Gerry from Southampton says: "Cardinal O'Brien had a scientific background!! I heard a few Talibans in Afghanistan were doctors and one even a surgeon. When it comes to religion, science becomes the victim."
It seems that for Gerey rational discussion is not the victim, its not even an option.
Confronted with such bigoted nonsense one hesitates to suggest Gerry should read up on Abbe Lemaitre who often made the point that his scientific persona and his religious persona could happily coexist in different compartments of his mind but that both compartments were in essence rational.
Doubt, though, whether Gerry's mind is up to such cerebration. Like a lot of the other bile merchants found herein.

Hugh McLoughlin, Bellshill, Lanarkshire

Surely the question for RC Government Ministers and Backbenchers is not whether they should have a free vote, but whether in conscience it is possible for them to be a member/supporter of a government/legislature/party which is prepared to pass such legislation.
Faced with contraception/abortion/IVF/AID and other medical procedures which are mortal sins, can a RC be Health Minister or indeed because of collective responsibilty, a member of the Cabinet.

Tony Knight, Durham,

It's hard to imagine this much bile being allowed to be posted here were it directed against any religion other than Catholicism.

Greg, Bothwell,

Bring back the inquistion

Bill, Rome,

'The Government is heading for its biggest confrontation with the Roman Catholic Church'

Erm, including the Reformation?

Helen, Manchester,

I would just like to thank the Cardinal for reminding me to write to my MP urging him to support the Bill, and to ignore the tiny minority that he (the Cardinal) represents.

Peter Martin, Welwyn,

By the way, who made the atomic bomb, cardinals or scientists?

Tato Dulanci, Vitoria, Spain

Every MP who votes against this legislation on the basis of 'faith', should go to somebody who suffers from a degenerative disease, and tell them that they had the chance to stop it happening to somebody else, but actually their lives don't matter as much as the MPs 'faith'!

David Leslie, Perth, Scotland

Let us not forgot about the sanctity and purity of life in the pursuit of science, knowledge and power.
Call it karma, fate or whatever you like but the world we live in does not allow our actions to escape return to us. This is the Will of our Creator - that we reap what we sow. Is it worth contravening Nature's laws to delay physical death?

Chidubem, London, England

Dear sirs

The concept that a fertilized oocyte outside the body can be considered a life is obsolete. The progress of research has enabled scientists to reproduce in laboratories the process of fertilization which naturally occurs inside the female body. After a sperm penetrates an egg it takes 3 to 5 days to achieve a cluster of cells which is named embryo. Differently from the natural process this cluster of cells has no potential to originate a life unless transferred into the female body. The interaction with the uterus is therefore essential to originate a human life.
Hence an embryo outside the body cannot be seen as a life and these cells can be used for regulated research which can be useful to save human lives.
Furthermore in-vitro-ferlization (IVF) firstly performed in this Country in 1976, gave happiness to millions of infertile couples who were given the opportunity to complete their families.
Everyone has the right of expressing their thoughts, but the Catholic Church has also the power of influencing politicians thus imposing their views on legislation. In this way in some catholic countries, the Vatican has seriously interfered with legislations which should never be controlled by a religion. The scientific world does not take with favour such intrusion. Recently, in Italy, a board of scientists in Rome rejected the visit of the Pope at the University La Sapienza. as it was seen as a further attempt of interfering with people freedom given the open contrast with the views of science. The United Kingdom has always been a world example of openness and freedom and religions were always kept out of the House of Parliament. The issue of embryo legislation is a very important one but legislating only means regulating and it does not mean impeding. Rejecting the law politicians will not only push the research in this country back of centuries but they will open the door to a very dangerous policy, of a religion controlling legislation, which is a grave threaten for the democracy.

Ranieri, Cobham, Surrey/UK

Virtually all legislation (perhaps all), in any country, has some moral or ethical component. Even tyrannies pass laws which they think are right - destruction of the class or race enemy for instance.
The present bill clearly has a large ethical component. To say that its advocates alone have an unprejudiced, balanced, 'scientific' outlook, with no moral content, is nonsense. Different moralities are competing, which is why the Government should allow a free vote. The Church is merely pointing this out. Everyone has prejudices - a priori assumptions. It is those who believe they have none, and are being wholly 'rational' and 'scientific' who are the most blinkered.

Dave, Wrexham,

Certainly any citizen is entitled to comment on political issues but there is no evidence that Keith O'Brien is truly anything more than that. There is no actual historical provenance for the Apostolic Succession or Papal Authority except one sentence of supposition by Athanaeus.( AD180.) Logically this means no evidence to support the Doctrine of infallability or celibacy or the legitimacy of hierarchical ordinations. Certainly there are also Atheists who are against this Bill, but on the basis of scientific argument and the morality and ethics implanted by nature and evolution. Without doubt we should look after our heritage but the greatest threat to the continuance of humanity is overpopulation and to fail to address this because God is expected to come riding to the rescue is in my view to cruelly pre program the demise of the planet and all human achievement.

Keith, Rayleigh, England

As an Irishman it is re-assuring to see that Catholics are still the most hated people in good old tolerant England.Cromwell must have a tear in his eye and a wry smile on his face thinking of how the English percieve themselves as so free of bigotry and not recognising that he blood of the past is still on their hands .If you change the words "Catholic" in these comments for Jewish,Gay or Black their would be an enquiry and apologies all round.But you have a little penchant in England for Catholic bashing mostly in ignorance that belies your supposed enlightenment

David Power, rome, italy

As always, "The Church" is a little short on humility. If science had been constrained by the strictures of "The Church", we'd still be living in the Middle Ages.

Ken Leyland, Liverpool, U.K.

Once again we see the Church trying to control our lives. The decision whether or not to use stem cell research or anything else for that matter should be left to the scientists, medical professionals and elected govenment . I do not re call having been given the opportunity to vote for a religious leader of any faith. Lets keep the democratic process so everyone can have a say and not the un elected monority.

N.Kendall, Cooper city , Florida USA

Cardinal O'Brien had a scientific background!! I heard a few Talibans in Afghanistan were doctors and one even a surgeon. When it comes to religion, science becomes the victim. I have experience of chatting with Catholic doctors who until the topics of IVF and contraception come up chat with reason and moderation, but the Papal spirit takes over when these names and reasoning takes a back seat!!!

Gerry, Southampton,

Dick from Aberdeen:

'Anyone who casts their vote on religious grounds is no better than the Taliban.'

Seriously? Anyone who thinks crossing a human with a cow is a bad idea equates to a fundamentalist who supports terrorists, public executions and flogging for adultery?

Have a word with yourself, Dick.

Tom, Glasgow,

Have the Brits taken leave of their senses ?? Do you not fear God in the least?? I now understand why London will go under water completely......I will stop praying for clemency with the British should this law pass.

Andrew, Sacaramento , California

Cardinal O' Brien is absolutely right. You don't need to be a Catholic or a Christian to see that. Whilst there is a lot of evidence that Adult stem cell research is good (and the Catholics support this) there has not been one piece of evidence to show that Embryo stem cell research produces benefit. Indeed there is a signficant body of scientific opinion which says that it is simply not accurate to say that embryonic stem cells have therapeutic potential - including people who testified to the House of Lords and were in favour of the research in principle. The BSE crisis shows what happens when science runs untrammelled without an ethical, political, element . In Germany (which has had a bad experience of eugenics without morals) this research would attract a nine year jail sentence. We have had Frankenstein foods, let's not have Frankenstein science.

Bruce Finch, Portsmouth, Hampshire

John Ledbury, Kings Lynn, England says: "The cardinal chap is a mediaeval superstition monger with no scientific training. Why is anyone prepared to listen to him?"
Factually incorrect. His Eminence Keith Patrick Cardinal O'Brien graduated BSc honours in Mathematics and Chemistry from the University of Edinburgh in 1959 and later, in 1966, obtained the Post Graduate Diploma in Secondary Education at Moray House College of Education, Edinburgh. From 1966 until 1971,while serving as a priest, he was also employed full time by Fife County Council as a teacher of Maths, Chemistry and General Science.
I presume Mr Ledbury is similarly well qualified to offer opinions on scientific matters?
Of course, Cardinal O'Brien cannot claim the sort of scientific expertise of another Catholic priest, Monsigonr Georges Edouard Lemaitre SJ. This Belgian Jesuit and Cosmologist having come up the Big Bang Theory is in a different league altogether. But he would have agreed with the Cardinal.

Hugh McLoughlin, Bellshill, Lanarkshire

Marita: "the human being is supposed to be the most highly evolved animal on this planet".

I don't think this is true. We are the most intelligent by some benchmarking methods yes but 'evolved' does not pre-suppose this as the single factor. Bacteria are more successful than us by almost any measurement (number, diversity, ability to cope with extreme conditions etc.); amoeba have the largest genome so are the most complex (or 'evolved') genetically and I personally wouldn't feel confident in a fist fight with a grizzly bear.

The world was not created for us, we are one species amongst a plethora. Good at some things bad at others. People would be well served to have a bit of modesty and not be swayed by the biblical "god's image" nonsense.

tuppensworth, newbury, berks

Is this country run by the Government or by the Church?

Steve, Bath,

Why make this a Catholic vs anti cath debate?
Why are people so worked up about church expressing its views on a moral issue.
Why not put aside personal hatred towards the church and religion as a whole and actually listen to the reasons why they oppose the bill
to clarify
- the church has every right to express its views and those of its flock
- Irrespective of what the church says, The final decision on whether this bill will be passed or not will reside with the uk parliament, so let things take their due course so stop the hatred.
- This is a moral issue and many non catholics share the same views astheir catholic brethren. it's a duty for every citizen to listen toboth arguments and then support the one they think will protect the dignity of the human person.
- I think your attacks should be directed at the govt for their refusal to allow a conscience vote on a moral issue suh as this.
- Every UK citizen should think long and hard before accusing others of intolerance.

charbel azzi, Sydney, Australia

What I cannot understand is this. If an "atheist" is correct in his views about the existence of a God - a certainty that will only be known when he/she dies - then the importance of that outcome is small and of little comfort. If, on the other hand, the "atheist" is wrong, then the outcome of that mistake - again, only realised when he/she dies - is potentially infinite. Given that balance, I cannot understand why some people are not willing to spend even a small fraction of the time that, for example, a Jesuit priest does (12-15 years) trying to study the existence or nature of God.
Another question....For those who have decided that a God does not exist, why the need for such insults, aggression and abusiveness (e.g. W Dunseith) aimed at those who do believe in a God and who worship Him? Surely you should be comfortable and at ease with your views and not so angry and abusive in promoting them. (Therein, I suspect, lies the truth of your belief and thought).

David, London, UK

They have not explained this very well or more likely the press (and the church) has overblown it.
A very early embryo is called a blastocyst and consists of approximately 150 cells. The blastocyst is a spherical cell mass. it contains a fluid-filled cavity, a cluster of cells called the inner cell mass (from which embryonic stem cells are derived) and an outer layer of cells called the trophoblast. A blastocyst is about the size of a pinhead. So we are talking about a collection of cells that are already being used in bone marrow transplants and leukemia treatment and offer the possibility of a renewable source of replacement cells and tissues to treat a myriad of diseases, conditions, and disabilities including Parkinson's and Alzheimer's diseases, spinal cord injury, stroke, burns, heart disease, diabetes, osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis.
It hurts no one and helps many, what more could one ask for!

Craig Senior, Ringwood, Hants, UK

Thank God (my CoE one) for Henry VIII. Without him .....

Peter, Genova, Italy

It used to be the case that most Catholics in Scotland would vote for a chimpanzee if it was wearing a red rosette. However, that was in the days when they could be sure the chimp was genetically 100% a chimp.

Tom, Glasgow,

Like others I believe that the attempt to isolate Catholics is a deliberate device to divide opinion. This is a humanitarian issue and one which we all need to consider very carefully on the basis of the facts.
I do have a wider concern about any bill that has to be forced through via a three line whip? If it is such a good idea then why??

cj, nottinghamshire,

Insulin, used to treat diabetes, is made by inserting human DNA ino host cells (such as E.coli). Hybrids are already being used to save lives.
The Catholic Church is simply scaremongering. As with the gay adoption outcry, the cardinals are trying to exert political influence at the expense of people's well-being.

Paul M, Reading, UK

As the human being is supposed to be the most highly evolved animal on this planet, I am totally confused as to why anyone would want to create embryos with animals supposedly less developed than humans, 'in the name of progress'.

I have frequently despised the Roman Catholic view of research, illness, and lifestyles, but whether RC or not, not only does this research not make sense, or has not been properly explained , but seems to want to create dangerous and cruel, aberrations. In anybody's God's name , WHY?

Marita, Mulhouse,

We need to look at the proposal, prescinding somewhat from where the most vocal opposition is coming.

Father Bryan Storey, Tintagel, UK

Church and science have never really been a a match made in heaven. And so often they rant and rave about how some aspects of science are akin to the devils, what absolute rubbish. And to quote Albert Einstein ,Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.

Clive, Dartford, Kent

The issue is whether there should be a free vote or not for Labour MPs has been already granted for the MPs of all the other parties. This is obviously a moral matter as all your correspondents say and moral matters have always allowed MPs to follow their conscience as to what they think is best for their constituents, not just to have to follow slavishly the Labour Party whip.

George, Bolton., England

I disagree with this but not as a Catholic, as a human being. I agree with those who say this is not just a Catholic issue, it is an issue for all of us. Putting faith in scientists to do the 'right' thing, for me, wouldn't be an option.

judy, Liverpool, England

I don't think they're casting their vote on religious grounds, DickW, so much as on moral and ethical grounds. I'm no extremist Anglican, but even I have serious reservations about this bill. Human/animal embryonic hybrids? The thought it terrifying. I'm only willing to allow so much tampering with the laws of nature before I have to draw the line. I didn't like the cloning of the sheep in 1997, and this is even more terrifying.

Skylar Baker-Jordan, Basingstoke, England

Irrespective of the rightness of this bill, I wish that more MPs would vote in line with their conscience or their constituents interest rather than as instructed by the whips

KW, Bognor Regis, England

The Catholic Church is opposed to this because it knows cutting edge science is erroding its God of Gaps concept of the world bit by bit. A few hundred years ago it railed against astronomy for the same reasons. Now it is worried because cell research goes against its ridiculous notions of where human souls reside and when they are created. Appealing to populist misconceptions of science by banding terms like 'grotesque' and 'frankenstein' about is no way to win an argument. At the end of the day, human beings don't live in petri dishes and petri dishes with a few cells in don't have rights.

James G, london,

Copernicus burned at the stake!?!?!?!? These Dawkins-folks are really creative in their retrospective history...

NC, Shropshire,

In th quiet of their own hearts, does ANYONE think that this (totally unnecessary) bill is a good one? And what is the difference between the actions that this bill will allow and the horrors of Joseph Mengele's experiments in Auschwitz? Either one is a human being, or one is not. It doesn't matter whether you are the beautiful woman or man in the world or a single cell a moment after conception. Without Christianity, the industrialised, utilitarian world is very fast now going into the night.

Benedict Carter, Moscow, Russia

Superstitious cranks must not be allowed to halt progress that will help millions.

greg, Wigan, England

Anyone who casts their vote on religious grounds is no better than the Taliban.

DickW, Aberdeenshire, Scotland

"There are many leading Catholic scienists across the world and the RC Church consults them as necessary."
Andrew Misiura, Gloucester,

Probably in the same way the Catholic Church consulted on the location of the Earth in the Solar System just before they had Copernnicus burned at the stake.

Chris, London,

wow,virtually all the british issues in one go.
is a mp responsible to his constituents or his religion, when it comes to voting in the commons?
a scot telling a scot what to do on matters that effect the uk, and the majority of english.
a catholic demanding obedience to a faith, brought into disrepute by child abuse and blind dogma on contraception.
o brien can voice his views but not demand.

john haydon rowe, javea,

sorry, have just reread the article.
i note that non catholic mp s , who have large number of catholics as their voters are taking soundings on this subject.
what is wrong with catholic mp s doing the same,or do they have a right to ignore their s because of their religion

john haydon rowe, javea,

Perhaps secular liberalists should remember that Gregory Mendel was a Catholic Religous Priest and that Francis Collins is a Christian. Not too long ago, there would have been an outcry from everyone in the country about the thought of mixing human and animal genetic material to form a hybrid. To turn it into a 'Catholic' issue as MPs and some scientists are trying to do is very offensive. Do other MPs and scientists not have consciences too? Cardinal O'Brien is a human being, a man before he is a priest and it is as such first that he is fully allowed to speak out. Some scientists speak as though they alone have a say in what is acceptable or not. Far from being guided by ethics they see the latter as something to be pushed out of the way in their lust for power over life. They assure us that after they have used these embryos they will be destroyed. Which scientist is going to resist the next step: implanting such an embryo in a pig, a horse, a dog.............?

Alice J McCabe, Doncaster, UK

Catholic MPs have no right to abstain or whatever on personal grounds Democracy demands that they represent the aspirations of the people in their constituency. There are too many MPs grinding their own axes in parliament and they use the excuse of Parliamentry Democracy to do so. That is the we know better than you attitude, THEY DO NOT.

Dave Madley, Alicante, Spain

The bill will make it legal for people to screen out embryos with disabilities and remove the requirement to consider the need for a father. What does this communicate to all of us about less-abled people and about fatherhood? The bill actually contradicts itself: on one hand it would (definitely) allow the de-selection of babies with potential disabilities; on the other it would allow experiments which could (possibily) provide treatment for those with disabilities. Successful alternatives to using embryos exist for producing stem cells.

There are many non-religious people who are against this bill. In a democracy, the catholic church can express their opposition. It does not mean that they are 'forcing it upon the rest of us'.

Tell me, would the people who support this bill not be sickened in the slightest if it were their own sperm or ova that was mixed with that of an animal's and made to live for 14 days? Or is it only acceptable if it is someone else's?

I Antao, London, United Kingdom

This is an important piece of legislation that will enable medical science to make real progress. The Cardinal does not seem to be able to understand the science involved in the issue and is making wild unsubstantiated claims using his limited knowledge on the subject. He needs to be educated.

steve, bristol, uk

There is no evidence that these experiments will have any medical benefits whatsoever, there have been experiments on human embryos for 17 years and they have yielded nothing!

However, adult stem cells DO show signs of treating all the diseases and afflictions. Do people not understand this?

This shouldn't be a religious issue. Does this government and those supporting it not have any regard for the value of the human and the human identity?

I don't think that it is an exaggeration to state th this legislation is part of a sleep walk into a "Brave New World" here in the UK.

The consequences of such actions will emerge, be that in 1 or 20 years, for all to see, just as every tampering with nature dressed up as "progressive" science has done in the past...

M Hunt, London,

As an atheist I rarely find myself agreeing with any clerics, however the the creation of human-animal hybrid embryos is the kind of 'science' of which Josef Mengele would have approved. That the government endorses it in the name of 'progress', shows that, if there were any doubt before, we are now ruled by the National Socialist Labour Party.

Paul, Coventry,

Very clever of the government to isolate a minority like the Roman Catholics on this issue and pretend they are the only opposition.
I think the reality is that far more people than are in the Catholic church are opposed to this but the government is very fond of steamrollering legislation through parliament and ignoring public opinion. And that is why they are the most useless government that this country has ever seen.

Mr G, Leeds , UK

Never trust a member of Parlaiment and keep the politicians out and far away from the church.

S af Ugglas , NYHAMNSLAGE, Sweden

Dr Andrew Misiura BSc PhD Cert Ed FHEA MBChA MSSCh
The suggestion that Catholics do not understand science and hence make ignorant comments is yet another example of the arrogance of certain scientists, including the likes of Dr Minger and Prof Dawkins. There are many leading Catholic scienists across the world and the RC Church consults them as necessary. As a Scientist and a Christian I fully endorse Cardinal O'Brien's concerns and thank God we have such religious leaders that are prepared to speak out on such important issues of the day.

Andrew Misiura, Gloucester,

Many Catholics have died for the faith.

Our cabinet members will not be prepared to risk their salaries.

eddie foster, mirthios, crete, greece

A lot of very religious people seem to have very strong convictions on this ...It reminds me a lot of the abortion debate back in Ireland in the late 80's, and I suspect it stems from that.
What I would say to these people....do they have the courage of their convictions , and object to specific projects by name, in front of an ethics committee or peer review body, and have any (and all...and i do mean all) benefits of the specified research denied to them SOLELY as a group without further consultation?
Just because britain is multicultural, do you ban alcohol? Just dont allow people with a burkha to buy any! Or should this be voluntary?..If someone comes up with a cure for Parkinsons from this , I might be thanking them later.I certainly WONT be thanking the priest giving me the last rites and shuffling me off to an early grave.... Oh, and by the way,CJD and BSE didnt cross a species barrier. They're proteins we are genetically susceptible to and were always there.

mike, maidenhead, uk

It was only 70 years ago that state-sponsored medical research was conducted on subjects classified as sub-human, with a portion of European intelligentsia buying into the canard--how soon we forget. Utilitarianism indeed.

John, Omaha, USA

Embryo research has been going for 17 years. It has produced, nothing, I repeat nothing, in terms of cures for disease.
Adult stem cell research ( where the cells are taken from an adult and therefore non controversial) has produced more than 70 cures and treatments for disease, including Parkinsons, leukaemia, Chrohn's, replacement tissue for heart muscle and diabetes.

If we mix cows eggs with human DNA, we are crossing the species barrier. The species barrier is there to prevent disease crossing from one species to another. I think its worth pointing out that the last disease to cross the cow/human barrier was BSE, becoming Creuzfeldt Jakobs disease in humans. What's worse is that, if this does go wrong, we can't just reverse it. We will have to live with the consequences, and the worst case scenario is that it could wipe us out.
You may not like the Cardinal or Catholics, but he is absolutely right on this issue.

julie, edinburgh, uk

Combining a human (embryo) and an animal (embryo) is an aberration, whether it is said by a Catholic Cardinal or by anyone else.
The Cardinal is right and the British Catholics should fight against such abominable Bill.

Tato Dulanci, Vitoria, Spain

why are they now so concerned about a few cells when massive levels of child sex abuse were covered up to the highest levels.

tim blair, Peterborough, UK

Good for the Cardinal. Now lets hear the Archbishop of Canterbury speak out and all the Free Church leaders too.

Steve, London, UK

The time will come when VOTERS have their say - the Scottish Catholics who up to now have kept Brown and his ilk clinging dubiously to power at Westminster with just 24% of the electorate supporting him.

What will he do when facing the loss of his Labour seats in Scotland? Declare an emergency, repeal the Parliament Act and remain in 10 Downing Street?

RevJohn, Guildford,

I now understand why Prime Minister Brown isn't particularly bothered by charges that he is anti-Catholic. He has quite the constituency, especially among those who contribute to this Times forum, and who consider themselves progressive, liberal, enlightened, rational and modern. All of which they diminish when, at a loss in defending a position, they shout "Stupid, medieval, superstitious Catholics!" How very enlightened, progressive, tolerant of diversity and modern these free-thinkers are! And by the way, to bring facts rather than invective and prejudice to the discussion, Catholics have not been "in charge" for nearly 500 years in your beloved England, having been banned in general for centuries and remaining banned from your very modern monarchy, to which your government and subjects owe allegiance and loyalty. Slightly ironic, wouldn't you say? Yes, and so very rational, modern and liberating, at that.

john p, York, USA/PA

A truly disgusting body of people.

If it were not for man, these superstitious idealogues and fools would still be telling us to pary will make all things better.

Go away and live your life a you please catholics, but don't you dare tell anyone else what to do.

As your kind condemn millions in Africa to an early, horrible death, you have NO moral high ground to state anything,

G.Grahm, London,

As the ineffectiveness of drugs and antibiotics grows ever worse in the face of nature's response to such remedies, we are now forced to look elsewhere for ways to counter nature's assault on our well being. There are alternatives, of course, as per the survival of a very few fittest. In the first world, science has made it possible for the average life expectancy to exceed three score and ten by a considerable margin. But in Nepal, for instance, it barely reaches three score.

Following The Catholic Church with regard to the science being objected to would probably reduce the world's population by at least 2-3 billion by 2050. Then again, the Catholic Church has previous form when it comes to the thinning of populations, as its anti-condom policies in Africa and South America clearly demonstrated.

Furthermore, no one is being forced to submit to the fruits of any science deemed too monstrous for Catholics. And if such science is not done in Europe, it will certainly be done in China and /or India, for example, and the Chinese and/or Indians will reap the economic benefits of a whole new technology.

Charles Smyth, Belfast, Northern Ireland

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
- Galileo Galilei

Just as apt to day as it was 400 years ago.

Brian Brown, Liverpool, UK

Here we go again - doesn't Easter always bring out the caped crusaders from the Catholic Church to pontificate about things that shouldn't concern them. Although, I guess it's highly appropriate, at this time, for them to talk about Frankenstein, being yet another fantasy about the dead coming back to life !! I didn't vote for my 'Catholic MP' - I voted for someone who has, in my view, more important attributes other than a belief in the supernatural. As I recall her election addresss didn't even mention her religious beliefs as being important - wisely in my view, as she would have lost my vote immediately. I will check before voting for her again, however, just in case she in anyway feels at all swayed by the Cardinal's drivel. By the way, does the unelected Cardinal ever allow his flock a 'free vote' on issues like contraception, abortion, or stem cell research ?

TD , London,

MPs are elected to represent their constituants and NOT the views of any church. The view of each MP is irrelevant; the view of their constituants is paramount. And the views of any pressure group, be it a church or not, is irrelevant.

Chris, Ashford, Middlesex, UK

Umbilical chord blood creates all the stem cells needed without using real babies or simu-children. It also is reproducible without a real human being. There are larger much more serious questions to ask, like are we too drawn to cannibalism, are we offending God, will there be genetic defects with no recourse for the human race. I applaud prolife and anti-euthenasia (aka sanctity of life). But, many uneducated people, both scientists and plebes, do not know there are plenty of non embryonic alternatives.

FYI: would be nice if your little times popup did spell checking

Jeff Dunham, Yacolt, USA/ WA

the cardinal is absolutely right to speak out against this horrendous piece of utilitarian, anti - human legislation. And to those contributors here who think that the cardinal is trying to dictate to the country - well, no, he's not. He is employing free speech, as he is entitled to do, like the rest of us. Although some so - called liberals would like to forbid christians that liberty.........

michael, harrogate, UK

Sorry to be so simplistic,Rowan Williams I aint,but if you asked the Cardinal why there was so much misery and suffering in the world among the people so loved by God he would explain that He gave us free will.When we use the free will to better our lot, God's representitive on Earth, a few hundred times removed, tells us it is monsterous.
There is a debate needed abut the "morality " of what we do with our intellect ,so that It is ordered in saftey.Would the debate be better informed by beliefs that have opposed pretty well every fundimental advance in science for the last few hundred years?
The gentleman,as a leader among his adherents,should have an imput but I would rather hear from Charles Darwin and that Galileo fellow.

robert everitt, wolverhampton,

The Catholic Church is behaving just as badly as those demanding sharia law in Britain. The Church is the Church and it should realise that it is not in charge of British law. Demanding that the government follows the catholic Church's instructions is disgraceful. At the end of the day if the catholic church are so against this research then they are free to refuse treatment that is based on it just as they are free to refuse abortions. Some religins also disagree with blood transfusions, but can one imagine that outcry if that was banned.

anon, uk,

"Blind guides! They strain out a gnat, yet swallow a camel." (Mt 23:24) "Go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." (Mt 9:13)

Pete, Encino, U.S.A. California

Just heard an arrogant gov't spokesperson on BBC R4 World At one - go for the jugular Keith. !!!

Ian Payne, WALSALL,

Let us all be "missionary" then Cardinal especially those of us blessed with the skills to eventually erradicate the human race of unbearable sicknesses and disabilities. I have Cerebellar Ataxia an all the praying in the world has not yet found a cure for this disability. The medical research required using human embyos is not about turning life into a monster; it is about using immature organisms for the further research for the benefit of mankind. To object to this important research is immoral and unethical - not the other way around.

Rodney Barker, Lincolnshire, England UK

Mr Chris are you saying that anyone who objects to this Bill should be ignored, condemned and forbidden to express their opinion? These Ministers were elected to represent their constituents, perhaps some of THE Times forget, but in the UK there are Christians and Catholics who still live there.

What happened to free speech, and democracy? Is this a privilege reserved only for the non-Christians?

Embryos are not merely a group of inert cells which scientists, however noble their motivations, can indiscriminately perform experiments. Unless it escaped your knowledge, you and I started our existence as embryos. Embryos are living beings, with the undeniable potential of becoming human beings.

mari-lou, La Spezia, Italy

How can the scientific and medical community condone such research? Quite literally, this bill is inhuman, and inhumane. As the species at the top or apex of the animal kingdom, we have the ability for superior reason and decision-making, which places upon us a responsibility for the sanctity and preservation of the animal kingdom. Shouldn't we be making efforts to preserve the species on Earth rather than creating potential problems?

Very simply this has the same tenor as the opening of Pandora's Box.

Chris, London, UK

Christians are defending the human race by opposing this bill, which only serves to glorify science. It is primitive and perhaps medieval to consider creating a half human, half animal life.
Surely our country has more respect for itself than to go down this path. Unfortunately it would appear that our government doesn't and is once again pandering to the 'all-knowing' world of science.

Dominic, York, UK

Robert of Oxford, if you want to have a dig at the Catholic church, fine. But you seem to assume that the only people agreeing with the Cardinal on this issue are 'medieval' Catholics. You are sadly mistaken.
For the record, I am most definitely not Catholic (as you clearly didn't gather from my previous post). Nor would I consider myself 'medieval' or anti-science, as I work for a company that closely supports many of the most 'high-tech' laboratories in this country.
To suggest we would all still be living in caves if we didn't all go along with scientists creating half human, half animal hybrids is plain daft.
I somehow doubt that the vast majority of people opposed to these 'frankenstein' scientists would have been opposed to the development of bricks, mortar and the wheel etc.

Richard, St Albans,

Im sorry, but I was under the impression that British MPs swore allegiance to the Queen, not the Pope?

On what other issues would Rome like to dictate Britisn government policy?

Sean O Murchu, dublin, eire

The Catholic church is made up of individual members each of whom has a vote.It should not attempt to enforce its opinion on the vast majority of the country who by choice are non-Catholic .

peter robins, Audierne, france

I admire the fact that, in the context of their beliefs, many Catholics draw a logical conclusion from their premise of the soul, presumed to be present from conception onwards, and attempt to protect all embryos regardless of their state of development. Equally in the context of civil society it is good that they are peacefully attempting to attain their beliefs by changing the law, rather than trying to enforce their beliefs on the rest of us by direct action.
However, the Cardinal's words are intemperate, and he is significantly misguided.
It is a good thing that the Government here is prepared to permit, and attempting to properly regulate, a promising area of biological research.

As with animal experimentation, it is much better for all concerned to have this research being done in a proper regulatory set-up in this country than drive it to somewhere with fewer qualms that may not regulate at all. This Bill is uncharacteristically far-sighted for this Government.

Guy, Oxford,

Just for once I agree with the Catholic church. But for different reasons. I am all for stem cell research, anything that will definitively offer better medicine. But I am completely against the idea of abusing other animal species' for this reason.

We already treat our own lives with contempt, and the environment's, without further increasing our abuse of other animals in order to facilitate cures for what are when all is said and done, lifestyle diseases and naturally occuring conditions.

Other animals simply offer no comparison to the human organism and it is shoddy science to think they do. The facts speak for themselves. The biggest and most successful outcomes for research come from clinical human testing and in-vitro studies, not from torturing other animals to death.

I have no problem with Catholics raising their hackles over this, but they have no right to dictate to others using what amounts to hypocritical morality. Facts first and foremost please.

Jennifer Hynes, Plymouth, England

The gospel writers make a point of telling is that Christ did not hesitate to heal the sick on the Sabbath. Given the choice between on the one hand committing a sacrilegious act, or on the other hand allowing human suffering to go undiminished, he led by clear example.

Not for the first time, the often difficult moral relativism of Christ's teaching and example finds itself openly opposed by the comfortable moral absolutism of the churches which bear his name.

The dilemma currently faced by Paul Murphy and other Catholic MPs is NOT between church and party, but between church and conscience. Let's hope they are wise enough to realise that.

Ian Kemmish, Biggleswade, UK

They should get back into their cloisters. Its not as if the scientists will be making "beast with two backs" Frankensteins - half priest, half boy.

Antonio, Estepona, Spain

Whether this is good or bad ... the last thing we want is priests making laws - especially an outfits like the Catholic Church or Islam with their records of repression.

Sean, Coventry, UK

When are the interfering, sanctimonious, interfering busybodys who style themselves as 'church leaders' going to learn that they only represent a shrinking minority, and that their views are completely at odds with logic and reason?

There is no place in modern society for religion of any hue and certainly no place for any degree of influence on the way this country is governed.

We pride ourselves as living in an informed democracy, yet these unelected numptys are allowed and even encouraged, to set themselves up in positions of influence.

They believe in a fairy story, they maintain their influence over their followers by a combination of fear and ignorance and they should be prevented from inhibiting the progress of society.

Garry O'Brien, Carterton, Oxfordshire

The Cardinal's irrational attack on science will come as no surprise to anyone with a basic historical knowledge of the Roman Church. Galileo, remember, was not absolved of heresy until 1992!

In a few hundred years time the Vatican's attitude to embryo research will have changed; and the valuable contribution made to the world by these pioneering scientists will be widely acknowledged.

Des, Edinburgh,

The catholic church is welcome to revel in its ignorance and medieval ways. But please don't try to force it upon the rest of us.

And Richard, St Albans, I feel that is a very narrow minded view. If everyone took that attitude we would still be living in caves. Science has made huge progress in the study of human disease. And there is more to do. There always will be. But to say we should stop learning, stop discovering, is a foolish attitude.

I wish that people who are clearly ignorant of the science behind this to stop wittering on about 'frankensteins' and the such. I freely admit that I don't understand the science. Very few people do. But I trust the scientific process, which very rarely goes wrong.
To claim to have special knowledge, based solely upon a centuries old book, seems the grossest arrogance. The catholic church doesnt have a great track record when it comes to science

Robert, Oxford,

Everybody is entitled to their own particular views be they religious or not however if a way of curing mankinds dreadful ills lies in this type of experimentation then so be it. I for one bow to these researchers expertise. Cardinal O'Brien should remember that most people in this country do not subscribe to religious mumbo jumbo of any kind and certainly not the Cardinals brand.

Chris, Aberdeen,

The Roman Catholic church ceased to lay down the law in this land since the time of Henry VIII. Long may that remain so. Indeed the time has passed for any organised religious body to have influence of this nature.

Chris, Ashford, Middlesex, UK

While he is quite right that this bill is monstrous and not only condones but supports evil practices, it is sad that he is using Easter Day to preach on the matter.

By doing so he is failing to preach the Gospel of Christ crucified and risen again - for only by acceptance of that Gospel message will anyone be able to truly understand or live a righteous life.

Bishop Dominic Stockford, Teddington, Middlesex,

If it sounds sick, it probably is sick. This stuff is normally confined to sci-fi horror 'B' movies for a reason. You don't need to be a Catholic, Christian or medieval to think that, Jon!
There's simply no good reason to be mucking around with nature in this way.
And no, I don't think the scientist's mantra of "it will save lives" washes much anymore with most people. If that were the case, we would have long since done away with most debillitating and life-threatening diseases.
This simply 'science' for the benefit of scientists, not the general population. Lets keep this nonsense in a horror film please.

Richard, St Albans,

What next Jon Rose, allowing the embryo's to live to 12 years old to harvest the organs for the benefits of modern science.

We cannot afford the costs of basic medical treatments for all, with hospitals being closed by New Labour to finance their Holy Wars overseas. How on earth can this science be right, on both moral and financial grounds it fails, just like the Labour Party.

Laurence, Chichester, UK

Well done government on this issue i back you,this is the best way to to see how humans react to diseases, to research hereditary mental problems, physical and mental disabilities to find cures or ways to manipulate the genome so that in future those born with these horrendous diseases and disabilties may have a chance at normal lives, by changeing the gene structure to become a normal human.
The Catholic religion has to get out of the medival times, you are not in control anymore, and its about time catholics joined the human race instead of thinking they are the chosen ones!

jon rose, GT Torrington, uk