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A leading cardinal has called on the Islamic world to allow individual Muslims "the freedom to convert" to Christianity, arguing that this does not threaten Islamic identity.
The baptism in Rome at Easter of Magdi Allam, an Egyptian-born Italian Muslim journalist, by Pope Benedict XVI, caused outrage in parts of the Muslim world. This week death threats to Mr Allam and Silvio Berlusconi, the Italian Prime Minister, were posted on a website said to be close to al-Qaeda.
At an inter-faith meeting in religious freedom organised in Amman, the capital of Jordan, by the Venice-based Oasis Centre, Cardinal Angelo Scola, the Patriarch of Venice said that no-one, "not even Muslims", had the right to impose "the identity of community" to the point where it "violates the human freedom of the individual, included the freedom to convert".
Oasis was founded by Cardinal Scola five years ago to create an international network promoting inter-faith dialogue. Speaking at the conference, attended by over 80 delegates from 20 countries, he said that "in our globalised society, tension between religious freedom and the traditional identity of a people is becoming more and more troubling." This was not in itself new, as "the rich history of Venice and its millennial relationships with the Muslim Levant" showed.
But "the impressive trade and cultural exchanges that La Serenissima engaged in with the East involved only a limited elite. The overwhelming majority of people were deeply rooted in their traditional identity.Today it's not like that any more."
The" disturbing question", Cardinal Scola said, was "what happens to the identity of a community if a sizeable number of people begin to call it into question, either because they come from another religion or because they convert to another religion."
In some countries with Muslim majorities those born into another religion were tolerated, but "the identity of the people concerned would appear to be threatened if a Muslim asks to convert." The attitude of Muslim rulers was "if you want to leave Islam, you have to leave the country."
Modern Western societies by contrast saw religious freedom as "the prerogative of the individual, an inalienable right, to be sure, but something with no public relevance, as if religion was only an individual matter and not a fact of a community and a people."
Consequently Westerners felt threatened when Muslim immigrants formed a religiously cohesive bloc in the heart of Western societies. The answer was for both the Western and Eastern worlds to find a third way and achieve the "right balance" between religious freedom and the identity of a community, Cardinal Scola said. "Christians don't want to pose a risk to the basis of social relationships in countries with a Muslim majority, but, and let us be clear about this, they ask in return the same kind of respect for our own traditions from those arriving here."
As for the right to convert, "In the end, what good can truth receive from keeping within a religion people who do not believe in it anymore?" Cardinal Scola asked. Deserting one religion for another was more honest than continuing to take part in a faith "for the sake of appearances".
Cardinal Scola quoted an Egyptian Dominican scholar as saying "I do not study Muslim culture in order to destroy it. Why should I destroy it? It is something that is beautiful in itself. It should be appreciated."
Vatican officials said that Cardinal Scola had met Prince Ghazi bin Muhammad of Jordan during the conference to pave the way for the first Catholic-Muslim Forum, convened by Pope Benedict and to be held in October in Rome.
Hasan Abû Ni'mah, head of the Jordanian Royal Institute for Inter-Faith Studies, said that dialogue between the world's great faiths based on common moral and human values was the only alternative to a "clash of civilisations" involving "war, death, violence and terrorism".
Monsignor Gabriel Richi Alberti, director of the Oasis Centre, told the Catholic website ZENIT that "In the West we are witnessing a sort of paradox. On one hand, we energetically affirm freedom of conscience and religious liberty. On the other hand, religious experience runs the risk of being considered something that belongs only to the private and personal sphere, without any public relevance. " Conversely in other societies "the public dimension of the religious experience is amply recognized but runs the risk of forgetting that truth is proposed and not imposed."
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Welcome to the new Middle ages. How depressing.
Paul, Carlow, Ireland
Come on guys, no sane and educated Muslim will ever convert to another religion; Islam HAS everything in it, unless these new converts to other religions are after something other than heavenly faith and laws...
dr ebrahim khodadoost, ardebil, iran
Believe in a personal god that created the known and knowable universe requires the suspension of reason. The "followers of the book" all fall into this category.
Hardly surprising that their behaviour appears unhinged to those who do not require a god to live in peace with their neighbours.
John Weaver, San Javier, Spain
Good on the guy, he is listening to his heart and is at one within himself. The Islamic world should leave him alone, as this brave man is a modern day hero.
Ash Patel, Birmingham, England
As a Christian - Oh I do wish that the Pope and his Cardinals would put a sock in it about Muslims and conversions. It really is becoming boring, and it does not make for good inter-faith relations if one or the other is banging on about converts. So, do us a favour - take a vow of silence!
B Clark, Chelmsford, England
Not so long ago if a Protestant married a Catholic, the children had to be brought up as Catholics in order for the Catholic Church to recognise the marriage. Witness the decline in the non-Catholic population of the Irish Free State / Republic during the 20th Century because of this.
Paul, Coventry,
RE: "...insult Islam and call upon its distruction day and night in the west." M jama , MInneapolis, USA
As opposed, shall we say, to Islam, which have ACTUALLY committed destruction since its inception?? Feh.
Patricia, Tampa, USA
Thomas, York:
Very simple, only because it is one step back!
However, for a better understanding, you can't accept a country's citizinship and refuse to go to imposed military service; its one package.
saleh darwish, Amman, Jordan
Religion = biggest mind virus (disease) to ever plague humanity.
akshay, Bangalore, india
Everyone should be free to live his or her life without the imposition of religious nonsense.
Des, Edinburgh,
The Koran advises Muslims to "seek not dispute" with the people of the book (jews and Christians) because they worship the same God. This being the case, how can a conversion from Islam to Christianity be seen as a turning away from God?
Thomas, York,
In Christianity, the choice to believe in God preserves the choice to not believe in God. This paradox has given rise to the Western culture of criticism - reform, atheism and secularism. In Rome a Catholic can choose not to believe or they can become a Muslim. There is no such choice in Riyadh.
C Winn, Gateshead, UK
Just wait for a few years and when there are more Muslims than Christians in the UK we will see if the 'religious tolerence'' is till there or if the Christians suddenly feel threatened.
John, Limassol, Cyprus
How does a baby (before its had anything cut off) know what religion it is?
David Masu, Zürich,
Freedom of religion is a human right. Freedom from religion is as well.
alan, germany,
Religions are hobbies.
People should have as much ability to change religions as to change hobbies. Or, of course, to cease to have a religion.
Google "Religions are hobbies" for more information.
Barry Pearson, Stockport, UK
Antonio da Silva
The Creator is so fair not to leave his creatures without guidance, how can we know what is right? You wouldn't want us to live like animals. More simple: a manufacturer must send a manual with the product. I send you my love because I know yr goodwill
thanks to the timesonline.
saleh darwish, Amman, Jordan
Nathan: "But oppression's everywhere: whether In Muslim countries through politics or in the UK through the institutional secular agend[a]"
The right to freedom of religion and to manifest it is part of UK and European law. It's qualified but clearly there. That's hardly oppression!
David Jones, Loughborough, UK
jon london
there is no evidence to show that Prophet Muhammad (saw) or his Companions ever compelled anyone to embrace Islam, nor did they sentence anyone to death solely for renunciation of the faith. Hadith is a weak hadith with just a single isnad- I.e not enough to validate the death penalty.
Mohammed, london, uk
Why is everyone condemning the church, this is a sensible question. Muslims should be able to convert without the fear of consequences, but unfortunately the Hadith, or sayings of the Prophet say Whoever changes religion kill him so they are not free to convert.
jon, london, uk
I think, Bob, that the point is not just being able to leave one religion in order to convert to another. The point is being able to leave religion - full stop. Not being allowed to give up religion is a violation of a person's rights.
alan, germany,
When it comes to God, we all make choices and It is as individuals that we shall be held accountable for those - so we should be free n informed in making them.
But opression's everywhere: whether In Muslim countries through politics or in the UK through the institutional secular agend.
Nathan, Cambridge, UK
Those who quote from the quran and talk about no moderate islam & lack of freedom in it should really try to read the quran with an objective eye. The Quran acknowledges Judaism, christianity & other faiths as true,Islam means anyone who believes in God & submits to him, within it are many religions
Heath, Surrey, Egypt
This, coming from a church that had quite a record of pestering those who married outside the church, telling them they were living in sin and their children were illegitimate.
margie, victoria, australia
Perhaps the Roman Catholic Church having said this, will
now stop persecuting people in Chiapas in Southern Mexico
who have left Roman Catholicism and become Evangelical
Christians.
Amanda, Exeter, U.K.
Religion is the main cause of all wars and ills in the World.
Why not believeing in a Creater without any "holy"books or even prophet.
Childish fairy tales that worked in the past but not anymore in the 21st,century.
Let us live happy without any religion but act in the right way.
Antonio da Silva, Rosario, argentina
[we believe in Allah & that which is revealed to us & that which was revealed to Abraham & Ishmael, & Isaac & Jacob, & their children, & that which Moses & Jesus received & that the prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them & unto Him we surrendered- [Quran 2:13]
Mohammed, London, UK
The idea that a person of one religion has no right to convert to another is the product of a mixture of tribalism and power over others. God can reveal His presence in any religion, which is just a human response to spiritual matters and has no significance in itself, except to its leaders.
Bob Ericson, Tewkesbury, Glos, UK
Muslims often quote the verse of the Qu'ran "There is no compulsion in religion"
They always fail to give the next verse which sets out the options.
They are:-
Islam
Slavery
Dhimmitude (third class status and a crippling tax for Christians & Jews)
Death
Not much choice there.
EW, uk,
I hate to say this but some Christians are hypocrites and evil in their behavior. They have chosen nothing but resort lies and mis-information. Muslims generally do not complain about christian hate-mongers who insult Islam and call upon its distruction day and night in the west.
M jama , MInneapolis, USA
Cardinal Scola... said that no-one... had the right to impose "the identity of community" to the point where it "violates the human freedom of the individual...".
This is rather rich coming from a church that has been campaigning to deny homosexuals basic rights. The pot calling the kettle black?
Steve, London, UK
The religious leaders who say the alternative to interfaith harmony is "a clash of civilisations" should just say a clash of 'religions' - civilisation will get along quite nicely, thanks, without religions trying to convert us or kill us if we don't, or indeed without religions existing at all
lucyt, Crieff, Scotland
Convert ?? What kind of crazy notion is that ! Religion is a concept, it's not real.
Allan, Nottingham,
YB, what on earth are you talking about???
Bill, Vancouver, Canada
Jayil London says "There is no Compulsion in Religion - Quran" ... neither are there suicide bombers ... but they certainly exist. What about the man in Afghanistan who recently converted to Christianity ... was he not sentenced to death, by the very government the UK is fighting to support.
Douglas Newell, Saltcoats, Ayrshire
"On the other hand, religious experience runs the risk of being considered something that belongs only to the private and personal sphere, without any public relevance." Many of us consider that's exactly where it belongs!
David Jones, Loughborough, UK
Muslims are free to convert. Apostatism in Islam only applied to pagan Arabs who originally converted to Islam then abandoned it back to Arab paganism (practice of burying children). It does not apply to the people of the book. (Christians, Jews and Muslims) There is no compulsion in Religion- Quran
jayil, london, uk
Alastair, religions are defined by what is written in their sacred texts. Religious moderates are simply those who find parts of the texts of their own faith, so abhorrent or inconvenient , that they chose to ignore them. Hence the "a la carte" values of European Christians: Convenient salvation!
Andy, Congleton,
So this is the excuse you use as justification to kill and occupy Muslims around the world. Where is their freedom to live!
YB, London, UK
While I agree that everyone should have the right to follow their conscience in matters of faith, I think the baptism of Mr. Allam by Ratzinger himself was a political statement and was deliberately provocative.
Bill, Vancouver, Canada
Perhaps the next interfaith meeting should be held in Saudi Arabia? Perhaps in Mecca? Oops - oh dear: Christian symbols are not allowed in Saudi, and non-muslims not allowed into Mecca. Where does the "tolerance and understanding" need to start?
Nick, Rotherham, UK
Not being allowed to convert away from Islam is a cornerstone of the religion, and is non-negotiable in the eyes of the Koran. In many countries it is illegal to even try. Where freedom of choice is concerned, there is simply no such thing as "moderate" Islam.
Alastair, Alicante, Spain