Joanna Sugden
Win Sky+HD for a year and a trip to Barcelona
A Catholic bishop has accused the gay community of leading a “conspiracy” against Christianity by allying itself with Holocaust survivors.
The Bishop of Motherwell, Joseph Devine, says a “homosexual lobby” has aligned itself with minority groups, including Holocaust survivors, to gain persecuted status.
He said there was a “huge and well orchestrated conspiracy” taking place in the “gay movement”, which the Catholic Church neglected “at our peril”.
The bishop, who has previously spoken out against the Labour government’s support for civil partnerships, said the “lobby” was “ever present” at services for Holocaust Memorial Day. “The impression is that they have been equally persecuted,” he said.
In an attack on openly gay actor Sir Ian McKellen the bishop said: “I saw actor Ian McKellen being honoured for his work on behalf of homosexuals, when a century ago Oscar Wilde was locked up and put in jail.”
He made the comments during a lecture on “Christian faith and inconvenient questions” in Glasgow on Tuesday and has since stood by them, “These groups are defending their position, I am defending mine”, he said. “It is all about a lifestyle alien to the Christian tradition. There is a giant conspiracy against Christian values, an agenda here."
A spokesman defended the bishop's comments, "Anything which attacks the sanctity of marriage and the family will be opposed by the church," he said. Civil partnerships are "an abuse" of the church's teaching on marriage, he told Times Online.
Christine Shaw, head of Holocaust Memorial Day Trust, said it was important to remember all the victims of the Holocaust “be they Jewish, disabled, gay or lesbian people".
“The day is also about learning the lessons of the past to encourage society to tackle all forms of prejudice, including anti-Semitism, racism and homophobia,” she said.
Calum Irving, director of Stonewall Scotland, which promotes equality and justice for gay people, said the bishop was “deluded”.
He told The Scotsman: “Such a continued attack on gay people is distinctly un-Christian and deeply out of step with the views of most Scots today.”
Explore your passion for food with the delights of Thai, Indian & Chinese cooking
In our new series, Tony Hawks takes a dry, wry look at modern life - junk mail, interminable meetings and snooty sales assistants
Read the training tips and advice that helped our London Triathletes
Read our exclusive 100 Years of Fleming and Bond interactive timeline, packed with original Times articles and reviews
The latest travel news plus the best hotels and gadgets for business travellers
Shortcuts to help you find sections and articles
2007
£30,000
2006
£14,337
2008
£39,937
Great car insurance deals online
c.£75,000
GlosFirstmeansbusiness
Gloucestershire
£32,795 - £41,545
Universitry of Southampton
Southampton
£
£32,795 - £41,545
Universitry of Southampton
Southampton
Competitive Package
Npower
West Midlands
1 & 2 Bed apartments
From £249,995
Great Investment, River Views
Great Dubai Investment Opportunities
from £89,950
low-cost ownership homes in London
Las Vegas SALE!
£POA
With Ramblers Worldwide Holidays!
£POA
List your property with two leading travel websites
£POA
Great travel insurance deals online
Contact our advertising team for advertising and sponsorship in Times Online, The Times and The Sunday Times. Globrix Property Search - find property for sale and rent in the UK. Milkround Job Search - for graduate careers in the UK. Visit our classified services and find jobs, used cars, property or holidays. Use our dating service, read our births, marriages and deaths announcements, or place your advertisement.
Copyright 2008 Times Newspapers Ltd.
This service is provided on Times Newspapers' standard Terms and Conditions. Please read our Privacy Policy.To inquire about a licence to reproduce material from Times Online, The Times or The Sunday Times, click here.This website is published by a member of the News International Group. News International Limited, 1 Virginia St, London E98 1XY, is the holding company for the News International group and is registered in England No 81701. VAT number GB 243 8054 69.
Bishop Devine is absolutely correct, The Nazi Party was built by Wall Street money (read Prof. Antony Sutton's Wall Street And The Rise Of Hitler) a political Party founded by dominant butch homosexuals who persecuted the effeminate as scapegoats to hide their deviancy (read The Pink Swastika).
Tony Cooper, Greenock, Scotland
Of course there is a conspiracy. If one looks at the ratio of homosexuals in political Office in the London Parliament and in positions of power in the mass media who have radicaly promoted the homosexual agenda one can be left in little doubt.
Anne Cooper, Greenock, Scotland
Live and let live anyone?
Moses McGinty, Glasgow, U.K.
Typical crass hypocrisy from another catholic face.
Any decent humanist should welcome excommunication from this despicable body.
S.S.Summers, NY,
It is unfortunate that the good bishop is so short-sighted that he cannot recognize the widespread hypocrisy of the ever more corrupt church which he represents. The "sanctity of marriage" includes respect for the children of these marriages, and yet the Catholic Church has stood silently by while priests of the church were aggresively molesting and abusing these children. It is only in the past twenty-five years [or possibly less] that the civil authorities have forced the church leaders into any kind of accountability . Secrecy, corruption and abuse of power are not consistent with the Christian message of love and compassion. Mr. Bishop, Get the message!
Thomas Robertsen, Saint Louis, Missouri USA
Am I the only one who notices that since the Catholic church elected its new Pope it is increasingly advocating bigotry, racism and ignorance?
That is the real moral disgrace. These so-called moral leaders are appalling, and quite frankly ought to be taken to task for hate-mongering.
The imprisonment of Oscar Wilde was one of British judicial history's most shameful hours. That Ian McKellan is now honoured is a sign that society is finally beginning to get things right.
Grania, Cork,
Wow wonderful moral authority from a group of men (Bishops) who covered up child sex abuse for years and systematically transferred priests from parish to parish so they could inflict more pain and suffering.
From a church that played a role in promoting anti-semitism for hundreds of years.
The days when they can stand on their boxes and proclaim to the world is over. Their own moral authority is compromised.
MIchael O Neill, Belfast,
Homosexuals were also murdered by the Nazi regime, do not try to equate Homosexuality with Nazism, or do you too wish to rewrite history as the Bishop has done!?
As a 17 year old, I am sickened by the intolerant and misguided views of you all, adults who clearly have no true moral fibre and are simply subservient to religious texts that have been twisted by the hand of man, not of God!
Alex, Leeds, England
Why blame gays if God creates everything.As Spike Milligan once said-' there's two things I can't stand - intolerance and Catholics.
Iain Rae, Tunbridge Wells, U.K.
What someone here called "the clearly defined word of God" is in fact nothing but superstition and ignorance. We must not confuse religious superstition with reality.
It is such muddled thinking that leads bishops to make crazy statements.
greg, St Helens, England
If he is so concerned about this issue should he not start by asking his fellow Bishops why the Catholic Church in Scotland is a Trustee of Scottish Churches House which advertises facilities, including use of the ecumenical chapel, for the celebration of Civil Partnerships.
Fergus J, Edinburgh, UK
The homosexual agenda threatens Christianity in this country by penalising those who condemn homosexual acts and making them seem like bigots akin to Nazis. This is dangerous. By the way a great number of Nazis were homosexual and the relationship between Nazism the extreme right and homosexuals is a very interesting and convoluted one.
paul wood, bucharest, romania
A major part of the Christian tradition which Joseph Devine blathers about, is tolerance. Tolerance being largely absent from Catholic dogma rather suggests that Roman Catholics are hardly valid spokespeople for Christianity.
Joseph Devine's concept of the "sanctity of marriage" is just his own idea. Marriage in the UK is a civil state and requires no endorsements or conditions from the Catholic church or even the bold Bishop himself.
What curious conceit they have, these self-proclaimed leaders of men.
Sean, Coventry, UK
In the U. S., the Roman Catholic Church is running expensive commercials on television inviting those Catholics who have left the church to return. They say, in these "commercials" , that the Roman Catholic church has changed. It is not the same church. From what I've read here it doesn't sound like it to me.
John F. McIlray, Scottsdale, Arizona, USA
Must be awful to be so full of hatred. I have only pity.
rich, london,
It's strange that a Catholic Bishop would complain about gays pointing out, correctly, that gays were put in concentration camps during the Holocaust, particularly given Pius XII's complicity with the Nazi genocide. Between standing idly by during the Holocaust and covering up the misdeeds of pedophile priests, the Catholic Church is rather lacking in moral high ground.
T.B., West Hollywood, USA
We live in a society of tolerance, we ask that everyone is tolerant of one another. But surely this means that we can accept that whilst we 'tolerate' one another's position it doesn't mean we all have to sing to the same tune.
Why is it so hard to accept that people will have opposed views, they should be able to have a stance on their beliefs and exercise their right to opinion.
Dave, Gibraltar,
Well done Bishop of Motherwell for highlighting an escalating attack on Christian values as taught in the bible. There are too many "politically correct" apologists today ready to support a humanist view against the clearly defined word of God.
Mr. E Scott, Carlisle,
PETER (USA), have you considered that some, in fact, probably many or most homosexual, bisexual, transexual or transgendered people feel no need to repent and have no desire to enter an imaginery heaven. Being such a person is not a choice whereas, I beleive being a Christian is. Consider that these people might already define themselves as being in heaven as they live in a relatively free society or indeed in hell having to share it with people like you who try & impose their borrowed views on all others ? GREG L, can one be a homosexual without commiting a homosexual act ? B J DELLER, I would call suggesting "gays" as you put it, are conspiring against the Catholic Chruch an attack & an obvious admission of fear known as homophobia; perhaps it's fear of the unknown ! If you look at the anatomy & physiology of the body you'll understand what's really natural ! . . . Irving is not deluded, gay people are & continute to be persecuated & I 'm proud to be fighting against that !
Gordon B McFatter, Edinburgh, UK
Obviously homosexuals don't like being told that their lifestyle is immoral. However there is a very substantial body of opinion that this is the case, not all of it Christian by any means.
Homosexual practise has addictive qualities. As with similar behaviours - drug taking, gambling, anorexia - people will often act to protect access to the stimulus. In this case the authorities seem to have been suckered by "equal rights" rhetoric.
Malcolm McLean, Bradford, UK
Well at least he isn't claiming that gays are causing floods or trying to bring back the Index Librorum Prohibitorum as the Bishop of Lancaster seems to want to do.
Personally I would like to see any Catholic involved in causing or denying the Holocaust excommunicated, posthumously if necessary.
Colin Walls, Hyde, UK
Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, Bishop, than open it and remove all doubt.
jon livesey, Sunnyvale, CA/USA
If the group you belonged to was systematically attacked by another group, you might have some reason to fight back, seems to me.
When the Bishop can come up with some evidence that he will actually deal in a proper Christian manner with troubled souls, then we might give a little more credence to his frantic anxiety.
But pontificating about how good the Church is, while anathematising people who have no choice for their orientation, will only drive the public opinion of the Church further down into the grave it is digging for itself.
The Bible has very strong condemnations of gossip, but it is quite obvious that most churches thrive on gossip - it is even part of the service in some denominations, albeit disguised as "prayer requests". Indeed, the act of gossip is usually the vehicle for setting up the shunning of otherwise innocent people as scapegoats for the nasty behaviour of the "righteous".
John, Hillsborough, N.B., Canada
Peter, Portland: "Without repenting I do not believe any homosexual will be ready or interested in being in heaven."
Hang on there, the Catholic position is that Homosexuality per se is not sinful, only homosexual acts, just as with any sex outside of marriage (assumed to only be valid between the sexes).
The Bishop isn't griping about homosexuality itself.
Greg Lorriman, Leatherhead, UK
There's a God and there's a devil; there's a heaven and there is a hell. The good bishop is responsible to communicate the teachings of Christ with the guidance of the Holy Spirit as passed on by his Apostels. He is merely telling the truth about what is evil in our world, and a threat to what is good. Without repenting I do not believe any homosexual will be ready or interested in being in heaven. To some this might not sound like a problem, except that the devil hates each and every one of us with a special hatred born of envy and pride. Hell in charge of the dark side will have no good, no camaraderie, no joy, no happiness, no peace, no friendship, no life, no beauty, nothing but hate, pain, discomfort, unhappiness, sadness, and an eternal journey into loneliness and despair. Assuming this doesn't sound like fun, .ALL OF US NEED TO FOCUS ON TURNING OURSELVES IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION or face this well communicated and prescribed consequence well known to every human conscience.
Peter, Portland, Oregon, USA
Am not surprised the Bishop thinks gays are anti Christian when the Christian clergy spend so much time gay (verbal) bashing. If the clergy were really keen on defending the sanctity of marriage they would speak out against soap operas where marriages do not seem to last much for more than five minutes
Chris, Birmingham,
Given that the the Gay and Lesbin Humanist Society have joined forces with the British Secular Society which is absolutely intollerant towars Catholicism in particular, its no wonder the Bishop feels there is a conspiracy, there clearly is in many gays and lesbians. Ironically Holocaust Memorial Day exists to show where this type of intolleration can lead to, holocausts! If being gay or lesbian means anti-Catholic or anti anything that smacks of criticising this phenomenon we need to ask ourselves as a society at what stage do we intervene in this emerging intolleration to protect those who have other ideas of what makes a good society.
Peter, Nottingham, UK
There absolutely should be no attacks on gays, but what constitutes an attack? Is the statement that Christianity (and other religions) has every right to reject gays because it is, in their opinions immoral an attck? It is an opinion as well as a moral decision based on the followers of the Christian religion and its teachings, not an attack, and who is "frightened" (phobia, another false word hatched up by the gay community). Why "gay pride" Why are gays proud of being outside of the normal human circle where the human body is used for purposes it was not designed for? I feel very sorry as a man that they cannot enjoy the wonderful relationships with women, and I am not just saying sex. But if I say that to one in general conversation not during any confrontation as I have friends who are gay, they turn on me as if I am the unnatural person. But sorry as i am for them, we must reject their constant campaigns to make us normals seem to be the unnatural ones.
B J Deller, Marbella, Spain
Calum Irving, director of Stonewall Scotland: said the bishop was âdeludedâ. :"continued attack on gay people is distinctly unChristian"
It does seem that the Bishop is a vastly greater authority on what constitutes being christian. Perhaps Irving thinks being Christian is about being nice. And for Irving to call the bishop deluded and then pronounce on what it is to be Christian in contradiction of the Bishop would suggest that he is on the wilder side of sane.
Better to denounce Christianity entirely than this pretense. Then we can have a fair war and open persecution instead of this false peace. And the English bishops will at last be forced to defend the faith with their own bodies.
Greg Lorriman, Leatherhead, UK