Richard Owen of The Times in Rome
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King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, which is the home of Islam's most holy shrines and adheres to a hardline Wahhabi version of Sunni Islam, has for the first time announced plans to launch a dialogue between Islam, Christianity and Judaism.
"I want to call for conferences between the religions to protect humanity from folly," he told a forum in Riyadh. He referred to his ground breaking talks in Rome last November with Pope Benedict XVI, saying "I wanted to visit the Vatican and I did, and I thank him. He met me in a meeting I will not forget, a meeting of one human being with another. I suggested this idea".
"If God wills it, we will then meet with our brothers from other religions, including those of the Torah and the Gospel to come up with ways to safeguard humanity," he added. The king, who is the guardian of the holy sites of Mecca and Medina, said the major faiths shared a desire to combat "the disintegration of the family and the rise of atheism in the world".
According to the official Saudi Press Agency King Abdullah said "I have noticed that the family system has weakened and that atheism has increased. That is an unacceptable behavior to all religions, to the Koran, the Torah and the Bible. We ask God to save humanity. There is a lack of ethics, loyalty and sincerity for our religions and humanity."
He said he had secured support of Saudi clerics, but did not name them. The Saudi king's move came as members of a new Catholic Muslim Forum set up by the Vatican and Islamic leaders deplored Pope Benedict's Easter baptism of an Egyptian-born Italian Muslim as "provocative and triumphalist."
Aref Ali Nayed, director of the Royal Islamic Strategic Studies Centre in Amman and a leading figure in a group of 138 Muslim scholars who helped to launch the Forum, called on the Pope to distance himself from an attack on Islam by Magdi Allam in Corriere della Sera, of which he is a deputy editor, describing it as an inherently violent faith which encouraged hate and intolerance.
The Forum, which is to hold its first meeting in Rome in November, arose in the aftermath of the Popes remarks at Regensburg University in Germany in 2006 in which appeared to characterise Islam as evil, inhumane and irrational. After the Pope made clear he had been misunderstood 138 Muslim scholars - whose numbers have since risen to over 200 - then wrote an open letter to him entitled "The Common Word" offering a dialogue.
Nayed, head of the Royal Islamic Strategic Studies Centre in Amman, said other Muslim members of the new Forum agreed with him, but stopped short of suggesting that the new Catholic-Muslim dialogue had been derailed by the baptism. He said Magdi Allam's conversion was his personal decision and had no doubt been influenced by the journalist's 35 year stay in Italy and his earlier education at a Salesian Catholic school in Egypt.
But he found it "sad that the particular person chosen for such a highly public gesture has a history of generating, and continues to generate, hateful discourse." Arab newspapers also deplored the baptism, with the Saudi daily al-Watan described Mr Allam as a pro Israeli writer who had "worked tirelessly to attack Islam".
Several Arab papers said the conversion would not have attracted such attention if it had been less high profile. Nayed said the Pope's involvement made it look as if the Vatican was "scoring points", provoking "genuine questions about the motives, intentions and plans of some of the Pope's advisers on Islam".
He added: "But we will not let this unfortunate episode distract us from our work on pursuing 'A Common Word' for the sake of humanity and world peace. Our basis for dialogue is not a tit-for-tat logic of reciprocity."
L'Osservatore Romano, the Vatican newspaper, said the baptism of Mr Allam did not imply any hostility toward Islam, since "religious freedom includes the freedom to change one's religion".
Mr Allam, who has been an Italian citizen since 1986, says he has never been a practising Muslim. He said about his most recent book is "Viva Israel", "I discovered that at the origin of the ideology of hatred, violence and death is discrimination against Israel." His previous books include "Kamikaze made in Europe: Will the West defeat Islamic terrorists?".
In Corriere della Sera on Sunday he said he had concluded that "beyond the phenomenon of the extremists and of Islamic terrorism on a worldwide level, the root of the evil is inherent in an Islam that is physiologically violent and historically conflictual." His conversion had freed him from a faith marked by "hate and intolerance toward he who is different, toward he who is condemned as an enemy".
In television interviews he said he was aware that death threats against him, which have forced him to have police protection since 2003, could now increase. But he said Pope Benedict "wanted to give a signal to the Church throughout the world" that whoever wanted to join it would be accepted.
Mr Allam recently attacked Dr Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury, over his remarks on the application of Sharia law in the United Kingdom. "This is the degenerate product of the multicultural ideology" he said. "These declarations are the proof that an insidious process, the Islamisation of European society, is already well under way".
King Abdullah's announcement follows reports that the Vatican is holding exploratory talks with Riyadh aimed at obtaining permission to build the first church in Saudi Arabia, following the inauguration of Qatar's first Christian church. Only Islam is permitted in Saudi Arabia, but the number of Catholic foreign workers resident in the country has risen to nearly a million.
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Is this a step forward for interfaith dialogue or a cheap way of giving Filipino slave labourers nominal freedom to worship instead of human rights?
The Saudi royal family worry about Islamic radicals who label them as 'false Muslims' , not other despots who use religion to deter democracy.
Stuart Hartill, Ramsey, Isle of Man,
King Abdullah in truth is calling for a dialogue between the 'priesthoods' of the various religions and not their respective congregations.
Ian, London, GB
I appreciate is very much that King Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz Al Saud decides to start an interfaith dialogue. May he be blessed by the Most High. I believe that this dialogue was the very reason why Islam was blooming like a flower some centuries ago. The tolerance of people of other faith is needed.
Ralf Biermann, Schwerte, Germany
i belive that this talk of the one world religion means the end of times "the antichrist" if you are a christin then i suggest that you be prepared and have get as many people as you can too convert too christan faith there isnt much time left dont be like the people on the Titanic thinking that you have plenty of time left or that you are in no danger get saved and get your butt too heaven for the battle of Armmagton god needs more troops we must defeat the enemys of christ the lord and we will.!!!
Samuel, Bedford , PA USA
Fore the record, let's us normal people clear up some basic facts for the religious crowd, be they Jewish, Muslim or Christian:
(1) the sun doesn't stand still in the sky because the sun doesn't revolve around the earth;
(2) people don't ride flying horses ANYWHERE, let alone to Jerusalem;
(3) virgins don't have babies.
Somebody please tell "King" Abdullah and that Nazi Anti-aircraft gunner that there are millions of us raising nice, normal, rational families without the benefit of made up crap, whether that crap be about Moses, Mohammed or a certain Jewish zombie carpenter.
P.S. To the Xtians: it ain't about how he died. It's about how he LIVED. Difficult, I know, but work at it.
Bob Kncaid, Beckley, WV, USA
Nathan you are talking about FAMILIES, not a whole State, even if each person who belives in God is considered part of the christian family, Mr Allam trid for years to shock the public with his books, and now he gained his goal with what should be a private and familiar moment. As I already said, i welcome him in the christian cmunity, but as a student interested in the problems of the muslim comunity i must blame his decision
Alice , venice, italy
If the Saudi king had said any group of people OTHER than "atheist" there would have been an uproar. Last time I checked, 15 of the 19 hijackers on the 9/11 attacks were both Saudi and Muslim. Not a single atheist. Anyhow, these talks would accomplish little since I'm sure all sides will refuse to acknowledge any faults of their own and it looks like at least one guy has issues being able to see other human beings as equal.
Liz, Brooklyn,
Baptism is a public declaration of one's faith.
It is a proclaimation of one's acceptance of Christ as personal saviour by the individual. A statement of acceptance of that individual by the faith community and creedal affirmation of the faith by that community.
It is supposed to be high profile. It is supposed to be a public event. It is supposed to be a witness to the joy of the individual in his/her new found freedom and of the community in gaining a new family member.
Families celebrate marriages and the births of children i.e. when families unite or grow.
Why not Baptism - to the family of faith it is a similar happy event!
Nathan, Inverness, UK
I'm not criticizing Mr Allam for his choice, i'm just wondering why he choose such an important day, i don't belive his conversion was something he felt deep inside,i belive it' more a metter of poularity, never forget that Mr Allam provides italian readers with a new book every year
Alice , venice, italy
Muslims routinely are triumphal about any conversions that come their way, even when those conversions are forced. Why do they whine when Muslims convert to Christianity? Why do they kill those who do? Why are Christians persecuted in Muslim countries? People have the right to be any religion they want and the Pope has the right to baptize. Muslims need to get over it and enter the 21st century. If this derails talks then they would have failed anyway. Freedom of religion is not negotiable.
Jim, Washington, DC
"The Shoura Council last week defeated a proposal to adopt a law promoting respect for other religions and religious symbols. The proposal that would have had the blessings of the Arab League was opposed by 77 members and supported by 33.
In his reason for voting against the proposal, one member told Al-Watan newspaper that the negative effects might outweigh the positive ones as it would give legality to nonmonotheistic religions and consequently it would allow the building of houses of worship for those religions in Muslim countries."
http://www.arabnews.com/?page=7§ion=0&article=108283&d=27&m=3&y=2008
Alan, edinburgh,
Simon, you are right in saying that faith is a personal matter, however in my Christian walk, I try to follow in the footsteps of Jesus; he criticized the religious people of his day for their wrong beliefs and he quoted scripture while doing so: Matthew 15:1-9 (against the Pharisees), John 4:22 (against the Samaritans). Of course, with all the good he did, he still got nailed to the cross.
If Jesus were alive today, wouldn't he warn people of false beliefs still ?
If you are a Christian, you should know that true Christians do not fight human beings but wicked spiritual forces who are out there deceiving people, as plainly stated in Ephesians 6: 10-18.
Of course, many Cristian organizations have brought shame to Christs' name, because of their evil actions (Crusades, forced conversions, etc) as they tried to establish temporal power, but Jesus has an answer for them: Matthew 7: 21-23.
I wish you the best in your spiritual walk.
carmine cicchiello, adelaide, australia
There'd be no need for "interfaith talks" if there were no faiths to divide people.
No gods, no heretics, no dogmas, no fundamentalists, no fatwahs, no inquisitions, no veils, no circumcisions, no excommunications, no exorcisms, no miracles, no martyrs.
Oh, what a wonderful world ...
alan, germany,
As a member, and a proud one, of one of the faiths mentioned here, I simply regret that we're taking steps backward in having inter-faith dialogue, when surely the holy grail (if you excuse the terrible joke) is dialogue in the absence of the preconceptions of faith.
I believe it to be possible with most nations, and would be happy to see those who cannot conduct talks without taking explicit textual religious guidance excluded from grown-up international dialogue. To me, the bizarre invoking of biblical/quaranic texts (see below) has the power to make even the most rational people seem, well, nuts.
Simon, London,
Let's get back to basics.
1. Religions are man made. Many are political, some
opportunist; a few like scientology are downright
evil.
2. Faith in the supreme being (Allah, God, The Allmighty)
is personal and individual. It needs no intermediary
including popes, scholars, theorists.
3. Faith is not religion. The two things are mutually
exclusive.
4.. If there is one supreme being - one life force then, having
different, factional, competitive religions is absurd and
wrong logically.
King Abdullah has already done a great deal to introduce
tolerance, compassion and A Saudi Arabia looking outwards; taking its place on the world stage.
We should recognize he is faced with a complicated balancing act. Not alienating society factions while updating and modernizing.
He should be supported and encouraged.
Leigh Vernier, Weybridge, UK
The Judeo-Christian God is not the same God of Islam.
The Judeo-Christian God is called Jehova (Yaweh), the God of Islam is called Allah (the moon god of the Kaaba) who is some other spiritual entity trying to pass himself off as the Judeo-Christian God (2nd Corinthians 6:14-16)
The Jewish people of the Old Testament accessed God through the Aaronic priesthood (the Levites); however today without a Temple and Levites, they are on their own (Romans 9-11)
Christians access God through Jesus (John14:6) "...no one goes to the Father except by me"
Members of all other religions are accessing other spiritual entities, because God is only accessed thru Jesus as stated in John14:6 in 1st Timothy2:5 in Colossians2:8,20 and etc
Islam teaches a different Jesus and a dfferent gospel (2 Corinthians11: 4)
Muslims claim to respect and love Jesus; Jesus said: "whoever loves me will obey my teachings" (John 14:15,21,23)
Which of Jesus' teachings ( Matthew 5,6) do Muslims obey ?
carmine cicchiello, adelaide, australia
Hi! I am both troubled and saddened by the religious conflicts in the world today. If a person was to step back, listen to several different religious speakers of the various religions that worship God, and then analyze the 'works that they do', this person would quickly see, that there is no God in these people. Satan has taken a hold of the world's religions.
We are told to love and forgive; show kindness even unto our enemies; pray to God for true wisdom and not rely on the deceit and vanity of religious teachers or courts of law; and most of all, accept the persecutions of the world in peace, while we remain stedfast in righteousness. Does not God feed and clothe the godly as well as the ungodly? Are we better than God?
The Christian religion teaches that we will return to the days of Noah. Look around you. Listen to the television 'big mouths'. Watch people around you, and listen to what they speak. Are we not 'on the edge' of this return? Murder and immorality abounds.
Thorwald Johansen, Thunder Bay, Ontario
Ahmad, I thought most of the deaths in Iraq were Muslim on Muslim. While Muslims claim to respect Jesus, they don't actually study his words as revealed in the Gospels even though the Qur'an instructs them to do so.
william, Northwood, UK
In my view the Christian faith at this point of time is more fundamentalist and terrorist but in a more subtle and organised way than Islam..There may be a few terrorists that defame Islam by their actions but there are governments from the Western democracies who engage in killing of tens of thousands of Muslim civilians in places like Iraq in the garb of freedom and democracy.Muslims regard Christ as a rightful prophet almost the same level as Prophet Muhammad while Christians have always reserved titles as Impostor, evil and other animal sounding names towards the Muslim prophet.Yes, there are freedoms in Europe but don't forget that European states have other big brother mechanisms
Ahmad, London,