Ruth Gledhill, Religion Correspondent
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The Church of England decided last night to consecrate women bishops, with minimum concessions to opponents and despite the threat of a mass exodus of traditionalist clergy.
After one of the most contentious debates faced by the Church’s General Synod, its members voted to allow the consecration of women bishops but rejected compromise proposals for new “super bishops”, who would have catered for the objectors.
The decisions, after more than six hours of debate, led to extraordinary scenes at the University of York, with one bishop in tears as he spoke of being “ashamed” of the Church of England.
The Rt Rev Stephen Venner, Bishop of Dover, who is in favour of women bishops, said that the failure to agree to create “super bishops” meant that every opportunity to allow objectors to “flourish” within the Church had been turned down.
On the proposal to bring forward legislation to consecrate women bishops, the synod bishops voted by 28 to 12 for the motion, the clergy by 124 to 44 and laity by 111 to 68. There were seven abstentions across all three houses. Legislation will be drawn up, coming back to the synod in February next year, and then go to dioceses for approval. A final vote will require a majority of two thirds from bishops, clergy and laity.
A statutory national code of practice will also be drawn up for those “who as a matter of theological conviction will not be able to receive the ministry of women as bishops or priests”.
The decision led to members warning of the prospect of traditionalists seeking supervision from conservative archbishops in overseas provinces, as conservatives have in the US, after the dispute over gay ordination.
Catholic and evangelical bishops are also understood to have held secret talks in Rome to discuss how to proceed with unity talks once women are ordained, and what, if any, kind of recognition might be granted to Anglo-Catholics by Rome.
The Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, who urged generous provision for opponents, sat with his head in his hands as a proposal for “super bishops” for objectors to women bishops was defeated. The super bishops would have been an upgraded version of the “flying bishops” appointed to care for opponents of women priests.
The synod rejected the plan even though it had the backing of the Archbishop of York, Dr John Sentamu. Under the new proposals to consecrate women, flying bishops will also disappear and parishes will no longer be able to opt into their care instead of that of their diocesan bishop.
Dr Williams told synod members he would be unhappy to see a “systematic marginalisation” of Anglo-Catholics, whom he described as a “necessary abrasion”.
The Bishop of Winchester, the Right Rev Michael Scott-Joynt, afterwards condemned the synod’s move as “profoundly short-sighted” and “mean spirited.”
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This is one of the best decisions the Church of England could have made. The episcopate is only the fullest extent of the priesthood, therefore, if a woman can be a priest she can be a bishop and I say Amen to that.
Justin Ivatts, Arlington, VA, USA
A comment here notes that "[T]he Bible is very clear that a bishop must be "the husband of one wife". (1 Timothy 3:2, Titus 1:6). Something a woman cannot be." Is this a problem in the CofE where women-husbands and men-wives raise no eyebrows? Remember "homophobia" is a capital offence in England.
Owen Rhys, Neath, Wales
What nonsense. Gays aren't allowed because of the OT, and women aren't allowed because of the NT. Such idiocy. Jesus seems to have been entirely indifferent to it all, to his great credit. As an atheist I simply despair of all the 'people of the Book'. It's merely superstitious rubbish.
monica, guildford, uk
This only means that Protestantism has nothing to do with Christianity at all. Protestant churches have lost their people for good, and such foolish measures won't help you: it's all over now, you are lost.
AM, Stockholm, Sweden
Are we saying Jesus had it wrong in promoting a universal mission until the end of time, fully aware of the psychological and sociological evidence that both sexes respond more powerfully when men are leading especially in the vital issue of God worship?
Father Bryan Storey, Tintagel, UK
i think that women have the same rights as men when it comes to religion, who says women arent allowed to become bishops? honestly if anyone has atually read the bible really careful they should notice that women have been treated like dirt,its time for the status quo to change so its fair for all.
Eliza Van Worden, South Carolina, USA
We the Muslims in Uk are badly suffering because we do not have our own courts. We need our own courts just like the Jewish here in Uk. For instance, according to the British law we can not get marride, if we do not get divorce and divorce may take years and we as Muslims can not make relations out
Mohammed, London, UK
There are so many irrelevancies in these arguments. No one seems to argue that a man who wears earrings and dyes his hair is not a priest. This reduces the question from whether it is possible to ordain women to whether is it is desirable and puts it in the same league as the desirability (rather than the possibility) of the ordination of homosexuals.
Fr Julian Kent, Newcastle, Australia
In His choice of Twelve men, the Lord' s promoting something different from the world and its ways, nothing to do with power, rivalries of the sexes. It's to do with promoting human love. Unless the male is leading bowing down before God, there is no universal movement dynamic enough.
Father Bryan Storey, Tintagel, uk
Religions are man made and not surprisingly they want to be the top dogs.Keep it up girls secular society is right behind you.
iain rae, Tunbridge Wells, U.K.
It's ironic how so many 'religious' people are hypocrites.Why do people still find women a threat?If Jesus didn't discriminate against anybody,who are you to discriminate women or gay people?Consider the fact that women are the largest audience in churches and get off your high pedestal.
Anne Marie, London,
The heart of the reformation movement is that scripture, the Word of God, prevails over subjective opinions.
The Bible is very clear that a bishop must be "the husband of one wife". (1 Timothy 3:2, Titus 1:6). Something a woman cannot be.
Aren Haggard, Fort Worth, TX, USA
Traditionalist:, look around you; see women participating in law, medicine, sport, engineering ,community service; men becoming au pairs, nannies, nurses - traditionally women's work. If you were sick in body you would welcome a female carer - why not one for your soul? Go now, your time is over.
Susan Crawford, London, UK
Anglicans continue to put the focus more on ministry than sacrificing Priesthood, the nub and rub of the Reformation. Yet without Priesthood, ministry is devalued. Men must lead in the way of real love as Jesus always makes clear.
Father Bryan Storey, Tintagel, uk
What has gender got to do with God/Goddess?
We have to balance both our own inner male and female to go through those pearly gates.
It is an individual journey, and is your own business.
Patriarchal institutions are being replaced by individual freedom.
Catherine Mills BA, HdipEd, CTG,TTG, London, UK
Congratulations to the Church of England on this sensible step forward. The Methodists have had women lay preachers for nearly 100 years, and women minsters at all levels for decades, and this has worked very well. Like their male colleagues, many of these women have been excellent church leaders.
Nicola, Bristol, UK
It's a pickle, isn't it. Whether to be reasonable, fair, right-minded and equal to all humans, or whether to believe in the Bible.
The choice is real. It is a fudge to think you can do both. Face facts - the book says NO, but the heart says YES. At this point, truly moral people discard the book.
Steve, Altrincham,
Christians believe that their God is omnipotent. So how come He never told them clearly that there should be such people as bishops let alone of what sex. While I'm on the subject, Why has the creator of the universe given His followers a Bible that is unclear and full of untruths and gibberish?
William Garrett, Harrow,
I do not wish to enter into church politics. But I do recall some
words of Jesus which for me are apposite: "it is the spirit which quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing; the words that Ispeak unto you they are spirit and they are life.
Tom Jackson, Stockport, Cheshire
Women I have seen in the Church adorn themselves in jewellery even dangling earings, make up, dye their hair outragous colours etc. etc. "Self adornment" , WHY?
I could not look at them as being linked with the do gooding of the Church. I don't go to Church now and surely won't in future!
Ann, Enfield, UK
Dear Mr. Milner : There would never be a demise of Christianity ! Christianity was established by the Apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ, and it will continue until his coming regardless to what you, and others may think. Perhaps you should read the book of revelations.You think as the Muslim's do !
Jeffrey Churchill, Pierrefonds, Quebec. CANADA
The Church of England is great in itself and individual Church of England churches are greater, but the trouble starts with some of the so-called Christians in 'em. 'Love thy neighbour' - what a joke!
Geoffrey Woollard, Cambridge, England
Hopefully God will have the last word on this subject, Amen.
Howard Taylor, Cheltenham, England
Women Bishops GREAT!!! about time women shared the last supper table with men in frocks, they have much, much , more to offer our modern day crazy society which desperately needs spiritual guidance in their lives.
brendan Buffini, maidstone, england
A just vote, now women can answer the call that they have often heard.
In Edmonton one woman bishop has just left for a diocese in New Zealand; and she was replaced by another woman bishop. Other parts of the communion have given women the right to be priests and then bishops.
Ann Wright, Edmonton, Canada
Dr Rowan Williams said he wanted to accommodate traditionalists, thats nice of him.
He leads a church not of GOD, but a church full of ego's.
People honors me with their lips, but their heart is far away from me. But in vain do they worship me, teaching as Doctrines the precepts of men.
The words of Jesus and how true.
Shaun, fareham, Hants
Ah it is now "whatever you think yourselves lads and ladies."
Some Christianity!!! Not quite Christ's attitude, but the He was the Son of God.
Brian O Cinneide, eThekwini, Afrika Borwa
So the church might just have finally recognised equality for women - several years behind many golf clubs and decades after our politicians decided to recitfy that terrible injustice. Kinda indicates the great space which exists between the church and any "moral high ground".
Sean, Coventry, UK
So we will not have second-class bishops in the Church of England. Instead we will have second-class priests, second-class deacons and second-class congregations: those 10 per cent of traditionalists in the church.
What victory is this (for women) at the cost of consensus and conscience?
Fr Andrew Fenby, Leigh on Sea, United Kingdom
If the consecration of women as bishops is wrong, they will prove to be no good. If they appear to enjoy God's blessing we will know that it was the right move.
Frank Upton, Solihull,
This decision is no suprise. The churches have been in rebellion against Yahweh the Heavenly father/God for two thousand years. Observing non of the holy or feast days, they try to justify outright rebellion saying it was done away. Yet all the deciples observed them. Costantine est. pagan days.
Jas, Alders, UK
When will the Church of England have a Arch Bishopess of Canterbury
Anthony Hill, Rugby, Warwicshire
We have no certain knowledge as to whether God wants the CoE to have female bishops.
But we do have certain knowledge that he wants his Church to be united. See the High-Priestly prayer of Christ in John xvii.
Any step that makes unity harder to attain is grievous sin.
Ian Scott, Benitachell, Spain
I don't know if anyone has mentioned that most of the objectors are getting close to retirement, while the supporters are the younger generation. The CofE seems to be going with the future, rather then the past.
As far as the claims of "fighting for what the Bible teaches", that's simply twaddle.
Daniel, Spokane, USA
I do wish Anglicans would use the intelligence God has given them and the charity he commanded! Jesus did not appoint any female disciples because he worked within the limitations of that time and its customs. Try a little humility, Anglicans. Be subject to your appointed Bishop, male or female.
Alex Mitchell, Leicester, UK
I come from an Anglo Catholic church in Exeter, we attract both staff and congregation who are called to worship in that way.
If there is no adequate provission made for us many of our members will become Roman Catholic s in order to secure the validity of the Sacrement.
Mrs J Forward, Exeter,
What a spendid case they have made for the immediate disestablishment of the church with their phony arguments about their silly fairytales and theology. Farcical. Super Bishops? Is this Monty Python? The rest of the country looks on and says so what? Equality for women? What took you so long?
Paul Owen, Birmingham, UK
Our Lord's intentions are as conspicuous by what 'he didn't do'
just as much as by 'what he did do.'
This means that as Christians we should not
invent and re-establish a church that
reflects 'our opinions' of 'what he should have done'.
By this action we reflect Todays fads over the Divine Will
Peter, Evesham, UK
The future for the C of E is touchy feely liberal: lots of warm feminist goo, bishops married to wealthy upper middle class men, with a liturgical fashion budget. A politically correct Synod is no guardian of the faith.
Ibrahim, Dalston, UK
in theory Jesus lives and always has existed outside of time so one would have thought he would have been sure to say"just so that you are clear, homosexuality and women priests are not on- what conclusions should we draw from the fact that apparently he did not say that?
peter c, devizes, wessex
Reading the comments leads me to regret that many outside the CofE should take the liberty of criticizing the parties involved and inflaming a debate which should be limited to Anglicans only. We have no right to discuss the interior affairs of the churches to which we do not belong. Peace.
JP, Rouen, France
The CoE is now a protestant Church and the Catholic wing were only ever masqerading.Fudging will be the outcome of attempts to hold onto the Anglo's.Time to move on and let this moribund Church be accountable for her actions.Time also for the Vatican to sever links as well as the State.
John, Durham, UK
Well done. About time too to get rid of some of the crusty port wine drinkers.
albert hall, hove, england
How can a bunch of people arguing over fairy-stories be worthy of national news?
There are far more interesting (and important) things going on in 2008 than some silly superstitions.
Hibbo, Dundee,
To all people in the Anglican Church who are disillusioned by the decision on women Bishops, there is a welcoming Church which has stayed true to its teachings and has lasted since Jesus commissioned Peter. This church is the Catholic Church and will continue to fight for what the Bible teaches.
Luke, Gloucester,
Jesus Christ had foresight of things to come, when he asked if He will find faith or even christianity on earth when next He comes back. While other religion are increasing, Christianity is diminishing. There are deceits and pretence. See NIGERIA flooded with churches and yet among the most corrupt
Victor, LONDON, UK
At the pace at which the church of England is going, I wouldnt be surprised that the next synod would be voting and adopting a 'modern' Biblical text to reflect the 'will of the people'. Forward march to self inflicted destruction.
Joseph Abbah, Silver Spring, US
What would have happened, if Moses took a vote - to cross the wilderness, Jesus took a vote to die on the cross or not?
Leaders need to Lead. Ones who buck the established Church go start your own eg like the Reformation.
Coup De Tah = overthrow, rebellion, revolution, uprising.
Clem, Perth, Australia
Tobacco is like Christianity. Think about it. If we knew then what we know now, no way would tobacco or Christianity have caught on. Fortunately, taking tobacco derivatives into your body will soon be history. Christianitys demise may take a little longer, but it's on its last century.
Andrew Milner, Karuizawa, Japan
Provision for those who cannot in conceince accept the ordination of woman is not narrow minded it was a way to allow us to remain within thhe church that we Love and have helped nurture. It has brought me to tears of sadness that despite the pleas of both Arch Bishops we are brought back to 1994
Thomas Ravensdale, London,
Congratulations to the General Synod on deciding to go ahead with the ordination of women bishops.
I see a vision of two churches: one is "for straight men only". The other is "for all who wish to enter".
Synod has made the right decision.
Caroline, Melbourne, Australia
Religion /cont'd
They are permitted to refuse employment to people who do not share their beliefs.
Isn't this illegal?
Some are permitted to carry weapons (knives), even to school.
Isn't this illegal?
And they are allowed to evade taxation on the grounds of 'Charitable status'
Why?
P Smith, Luton, Beds, England
Provision for those who cannot in conceince accept the ordination of woman is not narrow minded it was a way to allow us to remain within thhe church that we Love and have helped nurture.
It has brought me to tears of sadness that despite the pleas of both Arch Bishops we are brought back to 1994
Thomas Ravensdale, London,
We women have been waiting for two thousand years for the day when we would no longer be treated as inferiors by Christians with Penises. Praise to you Lord Christ!
Susan Widdowson, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Those who recklessly demand revolution over evolutionary change, recklessly care not for the calculable damage they have wrought through their fanaticism. In their selfish greed, they leave the senseless wreckage of the Anglican Church behind them, thereby weakening Christianity in Britain.
Bob Evans, Anaheim, California
The various religious organisations are permitted to refuse employment or promotion on the grounds of gender.
Isn't this illegal?
They are permitted to refuse employment or promotion on the grounds of sexual orientation.
Isn't this illegal?
P Smith, Luton, Beds, England
one holy catholic and apostolic church
not any more
congratulations on fracturing the church
Thomas Ravensdale, London,
The Creator said "Though you make many prayers, I am not listening" at Isaiah 1.15.
The CoE should realise there is only one way to please God and thats by folowing his word the bible,or we don't get our prayers heard.1 Timothy 2:11,12
Jonathan King, Co.Offaly, Eire
Well done, Women are equal (or maybe better!!) than men
Hime, London, UK
Will women get the same pay as the men in this amazingly irrelevent debate. Let us all have a look at the pay scales. I would think a bishop will get the same as a traffic warden as he causes about the same amount of trouble.
M Wilson, Bidache, france
The C of E has been thoroughly absorbed by the surrounding liberal culture. No wonder no one in England attends church anymore: why bother, when one just hears the same bromides offered up by the state and the media, only with the word "Jesus" thrown in occasionally?
Jack, Vancouver, Canada
Homosexuals last week,women bishops this week.
Did Henry VIII realise the trouble he would be causing wanting to trade in his wife.
Dr Williams advocating Shariah Law.
.Did the Crusaders realise they were wasting their efforts fighting Saladin and the infidel?
Where is my lovely England now?
alan routledge, chester, england
Congratulations to the secularists - your vindictiveness in victory is noted. As a catholic my faith and, perhaps more importantly my money, will continue to be devoted to Christ. False prophets usually end up with a deserved fate.
Aubrey Mason, Swindon,
Finally, for once women gets real equal rights regarding religion!
W Cowan, Brooklyn, USA
"a narrowly defined grouping of like minded people. " Like Christians. Not to worry; they'll be leaving.
Austin Scott, Whitchurch,
We should have waited until the Roman Catholic and Orthodox are ready - which they will be one day - you can't stop the tide coming in. It would have been reassuring to this church member to see some humility from those women who are so anxious for preferment that they can't wait.
Jill, Bognor Regis,
Excellent outcome of the vote!!!! Finally the CofE can start being seen as credible when it speaks out against injustice elsewhere! May God bless the courage and rightness of this decision tonight!!!
Revd Veronica Hydon, Bollington, UK
I think the split is a fair one. We can have the EVATRA Church for Evangelicals and Traditionalists and the NUChurch for gay and women bishops.
Both will cater for the mixed views of the people of the UK and this is fair. We will see by church numbers which is more popular.
Mark, London, England
This is an absolute disater for the Church of England. On these recommendations it will totally loose its catholic tradition and identification and become nothing more than a protestant sect. What a dreadful das adn awful day for the C of E
Fr. John Greatbatch, St Austell, UK
Why do they want to treat women unequally ?
jayil, london, uk
CofE - RIP
Richard Millett, Carcassonne, France
Excellent outcome of the vote!! Finally the Cof E can be credible when it speaks out on matters of injustice elsewhere!! May God bless this courageous and right decision!!!
Revd Veronica Hydon, Bollington, UK
'the established church is rediscovering its 400-year-old Protestant roots.'
Huh? The extreme protestants are as opposed to wmen bishops as the extreme catholics. This is the voice of the middle ground: moderate evangelicals and moderate catholics, together with the liberals. Glory be!
Simon, Cambridge,
As a member of the Catholic wing of the Church and a supporter of women deacons, priests and bishops, I see the vote as being a move towards a fully inclusive Church which expresses its true catholicity as opposed to a narrowly defined grouping of like minded people.
Rev'd. Kevin Crinks, Wigan, UK
Deacons and Priests are ordained, Bishops are consecrated.
Pedantically yours
NS
NS, Taunton,