Ruth Gledhill, Religion Correspondent
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The Roman Catholic Church has finally ended all hope that Anglican priestly orders will ever be recognised as valid.
In an address to the Lambeth Conference of 670 Anglican bishops from around the world, the cardinal who heads the Council for Christian Unity said the dialogue between Anglicans and Catholics would be irrevocably "changed" as a result of the ordination of women and the recent vote to go ahead with consecrating women bishops.
Cardinal Walter Kasper also reiterated the Vatican's stance that homosexuality is a "disordered" condition.
In a well-attended closed session at the conference at the University of Kent University, Canterbury, Cardinal Kasper said relations between the two churches are now deeply compromised. He urged bishops to consider their shared inheritance, which he said was "worthy of being consulted and protected."
In 1896 Pope Leo XI issued a Bull, Apostolicae Curae, in which he condemned all Anglican orders as "absolutely null and utterly void". Soon after that bishops from both churches began talks in an attempt to achieve reconciliation between the two churches, separated since the Reformation in the 16th century. When Archbishop Michael Ramsey visited Pope Paul VI in 1966, hopes were unprecedentedly high that some means could be found of achieving full,visible unity.
Even today, the churches work closely together at the grass roots. Rome is understood to be looking at way of receiving as a collective body the Anglo-Catholics in England who might want to leave the Church as a result of women bishops. A similar formula is being sought for traditional Anglicans in the United States who have already left the Episcopal Church.
Cardinal Kasper spoke yesterday afternoon in English but conference organisers and the Vatican refused to release the text to the media, who were barred from attending the event. His speech was subsequently posted by L'Osservatore Romano in Rome in Italian. The Times has arranged its own translation back into English.
According to this translation, the Cardinal said: "Although our dialogue has led to a significant agreement on the idea of priesthood, the ordination of women to the episcopate blocks substantially and finally a possible recognition of Anglican orders by the Catholic Church."
He continued: "We hope for the continuation of a theological dialogue between the Anglican Communion and the Catholic Church, but the latter development directly undermines our goal and alters the level of what we pursue in dialogue."
The Cardinal told bishops: "I know many of you are worried, some also deeply, about the threat of fragmentation within the Anglican Communion. We are deeply sympathetic with you because we are also worried and saddened when we ask ourselves, ‘In this scenario, which form will the Anglican Communion take tomorrow tomorrow, and who will be our interlocutor?'”
He said the Catholic position on women priests and homosexuality was well-known but he wanted to offer further reflections in the light of the dialogue between the two churches, done under the umbrella for many years of the Anglican-Roman Catholic International Commission, or Arcic.
He said: "I want to briefly draw your attention to the statement of Arcic, Life in Christ, which notes that Anglicans could agree with Catholics on the fact that homosexual activity is disorderly, but we could defer relatively to the moral and pastoral care that should be offered."
He said the Vatican appreciated the resolution of the last Lambeth Conference that took a strictly Biblical line on the issue, ruling out the acceptance by Anglicans of active homosexual relationships.
“In light of the tensions of recent years in this regard, a clear statement by the Anglican Communion would offer us more opportunities to offer a common witness of human sexuality and marriage, a witness sorely needed in today's world.”
Catholic-Anglican relations reach new low over women bishops When the Cardinal addressed the Church of England's House of Bishops in 2006, he said the decision to ordain women represents a departure from the common position of all the Churches of the first millennium, not only of the Catholic Church but also of the Eastern Churches and Orthodox.
The Cardinal told Lambeth: "It seems to us that the Anglican Communion is very close to the Protestant Churches of the sixteenth century and is taking a position that those Churches took until the second half of the twentieth century."
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What strange anti Catholicism, Eric.
Father Bryan Storey, Tintagel, UK
This is a sigh that the end time is very close because this show how serios people are in deteriorating the plan of God
never you say that all is well because right judgement is fading gradually, and if you say any thing you like you will never escape being punished, satan is manupulating many hm
ikechukwu sylvester, oyo, Nigeria
Instead of denouncing female priests why don't 'staunch' Anglicans denounce such heresies as Papal infallibility and the bodily assencion of the Virgin? All 'trendy' views with no basis in tradition. In the 19th century Romes fabrications knew no bounds and it is they who need to return to the fold
Eric Skelton, Cardiff, Wales
Why this obsession with Rome? Anglicanism is the true 'Catholic' Church. It was not 'created' in the 1530s but 'renewed'. Its Apostolic succession goes back to Peter. Anyway, if age of foundation alone confers legitimacy, lets all get circumcised and give up pork.
Eric Skelton, Cardiff, Wales
If we were to have waited for Rome's acceptance of our Orders before being acceptable as fellow Christians, we would never have helped bring about a modern reformation of ministry in the world. Perhaps this is why God has not allowed this recgntion by Rome to happen. Semper reformanda rules!
Father Ron Smith, Christchurch, New Zealand
Hmmmm the Anglican "communion" commentary seems to be filled with two very revealing things, ego and pride. As for the "reformation", it keeps rolling down the path that scripture lays out regarding a house divided.... So much ignorance and pride.
Joe, Norfolk, USA
I've just read the stuff above and it's hard to know what to say. Do educated people actually believe any of this rubbish? It's no wonder we still have wars when supposedly sane people still fall out over old myths and superstitions. If God exists she must be truly ashamed of her followers.
Al, Weybridge, UQ
Roman Catholic Church
+ Anglican Church
-----------------------------------
= Roman Catholic Church
Anglicans who advocate reconciliation with the Roman Catholics are advocating the death of the Anglican Communion.
John S. Dearing, Corvallis, Oregon, USA
Keeping aside our personal feelings for how we must minister to all God's people, this is more a matter of faith in the "unity of the Church" than of justice or choice. Do we continue to facture the Church while not heeding the Lord's Own Prayer for Unity? This is not a matter of "rights."
Deacon John Holoduek, St. John's, Fairview, NJ, USA
No evolved woman would bother with this old patriarchal religion, based on lies and deceipt.
Perhaps the church would care to enlighten the people as to who Mary Magdalene really was, and how Jesus really treated her, respecting her true nature.
Perhaps that would spoil it all for the old boys
Lady Portia, London, UK
The Anglican 'church' departed from the teachings of Christ along time ago. It seems a lot of the people who have made comments either haven't read the Bible or don't have a proper understanding of what happened 2000 years ago.
Chris, Sydney, Australia
Has Card. Kasper signalled a return to the traditional teatment of women wthin the RC Church? "As individuals, man and woman are morally equals. Socially, man is superior...Women must be present in church with head covered and modestly dressed and preferably separated from the men...?
Francis Pimentel-Pinto, Hook, Hampshire, RG27 9ND, England
Diane from Huston the Roman Catholic Church does not
defend truth. Jesus said call no man Father, do not make
idols, do not worship idols. So the Catholic Church did
exactly that. You need a personal relationship with the Lord
Jesus, Diane.
Philip, Dorset, England
The Roman Catholic Church is a "disordered" condition. Its rigid stance against the full personhood of women and homosexuals is absurd. The RC Church considers all Anglican orders as "absolutely null and utterly void".
The RC Church worships itself. Why would Anglicans want anything to to with it?
John S. Dearing, Corvallis, Oregon, USA
This schism within the churches, is nothing more that the same growing pains we have witnessed throughout their development... the world is flat... no wait... the church is corrupt... right on... women should be ordained.... well done... the gay community is welcomed by the church... do hurry along!
Siobhan, Dublin, Ireland
No, Gwana, the problems in the Catholic church have been because of homosexual pederasts entering the priesthood. By the way, the Anglican and neo-TEC has had it's own scandals with homosexual priests and bishops molesting little boys as well. They seem to consider it an entitlement.
Jenny, Grand Rapids, MI US
ya'll are all crazy! except Simon. Bishops are the successors of the Apostles and must be male. Homosex is contrary to natural law and the nature of men's and women's bodies. Nobody is forced to be celibate....it is a choice. A celibate priesthood has worked for 2000 years....
Diane, Houston, USA
the 'incest' in the priesthood involves postpubescent boys...which speaks to the issue of homosexuality, not incest. Get ride of the homosexuals in seminary and the problem is gone.
The Catholic Church is the only defender of truth and as Simon said, truth and the Church dont pander to modern trend
Diane, Houston, USA
I don't think these Catholic bishops get it. Does this bishop think the Anglican church wants to be fully reconciled with an outdated, sexist, homophobic church? If homosexuality is so disordered why are so many Catholic priests and bishops gay themselves. 30 to 50% according to studies.
dipsy, Franklin, WV, USA
It's a step in the right direction if the Cardinal says dialogue may be "changed" and on another "level". The first thing needed is a sensible way to view sexuality. How about as being totally "private"?Thus women Bishops and homosexuals may be realistically acknowledged to be (otherwise) "ordered".
Mrs.Josephine Hyde-Hartley, Bacup, UK
Did anyone actually believe that the Anglican Church and the Roman Catholic Church had any hope of reconciliation anyway? I mean, how out of touch could this Cardinal be? Also, is there any Anglican out there actually worried about the 1896 Apostolicae Curae? It's meaningless.
Steve, Norfolk, USA
King Henry VIII had the right idea, so let's keep it that way.
John F. McIlray, Scottsdale, Arizona, USA
I'm not overly bothered by Roman Catholic criticisms of C of E teachings on gender roles and sexuality. Enforced priestly celibacy has been the cause of a litany of problems. Planks in eyes spring to mind.
gwana, London,
The Catholic Church is very threatened by women, that much is obvious. Its intolerance will probably be its undoing. The most rigid branches break in a windstorm.
Amy, Orilia, Canada
At least one church sticks to what it believes in. It's ridiculous to pander for the sake of popularity.
Simon, York, England