Frances Gibb
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What did the Archbishop say?
Dr Williams said that it “seems unavoidable” that some aspects of Sharia would be adopted in Britain. He urged that the law do more to accommodate the religious convictions and practices of other faith groups .
Why have his comments prompted such a furore?
Sharia is controversial in the West because – as the Archbishop put it – it calls up “all the darkest images of Islam”. He added: “What most people think they know of Sharia is that it is repressive towards women and wedded to archaic and brutal physical punishments,” such as stoning, flogging and amputation.
Timing is another factor: his comments come during heightened tensions over fundamentalist Islam’s link with terrorism, along with growing concern that English law, influenced by political correctness, is bending over to favour or accommodate minority ethnic beliefs, practices and sensitivities in a way that it would not for mainstream Christian ones.
Another reason is that Dr Williams, a highly erudite man, expresses his thoughts in nuanced and complex language that is not easily accessible and open to widespread misunderstanding. Many commentators are unclear exactly what he said, and even those who attended his lecture agreed that they would have to go away to digest its contents.
Why is the Archbishop so concerned about Muslims – what about other groups?
Throughout his lecture, the Archbishop was at pains to say that the issues he raised applied equally, for example, to Orthodox Judaism and other faith groups. They affected the rights, for instance, of Roman Catholic adoption agencies not to place babies with gay couples. But as Dr Williams was inaugurating a lecture series on Islam in English law, he focused his arguments on Muslim issues.
Is the Archbishop proposing that Muslims should not have to live under the law of this country – in essence that we have a parallel system of law?
Dr Williams is not saying this. In questions after his lecture he stated unequivocally: “I am not talking about parallel systems but about how the law of the land, most fruitfully and with the least conflicts, can accommodate other practices.” He is raising the question of whether there should be “a higher level of attention to religious identify and communal rights in the practice of the law . . . and a delegation of certain legal functions to the religious courts of a commmunity”. In any case, as several lawyers have said, Sharia cannot “trump the basic fundamentals of English law”, including equal treatment and human rights irrespective of gender or religion.
What could this mean in practice?
He says that individuals should be free to “choose the jurisdiction under which they will seek to resolve certain carefully specified matters”, which may include “aspects of marital law, the regulation of financial transactions and authorised structures of mediation and conflict resolution”. He cites areas of Orthodox Jewish practice, which is the best example for what he seems to have in mind. The Beth Din is a Jewish court that mediates on a range of disputes within the Orthodox community. Sharia councils do the same but they are not formalised or recognised as the Beth Din is. Nor could decisions be taken without regard to the laws of the land. Dr Williams accepts this: people opting into such a forum for the resolution of their dispute cannot be denied the wider rights claimed by others in society, regardless of faith, or punish its members for claiming those rights. But he does not spell out how those rights would be safeguarded in a system whose codes already deprive women, for example, of those basic rights.
How else could aspects of Sharia be adopted, as Dr Williams puts it?
One way, some argue, is by giving Muslims the legal recognition accorded to other faith groups over, for example, marriage and divorce. Jeremy Rosenblatt, a barrister specialising in international child law, points out that the Jewish get, or Orthodox divorce, has been incorporated into the law of this country in the sense that if a husband refused to grant his wife a get so that she could remarry in a synagogue, she could deny him a decree absolute. Dr Williams does not say how the problem of polygamy might be overcome, although he made clear that he does not support it: “Proscriptions in the Koran are prescriptive, not mandatory; no one has to have more than one wife.”
Do Dr Williams’s comments have wider implications?
Yes: he raises many questions that he leaves unanswered. For example: He wants the law to give greater recognition to religious convictions without “blocking access to the liberties guaranteed by the wider society”. He does not say how that balance should be struck, recognise that courts seek to strike that balance daily or make clear that religion is no excuse for breaking the law. He wants Sharia councils to be formalised as a “recognised authority” for religious groups so that when there are clashes with the law the councils would have power to declare whether an “appeal to religious scruple” was vexatious. But he does not anticipate the practical problems, not least that this could engender clashes between such councils and the courts, which would not be bound to accept their rulings. Muslims, he says, should not have to choose between the “stark alternatives of cultural loyalty or state loyalty”. But where there is a clash, he does not make sufficiently clear that the law should prevail. Worse, he says that he disagrees that there is “one law for everybody”. Greater legal recognition for Muslim marriage or “constructive accommodation” of resolving Muslim marital disputes could, some say, bring Muslim women within the protection of the law. But any alternative divorce court could not be adopted unless consistent with fundamental principles of the law on equality and other human rights.
On balance, has Dr Williams started a much-needed debate or stirred a hornets’ nest?
Dr Williams wants greater tolerance of a wider range of religious beliefs in the eyes of the law. But if the debate is welcome, his specific proposals and the way that he frames them are much less so. In his efforts to secure greater social cohesion, Dr Williams may have done the opposite.
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It is not just on this one issue that we call for the resignation of the ABC. His views about homosexuality, creation, the state of Israel and Britain's roll in slavery are not dissimilar to those of Ken Livingstone. They have much in common. His lack of leadership is hastening the breaking up the world wide Anglican communion and not content with that he want to see the collapse of Britain too.
david skinner, child okeford , uk / dorset
Like Steve and Maude Heath, although an atheist myself, I am more concerned with the reaction to the Bishop's comments.
There is not, or should not be, any inhibition to voicing one's opinion about anything if it contributes to societies' collected thoughts. Merely musing, if you like.
What I find more dangerous is the animalistic response by others, akin to pack animal behaviour, 'mobbing' the speaker like a lynch party.
Dr Williams is obviously an intelligent person, perhaps a little ingenuous, but should not be denied the right to express his opinions.
Spare us from the glib, silver-tongued, smooth talking know-it-alls, else they have their way with us all.
Shaftmonde, Redruth, Cornwall
I find it hard to believe that the AoC is 'shocked' at the press his comments have received.
Certainly there is a plethora of other issues that he could confront rather than the Muslim one.
Millions of gorgeous British babies have perished due to legal abortion, shame! How about Yobs, drugs, binge drinking, violence in schools, bullying.......the list goes on.
The more we confront the differences of religion in this country, the more we divide each other.
Mark, Maidstone, UK
Even on simple things like marriage we cannot allow Sharia as muslims weddings can be conducted without the bride and groom ever seeing each other and without even being in the same room.
How can the law of the land recognise this?
Kris, London,
I can understand why some people are trying to defend the archbishop but I think they are missing the point. The issues Dr Williams raised may well have some merit and be worthy of debate but what he has done is analogous to the leader of a left wing trade union standing up and saying the Nazis did some really good things for Germany and we should consider adopting some of the ideas and practices of the Third Reich. I don't imagine that person would remain leader of the union for long irrespective of how true or intellectually interesting the concepts may be. The best you can say for Rowan Williams is that he has been breathtakingly naive and totally lacking in media savvy - not qualities you want in the leader of your church.
Mel, London,
I'm sorry, but if the great and "highly erudite" Archbishop cannot communicate his thoughts clearly so that they are not misinterpreted, I wonder for what reason does he attempt to communicate publicly at all? Misunderstandings are how wars get started, and to have at the helm of such a historically significant institution an individual whose utterances can be easily misunderstood would seem to be quite dangerous at best and most certainly not beneficial to the CoE.
In a complex world in which disparate societies are linked instantaneously through highly sophisticated communication channels, individual communication needs much less emphasis upon nuance and much much more upon clarity. It is important to know immediately what an individual means especially when nuance and the structure of "complex thoughts" may be lost in translation. In these circumstances, clarity is imperative.
If the archbishop cannot communicate his thoughts clearly, then just how "erudite" is he really?
Scott, Durham, NC, USA
I must add my wieght to Barney Jones' comment. I was initially startled when I heard the headlines but swiftly realised what a fertile ground for debate it could be, and that I need to research and think it all through. Actually I felt an idiot for being so unthinkingly against sharia law, in a 'never the twain shall meet' kind of way. But the (self-seeking) politicians and journalists are doing untold damage.
pim, Tunbridge Wells,
The Bish had a Rivers of Blood moment: he didn't say what everyone else heard. But he should go and we should have an ABofC who is not a clever clogs, just a simple, faithful Anglican.
John Ledbury, Kings Lynn, England
I take issue with Dr Williams' attempt to bring theology into the law at all. The law does not and should not rely on religion for its legitimacy. There's a hint in what Dr Williams is saying that current British law should be seen as underpinning Christian beliefs rather than as granting rights to all individuals irrespective of their beliefs. If there's any truth in that, let's make sure we secularise the law completely as soon as possible.
Noel, Reigate, UK
The media cannot be blamed for the controversy surrounding the Archbishop's lecture - the reaction of the public was swift and strong and could not be ignored. The thousand upon thousands of emails/text messages/letters on the subject bear testament to the concern of the British public at the suggestion of tinkering with the legal system to accommodate a minority faith. In future, if he stays in post, Dr Williams should concern himself with matters of his own faith and that of his Anglican flock, and not interfere in politics.
Old-Tyke, England,
I seem to recall a phrase about a "meddlesome priest".
Rick Elliott, Bosworth, England
Since the signing of the Magna Carter, English citizens have campaigned and suffered tirelessly to achieve a legal framework that places ALL citizens in the same position without discrimination based on race, gender, wealth and creed. Sharia law, as already pointed out by the European Convention on Human Rights is incompatible with the liberal and equitable framework that has been achieved in the last 1000 years in the UK and most of Western Europe.
Encouraging Sharia aspects is a massive step in the wrong direction. No serious Muslim scholar has ever been able to show that Sharia treats women the same as men - it self evidently does not. By therefore accepting Sharia law, even for minor civil matters, in a single stroke, he is sanctioning discrimination against women within Muslim communities. Regardless of what he might say - that is the affect of his pronouncement. At that precise point he has forfeited all moral authority to lead his own Church and inspire British Citizens.
Tom Porter, Singapore, Singapore
'In his efforts to secure greater social cohesion, Dr Williams may have done the opposite.'
It is not the Archbishop who has done so. It is the politicians and journalists who simply did not stop to consider the complexity of his arguments.
We must stop essentialising the ideas of an extremely valuable lecture into punchy headlines. I only hope that this media furore makes more people read the full text of the lecture so that they can think for themselves.
Will someone from this newspaper not take more of a stand and defend Rowan Williams?
Barney Jones, Tokyo, Japan
The response to Dr Williams' comments has been nothing short of diabolical. It's unfortunate that we live in a society where nuance is wilfully ignored, where questions are disallowed, where uncertainty is a sign of weakness, where calm reason and open debate are bludgeoned to death by the sheer volume of intellectually bankrupt outrage, stoked as it always is by the usual sources.
Even government ministers who surely grasped Dr Williams' point had to affect outrage to placate the rantings of the mob. Pathetic.
This secular atheist feels desperately sorry for Dr Williams right now. He is a better man - and a considerably more thoughtful one - than just about anyone currently baying for his blood. Disagree with him, by all means. But he most certainly does not deserve this treatment.
Steve, Cardiff, UK
A good article. The general reaction thus far is a sad reflection of the dumbed down nature of modern British society.
Maude Heath, Chippenham, UK