We've made some changes
to The Sunday Times
On June 2, 2000, John Humphrys and his girlfriend Valerie Sanderson had a son, Owen. Humphrys was 56. He had two older children – they are now 40 and 38 – but the arrival of another child so late in life came as a shock.
“Men have a postnatal state too,” he says, “particularly much older men like me. You enter this really vulnerable state . . . you expect it in your twenties, it’s part of the process, the normal process, but I was much older. All your attention is focused on this new human. It’s an incredibly powerful effect.”
Two years later Humphrys was at an awards ceremony. “It was at a posh London hotel and I was due to present an award. They showed this film about kids suffering from whatever and I started blubbing. I never do that. Having a child late in life exposes you in a way you thought you’d moved beyond.”
On September 1 2004 Chechen terrorists seized a school in Beslan in Russia. On September 3 the siege ended in a shootout in the course of which 186 children died. Humphrys, without consulting his editor on Radio 4’s Today programme, called the office of the Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams, and asked him to come on the programme the next day to discuss this horror. Williams agreed.
“I’d never before spontaneously picked up the phone like that. Luckily the editor said yes. It was not about getting the story. Mostly I really wanted to know what he would make of this.”
As a journalist, Humphrys has observed and discussed many aspects of life in the human slaughterhouse. But, because of Owen, Beslan was different.
He was brought up in a terraced house in Splott in Cardiff, the son of a French polisher and a hairdresser. He never could work out his father’s views on religion, but his mother took him to church regularly. He absorbed the language of the Bible and the Book of Common Prayer, but he never found faith. In time this became a sort of almost atheism.
He didn’t believe but he prayed.
“I was – am – dissatisfied with my failure to come to any specific conclusions. I know how pathetic and lame this sounds and I am embarrassed by it but I continued praying. I’ve prayed ever since I was a child and I continued to do so but I was increasingly puzzled by it.”
Owen, Beslan and his own religious ambivalence thus converged on the Williams interview. But it didn’t work. Humphrys was not satisfied with the answers to what was the oldest and most painful religious question of all: how can a good God permit such evil? So he then put together radio series of three interviews – with Williams, Jonathan Sacks, the Chief Rabbi, and Professor Tariq Ramadan, a Muslim scholar. It was called Humphrys in Search of God, though, as one wit pointed out, it might just as well have been called God in Search of Humphrys. Neither search was successful. Again he was unpersuaded.
“The interviews left me back where I started – well, rather further back as they had spectacularly failed to satisfy me on any intellectual level. Their arguments did not stack up. In the end they did concede you had to believe first. This has always been a problem for me. Faith is faith. If you have to satisfy the intellectual argument, then it’s not faith.” There was a huge response – “sackfuls of letters” – and a publisher asked him to turn the interviews into a book. He was reluctant but agreed to do it on the basis that it would simply consist of transcriptions. But then he started reading the new wave of militant atheists – Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, Michael Onfray and Christopher Hitchens – and he lost his temper.
“Perhaps it was a mistake to read one after the other, to gorge myself, but it was the unfairness of it all. I thought they’d no right to do that . . . I was surprised how offended I was by their attack on people who believe, but it was personal.”
He felt it was “grotesque for clever people like Dawkins” to present themselves as some kind of martyrs for the atheist cause.
“Nobody is denying them their atheism and nobody has done for a very long time in this country. I doubt whether any of Dawkins’s immediate relatives have been burnt at the stake. Hitchens presents religion as not just wrongheaded but as something so dangerous it must be eradicated. And then they say even these people who profess to be believers actually know it’s not true. How dare they? That’s unacceptable. I think it’s dishonest.”
The book was no longer to be mere transcripts, it was to be a very personal account of the spiritual predicament in which Humphrys found himself.
“What you believe comes down in the end to what’s inside you so it has to be personal. I don’t see how you can do it otherwise.” He was a praying atheist for whom the arguments of the religious patriarchs had failed miserably but also for whom the savagery of the opponents of religion were manifestly unjust. The truth was, of course, that he was profoundly uneasy. He couldn’t bear the uncertainty. He wanted to do something about it.
To understand this you have to understand two things about the man – he is staggeringly, perhaps neurotically, energetic and he didn’t go to university. His energy is beyond belief. Sparks seem to fly off him. He talks incessantly, questioning himself and anybody who happens to be in the room. As we spoke, he boiled beetroot and potatoes and made me sample raw organic carrot – “That’s a proper carrot!” The latter half of my recordings are partially inaudible due to loud crunching noises. The energy meant that the one thing he couldn’t do when confronted with his predicament was let it be.
Anybody who studied almost any nonscientific subject at university would step back from the problem of evil and the existence of God. It is a sea infested by leviathans from Augustine and Aquinas down to Luther and Kant. The whole of western culture floats unsteadily on this sea. But Humphrys, the nation’s grinning, yapping, undereducated terrier, just dived in. And the amazing things is, when he’d wet everybody by shaking off the water, he came out with Kant in his mouth.
“You do know,” I say to him, “that with this book you’ve done Kant?”
“I know,” he cries, “somebody else told me that! And they told me I must under no circumstances read any Kant.”
Immanuel Kant, perhaps the greatest philosopher of the modern era, did not believe any of the proofs of the existence of God. But he was a believer and his evidence was the “moral sense within” – conscience. That is exactly what Humphrys concludes.
He tells, for example, the stories of Lisa Potts and Irena Sendler. At the age of 18 Potts defended her infants’ class from a madman with a machete, sustaining appalling injuries. Sendler smuggled 2,500 Jewish children out of Nazi-occupied Poland. She was caught by the Gestapo but freed by partisans. At the age of 97 she said: “I continue to have pangs of conscience that I did so little.” Such stories, Humphrys thinks, undermine the materialistic account of the world.
“As for me,” he writes, “it is difficult to understand the existence of conscience without accepting the existence of something beyond ourselves.”
And so no, having been less inclined to belief after the interviews, he finds himself more inclined after the book. He’s still not there, of course, but his determination to speak out against the posturing of the militant atheists has given him back the role with which he feels most comfortable – a praying, failed atheist.
Only Humphrys could do all this, of course. He is a unique figure in national life. He shrugs and says it’s just because he’s been on the Today show for longer than anybody else. But the truth is there is something special about this man. He is the opinionator, the cause of opinions in others. With his jaunty, commonsensical manner and his determination to unearth every badger from every burrow, he lures people into debates – about the world certainly, but also about himself. I’ve had more discussions about the meaning of Humphrys than I care to remember. Last week he was even in the thick of it because of his holiday home – it’s in the Peloponnese, the place where Greece has been burning.
He is self-deprecating about all this – “I’m a hack, that’s it really, and I do feel slightly guilty occasionally for imposing” – but the terrier ego, the obsessive belief in his own destiny to expose all that is hidden, keeps taking over. It was God that was hidden in this case and he remains so despite the best efforts of Humphrys. Owen, however, continues to ask more awkward questions than his father ever could.
How the new breed of location based mobile services can find your nearest cashpoint, restaurant or wi-fi hotspot
Enjoy screenings of all the classic films you love, plus take advantage of two-for-one tickets
We explore leisure activities that are safe and suitable for all of the family
Times Online's new TV show helps you make the right decisions for your pet
Are you California dreaming? Explore the wonders of the Golden State. Also enter our fantastic competition
See the best entries in this year's competition
Your brain is capable of more than you might think...
An interactive preview of the brand new For Your Eyes Only exhibition
The latest travel news plus the best hotels and gadgets for business travellers

Love Sudoku? Play our brand new interactive game: with added functionality and daily prizes

Are you irritable when you return from work? Drained of emotion? You could be suffering from boreout
Prepare for some shock and awe, petrol lovers. Despite the greens trying to wipe it out, the car is about to offer us the most exciting year ever
We've trawled the brochures and websites to find this summer’s best holidays for every taste and budget


Search The Times Births, Marriages & Deaths
2006
£189,500
NW England
2008/08
£169,950
NW England
2007/57
£35,000
South East England
Great car insurance deals online
Circa £82,000 per annum
Birmingham Women's Hospital
Birmingham
To £28k
Barclaycard
Various (outside London)
£
Up to £66,000 per annum
Hertfordshire County Council
South East
To £38k
Barclaycard
Northampton/Liverpool
2 Bathrooms, Balcony and Garden
Beautiful Gardens w/ stunning Thames Views
Dining, Shopping & Riverside Pk
Mortgages, bank acc & money transfers to help you buy abroad
Explore mystical Jordan
From £1030 for 7nts 4*
to USA's Most Cosmopolitan City; San Francisco!
£POA
Book Now for Winter 08/09 and Get 10% off!
Great travel insurance deals online
Contact our advertising team for advertising and sponsorship in Times Online, The Times and The Sunday Times. Search globrix.com to buy or rent UK property.
© Copyright 2008 Times Newspapers Ltd.
This service is provided on Times Newspapers' standard Terms and Conditions. Please read our Privacy Policy.To inquire about a licence to reproduce material from Times Online, The Times or The Sunday Times, click here.This website is published by a member of the News International Group. News International Limited, 1 Virginia St, London E98 1XY, is the holding company for the News International group and is registered in England No 81701. VAT number GB 243 8054 69.
braham was, I AM") and take it from there. Was he an utter lunatic for saying that, in possibly the only monotheistic society of his time, or was He what He claimed to be, with all that implies for us?
Jim Ewing, Hardgate, Dunbartonshire, Scotland
Humphry's is a poseur, cashing in on what he thinks is the next craze but with realy nothing new to say. Why is he so defensive about religion and upset when someone dares to attack it? Unbelievers have been experiencing this sort of thing for ages and accept that it's the only level of debate that religious people can understand. I somehow doubt that religious folk will relish having Humphrys as their new defender - with a friend like him who needs enemies.
David bennington, Ruislip, UK
Tonie - so you think evil exists because "god" granted human beings free will. That wasn't very loving of him. It's been the cause a lot of unnecessary suffering. -- But even if you think all evil stem's from our free will, how come babies die of leukemia, women are killed by volcanoes, children crrushed in earthquakes etc. etc.? Where is our free will in all this? And why did "god" look on idly and do nothing to prevent such human suffering? -- But I agree with you on one point: If man creates a god (whether in his own image or not, that's immaterial) and gives him all the attributes he wishes and makes him say what he wants him to say and then kneels down and prays to him - this god exists only in his mind and will die with him. That's the way all the gods of history have gone and will go - no exceptions. (Tonie - I have tried to put my point over without being venomous.)
alan, cologne,
How admirable of him to be honest about his uncertainties, especially in a culture where we're encouraged to pick a side and fight for it. I hope he finds what he's looking for.
Anna, Isle of Wight, UK
The silence is deafening(Absence of COMMENT) !
derek bevan, Huntingdon/Cambs, England/UK
From a simple person with simple views: me.
Why does God allow evil? Because He gave us free will, to choose to return His love or not. and as an internet email so beautifully explains: just as dark is the absence of light and cold is the absence of heat, evil is the absence of God (good, love, compassion, mercy and all the other attributes of God).
Why so much venom from the atheists? because good and evil cannot co-exist, one relies upon the absence of the other. Is there a more venom dripping word in our language than "do-gooder"? Why? their mere existence rains on the parade ...the parade of sin and evil. Their mere existence is a condemnation of evil. Yet believers are not out for the extermination of atheists but for their conversion that they too may come to know the joys of the Loving God. False Gods? Those created in our own image who think and approve what we think and approve. They die when we die because they are our creation. True God? Seek and ye shall find.
Tonie, Laredo, USA / Texas
Atheists are not in general terms militant. We don't have policital or other groups dedicated to lobbying for our interests, or requesting special treatment, or trying to convert people to atheism. We merely argue why we think like we do. It is not arrogant to state your position or express your opinion about others beliefs. People of religion state that people who are not of their own religion will go to hell. To me that is extreme arrogance. I don't need a god to tell me how to behave. Right and wrong exists without god.
Caroline, Cheltenham,
It does not surprise me one iota that John Humphrys does not understand the science in Richard Dawkins book. Dawkins' book is full of science and logic and Humphrys is this guy with a mere 2 O Levels who repeatedly makes some of the most bizarre and weirdest allegations on BBC Radio 4 without a scrap of evidence and shows he is usually devoid of any logic.
This guy is simply grabbing the main chance of selling a lot of books.
It is about time the BBC Radio4 Today programme got rid of this poor dumb man's bizarre thinking before he tries to lynch some witch, some politician or someone else he likes to bully.
One would have thought that his multimillion annual earnings thanks to taxpayers over the yrs would have made him suitably comfortably off without trying to con people with more of his silly woolly illogical thinking?
Nicky, London SW1,
I can't see how anyone could call Daniel Dennett "militant". I would suggest people search the web / youtube for Daniel Dennett. âIt is difficult to understand the existence of conscience without accepting the existence of something beyond ourselves.â Really? In the end, Humphreyâs offers a false dichotomy between believing in archaic superstitions and believing in purposeless nothingness. It is possible to seek to live a meaningful and good life without recourse to religion - just do something meaningful.
Tim Stephenson, Hull,
Whilst having a lot of respect for John Humphreys, I find his reasoning here somewhat suspect. His disgust at the tone of the 'militant' (what have they done to deserve such a prefix?) atheists would be fine if religion was personal and benign, but it evidently is no such thing, 72 virgins in the afterlife for the martyrs, and accords no reason to any more respect than someones political beliefs. Furthermore, the line, âit is difficult to understand the existence of conscience without accepting the existence of something beyond ourselves,â is without any seeming logic. The existence of conscience is adequately explained by the evolutionary process. Conscience simply isn't mysterious and takes no leap of faith to consider. It seems to be the old line of when humans do not understand something, we place God into the gaps without any justification. Ultimately Humphreys viewpoints are personal and seem somewhat light intellectually.
Peter Heasley, Belfast, Northern Ireland
"And then they say even these people who profess to be believers actually know itâs not true. How dare they? Thatâs unacceptable. I think itâs dishonest.â
I followed the series on the radio and greatly appreciated Humphrys efforts to elucidate clarity from his guests. I also symphatise with much of this article, eventhough I have fully made up my mind about the non-existence of the supernatural. However, I would comment on the quotation above. Indeed it may be dishonest. But precisely the same reproach is made at me by believers when I confront their beliefs with my atheism. They say: but your atheism is also a belief (which is palpable nonsense) or more personal: you say you don't believe, but actually you do belief something and only don't want to admit it. That is calling me a liar. I normally accept what people with faith tell me about it at face value. It would be nice if I, as atheist, am done the same courtesy.
Ed Zuiderwijk, Cambridge, UK