Ruth Gledhill, Religion Correspondent
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Five other ludicrous climate change analogies | Libby Purves: Another church leader puts his foot in it I Ruth Gledhill: Just how much more absurd can the CofE get?
Survivors of sex abuse by Christian clergy today responded with anger and shock to the Church of England bishop who said that everyone who failed to act on climate change was as guilty as Austrian child abuser Josef Fritzl.
Victims accused the bishop of being "facile and demeaning" towards Fritzl's daughter, who was kept in a cellar for 24 years, raped repeatedly and who had seven children by her own father.
The Bishop of Stafford, the Right Rev Gordon Mursell, an expert on Christian spirituality and near the bottom of the hierarchy of Anglican bishops, said that people who ignored global warming were, in effect, locking their children and grandchildren into a world without a future and throwing away the key.
Bishop Mursell, who spoke last year at a conference organised by the ultra-liberal Modern Churchpeople's Union, said in a pastoral newsletter to parishes that such people were "destroying the future of our children" and were "as guilty as" Fritzl.
The Bishop, whose comments come at the same time as the Church of England is publishing a new report complaining about the quality of its clergy, said that he was not accusing those who do nothing about global warming of being child abusers.
But he but said that shocking analogies were needed to force people to face up to the threat to the future of mankind.
In his pastoral letter, Bishop Mursell wrote: “Josef Fritzl represents merely the most extreme form of a very common philosophy of life: I will do what makes me happy, and if that causes others to suffer, hard luck.
"In fact you could argue that, by our refusal to face the truth about climate change, we are as guilty as he is - we are in effect locking our children and grandchildren into a world with no future and throwing away the key.
"We are right to be disgusted at these crimes. But mere disgust is too convenient. There are lessons for all of us to learn.”
Survivors condemned the Bishop and urged church leaders to take more action against abuse by clergy.
Margaret Kennedy, chair of Minister and Clergy Sex Abuse Survivors, an organisation that helps survivors of sex abuse by clergy, said: "It is with horror and shock that survivors sexually abused as children or as adults within Christian churches and by Christian clergy and ministers should hear their own bishop declare that perhaps buying oranges from South Africa is the equivalent to being locked into a dungeon and being raped repeatedly for 20 years by an evil father.
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Oh dear, does that mean I'm evil?
Meera, Reading, UK
This is the problem with religion of any stripe. They positively approve of sexual abuse, particularly of women, and perpertrate much of it. It's been going on for millenia and it's way past time everyone woke up and faced the facts over this matter.
thalia, london,
I am angry but not suprised by this remark he should be asked to resign. My father who was high up in the church was sentenced to 6 years for abusing me as a child. When I emailed his church all I got was ' who are we to throw the 1st stone' 'you have a father to be proud off' comments.
.
hayley barr, worle, england
As an atheist I have long held the view that religions were incapable of tackling the real moral issues, certainly not in language that is relevant to the great mass of us.
Well, I have to eat my words. Bishop Mursell has hit the nail on the head - climate criminals are going to murder millions.
Jon Fuller, Westcliff on Sea, UK
Bishop Gorden is right it is greed and power that will destroy everything and leave nothing for our future children
Mavis , Stafford, staffordshire
Yet more proof, if any was needed, that faith is the business of either the deluded or rogues.
Arnold Ward, Weybridge, Surrey, UK
To say that CO2 is or is not linked to climate change is one thing but to deny climate change altogether is completely another (Mike, London). I used to live in a city where 15 years ago it was usual in winter to have 5 - 6" of snow in the main street, whereas now we're lucky to have a few flakes.
Frank S, Durham,
Another fool who has been taken in by the fraud that is climate change. There is no science behind the rabid propagandists who are the climate change lobby. The whole thing has been dreamt up so governments can exert even more control over the individual and to stop China becoming a superpower.
Mike, London, England
Global warming may or may not be a reality. But what cannot be doubted, is the damage done by people with this idiotic belief in a god.
greg, Wigan,
The problem with equating Fritzl with climate change skeptics is the ignorance over the ramifications of global warming. Rather than those who fail to act on climate change being as bad as Fritzl, they are worse than either Hitler or Genghis Kong. "Father forgive them, they know not what they do."
Brad Arnold, St Louis Park, MN, USA
This is a clumsy statement, a rather inappropriate comparison, but I can see his point : why are we so complacent about Climate Change ? Man-made or not, our children are all going to have to face the consequences. Why aren't we getting ready for those changes now ?
Louise, Torquay,
I am amazed at the correspondents who automatically assume that global warming and man-made CO2 production are inexorably linked. This, despite the hysteria generated by politicians, is only a hypothesis as yet.
Are these the same people who unquestionably believed in New Labour ?
D.Henry, Edinburgh, Scotland UK
Galileo had a difficult time with the ignorant church proving the Copernican theory of the universe against the dominant earth-centered Ptolemaic and Aristotelian theories of his time.
So our Flat earth that everything revolves around must be warming up.
Take it on faith or be accused.
Joshua, Fountain Hills, USA
This type of religous zelot shares the same platform as his forebears during the inqustion. if he is so keen to save the plant, let him preach in China or India to try and stop thier economic progess or get his God to do it for him.
P Corkindale, walsall, westmidlands
I was abused throughout my childhood - being molested and constantly frightened is much worse than having your environment made less pleasant. Climate change may pose risks in the future, but abuse destroys lives now. Shame on you, Your Grace.
G Samsa, London, UK
One more lunatic espouses yet another 'opinion' (one that has been thoroughly debunked) about a subject he is no more qualified to discuss than are politicians who are currently working to pull developed countries down to the level of the 3rd world.
Stick to confessionals..you need it!
Marty Hammonds, Oceanside, USA
And yet another CofE bishop has made a screwy comment. Shouldn't they be looking after the spiritual well-being of what few members they still have?
Climate change -- it may be occurring though the world hasn't warmed any since 1998. If so, is it a natural phenom or is it man? No one knows.
Terry L. Walker, Ladson, SC / USA
Bishop Worse Than Fritzl? Comparing reasonable people who doubt the claims of anthropogenic global warming to Fritzl scares and isolates our children, dooming them to a collapsed global economy and increasing government control in a manner reminiscent of Bishop Orwell's prophetic novel "1984" ;>)
Prof Steve Staley, Colorado Springs, USA
What a joke!!!! Global Warming is the political subject for the century!!!! It is much easier to talk about climate change and global warming instead of morals and values that exist throughout the world!!!!!
Jim, Bremen, Ga, USA
Well let's pass a law that makes it an offence to deny climate change; after all Europe criminalizes denying the holocaust. In fact let's end it all by criminalizing free speech althogether. That will get he nay sayers to shut up.
kishore, Galena, USA
Frank Sloane : "Colletively, we are destroying our planet for future children and adults alike"
I disagree. Our forefathers did that job admirably for us.
Jack Gough, Lanarkshire,
It is a bit rich of the member of the clergy to go around accusing other people of behaving like paedophiles.
If he is really serious about this maybe he should encourage the church to be more environmentally friendly. How about pulling down all those draughty old churches & cathedrals?
Mike, Middlesbrough,
Global warming ,like political correctness, is but another form of culturtal Marxism. God save us from the Al Gore's and Rev Gordon Mursel's of the world!
Bob Anderson, Murrysville, PA, USA
"Global Warming" is a misnomer. It should be called "Global Fleecing" because that''s exactly what it is.
While global warming may be a trend, Anthropogenic Global Warming is discredited science at best, intentional fraud at worst.
The Church should stick to exorcisms; leave science to others.
Scott, Durham, NC, USA
This message only applies to you if you are a believer in man-made global warming. If not ignore the idiotic comments of the bishop.
David Thijm, Stourbridge, UK
Great analogy. Fritzl raped his child and by ignoring climate change we are raping our childrens chances of a future.
Rev Christopher Ritson, Leeds,
A complete loss of moral compass. The actions of Fritzl were unequivicol crimes and a complete betray of the parent/child relationship. They cannot remotely be equated with climate change, which is a historical fact, a future inevitability, and which generates both winners and loosers.
Gareth Williams, Richmond, England
Lauren Victoria, Edinburgh
Thats assuming (and a frail assumption is all that it is) that man is causing global warming.
If not then there is nothing we can do but go along for the ride.
No amount of green living can stop that scenario.
Phill, The Wirral, England
I am surprised that Bishop Mursell feels scientifically quaified to comment on whether or not man's activities are contributing to climate change, This should be left to climate researchers and not to the bishop (or to the extremist posters on either side - or are they all climate researchers?).
Peter, Cambridge,
This has nothing to do with global warming (globaloney). What this is about is the refusal to allow other people to have an opinion or belief that is different from their own. In America, we call this "freedom."
Edd, Sarasota, USA
It is a ridiculous analegy, but I can see what he means. Still, he should have predicted that a bunch of people would get offended. Somebody always does.
James, Leeds, UK
My thoughts exactly, David!
Caroline, Alexandria, Egypt
I also can't see the problem with what the Bishop said. It's true - if we do nothing to save the environment now, our children and grandchildren are doomed. There is no peer-reviewed research to show climate change will not happen. It's a fact. The only debate is how bad it will be.
DavidG, Coogee, Sydney, Australia
I suppose we shouldn't be surprised that a religious person is happy to believe in something which has insufficient and unconclusive evidence.
Sam, London,
Could the Right Reverend inform us all as to where in the Bible or any other Christian scripture, Christianity concerns itself with Mother Nature?
Neil Howroyd, Dubai, UAE
Does this man believe in God? What absolute rubbish this man speaks. I am more shocked that he is an ordained prelate than I am about his utterly reprehensible comments.
he beggars believe !
Tim Kent, Bethal , South Africa
Failure of supply or continued price increases of fossil-fuel energy and oil will have greater effect on eliminating wasteful self-indulgent consumption than will the words of a Bishop, even one who gets the media help of the Times. Sad, but such is the state of the world today.
Verano, London,
Um , he`s had his "15 minutes" of glory in the spotlight ?
Jim, Sidcup,
He was not saying "climate change and global warming are very real". He is stating that those who disagree with his views are evil. He in no way addresses the controversies of climate change - they are just assumed as the premise for his lame insults.
So when did he stop beating his wife?
Smith, Elko, USA
wow, during the dark ages the church burned people at the stake for saying the Earth was round. Perhaps, this "expert" in God needs to stick to what he knows, and stay away from something he has no clue about. Now on Jupiter there is "global warming" with a third red spot, is that our fault to?
Scott, Tupelo, USA
As we say in America, "give me a break". Bishop or no Bishop, global warming is one of those things that people should be able to rationally, and I stress rationally argue about without hyperbole.
The planet has warmed and cooled in the past on its own. Is man now responsible? Maybe or maybe not.
S.K. Trynosky, Fair Lawn N>J>, USA
Anyone with a little common sense is incapable of making such a wounding comparison. It is unconceivable..
My mother, what a bishop!!
Tato Dulanci, Vitoria, Spain
I assume the Rev. Gordon Mursel has just opened his mouth to change his socks.
John, Calgary,
Thus shows the amazing extremes the ignorant worshippers at the altar of Al Gore are willing to go to. This bishop should be immediately rebuked for the absurd comparison of the repeated raping of a girl to the yet unfounded claims of global warming and human influence.
patriot, usa,
The Church of England has so few congregants these days, that I fear the clergy has way too much time on their hands, and spend it weaving hysterical conspiricies and crises. Woe to us all.
Skip, St. Paul, USA
Being more concerned about the price of petrol ,than global warming or finding alternative energy for when the oil runs out .Is a form abuse towards our children.
We have all been conditioned to get what we want now .
Our children may not be so lucky .
Dave Morp, lewisham, england
"Refusal to face the truth about climate change?" It's the Bishop who is guilty of this. The latest scientific evidence makes it clear that CO2 is not causing global warming. Maybe he didn't get the memo.
Jacques Voorhees, Dillon, Colorado, USA
If global warming is to be decreased, we need to have a birth rate less than the death rate.
The chuch doesnt want you to use birthcontrol, because having babies is the fastest way to make more christians.
More Christians = More Collections
I say make the church pay the global warming fine
Chris, Brighton, USA
The bishop is right to say this. If people are like a mule and won't listen you have to hit them over the head with a piece of wood.
Keith Bentham (rev), Wigan, uk
Were the people who, back in the 1970s, failed to act in accordance with the far left 'catastrophic' environmental cause celebre - Global Cooling! - also "as guilty as Austrian child abuser Josef Fritzl?"
Johnston, Greenville,
Mmm. Man representing fairy tales, pushing another fairy tale. Almost can't be bothered to go on. So I wont.
Chris, Worthing,
Now, more than ever, I thank God I'm no longer associated with CofE
Clay L, Williamsburg, US
This is a perfect example of how the farce that is "Manmade Global Warming" is being pushed upon the public. No debate, you either agree or you are insulted. I'm sorry, but this garbage, as it has been presented, is all about money and wealth redistribution. Too many gullible souls in this world.
D Henry, Tampa Bay, US
Nice to see that the church has put its foot in it again. Maybe the Bishop should just ask Jesus for help...he might end up upsetting a few less people then. Nevertheless he did provide a good laugh for a few athiests like myself! (along with many others I'd imagine).
Matthew, Winchester, UK
The Bishop is absolutely outrageous. Climate change is a natural phenomenon beyond the control of we mere human beings. Humans should urgently reduce polluting the World to make life pleasant for all but that does not justify those politians with no scientific knowledge dictating us.
Clive W, Witney, UK
Apparently 0.0001 seconds after the Big Bang, the temperature of our universe was 10 billion billion degrees Kelvin. 1 second later the universe had actually cooled to 10 billion degrees. 100 seconds later it had cooled again to 1 billion degrees. 14 billion years later it's quite pleasant really.
C Winn, Gateshead, UK
Interesting comparison, except child abuse actually happens.
And as a man of the cloth slightly hypocritical he should choose to put his faith in the science of global warming and presumably still believe in creatonism over evolution.
Paul, Andover,
i read the headline and i though what a loon ...then i read the article and got the correct context of what he was saying and yes he is making a serious point - we are wrecking the planet for our children and grandchildren and that it the unpalatable truth that purves should focus on. wake up Times!
patrick, london,
I think this debate reflects how dangerous it is to oversimplify things. Instead of analysing facts as they are, people of faith often naturally satisfy a need to classify things as either good or bad.
Vincent, London, UK
Oh boy! Jeremy Clarkson is going to have a field day with this one.
At least I hope so.
David Garfield, London, UK
Climate change is perfectly natural - it has happened over billions of years and humans will adapt as they always have. Forecasters can barely predict the weather a week ahead let alone years. To liken this current fashion (and that's all it is) to committing rape and incest is sick beyond belief.
Emma, Southampton,
I find the outrage expressed by Libby Purves absolutely ridiculous; an example of pointless journalistic hyperbole aimed at lampooning the church and playing to a misguided populist view of its eccentricity.
I would prefer to read some urgent criticism by her of political inertia on climate change.
Jon Lord, Manchester,
We really don't know enough about heat sinks and volcanic action to say any too much about Global Warming. Yes we all have a duty to treat our world with respect.
The crime of incest and rape of one's own daughter is really at quite a different order.
Geoffrey K Nathan, Grays, UK
Global warming, the latest, and definitely not the last, in a very long list of " expert predictions". BSE to cause the death of hundreds of thousands, millenium bug to create chaos, WMD threaten mankind, bird flu pandemic to kill millions worldwide. One day, hallelujah, we're all going to die!
Terry, Radstock, England
The Bishop of Stafford has lost his moral compass and illustrates why so many people have turned their back on the Church
Peter, Chelmsford,
Historically, bishops actually have quite a fair bit in common with Josef Fritzl themselves, and not for the airy-fairy "philosophy" either, but more for the depraved abuse of young children. They say you should stick to what you know, hats off to Mursell for doing just that.
chris, Worthing, England
The Bishop of Stafford isn't a senior bishop - merely a suffragan i.e. a very minor bishop.
R.Schofield, Sherborne, UK
If you ignore the headline but consider the meaning, then he is correct. Colletively, we are destroying our planet for future children and adults alike.
Frank Sloane, Durham,
He picked a analogy that was in very poor taste, but in effect what he was attempting to say is very true - climate change and global warming are very real, and by doing nothing we are condemning future generations of humanity to a world where human life is left in a vulnerable position.
Lauren Victoria, Edinburgh, UK