE NATURE OF CHRIST THAT PROVIDES THE LEGITIMACY OF HIS DOCTRINE and therefore the founding of the Church.
Apostle Paul had a MUCH GREATER role in espousing, training and protecting Biblical truth AND WROTE HALF THE NEW TESTAMENT!
Furthermore, the Roman institution did not come into existence until 300 AD and was an attempt to marry Christian and pagan beliefs as social 'glue' to hold the Roman Empire together! ONLY CHRIST SAVES- NOT Mary/'saints'/ RATZ
Michael, london,
Roger, from wales, your comment about the invention of religion is interesting. Are you denying the existence of God? The whole point of all these different religions is so people will have ideas such as yours and stay away as you say 'ditch' religion. I agree there are man made religions. But there is only one God. And that God is not separate from his creations and got involved with is creation, who are we to deny it. You can but it only hurts you not God. Take care.
I am Orthodox Tewadedo ('Made One'). Obviously as my fathers disagreed with the Catholic claim of supremacy and other doctrines I follow in their steps and disagree. But please lets understand that denying a thing does not make it go away. Ditching is not the answer...
Matiwos, Alexandria, USA
As a Catholic, when we attend Mass it is a Profession of Faith, The Nicens Creed, which we read out loud..At the end of the creed we state "We believe in the one holy Catholic and apostolic Church"..Now the Nicens Creed was composed by the Council of Nicea in 325 AD, and this Creed has been used for hundreds of years.. This is not a new statement at all..
Annmarie, Massey , Canada
Sorry to sound smug, but it is just this sort of thing that explains and gives a reason for the Church of England.
Roman Catholicism=Microsoft
Pope=Bill Gates
Matthew, Sacramento, CA
Rommel in the Philippines,
Get real, look at your birth rate compared with other Asean countries. It is the poor of the Philippines who keep on having six or more children who are destined themselves to be poor because their parents can not afford to send them to college and there are no jobs for those children because the birth rate outstrips the rate at which new jobs can be produced. Dream on fool. Your president kowtows to Mr. Pope on contraception issues even though she herself, being more educated than the Pope, has been ligated. If you want to be more enlightened Rommel then pressure your leaders to promote contraception so that your fellow Filipinos can rise out of Poverty.
Roger, Baguio City, Philippines
As one who is a product of a cross-sectarian marriage and was baptized a Catholic, my father's religion, then put through the Catholic educational mill, I cannot say that the candid though offensive pronouncements of this document issuing from the current papacy and its doctrinal watchdog is at all surprising: this has simply been the RC line since the Reformation. The papacy will simply not entertain the legitimacy or validity of any other form of Christianity that is not under Rome's dominion; nor indeed, will it concede the value or worth of any non-Christian religion, e.g. Buddhism. Personally, this former Catholic thinks that the Protestant Reformation was the best thing that could have happened to the Western world and most of the freedoms we now enjoy were born of it. Full marks to the Rev David Phillips in his statement on the Vatican's "lust for power" and his call for the papacy to renounce "its errors and pretensions". He might well have added its arrant hypocrisy.
Paul, Sydney, Australia
Jeanie Bethel, I just want to highlight that if you had made these kind of remarks to other religions such as Islam you would have been given a Fatwa straight away.
That is polemical, I understand, nevertheless it is important that it be stressed.
Besides, there's a profound ignorance over the Pope's undertakings: the radical-chic nichilism and rejection of ours roots is a crucial point in the understanding development of our society. Values have to be conveyed in some way: I refer to family, solidarit but also to freedom and autonomy.
Briefly, a last consideration, it is neither positive nor negative but surely an important sign that so many people felt the emotional urge to comment on this article.
Mario, Palermo, Italy
Yeah because the world was made in 7 days in the past 60,000 years, man was there from the start and dinosaurs.... didn't exist? Are a test of resolve? Get real. This attitude helps nothing and no-one.
Ben, York,
There is a clear distinction:
the Catholic Church believes the Catholic Church is the true Church and the Anglican Church believes that the Anglican Church isn't the true Church.
That's why they are so offended.
Peter Weatherby, Stoke-on-Trent, UK
I was raised catholic , but as years went by , I notice that the catholic church teachings and doctrines were not really biblical. The church was getting away from the bible because the influence of mans teaching not by god. Its like the time jesus was on earth proclaiming his kingdom, the pharisees were so rapped up in their tradition and rituals and more worried about pleasing man rather than god, they didn't even recognize the son fo god-JESUS. One of catholic teaching is you can pray and worship to mary to reach our father. But if read 1 timothy 2:5 for there is one god and one mediator between god and men, the man christ jesus who gave himself as a ransom for all men. I left the cahtolic church and now I'm in a bible believing church. There is so many false teachings in the cathloic church. If you use common sense and research the bible on your own you will see the false doctrine.
Eric, honesdale, pa
Jesus said:
Matt 23:9
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
(KJV) So why do the so called perfect ones say to call them Father?
Paul taught us:
1 Tim 4:3
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
(KJV)
They forbid the "fathers" to marry so again they teach the opposite of the followers of Christ. The Pope is a sick sick person who thinks he is the next thing to God when he is next to Satan.
HF Chamberlin, Asheboro, NC/ USA
"It does not like many of the Protestant Churches bow to popular demand" - Samuel
Excuse me? When did Mary become Holy? the early 20th century and why was that? Due to POPULAR DEMAND! Although that popular belief had been around since about 500AD. THE CATHOLIC CHURCH JUST TAKES MORE TIME TO SWAY TO POPULAR BELIEF SO THEY CAN CLAIM IT'S NOT, IN FACT, DUE TO POPULAR BELIEF. They didn't even accept the world was officially round until about 30 years ago! They still believe the Earth is the center of the universe! The bible was written by man and so has been edited by man as all other Holy books have been. Also, the Catholic church is the baby of the 3 oldest religions Judaism, Islam and Christianity. The fact is that all 3 believe in one true God, they just ask you to practice your faith in a different manner. In closing, it may not be for another 1400 years but they will okay contraception and abortion, if their still around, Armageddon will be a bit over due by then...
Graeme, Edinburgh,
andrew, would you say the christian church of Luther's time was fine? Do you not for one second believe that most of what Luther said about buying indulgencies and corruption in the church were true?
witch burning and spanish inquisition anyone?
the church needed reformation.
sandy, london, uk
Protestantism was the beginning of true degeneracy and corruption in the world. Sad, really. An awful lot of heretics and well-meaning types (secularists, 'humanists' etc) will be getting a nasty surprise when they cross to the other side.
Simon Smith, London,
According to the Word of God (Bible) the only way to enter into Heaven is through Jesus Christ the Savior of all mankind. Any other way is false. When you listen to any other way YOU are choosing seperation from God for eternity.
Our body is the Temple of the Holy Spirit according to the Word.
We got to church to be with believers in Jesus and to sing worship songs to the Lord. We can do this at home too but i like to be with believers a few times a week. It is only natural.
The catholic church is not the way to Salvation and you can tell that to the Pope himself. I would if i had his email.
Carol, Keller,
It is high time the catholic church stopped dictating their views on the masses. If someone wants to believe in a god then that is their business and no one elses. The pope is a dictator, He is terrifying some of his followers into believing everything is a sin. The only sinner is himself. He has never married and seems to think he can dictate to women regarding contraception and is causing great suffering. How dare he? when the catholic church, and no doubt some others, have a reputation for child abuse! All religions treat women as some by product and it is time they got some sense. Religion should not be taught in schools because it causes untold suffering, in wars, and torture by the extremists. But the old saying ' Give me a chlld till he/she is 7 and I will give you the man', has never been more true. Some god who lets little african children suffer, what have they got to worship about? I would never again let the catholic church dictate to me, or my family.
Alicia, Blackpool, uk
It's always nice when a German standing on a balcony declares that his race/faith is superior to all others ...
Richard Roberts, Ridgewood, New Jersey
Blessings and peace be upon my brother and
sister Christians, let us not be troubled by this
act of the Pope! Many lost children are out there
and are confused by what they have been raised
to think by "men" and are unaware of the Truth
given by the word of God!
let us also remeber that the "Catholic" church
is not the mother of the Bible, but God is the
Father who inspired it's writers.
also remember Only Christ can give the gift of
Salvation. Let us study the word of God and
pray for all who are lost! Soon the Foam of
Rome will clear away to reveal the living water
of Christ.
Brother and sister Christians rejoice the
heavenly father will clear the storm!
Be patient and wait on the Lord. Amen!
Ruben, LA, USA
I think all of the powers of reason and logic are explicitly clear! The very moment two denominations disagree on a single solitary particle of faith, then we have a scientific, irrefutable fact - ONE of them is not the true Church, established by Christ Himself.
Wayne Paul, Edmonton, Canada
At every Mass Catholics profess their faith, which includes the line:
"We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church"
If you do not believe that your religion is the one true faith or if you believe that all religions are the same then why would you be a member of that church? - I say that for all religions and churches.
If the Pope, the leader of the Roman church, says that the Catholic church is the one true church, it shows conviction in what he represents - I don't know why people are so shocked or indignant!
Catherine, Kildare, Ireland
Won't Pope Benedict be surprised when he comes before God and God says "I don't know you!" and the Pope responds "But I was your faithful servant that lead your Chruch." Then God pauses and responds, "Oh, thats right, you are the guy that thought you knew truth! You just didn't get it! You were too wrapped up in trying to make everyone follow you instead of ME! Sorry, I don't know you!"
I am discussed by the Popes comments. God tried making things clear through Jesus. But obviously our Pope is missing the key to salvation!! Maybe he needs to reread the gospels. It is very clear what the key to salvation is . . . and it has NOTHING to do with what organized religion you belong to or participate in . . .
The good ol' boys club is at it again . . . my worry is how many will actually buy into these ideas . . .
"Father, forgive them for they know not what they are saying!"
Maria, Downers Grove, Illinois USA
Here we go again! My religion is better than your religion! All based on superstition, and the desire to control the masses. All those years of study and he hasnât learnt to live and let live. Unfortunately, there are plenty of sheep willing to follow this shepherd.
Pete, Telford,
I am a practising Catholic and very much enjoy being part of the Catholic Church, but I deeply respect all other Christian traditions. I know and find I have a great deal in common with a range of believers from different traditions; we simply regard each other as Christians whenever we meet. My Catholic faith shapes my life, but I recognise that the history of the Catholic Church is not unblemished. I would prefer people to find their own path to God in the tradition in which they are most comfortable - whether that is Catholic or one of the Reformation churches and movements.
Jonathan, London,
So the protestant will be the next Serbs.
Zoran D., Detroit, USA/MI
As neither a Catholic nor a Protestant, but rather an adherent of a non-Christian religion, it is utterly amazing to me that in the 21st century, after all the wars fought over religion and all the millions killed, even today people are still arguing about whose God is better and whose church is true!! As an outsider looking it, it boggles the mind!
Gloria, Freehold, New Jersey, USA
I think most of us will shrug their shoulders and carry on living a life unconcerned with such trivial matters...
David, London, UK
The Church of Jesus Christ is not a 'physical' place of meeting or a 'man-made labelled' organization.
The head of the true church is Jesus Christ. To transfer this position to any other false god(s), including ALL MEN and WOMEN, is an abomination and simply, EVIL.
The True church of Jesus Christ is that group of believers that have accepted Jesus as their Saviour and have accep