Win VIP tickets
Sir, I may not be alone in detecting a case of having your Christmas cake and eating it in David Aaronovitch’s defence of carol-singing atheists (Comment, Dec 20) and accompanying letters. I find it hard to respect anyone who proclaims their atheism with missionary zeal, and then happily joins in singing such lines as “O Come let us adore Him, Christ the Lord”, however agreeable they may find the experience.
If you choose atheism you must surely have the courage and integrity to accept the consequences — religious, cultural, social or otherwise — or risk being labelled a hypocrite. The militant atheists who fought religion under communism here in Eastern Europe inflicted some pretty appalling sufferings. But they did at least have the virtue of being principled — you would not have found them singing carols, even if they thought no one was watching.
Jonathan Luxmoore
Catholic News Service
Warsaw
Sir, When I was growing up in north-west Lancashire in the 1960s, any curmudgeonly elderly person (male or female) was labelled an “old faggot”, just as the word is used in Fairytale of New York by the Pogues and Kirsty MacColl (“Radio 1 reverses decision to censor Pogues hit”, Dec 19). It did not refer to their sexual proclivities. Would the BBC not better serve us, in its capacity as moral guardian, by more closely considering the lyrics of the songs of the rap/gangster genre it plays?
It is in any case ironic that the BBC was willing to keep the word “arse” in the song. The Pogues were originally Pogue Mahone, Gaelic for “kiss my arse” — the abbreviation having been forced upon the band in the 1980s when the BBC got wind of the name’s derivation.
Mark Cairns
Alfreton, Derbyshire
Sir, A lifelong non-believer and I were walking past Vienna’s Stephansdom. He resolutely remained outside in the drizzle while I entered to commune with the architecture and art that is part of my European Judeo-Christian heritage. I’m not sure if he was kept out by the suspicion that God might indeed zap him, or by the obsessive intellectual punctiliousness that Libby Purves advocates (comment, Dec 18).
Not believing in Puff the Magic Dragon never stopped me from singing the song. And I’m sure Mr Dawkins sings the entire first line of the National Anthem as lustily as I did at recent Rugby World Cup matches. My God, it’s liberating.
Mark Boylan
London W14
Sir, So Nick Clegg has never heard of Fairytale of New York by the Pogues and Kirsty MacColl. This ignorance, for one of his age group, is on a par with the High Court judge who asked “Who are the Beatles?”
Stephen Osborne
Winchester
Win a luxury weekend to Newcastle and its neighbour Gateshead, find out more here
Risk, resilience and embracing new technology
Industry sectors news at a glance. Interactive heatmap, video and podcast
Discover the power of collective thinking. Submit a solution and be in with a chance to win a Media Hub Home Entertainment System
The inside track on current trends in the charity, not for profit and social enterprise sectors
Everything the Business Traveller needs to know to make a better trip
Make the most of the summer and enter our fabulous photographic competition, you could win a £5000 holiday
Corsica is an island of beauty and contrast, an ideal holiday destination
Enjoy further reading from Travel to Fashion, Business to Sport, discover more
Shortcuts to help you find sections and articles
The clever way to lease a new car is with Car leasing made simple™
2009
per month on 36-month
Personal Contract Hire (PCH)
2008
42850
Car Insurance
£24,250 - £30,346
MI5
London
£60,000
The Environment Agency
Bristol
Up to £90K
Boots
Midlands
OTE £85k
Credit Protection Association
Nationwide Opportunities
Completely London
Luxury Condo's in Manhattan with NYC views
The best new homes in Wimbledon?
Nationwide
Fabulous Cruise And Cruise & Stay Offers Including Virgin Atlantic Flights Prices Start From Only £699pp!
Last Minute Cruise And Cruise & Stay Offers. Med From £499pp, Caribbean From £699pp!
5 star quality at a 3 star price.
8 fabulous Canadian cities ...you won’t find cheaper
Contact our advertising team for advertising and sponsorship in Times Online, The Times and The Sunday Times, or place your advertisement.
Times Online Services: Dating | Jobs | Property Search | Used Cars | Holidays | Births, Marriages, Deaths | Subscriptions | E-paper
News International associated websites: Globrix Property Search | Property Finder | Milkround
Copyright 2009 Times Newspapers Ltd.
This service is provided on Times Newspapers' standard Terms and Conditions. Please read our Privacy Policy.To inquire about a licence to reproduce material from Times Online, The Times or The Sunday Times, click here.This website is published by a member of the News International Group. News International Limited, 1 Virginia St, London E98 1XY, is the holding company for the News International group and is registered in England No 81701. VAT number GB 243 8054 69.
Mmmmmmm!n! I suspect there will not be much evidence of the Jewish heritage at the Stephendom, unless things have changed since my last visit.
Very good barbecued chicken and buttery spetzel tho' washed down with genuine Budweiser Budweiser at Restaurant Dom where the horse cabbies sup and slurp.
Joe Geoghegan, Gneevebeg, Ireland
re- Dave Madley's - 6% is a lot of people.
Look at how few people vote in most UK elections, including those which devolved Scotland and Wales - another minority vote.
John, Warks,
Perhaps Gauis would like to share with us his experiences of taking his Christian message to downtown Tehran since he wishes to adopt the high ground on moral courage.
I am the good people of Iran would rather have an entertaining debate about whose space pixie was better than have us boring atheists asking them for proof of their assertions.
Peter, London,
Marco
In a country where approx 6% of the people go to church, the church should not be entitled to have anything to do with the state or have any representatives there.
Dave Madley, Poole, Dorset, England
Marco: No, see Matthew 22:21.
Being an atheist in a notionally Christian country requires no great moral courage. When evangelical atheists take their message to downtown Tehran, then they might be worthy of some respect. The cowards never will though.
Gaius Hammond, London, England
I doubt whether being labelled a hypocrite by a catholic would trouble the average atheist one iota. in any case, to him it's just a pretty song. he likes to sing along. he don't know what it means.
jem, london, uk
if it's hypocritical of atheists to sing about God, then isn't it hypocritical of Christians to live in countries with a separation of powers between church and state?
Marco, Kraków, Poland