Here is a tale of two young British Muslims who travelled to Pakistan.
Yasir is 19, comes from Rotherham, supports Liverpool FC and is studying Islam
in a Pakistani madrassa that will teach him to hate the West.
There are two reasons why he should not be in a Deobandi seminary in the
teeming, dusty backstreets of Karachi. The first is that Pakistan banned all
foreign students from its religious schools in 2005 after it emerged that
two of the bombers responsible for the July 7 attacks on London that year
had spent time in the country.
And the second? Yasir is miserable. He told The Times last month that he was
desperate to “get home”, was struggling to cope with life in Karachi and
uncomfortable with the seminary’s anti-Western agenda.
Yasir was seven months into an eight-year course of study when he met The
Times and during the brief interview his eyes were continually darting from
side to side as if in fear that his words might be overheard. He was at
first hungry for news of home — what were Liverpool’s coming fixtures, how
were England doing in the cricket? — but his strong Yorkshire accent often
dropped to a barely audible whisper.
Why was he here? “I don’t know that myself.” What was wrong with Karachi?
“It’s crap.” What did he miss about Britain? “Everything. It’s too hard for
me here. I don’t like to live here, man. You can’t do anything here. It’s
not England. It’s Pakistan.”
The former engineering student gave no explanation as to why he was at Jamia
Binoria, whose principal, Mufti Mohammad Naeem, challenged The Times to
inspect the seminary to “see if you can find any terrorists”. There were no
bomb factories, but for incendiary rhetoric there was Muhammed, a young man
from Manchester who was visiting a friend in the seminary’s fatwa (religious
edict) department.
Muhammed, who would not give his full name, teaches English to asylum-seekers
and, in stark contrast to Yasir, exemplifies Deobandis’ deep hostility
towards the West. He was eager to tell The Times that the public had been
entirely misled about the real perpetrators of the July 7 attack on London.
According to Muhammed, the Government, Mossad, assorted Jews, freemasons and
Scotland Yard had conspired to commit mass murder to demonise Muslims.
“These are not my opinions. These are facts. The aim was to create terror in
the hearts of the British people in order to control them,” he said.
The media were also part of the cover-up. “Why don’t you tell the public that
they are being brainwashed and that there is a conspiracy to destroy Islam,
as the Prophet told us? Why don’t you tell them that the media is controlled
by Jews, that the word ‘British’ is a Jewish word?
“If someone attacks your house, you have a right to defend what is rightfully
yours. We follow the way of the Prophet. We will defend Islam. We will
defend the Koran.”
Yasir and Muhammed illustrate the complex challenge that Britain’s security
services face in countering the threat posed by Islamic radicals. More than
400,000 people travel from Britain to Pakistan each year. The great majority
of them go for innocent reasons but some young Britons do go to study in
jihadi madrassas and train in terrorist camps. And then they return to
Britain. Jamia Binoria has 3,000 students, 500 of them foreigners from 29
countries, including Britain and the US. In its crowded halls children as
young as 5 sit in groups on the floor, rocking back and forth as they recite
the Koran.
Mr Naeem insisted that his seminary did not train students for military jihad,
but added somewhat ambiguously that none of his charges was allowed to fight
in Afghanistan “without permission”.
At a second Deobandi seminary, Darul Uloom Karachi, the vice-president
estimated that 20 to 30 British Muslims were among his 4,000 students,
although The Times was not allowed to meet any of them.
Justice Muhammad Taqi Usmani said that his seminary “extended some help to
those who fought in the jihad” against the Soviet Union in Afghanistan, but
denied aiding the Taleban in its fight against the US and Britain.
Mr Naeem and Mr Usmani insisted that Sir Salman Rushdie should receive the
death penalty for writing the Satanic Verses, and said that his knighthood
could only be interpreted as a calculated insult to Muslims.
Both seminaries were named this year in a report that describes Karachi as “a
haven for violent extremism”. The report, by the International Crisis Group,
notes that “the vast majority of Karachi’s sectarian, jihadi madrassas
follow the Deobandi sect”. It says that the leaders of Jamia Binoria have
“publicly adopted a pro-jihadi, anti-Western stance”.
Millions of pounds are raised by British mosques and sent to support terrorist
groups in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Kashmir. One, Jaish-e-Mohammed, is
thought to get £5 million a year from British donors. Close ties also exist
between JuB, the representative body of Deobandi scholars in Britain, and
JuI, a powerful Deobandi political party whose leader has been called
Pakistan’s “patron of jihad”.
The JuB (Jamiat Ulama e Britain, or Council of Muslim Theologians in Britain)
claims to have 500 affiliated institutions, including mosques and schools.
Its general council includes Deobandi scholars from Bradford, Leeds,
Dewsbury, Rotherham, Wakefield, Oldham, Burnley, Nottingham, Birmingham,
Wolverhampton, Cardiff, Crawley, Luton and London.
The JuB’s general secretary, Sheikh Mohammad Ismail, who lives in Sheffield,
is a graduate of Jamia Uloom Islamia, in Binori Town, the same Karachi
seminary that spawned Jaish-e-Mohammed. The International Crisis Group calls
it “the fountainhead of Deobandi militancy countrywide” and says that “a
generation of former students has spread a web of similar jihadi madrassas
across Karachi and beyond”.
Several young Muslims from Bradford are students at the Binori Town seminary,
which has close ties with the Taleban and has fuelled internal sectarian
violence.
The JuB’s website has links to both of the Karachi seminaries visited by The
Times. It also carries speeches by Fazlur Rehman, who heads the most
powerful faction of the JuI (Jamiat Ulema e-Islam), the Deobandi political
party in Pakistan. In one speech, Mr Rehman responds to the Danish cartoons
of the Prophet Muhammad with an impassioned attack on the West. Muslims will
only satisfy the West, he says, “when we give up our Islamic teaching,
civilisation, morals, worship and religion”. He also laments Pakistan’s
support for America and Britain in Afghanistan. “They have turned Pakistan
into a dog. They have become our masters and we are their slaves . . . if
they attack our civilisation then we will attack them back.”
Mr Ismail told The Times that the JuB, founded in 1962, was an independent
organisation, opposed to “any kind of political violence”. But he said:
“You’re trying to link us with terrorism. What about all those masonic and
Zionist organisations? What about Palestine, what about Iraq? Where are
those weapons of mass destruction? You never, ever talk about that.”
Deobandis run 8,350 of Pakistan’s 13,000 madrassas, which educate 1.5 million
children, mostly from poor, rural families. More than a third of the
Deobandi seminaries are directly affiliated to Mr Rehman’s JuI.
Mr Rehman, a regular visitor to Britain, told The Times that although his
party and the JuB were not affiliated organisationally, “we have a unanimity
of thought and ideology”.
Khalid Masud, the chairman of Pakistan’s widely respected Council of Islamic
Ideology, despairs that medieval thinking still dominates Islamic discourse
and acts as a rigid barrier against integration in Britain.
He was “saddened but not surprised” to read a sermon in which Riyadh ul Haq, a
leading Deobandi preacher, urged British Muslims not to make friends with
Jews or Christians.
“This is a very normal thing that you hear in sermons here as well. He is not
in a minority. They \ are in the Koran and in our literature, but the
historical circumstances have changed,” he said.
“These are medieval teachings, yet even for people living in Europe they have
not become irrelevant. That is what surprises me. These are worrying times
for all of us.”
Following are reasons to this problem:
1)What Indians are sufferring for the last one century, due to colonial divide and rule policy and its after effects, is being felt by you all only now. That policy assisted an already "eager to hate" mentality to blossom rapidly.
2)You may now informally agree that it is difficult to live with some people due to their ideology of exclusivity or rather they find it difficult to live with us due to their exclusivity theories. In India they buy properties from others but will not sell it to other religious people with the ultimate aim of carving out a separate country at different parts of India and they are assisted by middle east oil money. You in your country will face this demand for a separate autonomous area in the near future.
3) The politicians in a country like yours and ours depend on votes to survive and hence will take to minoritism and you can never in your life time control them bring them to the national mainstream.
So they thrive.
Rajesh, Tvm, India
The last thing that the whole of the non Islamic world can allow to happen is that al-Qaeda succeeds in getting a foothold, followed by a take-over of Pakistan. This would give al-Qaeda access to what they want, ie nuclear weapons, which they will use to try to achieve their goal of world domination of their religion. It seems to me that Bush and Blair understood this but the rest of the free world leaders, with the possible exception of a few countries like Australia, Canada, Holland and a handful of others, just do not get it or are indifferent to the situation. Iran will probably be a nuclear power by then due to the passiveness of the worlds powers who, despite the warnings of the USA, UK and a few other countries, with the inevitable result being a world nuclear war. Unless al-Qaeda and Iran are stopped and relieved of any nuclear capability, I can see no other outcome and it will happen within 5 to 10 years unless the world wake up and stand with the few brave leaders against evil
michael pickles, bournemouth, england
The last thing that the whole of the non Islamic world can allow to happen is that al-Qaeda succeeds in getting a foothold, followed by a take-over of Pakistan. This would give al-Qaeda access to what they want, ie nuclear weapons, which they will use to try to achieve their goal of world domination of their religion. It seems to me that Bush and Blair understood this but the rest of the free world leaders, with the possible exception of a few countries like Australia, Canada, Holland and a handful of others, just do not get it or are indifferent to the situation. Iran will probably be a nuclear power by then due to the passiveness of the worlds powers who, despite the warnings of the USA, UK and a few other countries, with the inevitable result being a world nuclear war. Unless al-Qaeda and Iran are stopped and relieved of any nuclear capability, I can see no other outcome and it will happen within 5 to 10 years unless the world wake up and stand with the few brave leaders against evil
michael pickles, bournemouth, england
The last thing that the whole of the non Islamic world can allow to happen is that al-Qaeda succeeds in getting a foothold, followed by a take-over of Pakistan. This would give al-Qaeda access to what they want, ie nuclear weapons, which they will use to try to achieve their goal of world domination of their religion. It seems to me that Bush and Blair understood this but the rest of the free world leaders, with the possible exception of a few countries like Australia, Canada, Holland and a handful of others, just do not get it or are indifferent to the situation. Iran will probably be a nuclear power by then due to the passiveness of the worlds powers who, despite the warnings of the USA, UK and a few other countries, with the inevitable result being a world nuclear war. Unless al-Qaeda and Iran are stopped and relieved of any nuclear capability, I can see no other outcome and it will happen within 5 to 10 years unless the world wake up and stand with the few brave leaders against evil
michael pickles, bournemouth, england
Afzal, USA.
We know the history,in fact I am tired of hearing who did what 1400 years ago !
The crux of the argument is here & now, we in the nonmuslim world have moved on, why in Gods name [ literally ] can't the muslims ?
Until they draw a line in the sand we will never move forward.
No amount of wars & killings can change the past, when will these bitter individuals see it ?
Britain has sheltered & been very good to many Muslims who are still flocking into the country, if they want to insult, change us, don't come to our country they should stay where they can have the life they say they want.
The ones coming from the Madrassas are coming with their heads filled with totally untrue things, which is why they shouldn't be allowed into the UK.
Parents who send their sons to them should also be made to answer to the law as to why they want their children educated in them.
Eight years is a long time to be in a hostile [ to Britain ] environment, is it any wonder they come back radical?
Maggie Millington, Brittany , France
Britain ought not to be apprehensive of Deobandis and their allies. After all it was 'good' policy for the British to sponsor the partition of India. The British did not internalize the fact that, after more than thousand years of co-existence with the Hindus, the Muslims - who mostly were converts from the Hindu community - suddenly discovered they were a separate nation. Churchill slapped his thigh and giggled when Jinnah's jihad initiated the massacre which followed the division of the sub-continent. He exclaimed: "We are in the end having the last laugh!" René Grousset, the French historian, has correctly observed that, as majorities, Muslims are intolerant, and, as minorities, they are turbulent. In 14 centuries Muslims have not been able to develop an ideology of co-existence, within the same space, with communities belonging to a different cultural persuasion. And the media and the politicians in the West, and in India, are afraid to say it. It is a pity. British support of Mus
Dr. Dad Prithipaul, Edmonton, Canada
The two good quality reports clearly mark out the serious threat faced by the world posed by militant obscurantism.
It will be futile to go into a blame game. However, it is necessary to examine some historical facts in order to understand why and how this cancer is spreading in Muslim societies and then examine available choices.
Let us not go into the crusades though they are relevant. However, the Picot Sykes agreement, the Balfour Declaration, the division of the remains of the defeated Ottoman empire, the creation of kingdoms of Saudi Arabia,Transjordan and Iraq, the overthrow of the secular, liberal Govenment of Iranian Prime Minister Mossadegh,the Afghan Jihad,the support to Muslim dictators including the ultra Wahabi Deobandi Zia and the pseudo moderate Musharraf,always hand in glove with the Deobandi leader Fazlurrehman etc. may be relevant for diagnosis of the disease and selection of available treatment.
This is essential for restoration of civilizational harmony.
Afzal A. Neseem, Lincoln Nebraska, U.S.A.
bogus article....please dont create hatred ...find a solution....
adnan, london, uk
Pakistan is a failed state. It serves as an incubator for global Islamic terrorism and it has made the World a more dangerous place. Thanks to Pakistan nuclear weapons technology has been sold to enemies of the West and it continues to act as a safe house for the Taliban and any other Islamic Jihadi outfit. The time has come for the international community to go on the offensive. The US and the EU should ban all flights and travel connections with the country. Visiting the country should be a criminal offence and all aid should be stopped. Until Pakistan stops behaving as Terrorist Central it should be treated as an international pariah. Those voices who spoke out against Apartheid should unite in isolating this maverick country. If Pakistanis want to support the global Islamic JIhad against Christians. Hindus, Jews or any other non-believers let them pay the price of isolation.
John white, harrogate,
While there are several Deobandi and Barelvi madrassahs in PAkistan and perhaps in other countries as well these days, it would be appropriate to note that the original Dar ul Uloom (Islamic seminary) at Deoband is located in India and it is funded entirely by the Indian govrnment. Most of the hatred of non Muslims and the new fanaticism that we see these days emanates from India and Pakistan etc are only conduits for this hatred from an Indian sponsored institution.
Mehul Kamdar, Des Plaines, IL, USA
Very good article! Thanks to you and Andrew Norfolk!
It appears there are some sane voices like that of Khalid Masud too.
However, you see the explanations, spins and justifications for preaching hatred of West and non-Muslim religions! You will see similar arguments including some strange ones from Muslims in UK, US and Europe!
Mind you: these Muslims, who hate everything representing West, have come for better life. See the hypocrisy and double standards. Sometimes, it looks as if their coming to West is deliberate to convert Western nations into Islamic ones by all possible means!
It is time to wake up or else you will have grave problems right in the UK, US and Europe! Do you need fifth columnists in your midst?
Regards,
Krishna R. Kumar, Udupi, India
As a muslim I am appalled to see such bigotroy, where did we stray from the path of moderation?
Mohamed, Muscat, Oman
Congratulations on your wake up call to those who would like to believe that everybody in the U.K wishes to become British It is now time the majority of 'Brits' including the large number of proud 'Muslim Brits' took their heads out of the sand and evicted these fanatics, the majority of Isalm doesn't want them
and the U K doesn't want them either
harvey michaels, manchester, u.k
Mr. Marc, Springfield,
You now blame India of taking Kashmir from Pakistan? It is a fool's excuse. Islam has taken half of India by terror. You must know that all of Pakistan belong to India. If British did not come to India, Maratha and Sikh would have driven all the Mullah to Middle East.
Now, Britain should suffer from its own Karma. Let the Pakis become majority in London one day, and then let them claim London as thier land. Then only Brits will feel how we Indian feel, when Pakis claim that Kashmir belongs to them, Punjab belongs to them, Sindh belongs to them and so on.
We Hindus have been fighting for our motherland for last 5000 years, protecting our holy land Bharat (India) which extend from the Bamiyan Hills in Afghanistan to the Indian ocean. Pakistan and Afghanistan exist only for last 100 years. It is a matter of time that we recover our land and drive out Islamist and Mullahs to thier hell in Middle East. And, so do not try to fool around with our land, Bharat.
Bikram, Toronto,
It simply won't work, I'm sorry to inform your readers, saying that what is said in the Koran was for a different time and that historical circumstances have changed because, Moslems are taught that the Koran was from 'allah', not from man, and that therefore nothing can be changed, added or detracted. Jihad is central to the Koran, Suras (chapters) 8 and 9 are entirely to do with warfare, treatment of the 'infidels' (non-moslem) and 'war booty' (one-fifth to Mahomet, BTW): women, children, property, slaves etc). This is quite an evil, intolerant, violent ideology. It doesn't matter if you consider it a 'religion'; it is not like other belief systems and it is entirely unacceptable. Yhe other insurmountable problem is Mahomet himself: without him there is no Islam and his life, words and deeds are the inspiration for the actions of Moslems; Mahomet was a warlord and his actions and teachings are repulsive and antithetical to our Western values.
James, london,
Having read the article the only opinion I can form is that Islam is medieval, ignorant and increasingly irrelevant in modern society.
Andrew, Staffordshire, England
British? - my father-in-law would turn in his grave. Either they are British, in which case they are behaving little short of treasonous, or they are not in which case why are they tolerated?
B Featherstone, Bolton, England
They should be entitled to their opinion and I would support them being given the right to leave Britain and live permanently in Pakistan.
I would even suggest that the Government gives them financial assistance to meet a percentage of the airfare .
trevorjd, Torbay, UK
I believe I live opposite members of this sect and it is disturbing. I have had fits raised at me. When I knocked to say hello as they moved in, my knock was not answered as the women (I am told) cannot answer the door themselves.
I am woken every weekday morning by the 7 am van white or red van that collects a young woman, in black from head to toe, who lives opposite and one morning I was on my drive leaving early and saw that the whole van was full of similarly dressed young Muslim woman all being taken away to closed schooling. Very sinister for me.
I find it disturbing and not healthy than in the UK people are allowed to live this way and to educate their children this way.
What hope for any future integration - these sectists seem to deliberately keep away from our culture and still criticise it and lie about it, as this article demonstrates, and I worry about our future.
Name withheld, High Wycombe, Bucks
By adopting a pro-multiculturalist (and its associated multi-ethnical, multi-religious) agenda, Labour have, without securing a single vote in Parliament, invited a host of different religions to live in separate, tribal like conclaves.
A welter of freedom-restricting, control and monitoring laws have been forced on everyone (including the dis-enfranchised indigenous, largely Christian or sectarian population) in order to keep what is increasingly becoming a ceasefire type of peace between these various groups.
Any frequent visitor or inhabitant of Eastern countries such as Singapore, China and Indonesia could have predicted that Britain was not ready for multiculturalism. Eastern societies, especially those based in Islamic countries, are intrinsically so different in their way of life and thinking that trouble was bound to be the result.
Edwin thornber, Bucharest,
I don't think there is anything left in the world that can unite the U.S. and Britian ever again . It will dawn on us all sooner or later we have to at least unite against this common enemy. These people want non muslims dead . No amount of talking ,pandering ,apologizing by the timorous left in both countries is going to change that. We have to fight them decisively where ever they are.
Jay, Dixie, U.S. S.C.
It seems everyone is being ultra-cautious here and not adding the simple fact that the problem does not originate in Pakistan.
The Deobandis have their roots, and ample financing, in Saudi Arabia and the UAE. But we can't upset those nice armaments-buying people, can we? Pakistan is merely the location of these madrassars. They are funded by Gulf money.
Roy E, Salford, UK
We have been warned once again. What is te government of te day doing about it? Recording the details all those who go to Pakistan, I hope, and interviewing them to find out their allegiances. But Moslems are allowed, nay encouraged by the Koran to tell lies if it is "to Protect Islam", so they need to sign an official sworn statement that they will in no way preach treason or attack British interests on pain of 30 years imprisonment, no parole. Kind of like the Official Secrets Act Statement I had to sign when I was working on sensitive military equipment years ago.
Otherwise we have a fifth column in our midst.
B J Deller, Marbella, Spain
The government has know for years about the intolerant wahhabi-deobandi connection and done nothing to stop the imams from these sects coming into the UK and setting up, mosques and schools. I have repeatedly ask the government to look into the funding of UK mosques by Saudi Arabia and put a stop to it. I am convinced that the increase in the number of Muslim women wearing the full burka (a thing their own mothers never did) is due to more and more mosques falling under wahhabi-deobandi control. Both these intolerant jihadi sects demand their women to be veiled.
Paul Bastier, Kendal,, UK
Once again, congratulations to The Times for fearless investigative reporting .
Message to Brown & co.:-
HELLO, IS THERE ANYONE AWAKE IN THIS GOVERNMENT OR HAS EVERYONE THERE BEEN SILENCED BY THE ISLAMOFASCISTS AND THE POLITICALLY CORRECT LEFT ???
Rick, London, England
Britain is a soft touch for these terrorists.
They ride high on political correctness and further their cause through our all too tolerant attitudes.
We have Islamists in our midst who are allowed to develop their despicable agenda of hate, fanaticism and deluded religious clap trap.
They are a threat to us all.
Halo DS, London,
I have muslim neighbours, their kids play with my nine year old in our garden. The adults don't interact with non-muslims, every time a house is up for sale muslims move in, they are not neighbourly, they loudly draw phlegm off their chests and spit and their women look like alien's all covered in black, and I believe so called moderate muslims secretly want their extreme brothers to suceed. There will be blood on the streets but the muslims have no idea want they are in for.
Henry, Romford,
The time has come for a major commission on the requirements of British citizenship and the right to remain in the UK.
People with such anti British hostility have no 'right' to be in the UK at all, and are a danger to society and to the 'right to life' of every one else.
Aisha, Shoreditch, UK
our lase fair and over tolerant society is to blame for allowing this problem to blossom and flourish under all of our noses in the UK. It is the UK who should be taking a hard line and to monitor closely and stamp out this radicalism which is being allowed in all our major cities.
fly, london,
I agree with the some of the content but this is not the whole truth. Religion has been a very important part of the Pakistani life but what mixed it with voilence was the Soviet invasion on Afghanistan and I don't need to repeat who arranged, financed, trained and used these elements. I would like to mention here that 98% of these Madrassas were formed after then Soviet invasion with dollars from Washington who was blindly supporting their Jihad and called them 'Mujahidin' or 'Holy Warriors' in English. Madrassas were established, media was hired to inspire people into them, Jihad against the 'invaders' was popularised and thus Jihad, extremism, fundamentalism, whatever you call it, was injected into the blood of thousands of youngsters. After the Soviets left, however, these Mujahidin were abondoned and they, as they were taught and fed in Madrassas run with dollars, continued to stuggle against or for whatever was unislamic or Islamic according to their definition.
Naveed Yousafzai, Warsaw, Poland
400,000 folks going back and forth a year to Pakistan, a country with 13,000 madrasses dedicated to teaching a seventh century subject with zero employment possibilities? In WW II were there 400,000 Germans going back and forth to Germany?
Grant, Scarsdale, New York, USA
I can see only tears coming from this.
I talk to people every day..people i have only just met as customers in thier own houses.As a white British majority they know this is happening and one day they or thier children will have to fight these people to hold on to their country of birth.
The government must act...and act quickly .
These people are ready to arm themselves.
All it takes is a few container loads of weapons in the right place and you have a seige in any one of our major cities in this country.
Money is no object to these people.And the training and logistical network is in place from conflicts in the middle east and the Balkans.
Wake up England.Doing nothing is not an option.They are here and they are getting ready to fight.
thaibog, High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire
It is a sad situation indeed. Many are to blame but as far as UK is concerned; first it is the legacy of bad colonial decisions Britain took circa 1947 that now stare it in its face. Had Mountbatten not messed up in Kashmir and Northern Punjab(gurdaspur) these British Pakistanis would not be yearning to fight and die for part of their native kashmir they consider under Indian Military occupation. I mean UK has not lifted a finger to nudge India towards a resolution in 60 years. If there was no Kashmir problem then perhaps there would be no nuclear rivalry in South Asia either!
Apart form their aspirations and identity vis-a-vis Mirpur, Kashmir; these young Britons have never been made to feel British first. Perhaps UK can expand economic scope of possibilities for these Pakistani Britons.
UK must trace the money back to donors in UK.
Incidently the Deobandi school was founded in India in colonial times and it thrives there today with Madrassa et al. Remember Kafeel Ahmed from India.
Marc, Springfield, Mass.,
Talk about learning the lessons of the Second World War.
Ant-semitism and kamikaze training.
Unfortunately they learnt from the Nazis and the Imperial Japanese.
Adam, Eastcote, middx, uk
there is one thing for us to do ,_untied and work together for peace ! no single person or country is full filled in that work,that is the whole thing of world
wangbin, xi'an, China